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Speaker 1: Whobody. Twenty nineteen was a different time, and in the

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Speaker 1: middle of that time, we are returning to you with

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Speaker 1: a classic episode, the Race to the Arctic. For a

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Speaker 1: long time, even now, technically the Arctic has been one

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Speaker 1: of those inaccessible regions of the world map. It's a

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Speaker 1: why would you go there kind of place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but there are a lot of countries that have

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Speaker 2: territory that head right up into the old Arctic. So

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Speaker 2: there are reasons to be up there, right. You got

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Speaker 2: to defend your space. You got to make sure nobody

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Speaker 2: else is coming up onto your lands and waters even.

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Speaker 1: And waters even, and you're underwater lands. Oh right. Because

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Speaker 1: when we were looking at this, the writing was already

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Speaker 1: on the wall. There was something already in the wind.

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Speaker 1: As the ice in the North Pole evaporates, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at the possibility of enormous profitable trade routes, billions upon

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars of freight transit, but also untold billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars of previously inaccessible resources.

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Speaker 3: Ooh, it's the raw stuff up there. Watch out, watch out.

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Speaker 2: People will do terrible things to get those sweet, sweet resources.

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Speaker 1: True story. Yeah, and when you tune into this one, folks,

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Speaker 1: please please reach out to us because we want to

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Speaker 1: know your thoughts. Who will control the Arctic?

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Noel

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Speaker 2: Is on an adventure.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Paul Michig, controlled decand and most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here that makes this stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. On a previous episode, Matt Man, we

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Speaker 1: opened this show, you and I asking each other where

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Speaker 1: we would travel, if we could travel anywhere in the world. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and we you know, we don't talk about it too

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Speaker 1: explicitly on the air here, but we whether for work

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Speaker 1: or for other endeavors, we end up traveling like as

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Speaker 1: a group and as individuals more often than not. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yes, correct, And I cannot remember the verdict or our

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Speaker 2: answers to the question of where we would travel. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to change mine now to Germany. I want to

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Speaker 2: go back to Germany. I just want to see what

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Speaker 2: that place is like.

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Speaker 1: You want to see what their whole thing is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a friend named Holger who lived with

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Speaker 2: us for a while who lives out there.

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Speaker 3: I want to go visit him.

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Speaker 1: That's great. It's always great to visit a country where

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Speaker 1: you have a connection with someone who lives there.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And you know, on other previous episodes, Man, we talked

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Speaker 2: about the shape of our planet.

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Speaker 1: We did? We did? Is that foreshadowy?

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Speaker 3: It is?

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Speaker 2: Well, just to you know, remind people that yes, this

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Speaker 2: is a large, spherical like structured planet, as most of

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Speaker 2: the planets are, at least the ones we've observed, and

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Speaker 2: that means that our planet has these two things on

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Speaker 2: it called poles.

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Speaker 1: Right, why would you go to the poles? In that

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Speaker 1: conversation that I've had about traveling anywhere on the world,

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Speaker 1: anywhere terrestrially, one of the questions I would get is

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Speaker 1: why on Earth would you want to go to the

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Speaker 1: North Pole? Or why on Earth would you want to

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Speaker 1: go to Antarctica. You know, it's a valid question. I

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Speaker 1: would say. One of the coolest things about going to

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Speaker 1: Antarctica is that so few people throughout human history have

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Speaker 1: ever made it there and returned alive.

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Speaker 3: There you go that's worth it.

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Speaker 1: So, you know, bragging rights neat little stamp on your passport,

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Speaker 1: which is very dodgy from a legal perspective.

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Speaker 3: Or maybe you just really enjoy the cold.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe you're just super into the cold. You know,

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Speaker 1: sleeping in your fridge isn't cutting it anymore. It's true, Matt,

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. Planet Earth is very basic information. Planet

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Speaker 1: Earth has two poles, and they are both cold inhospitable

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Speaker 1: alien environments. These poles are places where human beings are

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Speaker 1: not built to be. To the far far north, we

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Speaker 1: have the Arctic surrounded by the Arctic Circle. To the

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Speaker 1: far far south, we have the continent of Antarctica. We've

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Speaker 1: done several episodes on Antarctica. I was surprised to remember

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Speaker 1: we did one. Let's see, what's our most recent one

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Speaker 1: we did?

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Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you.

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Speaker 2: I know we've discussed several times the various attempts to

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Speaker 2: get to Antarctica and set up bases of oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: from the World Wars.

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Speaker 1: On, Yeah, what happens if there's a murder in Antarctica?

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Speaker 1: That was one of our most recent.

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Speaker 3: Ones, something yeah, something along that way.

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Speaker 1: And then my favorite one to date has been what's

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Speaker 1: beneath the Arctic Ice, which is one of the videos

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Speaker 1: on our YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: That was a great one talking about this too, the

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Speaker 2: strange research that could be going on there, because that's

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Speaker 2: really all that happens there.

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Speaker 1: Right, or the lethal diseases that may just wake up

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Speaker 1: you know, there's something almost love craftying about it. But

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Speaker 1: for the bulk of human history, very very few people,

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Speaker 1: relatively few people have managed to visit these parts of

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Speaker 1: the world. Even fewer people have managed to visit these

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Speaker 1: parts of the world and return alive to tell the tale.

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Speaker 1: And you have to ask yourself, of course, it makes

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Speaker 1: sense that few people have managed to visit the Pollwyarth,

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Speaker 1: would you let's talk a little bit about the Arctic

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Speaker 1: and the Arctic Circle, which is going to be the

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Speaker 1: primary focus for today's show. The Arctic is a region

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Speaker 1: of the planet. It's north of the Arctic Circle, which

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Speaker 1: will define in a moment, and it includes the Arctic Ocean, Greenland,

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Speaker 1: Bath and Island, other smaller islands in the north and

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Speaker 1: the very very northern areas of Europe, Russia, Alaska, and Canada.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And really when you're talking about the Arctic,

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Speaker 2: you're talking about stuff that is around the Arctic Ocean.

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Speaker 2: So there are several seas that are up there along

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Speaker 2: the Russian coast and several other bodies of water, but

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Speaker 2: it's really the Arctic Ocean up there. And you know,

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Speaker 2: there are really five nations that you're talking about if

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Speaker 2: you're talking about the Arctic Powers or the Arctic countries,

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Speaker 2: the controlling powers up there. You've got Russia, the United

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Speaker 2: States with Alaska, Norway, Denmark and slash, Greenland and Canada.

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Speaker 2: These are these are the people or the powers you're

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Speaker 2: talking about when you're when you're going to be discussing

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Speaker 2: maybe land rights and usage rights of that area.

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Speaker 1: And that's the that's by the narrowest definition of the

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Speaker 1: Arctic as a whole. Yes, just just top down Arctic

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Speaker 1: Ocean and the five closest nations around it. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: region has also been defined as the area above the

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Speaker 1: Arctic Circle. And in Russia this area is referred to

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Speaker 1: as something that translates to the High North. And if

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Speaker 1: we if we go by that definition, then we add

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Speaker 1: some other countries to the mix. Iceland, Sweden and Finland

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Speaker 1: also become Arctic Powers, even though they don't have a

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Speaker 1: coast on the Arctic Ocean. So these eight nations together

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Speaker 1: they form what's called the Arctic Council.

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Speaker 2: And they've got a great website you can check out

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Speaker 2: by the way they do the Arctic Council. It's an

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Speaker 2: arcticdh Council dot org.

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Speaker 1: What makes the website great, Matt.

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to read because of the color choices

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Speaker 2: that they've made, but it's also it's got a lot

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Speaker 2: of cool information in there, and I don't know, just

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Speaker 2: check it out if you're interested in exactly what that is.

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Speaker 1: And when we talk about when we talk about the polls,

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Speaker 1: one thing that makes the Arctic Circle very, very different

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Speaker 1: from Antarctica is that this is pretty populated. I mean

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Speaker 1: sparsely populated, but pretty populated. There are about four million

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Speaker 1: people who live there. Of those four million people, about

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Speaker 1: half a Russian and this is still the case despite

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Speaker 1: the fact that living in the High North, living in

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Speaker 1: the High North of Russia is a rough life and

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Speaker 1: the area has been losing population for the several decades.

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Speaker 1: So we've mentioned the Arctic Circle. What is that It

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Speaker 1: is essentially an imaginary line. Our species has created it.

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Speaker 1: We all agree that that's a bully idea and so

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Speaker 1: we're going to keep it around. It's located at sixty

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Speaker 1: six point six degrees north latitude, and we use that

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Speaker 1: latitude as a way to define or demarcate the southernmost

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Speaker 1: part of the Arctic. Every part of the land and

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Speaker 1: sea within the Arctic Circle is very, very cold, and

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Speaker 1: historically speaking, much of it has just been covered with ice.

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Speaker 1: In addition to the temperature, just the regular weather sucks too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really does.

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Speaker 2: If you see a picture of the Arctic Circle, why

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Speaker 2: it's called the Arctic Circle because that latitude makes this

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Speaker 2: really nice circle there, and the ice is the defining

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Speaker 2: factor that Ben is talking about here. If you're looking

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Speaker 2: at an image of it from the top down, it's

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Speaker 2: it's a rough place. So in the midwinter months in

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Speaker 2: this area, the sun never really rises at all, It

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Speaker 2: just doesn't. You just don't have sun essentially, in Temperatures

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Speaker 2: stay very very low because of that, and then they

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Speaker 2: reach massive lows to about negative fifty degrees fahrenheit at

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Speaker 2: the higher latitudes in this region because you know, you

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Speaker 2: do have varying latitudes there, and then in the summer months,

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Speaker 2: like if you go a little bit further south, you

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Speaker 2: get twenty four hours of sunlight a day, and that

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Speaker 2: has a pretty big effect on that region because it's

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Speaker 2: going to melt all the sea. You know, the ice

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Speaker 2: that's coming up right that's being formed there from the

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Speaker 2: super cold region, and this is one of the main

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Speaker 2: reasons that icebergs end up breaking off from this like

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Speaker 2: frozen northern area and then floating south. And now this

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Speaker 2: right here is one of the big things we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about later when it comes to the economics

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Speaker 2: of this region and some of the the reasons powers

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Speaker 2: are fighting to control this region because of this ice.

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Speaker 2: As it's melting from the north and goes south, you

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Speaker 2: can't it's very difficult to get ships through there.

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Speaker 1: And these these crushing temperatures. Just to put this in

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Speaker 1: perspective for everybody outside of what the United States, mianmar

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Speaker 1: and Namibia. Sure, negative fifty degrees fahrenheit is negative forty

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Speaker 1: five point five degrees celsius. So I hope that some

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Speaker 1: of us listening were like, negative fifty it's cold, but

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Speaker 1: what is that. I hope that really impacted you. We've

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Speaker 1: brought it over to Celsia.

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Speaker 2: Here are freezing temperatures where my hand is around my

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Speaker 2: chest and down there near the floor is where negative

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Speaker 2: fifty is.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's great. You're absolutely right. The icebergs breaking off,

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Speaker 1: the rogue ice floating around, I call it rogue, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: really humans are the rogue element here. This stuff makes

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Speaker 1: it very difficult and dangerous to move ships through, to

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Speaker 1: move vessels across the water, or it has historically. That

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Speaker 1: has not stopped people from living in the Arctic Circle.

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Speaker 1: This is not new territory. There's not a brand new suburb.

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Speaker 1: People have lived there for thousands and thousands of years.

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Speaker 1: If we wanted a ballpark, we could say the earliest

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Speaker 1: people were around nine thousand years ago. It's an ancient land,

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Speaker 1: and while they have lived there, it hasn't been easy

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Speaker 1: to do so. It turned out that despite the thousands

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Speaker 1: of years of human civilization, admittedly sparse human civilization, but

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Speaker 1: human civilization nonetheless, no one actually reached the northernmost point.

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Speaker 1: No one reached the North Pole until the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the twentieth century, as far as we know. Officially, in

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh nine, a guy named Robert E. Perry became

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Speaker 1: the first documented human being to physically reach the North

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Speaker 1: Pole again, this brutal part of the world. He was not,

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Speaker 1: by any means the first guy to try it. He

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Speaker 1: was just the first to make it that we know of.

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Speaker 3: That's right and well.

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Speaker 2: And when we say that's what we know is because

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Speaker 2: this guy, Robert E. Piery Perry, Robert E. Perry, he

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Speaker 2: was well known to us. There were a lot of

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Speaker 2: other indigenous peoples that were living around this area far

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Speaker 2: before that, at least that we understand. So if you're

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Speaker 2: talking about the four million people that currently exist and

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Speaker 2: live there, you're talking about mostly Inuit, Sammy, and you

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Speaker 2: know people who live in.

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Speaker 1: Russia and navigating the Arctic because of the ice that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, Matt, and because of the temperatures, it's incredibly

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Speaker 1: dangerous and potentially incredibly rewarding on a couple of fronts. First,

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Speaker 1: the realm of commerce, the ability to transport goods across

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Speaker 1: this area of ocean can present tremendous economic advantage to

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Speaker 1: any nation or corporation controlling shipping routes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're also going to have problems navigating this

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Speaker 2: by air this area because of the temperature, sometimes because

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Speaker 2: of other issues that you're dealing with at the northern Pole.

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Speaker 2: So having a giant ship getting through the water with

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Speaker 2: all of the freight that it could carry, that would

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Speaker 2: be hugely advantageous. The other problem here is the realm

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Speaker 2: of military might, because if you could, let's say you're

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Speaker 2: Russia and you already have roughly fifty percent of the

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Speaker 2: surrounding land mass of the Arctic Circle, if you can

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Speaker 2: move forward and fully navigate the entire Arctic Ocean well

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Speaker 2: and easily, then it really changes something that we've mentioned

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Speaker 2: before over here called force projection, which is just having

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Speaker 2: the ability to have a ship with weapons on it

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Speaker 2: wherever you want it to be at any time.

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Speaker 1: And up until recently, the present of all that ice

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Speaker 1: made both of these goals thought exercises, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, hypothetical scenarios. Yeah, not attainable things. And let's

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Speaker 1: take a brief, a brief side trip all the way

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Speaker 1: down south to Antarctica, just to mention it, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of these things will apply to Antarctic as well.

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Speaker 1: Southernmost continent on Earth. It's the least populous surprise surprise

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Speaker 1: by far. That's because it's also the possessor of several superlatives.

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Speaker 1: It is not only the driest place in the world,

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Speaker 1: it is also the coldest place in the world and sorry,

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Speaker 1: Chicago the windiest place in the world. It's not a country.

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Speaker 1: It has no government, there is no native population. The

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Speaker 1: entire continent is set aside for now as a scientific preserve,

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Speaker 1: but that hasn't stopped countries from laying territorial claims. Britain, France, Norway, Australia,

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Speaker 1: New Zealand, Chile and Argentine have all laid claims. The

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Speaker 1: Nazi Party or Germany did as well. During World War Two,

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Speaker 1: military activities banned on this continent, and it's also a

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Speaker 1: legal to prospect for minerals or oil. Fifty different nations,

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Speaker 1: including Russia, China, and the US, have agreed with this

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Speaker 1: Antarctic treaty, but everybody's all about bending the rules, especially

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Speaker 1: as it gets easier and easier to find stuff there.

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Speaker 1: So that's how it stands now. We're going to spend

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Speaker 1: most of our time on the Arctic today. But it's

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Speaker 1: important to note that some of the same concerns that

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Speaker 1: apply to the North Pole apply or at least will

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Speaker 1: apply to the South Pole. And the big question is

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Speaker 1: what happens when all this changes.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, we've really been just looking at the background

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Speaker 2: for a lot of this stuff. But what happens when

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Speaker 2: when some of the ice melts, when it gets a

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Speaker 2: little warmer, when some of these things that were just

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Speaker 2: bubble thought bubbles in someone's head in a situation room,

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Speaker 2: become an actual actionable plan.

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Speaker 3: That's what we're looking at today. Right.

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Speaker 1: We've explored a bit of the history. We've taken a

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Speaker 1: brief look at the present day situation. Yet we are

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Speaker 1: living in a time rife with Malcolm Gladwell esque tipping points.

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Speaker 1: They're dangling, lumering, capering, swinging wildly on the horizon. Yes, sure,

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Speaker 1: the climate in these areas is changing, but the economic, geopolitical,

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Speaker 1: and military landscapes are changing as well. And the race

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Speaker 1: began years ago, it was just not on your mainstream

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Speaker 1: news networks. It's becoming increasingly apparent that this may well

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Speaker 1: be one of the next great global contests, and the

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Speaker 1: outcome of this race may well determine the course of

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Speaker 1: human affairs for decades, perhaps centuries to come. In short,

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Speaker 1: who will control the Arctic?

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Speaker 2: And we'll get to that right after a word from

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Speaker 2: our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Everybody wants a piece, that's it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot of powers that are interested,

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Speaker 2: and not just the ones who are immediately adjacent to

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Speaker 2: the Arctic.

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Speaker 1: Circle right, right, So we know that different countries have

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Speaker 1: historically laid claim to the Arctic, right, and there have

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Speaker 1: been numerous disputes about this, which we can explore. But

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Speaker 1: the accelerated trend of changing climate or temperatures in these

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Speaker 1: areas is also accelerating the rate of change in geopolitics

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Speaker 1: of the Arctic.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, if we want to take a quick.

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Speaker 2: Look at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administrations twenty eighteen

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Speaker 2: report cards, specifically the Arctic report Card, you can find

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Speaker 2: that at Arctic DOAA dot gov if you want to

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Speaker 2: follow along here. But in their highlights, they're talking about

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Speaker 2: surface air temperatures in the Arctic. They've continued to warm

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Speaker 2: at twice the rate relative to the rest of the globe,

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Speaker 2: which is troubling. The air temperatures there for the past

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Speaker 2: five years have exceeded all previous records since nineteen hundred,

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Speaker 2: And there's a whole bunch of other stuff in here

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Speaker 2: that you can look at, specifically talking about sea ice.

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Speaker 3: Let's see, sea ice.

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Speaker 2: Remained younger, thinner, and covered less area than in the past.

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Speaker 2: The twelve lowest extents of the satellite record have occurred

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Speaker 2: in the last twelve years in the Arctic, And there's

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Speaker 2: a toime like, if you really want to dig deep

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Speaker 2: into the information, you can find it there on the

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Speaker 2: report card. But essentially it's just saying that the ice

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Speaker 2: is receding. There's less of it, it's younger ice, it's

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Speaker 2: not building up the thick levels that it used to.

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Speaker 2: It really is happening, and it's happening now and it

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Speaker 2: has been happening.

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Speaker 1: And this is catastrophic for the creatures, for the wildlife

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Speaker 1: that have adapted over millions and millions of years to

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Speaker 1: live in this environment. It's terrible for those. This is

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Speaker 1: one of the worst times in polar bear history to

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Speaker 1: be a polar bear. However, for humans in the short term,

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Speaker 1: if we look at the checkers game rather than the

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Speaker 1: chess game, this could be a bonanza, a cavalcade of

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Speaker 1: money to be made, assuming that we still practice the

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Speaker 1: economic ideology of money in the near future, which we

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Speaker 1: probably will because we're not a super creative species. This development,

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Speaker 1: should it continue, will unlock massive hydrocarbon and mineral resources

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Speaker 1: in the Arctic and in the Continental Shelf. This could also,

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Speaker 1: at the same time make a year round northern sea

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Speaker 1: route practical via two ways Russia's Northeast Passage or Canada's

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Speaker 1: Northwest Passage. And the reason this is important is because

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Speaker 1: it could cut transit time to ship from somewhere in

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Speaker 1: East Asia to Europe or North America's east coast by

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Speaker 1: thirty percent, which may not sound like a lot, but

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Speaker 1: it's huge.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's huge.

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Speaker 1: Like if you ever get a check and taxes are

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Speaker 1: thirty percent of that, you know you'll really feel it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, And as we're thinking about this, it's not

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Speaker 2: you know, we mentioned Canada's Northwest Passage and Russia, Russia's

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Speaker 2: Northeast Passage. It's not just those countries those nations that

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Speaker 2: would be using those passages. It's this has wider implications.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, this has wider implications. It goes down to

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Speaker 1: the argument of what should be considered international waters and

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Speaker 1: what should be considered sovereign waters.

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Speaker 2: Right well, and then even if it's not international waters,

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Speaker 2: countries and nations working together with trade deals to use

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Speaker 2: those waters, right And it's just there's so many there's

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Speaker 2: so many things to think about with it.

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Speaker 1: A lot of you know what. Now you mentioned it, Matt,

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Speaker 1: A lot of lawyers are gonna make a ton of

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Speaker 1: cash off this, too, y. So the thing is that

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Speaker 1: this could economically be very good for a ton of

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Speaker 1: nations and a ton of people throughout the world, depending

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Speaker 1: on how it's played out. However, without sounding too skeptical

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Speaker 1: of our ability to work together, we do have to

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Speaker 1: point out that one of the first possibilities on the horizon,

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Speaker 1: let's say all this ice melts, one of the first

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Speaker 1: possibilities on the horizon is going.

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Speaker 2: To be war, or at least the threat of war, right,

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Speaker 2: the posturing.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's call it, yeah, posturing, rivalry, brinksmanship, whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to call it. What you know what, why don't

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Speaker 1: we call it Russia and America too? Oh go electric

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Speaker 1: Arctic boogaloo.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's great.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, if you're listening and you're in the

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Speaker 1: un please feel free to use that just credit our show.

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Speaker 1: The disappearance of ice in the Arctic immediately changes the

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Speaker 1: status quo for Russia and the United States in the

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Speaker 1: following ways, in ways that are very very good for

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Speaker 1: the Federated States of Russia. Moscow suddenly gets access to

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Speaker 1: more than four thousand miles of Arctic coastline, and that

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Speaker 1: would fundamentally transform Russia from a continental to a maritime power.

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Speaker 1: Russia would have access to all weather bases and immediately

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Speaker 1: start constructing them.

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Speaker 3: By the way, Yeah, it would be a no brainer

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Speaker 3: to do that.

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Speaker 1: It would be ridiculous not to do it. This also

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Speaker 1: creates security risk along Russia's northern border, Alaska and Russia

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Speaker 1: being very close together, and previously these concerns just didn't apply.

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Speaker 1: They're not applicable because of the area's harsh climate. It's

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Speaker 1: just too much of pain to do stuff there. So,

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Speaker 1: the prospect of the Arctic Ocean emerging as a new

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Speaker 1: theater of military rivalry or what did you call it?

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Speaker 3: Met naughty boats?

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Speaker 1: Yes, of naughty boat tag. There we go. That's that's

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Speaker 1: the way to explain for it, of naughty boat tag.

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Speaker 1: This prospect is being taken very very seriously, not by

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Speaker 1: just the US, but by NATO, by Moscow, of course,

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Speaker 1: and they're trying to figure out how they are going

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Speaker 1: to sort this out without entering into what's called a

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Speaker 1: hot war.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, where stuff is actually fired.

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Speaker 1: Right, well, so where stuff is actually fired from from

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Speaker 1: from one puppet master to the other puppet master. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so like a proxy war is occurring in Syria.

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Speaker 2: That's where the hands go out and manipulate the other things.

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Speaker 1: Right, and they fire at each other, exactly, Proxy wars

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, proxy wars like in Southeast Asia. These things happen,

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Speaker 1: but this presents a situation where it could possibly be

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Speaker 1: a genuine military conflict the likes of which we haven't

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Speaker 1: seen since World War Two.

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Speaker 2: And just if you wanted to have an example of

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Speaker 2: how important naval bases are to the Russian Federation Russian

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Speaker 2: Federation of States, is how to say it to Russia.

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Speaker 2: You just you can look to several years ago in

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Speaker 2: Ukraine and Crimea and the handling of some of the

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Speaker 2: shipping and naval bases that were so important in that

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Speaker 2: region to the country, and the actions that were taken

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Speaker 2: to make sure those were secured. Just if you if

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Speaker 2: you want to take those as examples, you can understand

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Speaker 2: how important this stuff is, especially if then you multiply

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Speaker 2: it by the scale that it would be in the Arctic.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, that's the next all example in Crimea itself

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Speaker 1: has It was sad to see that drop out of

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Speaker 1: the news cycle because the story of Crimea it self

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Speaker 1: is fascinating, and it doesn't it doesn't start, you know,

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Speaker 1: just a few years ago when Russia invaded or excuse me, when.

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Speaker 3: When patriots in Crimea, guys with.

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Speaker 1: Balaklava's right, Yeah, Anyway, there are people some of us

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Speaker 1: listening are saying, all right, guys, that's a little alarmist.

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Speaker 3: You're going cold war on us.

438
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: You're going cold war, You're going hot war on us,

439
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: You're going World War three on us, because that's what

440
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: you're essentially implied. Right. The problem is that now we

441
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: are not talking about two nations fighting over a border,

442
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: and we have not been talking about that sort of

443
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: thing in world politics and world militaries for decades. Everybody

444
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: is crewed up now. Every country is in some sort

445
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: of gang to one degree or another. And a war

446
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: with a European country who's a member of NATO means

447
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: that you're beefing with all of NATO. Yeah, And if

448
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: you are starting to fight with Russia, you're starting to

449
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: fight with all of Russia's buddies as well. And now

450
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: that this previously inaccessible part of the world may be

451
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: up for grabs, everybody wants a peace. We talked about

452
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: the Arctic Council, those five eight nations.

453
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: So that's Canada, the Kingdom of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway,

454
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: the Russian Federation, Sweden, and the US.

455
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: But again, when we say everybody wants a peace, we

456
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: mean picture that Gary Oldman, give everyone everything, right. China, Japan,

457
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: and South Korea all also want to be involved in

458
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: Arctic affairs, and China is the PRC People's Republic of

459
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: China is the biggest player in this game, or at

460
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: least the most visible about it. China recently declared itself

461
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: to be a quote near Arctic state, which is weird. Yeah,

462
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: which is weird because if you look at this scale

463
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: of just you know, I'll be I'll be a jerk

464
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: about it. If you look at the scale of the

465
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: Solar system, every state is a near arctic state. Okay,

466
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: it's like what what is what is not a near

467
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: Arctic state? Is is Uganda or the Bahamas or those

468
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: not near Arctic states? Sure? Sure, arguably right, But that's

469
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: that's a very relative term, you know what I mean?

470
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: You could you could be you could be like a

471
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: little north or south of the equator and then call

472
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: yourself an near Antarctic State because you're closer slightly to Antarctica.

473
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: There you go.

474
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I think it's I think

475
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: it's slippery semantics. But they say they're in New Arctic State,

476
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: and in January twenty eighteen, they unveiled their plans for

477
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: a polar silk route, announcing that the country of China

478
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: is an important stakeholder in Arctic affairs. I would agree

479
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: with that because of just the sheer volume of stuff

480
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: shipping to and from that country.

481
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's exactly what they're interested in. They want

482
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: to be able to ship everything through there and save

483
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: that thirty percent or however much they would end up

484
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: saving shipping things. And since twenty thirteen they've been they've

485
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: had observer status in the Arctic Council because they've kind

486
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: of seen this on the horizon on the both climate

487
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 2: horizon as well as the geopolitical horizon. So it's just

488
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: something to keep your eye on for sure.

489
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: Right And they've been building influence in this area for

490
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, for some time. But the issue

491
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: here goes into the question of how closely trade and

492
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: military action may or may not be related, and.

493
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: When we talked about deals like, it's not just those

494
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: countries with the Northeast and the Northwest passage, it's people

495
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: making deals with those countries. And to this effect, Beijing

496
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: was talking specifically with Canada and Russia to work out

497
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: some kind of free trade agreement with both of these

498
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: countries with some of the Scandinavian nations that are up

499
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: there to you know, for China essentially to infuse money

500
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: into some of the bigger projects that are happening in

501
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: those areas. Specifically, there's one called the Yamal Lng project

502
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: that which has to do with natural gas and oil

503
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: capturing through Russia. And there are other projects in the

504
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: US in Alaska that are doing you know, pretty much

505
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: the same thing.

506
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 3: As well as Canada.

507
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: And it's just it's China, like you said, Ben, trying

508
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: to have it seat at the table, to get in

509
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: on the ground floor with these projects as investors, to

510
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: then have a stake in other parts of it.

511
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: Right, right, if the legal framework of geopolitics won't work,

512
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: then surely the financial framework of who owes who money

513
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: will will deliver. Right there you go, And let's real

514
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: quick on the timeline here. According to NASA Global Climate

515
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: models predict the Arctic will be ice free during the

516
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: summer months by the middle of this century. Wo so

517
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: by twenty fifty And that's very much a ballpark that

518
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: could be that that could mean anywhere from twenty forty

519
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: to twenty fifty five, you know.

520
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: So it's so weird with timescales because it feels so

521
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: long term, and yet that is fully short term to

522
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: twenty fifty.

523
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: Yes, that is not long at all.

524
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: Hey man, you'll probably you'll probably be here.

525
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: I don't know.

526
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: Maybe you should schedu go ahead and book your tickets

527
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: now my cruise, your artic cruise. You can take it

528
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: on a Chinese icebreaker. Perhaps the snow Dragon two and

529
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: the snow Dragon one have already been created and there's

530
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: an expedition scheduled for the first half of twenty nineteen.

531
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: This is also happening in This is happening in a

532
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: zero sum environment. To be absolutely clear, what that means

533
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: is that there there's a finite amount of power, there's

534
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: a finite amount of territory, and there's a finite amount

535
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: of resource to be extracted.

536
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: So why there are a lot of resources that we'll

537
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: get into.

538
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: Right the annual the economy of this region could exceed

539
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty billion dollars US. We're bringing up

540
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: just that point because the government of China has been

541
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: quick to capitalize on what they see as lack of

542
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: expertise and interest from the US from Uncle Sam from Washington,

543
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: d C. And that's not related to in let's not

544
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: related to any particular administration. These big boy rules. We're

545
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: talking about the way other countries look at each other.

546
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: But real politics tells us other countries only care about

547
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: what's happening domestically in a different country if it will

548
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: help their bottom line or give them an opportunity to

549
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 1: require more power and influence on the global stage.

550
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 3: Can I use this right?

551
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: Can I use this otherwise? Why are you telling me

552
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: we have problems of our own? Says every country? So resources,

553
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: that's why. That's That's ultimately what it comes down to.

554
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: Almost every time I'm on the show, Yeah, almost every time,

555
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: not every time.

556
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: Almost every time in history.

557
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

558
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: It might be dressed up as values or interest or

559
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: national security, national security or someone's religion makes you know,

560
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: gets us in a stink or whatever, But really, ultimately

561
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: that's that's all window dressing. It's all a nice sided

562
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: ketchup to the actual fries, which are resources. So yes,

563
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: they're tremendous shipping and military force projection advantages to controlling

564
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: the Arctic. But why are those important? Because it boils

565
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: down to what can you get from there and what

566
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: can you move across there? That's it.

567
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: So resources, But why are they so important? Let's get

568
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: into that right after a quick word from our sponsor.

569
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. You nailed it in one word,

570
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: that resources. Every every conflict is about resources. Right, We've

571
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: said this before. We don't just mean it in post

572
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: World War two. We don't just mean it in terms

573
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: of Russia grabbing crimea or something. We mean throughout human history,

574
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: throughout the span of our civilization, virtually every large scale

575
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: conflict has been about resources. Now it'll be dressed up,

576
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, there will be some window dressing, especially in democracies. Right,

577
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: it will be like, oh, it's our values, right, yeah,

578
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: Or what's another one.

579
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 2: It presents a national security risk there we go.

580
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: Or you know, if you go a little further back,

581
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: these people's religion is bad to us.

582
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that lumber that's all over there, that has nothing

583
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: to do with it.

584
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: That control of the bay has nothing to do with it.

585
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 2: The ability to send things down this river because you know,

586
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: don't worry about that.

587
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 3: Uh.

588
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: Catholicism bad, And of course religious and racial discrimination is

589
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: a real thing. It's also an avenue to justify taking

590
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: stuff from people.

591
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 3: It's a lever you can pull.

592
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's very much. War is very much a

593
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 1: stuff oriented thing.

594
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: Are we too cynical or is this? I mean, this

595
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 2: feels so real to me and I've seen it happen

596
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: so many times throughout history. I'm not being too cynical

597
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: in these thoughts, am I?

598
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: Because I really do feel like this is just the truth.

599
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: I am the worst person to ask because I completely

600
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: agree with you, Matt. I mean there are okay, so yes,

601
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: it's true, there are tremendous shipping and military force projection

602
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: advantages to having control over all or some of the Arctic,

603
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: especially those shipping routes. But why are they important? Why

604
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: it's not bragging rights. It ultimately boils down to resource extraction.

605
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: What can we get from there? What can we move

606
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: across there? In two thousand and eight, the US Geological

607
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: Service estimated that the Arctic alone contains more than one

608
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: six hundred and sixty nine trillion cubic feet of natural

609
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: gas reserves.

610
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 3: O m GIA. So this amount is massive.

611
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: It's about thirty percent of all of the world's remaining

612
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: supply of natural gas that has not been in some

613
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: way found developed or begun to be extracted. This is

614
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: that number is almost four times the entire United States

615
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: reserves that exists right now.

616
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: And that this number also does not include what are

617
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: called methane hydrates on the seabed, which can also be

618
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: converted to a very valuable resource. The addition of this stuff,

619
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: if it ever becomes cost effective to extract it, which

620
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: is a big deal, which is a huge deal, could

621
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: boost potential reserves exponentially. In addition, there are probably around

622
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: forty four billion barrels of natural gas liquids and ninety

623
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: billion barrels of oil. That's about thirteen percent of the

624
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: undeveloped oil reserves on the planet. In one place, the

625
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: Geological Service estimates that eighty four percent of the Arctic's

626
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: hydrocarbons are offshore. Sixty percent of the Arctic oil is

627
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: in Russian territory, and not just in the territory that

628
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: the Russian government thinks belongs to it, which is different,

629
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: but in the territory that everybody sort of agrees belongs

630
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: to it. So according to their surveys, the Russian surveys,

631
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: ninety percent more than ninety percent of the hydrocarbon reserves

632
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: are located in the Arctic zone of the Siberian Continental Shelf,

633
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: And without going into the weeds too much, this is

634
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: a commercial powder keg. This could guarantee Russia's seat at

635
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: the table. One of the criticisms that you'll hear about

636
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: Russia pretty often is that Russia is pretending to be

637
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: a world power or a superpower. It's got a lot

638
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: of domestic problems, as we all do. Again, you know,

639
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: most other world leaders care about that to the point

640
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: that it might present an opportunity for them, but otherwise

641
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: it's like, not my job, not my problem. And so

642
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: the criticism that you'll hear about Russia is that they

643
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: have two things that give them a seat at the table,

644
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: a nuclear arsenal and gas reserves. Okay, hydrocarbon reserves. So

645
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: if they were able to exponentially increase the amount of

646
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: stuff that they control in a hydrocarbon economy, then they

647
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: also they also increase their prominence and importance and influence

648
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: in world affairs. You know, there were times a few

649
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: years back, not so long ago, in recent history, while

650
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: we were alive, when Russia could literally just turn off

651
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: the gas supply to a large swath of Europe just

652
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: if they wanted to, just you know, I like fun, Like,

653
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: what else are you doing on a Friday? That's power,

654
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: That is power is power. It's not clear, however, yet,

655
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: whether these reserves are whether it makes sense to get

656
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: them right now?

657
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: Oh yes, of now, well, yeah, that's the whole thing.

658
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: It's building the infrastructure and the having the technology to

659
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: be able to extract that stuff from the depths where

660
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: it exists in those cold temperatures and all the all

661
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 2: the other factors. Even if it begins melting, it's still

662
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: a tremendous It would be a tremendous achievement to be

663
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 2: able to get that, and it would cost so much money,

664
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 2: which is one of the biggest problems here. There's this

665
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: thing called the International Energy Agency.

666
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 3: Or the IEA.

667
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 2: We love to read those, and they believe that in

668
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: order to make this economically feasible to do to extract this,

669
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: you know, the oil and natural gas here, the average

670
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: price essentially of oil would have to be around one

671
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty dollars per barrel for the development for

672
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: this to even work, to make to have it make sense,

673
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: you can make money back, so you're not just throwing

674
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: money into the Arctic in order to make some back.

675
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: Right, and for perspective, right now, as we're recording it,

676
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 1: crude oil probably averaged around sixty five bucks a barrel

677
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: or so, yeah, February of this year, so oil would

678
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: almost have to double.

679
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: You got to make some calls to the opequ big

680
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: heads and talk to them.

681
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, they're also cutting production right, Yeah, and

682
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: rush is part of the conversation. Oh man, different show.

683
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: So there's all so the cost of creating all the

684
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: infrastructure you need to get this stuff out right, This

685
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: is no longer Beverly Hillbilly's land. Kudos to anyone I

686
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: got that reference. They will have to build around one

687
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: trillion US dollars worth or sixty nine trillion rubles worth

688
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: of stuff to extract this oil, to process it, to

689
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: make it something that they can sell, and they don't

690
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: have this country, Russia does not have the technology so

691
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: far as we know, to exploit those deep water deposits.

692
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: Yet additionally, a lot of the stuff they do have

693
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: to extract energy from this part of the world was

694
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: not designed to cope with this part of the world melting.

695
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's designed to be in the frozen areas. You

696
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 2: can see some that thing that we mentioned a little earlier,

697
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: the Jamal LNG project. You can actually see images of

698
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: what some of the some of it looks like. And

699
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: it is just built on essentially ice. I mean, it

700
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: is just built on ice inside ice. And if that

701
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: were all to melt, it would it would quickly change

702
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 2: how that how that whole system functions, how that facility functions.

703
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 3: It could create a large issue.

704
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, because there's gonna be a liminal space. There's

705
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: gonna be a transition period. Earth does not work on

706
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: light switches, you know what I mean. What's gonna happen

707
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: is that stuff will stuff will begin to melt, and eventually,

708
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: when it melts to a to a high enough degree,

709
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: there will be avenues to access this hidden oil, these

710
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: hidden hydrocarbons. But before it reaches that point, it's it'll

711
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,959
Speaker 1: just be muddy and things will be not quite accessible.

712
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: But all the stuff we built before will not work. Yeah,

713
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: so there's going to be this worse before it gets

714
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: better scenario, and that's when that's when the series of

715
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: battles will start. These will be happening concurrently. The battles

716
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: already started in the courtroom. That's where a lot of

717
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: international battles start. Primary disagreements here, as you already point out,

718
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: met concern what we think of as international waters and

719
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: what we think of as sovereign waters or territory controlled

720
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: by a single nation or an uncalling now eventually a

721
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: single corporation. So conflicting claims the Arctic date back to

722
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: at least nineteen twenty five, when Canada said that, all right,

723
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: we're going to say our maritime border extends to cover

724
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: everything from sixty degrees west to one hundred and forty

725
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: one degrees west and then northward all the way to

726
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: the North Pole and the North Pole. Remember this nineteen

727
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: twenty five, So the North Pole had just been reached

728
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen oh nine and Canada was like, let's get

729
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: on it. So they also claim these very channels and

730
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: straits that constitute what we call the Northwest Passage are

731
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: part of its internal waters, not international. You want to

732
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: travel on this road you have to play with us.

733
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: The US and other countries have argued that this is

734
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: complete malarchy. Yeah, there's an international waterway. You have to

735
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: let us go free and unencumbered, which means we can

736
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: come and go as we please. This is one example.

737
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: There are a ton of other examples. Russias and a

738
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: lot of them because they control a lot of the coastline.

739
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: Now the battle has been moving forward symbolically. In two

740
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: thousand and five the Russian Arctica Expedition, which was the

741
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: first manned descent to the seafloor beneath the North Pole.

742
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: And this is baller, by the way.

743
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: If they planted a Russian flag made of titanium on

744
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: the Arctic floor at the geographical.

745
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 3: Pole, Wow, that's what's up.

746
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: I thought it was Yeah, I thought it was a

747
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: power move. The US and Canada Denmark thought so too,

748
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: but they didn't think it was cool. No, and the

749
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: Kremlins they said, what are you doing. You can't just

750
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: say this belongs to you. And the Kremlin said it

751
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: was not asserting sovereignity. And this is where we found

752
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: this excellent caddy quote from Russian Foreign Minister Sergi Lavarov.

753
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: We're not throwing flags around. We just do what other

754
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: discoverers did. The purpose of the expedition is not to

755
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: skates whatever rights of Russia, but to prove that our

756
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: shelf extends to the North Pole. By the way, on

757
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: the Moon, it was the same. Remember when you planted

758
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: that America flag on the Moon.

759
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 3: It's just because we got here first.

760
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: Come on, like, we sent a submersible down and we

761
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: put a giant, awesome titanium flag down there.

762
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: It's strange, but these symbols are important.

763
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 3: They are, they really are.

764
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: And that's why in Antarctica you can still get a

765
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: passport stamp from Great Britain or something, or you or

766
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: these countries will operate post offices. So what happens when

767
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: the weather warms, It brings hotter wars. Historically, the Arctic

768
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: Ocean has not been a significant military theater for the US,

769
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: which means it's not a place where we put our

770
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: weapons of destruction and our weapons of war. At the

771
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: height of the Cold War, US and Soviet ballistic missile

772
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: submarines hid below the polar ice caps. And you know

773
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: played this game of cat and mouse, right.

774
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: You know the it's the you can at least harken

775
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: back to images of Hunter for at October.

776
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: Right, right, And it's a good call. And both sides

777
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: did have early warning networks, and they had armies defending them.

778
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: But these early warning networks had while they had anti

779
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: submarine equipment and armament, the main thing they were looking

780
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: out for was a way to know as soon as

781
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: possible if a missile had been launched. Because the biggest

782
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: significance of the Arctic for both sides of the Cold

783
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: War was this. It is it was the shortest shipping

784
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: route for boats, right, if you could get rid of

785
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: the ice bi de Yeah, but it's the shortest flight

786
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: path for an ICBM or intercontinental ballistic missile and other

787
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: nuclear missiles. So if if a missile is fired from

788
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: Russia to the US, that's how it's gonna get that's

789
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: the shortest way for it to get there.

790
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: Or from Alaska or the Russian Federation.

791
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: Or from Alaska to the Russians, yeah, or.

792
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 2: From any submarine that's hanging out in the Arctic ocean.

793
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 3: Right.

794
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: So in recent years, the increase in temperature across the

795
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: Arctic has diminished that polar ice cap. As you said,

796
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: bet the northeast passage right now in Russia's Arctic seas

797
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: can can be used for two or three months of

798
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: the year and even longer if you have an icebreaker

799
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: like China does, like Russia does. Canada's Northwest Passage is

800
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: not near as pash it's shallow, it's prone to getting

801
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: clogged by ice, but it too has seen some more

802
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: commercial traffic because there's less and less ice around. And

803
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: now the Arctic Ocean, because of this warming, is emerging

804
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: as the next place where people, well I say people,

805
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: where the Russian government and the US government are going

806
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: to butt heads. It is preposterous that this is not

807
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: a bigger deal right now. Because Russia controls the board.

808
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: That's what makes it different. Russia is way more qualified

809
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: and way more competent for any kind of when in

810
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: regards to any kind of conflict here in this area

811
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:49,720
Speaker 1: of the world.

812
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,439
Speaker 2: Well yeah, if you look at the you just think

813
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 2: about the naval fleets of the US, and then you

814
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: think about the land area of Alaska, which is the

815
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: only the US controlled territory up there. If you just

816
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 2: look at a picture of the Arctic Circle and think

817
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: about that alone, then think about just the history of

818
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: operating up there.

819
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 3: And then all of the naval.

820
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of the Pacific fleets, the you know,

821
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: the different fleets of the US has. It's just a

822
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 2: whole different game. And Russia has been doing it for

823
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 2: a while.

824
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's a good way to put it. According

825
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: to Andrew Holland, who is CEO of the American Security Project,

826
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: the Arctic is the only theater of operations where the

827
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: US Navy is outclassed by a peer competitor. Russian surface

828
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: warships have demonstrated the ability to carry out complex combined

829
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: operations in the High North, while the American Navy maintains

830
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: a policy that only submarines operate above the Barren Strait.

831
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: There you go, complex combined operations.

832
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: Oh Holland, and you listening, no offense? I just like

833
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: that voice. So yeah. Since two thousand and eight, Russia's

834
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: Arctic development has, at least according to the Pentagon assertive

835
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: force posture, with constant military drilling and quote provocative air maneuvering.

836
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: So Russia has four different fleets Baltic, Pacific, Black Sea,

837
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: and Arctic. The Arctic Fleet or Northern Fleet, has eighty ships.

838
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: Thirty five of those are submarines and others are surface

839
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: ships led by a battle cruiser. But over the last

840
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: decade it's been increasingly expanded, it's been improved. Starting in

841
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, it's regularly patrolled a two thousand mile stretch

842
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: of the Northern Sea. And more importantly, Russia operates a

843
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: fleet of forty ice breakers. That's forty forty more ice

844
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: breakers than the rest of the world icebreaker fleet combined.

845
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 2: Sounds familiar to the US when you just think about

846
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 2: defense spending in that kind of thing, and yeah, exactly,

847
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 2: But then well, we do have icebreakers.

848
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: We have three. Uncle Sam has three ice breakers, and

849
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,439
Speaker 1: they need a lot of help in like the ice

850
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: breakers themselves. So if a war breaks out, if a

851
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: physical or hot war does break out over disputes in

852
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: the Arctic, it will almost certainly become a global conflict.

853
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: NATO will be involved, The dominoes will start to fall,

854
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: as the US alone would be outclassed, right, and then

855
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: we would see other countries who are aware of this,

856
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 1: hungry for the opportunity, would also insert themselves in some way,

857
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: because chaos is a chaos is fertile soil for opportunity,

858
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Military planners envision rivalry and

859
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: perhaps conflict between NATO powers, the US and Russia. But

860
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: eventually they say China will get in the game because

861
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: that country is very very set in to resource acquisition

862
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: and can detect minerals from miles and decades away.

863
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, they know where it is, they know it exists,

864
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 2: and they're going to find a way to be a

865
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 2: part of it.

866
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: Right, that's the idea, right, And the same sort of

867
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: stuff is happening in Antarctica. If current economic projections hold true,

868
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: there are going to be some very dangerous times ahead,

869
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: especially for the average person. Right. There are going to

870
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: be global busts of economies, bubbles will pop, and if

871
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: that happens, that's going to make different different countries increasingly

872
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: desperate to obtain control and sovereignity over these things. And

873
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: that means the economic disaster could accelerate this timeline. Climate

874
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: change is already accelerating, sure, changing temperatures whatever you want

875
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: to call them, are already accelerating it. But the economic

876
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: stuff could be even more powerful on this timeline because

877
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: what was that number, one hundred and twenty dollars a barrel?

878
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: Is that when it becomes something like that, Okay, so

879
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,959
Speaker 1: what if it just spikes and one day, one day

880
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 1: it's one hundred and ninety barrel.

881
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 3: Then everybody's gonna be trying to get it and.

882
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 1: The drilling starts tomorrow. Yeah, that's what happens.

883
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 3: You know. Wow. Okay, so that's where we are right

884
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 3: now with this. You know, one thing I.

885
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 2: Was wondering about as we were researching this was Denmark

886
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 2: and Greenland because if you look at a map and

887
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: you see how large Greenland is and how much ice

888
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 2: covers that piece of land, and there are resources there,

889
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: a lot of resources. If that also melts, it makes

890
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 2: me wonder if someone eventually one of these superpowers eventually

891
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 2: invades Denmark's control at least over Greenland something like that,

892
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 2: because you know, and we only barely touched Antarctica in

893
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 2: this episode, because we've talked about so many times before,

894
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: but as Ben said right at the end, there, it's

895
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: the same thing. That's a huge continent, and if some

896
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: of that ice is melting, no matter how high the

897
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 2: water is rising, we're going to be trying to get

898
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: over there and discover things and find more resources because

899
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 2: they're there.

900
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: We be not just Uncle Sam or not just humans. Yeah,

901
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,280
Speaker 1: we also being you and me, Oh yeah, Oh.

902
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: We're going to be down there trying to get as

903
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,959
Speaker 2: much titanium to make more flags as we possibly can.

904
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: Whether you are a president, a peasant, a prime minister,

905
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: or a pioneer, one thing is for sure. Everyone is

906
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: waiting for the day that the ice melts and doesn't

907
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: come back in winter, which is a scary thing. The

908
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: they and the stuff they don't want you to know

909
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: for today's episode is multi dimensional. I mean, there are

910
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: companies that don't want you to know the ongoing negotiations

911
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: they're having with their own governments. There are military contractors

912
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,240
Speaker 1: who don't want you to know the kind of stuff

913
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: they're building. And there are of course governments who don't

914
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: want you to know what they're planning, especially if you

915
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: work for another government. Yeah, it always reminds me of

916
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: that story or that old proverb. You know, when elephants

917
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: make war, only the grass suffers. The majority of humanity.

918
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: Is the grass here just getting trampled, just getting trampled

919
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: quite possibly, or who knows, maybe maybe our species will

920
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: say what's the best way to what's the best way

921
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: to normalize this and create a situation where there's not

922
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: a global catastrophe and that's that's quite possible. I mean,

923
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: no one really wants a third World war, to want

924
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,800
Speaker 1: managed conflicts and ways to assertively negotiate their way to

925
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: the biggest slice of the pie, whatever the pies ingredients are.

926
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: And sometimes you fight to see what happens.

927
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: And increasingly hydrocarbons in that pie are not as lucrative

928
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 2: or interesting.

929
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah at present, you know, in the moment, Yeah, in

930
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: the moment. And that goes into whether or not technology

931
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: is being suppressed, and that goes into whether or not

932
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: we're getting real numbers about the petrol industry in general.

933
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: But those are stories for another day. If we wanted

934
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: to end on a less dystopian scary note, we can't

935
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: tell you that you can travel as a private citizen

936
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: to Antarctica. From an environmental perspective, it's a fascinating place

937
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: to visit, or so we hear. You do get price

938
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: breaks if you travel in a group. Would highly recommend

939
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,919
Speaker 1: that because it's quite expensive and it's something you would

940
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: have to save up for, but.

941
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 3: Hey, it's a that's a cool goal if you can achieve.

942
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: It once in a lifetime experience. Yeah, if you don't

943
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: feel like saving up the money, but you feel like

944
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time there. It is remarkably I

945
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: don't want to say it's too easy, but it's remarkably

946
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: less difficult than I thought. To get hired as a

947
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: you know, like a cook or a support staff in

948
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: a research station.

949
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: Do it and then write to us like every day,

950
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: make make a diary.

951
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: Tell us who you think the hidden alien is?

952
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: Oh, or do you want to start a podcast? Go

953
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 2: on that journey and then we'll just start a new

954
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: podcast with you.

955
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: Speaking people going on that journey. One last thing forty

956
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: close today's episode, Flat earthers are launching a trip to Antarctica. Matt,

957
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: Did you see that.

958
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 2: Yes, they are going to figure out once and for

959
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: all whether or not this Earth is flat, and whether

960
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 2: or not you can reach the end of the Earth.

961
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: And they're going to go down there to find you know,

962
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 2: essentially the Game of Thrones wall basically, but if on

963
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: the other side of the wall there was nothing just

964
00:58:55,560 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 2: space essentially, right, It's the ice wall supposed to to

965
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: be several thousand feet thick, and it goes one hundred

966
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 2: and sixty four feet high perhaps, and it's this thing

967
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: that rings the entire planet and there's a group of

968
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 2: people who are going to be there soon. They're taking

969
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: off soon, allegedly, right.

970
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: The supposed ice wall is a couple thousand feet thick,

971
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty four feet high and surrounds the planet.

972
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: This is planned for next year, for twenty twenty. It's

973
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: organized by the Flat Earth International Conference or fei C.

974
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 2: And just so you know, according to this article from

975
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: the Sun, which is oh excuse me, yes, he's an

976
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 2: original article posted by the Sun that was in the

977
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: New York Post. YouTube star logan Paul, the guy that

978
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: everybody just loves. He says he wants to find the

979
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 2: facts and also join them.

980
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: So yeha yehaw.

981
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 2: Indeed, maybe our boy is going to be there. Who's

982
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 2: our boy, the rapper that we talked about.

983
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 3: What's his name? Bob?

984
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 4: Oh?

985
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, maybe he'll be there as well. Yes, uh,

986
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: And maybe you will be there if you're listening. If so,

987
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear about your adventures. We hope that

988
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode, and if you live in the

989
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: northern climes, we'd love to hear more about your experiences.

990
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: Do you feel like this is alarmist? How How quick

991
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: do you feel the ice is or is not melting?

992
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: And how do you see things changing in a world

993
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: without northern ice? Let us know you, and that's our

994
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: classic episode for this evening. We can't wait to hear

995
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: your thoughts. We try to be easy to find online.

996
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: Find us in the handle conspiracy Stuff, where we exist

997
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: on Facebook X and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok. We're

998
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff.

999
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:48,919
Speaker 2: Show call our number. It's one eight three three std WYTK.

1000
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: Leave a voicemail and if you have more to say,

1001
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you at our good

1002
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1003
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: dot com.

1004
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

1005
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1006
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.