WEBVTT - Mulan (1998) with Ceda Xiong 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.520 Hello, back to the heads. This is Jamie Loftis, this 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.320 is Caitlyn Durante. So this is an episode that we 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:14.520 recorded shortly before the lockdown began. So we didn't put 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.040 anyone in danger. No, we didn't, just so you know, 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:22.480 it was still allowed. Back then two weeks ago, UM 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:27.560 with the wonderful returning guest Sita Geng about Mulan because 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:32.840 originally Mulan was going to be coming out right, uh 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.319 that obviously it is no longer the case, or if 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.200 it's released, it won't be in theaters because what our 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:45.760 theaters really anymore? Um, But we just wanted to say hello, yes, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.680 and that we hope you're doing well. I hope you're 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.720 feeling well and staying inside if you can, and if 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.319 you do have to be out working, we are with 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:55.920 you and we hope we could be a nice part 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.520 of your day and that we love you all. So 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.760 as to be expected, I'm sure this will come as 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.800 a surprise to no one, but the upcoming live shows 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.040 that we had scheduled, um at least the ones in 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.520 Austin and Boston. The Austin one we had announced and 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.840 sold tickets for sold out. We unfortunately had to cancel 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.880 that and everyone will be refunded. M We are still 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.319 waiting to hear about l a On, so we'll see. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.640 Stay tuned. UM. In the meantime, if you need extra 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.760 Bechtel in your life, our Matreon is there for you 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:35.560 with extra episodes. We know a lot of people have 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.160 been burning through a lot of episodes quickly, UM, and 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:42.760 we have plans in April to do some commentary tracks 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.080 for you to watch while you're at home. Audio commentary 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:51.360 April baby. Uh. In the meantime, please enjoy this episode 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:56.440 and Moulan enjoy. On the dodcast, the questions asked if 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.680 movies have women and are all their discussions boyfriends and 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.520 husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy and best 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:10.240 start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hi, everybody, 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.200 I was like, I was like, where do what? I 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.720 was trying to think of a fun in Oh. I 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.680 don't know. I'm just excited for this episode. Hi everyone, 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.680 Welcome to the Backdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:21.200 my name is Caitlin drown Today, and this is our 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.640 podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. Uh where 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.200 we use the beck Dol test. I've heard of it 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.040 to jump off, have a jumping off point, and then 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.920 we you know, just do it deeper dive, not the 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:38.000 whole podcast common misconception. I love when someone's like, oh, 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.320 I've listened to your podcast, which, first of all, there's 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.160 never a need to lie about that. I've never been 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.639 less hurt like when someone's like, I haven't listened to 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.720 your podcast and makes sense, you know, like why would 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.560 you listen to a podcast to shame our audience? Use 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.200 silly sods. But like when someone's kind of faking it 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.519 and then they're they're like, oh, that's the one where 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.520 you spend an hour and a half figuring out if 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.000 it passes the backtel, I'm like, do you think we 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:07.080 just print out the script? And I like, M, I 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.040 don't know. It looks like that's a male character, so 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.600 is not going to pass on to the next live 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.920 we should do in April Fool's episode, that is just that, 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.480 like us going through the script of the Shawshank Redemption 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.720 and just doing what like people who are lying about 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.200 listening to the show, I think it is. Anyways, this 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.240 is the bet. We use the Bechdel test, which is 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.040 a metric invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.600 back Doel Wallace test that requires that a piece of 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:37.640 media have an exchange between two female identifying characters with 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.840 names that is about something other than a man. Should 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:46.840 be easy enough, especially for this movie. Right, Well, well, 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.720 I don't know topic. It's kind of the no, well, 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.440 it's complicated sometimes that's the thing, not a perfect metric. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.200 But also we just have a lot to talk about today. 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.839 I'm so excited for today. This episode has benny long 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.200 time coming. We were going to do it a while ago, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.640 and then we found out that there was a live 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.320 action reboot of this movie coming out, and then we 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.360 had to postpone doing this episode by like a year, 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.000 which has been a painful way but the way here 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.680 we are. We were talking about Mulan finally finally, Yes, 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.279 the day has come Um and yeah we have we 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.960 there's so much ground to cover. So without much further ado, 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:29.640 let's introduce our guest. Um. She is a writer, a comedian. Um. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.080 She's been a guest of ours previously on the Crazy 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.479 Rich Asians episode, and she's also made a contribution on 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.919 our Gremlins episode, which we were all very grateful for 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.880 and She's amazing. It's Seedi seng Hi. Thank you for 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:47.200 having me back, coming back so excited to talk about Mula, 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.200 which was one of the first jokes I ever wrote. 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.479 We actually about Mulan, really was. I had this bit 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.760 that I was, you know, I recently booked the job. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.679 I got a role in the live action rem a Mulan, 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.599 And people in the audience would clap, because sometimes you 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.080 go to an audience that actually doesn't know you're joking, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.280 so it's very sweet when they do. They're like lapping, 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.560 And then I would say, well, I'm going to be 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.280 playing Mushu because it's always been my dream to play 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:20.599 Eddie Murphy. So yeah, I guess they're they've brought back 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:25.120 Mushu for the live action remake, but not not Eddie. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.520 Eddie Murphy is not voicing it. But I just saw 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.760 an IMDb thing where Mushu, but I don't know if 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.840 Mushoe talks, I don't know. Well, maybe my information is wrong, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.440 but I just today watched uh one of those like 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.200 IMDb dot com originals where they like do a little 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:46.520 they're all all all bangers, but they're like people were 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.920 wondering would Mulan's Animal Friends return for the live action reboot, 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.000 and no one knew for sure, but it seems like 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.360 Mush at least Mush. I don't know about the cricket. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.000 What does he what does he look like? Is it 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.240 like one of those like scary like lion king, like 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.600 photo realistic, Like I mean, he's a real Komodo dragon. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:05.800 You're like, that's not why I come to the movie, 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.640 but it would be so weird based on what I've 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:10.800 seen in the trailers, which seems like a like for 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.320 a Disney movie. It's like a gritty action the first PG. Thirteen, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.279 the yeah of the first because I guess that they're 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.480 they're like they're doing some real warship in there. Huh. 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.280 So again, Mulan is making some like serious like I 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.640 guess it's called bushoo ushoo fantasy kind of moves, so 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.160 lots of wire work that's really like body intensive. It 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.920 should be incredible to see. I'm really excited about it. 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.880 I'm like, I mean, is Mulan the first Disney princess 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.440 who presumably kills people? We don't see her rack up 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:46.360 a body count in the cartoon, but I feel like 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.680 it's implied that she would have killed the main bag guy, right, 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.520 she lit him out somewhe she kills some well also, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:55.760 I mean she crushes a lot of people with that 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.839 avalanche at A lot of people are in the aval 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.440 but they also seen to mostly come back and survive that. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.760 I have a lot of thoughts about how the how 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:07.880 the enemies on this in this war are portrayed, which 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.920 is like super racist, yes, like I mean we have 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.040 so so much because there they're like, oh, like people 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.480 who are on the opposite side of the war evil. 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.560 We're going to draw them darker than the rest of 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:23.120 the cast and their zombies and they have like animal eyes, yeah, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.680 like the dark Like it's the way that it looks 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.480 like the beast in Beauty and like they yeah, it's 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.360 a crazy way to regard like the Humes, which is 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.880 like the stand in for the the invaders of China 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.120 at this time. But it's it's so funny because he's 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.960 got like fanes too, literally from the dead, and you're like, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.000 this is not human And this was the first time 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.720 watching this movie that I love, but like there are 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.480 some things where you're like, wait a second, I don't 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.560 know what this war is about. What if Mulan is 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.240 on the wrong side of the war, like, we don't 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.400 know what if they're fighting over don't don't trying to 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:08.520 like uprise against like a very like totalitarian empire. We 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.680 don't know, they don't and they don't tell us. They're 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.680 just like, well, we love Mulan, so she probably on 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.800 the right side of the work. But you're like, we don't, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.560 we don't. That's actually guarantee war is fucked up? Did 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:26.600 you in this official stadium perhaps glorifies war a bit. Yes, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:31.200 that said, it's also a cartoon. Does that make it better? 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.440 I don't know, right, I don't know. I don't know 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.640 if there's another Disney movie that deals with war, like 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.760 I mean, I guess Lion King in a sense, like 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.839 the skirmishes with Uncle Scar kind of warl that is 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.240 because it's like different, but it's so isolated, such a 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.440 small battle. No, this is like, this is historical. There's 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.439 an actual war that happens. There's people that are divided politically, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.040 and then there's the sort of the duty to the country, 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.079 which is like what Mulan really stand for, right, Like, 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:06.520 there are some like nationalism undertime duty to the I mean, 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.000 which I don't know. I'm like I don't even know 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.560 how to feel about that, but but it ended up 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.560 the military stuff in this You're just like, whoa there, 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.080 it's just very And I was thinking about that because 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.320 there's been a lot of writing about the reboot and 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.680 about their like, well, is this movie like being to 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.880 you know, over the top with like funded by military 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.640 stuff and like nationalism stuff, And it's like that may 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.920 be true in some ways, but it's like most Like, 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.320 I mean, so many popular American movies are funded by 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.240 the military that I feel like it's disingenuous to be 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:48.840 like the entire Transformers is funded by the fucking Marines. 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.000 Like it's so true. We talked about this in Independence 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.680 Day with Lindsay Ellis, But like there's this like such 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.200 a well documented history of like people who have a 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.839 good relationship with the military get tanks to use in 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.120 their movies, and their movies make a billion dollars and 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:09.000 you're just like, I don't military industrial complexes is Oh boy, 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.440 is it not good? Quote me on that, so let 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:21.760 me get the full camouflage military industrial complex. I know 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.040 we went into this being like maybe it's good, but 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.680 I'm here to tell you it's actually very bad. I mean, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.800 the part of the military sequence I found interesting was 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.160 like how whimsical the army training was. That was like, 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.280 that's definitely like a place in a Disney movie where 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.920 that should happen, because in most war movies the training 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.480 is definitely not whimsical. This is just like a giant 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.720 pole which belts around your way. And then also question, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.040 is Leshan like the only male love interest that takes 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.120 off his shirt and a Disney movie, Well, Aladdin is 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.360 pretty shirt like is pretty, but but he's his nipples 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:04.720 are covered. That's true. S his body is very Suddenly 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.320 You're like it's right there, right. And then I went 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.280 back to my like I was like five when this 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.920 movie came out. I was just like, oh wow, like 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.719 just like your weird little like baby brain being like 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:23.120 this is different like this yeah, I I mean I 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:28.720 remembered when that scene happened. I mean, um, well, let's 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.960 dive in officially with we're gonna talk about the military 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.360 industrial complex, but we've hardly begun. Um, ste what's your 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.320 relationship history with this movie? So I was talking to 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.040 Caitlin a little bit earlier, and I kind of missed 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:44.959 the boat on this movie. When I was growing up 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.240 because I got a little too old for Milan when 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.199 it first came out, so I actually didn't watch it 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.120 until I turned like thirty, and so I came to 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.680 its super late wash it when I was thirty so 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.960 moved by it totally cried after like a first viewing 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.040 as an adult, I was like, oh, wow, the you know, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.120 a story about the headstrown only daughter of a Chinese family, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.760 I can't possibly relate to that. It was very It 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.000 was very like I should have known that this was coming, 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.440 and I still was not prepared for how much it 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.080 moved me. Um, and I watched this again just like 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.319 right before the podcast is to refresh my brain and 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:23.240 the details. And it's still a very, very action packed 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.920 story that has a lot to do with how the 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.640 protagonist is self motivated, and I think that is something 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.680 that like we love to see in female characters. And 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.400 she's just so she's so smart and has her own 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.160 morality and she has such conviction and that's really like 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.560 what gets her through all of the movie, really, and 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.160 I love that turn at the end where she has 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.400 to dress as a concubine so she successfully passes as 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.160 a woman. There's a lot of like drag king stuff 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.760 in the beginning, which I really love, and there's like 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.760 kind of drag queen stuff towards me, and I was like, 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.000 this is such kind of a drag eccentric movie. There's 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:05.800 a lot like yeah, I mean the gender performance, like 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.600 the female gender performance in this movie, it's like it's 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.840 kind of fucking incredible, Like it is really yeah, yeah, 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.880 talking more about it, there's well, we will, we definitely will. 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:17.560 I mean, there's so much to talk. I mean, I 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.120 because there are certain elements. I just have never watched 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:24.080 this movie in not uh like I love Mulan lens. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.600 That's the only way I've ever watched this movie is like, 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.200 this is one of my favorite movies ever. This movie 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.600 came out when I was five years old, and I 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.640 don't remember seeing it for the first time, but I 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.920 know that I saw it like five hundred times. We 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:42.200 did a whole Mulan Halloween and my family that, Um, 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.360 I checked the pictures. I'm like, Okay, we were not racist, 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.240 because you have to check when you're a white kid, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:49.959 you have to be like, did my parents do a 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.560 good job. I think that they're a pretty good job. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.600 I'll show you the picture, but but I should be 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.920 the front page of the podcast this week for the record, 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.560 because you gotta be careful. But yeah, like I was, 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.640 I loved it so much. I love just everything about it. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.880 The Stevie one of the most cursed Disney musical collaborations 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:14.200 in history, between Stevie Wonder and ninety eight degrees Credits. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.320 I was like, what is happening? I was ranking. I 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.520 was like, I think it's the second most cursed collab. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.520 I love it, but it's the only more cursed collab 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.160 of the Disney Renaissance is in Sync and Phil Collins. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.360 That's the worst one. True to your heart kind of slaps. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.320 It's good, but you're just like, how did these don 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.280 did these people meet each other? It was that like Tarzan. Yeah, 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.480 I think I've mentioned this before, but in my favorite 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.240 press junket of all time, which is in Sync with 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.480 Phil Collins, and and it's like peak in Sync, it's 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.000 nine in Sync, Like Lance Bass is like, yeah, Phil 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.880 Collins is pretty much the sixth member of in Sync. 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.560 I wonder how Genesis feels about that. College is just 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.520 grimacing or you're just like, this is the greatest thing 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.880 I've ever seen. All I have to say I loved 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.520 Mulan at the time. I feel like it was the 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:16.440 first genuinely empowered Disney princess I had ever seen. It 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.280 was because there is like some nineties girl power elements 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.280 to this, but it really hit for me. Um. My 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.880 cousin was Warrior Mulan. I was Reflection Mulan, and my 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:30.480 brother was Shi. You were super deep. We were. It 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.520 was a whole family like we were just like we're 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:38.080 a Mulan, We're Mulan heads. So I love it. Yeah, 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.440 what's your history with it, um Cita. I'm like you 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.880 where I had aged out of kind of Disney movies 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.960 and I joke about having aged back into them because 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.280 I'm going to see Onward tomorrow. Um. But yeah, I 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:53.640 was twelve in this movie came out, so I was like, 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:58.400 I'm too cool for cartoons. So it just like came 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.120 out at the wrong time for me, I guess, and 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:01.760 I and so I didn't grow up with it, and 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.360 I think I only saw it maybe once or twice, 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:07.640 just sort of in passing, not paying that much attention 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.240 to it in my like kind of more adolescent or 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.560 early adult years. And then I've watched it three times 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.120 now to prep for the episode because I'm like, shit, 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.080 like I hate that I missed this when I was younger, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.720 because like it's so good, like it's I yeah, I 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.560 mean there's there's plenty to talk about, but I love 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.560 so much about it. I love the songs, I love 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.680 the music, and I love there's like these all these 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:36.120 great montages. This is the first viewing that I I 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.440 think because I haven't seen this movie in like six 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.200 or seven years. I think this is the first time 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.360 I've seen it since I have become a beady once 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.040 Wong stand I didn't realize he was. I didn't. I 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:47.760 don't think I knew who he was the last time 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.200 I saw this movie like in high school, and like 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.720 I was like, wait, what, like so much good stuff. 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.760 There's so much and yeah, I mean you were touching 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.240 on just the character of Mulan, just like being so 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.000 smart and rustful and outspoken, and like, yeah, it gives 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.600 us a lot to talk about. It's also I think 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.320 for for girls that weren't like kind of girly girls, 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.399 like it has that rezomie like um the reflection Mulan 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.680 song that's very much about like trying to figure out 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:18.800 who you're supposed to be in this world that tells 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.320 you that you're supposed to be one way, but you 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.040 feel a totally different way, and that kind of plays 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.280 into the gender performance of it. But but that's soon 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.080 also probably, Like I was thinking about Mulan as a 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.280 whole for for young women. I was like, this is 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.600 a very good movie to also watch if you're like 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.080 a female comic amongst a lot of male comics where 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:38.960 you're like or is she's trying to fit into the army? 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.800 I was like, oh yeah, I felt that we're like 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.560 everything is disgusting, but you just have to like go 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.440 along to be like, yeah, this is great and people 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.600 are still like we hate you. Like cool. Yeah. I 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.280 was just talking about how we were getting ready for 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.600 this episode today in a room with um two gay 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.600 men and they were both like reflection and like spoke 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.400 to me so much when I was a kid, of Yeah, 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.680 I mean, because it is such like a general theme 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.560 for people who feel like they don't fit into what 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:12.040 the prescribed norm is, where like it's it's And then 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.359 I did some research of I was like, oh, I 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.119 wonder if this is a common read and it seems 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.800 like there's like a fair amount of writing from queer 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.720 and trans writers who are like Reflection was like it 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.680 I easily see that. There's that line where she says, like, 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.320 when will my reflection show who I am inside? I mean, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.920 And I think we've heard a similar read in The 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:36.119 Little Mermaid where like arials, transformation, Um, yeah, like feeling 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.480 like you're in the wrong skin, and a friend of 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.679 the cast, John Ford, spoke to that a bit, yes, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.840 So I mean, I feel like that's always a cool 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.800 There's plenty of criticism of like huge pop culture Disney movies, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.679 but the fact that like there are those big themes 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.000 that they can speak to that make kids who feel 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.000 out of place feel heard is really cool. And there 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:05.280 are such massive movies too, basically everyone sees them. So 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.840 it's not just like, oh, this is a message that 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:10.919 like a few people see. It's like, this is a 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:16.520 message like across a generation can see that. That does difference. 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.600 That really does. IM one of my closest friends from 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.560 high school. She immigrated from Haiti around the time this 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.760 movie came out, and it was one of the first 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.040 movies she saw in America, and she was like so 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:33.560 impacted by it that she majored in Chinese in college, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.240 she's a fluent and she works in international relationship. Now 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:42.560 she I'm like Mulan, Like, people love Mulan. It changed 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.880 a lot um, all right, So I'll do the recap 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:51.160 and then we'll get into the discussion. We open we're 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:56.439 in ancient China. There's an attack un invasion led by 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.800 the big scary chan you, and the emperor is like, 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.680 this will not stand. We got to recruit people from 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.560 my army to fight these invaders. Then we meet Mulan. 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:14.480 She is prepared, kind of cheer good. She is preparing 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.520 to go to the village matchmaker because her family wants 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.879 her to be matched with a good husband so that 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.399 Mulan can bring honor to the family, because that's how 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.320 a woman in the world of this movie brings honor 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.520 to her family. We meet the mom, we meet her mom, 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.400 and we're like, oh, I wonder if this relationship will 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:35.639 be explored, and then it's like no, and they're like, funny, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:42.080 Grandma Trope. I'm like, okay, it's kind of funny. And 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:46.679 then her meeting with the matchmaker goes disastrously and she 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.080 tells Mulan that you will never bring honor to your family, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.840 and that's when Mulan sings reflection about how you know, 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.600 maybe being a bride is not the part she's supposed 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.600 to play. Then the army recruiters show up, and one 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.080 of them is this guy, Chief Wu, and he's like, hey, 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.480 the Emperor is ordering one man from every family to 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.440 serve in the Imperial Army. And Mulan's father is prepared 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.800 to serve. But Mulan thinks that he should not have 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.480 to fight. I think it's implied that he was already 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.600 um a warrior in a previous and he and he 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:22.840 was injured and he like walks with a cane and 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.199 stuff like that. So she's like, he should not have 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:29.159 to fight, so she decides to take his place. Um. 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.639 She cuts off her hair, she dons her father's armor 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.880 to disguise herself as a man, and then rides off 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.560 into the night. And her family discovers that she has left, 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.760 but they realize that if they reveal what she's done, 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.439 she will be killed. Um, so they can't go to 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:56.560 stop her. Meanwhile, and then Eddie Murphy, Eddie Murphy shuts up. Um. 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.760 There's a lot of high jinks and mishaps here, but 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.800 basically he's like, all right, I'm gonna go watch over 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.639 and help Mulan. I feel like he's just kind of 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.400 warming up for Shrek this whole movie. Like he literally 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.920 is just like maybe I could make a billion dollars 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.560 off of doing this. He's just warming up for Donkey 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:22.320 and never forget Shrek. Never forget Shrek, never forget Okay. So, 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.879 with the help of Mushu and Mulan's lucky cricket, she 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.480 goes off to join the army. And meanwhile, a young 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:33.080 soldier named Shang voiced by Beati Wong and the singing 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.199 voice is Donny Osmond. By the way, I know the 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:41.600 masked singer himself. He came in second place the first season. 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.919