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Speaker 1: Hello, back to the heads. This is Jamie Loftis, this

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Speaker 1: is Caitlyn Durante. So this is an episode that we

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Speaker 1: recorded shortly before the lockdown began. So we didn't put

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Speaker 1: anyone in danger. No, we didn't, just so you know,

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Speaker 1: it was still allowed. Back then two weeks ago, UM

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Speaker 1: with the wonderful returning guest Sita Geng about Mulan because

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Speaker 1: originally Mulan was going to be coming out right, uh

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Speaker 1: that obviously it is no longer the case, or if

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Speaker 1: it's released, it won't be in theaters because what our

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Speaker 1: theaters really anymore? Um, But we just wanted to say hello, yes,

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Speaker 1: and that we hope you're doing well. I hope you're

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Speaker 1: feeling well and staying inside if you can, and if

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Speaker 1: you do have to be out working, we are with

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Speaker 1: you and we hope we could be a nice part

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Speaker 1: of your day and that we love you all. So

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Speaker 1: as to be expected, I'm sure this will come as

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Speaker 1: a surprise to no one, but the upcoming live shows

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Speaker 1: that we had scheduled, um at least the ones in

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Speaker 1: Austin and Boston. The Austin one we had announced and

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Speaker 1: sold tickets for sold out. We unfortunately had to cancel

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Speaker 1: that and everyone will be refunded. M We are still

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Speaker 1: waiting to hear about l a On, so we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned. UM. In the meantime, if you need extra

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Speaker 1: Bechtel in your life, our Matreon is there for you

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Speaker 1: with extra episodes. We know a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: been burning through a lot of episodes quickly, UM, and

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Speaker 1: we have plans in April to do some commentary tracks

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Speaker 1: for you to watch while you're at home. Audio commentary

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Speaker 1: April baby. Uh. In the meantime, please enjoy this episode

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Speaker 1: and Moulan enjoy. On the dodcast, the questions asked if

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Speaker 1: movies have women and are all their discussions boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hi, everybody,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, where do what? I

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Speaker 1: was trying to think of a fun in Oh. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just excited for this episode. Hi everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Backdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin drown Today, and this is our

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Speaker 1: podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. Uh where

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Speaker 1: we use the beck Dol test. I've heard of it

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Speaker 1: to jump off, have a jumping off point, and then

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Speaker 1: we you know, just do it deeper dive, not the

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Speaker 1: whole podcast common misconception. I love when someone's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I've listened to your podcast, which, first of all, there's

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Speaker 1: never a need to lie about that. I've never been

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Speaker 1: less hurt like when someone's like, I haven't listened to

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Speaker 1: your podcast and makes sense, you know, like why would

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Speaker 1: you listen to a podcast to shame our audience? Use

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Speaker 1: silly sods. But like when someone's kind of faking it

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Speaker 1: and then they're they're like, oh, that's the one where

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Speaker 1: you spend an hour and a half figuring out if

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Speaker 1: it passes the backtel, I'm like, do you think we

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Speaker 1: just print out the script? And I like, M, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. It looks like that's a male character, so

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Speaker 1: is not going to pass on to the next live

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Speaker 1: we should do in April Fool's episode, that is just that,

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Speaker 1: like us going through the script of the Shawshank Redemption

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Speaker 1: and just doing what like people who are lying about

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Speaker 1: listening to the show, I think it is. Anyways, this

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Speaker 1: is the bet. We use the Bechdel test, which is

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Speaker 1: a metric invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: back Doel Wallace test that requires that a piece of

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Speaker 1: media have an exchange between two female identifying characters with

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Speaker 1: names that is about something other than a man. Should

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Speaker 1: be easy enough, especially for this movie. Right, Well, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know topic. It's kind of the no, well,

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Speaker 1: it's complicated sometimes that's the thing, not a perfect metric.

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Speaker 1: But also we just have a lot to talk about today.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited for today. This episode has benny long

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Speaker 1: time coming. We were going to do it a while ago,

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Speaker 1: and then we found out that there was a live

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Speaker 1: action reboot of this movie coming out, and then we

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Speaker 1: had to postpone doing this episode by like a year,

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Speaker 1: which has been a painful way but the way here

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Speaker 1: we are. We were talking about Mulan finally finally, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the day has come Um and yeah we have we

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Speaker 1: there's so much ground to cover. So without much further ado,

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Speaker 1: let's introduce our guest. Um. She is a writer, a comedian. Um.

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Speaker 1: She's been a guest of ours previously on the Crazy

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Speaker 1: Rich Asians episode, and she's also made a contribution on

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Speaker 1: our Gremlins episode, which we were all very grateful for

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Speaker 1: and She's amazing. It's Seedi seng Hi. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me back, coming back so excited to talk about Mula,

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Speaker 1: which was one of the first jokes I ever wrote.

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Speaker 1: We actually about Mulan, really was. I had this bit

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Speaker 1: that I was, you know, I recently booked the job.

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Speaker 1: I got a role in the live action rem a Mulan,

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Speaker 1: And people in the audience would clap, because sometimes you

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Speaker 1: go to an audience that actually doesn't know you're joking,

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Speaker 1: so it's very sweet when they do. They're like lapping,

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Speaker 1: And then I would say, well, I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: playing Mushu because it's always been my dream to play

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Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy. So yeah, I guess they're they've brought back

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Speaker 1: Mushu for the live action remake, but not not Eddie.

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Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy is not voicing it. But I just saw

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Speaker 1: an IMDb thing where Mushu, but I don't know if

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Speaker 1: Mushoe talks, I don't know. Well, maybe my information is wrong,

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Speaker 1: but I just today watched uh one of those like

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Speaker 1: IMDb dot com originals where they like do a little

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Speaker 1: they're all all all bangers, but they're like people were

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Speaker 1: wondering would Mulan's Animal Friends return for the live action reboot,

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Speaker 1: and no one knew for sure, but it seems like

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Speaker 1: Mush at least Mush. I don't know about the cricket.

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Speaker 1: What does he what does he look like? Is it

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Speaker 1: like one of those like scary like lion king, like

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Speaker 1: photo realistic, Like I mean, he's a real Komodo dragon.

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Speaker 1: You're like, that's not why I come to the movie,

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Speaker 1: but it would be so weird based on what I've

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Speaker 1: seen in the trailers, which seems like a like for

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Speaker 1: a Disney movie. It's like a gritty action the first PG. Thirteen,

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Speaker 1: the yeah of the first because I guess that they're

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Speaker 1: they're like they're doing some real warship in there. Huh.

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Speaker 1: So again, Mulan is making some like serious like I

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Speaker 1: guess it's called bushoo ushoo fantasy kind of moves, so

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Speaker 1: lots of wire work that's really like body intensive. It

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Speaker 1: should be incredible to see. I'm really excited about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I mean, is Mulan the first Disney princess

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Speaker 1: who presumably kills people? We don't see her rack up

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Speaker 1: a body count in the cartoon, but I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's implied that she would have killed the main bag guy, right,

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Speaker 1: she lit him out somewhe she kills some well also,

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Speaker 1: I mean she crushes a lot of people with that

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Speaker 1: avalanche at A lot of people are in the aval

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Speaker 1: but they also seen to mostly come back and survive that.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts about how the how

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Speaker 1: the enemies on this in this war are portrayed, which

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Speaker 1: is like super racist, yes, like I mean we have

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Speaker 1: so so much because there they're like, oh, like people

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Speaker 1: who are on the opposite side of the war evil.

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Speaker 1: We're going to draw them darker than the rest of

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Speaker 1: the cast and their zombies and they have like animal eyes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the dark Like it's the way that it looks

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Speaker 1: like the beast in Beauty and like they yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a crazy way to regard like the Humes, which is

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Speaker 1: like the stand in for the the invaders of China

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Speaker 1: at this time. But it's it's so funny because he's

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Speaker 1: got like fanes too, literally from the dead, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: this is not human And this was the first time

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Speaker 1: watching this movie that I love, but like there are

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Speaker 1: some things where you're like, wait a second, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what this war is about. What if Mulan is

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Speaker 1: on the wrong side of the war, like, we don't

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Speaker 1: know what if they're fighting over don't don't trying to

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Speaker 1: like uprise against like a very like totalitarian empire. We

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Speaker 1: don't know, they don't and they don't tell us. They're

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Speaker 1: just like, well, we love Mulan, so she probably on

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Speaker 1: the right side of the work. But you're like, we don't,

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Speaker 1: we don't. That's actually guarantee war is fucked up? Did

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Speaker 1: you in this official stadium perhaps glorifies war a bit. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that said, it's also a cartoon. Does that make it better?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, right, I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if there's another Disney movie that deals with war, like

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess Lion King in a sense, like

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Speaker 1: the skirmishes with Uncle Scar kind of warl that is

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Speaker 1: because it's like different, but it's so isolated, such a

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Speaker 1: small battle. No, this is like, this is historical. There's

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Speaker 1: an actual war that happens. There's people that are divided politically,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the sort of the duty to the country,

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Speaker 1: which is like what Mulan really stand for, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: there are some like nationalism undertime duty to the I mean,

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Speaker 1: which I don't know. I'm like I don't even know

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Speaker 1: how to feel about that, but but it ended up

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Speaker 1: the military stuff in this You're just like, whoa there,

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Speaker 1: it's just very And I was thinking about that because

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot of writing about the reboot and

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Speaker 1: about their like, well, is this movie like being to

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Speaker 1: you know, over the top with like funded by military

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Speaker 1: stuff and like nationalism stuff, And it's like that may

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Speaker 1: be true in some ways, but it's like most Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, so many popular American movies are funded by

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Speaker 1: the military that I feel like it's disingenuous to be

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Speaker 1: like the entire Transformers is funded by the fucking Marines.

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Speaker 1: Like it's so true. We talked about this in Independence

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Speaker 1: Day with Lindsay Ellis, But like there's this like such

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Speaker 1: a well documented history of like people who have a

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Speaker 1: good relationship with the military get tanks to use in

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Speaker 1: their movies, and their movies make a billion dollars and

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Speaker 1: you're just like, I don't military industrial complexes is Oh boy,

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Speaker 1: is it not good? Quote me on that, so let

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Speaker 1: me get the full camouflage military industrial complex. I know

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Speaker 1: we went into this being like maybe it's good, but

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Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you it's actually very bad. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the part of the military sequence I found interesting was

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Speaker 1: like how whimsical the army training was. That was like,

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Speaker 1: that's definitely like a place in a Disney movie where

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Speaker 1: that should happen, because in most war movies the training

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Speaker 1: is definitely not whimsical. This is just like a giant

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Speaker 1: pole which belts around your way. And then also question,

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Speaker 1: is Leshan like the only male love interest that takes

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Speaker 1: off his shirt and a Disney movie, Well, Aladdin is

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Speaker 1: pretty shirt like is pretty, but but he's his nipples

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Speaker 1: are covered. That's true. S his body is very Suddenly

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Speaker 1: You're like it's right there, right. And then I went

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Speaker 1: back to my like I was like five when this

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Speaker 1: movie came out. I was just like, oh wow, like

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Speaker 1: just like your weird little like baby brain being like

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Speaker 1: this is different like this yeah, I I mean I

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Speaker 1: remembered when that scene happened. I mean, um, well, let's

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Speaker 1: dive in officially with we're gonna talk about the military

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Speaker 1: industrial complex, but we've hardly begun. Um, ste what's your

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Speaker 1: relationship history with this movie? So I was talking to

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Speaker 1: Caitlin a little bit earlier, and I kind of missed

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Speaker 1: the boat on this movie. When I was growing up

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Speaker 1: because I got a little too old for Milan when

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Speaker 1: it first came out, so I actually didn't watch it

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Speaker 1: until I turned like thirty, and so I came to

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Speaker 1: its super late wash it when I was thirty so

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Speaker 1: moved by it totally cried after like a first viewing

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Speaker 1: as an adult, I was like, oh, wow, the you know,

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Speaker 1: a story about the headstrown only daughter of a Chinese family,

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Speaker 1: I can't possibly relate to that. It was very It

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Speaker 1: was very like I should have known that this was coming,

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Speaker 1: and I still was not prepared for how much it

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Speaker 1: moved me. Um, and I watched this again just like

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Speaker 1: right before the podcast is to refresh my brain and

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Speaker 1: the details. And it's still a very, very action packed

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Speaker 1: story that has a lot to do with how the

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Speaker 1: protagonist is self motivated, and I think that is something

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Speaker 1: that like we love to see in female characters. And

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Speaker 1: she's just so she's so smart and has her own

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Speaker 1: morality and she has such conviction and that's really like

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Speaker 1: what gets her through all of the movie, really, and

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Speaker 1: I love that turn at the end where she has

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Speaker 1: to dress as a concubine so she successfully passes as

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Speaker 1: a woman. There's a lot of like drag king stuff

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, which I really love, and there's like

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Speaker 1: kind of drag queen stuff towards me, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is such kind of a drag eccentric movie. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot like yeah, I mean the gender performance, like

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Speaker 1: the female gender performance in this movie, it's like it's

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Speaker 1: kind of fucking incredible, Like it is really yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: talking more about it, there's well, we will, we definitely will.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much to talk. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: because there are certain elements. I just have never watched

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Speaker 1: this movie in not uh like I love Mulan lens.

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Speaker 1: That's the only way I've ever watched this movie is like,

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Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite movies ever. This movie

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Speaker 1: came out when I was five years old, and I

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Speaker 1: don't remember seeing it for the first time, but I

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Speaker 1: know that I saw it like five hundred times. We

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Speaker 1: did a whole Mulan Halloween and my family that, Um,

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Speaker 1: I checked the pictures. I'm like, Okay, we were not racist,

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Speaker 1: because you have to check when you're a white kid,

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Speaker 1: you have to be like, did my parents do a

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Speaker 1: good job. I think that they're a pretty good job.

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Speaker 1: I'll show you the picture, but but I should be

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Speaker 1: the front page of the podcast this week for the record,

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Speaker 1: because you gotta be careful. But yeah, like I was,

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Speaker 1: I loved it so much. I love just everything about it.

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Speaker 1: The Stevie one of the most cursed Disney musical collaborations

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Speaker 1: in history, between Stevie Wonder and ninety eight degrees Credits.

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Speaker 1: I was like, what is happening? I was ranking. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I think it's the second most cursed collab.

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Speaker 1: I love it, but it's the only more cursed collab

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Speaker 1: of the Disney Renaissance is in Sync and Phil Collins.

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Speaker 1: That's the worst one. True to your heart kind of slaps.

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Speaker 1: It's good, but you're just like, how did these don

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Speaker 1: did these people meet each other? It was that like Tarzan. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned this before, but in my favorite

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Speaker 1: press junket of all time, which is in Sync with

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Speaker 1: Phil Collins, and and it's like peak in Sync, it's

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Speaker 1: nine in Sync, Like Lance Bass is like, yeah, Phil

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Speaker 1: Collins is pretty much the sixth member of in Sync.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how Genesis feels about that. College is just

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Speaker 1: grimacing or you're just like, this is the greatest thing

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen. All I have to say I loved

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Speaker 1: Mulan at the time. I feel like it was the

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Speaker 1: first genuinely empowered Disney princess I had ever seen. It

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Speaker 1: was because there is like some nineties girl power elements

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Speaker 1: to this, but it really hit for me. Um. My

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Speaker 1: cousin was Warrior Mulan. I was Reflection Mulan, and my

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Speaker 1: brother was Shi. You were super deep. We were. It

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Speaker 1: was a whole family like we were just like we're

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Speaker 1: a Mulan, We're Mulan heads. So I love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's your history with it, um Cita. I'm like you

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Speaker 1: where I had aged out of kind of Disney movies

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Speaker 1: and I joke about having aged back into them because

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Speaker 1: I'm going to see Onward tomorrow. Um. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was twelve in this movie came out, so I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm too cool for cartoons. So it just like came

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Speaker 1: out at the wrong time for me, I guess, and

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Speaker 1: I and so I didn't grow up with it, and

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Speaker 1: I think I only saw it maybe once or twice,

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Speaker 1: just sort of in passing, not paying that much attention

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Speaker 1: to it in my like kind of more adolescent or

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Speaker 1: early adult years. And then I've watched it three times

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Speaker 1: now to prep for the episode because I'm like, shit,

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Speaker 1: like I hate that I missed this when I was younger,

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Speaker 1: because like it's so good, like it's I yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean there's there's plenty to talk about, but I love

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Speaker 1: so much about it. I love the songs, I love

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Speaker 1: the music, and I love there's like these all these

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Speaker 1: great montages. This is the first viewing that I I

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Speaker 1: think because I haven't seen this movie in like six

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Speaker 1: or seven years. I think this is the first time

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Speaker 1: I've seen it since I have become a beady once

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Speaker 1: Wong stand I didn't realize he was. I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I knew who he was the last time

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Speaker 1: I saw this movie like in high school, and like

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what, like so much good stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's so much and yeah, I mean you were touching

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Speaker 1: on just the character of Mulan, just like being so

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Speaker 1: smart and rustful and outspoken, and like, yeah, it gives

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Speaker 1: us a lot to talk about. It's also I think

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Speaker 1: for for girls that weren't like kind of girly girls,

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Speaker 1: like it has that rezomie like um the reflection Mulan

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Speaker 1: song that's very much about like trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: who you're supposed to be in this world that tells

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Speaker 1: you that you're supposed to be one way, but you

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Speaker 1: feel a totally different way, and that kind of plays

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Speaker 1: into the gender performance of it. But but that's soon

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Speaker 1: also probably, Like I was thinking about Mulan as a

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Speaker 1: whole for for young women. I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: a very good movie to also watch if you're like

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Speaker 1: a female comic amongst a lot of male comics where

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Speaker 1: you're like or is she's trying to fit into the army?

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, I felt that we're like

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Speaker 1: everything is disgusting, but you just have to like go

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Speaker 1: along to be like, yeah, this is great and people

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Speaker 1: are still like we hate you. Like cool. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: was just talking about how we were getting ready for

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Speaker 1: this episode today in a room with um two gay

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Speaker 1: men and they were both like reflection and like spoke

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Speaker 1: to me so much when I was a kid, of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, because it is such like a general theme

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Speaker 1: for people who feel like they don't fit into what

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Speaker 1: the prescribed norm is, where like it's it's And then

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Speaker 1: I did some research of I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if this is a common read and it seems

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Speaker 1: like there's like a fair amount of writing from queer

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Speaker 1: and trans writers who are like Reflection was like it

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Speaker 1: I easily see that. There's that line where she says, like,

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Speaker 1: when will my reflection show who I am inside? I mean,

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Speaker 1: And I think we've heard a similar read in The

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Speaker 1: Little Mermaid where like arials, transformation, Um, yeah, like feeling

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Speaker 1: like you're in the wrong skin, and a friend of

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Speaker 1: the cast, John Ford, spoke to that a bit, yes,

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I feel like that's always a cool

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Speaker 1: There's plenty of criticism of like huge pop culture Disney movies,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that like there are those big themes

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Speaker 1: that they can speak to that make kids who feel

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Speaker 1: out of place feel heard is really cool. And there

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Speaker 1: are such massive movies too, basically everyone sees them. So

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Speaker 1: it's not just like, oh, this is a message that

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Speaker 1: like a few people see. It's like, this is a

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Speaker 1: message like across a generation can see that. That does difference.

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Speaker 1: That really does. IM one of my closest friends from

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Speaker 1: high school. She immigrated from Haiti around the time this

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Speaker 1: movie came out, and it was one of the first

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Speaker 1: movies she saw in America, and she was like so

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Speaker 1: impacted by it that she majored in Chinese in college,

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Speaker 1: she's a fluent and she works in international relationship. Now

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Speaker 1: she I'm like Mulan, Like, people love Mulan. It changed

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Speaker 1: a lot um, all right, So I'll do the recap

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Speaker 1: and then we'll get into the discussion. We open we're

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Speaker 1: in ancient China. There's an attack un invasion led by

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Speaker 1: the big scary chan you, and the emperor is like,

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Speaker 1: this will not stand. We got to recruit people from

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Speaker 1: my army to fight these invaders. Then we meet Mulan.

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Speaker 1: She is prepared, kind of cheer good. She is preparing

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Speaker 1: to go to the village matchmaker because her family wants

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Speaker 1: her to be matched with a good husband so that

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Speaker 1: Mulan can bring honor to the family, because that's how

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Speaker 1: a woman in the world of this movie brings honor

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Speaker 1: to her family. We meet the mom, we meet her mom,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, I wonder if this relationship will

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Speaker 1: be explored, and then it's like no, and they're like, funny,

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Speaker 1: Grandma Trope. I'm like, okay, it's kind of funny. And

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Speaker 1: then her meeting with the matchmaker goes disastrously and she

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Speaker 1: tells Mulan that you will never bring honor to your family,

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Speaker 1: and that's when Mulan sings reflection about how you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe being a bride is not the part she's supposed

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Speaker 1: to play. Then the army recruiters show up, and one

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Speaker 1: of them is this guy, Chief Wu, and he's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: the Emperor is ordering one man from every family to

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Speaker 1: serve in the Imperial Army. And Mulan's father is prepared

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Speaker 1: to serve. But Mulan thinks that he should not have

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Speaker 1: to fight. I think it's implied that he was already

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Speaker 1: um a warrior in a previous and he and he

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Speaker 1: was injured and he like walks with a cane and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. So she's like, he should not have

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Speaker 1: to fight, so she decides to take his place. Um.

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Speaker 1: She cuts off her hair, she dons her father's armor

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Speaker 1: to disguise herself as a man, and then rides off

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Speaker 1: into the night. And her family discovers that she has left,

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Speaker 1: but they realize that if they reveal what she's done,

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Speaker 1: she will be killed. Um, so they can't go to

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Speaker 1: stop her. Meanwhile, and then Eddie Murphy, Eddie Murphy shuts up. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of high jinks and mishaps here, but

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Speaker 1: basically he's like, all right, I'm gonna go watch over

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Speaker 1: and help Mulan. I feel like he's just kind of

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Speaker 1: warming up for Shrek this whole movie. Like he literally

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Speaker 1: is just like maybe I could make a billion dollars

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Speaker 1: off of doing this. He's just warming up for Donkey

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Speaker 1: and never forget Shrek. Never forget Shrek, never forget Okay. So,

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Speaker 1: with the help of Mushu and Mulan's lucky cricket, she

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Speaker 1: goes off to join the army. And meanwhile, a young

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Speaker 1: soldier named Shang voiced by Beati Wong and the singing

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Speaker 1: voice is Donny Osmond. By the way, I know the

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Speaker 1: masked singer himself. He came in second place the first season.

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Speaker 1: Um uh. He is made captain of this army. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't catch this at first, but it's like a

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Speaker 1: nepotism thing higher basically where his father is the general.

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Speaker 1: I didn't either. I don't know why. When I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, I'm like, I don't know if I was

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Speaker 1: just I was so hyper focused on, like I love Mulan,

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Speaker 1: but I never realized that Lee Seng was nepotism and

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Speaker 1: that he was grieving for like half because his father

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Speaker 1: dies I totally forgot that. I thought that scene where

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Speaker 1: he sticks the sword down, puts his dad's helmet on top,

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Speaker 1: and Mulan sees him grief. I was like, that's a moment.

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Speaker 1: She was like, panties are wet a man didn't exactly

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Speaker 1: on the battlefield right after his father's deaths were just

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Speaker 1: like we're all there. She's seen him his shirtless and

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00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: then you're like, you're like, yeah, yeah, inappropriate, but you

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Speaker 1: you get the sentiment. And then that's like, I think,

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Speaker 1: a great moment in terms of like showing how like

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Speaker 1: I mean, they don't go all the way with masculinity

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Speaker 1: in this movie and kind of examining it, but the

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Speaker 1: way that you know, he has to to maintain his

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Speaker 1: role of authority compartmentalized like enormous grief totally. And then

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Speaker 1: he gets on his horse and he's like it's fine,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's like, oh, it isn't. And then they have

424
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: to you know, war war indeed today in addition to

425
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: other things. Yes, um okay. So he has made captain

426
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: and he begins training this group of recruits that Mulan

427
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: has joined, and she says, hey, guys, yes, I'm definitely

428
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: a man and my name is Ping, but Mulan as

429
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: Ping kind of gets off on the wrong foot accidentally

430
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: with a lot of the other soldiers um but eventually

431
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: she wins them over and they become friends, and the

432
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: training begins and Mulan is not good at anything. She

433
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: almost gets sent home, but then there's that fun training

434
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: montage and we see her get really good at everything

435
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: and one of the greatest songs in Disney history. It's

436
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: so and I didn't like in that long Slapper montage

437
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: you see the Mary Jane trope entirely like done away

438
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: with because it was it would be like, I feel

439
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: like a classic Disney steak to be like, and she

440
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: got to war and she just was good at war.

441
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: But it's like you see that she learns it and

442
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: really like commits to it, and so do the men

443
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: around her, and it's like it's a struggle for everyone

444
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: and it's like goofy, but at least you're like, okay,

445
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: at least they're showing like it's not it's not that

446
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,479
Speaker 1: Mary Sue like chosen one kind of narrative, like she

447
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: really rested her asked to be a great soldier. We

448
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: see that in Aladdin with Jasmine where she's like awesome

449
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: at like flipping over across buildings and she's like, I'm

450
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: a fast learner and she's like yeah, it's like you've

451
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: never left your palace, Like how are you right? You're

452
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: just like you've never left any Yeah there, when would

453
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: you have practiced that? That's a really good point because

454
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: I was reading about the legend, and in the Chinese

455
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: legend she actually learned martial arts and sword fighting and

456
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: everything from her dad. But if you had gone that

457
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: route with the story, you would have been not able

458
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: to have the training montage because I think what's what's

459
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: so great about the trade being montage, in addition to

460
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: the sun and everything, is that it's the camaraderie with

461
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: her friends. That's that's what builds like an army, right,

462
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: Like speaking of the military industrial commers, one of the

463
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: many reasons that so many men are so what it

464
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: imponded to it is the commonality of experience of going

465
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: through war training. Yeah. Yeah, and like seeing that, I

466
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: don't know. I like that they not only managed to

467
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: show that, but they may as you show it, and

468
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: maybe the most entertaining way history of war movies, I know,

469
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: because like compared this training montage to like the boot

470
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: camp sequence in Full Metal Jacket, and you're just like, oh,

471
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: these are totally very different, like we know which one

472
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: is more realistic, but which one has fun um Okay.

473
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: So then she goes through the montage. She gets really

474
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: good at everything. She's the only one who can figure

475
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: out how to get to the top of the poll

476
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: to retrieve the arrow that Shang had fired. She's st

477
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: smart um and by the end she's at the top

478
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: of her class, so to speak. Um. Meanwhile, the Hun

479
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: army is advancing and Mulan and her fellow soldiers are

480
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: sent to fight. They come upon Shan You and his

481
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: giant army of Hans who start to advance on them,

482
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: and they're about to aim a canon at Shan You,

483
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: but Mulan is like, no, I have a better idea,

484
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: and she aims it at the mountain, which causes that

485
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: huge avalanche that berries Shanu's army, and everyone's like hip hip,

486
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: hooray for Ping. But Mulan as Ping has been wounded,

487
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: and when her wound is tended to, that's when everyone

488
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: discovers that she is a woman. And in one of

489
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: the rewatching it goofy ist music stings I've ever heard of,

490
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: Like when comes in Oh, when Lesian comes into the

491
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: tent and Mulan is revealed to have titties, there's a

492
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: sinister titty sting where it goes like it goes like Dune, Dune,

493
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: and it's like she has t and then everyone's like, like,

494
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: it's so weird at least soapy in the middle of

495
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: this great movie. But I like rewound. I was like,

496
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: wait a second, they did that. There is a sinister

497
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 1: like I guess that that like if you're but you're like,

498
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: that's a little on the nose, but yeah, it's like

499
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: she has t. Well, when it's revealed that she is

500
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: a woman, um, they're like, this is treason and the

501
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: penalty was supposed to be death, but because she saved Shang,

502
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: he spares her life. Because of that awarding male mediocrity,

503
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: I have to date this man because he didn't murder me.

504
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem fair. So instead they just abandoned her

505
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: and she feels as though she's a failure and she's

506
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: about to turn and go back home. But this is

507
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: also when she sees Chanyu's army rise up from the avalanche,

508
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: like the snow and she realizes she has to go

509
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: worn the army, so she does this. She arrives in

510
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: the city. No one will listen to her because she's

511
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: a woman and these men do not, and they view

512
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: her as a trader. They're having a parade for her work,

513
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: but yes, they're they're taking credit for It's in fury.

514
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: She's like, She's like, the Huns are about to kill you,

515
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: and they're like, go away, shut up. Yeah, while they're

516
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: like spending however much money, literally taking credit for her work,

517
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: and it's like, what a beautiful parade that she cannot

518
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: get through and then she gets no credit for It's

519
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: like it's a celebration of her accomplishment that she has

520
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: to overcome because yeah, so so rude, um so. And

521
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: then during this victory celebration, the Huns attack and kidnaped

522
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: the emperor, but Milan and her friends fight back and

523
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: dressed in drag while doing it um to trick the Huns. Yes,

524
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: they saved the emperor and Mulan kills Shan you and

525
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: the emperor is like, wow, Mulan, you're so cool. Here's

526
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: a spot on my council and she's like, no, I'm good.

527
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: Actually I'm gonna go home to my family. She returns home,

528
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: her family realizes, oh, you have brought us great honor,

529
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: um for being a war hero. And then Shang shows

530
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: up and he's like, oh, you're cute. I just realized.

531
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: This is where like in retrospect you're just like, yeah,

532
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm not crazy, and I'm not I'm not happy about

533
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: the ending, but and that's so let's take a quick

534
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come right back to discuss. And

535
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: we're back. Yes, um so, because we just finished Caitlin's

536
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: famous recap, I think that on rewatch Um, the ending

537
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: is one of the parts of the movie that holds

538
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: up the least well for me, Um because I feel like,

539
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, at the climax of the movie, the whole

540
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: country bows to her. I'm like weeping. It's the most cathartic, amazing,

541
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: Like this woman who has been through this intense sacrifice

542
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: and like she's done so much and she's finally like

543
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: just getting credit for what she did. It's so just

544
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: like you don't get to see that a lot, especially

545
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: in the kids movie, and and then to see what

546
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: the like where that leads to is I feel like

547
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: you see this whole movie of Mulan kicking open this

548
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: door that was not open for women, and then the

549
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: movie ends with that door just kind of shutting behind

550
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: her because the and and especially bothers me and the

551
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: way that they wrote that scene between her and the emperor,

552
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: and then how the Emperor talks to Lei Shang about

553
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: her after she leaves, which he basically is just saying

554
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: she's not like the other girls. It doesn't make him

555
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: reconsider should women be given more opportunities? Should women be

556
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: allowed to be in the military. He's like, you don't

557
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: mean a girl like that every dynasty wink wink, And

558
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: it's just like totally missing the point of what the

559
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: movie seem to have such a great understanding of. And

560
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: they're just like, oh, like, yeah, women can do stuff

561
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: as long as they're like this woman. And even even

562
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: she is just sent back home to domesticity and a

563
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: boyfriend and she has to be okay with that, right,

564
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: like to be fair. That is how the legend also

565
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: kind of ends, and legend ends so much worse. Yeah,

566
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: Like but it's like it's and I feel like a

567
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: movie that does so much more than most movies made

568
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: for young girls do, Like they could have taken some

569
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: artistic license there and could have given her a life

570
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 1: that didn't have to just do it. And she has

571
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: a boyfriend now and that and the end right, and

572
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: I have complicated feelings about this because like the Emperor

573
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: is like, hey, you're so great that I want to

574
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: offer you a position on my counsel. He's like giving

575
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: her this, this position of power, and she refuses to

576
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: do that. She's like, I'd rather go home and be

577
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: with my family, and that's her choice. But also the

578
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: movie makes her make that choice, and like they don't

579
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: need to do that. I don't know, it just felt weird,

580
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: and I was glad that at least it's like, oh,

581
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: she was offered an opportunity, but that almost makes it

582
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: feel weirder to me. Of like her whole like the

583
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: Disney Renaissance model, of like the heroine at the beginning

584
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: sings about what she wants and it's to be like

585
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: seen for being different and that's okay, and then at

586
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: the end she just decides to be the same. Like

587
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: that that doesn't even feel consistent with the character. All

588
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: of those two those two points are really good consistent

589
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: with the way that this movie portrays Mulan. I think

590
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: maybe what they were trying to do is hard come

591
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: back to the myth, which has Mula and being like,

592
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: I love my family so much and war is going

593
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: to come between my family, and I have to stop

594
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: the war so that I can be with my family,

595
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: And I don't think the movie does that very well.

596
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: I think the movie focuses more on her individuating herself,

597
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: improving herself, and so it is distinctly disappointing at the

598
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: end when she reverts when she gets I mean Lesha

599
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 1: and is a boyfriend, which is great, but like, that's

600
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: not that doesn't feel like where we've been led. Yeah,

601
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: and that also was never her goal, Like it didn't

602
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: we weren't led to believe that she she The movie

603
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: starts with her outright not wanting a relationship in any way,

604
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: to the point where she's like really frustrated that it's

605
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: being forced a p and so I mean, it's it's

606
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: I feel like, at least it's like, you know, she's

607
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: choosing her partner, and that is different from what is

608
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: being presented to her at the beginning. But it just

609
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: feels like a not a fair compromise for the character

610
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: that we've I don't know. And it's weird because it's

611
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: like when I was a kid and when I was

612
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: watching this movie growing up, I never really thought of

613
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: it that way, but watching it now, I was it

614
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: was It's not like I mean, it's still an incredible movie,

615
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: but I was kind of like, I feel like Mulan

616
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: would want more. I don't know, and well, what's your

617
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: ideal ending? How would you want to see her end up?

618
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: My ending? Okay, I was trying. I was trying to

619
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: think about this. I if she ends up with Leashing, great,

620
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: but I feel like if her and Lea Shang they

621
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: worked together maybe and like she's proven herself to be

622
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: this incredible soldier and maybe they could work alongside each

623
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: other as and which I mean that's probably not historically feasible,

624
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: but it's a Disney movie. Like I'd like to see

625
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: her go on and like in my head, I'm like

626
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: flash forward to Mulan training young girls in like physical combat,

627
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: Like that's badass, even if it's in her hometown and

628
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: her dad's there and he's like, I'm so proud, and

629
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: her mom is like I wish I was a character

630
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: and I wi had in her life, right, but it's

631
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: like Mulan training young girls and maybe she's home with

632
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: her family, but it's like something of like has something

633
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: that's more than what she was rebelling against at the beginning,

634
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: right mind, when my version of the ending would be

635
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: if she accepts that position on the Emperor's Council. Again,

636
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: assuming it's he's not like, you know, an evil dictator.

637
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: We don't know of this dynasty, but we're not sure,

638
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: so hopefully, you know, he's very progressive. He's you know

639
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: that he like more women on the council and right exactly,

640
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: I mean hopefully that's why he offers on the job.

641
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: But she accepts the position, she moves her family to

642
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: like the Imperial City so she can still be with

643
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: her family. But you know, she's got this powerful position

644
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: in politics and stuff like that. And you know, if

645
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: she ends up with Shang, fine, but for the movie

646
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: to end that way where like he shows up and

647
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, I just realize you're hot. That just

648
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: feels so tacked on, especially because like what you were

649
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: saying where right around the low point of the movie

650
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: screenwriting degree, I had to mention it. But um, she

651
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: has this whole in realization where she's like, oh, I, UM,

652
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: maybe I didn't do this for my father, because that's

653
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: what seems like her motivation is initially where she's like,

654
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to save my father's life, and I think

655
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: that's probably still part of why she makes that choice,

656
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: but she realizes like, maybe I didn't do this for

657
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: my father. Maybe I what I really wanted was to

658
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: prove that I could do things right, like, because we

659
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: see her failing so miserably at like being what's expected

660
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: of her as like a traditional woman and a bride.

661
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,479
Speaker 1: So she's like, but here's something I think I could

662
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: be good at, and it turns out she is, and

663
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: it ends up I feel like those themes end up

664
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: kind of fighting with each other a little bit, where

665
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: they just like by subscribing kind of strictly to the

666
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: like mythic mulan that has existed in culture for thousands

667
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: of years and then also adding in these nineties themes,

668
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: but the nineties themes don't really pay off in the

669
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: way that it's written, um, and they kind of just

670
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: they're like, well it we have basically this ending, so

671
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: let's just keep it. But it is like she has

672
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: that line where she literally like maybe I wanted to

673
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: do things right, maybe I wanted to look in the

674
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: mirror and see someone worthwhile. And that's like, I mean,

675
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 1: she articulates that herself, and I feel like that desire

676
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: is maybe paid off a little bit in the fact that,

677
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, trying to bowse to her, she gets credit

678
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 1: and she gets validation. But to think that that is like, Okay,

679
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: well I'm done, I'm self actualized, and now I can

680
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: just be a wife just doesn't It feels like it

681
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: undoes a lot of what had been set up. I

682
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: like that they try to add these modern themes, but

683
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: I just feel like they're not fully paid off on

684
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: It's like the themes are modern, but the actions are

685
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: historic but not, but then the historical actions undermine the themes. Yeah,

686
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: it ends up kind of like being like, yeah, in

687
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of conflict with each other. Yeah. I

688
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: just think maybe in history two women have always found

689
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: ways to to enact rebellion in ways that you just

690
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: just not obvious. And and an historical record is so

691
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: shitty at keeping record about women in general. Who knows

692
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: if if Mulan didn't. Okay, so in my version, Mulan

693
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: besides that living as a man is pretty awesome. So

694
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 1: she goes back to her hometown, tells her parents maybe

695
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 1: like assuages them or does something where she like assuages

696
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: their fears because there's going to be news all over

697
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: about her, and she just goes on and lives as

698
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: a man and like figures out like how because she's

699
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: so successful. As I love this reason, listeners, please share

700
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: your ideal ending of Mulana. We all agree the one

701
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: that we get isn't the perfect one, and I mean,

702
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: there's just seems like there's three better ideas in the

703
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: room right now, I think, so maybe the live action

704
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 1: one will you know, it'll be closer to one of these.

705
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: Could I really quickly share just the the sourcement, just

706
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: a quick summary of what the kind of legend um

707
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: and how it goes, because I wasn't totally I knew

708
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: that it was based on something, but I didn't know

709
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: if it had something to do with history or for

710
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: a strictly legend. It seems like it's legend um, but

711
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: so here's a quick wiki summary. It is officially based

712
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: on the Ballad of Mulan that goes a little something

713
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: like this. It's set in the Northern Way era, which

714
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 1: is between three eight six and five thirty six, which

715
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: is like somewhere in the time that the movie is

716
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: also supposed to take place. Is a D or BC

717
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: a D but you know, a long time ago. We

718
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: don't know what the politics are at this time. We

719
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 1: still don't know who's right. I try, I was really

720
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: trying to do research of like is this a real war? Yes?

721
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: Who is right? I couldn't figure it out. I've got confused.

722
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Uh. The poem starts with Mulan sitting worriedly

723
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: at her loom as one male from each family is

724
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: called to serve in the army to defend the Tuoba

725
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Realm from the Ruin invaders. Her father is old and weak,

726
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: and her younger brother, which I'm like, oh, we cut

727
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: him in. Well here's a dog. When she's like little brother,

728
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: little brother, yea the dog. Well, her younger brother is

729
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: just a child or a dog. So she decides to

730
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: take her father's place and bids farewell to her parents,

731
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: who support her, which I think is an interesting difference.

732
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: And she tells her parents I'm doing this. I kind

733
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: of like that about her away. She's already skilled in fighting,

734
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: having been taught martial arts, sword fighting, in archery by

735
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: the time she lists in the army, which I think

736
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: is what you were saying to about her dad. And

737
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: the interesting thing about Chinese women is that like kind

738
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: of feminism went through different waves. I mean, the kind

739
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: of feminism that we know about ancient Chinese women during

740
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: the Confusion periods are like very like subservient and like

741
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: like supposed to obey the patriarchy. But Chinese women also

742
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: went through periods of time where they were the head

743
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: of the household and they were like more pushed to

744
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: the forefront, and those records are lost in history. Of course,

745
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: it's comforting to be like, maybe it happened there, It

746
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: seems like Mulan, especially because like for a story to

747
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: persist for this long and like it seems like this

748
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: story was written in a period where women had more

749
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: agency than possibly we do right now. Um, So after

750
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: twelve years of fighting the army, so she's in the

751
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: military for twelve years, and after twelve years the army

752
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: returns and the warriors are rewarded. Mulan turns down an

753
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: official post and asked only for a camel to carry

754
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: her home. Wouldn't it be great if she left on

755
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: a camel. She's gretably joyed by her family. Mulan donned

756
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: her old clothes and meets her comrades, who are shocked

757
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: that in the twelve years of their enlistment together, they

758
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: did not realize she was a woman. So that's the story.

759
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: So I feel like that element the ending is kind

760
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: of pulled from the legend in but then like some

761
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: of the parts I think about the legend that are

762
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: really cool are left out, Like what if Mulan left

763
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: with her parents blessing? That's kind of wild, And like

764
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: what if her father had actively trained her that would

765
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: have been I don't know. There's like parts of this

766
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: ancient story that feel more progressive than the story where right.

767
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if, like the this adaptation was like, well,

768
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: let's really heighten the patriarchy here, but then also like

769
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: bowed down to it by the very like in the

770
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: very final scene of So did y'all check out the

771
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: credit the writing credits for this movie. So the story

772
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: is adapted by Robert C. Somebody somebody, and then the

773
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: actual screenplays written by like five different people, one person

774
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: being I think Chinese. I think there's one person of

775
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: the fighters, Yeah, is Chinese who her other writing credits

776
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: I found were Toy Story two and My Little Pony Movie.

777
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: So she's solid, solid record, solid. Yeah. I was reading

778
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: on Cora. I just got curious about what the Chinese

779
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: think about Mulan, and I just love Cora and all

780
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: it's freaky people the right like ten pages for every answer.

781
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: And one of the commenters said that Kung Fu Panda

782
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: was a better depiction of Chinese culture. Cannot disagree because

783
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 1: comul Panic got a lot of things right. Well, let's

784
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: talk about I mean, the depiction of Chinese culture in

785
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 1: this movie, because a lot of the criticism I've seen

786
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: around this and again I'm like a dumb white lady

787
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: from Massachusetts, so my knowledge is limited, but reading just

788
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: a little a little bit about the criticism surrounding it,

789
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: it seems like there there is this like disconnect in

790
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: adapting Eastern legend to Western pop culture, Like there is

791
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: like some disconnect there that like it works for Western

792
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: audiences in some ways in a way that like doesn't

793
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't. I think so. Some of the reading that

794
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,959
Speaker 1: I did was that Mulan as a like the four

795
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: Thousand Lines poem that it is, like, you know, a

796
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: lot of Chinese students have to take the entrance exams

797
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: that allow them to qualify for university. A Mulan is

798
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: part of that curriculum. So so it's essentially like the

799
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: hardest test you have to take. It you have to

800
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: know like four thousand lines of a poem like Mulan

801
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: has a totally different kind of place in the Chinese

802
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: like psyche, it's gonna like it's like like if you

803
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: had to read you know, like Katalas or something like

804
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: Latin geeks would know what Catalas is. But that's the

805
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: kind of test that it is, you know, So that

806
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: that's that places it in a different like it's very

807
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: reverential but also very scholarly. So there's that part of it.

808
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: But I think what I noticed in just the production

809
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: design of the movie is that they just mashed up

810
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 1: Asia in the movie. So like the soldiers uniforms look Japanese,

811
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 1: they look like a very Samurai influence, and then there

812
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: were a ton of drums, which are very Korean, and

813
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 1: so I think when they when this movie went to China,

814
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: I think Chinese people were just like what the actual fuck,

815
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 1: Like what the funk am I looking at on screen

816
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: right now, and there's this tiny dragon that's voiced by

817
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy, you know, and also named like mushi, which

818
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,919
Speaker 1: was like offensive in itself. Yeah, it's it's named after

819
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: an Americanized Chinese dish, even that in itself, like I

820
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: read some because I I didn't realize that Musho is

821
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: in the new movie. I thought he was cut out

822
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: because there was a lot of criticism. It might be

823
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: very wrong. It might just be a dragon who is

824
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: probably like photo realistic, but like to look at it,

825
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: I can't say, but I I when the first because

826
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: a lot of the analysis I was reading was when

827
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: the first trailers were coming out and people were just

828
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: kind of reacting to it. But um, you know, some

829
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: American audiences were like, where is Eddie Murphy? And then

830
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: the response was like that character was offensive in a

831
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: lot of ways and kind of like and like just

832
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: and also like, I mean, at least was meaningless and

833
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: had no grounding and anything that was realistic and then

834
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: at worst was like yeah, kind of like offensive and

835
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: like you just named something after like americanized Chinese dish

836
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: that you've had white male writer, um, of which there

837
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: are three on this movie. Yes, there's a lot of them,

838
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: there is, uh. For from what I could tell, it

839
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: was for writer for white writers, two women and one

840
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: person of Chinese heritage, who is a woman who you

841
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: would think, couldn't she just write the movie, you would think,

842
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: But no, you need the backup of some people such

843
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: as and it's kind of I mean, it seems a

844
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: little sinister to me that there are some writers here

845
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 1: who uh there's two writers in particular who are sis

846
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: had white male writers who went literally went to Harvard Um.

847
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: So just a person we've encountered, but especially this writer,

848
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: m Philip Lizebnik, who is a writer who seems to

849
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: have specialized in animated children movies with non white protagonists,

850
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that he is a sis

851
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: had white male who went to Harvard UM. It's very

852
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: sinister to me that you could trace a whole generation

853
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: of kids worth of like held misinformation, if not racism,

854
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: to like particular writers. But Philip lizette Nick has credits

855
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: such as Pocahontas, uh, probably the worst one of all, Mulan,

856
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: the Prince of Egypt, The Road to El Dorado, The

857
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: Lost Treasure of the Knights Templar, like just movie after

858
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: movie after movie that mischaracterizes non white protagonists. Um and

859
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: kind of creates these very Western narratives around cultures that

860
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: they couldn't possibly understand. I mean, those were hits too,

861
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: and they were all hits. And I think that's the

862
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: only color Disney release Ease right, Diseasesees Switch and the

863
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: other writer who kind of has the same thing as

864
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: Chris Sanders, whose other biggest hit was Lilo and Stitch

865
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: Um which Hawaiian is a Hawaiian culture. Chris Sanders as

866
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: from Colorado, and he also fun fact this is is

867
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: it fun? I don't know. He directed that new Call

868
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: the Wild movie with Harrison Ford in a Pilo tennis balls,

869
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: So you know, he's fine. He's never been. He's finally

870
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 1: back in his old white man genre telling stories. I guess.

871
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, Um and a Dog, but it is.

872
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like the two writers with the most

873
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: credits are two white men who have been telling non

874
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 1: white stories from a place of ignorance for their entire careers,

875
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: to the tune of millions of dollars. For your consideration,

876
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: Let's take another quick break and then we will come

877
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: right back and we're back. We're back. Um. I have

878
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: a list of ways in which this movie subverts a

879
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: lot of Disney movie troops that would like to share,

880
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: especially of this renaissance era, because this is one of

881
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: the later Disney Renaissance movies us all the way. I

882
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: think people might disagree with me, but I do not

883
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: think this is a princess movie. You could disagree, but

884
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: I think that's also a good thing, not positive, um

885
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: to me. Unlike a lot of other Disney movies which

886
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: are like the ones that are geared towards girls, they

887
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 1: are princess fairytale narratives. And even even though this one

888
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: is kind of based in ancient legend, and you know

889
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: it does feature a female lead, it's not like a princess,

890
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, getting locked in a tower needing to be

891
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: saved by a man, her prince charming any like. None

892
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, so, you know, just the message that rich,

893
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: conventionally beautiful, usually white, young stiss women who are princesses

894
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: looking for prince are the only type of women who

895
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: whose stories are worth telling. Um. But Mulan subverts that

896
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: whole thing. Um. I think she is the are of

897
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: a wealthy family though, just judging from property like her own,

898
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: like Zi, Yeah, it was, it was like very large.

899
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: And usually in China you can tell how fancy people

900
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: are by how high their doorsteps are. Interesting, the higher

901
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: to doorsteps, the wealthier they are. You have to cross

902
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: with like massive threshold. Well by that metric, Geah, they're chilling,

903
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: they're good, keep the rats out nice. Next one is

904
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 1: that kind of like piggybacking off of it not being

905
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: like a princess fairy tale movie. Um, Mulan's Gold does

906
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: not have anything to do with finding a man or

907
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 1: like having a romantic interest. And you know, while Shang

908
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: does show up at her house at the end and

909
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,959
Speaker 1: it's implied that she ends up with him romantically, it's

910
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: like not the focal point of the story in anyway.

911
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: It's it feels like more of like an afterthought, like

912
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: danu mall thing than any major part of the plot.

913
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying any time. Yeah, um, And I

914
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: would also argue, well, here's something that I am not

915
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: too happy with, but I think Shang is like not

916
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: the best love interest. Agree, he's hot, he's hot, nipples.

917
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: I was trying Okay, I pause, I couldn't talk. Does

918
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: he have nipples? Because Disney has this weird thing where

919
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: they're like men can be shirtless, but they can't have nipples.

920
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: He does have kiples, he didn't, okay, thank you, because

921
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: I was like King Triton didn't have nipples, and that

922
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: that kN Tritton does does have there just dominent nipples.

923
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: Back the nipples because there was a time where they

924
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: were shirtless men but they didn't have nipple because maybe

925
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: King Triton's nipples scared them off. Maybe, but like Aladdin

926
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: does not have nipples. Aladdin was just so sexual. They

927
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 1: were like, we got a total back because the genie

928
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: also doesn't have nipples. Both male protagonists are shirtless the

929
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: whole time. They don't have nipples, and then you're just like,

930
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: who is this or got anatomically correct Asian male nipples

931
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: for the audience Another point for the movie. The next

932
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 1: thing on my list is that Mulan's mother is not dead.

933
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: She does not have a dead mom the character wise, characterwise,

934
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 1: she is not alive. She could just be the grandma.

935
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: They could have just folded that into one character, which

936
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, there to this day, shamefully, one of

937
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: my mom's favorite Disney exchanges in the Whole Cannon is

938
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: towards the end where the where Mulan says would you

939
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: like to stay for dinner? And the grandma says would

940
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: you like to stay forever? My mom howls, She's like

941
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: the funniest joke ever written, Like that's my mom's bar

942
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 1: for comedy that exchange. But Grandma, Yeah, So her mom

943
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: is a lot, her mother isn't alive, and we also

944
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: see her grandmother. Both of those characters really just want

945
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: Mulan to be a bride, And the movie does frame

946
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: Mulan's relationship with her father as the more important relationship

947
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 1: in the story, and I think a little more like

948
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: even more frustrating. On top of that, is like her

949
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: father seems to be the only person in her family

950
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,760
Speaker 1: who believes that she is capable of more than being

951
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: a you know, like very conscribed feminine person, which is

952
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: frustrating and like doesn't I don't know like that, Like

953
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: her father is the one who believes in her, and

954
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: her mother and her grandmother, who are both seemed to

955
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: be pretty strong female characters, don't believe that she's capable

956
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: of more. It's like, well then they might as well

957
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: be dead, you know what I mean. I don't want

958
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: them to, but but you know what, like the fact

959
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: that her father is the one who is presented is

960
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: by far the more most sympathetic character, where Like he's

961
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: the one that believes in her and he gets the

962
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: big moment at the end of the greatest honor of

963
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: all is having he as my daughter. And I'm like weeping,

964
00:54:54,640 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: but I'm also critical. Next thing is, from what I

965
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: could tell, the villain is not queer quoted like the

966
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: villains are. It's just racist. It's just racist that way better.

967
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: They don't even have human skin tones, that's like they're

968
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: and he has yellow eyes. That is I mean, that

969
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: is like something that is like a major issue I

970
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: had on a rewatch of Like they are drawn to

971
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,720
Speaker 1: not be people, the people who we are not given

972
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: any perspective on why are they fighting? What are they

973
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 1: fighting for? It? They're like they're on the opposite side

974
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 1: of our protagonists, and so we're going to draw them

975
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,879
Speaker 1: as gray, immortal animals. What if they're fighting for like

976
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: universal health care is just like fuck you girl. More likely,

977
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 1: what if they're literally canvassing for Bernie? I mean, that

978
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: is how Bernie grows up, but then it's like but

979
00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: ultimately they have some good ideas. I don't know. My

980
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: guess is that in the context of this kind of

981
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: time period in China, there's a bunch of warring tribes.

982
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: There's like there's no real China like per se. You know,

983
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: China's in its four thousand years of history has had

984
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: so many different iterations of its kingdom. So the sort

985
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: of fancy side, the fancy Chinese in this movie are

986
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: like the ones that have cities and stuff. Most likely

987
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: there were the people that were leving taxes against the

988
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: people that were more nomadic because they're because they have

989
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: the infrastructure to do it and to collect taxes, and

990
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 1: the invaders, usually nomadic invaders don't want to pay taxes.

991
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: That's why they're nomadic. And maybe that's that might be

992
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: what the invasions about. But the timeline is also super distorted,

993
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,240
Speaker 1: so I in in the movie it says it takes

994
00:56:54,280 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: place during dynasty, which ended like a hundred years before.

995
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: Like the Huns, the legend and the movie don't take

996
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: place in the same I don't even know how intentionally

997
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: that's done or if that was just like scattershot White

998
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: writer being like here because the Han dynasty, from what

999
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: research I've done, seems to be kind of like a

1000
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: Golden age of Chinese history. So I don't know if

1001
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: a white writer did a light google almost like sure,

1002
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: let's put it here, um, But that's not It seems

1003
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: like the Ballad of Muan takes place after where we're

1004
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: being told the movie takes place, which would be in BC.

1005
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: Not so confusing. Ancient history is wild in any case,

1006
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: the villain is not queer coded the way that many

1007
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: villains of this you know, Disney Renaissance era are. I

1008
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't give that a point though, because it's just racist

1009
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: instead of it's like a racist and making it to

1010
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: seem like it's a zombie animal. That's true, okay, so withdraw,

1011
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: but speaking is just worse worse. Well, and I don't

1012
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: mean to sound like I'm defending anything here, but the

1013
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: queer coded villains are also racist in these in you know,

1014
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: Lion King and because they always have darker skin and

1015
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: things like that. Yes, I mean, and this is the

1016
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: very least, but like at least in some cases the

1017
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,439
Speaker 1: queer coded villains have been reclaimed. I do not see

1018
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: anyone reclaiming like like, like, fuck you, Disney, I'm reclaiming

1019
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: Sean You like no one has reclaimed Sean You. Plenty

1020
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: have reclaimed Ursula in a very powerful way. That is

1021
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: like a middle finger to the Disney Corporation. That's also

1022
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: given him a lot of my She's a businesswoman and

1023
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: a lawyer. Of course, Shan You has made zero dollars

1024
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: in the past ten years. If the color we're talking

1025
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: about is green, shaw You is negative. Another one. Mulan

1026
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: never has to be saved. I don't think me if

1027
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but I didn't. I don't notice any moment

1028
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: where she had But she does save. She saves Shang

1029
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: during the avalanche, and then again towards the end when

1030
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: um Shan You is about to kill Shang and Mulan

1031
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: like throws a shoe at him, and she's like, it

1032
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: was me who took your victory away. And then Mulan

1033
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: and Shan You battle each other, which leads me to

1034
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: the next kind of trope being subverted, which is Mulan

1035
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: gets to defeat the villain during the climax of the movie,

1036
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: and she fights with weapons and pots, pans domestic items,

1037
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: which is how we normally see if a woman is

1038
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: allowed to fight and defend herself. It is with traditionally

1039
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: feminine objects, right, Like Mulan is using like real weapons,

1040
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: whereas her friends, her army buddies, who are dressed in

1041
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: dragged by the way and this and this climactic sequence. Um,

1042
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: they are using like fruit to fight the bad guys.

1043
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: So it's like, guess, I mean, I don't know what

1044
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: that suggests exactly inversion that you're like, it's like, it's

1045
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: like men who are presenting as women still using domestic

1046
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: items to fight with. I think, yeah, it didn't bother me. Well,

1047
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: the fun part of that scene on the roof with

1048
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: Shang You is that she's fighting him with like the

1049
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: sort of the board identity items, like a random stick

1050
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: or something. Right, But then she takes shang you sword

1051
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: from him, And that's the bad ass of where you're like, oh,

1052
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: ship's about the guest real you got your sword taken away? Stereotype.

1053
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: You're like, listen, raises villain, she got to the top

1054
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: of the pole. You don't understand, Like it's exciting, um,

1055
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: And I well, I was worried that this wouldn't be

1056
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: the case because you know, we see in a little

1057
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast, where even though the

1058
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: protagonists of those movies are women, it's always the male

1059
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: love interest who steps in and like defeats the villain.

1060
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: But so I was like, oh, no, is this going

1061
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: to happen again, especially when I don't even know where

1062
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: Shaning is for the majority of the Yeah, he's like

1063
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: I'm honestly, he doesn't kind of burst in and fight

1064
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: Shan you for like a minute, but then then he

1065
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: gets knocked away. And then Mulan takes over and right

1066
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: fights with weapons. She uses cannon, she uses swords and

1067
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: both narrows and like all this stuff, and Shane gets

1068
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: pretty much sidelined from that, you know, final climactic battle sequence,

1069
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: he breaks her fall. That's how important to the fight

1070
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: is he breaks her fall. He doesn't want a well

1071
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: placed poll could do. Um. So yeah, those are the

1072
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: main things I clocked in terms of this movie, um subverting,

1073
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: And I just think that like Mulan is a character overall,

1074
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: is just better characterized and like someone the Little Girls

1075
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: and anyone who's watching this movie can look up to

1076
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: far more than the main stree is Mulan, Like she

1077
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: fucking rules like no one will ever talk me out

1078
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: of mulan rules. She's amazed and and she's also from

1079
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: what I was able to track, the first non white person,

1080
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: whether justified or not, included in Disney Princess Cannon, who

1081
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: isn't sexualized within an inch of her life, because that

1082
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: was a huge I mean with Jasmine Esmeralda and Coca Hantas.

1083
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:25,439
Speaker 1: They were three brown women of different ethnicities who were

1084
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: over sexualized, and it was a big problem. And this

1085
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: was like one of the first things where you're, like,

1086
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: did Disney take a note because Mulan is not sexualized,

1087
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 1: she like her body is mostly hidden, right and and

1088
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: and that kind of lines up with like, her character

1089
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,479
Speaker 1: has no vested interest in appearing in a sexualized way.

1090
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: And it's like, it's one thing if like a female

1091
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: character is like I want to present a certain way,

1092
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: but that is not her stated intent and the movie

1093
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: doesn't subject her to anything that doesn't make sense, and

1094
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 1: that like that that is like, unfortunately a huge step

1095
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: forward for Disney Renaissance movies, especially as not like I

1096
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: mean not they sexualize all women, but they especially over

1097
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: sexualized non white women. So in that way, you're like,

1098
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: and there would have been an opportunity because there's that

1099
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: scene where she takes a bath and like the pond,

1100
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: she gets naked, and there's right but like all of

1101
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: that is handled like very responsibly as far as is handled. Yes,

1102
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: But then like that reminds me of the moment in

1103
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: Little Mermaid when Ariel has just gotten her legs for

1104
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: the first time and she's swimming to the surface and

1105
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: then she bursts through the surface and there's this shot

1106
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: she's like silhouetted by the sunlight, but it's like really

1107
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 1: sexualized where like wet hair whips around her whole body

1108
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: is rising. Yeah, I mean, god, I don't want to

1109
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: I mean, how can like all of my various eating

1110
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: disorders be traspect to dizny movies? Don't want to think

1111
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,959
Speaker 1: about it. But I don't think Mulan was a contributor.

1112
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: So um well, that's a good transition into talking about

1113
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: how masculinity is portrayed in this movie. I think that

1114
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: it's mostly good points that are brought up, but I

1115
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: do have some thoughts on it where I feel like

1116
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: Mulan's character in many ways is presented as a direct

1117
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 1: challenge to like Musho, who is a character that I'm like,

1118
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: I honestly am like on the rewatch, I'm like not

1119
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: very attached to because he is, like the joke is

1120
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: that he's very fixated on his own size, and the

1121
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: joke is that he's kind of misogynist. But we like

1122
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: him and like I kind of had it with that,

1123
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: and like whatever, Eddie Murphy's warming up for Donkey and

1124
01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: we salute him. But in general, I mean, I like

1125
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 1: those scenes where Mulan is presented with traditional masculinity, which

1126
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 1: is like sweaty and aggressive and mean, and she's kind

1127
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: of like you, I hate that I have to she

1128
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: resents that she has to participate in it. Uh. There's

1129
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: that scene where Musha is talking her through her first

1130
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: interaction as a man with a man, and it's like

1131
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: she punches him in the face and she slaps his

1132
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: ass and that's the whole interaction and it like sort

1133
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: of works and you're just like okay. But and then

1134
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: there's that other um. The other interaction that Mulan has

1135
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: that I feel like is in complete challenge to the

1136
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: masculinity presented by the soldiers is when they're singing a

1137
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 1: girl We're fighting for a song that I have problems

1138
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: with but where Mulan's only line in that song and

1139
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: she's like, how about a girl that has a brain

1140
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: that always speaks her mind? And everyone's like like fuck you.

1141
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 1: Like that was the moment where I was like female

1142
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 1: comic where it's like she's almost fit again, but then

1143
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,959
Speaker 1: she almost stands up for women and everyone's like, get

1144
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: out of because the lines before that, they're like, we

1145
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: want a woman who's really hot, who will you know,

1146
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: really congratulate me on my masculinity, my battle scars, I

1147
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: don't know, and then the one guy is like, I

1148
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 1: don't care what she looks like, but she has to

1149
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,439
Speaker 1: cook me meals all the time, which is a fat joke.

1150
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: Also on top of that, it's just that I've kind

1151
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 1: of conflicted with how the soldiers that aren't Lee Shane

1152
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: because I feel like he's in like romantic interest category.

1153
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 1: But the three soldiers that she becomes friends with, there's

1154
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: good things and there's bad things because by the end

1155
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: they realized they should never have underestimated paying Mulan and

1156
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 1: that a woman is capable of so much more than

1157
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: what they were singing about. But ultimately it's kind of

1158
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 1: I feel like, kind of falls into like the friendly

1159
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: misogynist trope where we hear them there's a lot of

1160
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 1: like constantly they're like, I want to woman, I am

1161
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: very like committed to this style of soldier misogyny that

1162
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: also feels very Western too. It's like very Western culture,

1163
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 1: but we also love them and it's so it's like

1164
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: they sort of learn a lesson at the end, but

1165
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 1: I feel like it doesn't go far enough because they

1166
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: are just like lovable misogynists. Ultimately, I think they're They're

1167
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: supposed redeeming scene is at the end in the that

1168
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: battle where Sheng You comes out and he's fighting Le

1169
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: Shang and then the emperor's gone and they actively decide

1170
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 1: to group around Mulan. And when they make that choice,

1171
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: that's the that's the that's the choice that's supposed to

1172
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: justify all the misogyny I think. And I it's like

1173
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: and I like that it it laid lands somewhere, but

1174
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: there's still a whole song about misogyny that thinking that

1175
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 1: we know by heart. Yeah, And it's like somebody so

1176
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: everything in a movie is intentional, nothing's accidental. Somebody was

1177
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: It's paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for that song.

1178
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 1: And then singers were also booked time separately to sing

1179
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: that song, and then sound engineers were also paid to

1180
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: miss that song. So when you think about how much

1181
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: work it takes to put us on into the movie,

1182
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: the question like does this misogyny the anthem have to

1183
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 1: be in this movie about like empowering a young girl

1184
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 1: who get three songs in this movie, and this is

1185
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: one of the reflection make a man out of you

1186
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: and girl they're trying at the beginning when there's the match.

1187
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 1: I mean, twenty of the songs are aggressively misogynists the

1188
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: first song, in the last song. So once again, I

1189
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: don't want to sound like I'm defending anything that's bad,

1190
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: but like I read that is one of the obstacles

1191
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 1: that like Mulan has to overcome, is like misogyny, and

1192
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 1: like that's why that song is there. Do we need

1193
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: it there? Do those lyrics so doesn't doesn't have to

1194
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: slap like to laugh. It's like they did too good

1195
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 1: of a job with the misogyny anthem, And I feel

1196
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 1: the same. I feel this. I feel the same way

1197
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: about like I used to tell a joke about this

1198
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 1: then and I was like I gotta grow up but

1199
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 1: one of the best songs in Hunchback of Notre Dame

1200
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: is the priest singing about how he wants to murder

1201
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 1: a woman if she won't fuck him, and it slaps.

1202
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 1: It's so it's such a good song and I know

1203
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: every word, and you're like, this can't Like the villain

1204
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,839
Speaker 1: songs are always the best songs. Maybe we could interpret

1205
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: this as the villain song. Maybe I feel the single song.

1206
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, I feel like that is kind

1207
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 1: of a great area. But like I feel like the

1208
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: song with the worst message shouldn't slap the hardest. I

1209
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 1: see your pointing. Yes, that's a new rule, putting it down.

1210
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: I do has to be like not the best song. Yeah,

1211
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: it should be like the collaboration between Phil Collins and Insane,

1212
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, like that should be the writing team behind this.

1213
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: Is that it has to be there. It has to

1214
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: be like mediocre and not memorable, because if it's good,

1215
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: then you'll know all the words and you'll, like, whether

1216
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: intentionally or not, sort of internalize it, you know. I do,

1217
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 1: like though, where like Mulan's relationship with those like three

1218
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: soldier friends of hers like lands, where they once they realize,

1219
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: oh she is worth trusting. They get on her side again.

1220
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 1: They dress and drag and then they like use the

1221
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 1: method that she used to um like shimmy up the

1222
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: poll during their training, so that gets called back to

1223
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: that's how they like get into like the emperor's like

1224
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 1: chambers so they can save him, like all that stuff.

1225
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 1: So I at least like how Mulan has allies by

1226
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: the end um, of course, none of them are women.

1227
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 1: She has no female friends in this story. That's that's

1228
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: the big failing of Well, no, I wouldn't call it

1229
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 1: a failing because the story wasn't sort of meant for this,

1230
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: that the myths and Mulan doesn't spread amongst young women

1231
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: and make young women want to like take places for

1232
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 1: their fathers and rewards, and that she Mulan remains an

1233
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: exceptional woman. And that's like, that's always like the thing

1234
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:16,640
Speaker 1: that the pick me trope, you know, like where you

1235
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: like pick me, I'm special, I'm not like these other girls,

1236
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: And unfortunately Mulan does fall into I'm not like other

1237
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 1: girl's territory. That's so that I mean, just you're saying that,

1238
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 1: it's just like because we've been making fun of the

1239
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: not like the other girl's trope for so long, but

1240
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: the way you just for I mean, like it does

1241
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: I feel like they're not like the other girl's trope.

1242
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: There isn't really a not like the other guy's trope.

1243
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 1: And I feel like that is a way to tell

1244
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:45,800
Speaker 1: women that you have to believe that you are the

1245
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: only person who can do this as a way to

1246
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: discourage you from encouraging other women to do the same

1247
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 1: thing that you're doing. Like it it does feel like

1248
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean even in in our common experience of comedy,

1249
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: like I was always fresh rated by like why are

1250
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: all the like it's so easy for male comics to

1251
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: make friends with each other. There's there seems to be

1252
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 1: really not a lot of intense competition among them, where

1253
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 1: when I was starting, I felt like female comics were

1254
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 1: felt to be in competition because there were just less

1255
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: spots for them, and so a defense tactic would be

1256
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: and not like the other girls, like well what I

1257
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: do is and what the other people do and it is.

1258
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like a patriarchal thing to be told,

1259
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 1: like you have to be so confident in yourself that

1260
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: you want to actively discourage other women women from doing

1261
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: the same thing I mean, And I've been thinking about

1262
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 1: this a lot lately, the idea of like not like

1263
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: the other girls, and and what does that mean? Because

1264
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: on one hand, like the way this movie partly frames

1265
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 1: that idea, is Mulan kind of rejecting femininity in a

1266
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 1: certain way, or at least the type of femininity that

1267
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:01,520
Speaker 1: is often forced on women by men in or by

1268
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: patriarchal standards in that might make her seem like not

1269
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:08,799
Speaker 1: one of the other girls, but that's in a way

1270
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:13,839
Speaker 1: that like, that's her choice. She's expressing her authentic self,

1271
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: you know, she's she might not be as feminine as

1272
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: other women or you know whatever. But to me, I

1273
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: didn't really have any problem with that the way it's

1274
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: at least that specific aspect of it is depicted in

1275
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: this movie, because um, the whole setup, like the whole

1276
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 1: first act of this movie is us being shown Mulan

1277
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: not fitting the mold of what's expected of a woman

1278
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 1: and a bride in her community and culture, like you

1279
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 1: know the world of this movie, Um, because what's expected

1280
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: of a woman is to be quiet and delicate and obedient,

1281
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:52,759
Speaker 1: and you know, these porcelain doll wives who will bear

1282
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: children and you know Mulan doesn't really want to participate

1283
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 1: in that. Um. There's whole song, the you know, the

1284
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 1: one that we forgot about, the You'll bring honor to us?

1285
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: All I think is the name of it. But you know,

1286
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,599
Speaker 1: the lyrics are things like a girl can bring honor

1287
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: to her family in one way by striking a good match.

1288
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: This could be the day men want girls with good taste, calm, obedient,

1289
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 1: who work fast paced, with good breeding in a tiny waist,

1290
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 1: sing a Cain. I can't. I don't know that they're there,

1291
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: I know, but I think that that song. I just

1292
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: have such conflicted feelings about it because I feel like

1293
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: that song is used to make every woman in the

1294
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 1: movie to look bad. Yes, Like why is that? I know?

1295
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 1: I feel like it comes from the same place. Yes,

1296
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: the only ally to move on in her life even

1297
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: remotely as her father. Right, Okay, yes, I agree with that.

1298
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is just the idea of like,

1299
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, being yourself and if yourself is a little like,

1300
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, tomboyish, Sure, if you don't want to be

1301
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 1: a wife, um, and like that's just like who you

1302
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: are and what you want and like as long as

1303
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 1: you're like not dismissing or judging other people who do

1304
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 1: want that, which I don't think isn't is Yeah, so

1305
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 1: I agree, there is like a conflicting message to be

1306
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:21,639
Speaker 1: had here because that whole setup serves to show like, yeah, Mulan,

1307
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 1: isn't this like obedient, submissive woman. She's strong, she's outspoken,

1308
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: she's smart, all that stuff. But it does end up

1309
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 1: painting all those women who do like want to go

1310
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: to the matchmaker and be matched with a husband. It

1311
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: makes them seem like, oh, what fools. It paints them

1312
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: very broadly. Yes, and to think about everything economically, because

1313
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: every decision that these characters make in life is tied

1314
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: to like how they're able to live. Is that the

1315
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 1: women are making these choices because they have to marry

1316
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 1: out of the family because the family can no longer

1317
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:54,840
Speaker 1: support them, you know. So it's like they literally are

1318
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: getting married to live. That is that That's something that's

1319
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: like in the first brush of this movie feels like

1320
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: a choice. What's really not a choice? If it's frustrating

1321
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: to see a movie of any I mean, and Mulan

1322
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: is not the only movie to do this, and it's

1323
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: not the worst offender of this, but to make it

1324
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 1: seems like this is what women truly deeply want because

1325
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,839
Speaker 1: they are petty and vapid as opposed to like literally

1326
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:18,799
Speaker 1: this is the only way in this historical context to survive,

1327
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 1: and there are complicated feelings that come with that. There

1328
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 1: is an opportunity to show that with her mother and

1329
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: her grandmother, but it just kind of ends up seeming

1330
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 1: like they're not exactly shrewish, but like rigid in that

1331
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 1: way of like. And I feel like, as a kid especially,

1332
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: you don't fully understand where that's coming from, and the

1333
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: movie doesn't really attempt to explain it to you know,

1334
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: I think it's it's almost too complicated for the movie

1335
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: to explain. But the place that comes from is does

1336
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,840
Speaker 1: feel shallow. I agree, Yeah, I don't know. I mean,

1337
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: it's like it's but ultimately Mulan is the like the

1338
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: best heroine in Disney Cannon up to this point, so

1339
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 1: it's like you have to give it its due and

1340
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,719
Speaker 1: you know what else, she is the baldest woman in charge.

1341
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,799
Speaker 1: I even though she doesn't like shaver head or anything,

1342
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 1: but she does cut her hair. That is like such

1343
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: a great afe that montage. I'm like I'm like, it

1344
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: does so much to like from it, And I'm like, oh,

1345
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: this like glorifies going to war. But I'm like, but

1346
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm crying, so I don't know what I feel. It's

1347
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: like Ultimately we do see her like making a gigantic

1348
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: sacrifice for the patriarchal figure in her life to go

1349
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: to war for them. But but you're also like, but

1350
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 1: then she realizes, like, I did this for myself, So

1351
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 1: I don't I love it? I mean, and the idea

1352
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,719
Speaker 1: of I've read a number of things that are about

1353
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 1: gender performativity theory as it pertains to this movie. One

1354
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:50,760
Speaker 1: great analysis I read was independently published by writer named

1355
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 1: Julianne Fung, who generally praises and argues that the main

1356
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:59,440
Speaker 1: theme of Mulan is a film is about gender performance.

1357
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,599
Speaker 1: She's she's using the hit She's using Judith Butler, you know,

1358
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 1: like she's but but saying that basically, one of the

1359
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:09,719
Speaker 1: things that makes remarkable is that she recognizes that gender

1360
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 1: is in many ways a performance, and she learns to

1361
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: perform it too, and and then by the end of

1362
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 1: the movie has like effectively convinced hyper masculine soldiers that

1363
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: gender is a performance to the point where they're willing

1364
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 1: to experiment with it themselves at the climax where they

1365
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 1: dressed and drag very confidently and are successful, and you

1366
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 1: can make an argument of like is a mockery being

1367
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:36,719
Speaker 1: made of them? Is it kind of played for laughs?

1368
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 1: I think in if some ways it is in the

1369
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,599
Speaker 1: same way that the climax of the Lion King Toman

1370
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 1: is wearing this little like grass skirt and he's like,

1371
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: it's not totally great because it's a little bit of joke,

1372
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 1: but it also like on paper, it's like these hyper

1373
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: masculine soldiers are willing to play around with gender performativity

1374
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 1: theory and like that doesn't happen a lot of that's

1375
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: cool and they're not punished for it. They're successful. Yeah,

1376
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: they they defeat the villain who's just advocating for socialized medicine. Um,

1377
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: that's because because he's sick, he's jaundice. Why is medicare

1378
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: for all? The villain? But I don't understand. Um. One

1379
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 1: of my favorite lines in the movie is when um

1380
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 1: Mulan like first shows up to like the boot camp

1381
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 1: and she's something happens where she like punches one of

1382
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 1: the guys to like try to fit in and like

1383
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 1: be you know man. But um, she says, you know

1384
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 1: how it is when you get those manly urges and

1385
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 1: you just got to kill something because like she is,

1386
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 1: it's like just you know, gender performance. The last thing

1387
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to say, just like something that I because

1388
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: I've been trying to sort of keep up on as

1389
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,639
Speaker 1: it is recording. None of us have seen the new

1390
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 1: Mulan movie. It's not out. I really hope that it's good.

1391
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: They're the other ones have not been, I mean, but

1392
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:01,240
Speaker 1: it's also like they've all made money. They it's very

1393
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:03,759
Speaker 1: possible that it will be fine and make a billion dollars,

1394
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:06,600
Speaker 1: which is also like whatever I'll see it. I have

1395
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:10,240
Speaker 1: yet to see a live action adaptation in theaters. Um,

1396
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 1: I've seen most of them and I have them, but

1397
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 1: like this one, I will see because Mulan means I

1398
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 1: think of this era the most to be out of

1399
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 1: any of them, but it is there is still it

1400
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,759
Speaker 1: seems like that persistent problem of this movie is trying

1401
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 1: to be a negotiation between the American and Chinese film industry.

1402
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: Is the two most powerful film industries on the planet,

1403
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 1: and from what I have read, about the plot of

1404
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 1: this movie. There have been narrative changes, but all of

1405
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,599
Speaker 1: them that I've read about, you're just kind of like,

1406
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 1: is that better or is it just different? Where in

1407
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 1: this adaptation the idea of arranged marriage is really really

1408
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 1: pushed when it's like this was never even a part

1409
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 1: of the source material, Like it's really frustrating, and it

1410
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 1: seems like what the live action adaptation is referring to

1411
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:08,480
Speaker 1: instead of the source material, which is more progressive than adaptation,

1412
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:14,840
Speaker 1: as it's referring to an earlier draft of adaptation that

1413
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:18,640
Speaker 1: was scrapped. Because what I found in my research was

1414
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 1: the first pitch of this movie is that she that

1415
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:29,520
Speaker 1: Mulan is betrothed to Lee Shang, and that through resentment

1416
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 1: of the person she's betrothed to, she's motivated to pose

1417
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:36,799
Speaker 1: as a man to get out of an arranged marriage,

1418
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 1: which is, however, you feel about it, very different from

1419
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 1: the source material, and that seems to be and I

1420
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: don't know what the exact but it seems like it's

1421
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: instead of it's just like, man, something written in ancient

1422
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: times is more progressive than what we're doing now. Just

1423
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 1: fucking Christ. There's an alternative version of her love interests,

1424
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: which is that she was. It's actually a really progressive

1425
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 1: vision of love, which is something I don't think about

1426
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 1: with ancient Chinese stories. But she's engaged. She's one of

1427
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:10,639
Speaker 1: the most beautiful women, most accomplished women in the village,

1428
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 1: and she's engaged to a man who appreciates her unconditionally,

1429
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 1: and even though they're absolutely in love with each other

1430
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 1: and he's like literally Mr Perfect, she breaks the engagement

1431
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:27,360
Speaker 1: to save her dad. It's like fully like seeded choices

1432
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 1: as an individual, So she breaks her perfect engagement with

1433
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: her perfect man to go save her dad. And then

1434
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 1: during the course of the battle, she meets her fiance again.

1435
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: And by this time, because her fiance is such an

1436
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 1: amazing man, he's the military strategist in this war, so

1437
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: she has to hide from him because she's like in

1438
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 1: full drag as a man. So in her sort of

1439
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 1: hidden agenda where she's on a different side of the

1440
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: mountain from him so that he can't out her. That's

1441
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 1: how she defeats the enemies, because she's in the right

1442
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:04,920
Speaker 1: place at the right time, which is also like, how

1443
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: do I feel it's more interesting than this idea that

1444
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 1: I just read. Wow, I'm like, I need to take

1445
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 1: a second on that one. The last thing that I

1446
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,760
Speaker 1: had to say was just a funny uh anecdote that

1447
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 1: just I think just like speaks to how rigid the

1448
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,640
Speaker 1: Disney formula was, especially at this time, where it's like

1449
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 1: female protagonist has to sing a song about what she

1450
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 1: wants at the beginning. She has an animal sidekick and

1451
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 1: a secondary animal sidekick. This is like well documented in

1452
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,480
Speaker 1: all of them. I think it's most clearly taken from Bocahunas,

1453
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: where you have Miko the Raccoon and Flit the bird.

1454
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: There's two and Mulan is a copy paste of that,

1455
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: where I guess that like like executives were pushing the

1456
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:49,600
Speaker 1: cricket so much. No one wanted the cricket. Everyone was like,

1457
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 1: the cricket doesn't do anything, cricket can't talk. Why is

1458
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 1: the cricket here? Everyone, including the two sis had white

1459
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 1: male directors, were like, we don't want the cricket. Uh.

1460
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 1: Director Barry Temple said quote the directors didn't want the

1461
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 1: cricket in the movie. A story department didn't want the

1462
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 1: cricket in the movie. The only people who wanted him

1463
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:09,720
Speaker 1: in the movie were Michael Eisner had to cricket when

1464
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 1: I was a chod. Then Harry Tumble says, I was

1465
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:16,559
Speaker 1: sitting meetings and they'd say, well, where's the cricket during

1466
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: all this, and someone would say, fuck the cricket. So

1467
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 1: just if you're wondering why the cricket is very spark

1468
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 1: because everyone was just like, we don't know what to

1469
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:29,720
Speaker 1: do with the cricket. You have Eddie Murphy, what more

1470
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:32,559
Speaker 1: do you want from us? I mean the cricket is

1471
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: lu shue sidekick, was your psychick. He's like a forced

1472
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 1: to your sidekick. Justice for the Cricket. He knows how

1473
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: to right. We see him like writing something on the

1474
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 1: lead can read. He can read and write. He's very educated. Yeah,

1475
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:49,840
Speaker 1: why can't we in Justice for the Cricket? No one

1476
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,040
Speaker 1: wanted going back to the live action thing. Um the

1477
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 1: live action Milan seems to have eliminated the villain of

1478
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 1: Sean you uh and added instead a witch. Um, the

1479
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:03,680
Speaker 1: hawk or the falcon or whatever type of bird that

1480
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 1: is that we see in the animated version is now

1481
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 1: a witch who can anamorphe into this bird. It needs

1482
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: to be seen whether this is a good idea. I mean,

1483
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:18,919
Speaker 1: it adds another female character, but I could be violence exactly.

1484
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 1: Goldie is amazing, so I'm here for it, good good um.

1485
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 1: And then Mulan seems to have a sister now, as

1486
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 1: referenced in one of the trailers, so I don't know

1487
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 1: hard to say how important that character will be, but

1488
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 1: they seem to be doing what all these live action

1489
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 1: Disney movies are doing, which is like add some female characters,

1490
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:43,479
Speaker 1: some female friends for you know, the women the female

1491
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 1: protagonist in the movie to like appease fans. Probably um well,

1492
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that we are seeing. And it's also

1493
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:57,760
Speaker 1: a female director of the new Mulan movie, although there's

1494
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: still she is a white lady from New zeal And.

1495
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:02,640
Speaker 1: So I feel like it kind of remains to be

1496
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 1: seen to how effective this adaptation will be. I feel

1497
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 1: like there is a lot of and Lyndsay once again,

1498
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 1: Queen Lindsay Ellis has done and excellent if kind of

1499
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:21,000
Speaker 1: like oh no to watch video essays about the kind

1500
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:24,640
Speaker 1: of woke ifying of these Disney reboots and how meaningful

1501
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:26,840
Speaker 1: is it and how much of it is motivated by

1502
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 1: money and just saying things that modern audience is wanting

1503
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 1: to hear, while still not ultimately like updating what their

1504
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:38,680
Speaker 1: values are. So we'll see, we'll see. I want to

1505
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 1: be I'm I'm cautiously optimistic. But we've but five of

1506
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 1: these movies have come out and none of them have

1507
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:49,599
Speaker 1: been good. I hope it's good. Um does a movie

1508
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 1: pass the Bechtel test? I don't think so. I actually

1509
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 1: forgot to pay attention once again. I think, yeah, the

1510
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:58,880
Speaker 1: grandma and the mom might have had a conversation about Mulan,

1511
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 1: which technically passes the Bechdel test, right, I think it depends.

1512
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:07,160
Speaker 1: I think on this on not like strictly like it

1513
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:10,559
Speaker 1: may pass once, but the context of what they're talking

1514
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: about is always marriage and marriage. I feel like it

1515
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 1: doesn't pass. I don't know. I was reading in the

1516
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 1: forums of like there's been more so than almost any

1517
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 1: other movie I've ever checked on this because I thought

1518
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:23,920
Speaker 1: at the end, I was like, I don't really know,

1519
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 1: and then I checked in the forums and people are

1520
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: back and forth. A lot of people are like, technically yes,

1521
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:33,000
Speaker 1: some people say that the female ancestors talk to each other,

1522
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 1: but we don't know whe their names are, so for

1523
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 1: us doesn't pass. I'm going to say that it for me,

1524
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't pass. And I think that that's a testament

1525
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 1: to mentor the fact that this is a movie where

1526
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:45,880
Speaker 1: we have a very strong female protagonist who has no

1527
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 1: women to talk to. Right because even the conversations between women,

1528
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 1: either whether it's you know, Milan and her mother or

1529
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:56,640
Speaker 1: grandmother or the matchmaker, the context, like we said, of

1530
01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 1: almost every one of those conversations, even though there might

1531
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 1: be like two line in exchanges where a man's name

1532
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:05,639
Speaker 1: isn't mentioned, the context of the entire conversation will still

1533
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 1: be like are you primped enough to be a bride?

1534
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:11,760
Speaker 1: Kind of thing to a man. I think that this

1535
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: is kind of a movie ultimately that I to my

1536
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 1: grave will defend Mulan. I love Mulan the person, but

1537
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,839
Speaker 1: I think in terms of how this movie portrays women,

1538
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 1: it ultimately is like the exceptional woman and not that

1539
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: women are exceptional. Yes, yes, indeed, that's always way of

1540
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 1: putting it. That's my pull quote. Also, that is that

1541
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 1: is what I'd like for you to put on a

1542
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 1: T shirt. Um, bye bye. Well, that brings us to

1543
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:45,799
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, serified nipples, basiness representation of women. Um.

1544
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:49,160
Speaker 1: I mean, all things considered, it does a pretty good job,

1545
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:53,640
Speaker 1: at least compared to other comparable Disney Renaissance movies, it is,

1546
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, the most empowering one to date. And then

1547
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, then Molanna came up along where well, but

1548
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Molanna came along almost twenty years later, and Molana isn't perfect,

1549
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 1: which contrary to our critique. Um, But like I said,

1550
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:12,639
Speaker 1: I wish I had had this movie to grow up with.

1551
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 1: Um Instead, I like latched onto a Little Mermaid and

1552
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 1: we already talked about how many problems that movie has. Um,

1553
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,640
Speaker 1: I think I'll give it a three. Um, I'm that

1554
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 1: might be a little too generous or maybe not generous enough.

1555
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 1: Sometimes I really miss fire on the new Nipple rating.

1556
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a hard metric, but you know,

1557
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 1: I think the way that it subverts a lot of

1558
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:37,559
Speaker 1: the tropes, specifically of Disney movies, while it also adheres

1559
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 1: to a lot of kind of the you know, problematic

1560
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: things that we've already discussed. Yeah, I think I'll stick

1561
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 1: with a three. Ummulan is a character is terrific. I

1562
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 1: hope this live action reboot does her even more justice.

1563
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 1: Um remains to be seen, But three nipples, Um, I

1564
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 1: will give one of them to shang Um and his

1565
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 1: visit bowl nipples. Um, I will give well and then

1566
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:07,360
Speaker 1: I'll just give the other two to Milan. I'm gonna

1567
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:11,040
Speaker 1: know three and a half on this. I'm also very

1568
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:13,960
Speaker 1: biased towards this movie because it's like one of those

1569
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 1: movies that I have seen a million times and it

1570
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 1: feels very like in my DNA of just how much

1571
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 1: I love it. But I feel like for its time,

1572
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 1: this is as progressive as children's media was getting on

1573
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 1: a mass scale. I think that like young just young

1574
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:34,000
Speaker 1: people in general seeing this movie like got a view

1575
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:36,839
Speaker 1: of a female protagonist that they really had never gotten

1576
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 1: on a mass scale prior to this point. She is

1577
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 1: never a damsel in distress. She is very motivated. She

1578
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 1: is amazing. I feel like the main fault of this

1579
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: movie is not letting that inspire the women around her

1580
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:53,840
Speaker 1: and making her. I feel like it almost is kind

1581
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:56,439
Speaker 1: of oppressive to isolate her as the exception to the

1582
01:30:56,520 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 1: rule rather than someone who could inspire the women around her. Um.

1583
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:03,240
Speaker 1: And plus the other thing I mean, I think the

1584
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 1: way that the Huns are portrayed is like flat out racist. Um,

1585
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 1: the fact that this movie was directed biasis at white

1586
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,960
Speaker 1: men and majority written by them, and the more you

1587
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:17,599
Speaker 1: learn about them, the less good it gets. Um, there's

1588
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: a lot of classic Disney faults going on here, but

1589
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 1: I think that they, in spite of a lot of stuff,

1590
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 1: they managed to pull up. I think maybe they're most

1591
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 1: progressive movie to date at this time, and at least

1592
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: a lot of them. A lot of the cast are

1593
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 1: voiced by Asian actors, a lot, but not all of them.

1594
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 1: Not all of them, but more than I expected, honestly

1595
01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 1: when I went through The Soldiers, right, yes, so you're like, uh,

1596
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Eddie Murphy's warming up for Donkey whatever. Like,

1597
01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:58,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff in this movie that's of

1598
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 1: its time, such as the Steve You Wonder ninety degrees

1599
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 1: collapse couldn't have happened in any year. But ultimately I

1600
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 1: think it's net positive. I would happily show this movie

1601
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,799
Speaker 1: to a young person today. Um, I think it super

1602
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:15,679
Speaker 1: holds up and it's kind of I don't know it.

1603
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:20,559
Speaker 1: It definitely changed my perspectives at the time, and it's great.

1604
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 1: I love it. Three and a half nips to Go

1605
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 1: to Mulan one and a half ago photo realistically to

1606
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 1: Lei Shang so I think I will do three nips

1607
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:38,760
Speaker 1: Mulan to to Mulan one to Lei Shang being portrayed

1608
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 1: as a leading man Asian love interest, which is pretty

1609
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 1: rare in all movies across all American like filmmaking history. Um,

1610
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 1: nipple really taken away for just a weird mash up

1611
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 1: of Asia they presented. Sure, I feel like they could

1612
01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 1: have definitely done more research, just been a little bit

1613
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 1: more specific. Just um, I don't know, asked one Chinese

1614
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 1: person other than the one Chinese like woman of Chinese

1615
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:11,240
Speaker 1: descent who worked on this movie. Yeah, or in the

1616
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,960
Speaker 1: on the writing to well otherwise thoroughly enjoyable, really love

1617
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:18,559
Speaker 1: this movie. Yeah, sure, well seta thank you so much

1618
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:22,639
Speaker 1: for being here, having me, having you. Um, what would

1619
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:26,479
Speaker 1: you like to plug? Where can people follow you? I am?

1620
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:28,400
Speaker 1: I am working on a lot of things, but none

1621
01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:31,519
Speaker 1: of them are pluggable, So you just follow me on

1622
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:36,240
Speaker 1: my Twitter at Slowbear s l O B E A R. Nice, amazing,