WEBVTT - CLASSIC: The Race to the Arctic: Who will control the poles?

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<v Speaker 1>Whobody. Twenty nineteen was a different time, and in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of that time, we are returning to you with

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<v Speaker 1>a classic episode, the Race to the Arctic. For a

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<v Speaker 1>long time, even now, technically the Arctic has been one

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<v Speaker 1>of those inaccessible regions of the world map. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>why would you go there kind of place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but there are a lot of countries that have

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<v Speaker 2>territory that head right up into the old Arctic. So

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<v Speaker 2>there are reasons to be up there, right. You got

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<v Speaker 2>to defend your space. You got to make sure nobody

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<v Speaker 2>else is coming up onto your lands and waters even.

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<v Speaker 1>And waters even, and you're underwater lands. Oh right. Because

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<v Speaker 1>when we were looking at this, the writing was already

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<v Speaker 1>on the wall. There was something already in the wind.

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<v Speaker 1>As the ice in the North Pole evaporates, we're looking

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<v Speaker 1>at the possibility of enormous profitable trade routes, billions upon

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<v Speaker 1>billions of dollars of freight transit, but also untold billions

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<v Speaker 1>of dollars of previously inaccessible resources.

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<v Speaker 3>Ooh, it's the raw stuff up there. Watch out, watch out.

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<v Speaker 2>People will do terrible things to get those sweet, sweet resources.

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<v Speaker 1>True story. Yeah, and when you tune into this one, folks,

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<v Speaker 1>please please reach out to us because we want to

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<v Speaker 1>know your thoughts. Who will control the Arctic?

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<v Speaker 4>From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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<v Speaker 4>riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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<v Speaker 4>learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Noel

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<v Speaker 2>Is on an adventure.

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<v Speaker 1>They call me Ben. We are joined with our super

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<v Speaker 1>producer Paul Michig, controlled decand and most importantly, you are you.

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<v Speaker 1>You are here that makes this stuff they don't want

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<v Speaker 1>you to know. On a previous episode, Matt Man, we

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<v Speaker 1>opened this show, you and I asking each other where

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<v Speaker 1>we would travel, if we could travel anywhere in the world. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and we you know, we don't talk about it too

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<v Speaker 1>explicitly on the air here, but we whether for work

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<v Speaker 1>or for other endeavors, we end up traveling like as

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<v Speaker 1>a group and as individuals more often than not. You

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<v Speaker 1>know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, correct, And I cannot remember the verdict or our

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<v Speaker 2>answers to the question of where we would travel. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to change mine now to Germany. I want to

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<v Speaker 2>go back to Germany. I just want to see what

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<v Speaker 2>that place is like.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to see what their whole thing is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have a friend named Holger who lived with

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<v Speaker 2>us for a while who lives out there.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to go visit him.

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<v Speaker 1>That's great. It's always great to visit a country where

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<v Speaker 1>you have a connection with someone who lives there.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, on other previous episodes, Man, we talked

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<v Speaker 2>about the shape of our planet.

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<v Speaker 1>We did? We did? Is that foreshadowy?

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<v Speaker 3>It is?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, just to you know, remind people that yes, this

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<v Speaker 2>is a large, spherical like structured planet, as most of

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<v Speaker 2>the planets are, at least the ones we've observed, and

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<v Speaker 2>that means that our planet has these two things on

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<v Speaker 2>it called poles.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, why would you go to the poles? In that

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<v Speaker 1>conversation that I've had about traveling anywhere on the world,

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere terrestrially, one of the questions I would get is

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<v Speaker 1>why on Earth would you want to go to the

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<v Speaker 1>North Pole? Or why on Earth would you want to

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<v Speaker 1>go to Antarctica. You know, it's a valid question. I

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<v Speaker 1>would say. One of the coolest things about going to

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<v Speaker 1>Antarctica is that so few people throughout human history have

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<v Speaker 1>ever made it there and returned alive.

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<v Speaker 3>There you go that's worth it.

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<v Speaker 1>So, you know, bragging rights neat little stamp on your passport,

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<v Speaker 1>which is very dodgy from a legal perspective.

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<v Speaker 3>Or maybe you just really enjoy the cold.

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<v Speaker 1>Or maybe you're just super into the cold. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>sleeping in your fridge isn't cutting it anymore. It's true, Matt,

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<v Speaker 1>You're absolutely right. Planet Earth is very basic information. Planet

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<v Speaker 1>Earth has two poles, and they are both cold inhospitable

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<v Speaker 1>alien environments. These poles are places where human beings are

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<v Speaker 1>not built to be. To the far far north, we

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<v Speaker 1>have the Arctic surrounded by the Arctic Circle. To the

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<v Speaker 1>far far south, we have the continent of Antarctica. We've

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<v Speaker 1>done several episodes on Antarctica. I was surprised to remember

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<v Speaker 1>we did one. Let's see, what's our most recent one

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<v Speaker 1>we did?

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<v Speaker 3>I couldn't tell you.

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<v Speaker 2>I know we've discussed several times the various attempts to

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<v Speaker 2>get to Antarctica and set up bases of oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>from the World Wars.

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<v Speaker 1>On, Yeah, what happens if there's a murder in Antarctica?

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<v Speaker 1>That was one of our most recent.

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<v Speaker 3>Ones, something yeah, something along that way.

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<v Speaker 1>And then my favorite one to date has been what's

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<v Speaker 1>beneath the Arctic Ice, which is one of the videos

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<v Speaker 1>on our YouTube channel.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a great one talking about this too, the

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<v Speaker 2>strange research that could be going on there, because that's

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<v Speaker 2>really all that happens there.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, or the lethal diseases that may just wake up

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's something almost love craftying about it. But

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<v Speaker 1>for the bulk of human history, very very few people,

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<v Speaker 1>relatively few people have managed to visit these parts of

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<v Speaker 1>the world. Even fewer people have managed to visit these

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<v Speaker 1>parts of the world and return alive to tell the tale.

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<v Speaker 1>And you have to ask yourself, of course, it makes

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<v Speaker 1>sense that few people have managed to visit the Pollwyarth,

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<v Speaker 1>would you let's talk a little bit about the Arctic

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<v Speaker 1>and the Arctic Circle, which is going to be the

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<v Speaker 1>primary focus for today's show. The Arctic is a region

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<v Speaker 1>of the planet. It's north of the Arctic Circle, which

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<v Speaker 1>will define in a moment, and it includes the Arctic Ocean, Greenland,

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<v Speaker 1>Bath and Island, other smaller islands in the north and

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<v Speaker 1>the very very northern areas of Europe, Russia, Alaska, and Canada.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, And really when you're talking about the Arctic,

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about stuff that is around the Arctic Ocean.

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<v Speaker 2>So there are several seas that are up there along

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<v Speaker 2>the Russian coast and several other bodies of water, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's really the Arctic Ocean up there. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there are really five nations that you're talking about if

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about the Arctic Powers or the Arctic countries,

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<v Speaker 2>the controlling powers up there. You've got Russia, the United

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<v Speaker 2>States with Alaska, Norway, Denmark and slash, Greenland and Canada.

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<v Speaker 2>These are these are the people or the powers you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about when you're when you're going to be discussing

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<v Speaker 2>maybe land rights and usage rights of that area.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the that's by the narrowest definition of the

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<v Speaker 1>Arctic as a whole. Yes, just just top down Arctic

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<v Speaker 1>Ocean and the five closest nations around it. Yes, the

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<v Speaker 1>region has also been defined as the area above the

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<v Speaker 1>Arctic Circle. And in Russia this area is referred to

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<v Speaker 1>as something that translates to the High North. And if

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<v Speaker 1>we if we go by that definition, then we add

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<v Speaker 1>some other countries to the mix. Iceland, Sweden and Finland

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<v Speaker 1>also become Arctic Powers, even though they don't have a

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<v Speaker 1>coast on the Arctic Ocean. So these eight nations together

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<v Speaker 1>they form what's called the Arctic Council.

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<v Speaker 2>And they've got a great website you can check out

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<v Speaker 2>by the way they do the Arctic Council. It's an

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<v Speaker 2>arcticdh Council dot org.

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<v Speaker 1>What makes the website great, Matt.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very difficult to read because of the color choices

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<v Speaker 2>that they've made, but it's also it's got a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of cool information in there, and I don't know, just

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<v Speaker 2>check it out if you're interested in exactly what that is.

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<v Speaker 1>And when we talk about when we talk about the polls,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing that makes the Arctic Circle very, very different

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<v Speaker 1>from Antarctica is that this is pretty populated. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>sparsely populated, but pretty populated. There are about four million

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<v Speaker 1>people who live there. Of those four million people, about

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<v Speaker 1>half a Russian and this is still the case despite

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that living in the High North, living in

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<v Speaker 1>the High North of Russia is a rough life and

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<v Speaker 1>the area has been losing population for the several decades.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've mentioned the Arctic Circle. What is that It

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<v Speaker 1>is essentially an imaginary line. Our species has created it.

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<v Speaker 1>We all agree that that's a bully idea and so

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to keep it around. It's located at sixty

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<v Speaker 1>six point six degrees north latitude, and we use that

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<v Speaker 1>latitude as a way to define or demarcate the southernmost

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<v Speaker 1>part of the Arctic. Every part of the land and

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<v Speaker 1>sea within the Arctic Circle is very, very cold, and

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<v Speaker 1>historically speaking, much of it has just been covered with ice.

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<v Speaker 1>In addition to the temperature, just the regular weather sucks too.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it really does.

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<v Speaker 2>If you see a picture of the Arctic Circle, why

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<v Speaker 2>it's called the Arctic Circle because that latitude makes this

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<v Speaker 2>really nice circle there, and the ice is the defining

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<v Speaker 2>factor that Ben is talking about here. If you're looking

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<v Speaker 2>at an image of it from the top down, it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's a rough place. So in the midwinter months in

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<v Speaker 2>this area, the sun never really rises at all, It

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<v Speaker 2>just doesn't. You just don't have sun essentially, in Temperatures

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<v Speaker 2>stay very very low because of that, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>reach massive lows to about negative fifty degrees fahrenheit at

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<v Speaker 2>the higher latitudes in this region because you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>do have varying latitudes there, and then in the summer months,

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<v Speaker 2>like if you go a little bit further south, you

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<v Speaker 2>get twenty four hours of sunlight a day, and that

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<v Speaker 2>has a pretty big effect on that region because it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to melt all the sea. You know, the ice

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<v Speaker 2>that's coming up right that's being formed there from the

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<v Speaker 2>super cold region, and this is one of the main

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<v Speaker 2>reasons that icebergs end up breaking off from this like

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<v Speaker 2>frozen northern area and then floating south. And now this

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<v Speaker 2>right here is one of the big things we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about later when it comes to the economics

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<v Speaker 2>of this region and some of the the reasons powers

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<v Speaker 2>are fighting to control this region because of this ice.

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<v Speaker 2>As it's melting from the north and goes south, you

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<v Speaker 2>can't it's very difficult to get ships through there.

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<v Speaker 1>And these these crushing temperatures. Just to put this in

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<v Speaker 1>perspective for everybody outside of what the United States, mianmar

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<v Speaker 1>and Namibia. Sure, negative fifty degrees fahrenheit is negative forty

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<v Speaker 1>five point five degrees celsius. So I hope that some

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<v Speaker 1>of us listening were like, negative fifty it's cold, but

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<v Speaker 1>what is that. I hope that really impacted you. We've

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<v Speaker 1>brought it over to Celsia.

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<v Speaker 2>Here are freezing temperatures where my hand is around my

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<v Speaker 2>chest and down there near the floor is where negative

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<v Speaker 2>fifty is.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, that's great. You're absolutely right. The icebergs breaking off,

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<v Speaker 1>the rogue ice floating around, I call it rogue, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>really humans are the rogue element here. This stuff makes

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<v Speaker 1>it very difficult and dangerous to move ships through, to

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<v Speaker 1>move vessels across the water, or it has historically. That

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<v Speaker 1>has not stopped people from living in the Arctic Circle.

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<v Speaker 1>This is not new territory. There's not a brand new suburb.

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<v Speaker 1>People have lived there for thousands and thousands of years.

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<v Speaker 1>If we wanted a ballpark, we could say the earliest

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<v Speaker 1>people were around nine thousand years ago. It's an ancient land,

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<v Speaker 1>and while they have lived there, it hasn't been easy

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<v Speaker 1>to do so. It turned out that despite the thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of years of human civilization, admittedly sparse human civilization, but

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<v Speaker 1>human civilization nonetheless, no one actually reached the northernmost point.

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<v Speaker 1>No one reached the North Pole until the beginning of

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<v Speaker 1>the twentieth century, as far as we know. Officially, in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen oh nine, a guy named Robert E. Perry became

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<v Speaker 1>the first documented human being to physically reach the North

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<v Speaker 1>Pole again, this brutal part of the world. He was not,

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<v Speaker 1>by any means the first guy to try it. He

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<v Speaker 1>was just the first to make it that we know of.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right and well.

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<v Speaker 2>And when we say that's what we know is because

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<v Speaker 2>this guy, Robert E. Piery Perry, Robert E. Perry, he

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<v Speaker 2>was well known to us. There were a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>other indigenous peoples that were living around this area far

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<v Speaker 2>before that, at least that we understand. So if you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the four million people that currently exist and

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<v Speaker 2>live there, you're talking about mostly Inuit, Sammy, and you

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<v Speaker 2>know people who live in.

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 1>Russia and navigating the Arctic because of the ice that

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.400
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned, Matt, and because of the temperatures, it's incredibly

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 1>dangerous and potentially incredibly rewarding on a couple of fronts. First,

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 1>the realm of commerce, the ability to transport goods across

0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 1>this area of ocean can present tremendous economic advantage to

0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>any nation or corporation controlling shipping routes.

0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you're also going to have problems navigating this

0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.079
<v Speaker 2>by air this area because of the temperature, sometimes because

0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 2>of other issues that you're dealing with at the northern Pole.

0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 2>So having a giant ship getting through the water with

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.400
<v Speaker 2>all of the freight that it could carry, that would

0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:28.280
<v Speaker 2>be hugely advantageous. The other problem here is the realm

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.600
<v Speaker 2>of military might, because if you could, let's say you're

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Russia and you already have roughly fifty percent of the

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.240
<v Speaker 2>surrounding land mass of the Arctic Circle, if you can

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.640
<v Speaker 2>move forward and fully navigate the entire Arctic Ocean well

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 2>and easily, then it really changes something that we've mentioned

0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 2>before over here called force projection, which is just having

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 2>the ability to have a ship with weapons on it

0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.040
<v Speaker 2>wherever you want it to be at any time.

0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 1>And up until recently, the present of all that ice

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:07.560
<v Speaker 1>made both of these goals thought exercises, you know what

0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, hypothetical scenarios. Yeah, not attainable things. And let's

0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.800
<v Speaker 1>take a brief, a brief side trip all the way

0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 1>down south to Antarctica, just to mention it, because a

0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 1>lot of these things will apply to Antarctic as well.

0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Southernmost continent on Earth. It's the least populous surprise surprise

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>by far. That's because it's also the possessor of several superlatives.

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>It is not only the driest place in the world,

0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 1>it is also the coldest place in the world and sorry,

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Chicago the windiest place in the world. It's not a country.

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.720
<v Speaker 1>It has no government, there is no native population. The

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:50.600
<v Speaker 1>entire continent is set aside for now as a scientific preserve,

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 1>but that hasn't stopped countries from laying territorial claims. Britain, France, Norway, Australia,

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:03.760
<v Speaker 1>New Zealand, Chile and Argentine have all laid claims. The

0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Nazi Party or Germany did as well. During World War Two,

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 1>military activities banned on this continent, and it's also a

0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:17.960
<v Speaker 1>legal to prospect for minerals or oil. Fifty different nations,

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 1>including Russia, China, and the US, have agreed with this

0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Antarctic treaty, but everybody's all about bending the rules, especially

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 1>as it gets easier and easier to find stuff there.

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:31.680
<v Speaker 1>So that's how it stands now. We're going to spend

0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 1>most of our time on the Arctic today. But it's

0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.960
<v Speaker 1>important to note that some of the same concerns that

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.800
<v Speaker 1>apply to the North Pole apply or at least will

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 1>apply to the South Pole. And the big question is

0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 1>what happens when all this changes.

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, we've really been just looking at the background

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of this stuff. But what happens when

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 2>when some of the ice melts, when it gets a

0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.320
<v Speaker 2>little warmer, when some of these things that were just

0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 2>bubble thought bubbles in someone's head in a situation room,

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 2>become an actual actionable plan.

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.080
<v Speaker 3>That's what we're looking at today. Right.

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>We've explored a bit of the history. We've taken a

0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.480
<v Speaker 1>brief look at the present day situation. Yet we are

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 1>living in a time rife with Malcolm Gladwell esque tipping points.

0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:28.160
<v Speaker 1>They're dangling, lumering, capering, swinging wildly on the horizon. Yes, sure,

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:32.360
<v Speaker 1>the climate in these areas is changing, but the economic, geopolitical,

0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.760
<v Speaker 1>and military landscapes are changing as well. And the race

0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.359
<v Speaker 1>began years ago, it was just not on your mainstream

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 1>news networks. It's becoming increasingly apparent that this may well

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 1>be one of the next great global contests, and the

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 1>outcome of this race may well determine the course of

0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.600
<v Speaker 1>human affairs for decades, perhaps centuries to come. In short,

0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.399
<v Speaker 1>who will control the Arctic?

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 2>And we'll get to that right after a word from

0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:02.360
<v Speaker 2>our sponsor.

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Here's where it gets crazy. Everybody wants a piece, that's it.

0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are a lot of powers that are interested,

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 2>and not just the ones who are immediately adjacent to

0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:20.520
<v Speaker 2>the Arctic.

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Circle right, right, So we know that different countries have

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.320
<v Speaker 1>historically laid claim to the Arctic, right, and there have

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.240
<v Speaker 1>been numerous disputes about this, which we can explore. But

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 1>the accelerated trend of changing climate or temperatures in these

0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 1>areas is also accelerating the rate of change in geopolitics

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:46.760
<v Speaker 1>of the Arctic.

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.000
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, if we want to take a quick.

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Look at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administrations twenty eighteen

0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 2>report cards, specifically the Arctic report Card, you can find

0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.439
<v Speaker 2>that at Arctic DOAA dot gov if you want to

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.480
<v Speaker 2>follow along here. But in their highlights, they're talking about

0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.120
<v Speaker 2>surface air temperatures in the Arctic. They've continued to warm

0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.399
<v Speaker 2>at twice the rate relative to the rest of the globe,

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 2>which is troubling. The air temperatures there for the past

0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.359
<v Speaker 2>five years have exceeded all previous records since nineteen hundred,

0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 2>And there's a whole bunch of other stuff in here

0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.639
<v Speaker 2>that you can look at, specifically talking about sea ice.

0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Let's see, sea ice.

0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.200
<v Speaker 2>Remained younger, thinner, and covered less area than in the past.

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 2>The twelve lowest extents of the satellite record have occurred

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 2>in the last twelve years in the Arctic, And there's

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.360
<v Speaker 2>a toime like, if you really want to dig deep

0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.199
<v Speaker 2>into the information, you can find it there on the

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 2>report card. But essentially it's just saying that the ice

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.280
<v Speaker 2>is receding. There's less of it, it's younger ice, it's

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 2>not building up the thick levels that it used to.

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 2>It really is happening, and it's happening now and it

0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:58.440
<v Speaker 2>has been happening.

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:05.280
<v Speaker 1>And this is catastrophic for the creatures, for the wildlife

0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 1>that have adapted over millions and millions of years to

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.440
<v Speaker 1>live in this environment. It's terrible for those. This is

0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.720
<v Speaker 1>one of the worst times in polar bear history to

0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 1>be a polar bear. However, for humans in the short term,

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.639
<v Speaker 1>if we look at the checkers game rather than the

0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:33.040
<v Speaker 1>chess game, this could be a bonanza, a cavalcade of

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>money to be made, assuming that we still practice the

0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 1>economic ideology of money in the near future, which we

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.679
<v Speaker 1>probably will because we're not a super creative species. This development,

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:51.879
<v Speaker 1>should it continue, will unlock massive hydrocarbon and mineral resources

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.040
<v Speaker 1>in the Arctic and in the Continental Shelf. This could also,

0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.960
<v Speaker 1>at the same time make a year round northern sea

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:06.159
<v Speaker 1>route practical via two ways Russia's Northeast Passage or Canada's

0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:10.639
<v Speaker 1>Northwest Passage. And the reason this is important is because

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.320
<v Speaker 1>it could cut transit time to ship from somewhere in

0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.480
<v Speaker 1>East Asia to Europe or North America's east coast by

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 1>thirty percent, which may not sound like a lot, but

0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:23.520
<v Speaker 1>it's huge.

0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:24.560
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, it's huge.

0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Like if you ever get a check and taxes are

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.439
<v Speaker 1>thirty percent of that, you know you'll really feel it.

0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:31.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, And as we're thinking about this, it's not

0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, we mentioned Canada's Northwest Passage and Russia, Russia's

0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>Northeast Passage. It's not just those countries those nations that

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.879
<v Speaker 2>would be using those passages. It's this has wider implications.

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:51.399
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, this has wider implications. It goes down to

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:55.040
<v Speaker 1>the argument of what should be considered international waters and

0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.200
<v Speaker 1>what should be considered sovereign waters.

0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Right well, and then even if it's not international waters,

0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.000
<v Speaker 2>countries and nations working together with trade deals to use

0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.920
<v Speaker 2>those waters, right And it's just there's so many there's

0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:09.680
<v Speaker 2>so many things to think about with it.

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.040
<v Speaker 1>A lot of you know what. Now you mentioned it, Matt,

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 1>A lot of lawyers are gonna make a ton of

0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:19.360
<v Speaker 1>cash off this, too, y. So the thing is that

0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:24.920
<v Speaker 1>this could economically be very good for a ton of

0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 1>nations and a ton of people throughout the world, depending

0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:34.280
<v Speaker 1>on how it's played out. However, without sounding too skeptical

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.679
<v Speaker 1>of our ability to work together, we do have to

0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:42.400
<v Speaker 1>point out that one of the first possibilities on the horizon,

0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.000
<v Speaker 1>let's say all this ice melts, one of the first

0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.160
<v Speaker 1>possibilities on the horizon is going.

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.320
<v Speaker 2>To be war, or at least the threat of war, right,

0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:52.239
<v Speaker 2>the posturing.

0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, let's call it, yeah, posturing, rivalry, brinksmanship, whatever you

0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 1>want to call it. What you know what, why don't

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:01.040
<v Speaker 1>we call it Russia and America too? Oh go electric

0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Arctic boogaloo.

0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that's great.

0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, Well, if you're listening and you're in the

0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.359
<v Speaker 1>un please feel free to use that just credit our show.

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.399
<v Speaker 1>The disappearance of ice in the Arctic immediately changes the

0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.720
<v Speaker 1>status quo for Russia and the United States in the

0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.000
<v Speaker 1>following ways, in ways that are very very good for

0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the Federated States of Russia. Moscow suddenly gets access to

0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:30.119
<v Speaker 1>more than four thousand miles of Arctic coastline, and that

0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:34.920
<v Speaker 1>would fundamentally transform Russia from a continental to a maritime power.

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Russia would have access to all weather bases and immediately

0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:43.199
<v Speaker 1>start constructing them.

0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 3>By the way, Yeah, it would be a no brainer

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:45.679
<v Speaker 3>to do that.

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:48.920
<v Speaker 1>It would be ridiculous not to do it. This also

0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:53.679
<v Speaker 1>creates security risk along Russia's northern border, Alaska and Russia

0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:59.920
<v Speaker 1>being very close together, and previously these concerns just didn't apply.

0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:04.000
<v Speaker 1>They're not applicable because of the area's harsh climate. It's

0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:07.719
<v Speaker 1>just too much of pain to do stuff there. So,

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:12.920
<v Speaker 1>the prospect of the Arctic Ocean emerging as a new

0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:16.840
<v Speaker 1>theater of military rivalry or what did you call it?

0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:19.800
<v Speaker 3>Met naughty boats?

0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Yes, of naughty boat tag. There we go. That's that's

0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:29.480
<v Speaker 1>the way to explain for it, of naughty boat tag.

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 1>This prospect is being taken very very seriously, not by

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 1>just the US, but by NATO, by Moscow, of course,

0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:44.240
<v Speaker 1>and they're trying to figure out how they are going

0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:49.720
<v Speaker 1>to sort this out without entering into what's called a

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 1>hot war.

0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, where stuff is actually fired.

0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:59.600
<v Speaker 1>Right, well, so where stuff is actually fired from from

0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:03.520
<v Speaker 1>from one puppet master to the other puppet master. Yeah,

0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:07.400
<v Speaker 1>so like a proxy war is occurring in Syria.

0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:11.480
<v Speaker 2>That's where the hands go out and manipulate the other things.

0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:14.639
<v Speaker 1>Right, and they fire at each other, exactly, Proxy wars

0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:19.399
<v Speaker 1>in Afghanistan, proxy wars like in Southeast Asia. These things happen,

0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:25.800
<v Speaker 1>but this presents a situation where it could possibly be

0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:31.920
<v Speaker 1>a genuine military conflict the likes of which we haven't

0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:33.080
<v Speaker 1>seen since World War Two.

0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 2>And just if you wanted to have an example of

0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:40.800
<v Speaker 2>how important naval bases are to the Russian Federation Russian

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Federation of States, is how to say it to Russia.

0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:46.960
<v Speaker 2>You just you can look to several years ago in

0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:51.919
<v Speaker 2>Ukraine and Crimea and the handling of some of the

0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:55.560
<v Speaker 2>shipping and naval bases that were so important in that

0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:58.240
<v Speaker 2>region to the country, and the actions that were taken

0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.040
<v Speaker 2>to make sure those were secured. Just if you if

0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 2>you want to take those as examples, you can understand

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:07.440
<v Speaker 2>how important this stuff is, especially if then you multiply

0:26:07.520 --> 0:26:10.080
<v Speaker 2>it by the scale that it would be in the Arctic.

0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, absolutely, that's the next all example in Crimea itself

0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.679
<v Speaker 1>has It was sad to see that drop out of

0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:23.240
<v Speaker 1>the news cycle because the story of Crimea it self

0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 1>is fascinating, and it doesn't it doesn't start, you know,

0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:33.360
<v Speaker 1>just a few years ago when Russia invaded or excuse me, when.

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 3>When patriots in Crimea, guys with.

0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Balaklava's right, Yeah, Anyway, there are people some of us

0:26:42.080 --> 0:26:44.840
<v Speaker 1>listening are saying, all right, guys, that's a little alarmist.

0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:46.400
<v Speaker 3>You're going cold war on us.

0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:48.800
<v Speaker 1>You're going cold war, You're going hot war on us,

0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:51.560
<v Speaker 1>You're going World War three on us, because that's what

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 1>you're essentially implied. Right. The problem is that now we

0:26:56.760 --> 0:27:00.439
<v Speaker 1>are not talking about two nations fighting over a border,

0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:03.359
<v Speaker 1>and we have not been talking about that sort of

0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:09.680
<v Speaker 1>thing in world politics and world militaries for decades. Everybody

0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:13.639
<v Speaker 1>is crewed up now. Every country is in some sort

0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:18.159
<v Speaker 1>of gang to one degree or another. And a war

0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 1>with a European country who's a member of NATO means

0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:26.000
<v Speaker 1>that you're beefing with all of NATO. Yeah, And if

0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:28.000
<v Speaker 1>you are starting to fight with Russia, you're starting to

0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:32.360
<v Speaker 1>fight with all of Russia's buddies as well. And now

0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:37.560
<v Speaker 1>that this previously inaccessible part of the world may be

0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:41.640
<v Speaker 1>up for grabs, everybody wants a peace. We talked about

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.320
<v Speaker 1>the Arctic Council, those five eight nations.

0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:47.840
<v Speaker 2>So that's Canada, the Kingdom of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway,

0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:50.760
<v Speaker 2>the Russian Federation, Sweden, and the US.

0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:55.360
<v Speaker 1>But again, when we say everybody wants a peace, we

0:27:55.480 --> 0:28:02.760
<v Speaker 1>mean picture that Gary Oldman, give everyone everything, right. China, Japan,

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:05.919
<v Speaker 1>and South Korea all also want to be involved in

0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Arctic affairs, and China is the PRC People's Republic of

0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:14.399
<v Speaker 1>China is the biggest player in this game, or at

0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:19.200
<v Speaker 1>least the most visible about it. China recently declared itself

0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:24.400
<v Speaker 1>to be a quote near Arctic state, which is weird. Yeah,

0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:27.280
<v Speaker 1>which is weird because if you look at this scale

0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:32.080
<v Speaker 1>of just you know, I'll be I'll be a jerk

0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:34.040
<v Speaker 1>about it. If you look at the scale of the

0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Solar system, every state is a near arctic state. Okay,

0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 1>it's like what what is what is not a near

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Arctic state? Is is Uganda or the Bahamas or those

0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:49.920
<v Speaker 1>not near Arctic states? Sure? Sure, arguably right, But that's

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:52.920
<v Speaker 1>that's a very relative term, you know what I mean?

0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 1>You could you could be you could be like a

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:59.240
<v Speaker 1>little north or south of the equator and then call

0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:04.760
<v Speaker 1>yourself an near Antarctic State because you're closer slightly to Antarctica.

0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:05.320
<v Speaker 3>There you go.

0:29:05.680 --> 0:29:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I just I think it's I think

0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 1>it's slippery semantics. But they say they're in New Arctic State,

0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:13.840
<v Speaker 1>and in January twenty eighteen, they unveiled their plans for

0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:19.000
<v Speaker 1>a polar silk route, announcing that the country of China

0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:22.680
<v Speaker 1>is an important stakeholder in Arctic affairs. I would agree

0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:26.400
<v Speaker 1>with that because of just the sheer volume of stuff

0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:29.040
<v Speaker 1>shipping to and from that country.

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and that's exactly what they're interested in. They want

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:34.720
<v Speaker 2>to be able to ship everything through there and save

0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:37.560
<v Speaker 2>that thirty percent or however much they would end up

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:41.720
<v Speaker 2>saving shipping things. And since twenty thirteen they've been they've

0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:46.760
<v Speaker 2>had observer status in the Arctic Council because they've kind

0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:50.280
<v Speaker 2>of seen this on the horizon on the both climate

0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 2>horizon as well as the geopolitical horizon. So it's just

0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:57.520
<v Speaker 2>something to keep your eye on for sure.

0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:04.600
<v Speaker 1>Right And they've been building influence in this area for

0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:08.720
<v Speaker 1>as you said, Matt, for some time. But the issue

0:30:08.800 --> 0:30:13.600
<v Speaker 1>here goes into the question of how closely trade and

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:17.840
<v Speaker 1>military action may or may not be related, and.

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:21.000
<v Speaker 2>When we talked about deals like, it's not just those

0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 2>countries with the Northeast and the Northwest passage, it's people

0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 2>making deals with those countries. And to this effect, Beijing

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:32.840
<v Speaker 2>was talking specifically with Canada and Russia to work out

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:35.200
<v Speaker 2>some kind of free trade agreement with both of these

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:38.080
<v Speaker 2>countries with some of the Scandinavian nations that are up

0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:42.960
<v Speaker 2>there to you know, for China essentially to infuse money

0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:45.360
<v Speaker 2>into some of the bigger projects that are happening in

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:50.360
<v Speaker 2>those areas. Specifically, there's one called the Yamal Lng project

0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:53.520
<v Speaker 2>that which has to do with natural gas and oil

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:58.200
<v Speaker 2>capturing through Russia. And there are other projects in the

0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:01.040
<v Speaker 2>US in Alaska that are doing you know, pretty much

0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the same thing.

0:31:03.600 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 3>As well as Canada.

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:08.480
<v Speaker 2>And it's just it's China, like you said, Ben, trying

0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:11.880
<v Speaker 2>to have it seat at the table, to get in

0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:15.360
<v Speaker 2>on the ground floor with these projects as investors, to

0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:18.600
<v Speaker 2>then have a stake in other parts of it.

0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, right, if the legal framework of geopolitics won't work,

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 1>then surely the financial framework of who owes who money

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.520
<v Speaker 1>will will deliver. Right there you go, And let's real

0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:35.960
<v Speaker 1>quick on the timeline here. According to NASA Global Climate

0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:39.040
<v Speaker 1>models predict the Arctic will be ice free during the

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:42.360
<v Speaker 1>summer months by the middle of this century. Wo so

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:45.880
<v Speaker 1>by twenty fifty And that's very much a ballpark that

0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:50.000
<v Speaker 1>could be that that could mean anywhere from twenty forty

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:52.280
<v Speaker 1>to twenty fifty five, you know.

0:31:53.200 --> 0:31:56.440
<v Speaker 2>So it's so weird with timescales because it feels so

0:31:56.600 --> 0:32:00.480
<v Speaker 2>long term, and yet that is fully short term to

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:01.240
<v Speaker 2>twenty fifty.

0:32:01.600 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that is not long at all.

0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Hey man, you'll probably you'll probably be here.

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:08.120
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you should schedu go ahead and book your tickets

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:14.200
<v Speaker 1>now my cruise, your artic cruise. You can take it

0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:20.240
<v Speaker 1>on a Chinese icebreaker. Perhaps the snow Dragon two and

0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 1>the snow Dragon one have already been created and there's

0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:28.840
<v Speaker 1>an expedition scheduled for the first half of twenty nineteen.

0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:33.760
<v Speaker 1>This is also happening in This is happening in a

0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:38.240
<v Speaker 1>zero sum environment. To be absolutely clear, what that means

0:32:38.560 --> 0:32:43.280
<v Speaker 1>is that there there's a finite amount of power, there's

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:48.600
<v Speaker 1>a finite amount of territory, and there's a finite amount

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>of resource to be extracted.

0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:53.640
<v Speaker 3>So why there are a lot of resources that we'll

0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 3>get into.

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Right the annual the economy of this region could exceed

0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:01.000
<v Speaker 1>four hundred and fifty billion dollars US. We're bringing up

0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:05.160
<v Speaker 1>just that point because the government of China has been

0:33:05.400 --> 0:33:10.400
<v Speaker 1>quick to capitalize on what they see as lack of

0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 1>expertise and interest from the US from Uncle Sam from Washington,

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:19.680
<v Speaker 1>d C. And that's not related to in let's not

0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 1>related to any particular administration. These big boy rules. We're

0:33:24.360 --> 0:33:27.600
<v Speaker 1>talking about the way other countries look at each other.

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:32.280
<v Speaker 1>But real politics tells us other countries only care about

0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:36.560
<v Speaker 1>what's happening domestically in a different country if it will

0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.320
<v Speaker 1>help their bottom line or give them an opportunity to

0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:43.719
<v Speaker 1>require more power and influence on the global stage.

0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:46.360
<v Speaker 3>Can I use this right?

0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Can I use this otherwise? Why are you telling me

0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:56.760
<v Speaker 1>we have problems of our own? Says every country? So resources,

0:33:56.880 --> 0:33:59.120
<v Speaker 1>that's why. That's That's ultimately what it comes down to.

0:33:59.240 --> 0:34:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Almost every time I'm on the show, Yeah, almost every time,

0:34:02.280 --> 0:34:03.000
<v Speaker 2>not every time.

0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Almost every time in history.

0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know.

0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 1>It might be dressed up as values or interest or

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:16.880
<v Speaker 1>national security, national security or someone's religion makes you know,

0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:20.560
<v Speaker 1>gets us in a stink or whatever, But really, ultimately

0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:24.839
<v Speaker 1>that's that's all window dressing. It's all a nice sided

0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:30.719
<v Speaker 1>ketchup to the actual fries, which are resources. So yes,

0:34:30.800 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 1>they're tremendous shipping and military force projection advantages to controlling

0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:40.480
<v Speaker 1>the Arctic. But why are those important? Because it boils

0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:43.319
<v Speaker 1>down to what can you get from there and what

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 1>can you move across there? That's it.

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:49.040
<v Speaker 2>So resources, But why are they so important? Let's get

0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:51.080
<v Speaker 2>into that right after a quick word from our sponsor.

0:34:57.120 --> 0:35:00.400
<v Speaker 1>So here's the thing. You nailed it in one word,

0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:08.279
<v Speaker 1>that resources. Every every conflict is about resources. Right, We've

0:35:08.680 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 1>said this before. We don't just mean it in post

0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:16.520
<v Speaker 1>World War two. We don't just mean it in terms

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:23.080
<v Speaker 1>of Russia grabbing crimea or something. We mean throughout human history,

0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:28.360
<v Speaker 1>throughout the span of our civilization, virtually every large scale

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:32.359
<v Speaker 1>conflict has been about resources. Now it'll be dressed up,

0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:36.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, there will be some window dressing, especially in democracies. Right,

0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:39.040
<v Speaker 1>it will be like, oh, it's our values, right, yeah,

0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:40.759
<v Speaker 1>Or what's another one.

0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.879
<v Speaker 2>It presents a national security risk there we go.

0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:47.919
<v Speaker 1>Or you know, if you go a little further back,

0:35:48.800 --> 0:35:51.799
<v Speaker 1>these people's religion is bad to us.

0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:55.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that lumber that's all over there, that has nothing

0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:55.879
<v Speaker 2>to do with it.

0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:59.759
<v Speaker 1>That control of the bay has nothing to do with it.

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 2>The ability to send things down this river because you know,

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:04.279
<v Speaker 2>don't worry about that.

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:05.600
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Catholicism bad, And of course religious and racial discrimination is

0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:17.840
<v Speaker 1>a real thing. It's also an avenue to justify taking

0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>stuff from people.

0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:20.480
<v Speaker 3>It's a lever you can pull.

0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:24.719
<v Speaker 1>It's yeah, it's very much. War is very much a

0:36:24.760 --> 0:36:25.919
<v Speaker 1>stuff oriented thing.

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Are we too cynical or is this? I mean, this

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:30.799
<v Speaker 2>feels so real to me and I've seen it happen

0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:34.600
<v Speaker 2>so many times throughout history. I'm not being too cynical

0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:35.680
<v Speaker 2>in these thoughts, am I?

0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:38.000
<v Speaker 3>Because I really do feel like this is just the truth.

0:36:38.280 --> 0:36:42.520
<v Speaker 1>I am the worst person to ask because I completely

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:45.319
<v Speaker 1>agree with you, Matt. I mean there are okay, so yes,

0:36:45.320 --> 0:36:48.400
<v Speaker 1>it's true, there are tremendous shipping and military force projection

0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:53.360
<v Speaker 1>advantages to having control over all or some of the Arctic,

0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:57.760
<v Speaker 1>especially those shipping routes. But why are they important? Why

0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:02.360
<v Speaker 1>it's not bragging rights. It ultimately boils down to resource extraction.

0:37:02.800 --> 0:37:05.160
<v Speaker 1>What can we get from there? What can we move

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:08.480
<v Speaker 1>across there? In two thousand and eight, the US Geological

0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:12.399
<v Speaker 1>Service estimated that the Arctic alone contains more than one

0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 1>six hundred and sixty nine trillion cubic feet of natural

0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:18.759
<v Speaker 1>gas reserves.

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:22.560
<v Speaker 3>O m GIA. So this amount is massive.

0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:28.440
<v Speaker 2>It's about thirty percent of all of the world's remaining

0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:32.080
<v Speaker 2>supply of natural gas that has not been in some

0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:36.600
<v Speaker 2>way found developed or begun to be extracted. This is

0:37:37.480 --> 0:37:40.920
<v Speaker 2>that number is almost four times the entire United States

0:37:40.960 --> 0:37:42.759
<v Speaker 2>reserves that exists right now.

0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:45.920
<v Speaker 1>And that this number also does not include what are

0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:49.359
<v Speaker 1>called methane hydrates on the seabed, which can also be

0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 1>converted to a very valuable resource. The addition of this stuff,

0:37:55.520 --> 0:37:59.680
<v Speaker 1>if it ever becomes cost effective to extract it, which

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:01.840
<v Speaker 1>is a big deal, which is a huge deal, could

0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:07.480
<v Speaker 1>boost potential reserves exponentially. In addition, there are probably around

0:38:07.560 --> 0:38:12.440
<v Speaker 1>forty four billion barrels of natural gas liquids and ninety

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 1>billion barrels of oil. That's about thirteen percent of the

0:38:17.320 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 1>undeveloped oil reserves on the planet. In one place, the

0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Geological Service estimates that eighty four percent of the Arctic's

0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:31.520
<v Speaker 1>hydrocarbons are offshore. Sixty percent of the Arctic oil is

0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:34.840
<v Speaker 1>in Russian territory, and not just in the territory that

0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the Russian government thinks belongs to it, which is different,

0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:41.800
<v Speaker 1>but in the territory that everybody sort of agrees belongs

0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:46.600
<v Speaker 1>to it. So according to their surveys, the Russian surveys,

0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:51.480
<v Speaker 1>ninety percent more than ninety percent of the hydrocarbon reserves

0:38:51.520 --> 0:38:54.920
<v Speaker 1>are located in the Arctic zone of the Siberian Continental Shelf,

0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:59.279
<v Speaker 1>And without going into the weeds too much, this is

0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:05.520
<v Speaker 1>a commercial powder keg. This could guarantee Russia's seat at

0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:08.720
<v Speaker 1>the table. One of the criticisms that you'll hear about

0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Russia pretty often is that Russia is pretending to be

0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:17.319
<v Speaker 1>a world power or a superpower. It's got a lot

0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:21.839
<v Speaker 1>of domestic problems, as we all do. Again, you know,

0:39:22.280 --> 0:39:25.520
<v Speaker 1>most other world leaders care about that to the point

0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:29.280
<v Speaker 1>that it might present an opportunity for them, but otherwise

0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:32.560
<v Speaker 1>it's like, not my job, not my problem. And so

0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:36.920
<v Speaker 1>the criticism that you'll hear about Russia is that they

0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:40.080
<v Speaker 1>have two things that give them a seat at the table,

0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:47.759
<v Speaker 1>a nuclear arsenal and gas reserves. Okay, hydrocarbon reserves. So

0:39:48.000 --> 0:39:52.680
<v Speaker 1>if they were able to exponentially increase the amount of

0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:57.480
<v Speaker 1>stuff that they control in a hydrocarbon economy, then they

0:39:57.560 --> 0:40:02.680
<v Speaker 1>also they also increase their prominence and importance and influence

0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.799
<v Speaker 1>in world affairs. You know, there were times a few

0:40:05.840 --> 0:40:09.279
<v Speaker 1>years back, not so long ago, in recent history, while

0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:14.520
<v Speaker 1>we were alive, when Russia could literally just turn off

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.279
<v Speaker 1>the gas supply to a large swath of Europe just

0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:21.239
<v Speaker 1>if they wanted to, just you know, I like fun, Like,

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:24.040
<v Speaker 1>what else are you doing on a Friday? That's power,

0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:28.040
<v Speaker 1>That is power is power. It's not clear, however, yet,

0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:33.160
<v Speaker 1>whether these reserves are whether it makes sense to get

0:40:33.160 --> 0:40:33.880
<v Speaker 1>them right now?

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:35.759
<v Speaker 3>Oh yes, of now, well, yeah, that's the whole thing.

0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:40.279
<v Speaker 2>It's building the infrastructure and the having the technology to

0:40:40.320 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 2>be able to extract that stuff from the depths where

0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:46.759
<v Speaker 2>it exists in those cold temperatures and all the all

0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:49.359
<v Speaker 2>the other factors. Even if it begins melting, it's still

0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 2>a tremendous It would be a tremendous achievement to be

0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>able to get that, and it would cost so much money,

0:40:56.960 --> 0:40:59.880
<v Speaker 2>which is one of the biggest problems here. There's this

0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:03.000
<v Speaker 2>thing called the International Energy Agency.

0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:03.879
<v Speaker 3>Or the IEA.

0:41:04.000 --> 0:41:07.400
<v Speaker 2>We love to read those, and they believe that in

0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:11.000
<v Speaker 2>order to make this economically feasible to do to extract this,

0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:14.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, the oil and natural gas here, the average

0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 2>price essentially of oil would have to be around one

0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:22.319
<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty dollars per barrel for the development for

0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:25.080
<v Speaker 2>this to even work, to make to have it make sense,

0:41:25.160 --> 0:41:28.000
<v Speaker 2>you can make money back, so you're not just throwing

0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:31.040
<v Speaker 2>money into the Arctic in order to make some back.

0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, and for perspective, right now, as we're recording it,

0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:41.240
<v Speaker 1>crude oil probably averaged around sixty five bucks a barrel

0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:45.120
<v Speaker 1>or so, yeah, February of this year, so oil would

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:46.040
<v Speaker 1>almost have to double.

0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:50.239
<v Speaker 2>You got to make some calls to the opequ big

0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:51.520
<v Speaker 2>heads and talk to them.

0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:54.160
<v Speaker 1>I think, yeah, they're also cutting production right, Yeah, and

0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:57.000
<v Speaker 1>rush is part of the conversation. Oh man, different show.

0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:04.120
<v Speaker 1>So there's all so the cost of creating all the

0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:06.799
<v Speaker 1>infrastructure you need to get this stuff out right, This

0:42:06.920 --> 0:42:10.440
<v Speaker 1>is no longer Beverly Hillbilly's land. Kudos to anyone I

0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:14.200
<v Speaker 1>got that reference. They will have to build around one

0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:18.240
<v Speaker 1>trillion US dollars worth or sixty nine trillion rubles worth

0:42:18.719 --> 0:42:24.640
<v Speaker 1>of stuff to extract this oil, to process it, to

0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:28.440
<v Speaker 1>make it something that they can sell, and they don't

0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:32.239
<v Speaker 1>have this country, Russia does not have the technology so

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.600
<v Speaker 1>far as we know, to exploit those deep water deposits.

0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Yet additionally, a lot of the stuff they do have

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.480
<v Speaker 1>to extract energy from this part of the world was

0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:47.280
<v Speaker 1>not designed to cope with this part of the world melting.

0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's designed to be in the frozen areas. You

0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:54.240
<v Speaker 2>can see some that thing that we mentioned a little earlier,

0:42:54.400 --> 0:42:58.759
<v Speaker 2>the Jamal LNG project. You can actually see images of

0:42:58.840 --> 0:43:02.160
<v Speaker 2>what some of the some of it looks like. And

0:43:02.200 --> 0:43:06.080
<v Speaker 2>it is just built on essentially ice. I mean, it

0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:09.120
<v Speaker 2>is just built on ice inside ice. And if that

0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:11.960
<v Speaker 2>were all to melt, it would it would quickly change

0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:16.280
<v Speaker 2>how that how that whole system functions, how that facility functions.

0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:19.440
<v Speaker 3>It could create a large issue.

0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, because there's gonna be a liminal space. There's

0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:28.239
<v Speaker 1>gonna be a transition period. Earth does not work on

0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 1>light switches, you know what I mean. What's gonna happen

0:43:32.440 --> 0:43:36.759
<v Speaker 1>is that stuff will stuff will begin to melt, and eventually,

0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 1>when it melts to a to a high enough degree,

0:43:41.719 --> 0:43:45.960
<v Speaker 1>there will be avenues to access this hidden oil, these

0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:51.120
<v Speaker 1>hidden hydrocarbons. But before it reaches that point, it's it'll

0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:54.959
<v Speaker 1>just be muddy and things will be not quite accessible.

0:43:55.600 --> 0:43:59.640
<v Speaker 1>But all the stuff we built before will not work. Yeah,

0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:02.160
<v Speaker 1>so there's going to be this worse before it gets

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:06.880
<v Speaker 1>better scenario, and that's when that's when the series of

0:44:06.960 --> 0:44:10.200
<v Speaker 1>battles will start. These will be happening concurrently. The battles

0:44:10.200 --> 0:44:12.719
<v Speaker 1>already started in the courtroom. That's where a lot of

0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:16.960
<v Speaker 1>international battles start. Primary disagreements here, as you already point out,

0:44:17.000 --> 0:44:20.680
<v Speaker 1>met concern what we think of as international waters and

0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:23.520
<v Speaker 1>what we think of as sovereign waters or territory controlled

0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:27.799
<v Speaker 1>by a single nation or an uncalling now eventually a

0:44:27.880 --> 0:44:32.640
<v Speaker 1>single corporation. So conflicting claims the Arctic date back to

0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:36.359
<v Speaker 1>at least nineteen twenty five, when Canada said that, all right,

0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:40.360
<v Speaker 1>we're going to say our maritime border extends to cover

0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:44.440
<v Speaker 1>everything from sixty degrees west to one hundred and forty

0:44:44.480 --> 0:44:47.400
<v Speaker 1>one degrees west and then northward all the way to

0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:50.320
<v Speaker 1>the North Pole and the North Pole. Remember this nineteen

0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:53.440
<v Speaker 1>twenty five, So the North Pole had just been reached

0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:56.520
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen oh nine and Canada was like, let's get

0:44:56.640 --> 0:45:00.840
<v Speaker 1>on it. So they also claim these very channels and

0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:04.279
<v Speaker 1>straits that constitute what we call the Northwest Passage are

0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:07.920
<v Speaker 1>part of its internal waters, not international. You want to

0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:10.239
<v Speaker 1>travel on this road you have to play with us.

0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:14.160
<v Speaker 1>The US and other countries have argued that this is

0:45:15.200 --> 0:45:18.920
<v Speaker 1>complete malarchy. Yeah, there's an international waterway. You have to

0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:22.080
<v Speaker 1>let us go free and unencumbered, which means we can

0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:26.320
<v Speaker 1>come and go as we please. This is one example.

0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:28.719
<v Speaker 1>There are a ton of other examples. Russias and a

0:45:28.760 --> 0:45:31.120
<v Speaker 1>lot of them because they control a lot of the coastline.

0:45:31.440 --> 0:45:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Now the battle has been moving forward symbolically. In two

0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:39.360
<v Speaker 1>thousand and five the Russian Arctica Expedition, which was the

0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:43.000
<v Speaker 1>first manned descent to the seafloor beneath the North Pole.

0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:44.520
<v Speaker 3>And this is baller, by the way.

0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:48.239
<v Speaker 1>If they planted a Russian flag made of titanium on

0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:51.719
<v Speaker 1>the Arctic floor at the geographical.

0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:53.439
<v Speaker 3>Pole, Wow, that's what's up.

0:45:53.920 --> 0:45:55.360
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was Yeah, I thought it was a

0:45:55.400 --> 0:45:58.000
<v Speaker 1>power move. The US and Canada Denmark thought so too,

0:45:58.040 --> 0:46:00.960
<v Speaker 1>but they didn't think it was cool. No, and the

0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Kremlins they said, what are you doing. You can't just

0:46:04.520 --> 0:46:07.600
<v Speaker 1>say this belongs to you. And the Kremlin said it

0:46:07.680 --> 0:46:12.080
<v Speaker 1>was not asserting sovereignity. And this is where we found

0:46:12.120 --> 0:46:17.759
<v Speaker 1>this excellent caddy quote from Russian Foreign Minister Sergi Lavarov.

0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:22.319
<v Speaker 2>We're not throwing flags around. We just do what other

0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:26.000
<v Speaker 2>discoverers did. The purpose of the expedition is not to

0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:29.640
<v Speaker 2>skates whatever rights of Russia, but to prove that our

0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:33.160
<v Speaker 2>shelf extends to the North Pole. By the way, on

0:46:33.200 --> 0:46:38.960
<v Speaker 2>the Moon, it was the same. Remember when you planted

0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:41.120
<v Speaker 2>that America flag on the Moon.

0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:44.600
<v Speaker 3>It's just because we got here first.

0:46:44.600 --> 0:46:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Come on, like, we sent a submersible down and we

0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:50.400
<v Speaker 2>put a giant, awesome titanium flag down there.

0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:53.600
<v Speaker 1>It's strange, but these symbols are important.

0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:54.640
<v Speaker 3>They are, they really are.

0:46:54.719 --> 0:46:58.120
<v Speaker 1>And that's why in Antarctica you can still get a

0:46:58.160 --> 0:47:02.040
<v Speaker 1>passport stamp from Great Britain or something, or you or

0:47:02.080 --> 0:47:06.120
<v Speaker 1>these countries will operate post offices. So what happens when

0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the weather warms, It brings hotter wars. Historically, the Arctic

0:47:10.320 --> 0:47:14.279
<v Speaker 1>Ocean has not been a significant military theater for the US,

0:47:14.520 --> 0:47:16.839
<v Speaker 1>which means it's not a place where we put our

0:47:17.160 --> 0:47:20.640
<v Speaker 1>weapons of destruction and our weapons of war. At the

0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:23.480
<v Speaker 1>height of the Cold War, US and Soviet ballistic missile

0:47:23.520 --> 0:47:27.400
<v Speaker 1>submarines hid below the polar ice caps. And you know

0:47:27.480 --> 0:47:30.600
<v Speaker 1>played this game of cat and mouse, right.

0:47:30.920 --> 0:47:33.560
<v Speaker 2>You know the it's the you can at least harken

0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:36.640
<v Speaker 2>back to images of Hunter for at October.

0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, right, And it's a good call. And both sides

0:47:40.520 --> 0:47:44.960
<v Speaker 1>did have early warning networks, and they had armies defending them.

0:47:46.440 --> 0:47:50.000
<v Speaker 1>But these early warning networks had while they had anti

0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:53.720
<v Speaker 1>submarine equipment and armament, the main thing they were looking

0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:58.920
<v Speaker 1>out for was a way to know as soon as

0:47:59.000 --> 0:48:02.920
<v Speaker 1>possible if a missile had been launched. Because the biggest

0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:06.000
<v Speaker 1>significance of the Arctic for both sides of the Cold

0:48:06.000 --> 0:48:10.000
<v Speaker 1>War was this. It is it was the shortest shipping

0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:12.000
<v Speaker 1>route for boats, right, if you could get rid of

0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:15.360
<v Speaker 1>the ice bi de Yeah, but it's the shortest flight

0:48:15.440 --> 0:48:20.319
<v Speaker 1>path for an ICBM or intercontinental ballistic missile and other

0:48:20.480 --> 0:48:25.160
<v Speaker 1>nuclear missiles. So if if a missile is fired from

0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Russia to the US, that's how it's gonna get that's

0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:29.720
<v Speaker 1>the shortest way for it to get there.

0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:32.520
<v Speaker 3>Or from Alaska or the Russian Federation.

0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Or from Alaska to the Russians, yeah, or.

0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:37.920
<v Speaker 2>From any submarine that's hanging out in the Arctic ocean.

0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:43.239
<v Speaker 1>So in recent years, the increase in temperature across the

0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:47.759
<v Speaker 1>Arctic has diminished that polar ice cap. As you said,

0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:53.360
<v Speaker 1>bet the northeast passage right now in Russia's Arctic seas

0:48:53.440 --> 0:48:55.880
<v Speaker 1>can can be used for two or three months of

0:48:55.920 --> 0:48:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the year and even longer if you have an icebreaker

0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:04.040
<v Speaker 1>like China does, like Russia does. Canada's Northwest Passage is

0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:07.200
<v Speaker 1>not near as pash it's shallow, it's prone to getting

0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:10.799
<v Speaker 1>clogged by ice, but it too has seen some more

0:49:10.840 --> 0:49:14.839
<v Speaker 1>commercial traffic because there's less and less ice around. And

0:49:14.880 --> 0:49:19.560
<v Speaker 1>now the Arctic Ocean, because of this warming, is emerging

0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:25.080
<v Speaker 1>as the next place where people, well I say people,

0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:28.680
<v Speaker 1>where the Russian government and the US government are going

0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:32.640
<v Speaker 1>to butt heads. It is preposterous that this is not

0:49:33.120 --> 0:49:37.560
<v Speaker 1>a bigger deal right now. Because Russia controls the board.

0:49:37.840 --> 0:49:41.560
<v Speaker 1>That's what makes it different. Russia is way more qualified

0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:45.279
<v Speaker 1>and way more competent for any kind of when in

0:49:45.320 --> 0:49:49.200
<v Speaker 1>regards to any kind of conflict here in this area

0:49:49.200 --> 0:49:49.720
<v Speaker 1>of the world.

0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:52.439
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, if you look at the you just think

0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:55.319
<v Speaker 2>about the naval fleets of the US, and then you

0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:59.719
<v Speaker 2>think about the land area of Alaska, which is the

0:49:59.760 --> 0:50:02.960
<v Speaker 2>only the US controlled territory up there. If you just

0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:05.520
<v Speaker 2>look at a picture of the Arctic Circle and think

0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:08.759
<v Speaker 2>about that alone, then think about just the history of

0:50:09.719 --> 0:50:10.960
<v Speaker 2>operating up there.

0:50:11.200 --> 0:50:12.480
<v Speaker 3>And then all of the naval.

0:50:12.600 --> 0:50:14.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, a lot of the Pacific fleets, the you know,

0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:17.200
<v Speaker 2>the different fleets of the US has. It's just a

0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:19.359
<v Speaker 2>whole different game. And Russia has been doing it for

0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:19.880
<v Speaker 2>a while.

0:50:20.280 --> 0:50:22.920
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, that's a good way to put it. According

0:50:22.920 --> 0:50:27.640
<v Speaker 1>to Andrew Holland, who is CEO of the American Security Project,

0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:31.239
<v Speaker 1>the Arctic is the only theater of operations where the

0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:35.520
<v Speaker 1>US Navy is outclassed by a peer competitor. Russian surface

0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:39.640
<v Speaker 1>warships have demonstrated the ability to carry out complex combined

0:50:39.680 --> 0:50:43.280
<v Speaker 1>operations in the High North, while the American Navy maintains

0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:46.800
<v Speaker 1>a policy that only submarines operate above the Barren Strait.

0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:51.600
<v Speaker 2>There you go, complex combined operations.

0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh Holland, and you listening, no offense? I just like

0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:58.320
<v Speaker 1>that voice. So yeah. Since two thousand and eight, Russia's

0:50:58.440 --> 0:51:02.759
<v Speaker 1>Arctic development has, at least according to the Pentagon assertive

0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:08.799
<v Speaker 1>force posture, with constant military drilling and quote provocative air maneuvering.

0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:15.520
<v Speaker 1>So Russia has four different fleets Baltic, Pacific, Black Sea,

0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:20.000
<v Speaker 1>and Arctic. The Arctic Fleet or Northern Fleet, has eighty ships.

0:51:20.880 --> 0:51:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Thirty five of those are submarines and others are surface

0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:28.800
<v Speaker 1>ships led by a battle cruiser. But over the last

0:51:28.800 --> 0:51:33.080
<v Speaker 1>decade it's been increasingly expanded, it's been improved. Starting in

0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:37.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty twelve, it's regularly patrolled a two thousand mile stretch

0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:41.920
<v Speaker 1>of the Northern Sea. And more importantly, Russia operates a

0:51:41.920 --> 0:51:46.319
<v Speaker 1>fleet of forty ice breakers. That's forty forty more ice

0:51:46.360 --> 0:51:50.040
<v Speaker 1>breakers than the rest of the world icebreaker fleet combined.

0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Sounds familiar to the US when you just think about

0:51:55.239 --> 0:51:59.280
<v Speaker 2>defense spending in that kind of thing, and yeah, exactly,

0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:01.920
<v Speaker 2>But then well, we do have icebreakers.

0:52:02.160 --> 0:52:06.920
<v Speaker 1>We have three. Uncle Sam has three ice breakers, and

0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:10.439
<v Speaker 1>they need a lot of help in like the ice

0:52:10.440 --> 0:52:14.040
<v Speaker 1>breakers themselves. So if a war breaks out, if a

0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:16.880
<v Speaker 1>physical or hot war does break out over disputes in

0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:20.600
<v Speaker 1>the Arctic, it will almost certainly become a global conflict.

0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:24.040
<v Speaker 1>NATO will be involved, The dominoes will start to fall,

0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:27.640
<v Speaker 1>as the US alone would be outclassed, right, and then

0:52:28.080 --> 0:52:30.880
<v Speaker 1>we would see other countries who are aware of this,

0:52:31.000 --> 0:52:36.240
<v Speaker 1>hungry for the opportunity, would also insert themselves in some way,

0:52:36.920 --> 0:52:44.600
<v Speaker 1>because chaos is a chaos is fertile soil for opportunity,

0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:49.160
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. Military planners envision rivalry and

0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:53.440
<v Speaker 1>perhaps conflict between NATO powers, the US and Russia. But

0:52:53.880 --> 0:52:57.200
<v Speaker 1>eventually they say China will get in the game because

0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:02.520
<v Speaker 1>that country is very very set in to resource acquisition

0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:08.040
<v Speaker 1>and can detect minerals from miles and decades away.

0:53:08.440 --> 0:53:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they know where it is, they know it exists,

0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:12.840
<v Speaker 2>and they're going to find a way to be a

0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:13.319
<v Speaker 2>part of it.

0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's the idea, right, And the same sort of

0:53:17.000 --> 0:53:22.480
<v Speaker 1>stuff is happening in Antarctica. If current economic projections hold true,

0:53:22.560 --> 0:53:25.920
<v Speaker 1>there are going to be some very dangerous times ahead,

0:53:26.560 --> 0:53:30.960
<v Speaker 1>especially for the average person. Right. There are going to

0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:35.319
<v Speaker 1>be global busts of economies, bubbles will pop, and if

0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:39.560
<v Speaker 1>that happens, that's going to make different different countries increasingly

0:53:39.719 --> 0:53:44.239
<v Speaker 1>desperate to obtain control and sovereignity over these things. And

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:48.520
<v Speaker 1>that means the economic disaster could accelerate this timeline. Climate

0:53:48.600 --> 0:53:52.480
<v Speaker 1>change is already accelerating, sure, changing temperatures whatever you want

0:53:52.520 --> 0:53:57.239
<v Speaker 1>to call them, are already accelerating it. But the economic

0:53:57.320 --> 0:54:02.680
<v Speaker 1>stuff could be even more powerful on this timeline because

0:54:02.719 --> 0:54:05.040
<v Speaker 1>what was that number, one hundred and twenty dollars a barrel?

0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Is that when it becomes something like that, Okay, so

0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:10.959
<v Speaker 1>what if it just spikes and one day, one day

0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:14.240
<v Speaker 1>it's one hundred and ninety barrel.

0:54:14.800 --> 0:54:17.200
<v Speaker 3>Then everybody's gonna be trying to get it and.

0:54:17.239 --> 0:54:20.240
<v Speaker 1>The drilling starts tomorrow. Yeah, that's what happens.

0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:23.200
<v Speaker 3>You know. Wow. Okay, so that's where we are right

0:54:23.280 --> 0:54:25.719
<v Speaker 3>now with this. You know, one thing I.

0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Was wondering about as we were researching this was Denmark

0:54:29.920 --> 0:54:32.759
<v Speaker 2>and Greenland because if you look at a map and

0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:35.160
<v Speaker 2>you see how large Greenland is and how much ice

0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:40.279
<v Speaker 2>covers that piece of land, and there are resources there,

0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:43.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of resources. If that also melts, it makes

0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:47.520
<v Speaker 2>me wonder if someone eventually one of these superpowers eventually

0:54:47.760 --> 0:54:55.080
<v Speaker 2>invades Denmark's control at least over Greenland something like that,

0:54:55.120 --> 0:54:58.359
<v Speaker 2>because you know, and we only barely touched Antarctica in

0:54:58.400 --> 0:55:01.080
<v Speaker 2>this episode, because we've talked about so many times before,

0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:03.319
<v Speaker 2>but as Ben said right at the end, there, it's

0:55:03.800 --> 0:55:06.120
<v Speaker 2>the same thing. That's a huge continent, and if some

0:55:06.200 --> 0:55:08.440
<v Speaker 2>of that ice is melting, no matter how high the

0:55:08.480 --> 0:55:11.799
<v Speaker 2>water is rising, we're going to be trying to get

0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:15.560
<v Speaker 2>over there and discover things and find more resources because

0:55:15.560 --> 0:55:16.040
<v Speaker 2>they're there.

0:55:16.560 --> 0:55:21.000
<v Speaker 1>We be not just Uncle Sam or not just humans. Yeah,

0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:24.280
<v Speaker 1>we also being you and me, Oh yeah, Oh.

0:55:24.160 --> 0:55:25.560
<v Speaker 2>We're going to be down there trying to get as

0:55:25.640 --> 0:55:28.959
<v Speaker 2>much titanium to make more flags as we possibly can.

0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:34.640
<v Speaker 1>Whether you are a president, a peasant, a prime minister,

0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:38.360
<v Speaker 1>or a pioneer, one thing is for sure. Everyone is

0:55:38.400 --> 0:55:42.440
<v Speaker 1>waiting for the day that the ice melts and doesn't

0:55:42.480 --> 0:55:46.239
<v Speaker 1>come back in winter, which is a scary thing. The

0:55:47.120 --> 0:55:49.239
<v Speaker 1>they and the stuff they don't want you to know

0:55:49.280 --> 0:55:54.400
<v Speaker 1>for today's episode is multi dimensional. I mean, there are

0:55:54.440 --> 0:55:58.200
<v Speaker 1>companies that don't want you to know the ongoing negotiations

0:55:58.200 --> 0:56:02.400
<v Speaker 1>they're having with their own governments. There are military contractors

0:56:02.400 --> 0:56:04.240
<v Speaker 1>who don't want you to know the kind of stuff

0:56:04.360 --> 0:56:09.960
<v Speaker 1>they're building. And there are of course governments who don't

0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:12.840
<v Speaker 1>want you to know what they're planning, especially if you

0:56:12.880 --> 0:56:15.759
<v Speaker 1>work for another government. Yeah, it always reminds me of

0:56:15.800 --> 0:56:19.279
<v Speaker 1>that story or that old proverb. You know, when elephants

0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:23.759
<v Speaker 1>make war, only the grass suffers. The majority of humanity.

0:56:23.840 --> 0:56:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Is the grass here just getting trampled, just getting trampled

0:56:27.800 --> 0:56:31.600
<v Speaker 1>quite possibly, or who knows, maybe maybe our species will

0:56:31.640 --> 0:56:35.960
<v Speaker 1>say what's the best way to what's the best way

0:56:36.000 --> 0:56:39.000
<v Speaker 1>to normalize this and create a situation where there's not

0:56:39.440 --> 0:56:42.600
<v Speaker 1>a global catastrophe and that's that's quite possible. I mean,

0:56:42.960 --> 0:56:49.200
<v Speaker 1>no one really wants a third World war, to want

0:56:49.320 --> 0:56:53.800
<v Speaker 1>managed conflicts and ways to assertively negotiate their way to

0:56:53.840 --> 0:56:56.920
<v Speaker 1>the biggest slice of the pie, whatever the pies ingredients are.

0:56:58.040 --> 0:57:01.000
<v Speaker 1>And sometimes you fight to see what happens.

0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:05.360
<v Speaker 2>And increasingly hydrocarbons in that pie are not as lucrative

0:57:05.520 --> 0:57:06.360
<v Speaker 2>or interesting.

0:57:07.080 --> 0:57:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah at present, you know, in the moment, Yeah, in

0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:13.600
<v Speaker 1>the moment. And that goes into whether or not technology

0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:17.200
<v Speaker 1>is being suppressed, and that goes into whether or not

0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:22.080
<v Speaker 1>we're getting real numbers about the petrol industry in general.

0:57:22.120 --> 0:57:25.200
<v Speaker 1>But those are stories for another day. If we wanted

0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:30.280
<v Speaker 1>to end on a less dystopian scary note, we can't

0:57:30.320 --> 0:57:33.240
<v Speaker 1>tell you that you can travel as a private citizen

0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:38.320
<v Speaker 1>to Antarctica. From an environmental perspective, it's a fascinating place

0:57:38.360 --> 0:57:41.360
<v Speaker 1>to visit, or so we hear. You do get price

0:57:41.440 --> 0:57:44.040
<v Speaker 1>breaks if you travel in a group. Would highly recommend

0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:47.919
<v Speaker 1>that because it's quite expensive and it's something you would

0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:49.880
<v Speaker 1>have to save up for, but.

0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Hey, it's a that's a cool goal if you can achieve.

0:57:52.680 --> 0:57:55.840
<v Speaker 1>It once in a lifetime experience. Yeah, if you don't

0:57:55.880 --> 0:57:58.240
<v Speaker 1>feel like saving up the money, but you feel like

0:57:58.880 --> 0:58:04.120
<v Speaker 1>spending a lot of time there. It is remarkably I

0:58:04.160 --> 0:58:06.680
<v Speaker 1>don't want to say it's too easy, but it's remarkably

0:58:06.760 --> 0:58:09.720
<v Speaker 1>less difficult than I thought. To get hired as a

0:58:10.080 --> 0:58:12.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a cook or a support staff in

0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:13.320
<v Speaker 1>a research station.

0:58:13.680 --> 0:58:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Do it and then write to us like every day,

0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:17.760
<v Speaker 2>make make a diary.

0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Tell us who you think the hidden alien is?

0:58:20.080 --> 0:58:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh, or do you want to start a podcast? Go

0:58:21.960 --> 0:58:24.680
<v Speaker 2>on that journey and then we'll just start a new

0:58:24.720 --> 0:58:25.520
<v Speaker 2>podcast with you.

0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Speaking people going on that journey. One last thing forty

0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:35.520
<v Speaker 1>close today's episode, Flat earthers are launching a trip to Antarctica. Matt,

0:58:35.600 --> 0:58:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Did you see that.

0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they are going to figure out once and for

0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:44.000
<v Speaker 2>all whether or not this Earth is flat, and whether

0:58:44.040 --> 0:58:45.680
<v Speaker 2>or not you can reach the end of the Earth.

0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:49.000
<v Speaker 2>And they're going to go down there to find you know,

0:58:49.120 --> 0:58:52.520
<v Speaker 2>essentially the Game of Thrones wall basically, but if on

0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:55.240
<v Speaker 2>the other side of the wall there was nothing just

0:58:55.560 --> 0:59:00.280
<v Speaker 2>space essentially, right, It's the ice wall supposed to to

0:59:00.320 --> 0:59:04.240
<v Speaker 2>be several thousand feet thick, and it goes one hundred

0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:07.000
<v Speaker 2>and sixty four feet high perhaps, and it's this thing

0:59:07.040 --> 0:59:09.960
<v Speaker 2>that rings the entire planet and there's a group of

0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:12.320
<v Speaker 2>people who are going to be there soon. They're taking

0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:14.520
<v Speaker 2>off soon, allegedly, right.

0:59:14.680 --> 0:59:17.360
<v Speaker 1>The supposed ice wall is a couple thousand feet thick,

0:59:17.680 --> 0:59:20.760
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and sixty four feet high and surrounds the planet.

0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:25.760
<v Speaker 1>This is planned for next year, for twenty twenty. It's

0:59:25.880 --> 0:59:29.760
<v Speaker 1>organized by the Flat Earth International Conference or fei C.

0:59:31.320 --> 0:59:33.840
<v Speaker 2>And just so you know, according to this article from

0:59:33.840 --> 0:59:37.200
<v Speaker 2>the Sun, which is oh excuse me, yes, he's an

0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:40.080
<v Speaker 2>original article posted by the Sun that was in the

0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:44.800
<v Speaker 2>New York Post. YouTube star logan Paul, the guy that

0:59:44.840 --> 0:59:47.800
<v Speaker 2>everybody just loves. He says he wants to find the

0:59:47.840 --> 0:59:49.640
<v Speaker 2>facts and also join them.

0:59:50.160 --> 0:59:52.880
<v Speaker 1>So yeha yehaw.

0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Indeed, maybe our boy is going to be there. Who's

0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.840
<v Speaker 2>our boy, the rapper that we talked about.

1:00:00.120 --> 1:00:01.280
<v Speaker 3>What's his name? Bob?

1:00:01.760 --> 1:00:01.960
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, maybe he'll be there as well. Yes, uh,

1:00:05.240 --> 1:00:07.560
<v Speaker 1>And maybe you will be there if you're listening. If so,

1:00:07.680 --> 1:00:10.840
<v Speaker 1>we'd love to hear about your adventures. We hope that

1:00:10.880 --> 1:00:13.240
<v Speaker 1>you enjoyed this episode, and if you live in the

1:00:13.360 --> 1:00:17.560
<v Speaker 1>northern climes, we'd love to hear more about your experiences.

1:00:18.400 --> 1:00:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Do you feel like this is alarmist? How How quick

1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:25.440
<v Speaker 1>do you feel the ice is or is not melting?

1:00:25.800 --> 1:00:28.560
<v Speaker 1>And how do you see things changing in a world

1:00:28.600 --> 1:00:31.880
<v Speaker 1>without northern ice? Let us know you, and that's our

1:00:32.000 --> 1:00:34.920
<v Speaker 1>classic episode for this evening. We can't wait to hear

1:00:34.960 --> 1:00:36.840
<v Speaker 1>your thoughts. We try to be easy to find online.

1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Find us in the handle conspiracy Stuff, where we exist

1:00:39.240 --> 1:00:42.680
<v Speaker 1>on Facebook X and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok. We're

1:00:42.720 --> 1:00:43.640
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy Stuff.

1:00:43.720 --> 1:00:48.919
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1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:51.520
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1:00:51.600 --> 1:00:53.320
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1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:57.400
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1:00:57.640 --> 1:00:58.400
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1:00:58.560 --> 1:01:00.640
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1:01:00.760 --> 1:01:05.280
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1:01:05.360 --> 1:01:08.240
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