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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they happen individualism, the patriarchy? Zef In

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hey, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: Hey Caitlin, pick a card, any card, and look closely

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Speaker 1: at it. No, wait, you're looking too closely because you

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Speaker 1: thought the magic was happening right here, but it's actually

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Speaker 1: happening over there. I was mis directing you. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: should we kiss? Yeah? You're so horny right now for me?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know for some reason, I am Okay,

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Speaker 1: quick anecdote at the very top of the episode, This

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Speaker 1: happened to me in college where I was at a bar.

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Speaker 1: There's a magician doing like close up card tricks, and

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Speaker 1: there was a mentalist and they were there together doing illusions.

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Speaker 1: I love this story. I haven't heard this one in

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Speaker 1: a while. Oh I've told it to you. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if i've ever have. I said it

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, so I don't think. So here's a

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Speaker 1: please make a cannon. Okay. So they're like doing tricks.

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Speaker 1: I go over to them and I'm like, wow, this

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Speaker 1: is cool. I love magic, and they're like, wow, a

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Speaker 1: woman is talking to us. So they did a bunch

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Speaker 1: of tricks and I was awestruck. And then I said,

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Speaker 1: to neither of them in particular, but also kind of

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Speaker 1: both of them, do you want to go on a

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Speaker 1: date with me sometime? And they were like, uh huh.

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Speaker 1: So we arranged a date. Although I was mostly talking

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Speaker 1: to the magician over the mentalist guy. So I was

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Speaker 1: talking to the magician. We're corresponding, texting setting up the date.

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Speaker 1: I show up to the date they are both there,

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Speaker 1: because again I did not ask. I directed my question

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Speaker 1: into the ether, not at a specific person. I think

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Speaker 1: you're being too hard on yourself in this situation. Well,

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Speaker 1: I should not both show up, but I also I'm

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Speaker 1: fine that they both did. And actually, in an ideal world,

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Speaker 1: I would have just a harem of multiple partners following

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Speaker 1: me around. Sure, I'm not saying that it's a bad

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Speaker 1: thing to happen, but it is something that you would

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Speaker 1: want to check in advance before. Yes, but I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't fault myself nor the other people involved that

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Speaker 1: they both showed up and it was actually awesome and fine.

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Speaker 1: And then the whole date. They just did more tricks,

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Speaker 1: which again was fine. That's kind of why I wanted

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Speaker 1: to hang out with them more. And then the Magician

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Speaker 1: was like, Hey, we should hang out again some time,

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Speaker 1: and then I kind of bailed and then we remained

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Speaker 1: like friendly. And I think he lives in l A now.

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Speaker 1: But if today he was like, hey, do you want

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Speaker 1: to catch up sometime, I'd be like sure. So that's

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Speaker 1: my awesome story. And today's movie is about now you

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Speaker 1: see me. What if you're like, in today we're doing

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Speaker 1: The god Father and it had nothing to do with anything.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I just have been wanting to get this

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Speaker 1: off my chest for five years. That's and that's what

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Speaker 1: you call it, Mr Dirict, and that's a Mr Direct.

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Speaker 1: Jesse Eisenberg geez, oh my god. The star of this

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Speaker 1: movie is Jesse Eisenberg's haircut. Like the most thing I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen in my life where I felt it in

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Speaker 1: my entire body when they revealed the haircut, where we're like, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a haircut that didn't exist out of outside of

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Speaker 1: that year, and people didn't even like it when it

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Speaker 1: was there. It wasn't good at the time. Okay, So yes,

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Speaker 1: that's all the context you need to know going into

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Speaker 1: this episode. I think that was a perfect introduction. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bechtel Cast. I was gonna say, poof so wow.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna mine was gonna be much quicker, But

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Speaker 1: I don't think as rich of a text. I mean Africa,

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Speaker 1: Debra letter Rip exactly quote that song from Aladdin. I

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Speaker 1: was WoT to say that. They didn't say that. Jesse

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Speaker 1: Eisenberg didn't say that. No, no, that's not magician Cannon

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Speaker 1: because Jessie Asberg didn't say it in this movie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's the now you See Me episode of the Vitel Cast.

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Speaker 1: This is our show where we take a look at

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Speaker 1: your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens. My name's

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Speaker 1: Jamie Lofton. I feel bad because we have like a

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Speaker 1: legitimately extremely talented magician as our guest today and we

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Speaker 1: visibly know nothing. We don't know what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: We're absolutely blowing it, and so we've brought in an

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Speaker 1: expert who we've seen performed before. She's fucking amazing, and

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Speaker 1: please tearris to shreds at any time. We welcome it. Psychologically,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be via magic just psychologically destroy us.

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Speaker 1: It's not hard. Um, so this is the Vectel cast. Uh, Kaitlin,

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Speaker 1: what is the Vectel test? Though I'd don't remember, well,

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Speaker 1: let me jog your memory. I did hypnotize you and

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Speaker 1: made you forget what the Bechtel test was. So my bad.

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Speaker 1: I know, I think I'm playing Beethoven. I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 1: like Common, who's in this movie for like two minutes,

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Speaker 1: and then he keeps disip bearing for an hour and

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Speaker 1: then he comes back and you're like, office are Common?

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Speaker 1: Poor Common? He is too good for this. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: with I mean, you know, okay. The Bechtel test is

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Speaker 1: a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes

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Speaker 1: known as the Bechtel Wallace test. There are many versions

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Speaker 1: of the test. The one that we use requires that

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Speaker 1: two people of a marginalized gender have names, they talk

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Speaker 1: to each other about something other than a man for

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Speaker 1: two lines of dialogue, and ideally it's a narratively meaningful conversation.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot. I mean, look, we'll get into it. Uh. Tricky, tricky, tricky. Um,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, we were covering you see me. We have

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Speaker 1: a wonderful guest with us. I'm so excited to have her.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's get her on so she can destroy

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Speaker 1: us like we deserve. She's a magician host of She's

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Speaker 1: Am podcast. It's Kala Dresser. Hey everyone, Uh, I will

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Speaker 1: not destroy you because all of my energy will go

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Speaker 1: into destroying this movie. So just know you're safe for today.

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Speaker 1: But I also really appreciate that you hit every magician

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Speaker 1: trope in the first thirty seconds of this episode, so

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Speaker 1: I applaud you. Honestly, it was like a feat. I

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Speaker 1: really impressed. We are problematic when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: representation of magicians in media. That's fine, honestly. So what's

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Speaker 1: the movie? Uh, you're fine. I'm so excited to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. I oh my gosh, there are so many

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Speaker 1: I will say. When the twist of the movie was

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Speaker 1: revealed at the very end, the twist that makes no

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Speaker 1: sense and only introduces more questions, I gasped. I didn't

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Speaker 1: see it coming. I was shocked, bowled over. Well, you

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Speaker 1: don't see it coming because it doesn't make least logical

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Speaker 1: thing to happen in the movie. It's first shadowed by nothing,

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Speaker 1: and it's first shadowed by a bunch of shots that

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Speaker 1: are like Mark Ruffalo posing like he's Mr Robot, He's

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Speaker 1: like Rammy Malick and Mr Robot in all of the

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Speaker 1: foreshadowing shots where it's just like lone guy in a hoodie.

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's sir, that role is taken. I

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Speaker 1: love that. You were like, that's the least logical thing

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Speaker 1: in the entire movie. When literally someone floated above an

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Speaker 1: audience in a bubble like that says a lot. It

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Speaker 1: does call into question like is there actual like wizard

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Speaker 1: style supernatural magic happening sometimes or is it are they

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Speaker 1: just using illusion? It's there's a lot of questions I have.

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Speaker 1: There has the right. So there's it's a really interesting

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Speaker 1: conversation because a lot of magicians also and to also

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Speaker 1: be in the skepticism world. And so you have people

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Speaker 1: like Amazing Randy, who spent a large portion of his

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Speaker 1: career trying to take down Uri Geller, who's a magician

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Speaker 1: who claims he has actual superpowers and because he has

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Speaker 1: actual superpowers, he can bend spoons, and so, uh, he

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Speaker 1: would that that's his entire life. Is he's just claiming

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Speaker 1: he has some sort of unnatural power being thing and

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Speaker 1: a lot of magicians, there's a really fine line, especially

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Speaker 1: when you get into the mentalism realm and kind of

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Speaker 1: the like influencing and all of that. It starts to

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Speaker 1: get into a little bit of a fine line of

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Speaker 1: that you have to be careful of to make sure

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Speaker 1: the audience knows that you're not a psychic. And there

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Speaker 1: are many mentalists that after shows get approached and get

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Speaker 1: asked like, hey, can you contact my dead sister? Like

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Speaker 1: you know. So it does tell a really really careful,

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Speaker 1: very thin line between doing magic for entertainment and being

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Speaker 1: what I would consider more of a swindler, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of those people will use this what what I know, Like,

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Speaker 1: I know how it's being done. If I go see

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Speaker 1: a psychic, I know how it's being done. Am I

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Speaker 1: going to say that that doesn't exist in the world.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to discount it. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: unrealistic possibility, but I know a lot of how that

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Speaker 1: is done. And because of that, there's that line where

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Speaker 1: you can really easy step over it when you start

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Speaker 1: taking people's money because you're going to do something that

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Speaker 1: they're hoping for. And so it is really really it's

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Speaker 1: a really big topic of conversation and magic on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis. Kayla, I need to interview you for the

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Speaker 1: other podcast I'm working on. It's all about spiritualism. Okay,

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Speaker 1: oh cool, Oh that's so cool. Wow. Let's we'll put

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Speaker 1: a pin in that on Mike. But I have so

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Speaker 1: many questions for you. Okay, okay, great? Um? So, Kayla,

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Speaker 1: what is your history your relationship with the movie or

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Speaker 1: maybe the franchise, even because there's a stew Well and

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Speaker 1: then there's I think a third movie in development or

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Speaker 1: in production. They're going to do another one, I believe.

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Speaker 1: So wow, I saw it on IMDb. Now you see three? What? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we're focusing on the first now you see me?

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Speaker 1: What is your relationship to that film? So obviously, as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, I'm a magician. That's my career, and so

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Speaker 1: whatever movie gets made about your career, you want to

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Speaker 1: know how your career is being portrayed in a movie

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Speaker 1: that's going to be seen by a lot of people, right,

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Speaker 1: And so it's really interesting this movie is from and

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Speaker 1: I'm still today getting asked about that movie. And even

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Speaker 1: just like two weeks ago someone mentioned like, oh have

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Speaker 1: you seen that movie? Like what do you think of

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Speaker 1: it because I thought it was really cool. And when

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Speaker 1: the movie came out, and this was not due to

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Speaker 1: the movie, but it just is like how people think.

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Speaker 1: Before the movie came out, I got a call once

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Speaker 1: they wanted me to in a show play the piano

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Speaker 1: and then float the piano while I was playing it,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, cool, So that's gonna like we're

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Speaker 1: talking a starting price here of twenty grand because not

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Speaker 1: only is it my fee, but you're going to have

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Speaker 1: to have that built by an illusion designer from scratch

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Speaker 1: because that does not yet as of today exist And

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Speaker 1: they were like, we were hoping you could do it

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Speaker 1: for two hundred dollars and it was like, you're cute.

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Speaker 1: I'm not, that's not possible. Do you think I'm a

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Speaker 1: cartoon character? Like but her Her actual reaction to that

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Speaker 1: was I thought you could just do magic. It's like, oh, okay.

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Speaker 1: So there's always this line that that when people call

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Speaker 1: it you asking to hire you for something, there's a

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Speaker 1: concern that there's actual superpower things going on here. And

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Speaker 1: then after the movie came out, I can't tell you

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Speaker 1: how many calls I got asking if I could float

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Speaker 1: into bubble what For like a year, really yeah, just constantly.

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Speaker 1: It was Yeah, you were wondering, like we're not a

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Speaker 1: big budget but wondering if you could do that thing

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Speaker 1: in the movie. And it's like, so, I would like

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Speaker 1: to now explain to you what c G I is

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Speaker 1: and not particularly good c G I either. That's very accurate.

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Speaker 1: There was a tour called then now you see Me

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Speaker 1: tour that a friend of mine did work on, and

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Speaker 1: they did I believe a floating bubble allusion, but you

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Speaker 1: better believe that took a long long time and lots

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Speaker 1: of money to put together. So that stuff's not like

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Speaker 1: if you're doing it in front of an audience. Even

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Speaker 1: like Copperfield's flying illusion from the nineties, like that that

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Speaker 1: was amazing, but if you saw it live, there were

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Speaker 1: things that you're like, oh, that's maybe a bit wonky,

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Speaker 1: Like I wasn't I was. I was expecting that to

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Speaker 1: look like he was flying. And so there are people

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Speaker 1: really think like with magic, it's really easy, and it's

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Speaker 1: not at all, And when a movie like this comes out,

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Speaker 1: it just sort of pushes the narrative that magic super easy,

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Speaker 1: you could just do it, and it's like, no, I've

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Speaker 1: practiced my whole life to be able to do this

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Speaker 1: one card trick. Come on. So that is it's still

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Speaker 1: something that all these years later, nearly ten years later,

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Speaker 1: is something that magicians will still be having to answer

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Speaker 1: that question of can we do the stuff in the movie.

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Speaker 1: Caitlin and I can relate with that because people ask

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Speaker 1: us about the movie Joker all the time. They're like,

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Speaker 1: is Joker reflective of the stand up comedians experience? And

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Speaker 1: the answer is yes. Our life is a billion dollar

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Speaker 1: movie and where the scariest people to ever live. Um.

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Speaker 1: I also I'm very curious um for listeners and just

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Speaker 1: for us to know a little bit more about how

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Speaker 1: you built a career in magic as well. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a good question. I don't really know, to be completely honest,

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Speaker 1: to start to happen. Uh So I started doing magic

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Speaker 1: when I was seven years old, and magic is a

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Speaker 1: really cool way of satisfying a lot of my brain.

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Speaker 1: Half of my brain really like science and math and

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Speaker 1: logic and dogs. I also really love dogs, and you're

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Speaker 1: fine minds literally next to me, So the more dogs,

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Speaker 1: the better. I But it also I really love making

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Speaker 1: people laugh and entertaining people, and magic was it was

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Speaker 1: my ability to be able to do both of those things,

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Speaker 1: and so I did it for my whole life. I

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Speaker 1: went off to college, had no intention of doing magic

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Speaker 1: as a career, graduated college, got a job, hated it,

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Speaker 1: dove into magic, and I started out as a bar magician,

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Speaker 1: which I would bartend and then when everybody had a drink,

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Speaker 1: I would then do like a ten minute show. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's a really good way to get a thick skin

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Speaker 1: because everyone is drinking and they're loud, and they're blunts

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Speaker 1: and you have to deal with that, usually without a microphone,

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Speaker 1: and so you're just like, okay, this is this is

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Speaker 1: a good way to work out being a better performer.

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Speaker 1: And then I moved I'm from Connecticut and I was

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Speaker 1: living in Boston when I went full time, and then

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Speaker 1: moved out to Vegas and then eventually Los Angeles. And

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Speaker 1: magic and is that there's two parts to magic. One

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Speaker 1: is that you have to run a bit business, and

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Speaker 1: the other is that you have to be the product.

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Speaker 1: And so you have you are the product. You're selling

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Speaker 1: yourself and your show, which means you have to also

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Speaker 1: be constantly working on bettering the product, but then also

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Speaker 1: figure out how to get work and run a business.

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Speaker 1: So it's a there's a lot of trial and error.

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Speaker 1: Magic is very much a mentorship community, so a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have been in this for a while will

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Speaker 1: help you out, uh, and you can ask questions. People

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Speaker 1: write books and do lectures. So it's cool because magicians

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Speaker 1: often help other magicians, which is really nice. And I

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Speaker 1: definitely would have no idea what I was doing if

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Speaker 1: other people didn't help me many steps along the way.

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Speaker 1: Even now with me, like I'll call my friend and

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Speaker 1: be like I don't I don't know how to fix this,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about it for a while and then

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Speaker 1: it'll be fixed. That's a really nice part of it.

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Speaker 1: And living in Los Angeles, the magic community is really

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Speaker 1: big and strong, so it's really cool to be able

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Speaker 1: to like absorb into that and learn from other magicians.

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Speaker 1: That's also cool. And we were we were lucky enough

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Speaker 1: to see you perform at the Magic Castle a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago. Yeah that was fun, that was a blast,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, we highly recommend your podcast because I mean,

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Speaker 1: I truly everything I know about magic I know from

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Speaker 1: your show and from like watching you perform. So thank

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Speaker 1: you for being here, thank you for sharing that. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited and thanks for coming to that. That was

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Speaker 1: really it was really cool that we got to connect

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Speaker 1: because obviously I listened to your podcast all the time,

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Speaker 1: so I was like, Oh, this is so cool, let's

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Speaker 1: have dinner. And so it was really fun and I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad it was. We still talk about it truly

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Speaker 1: all the time. It was very good. That's awesome. This

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Speaker 1: is a special night, U Caitlyn. What's your history with

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Speaker 1: this movie? I saw this movie not in theaters, but

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Speaker 1: I saw it probably a year or two after it

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Speaker 1: came out. I also, I am pretty sure I saw

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Speaker 1: the sequel, but I have absolutely no memory of it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know what happens in it, So maybe

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Speaker 1: I didn't see it. I don't know, but I definitely

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Speaker 1: I saw the first one, and I remember there being

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Speaker 1: a big twist ending, but I didn't remember what it was.

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Speaker 1: So when I was because it doesn't make sense, I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, why is that the twist? But um

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Speaker 1: it was. It was just such a joy. I definitely

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Speaker 1: haven't seen the second movie, but I do remember there

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Speaker 1: being like a not insignificant conversation because it did reach

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Speaker 1: me someone who didn't see any of the movies. But

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Speaker 1: there was not an insignificant conversation about why they named

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Speaker 1: the second movie, Now You See Me Too. I think

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of upset that of why it

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Speaker 1: wasn't called now You Don't, which is the intuitive name

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Speaker 1: for the second movie, but they instead they didn't even

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Speaker 1: call it now to See Me. They called it now

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Speaker 1: you See Me Too, or and extremely and now you

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Speaker 1: See Me movie. This is this, I mean, I would

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Speaker 1: say even more so than the original. Now You See

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Speaker 1: Me one is an extremely goofy movie. It is I

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Speaker 1: never know what's happening. I don't like will just keep

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Speaker 1: stating each other's feelings about each other, but you never

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Speaker 1: actually see the fact that it's true. It's officer common.

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Speaker 1: You're like, what is going on here? And then it

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Speaker 1: is very I'm so excited to hear your insight, Kleb,

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Speaker 1: because for me, for a movie that like really harps

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Speaker 1: on like explaining how the illusion is accomplished, every explanation

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Speaker 1: left me more confused than when I just watched it. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh no, there's a I still don't understand

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Speaker 1: how their air duct works. Anyways, I'd never seen this

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Speaker 1: movie before, and I was waiting to watch this movie

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Speaker 1: because I knew this is this episode has been a

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Speaker 1: long time coming, and so I've been waiting to watch it,

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Speaker 1: and it didn't disappoint in terms of I heard it

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Speaker 1: was really confusing and that the haircuts were very weird,

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Speaker 1: and in that way, I felt like I fully got

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Speaker 1: what I showed up for because the haircut were just

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Speaker 1: next level and the logic, the internal logic of the movie,

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Speaker 1: the emotional logic of the movie, the characters. I had

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Speaker 1: no idea what was going on for ninety percent of

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Speaker 1: the time, but I was I was invested. I was

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Speaker 1: shocked that the Dave Franco magic battle. I was like,

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Speaker 1: what is this? This is wild? Um, So I'm very

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about out attend no notes that that scene.

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Speaker 1: I did not see that scene coming. And then that

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Speaker 1: was the point where I was like, is this is that?

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Speaker 1: How do you do that? But that's why I mean,

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Speaker 1: but I can't tell, Like, I'm very excited to hear

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Speaker 1: professional magicians insight because of like, is any of this possible?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I have some insight on that fight

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Speaker 1: scene oddly enough, and I just in general in the

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Speaker 1: entire movie. But this is also very important for anyone

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Speaker 1: who this might appeal to. But I cannot stress enough

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Speaker 1: that if you're going to have some sort of skill

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Speaker 1: in a movie that you're making, you need to pay

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Speaker 1: for a consultant or like I would say, cast people

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Speaker 1: who can do magic and acting. I've been able. I've

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Speaker 1: been very lucky enough to consult on a couple of

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Speaker 1: different projects, and one of which was a movie that

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Speaker 1: started Riha Pearlman, and so I got to work with

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Speaker 1: Ria for for like two months teaching her magic. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, she's a gem, but also

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Speaker 1: her dedication to making sure she could do magic enough,

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Speaker 1: like when you see her do magic in the movie,

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Speaker 1: she's doing it. There's only like one time that there's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a edit, but it's barely she's

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Speaker 1: actually doing the magic. And that's because she was dedicated

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Speaker 1: as an actor to being able to do it. Now,

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Speaker 1: James James Frinko, he does do the backbond, the card manipulation,

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Speaker 1: and he I believe he does actually produce those card fans,

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Speaker 1: which was like, oh, that actually takes a lot of practice.

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Speaker 1: That's a few months of practice. Oddly enough, just that

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Speaker 1: one producing two card fans in each hand. Maybe it

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Speaker 1: was edited. I don't know, but he did the move

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Speaker 1: exactly like how he held his hands up and I

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Speaker 1: went your back coming cards and boom he had cards.

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, okay, I believe, I believe you

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Speaker 1: had cards and that's awesome. And so I appreciate that

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Speaker 1: that was probably the reality. But the amount of times

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Speaker 1: people don't hire a magic consultant. When you watch it

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Speaker 1: it ends up like this, You're like, there's so much

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Speaker 1: more you could have known about if you just asked

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Speaker 1: the right person. Were there particular things I mean, and

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Speaker 1: we'll get into the recap in a second, but were

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Speaker 1: there particular things that really stood out to you? Because

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Speaker 1: I know that, like there are certain things that happened

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Speaker 1: in this movie where you're like, well that just you

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Speaker 1: can't just be in a bubble Illa Fisher. But were

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Speaker 1: there certain things that really stuck out to you of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that was a severe like the actor clearly didn't know

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Speaker 1: how that is supposed to look or be executed. Pretty

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Speaker 1: much anything. Jesse Eisenberg touches fire. I'm not afraid to

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Speaker 1: say it. Well, so I saw him before the movie

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Speaker 1: came out. He was on Letterman and he did it's

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Speaker 1: a move that's called the snap Change. It's a really

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Speaker 1: popular social media video for magicians to make. It's basically

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Speaker 1: holding a card up and then you in a sense,

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Speaker 1: snapped the card and the card changes. But because he's

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Speaker 1: not a magician, he didn't know how to talk to

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Speaker 1: the camera people, and they filmed it from the back,

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Speaker 1: and so only Letterman saw magic. No one else saw magic.

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Speaker 1: Everyone else saw how it was done, and he does it,

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Speaker 1: and he does it in the trailer, and it's also

404
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Speaker 1: something that takes practice. But if you actually watch closely,

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Speaker 1: you can see how it's done, and it's it's things

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Speaker 1: like that that's like, oh man, I just wish which

407
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Speaker 1: was a little bit more attention to detail. Obviously there's

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Speaker 1: lots of c G I and all of that, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's the close up magic. For me, that

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Speaker 1: is what could have been because all the mentalism is

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Speaker 1: fairly doable. All the pickpocketing is very doable. The escape

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Speaker 1: that Island Fisher does in the very beginning has been done.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no piranhas, but like that idea of going

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Speaker 1: in a water tank and then showing up in the

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Speaker 1: back of the audience, that's done all the time. It's

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Speaker 1: the close up magic to me that was like, oh man,

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Speaker 1: you had to work hard and post to make that

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Speaker 1: look good. By the way, almost direly drowned doing that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: her chain got stuck when they were filming. So again

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Speaker 1: it's like, I'm sure if they had a proper consultant,

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Speaker 1: that probably would not have happened. Were there Do we

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Speaker 1: know if there were magic consultants on this movie? There was.

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Speaker 1: Blake Voy was the magic consultant on the movie. I

424
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: don't know his extended involvement. I know that he taught

425
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: a lot of the back palming or the card the

426
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 1: card moves to the magicians. He's also the magician who

427
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: taught um oh names aunt man how to backpalm the

428
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: card thank you. He taught Paul Rudd how to backpalm

429
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: the business card that shows up in Marvel movies. So

430
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: Blake voit was the magic consultant. But I don't believe

431
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: like you need a magic consultant on the script. Also,

432
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: like a consultant should be going through the script, combing

433
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: through and going this is a bad idea. Let me

434
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: give you eighteen other ideas you can pull from, and

435
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: then going from there. My guests would be that person

436
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: did not exist. I know Copperfield had a big hand

437
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: in it, but I think only in certain elements. So

438
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: I don't believe there was a good enough involvement from

439
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: any consultant. You can kind of just tell got it. Okay,

440
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: that's good to know. I mean with certain things. I

441
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: worked as a comedy consultant before, and sometimes it's just

442
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: like if you're not there all the time, then it's

443
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: like certain things can just slip through. And then because

444
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: of how production works, you're like, oh, I guess that

445
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: that's just there. Now, Okay, we'll see what happens all

446
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: the time. It happens all the time, brutal. Let's take

447
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: a quick break and then we will come back for

448
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: the recap, and we're back. We're back today, shall we

449
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: shall we get into the meet and potatoes of the wait.

450
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: I should have said, right when you said we're back,

451
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: you're really digging a hole. I couldn't. I should have said,

452
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: and now you see me again? Where can this is

453
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: a podcast? No one ever sees us. And that's in

454
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: a way the illusion. And now you hear me, Now

455
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: you hear me. Now you don't because you turned out

456
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: the podcast. Okay, I'm in a weird mood. Okay, this

457
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: is great. Okay, so what happened? Good luck? This. I

458
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: do not envy you having to recap this. This is

459
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: I did my best. I trust you. So we meet

460
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: several people at the very beginning, one by one. First

461
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: is Daniel that's Jesse Eisenberg. He's doing a card trick

462
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: for a big group of people. It's a big spectacle.

463
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: We meet Merritt Woody Harrelston's character. He's doing hypnosis and

464
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: mentalism for this couple who's on vacation or something. We

465
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: meet Jack that's Dave Franco. He does a neo from

466
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: the matrix, bending a spoon with his mind trick, which

467
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: no one calls attention to. Then pickpockets a guy with

468
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: his sleight of hand skills. We finally meet Henley that's

469
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: Isla Fisher's character. She does a get out of handcuffs

470
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: while in a tank of water trick. It seems to

471
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: go horribly wrong with flesh eating piranhas, but it turns

472
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: out it was all part of the illusion and she's

473
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: actually fine. In all of these scenes, there is some

474
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: mysterious hooded figure lurking around, who presumably leaves behind an

475
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: invitation for these four people, Daniel, Merritt, Henley, and Jack

476
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: all show up to the address on the invitation. They

477
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: go into the apartment where there are some tricks and puzzles,

478
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: and then they uncover these digital blueprints for what turns

479
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: out to be an elaborate magic show. It's funny because

480
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: you can tell it is. It is like fully CG

481
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: and so it's just like Jesse Eisenberg and Woody Harrelson

482
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: looking at nothing and being like, well, this trick is

483
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: gonna be wid and like it's like hackers style shot. Also,

484
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: there's one shot in this movie where you're like, wait,

485
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: Isola Fishers a hacker? And then it never comes back.

486
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: She's in front of like forty computers and she's like

487
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I was like you can do that,

488
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: Like there didn't realize, but don't worry, Like anything's in

489
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: this movie. It's not really relevant and it won't come back, right.

490
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: So then we cut to one year later, these four

491
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: people have a show together in Vegas called The Four Horsemen.

492
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: In the audience of this show is Morgan Freeman, who

493
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: is trying to film the show. Also, Morgan Freeman almost

494
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: in every scene of this movie is like with some woman,

495
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: we never learn who she is. I think she does

496
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: have a name at one point, but I didn't feel

497
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: like to find out. Yeah, it's he says something like

498
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: thank you and says her name, but she never speaks

499
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: correct the whole movie. I felt bad. I was like, stop,

500
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope that you know she was like

501
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: paid well, but I was like, you're wasting this woman's

502
00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: time if you give her a line or don't. My god, anyway,

503
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: we're also about to meet Michael Caine's character. He also

504
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: has a young woman as his assistant question Mark. Her

505
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: name is Jasmine. I think what you learn in exactly

506
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: one scene. She similarly has no narrative significance, no lines

507
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: of dialogue, oh nothing. Incredibly bizarre, to the point where

508
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, we're large chunks of this movie cut because

509
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't understand why those characters are there if

510
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: you're going to give them nothing to do right real fast.

511
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: I want to just mention one scene and how accurate

512
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: it is, because in in the scene where Jesse Eisenberg

513
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: is going to hook up with the fan girl and

514
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: he then sees a card and it's like, I am

515
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: now more interested in this magic thing. I cannot tell

516
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: you the accuracy. No, there is a picture. I'll have

517
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: to find it for you and send it to you

518
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: so you can see it. It's a picture of four

519
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: magicians sitting around a table we call jamming, so working out,

520
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: like playing with magic and showing each other moves and

521
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: stuff at a strip club. And it's there is a

522
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: naked woman and they are back to her playing with

523
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: a deck of cards. It is so you, I had

524
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: to say in that moment, I went, Okay, whoever, someone

525
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: someone nailed that. That was like probably the most accurate

526
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: thing of the entire movie about magic is it's like, yeah,

527
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: magicians are way more into props and magic things than

528
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: they are, but this like sexual Yeah, yeah it was.

529
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: It was brilliant. Loved it the way Jesse Eisenberg treats

530
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: that poor woman made my nose bleed. I was my god. Yeah. Yeah,

531
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: So at least there's some accuracy in this movie. That's nice. Yeah, Okay,

532
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: So they have the show together in Vegas. We meet

533
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman briefly. We also meet they call him like

534
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: their benefactor. I think it's like the show's financier Arthur

535
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: Tressler played by Michael Caine, who's like an insurance executive

536
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: the Jillionaire, Like, okay, is it explained? Did I miss something?

537
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: Why is he interested in magic? And how did he he?

538
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: I feel like it's revealed very very late that he

539
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: is like a nine figure insurance scammer scion. I just

540
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: assumed he was like a generic rich guy, which Michael

541
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: Caine plays all the time very well in spite of

542
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: his horrific politics, but like it's something that he does

543
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: pretty often. But when they made it really specific very

544
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: late in the game, like wait, how did this insurance

545
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: guy get interested? Like how did he get connected to

546
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: these magicians? And they don't really tell you anyways, I

547
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: have no idea. Okay, well, as long as as long

548
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: as I didn't miss anything. There's so many things where

549
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, did I lose a scene? Like did they

550
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: drop a scene on the floor? Or because I don't

551
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: know what's happening, I feel like I've thought about it,

552
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, logically, you know Vegas show to rent

553
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: a theater like that, it's probably like six eight grand

554
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: to night because you have to rent it, like you

555
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: what we call four walling, right, So You've have a

556
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: four wall of space in Vegas. But in order to

557
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: do that, you have to have money, so you might

558
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: have a benefactor. Obviously they hooked up with this benefactor

559
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: because the blueprints told them too. And I've put way

560
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: more thought into the script than what they did than

561
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: the person who wrote it did. That's helpful to hear that,

562
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: because I was just like, how is any of this

563
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: very expensive stuff happening and how is it worth it

564
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: for anyone involved? And I just never really figured it out. Yeah,

565
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: Mark Ruffalo, spoiler alert something something, Mark Ruffalo. Yes, Okay.

566
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: So for the final trick of the show, they announced

567
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: that they're going to rob a bank. They pick someone

568
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: seemingly at random from the audience. It's a Frenchman named Etienne.

569
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: They seemingly teleport him into the vault of his bank

570
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: in Paris, France ever heard of it via this teleportation

571
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 1: machine slash helmet, and then they teleport the stacks of

572
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: cash in Paris back to Vegas and all of the

573
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: cash comes raining down onto the audience. So it seems

574
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: that they have successfully robbed this Parisian bank. The next day,

575
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: Daniel Merritt, Jack and Henley are arrested and agent Dylan

576
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: Rhodes Mark Ruffalo. Oh my god, I couldn't have told

577
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: you that character's name. With a gun to my head.

578
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: I was like, Mark Ruffalo, that's all I had. Like there,

579
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: I did, not Dylan Rhodes. Why bother. So Dylan Rhodes

580
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: from the FBI is on the case, assigned to him

581
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: by his like superior played by Common who well, as

582
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Jamie is in three scenes coming and going.

583
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: So Dylan Rhodes is on the case to figure out

584
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: how they stole the money from the bank. Also assigned

585
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: to the case is someone an agent sent from Interpool

586
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: from France named Alma played by Melanie laurent Is. I'm

587
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: guessing how maybe you say your name? It was pretty

588
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: It was really pretty good who. Rhodes is reluctant to

589
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: work with. The two of them interrogate Daniel and Merritt,

590
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: who don't give up any information, and Daniel is all like,

591
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: we're going to be so many steps ahead of you

592
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: and you're not even gonna know it, and then he

593
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: throws his handcuffs onto Rhodes and we're like woo. And

594
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: then Rhodes has to let them go because there's no

595
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: real evidence against the magicians, but he's like, they're going

596
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: to do this again, and it seems like this was

597
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: the first of three big shows that the Four Horsemen

598
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: will perform. It is it's so funny, Like it's so

599
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: they're so rude in the interrogation and this is like,

600
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: obviously this is an anti podcast, but I'm just like,

601
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: what do they think is going to happen to them?

602
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: They're so confident that they're not gonna get arrested. And

603
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: also it's so like early on you're like, oh, this

604
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: movie only cares about Woody Harrelson and Jesse Eisenberg. Correct

605
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: the two actors who are I mean, I love Woody Harrelson.

606
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: I don't love this character at all. This character fucking sucks,

607
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: especially because he leads by saying extremely transphobic, fucked up stuff,

608
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: and basically his first scene, well, no, it's the misogynist scene,

609
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: and then the transphobic scene, and then he sexually harasses

610
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: Isisla Fisher for the rest of the movie. And then

611
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: you don't get any scene of isle of Fisher's police interrogation,

612
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: but you do get five hundred scenes of her getting

613
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: harassed sexually harassed by Woody Harrelson. That's spil hated it anyways. Okay,

614
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: so then we meet Thaddius Bradley. That's Morgan Freeman's character's name,

615
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: good Lord. He is a former magician who now debunks

616
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 1: magicians and exposes how their tricks are done. Rhodes meets

617
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: with him. Thaddius explains misdirection. He explains how they didn't

618
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: actually rob the bank, at least not the way it

619
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: seems they did it. During the show, Rhodes learns that

620
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 1: the teleportation machine just drops you into a room below

621
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: the stage that looks like a bank vault, and Thaddius

622
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 1: explains how the Four Horsemen specifically targeted this French guy

623
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: at the enne, how they mind tricked him into going

624
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: to their show, and how the way they mind tried

625
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: him into going to their show is so expensive. I

626
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: know that this is like it's a movie. I get it,

627
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: but there had to have been a smarter screenwriting way

628
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: to explain how they got him there, other than they

629
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: all went to Paris and we're like jogging around being

630
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: like snap, crackle pop, and now he's in Vegas and

631
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: you're just like, as someone who knows basically nothing, about magic.

632
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: Never in a million years when I believe that, unless

633
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: you're telling me they're fucking wizards, which I don't think

634
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: we're supposed to think they are. There is an element

635
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: of magic that is all about influencing your audience, and

636
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: so their elements were like in theory, I could get

637
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: you with some practice. I'm not that good at it,

638
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: but I could get you to choose something very specifically

639
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: that I wanted you to choose like that, that's an

640
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: element of it. However, would that then last months later

641
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: to the show and vacation you planned? No? Right now,

642
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: we're getting him too, like weird hypnosis mind control territory,

643
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: which is not a thing magicians have the ability to do.

644
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: And so it's a very strange, like I get them

645
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: when Woody Harrison like kind of palms his chest and

646
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: that hypnotizes him. That's and I don't know much about hypnosis,

647
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: but from what I know, that's an element of kind

648
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: of using that. But that means that, like how long

649
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: were they Woody Harrison would have had to like sit

650
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: down with this guy and do what he did to

651
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 1: the people that the couple on vacation at the beginning.

652
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: This is not a realistic. And I also they don't

653
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: explain misdirection correctly, which was just a massive pet peef

654
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: of mine. Misdirection is not covering up. So that allusion

655
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: where the guy gets smushed and in theory he's in

656
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,479
Speaker 1: Paris is actually a playoff of a real illusion. It's

657
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: Michael Carbonaro did it on the Carbonaro effect, but it

658
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: was originally done by a magician named Doug Henning. I

659
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: can go on. But it's really cool where it looks

660
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: like you're smushing a person or an object down and

661
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: then you have this clear disk where you see like

662
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: these they were wearing, or Michael Carbonard did it with

663
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: dogs and puppies, so you see like the dog fur

664
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: and then you put the disk back in and it

665
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: opens back up and the dog or the person is

666
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: back inside of the machine. So it's really cool, but

667
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: that is not misdirection. So wait, Morgan Freeman a famous

668
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: truth teller, why to us God? Also like, it's just

669
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: this movie is so messy. Yeah, there's a lot of

670
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,479
Speaker 1: problematic people. See. Okay, that's very good to know because

671
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: I was because of the amount of time this movie takes.

672
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 1: I would say like a good third of the movie

673
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: is just explaining what happens in other parts of the movie.

674
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: And I was very curious as to like how much

675
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: of this was rooted in any reality in the magic world.

676
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: Some of it I felt like obviously wasn't. But the

677
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: more specifics, it's like, I don't know, Like, so that's

678
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: not it. So they got the first thing wrong. It's

679
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: what you're saying. They also get in the interrogations scene

680
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: where Jesse Eisenberg says, first rule of magic always be

681
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: the smartest person in the room, which is not the

682
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: first rule. It's not even on the rules of magic.

683
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: That's not a thing like, no one, you don't have

684
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: to We're just like we're playing with cards and coins.

685
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: It's great. No, that's never the thing. The first rule

686
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: magic is don't tell anybody how the trick is done,

687
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: which obviously Morgan Freeman doesn't know. It seems like what

688
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: happened was that the writers, when this is my guests,

689
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: the writers went, you guys know that magician, the masked

690
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: magician who revealed a bunch of magic in the nineties, Well,

691
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: have Morgan Freeman play him and like explained how magic

692
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: is done. Do you know anything about magic? No? But

693
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 1: I know some words, and they just put it into

694
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: a movie, and that's where we get, oh, yeah, here's

695
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: some misdirection. No no, no, that's a trapdoor. But it's not.

696
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: There's no misdirection used in that moment at all. Like

697
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: just the explanations of stuff were like you had a

698
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: magician and you could have been like, hey, re this,

699
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: how accurate is it? And I imagine that magician would

700
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: have gone, not, nope, let me fix it, and then

701
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 1: it would have been better. But I don't know. Here

702
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: we are, we're only still in the first Also, um, okay,

703
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: we'll yeah. So Saddius is explaining to Rhodes how the

704
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: trick was probably done, how the magicians had already stolen

705
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: the cash from the bank prior to the show, and

706
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: they just made it seem like the money was being

707
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: stolen from Paris and teleported back to Vegas. Saddius also

708
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: tells Rhodes about someone named Lionel Shrike, which I keep

709
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 1: hearing a Shrek Yes, of course, Wow, great, someone killed

710
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: Shrek and I'm supposed to want to watch this movie

711
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: fucking unbelievable, And then that means canonically that Mark Ruffalo

712
00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: spoiler alert is Shrek son well, if he's the Hulk Green,

713
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: Now I like this movie. Now I'm a fan, and

714
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: I'm back, and I actually make the great perfect story

715
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: ever told. It's the story about how the Hulk is

716
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: Shrek son. Wow, that all gets answered in Now you

717
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: see Me too, so right, and then furthermore, now you

718
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: three me yeah, oh my gosh. Okay, So we learned

719
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: about Lionel Shrike, a magician who Thaddius had exposed in

720
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: the seventies. Shrike, then I'm sorry. Shrek tried to then

721
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: stage a comeback, but it didn't work. He is thought

722
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: to have drowned in the East River while performing a trick,

723
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: although his body was never found. But then it turns

724
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: out he actually did die during that trick, so why

725
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 1: were they like and then we didn't find his body anyway.

726
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: Then it's time for the Four Horsemen's next show in

727
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: New Orleans, Rhodes, and all follow the magicians there. They

728
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: speculate that there's possibly an unknown fifth horseman who is

729
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: orchestrating things behind the scenes. Also, Alma has been reading

730
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: about magic and she's reading about this guy named Shrike.

731
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 1: I wrote in my notes at this point it's all

732
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: very shriky in similar to Shreky in Okay, so I'm

733
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: I am. We were on the same page where you're like,

734
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: that sounds a little bit too much like Shrek in

735
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, where Shrek was had been one of

736
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: our most popular celebrities for over a decade. Correct. Yeah,

737
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: the screenwriter one of many fumbles, and Alma is all like,

738
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, magic is pretty cool. I like, I

739
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: like believing in it. And then Rhodes this whole thing

740
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: is magic is silly and it's all fake. I am skeptical.

741
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: I am Mark Ruffle. Uh. Then at the second show

742
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: in New Orleans, Daniel Merritt, Henley and Jack do a

743
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: bunch of tricks, and then the big finale at the

744
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 1: end is them redistributing Arthur Trestler. That's Michael Caine, Arthur

745
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: Trustler's on forty million dollars to the people of the audience.

746
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: This is one of the more fun elements of the

747
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: movie where it's like the parts where they're redistributing like nasty,

748
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: disgusting wealth. You're like, that's I wish I didn't hate

749
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: these characters so much because they're doing something that I

750
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: fully support, but they're so unlikable, I know. So the

751
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 1: whole thing there is that the members of the audience

752
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: were all insured by Arthur Trestler's insurance company, which screwed

753
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: the people in the audience, completely screwed them over after

754
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: Hurricane Katrina. So they get the money that was owed

755
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 1: to them right out of Arthur Trustler's like personal bank account.

756
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: The show ends, Rhodes and Alma chase after the magicians

757
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: because they've just committed this big theft. They managed to

758
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: get away. Arthur Tressler is all piste that his money

759
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: was stolen, and he goes to Thaddius to be like, hey,

760
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: help me expose these four horsemen and bring them down.

761
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: But Rhodes thinks that Thaddius might be in on the

762
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: whole thing. He thinks that maybe he's the fifth horseman.

763
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: So we're like Red Herring much, which didn't make sense. Um.

764
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: Then Rhodes and Alma are able to track and locate

765
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: the magicians in New York. There we are there for

766
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: their last big show. So Rhodes and Almah go to

767
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: New York. They find the apartment where the magicians are staying.

768
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: There's a big chase. Three of the horsemen get away,

769
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: but then there's this magic fight between Roads and jack

770
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: a k Dave Franco, who's really I'm so excited to

771
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: hear your your insight on that, Kail, because I did

772
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: not see that scene coming, and I was like, like

773
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: it was he was so ready for that in a

774
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: way I wasn't prepared for as an audience. Ever, is

775
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: now a good time for me to go into that

776
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: because I would be happy too. It's very brief, to

777
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: be completely honest, Go ahead, if you if I were

778
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: to say, give me the three things you know about

779
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: how magic is done, you would probably say mirrors, magnets,

780
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: and hiding things behind your hand. And that's all they had.

781
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: That was it. That was the entire fight. It was

782
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: like this is so this This scene right here showed

783
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: no magician was asked about anything because clearly it was

784
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: just the three things everyone understands magic is. There were

785
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: so many mirrors? Why were there so many? Why no magicians?

786
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: I barely have mirrors in my home. I have enough

787
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 1: that I can go do, I look fine, and then

788
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: I can leave. It's not a thing we just have

789
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: lying around that are these massive Like no, doesn't come

790
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: stop it and then it's like oh yeah, whoom boom cards. Now,

791
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: I will say the accuracy of cards being thrown and

792
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: it hurting is very accurate. Very So when I was

793
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: a kid, I went to my very first magic convention

794
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: and we all threw cards. We tried to get it

795
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: into the chandelier in the lobby. Um, we got in

796
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: trouble but whatever. And when we were throwing cards, Uh,

797
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: they accidentally hit this person and she had to go

798
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: to the hospital because it hit her eye, like it

799
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: was bad. So this does happen. There was another person

800
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: she also got hit, but I think it just caught

801
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: her face. But there was someone who had to go

802
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: to the hospital. Um, so this is actually it hurts.

803
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: I've been hit too, but not tear like I'm not injured,

804
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: but that is painful. If someone can throw cards really well,

805
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: it can actually hurt. You probably have heard of Ricky

806
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: j who can throw who could throw cards into the

807
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 1: outside skin of a watermelon like fool pierce it like amazing,

808
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: So that's probably the most like yeah, okay see, but

809
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: also even that, that's like a typical magician thing, being

810
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: able to throw cards and it like hit things with accuracy.

811
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 1: So it's just a lot of really typical. The only

812
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: thing that was missing is him going abracadabra bitch as

813
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: he jumped out the window. Like that's the only thing

814
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: they could have added that. I would have been like, yeah, there,

815
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: that's the fourth thing you missed is some weird magic phrase.

816
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just everything everybody thinks about magic, and so

817
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: it's there was just no creativity put into that at all.

818
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: There should have been an illusion there should like there

819
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: could have been a suitcase he goes in and comes

820
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: out of another one, Like there's tons of stuff you

821
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: could have done it with that right nothing, which I

822
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: feel like it must be even more frustrating because it

823
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: seems like is what is supposed to be cool about

824
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: the movie, but then the one time they do it,

825
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: they do the most boring thing and then it just

826
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: goes back to not making sense. Uh yeah, yeah. It

827
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: just I feel like what they were a lot of

828
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: people will be like, oh, we just didn't want to

829
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: make it too out there, like we wanted it for

830
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: people to We wanted people to know what was going on,

831
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: and it's like it's a fight scene you watched John Wick,

832
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't make any sense, but it's happening. Most

833
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: fight scenes defy the laws of physics. So if you

834
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: also have magic in your movie, like yeah, play with that.

835
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: Take advantage of that. Right. There was so much they

836
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: could have done, and like I think I had like

837
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: twenty ideas just watching it and was like, Okay, I

838
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: mean you should write a movie. Now you three Me

839
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: hired Kayla, save the franchise done? Now You three Me

840
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: is iconic, very weird title for a movie, but I'm

841
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 1: a big fan. I'm a big fan. It's great. Okay.

842
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: So there's this fight between Roads and Jack. Jack seems

843
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: to be safeguarding this stack of papers. There is then

844
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: a high speed car chase in which Jack crashes the

845
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 1: car he's in explodes, and he seems to be very dead.

846
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: The papers get rescued, though, and they turn out to

847
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 1: be information about a company called Elk Corn or something.

848
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: I lost the thread for a few minutes both times

849
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: I watched the movie. At this point. I don't know

850
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: what these papers were. I don't know what Elk Horn is.

851
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about that. That was so confusing

852
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: to me. Okay, good much less why Dave Franco would

853
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: die trying to keep that secret, not sure what he

854
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: would stand to gain unclear, But the FBI thinks that

855
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: the Horseman's next target is a safe full of half

856
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: a billion dollars, which gets loaded into a truck, so

857
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: Rhads and his people chase after it, but the safe

858
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: turns out to be full of balloon animals. Meanwhile, the

859
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: Four Horsemen's third and final show is happening in Queens,

860
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: which is just to show where the horsemen jump off

861
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: a roof and then explode into money, which is kind

862
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: of fun, but I'm like, yeah, it was weird that

863
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: they really risked it all to just be like by

864
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: If I had been an audience member in that show,

865
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: I would be so disappointed because it lasted all of

866
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: five minutes and was not satisfying. So they explode into money.

867
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: It turns out to be fake money, though, because the

868
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: Horseman used the real money to frame Saddi Us and

869
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: make it seem like he stole the money. So then

870
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,959
Speaker 1: Rhodes pays a visit to Thaddius in a jail cell.

871
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: Thaddius explains how they must have stolen the real safe,

872
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: how Jack didn't actually die in the crash, how they

873
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,919
Speaker 1: did a bunch of illusions and switch ruse, I'm sure

874
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: that's perfect terminology. Can any nuts any nuts for us? No? Yep,

875
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: a nail in it. Meanwhile, in Central Park, Daniel Henley

876
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 1: and Merritt reunite with Jack, who is in fact still alive,

877
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: and they await the Fifth Horsemen to reveal themselves, and

878
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: it turns out to be Dot Dot Dot Dylan Rhodes

879
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: a k a. Mark Ruffalo Baffle playing the longest con

880
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: I've ever heard of. Okay, you do a con so

881
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 1: long you've become a police detective for like twenty years.

882
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you talking about? And also we're

883
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: led to believe that he would have been the one

884
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: bank rolling this three part show, like this whole thing.

885
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: He would have had to pay for the magicians to

886
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 1: fly to Paris to mind trick Et t Enn, like

887
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: he can afford that and like a massive fortune. But

888
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, I mean, first of all, whatever, I

889
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: mean the there's multiple government agency there's like multi level

890
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: copaganda going on in this movie. But like on your

891
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: average police detective salary, how is any of this possible?

892
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: I don't know? And yet cops are still paid too much.

893
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: But there's all played far too much for a job

894
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: that shouldn't exist, but like, but they're not paid like

895
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: MGM Vegas five nights a week money, Like it's just well,

896
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: it's so baffling. What about the Eye, Like you know that,

897
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: you know that club that completely makes sense? What about

898
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: their budget? Because maybe they have a big budget that

899
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: we just don't know about. So I couldn't even figure

900
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: out how to work this into the recap. But there's

901
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 1: also this like secret society of magicians called the IE.

902
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: They're vaguely using tarot cards for reasons. You're like, so

903
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: apparently Mark Ruffalo's character is like one of the members

904
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: of the I and he is trying to induct the

905
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: four Horsemen. I don't know. I couldn't make sense of it, really,

906
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 1: so I left it out of the recap. But maybe, yeah,

907
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: maybe the I was bankrolling this whole thing. Point is

908
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: Mark Ruffalo, in a big twist, turns out to be

909
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 1: the mastermind of the whole thing because Lionel Shrek was

910
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: his father and he is avenging his father's death because

911
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 1: all movies are about fathers and sons. Of course, yeah,

912
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: famously they are, but also I would love a movie

913
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: about Shrek's son avenging Shrek's death. That is the one

914
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: time I will majorly make an exception for my annoyance

915
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: at the fathers and sons troupe Hey struck five at

916
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: the beginning, and Shrek Jr. Has to avenge Shrek Sr's death. Yeah,

917
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: I would love that fingers crossed. Um. Okay, So the

918
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: reason that Mark Ruffalo was like targeting these people specifically.

919
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:12,280
Speaker 1: It turns out that the ensurer who denied Shrek's family's

920
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,240
Speaker 1: claim was Tesla a k a. Michael Caine. The bank

921
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: is related in a way that I didn't understand even

922
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: a little bit. And then the company Elkhorn started as

923
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: a safe manufacturer and they made the shoddy safe that

924
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: Shrike wasn't able to escape from, and that's why he

925
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: died doing that trick. So that's why Mark Ruffalo is

926
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: targeting these people specifically to avenge his father's death and

927
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: get back at these people. So that's the story. Let's

928
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: take another break and we will come back to discuss

929
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 1: and we're back. Okay, Kayla, is there anything that jumps

930
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: out to you right away of like, well this is

931
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: weird or wrong, or like, is there anything that you

932
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: wanted to kick off with? Oh? Boy, if not, that's fine,

933
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: We've got plenty to go through my notes. Obviously, Like,

934
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: obviously the representation of magic is not great in the movie,

935
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: and we've discussed that, but also the representation of women

936
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: is pretty horrible. It's also very bad. So I know

937
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 1: you talk a lot about this on your podcast, Kayla.

938
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: How as far as the representation of women as magicians

939
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,439
Speaker 1: just as a career, it's not the most common thing.

940
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: When magicians are represented in media, women are often excluded

941
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: women who are magicians. You've told us stories about how

942
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: there's just so much sexism in the industry. This movie

943
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: does include a woman as a magician, but no, also no,

944
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 1: because you don't see her doing magic ever. Really she's

945
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 1: I felt like she was, and I that my feeling

946
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: on I just felt like it's so I feel like

947
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: this also like specifically happens to Isola Fish or a lot,

948
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: and she's very talented and she's always like I like

949
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: Cassidy's roles where she's just underutilized in a way that

950
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: is very unfair to her talent. But even like, it

951
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: just felt like they fucking arranged this group like it

952
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: was the fucking Chucky Cheese band. They're like, okay, three guys.

953
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: Well there's this guy, and then there's this guy, and

954
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: then there's the goofy guy, and then there's girl. No

955
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: further personality traits. She's just sexually harassed, and we're told

956
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 1: that she's interested in the main guy for reasons that

957
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: are unclear and honestly baffling given the way he talks

958
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: to her. That's very true. So funny enough. I actually

959
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: used to be in a tour. I was in a

960
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: tour for four years exactly like this, where there were

961
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: five magicians. I was the woman. But I will say

962
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: this tour, the producer and the magicians would go out

963
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: of their way on a regular basis to make sure

964
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: I could never be portrayed as an assistant. And the

965
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: best example I can give, besides the fact that like

966
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: I had my own stage time for twenty five minutes

967
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: by myself and not like doing magic without anybody else

968
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: being a part of it. That's great, But I remember specifically,

969
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: we were taking promo pictures and we were standing on

970
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: this illusion and I just like put my my arm

971
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: on one of the magicians, just like because the show

972
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: is very about our camaraderie, so I would put my

973
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: arm on that magician, and he goes, I really like

974
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: that idea. However, I'm very concerned by the fact that

975
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: you're doing that that some people will think you're my assistant.

976
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa, I didn't even think about

977
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: that great idea. And because just the idea that I

978
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: would like put my arm on his shoulder, someone could

979
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: see that and go, she's clearly the assistant because she's

980
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: attached to the male magician. So that is the level

981
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: at which we have to think in order for people

982
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: to not automatically think the woman's the assistant, because that's

983
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,959
Speaker 1: the knowledge people have right now. They all they also

984
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: don't always think like, oh wow, I'm seeing a woman

985
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: perform magic. That's cool. That must be rare. Not all

986
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: audiences go to that length, but they definitely will assume

987
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: that if there are two magicians performing together, one presents

988
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: is a male, one presents is a female, that the

989
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: woman and must be the assistant. And there's a lot

990
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: of work you have to do a lot of the

991
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: duos in magic. They have to do a lot of

992
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: work to make sure that she is seen as a

993
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: magician and in this partnership. So when you look at

994
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: this movie. I make the argument that the only time

995
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: she actually does magic is in her solo show. She

996
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: even references how she was Jesse Eisenberg's assistant, and a

997
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: lot of women who are solo performers now start off

998
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: as assist and so that's actually really common. But then

999
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: going into the show, we see her carry the bunny,

1000
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: she puts the bunny in the box, right, who does

1001
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: the magic? Jesse Eisenberg waves the wand who blows up

1002
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: the bubble that she then levitates in It's the same

1003
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: as who shows off the table and moves their hands

1004
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: as the woman gets levitated the magician. She's not seen

1005
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: as the magician. She's the prop that's being levitated. It's

1006
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: the same exact thing we have on Shasanne. We created

1007
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: our own little test, which is called the table test,

1008
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: which is can a woman be replaced by a table

1009
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: with wheels? And if the answer is yes, she's not

1010
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: a magician. She's an assistant. The script doesn't matter because

1011
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: you could put the script with anybody. But if all

1012
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: she does is the same that a table does, she's

1013
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: the assistant. There is no point in which she actually

1014
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: could not be replaced by a table and narratively who

1015
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: like not just her role as a magician who is

1016
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: not doing magic in the movie. I believe that Whatdy

1017
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: Harrelson's character with sexually harass a table where like so

1018
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: as we pointed out, like in that interrogation scene towards

1019
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: the beginning, there's a lot of focus in the movie

1020
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: placed on the two horsemen, Daniel and Merit, where Henley

1021
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: and Jack often fall into the background, which makes some

1022
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: sense from a screenwriting point of view. You can't have

1023
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: like tons of focus on like a bazillion different characters.

1024
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: There's often not enough real estate for that. But the

1025
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: fact that like Henley is one of the ones who

1026
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: falls by the wayside and doesn't get to do much

1027
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: again narratively speaking, and then even Jack, who is kind

1028
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: of right along is with her in that sense of

1029
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: like he's not given much focus. But then he is

1030
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: sort of towards the end where he's the one in

1031
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: that fight scene, he's the one in that car chase

1032
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,959
Speaker 1: to think that he dies. He definitely ends up having

1033
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: more narrative impact then, I mean, it's like totally definitely

1034
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: by the end, like he's I mean, it's it's still dissonant,

1035
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: but like you're like, oh, Jack took on I mean

1036
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: it's like not like I preferred that you would think

1037
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: that Isla Fisher died like that's not but but it's

1038
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: like he definitely took on more narrative meaning as it

1039
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: went down, because went on right, because then he's the

1040
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: one in the flashback who had broken into the safe

1041
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: and he steals that half a billion dollars and yeah,

1042
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: so he's doing way more than Henley, and certainly Daniel

1043
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: and Merritt are doing way more. So she just ends

1044
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: up being the one character in these four horsemen who

1045
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 1: basically doesn't get to do anything and kind of you

1046
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: could write her out of the script and it would

1047
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: not change the story and it really at all it

1048
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: felt to me like of the many dissonant but as

1049
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: it like pertends to her character, it felt like there

1050
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: was kind of this like empty movie feminism gesture made

1051
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie, because she says in

1052
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: her first scene with Jesse Eisenberg, like, I'm not your

1053
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: assistant anymore. You can't boss me around, like and it's

1054
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: kind of this like girl but like and it's like,

1055
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't become an empty girl power moment.

1056
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: If the story then follows through on that. But that

1057
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: gesture at the beginning was completely hollow because, like you

1058
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: were saying, Kalis, she's completely treated like an assistant for

1059
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: basically the remainder of the movie, and so it's like, well,

1060
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: why did they even bother to have her say like

1061
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: leave me alone, I'm not your assistant anymore when that

1062
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: is very much how the movie views and treats her

1063
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: so and also she has no problem with it ever

1064
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: again and in the same way where it's like this

1065
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: is movie ship that is really like, I find it

1066
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: so frustrating, especially because it's like, oh, that has to

1067
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: suck for the actor who has to do that too.

1068
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: For like Aila fisher Um when she's being sexually harassed

1069
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: by the Woody Harrelson character, which is all the time,

1070
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: she'll like, there should be like a term for what

1071
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: this is in movies, where it's like she pushes back once,

1072
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: but by the end of the conversation she's like, ha, ha,

1073
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: you're you're wild you that's our Woody, you know, Like

1074
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: at the beginning she's like, oh, I guess i'll when

1075
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: he basically says like, well, I know you're in love

1076
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: with Jesse Eisenberg, which is the only way that we're

1077
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: told that she's in love with Jesse Eisenberg is by

1078
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson claiming it's true. I don't see it in

1079
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: the story or the characters at all, because is it

1080
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: even trapped shaming her in spite of the fact that

1081
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: she's very thin, like does all of this wild fucked

1082
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 1: up stuff. He treats her like shit. But Woody Harrelson's like,

1083
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: y'all love each other, and they're like, well, I guess

1084
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: we do, and like, which is weird in itself. But

1085
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: then he's like, oh, well, you're a tight like you're

1086
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 1: you're a tightly corked, like you think funked up, like

1087
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: you need to fuck me. Like he's saying, I'll fuck you,

1088
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: don't worry, And she's like, oh well, I like she

1089
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: she deflects, which kind of like, I mean, she could

1090
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: have thrown something at his head, but in that situation,

1091
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, she's trying to brush him off, like

1092
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: leave me alone, fuck you. But then by the end

1093
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: of the conversation, the script, which is written by three men,

1094
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: has her be like ha ha, that's how it ends.

1095
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: She goes t he she goes he over and over,

1096
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 1: and it's and and then we're led to believe it's

1097
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: not like a subtext moment of like she's doing that

1098
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: because she doesn't know what else to do. I think

1099
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: we're when we see that, we're supposed to think it's

1100
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: funny and the character is fine with it, right, because

1101
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we're all familiar with the horror of being

1102
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: harassed by someone, but you work with that person or

1103
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: you know there's some circumstance that it makes it really

1104
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: difficult to push back on it because you know your

1105
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: job is at steak, or you know something's at steak,

1106
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: but the movie doesn't acknowledge that in any way. And yeah,

1107
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: like you said, Jimmy just like presents her being harassed

1108
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: as something that actually she might kind of secretly like

1109
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. And at the very least it's a

1110
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: silly joke. It's I think you're both nailing it, and

1111
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: with this particular issue because women are so few and

1112
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: far between in magic. It's probably about seven percent of

1113
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: anybody that's a magician, from like a hobbyist to a

1114
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: full time professional or magicians, but only two of professionals

1115
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: are women, So the number is really low already, and

1116
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: you don't see that that number is not reflected when

1117
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: people are first starting out in magic. When people are

1118
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: first starting out of magic, the maturity of the classes

1119
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: are often women, are often people of color, and you

1120
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: watch those people quit slowly as they go through magic,

1121
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: and it's because of it. They either don't see themselves

1122
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: reflected in magic. They come up against too many barriers, like, oh,

1123
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: my skin is not white, so I guess I can't

1124
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: use these props and there's nobody that makes them in

1125
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: my skin in tone, I don't know what to do

1126
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: moving on, Or oh, I don't have pockets and I

1127
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: need like some massive pockets in order to do this trick.

1128
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 1: I guess I can't do that trick, and eventually I

1129
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: guess I can't do magic. This happens all of the time.

1130
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: But then when you start to add in more of

1131
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 1: the horror and harassment and bullying that exists because magicians

1132
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: are have a mentality that's still in the fifties, you

1133
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: end up having and you have a movie like this

1134
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: of a young girl sees this movie and it's like cool,

1135
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: a woman like she's doing magic. This is awesome, whether

1136
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: or not they see her do magic. But they see

1137
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: this scene, that young girl is one hundred percent going

1138
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: to be spoken to like that by an older magician

1139
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: at some point in her life. It just it's going

1140
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: to happen at a magic club meeting, at a convention.

1141
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen. And now she has watched this movie

1142
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: and it's in her head going, oh, I should just

1143
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 1: laugh it off, and like that sucks. That's such trauma

1144
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: that she's later going to need to work out in therapy.

1145
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: I know, so right, Like that is it's so impactful,

1146
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: and already in a world where the lack of diversity

1147
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:18,480
Speaker 1: is astounding and the lack of inclusivity is even more astounding,

1148
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:24,879
Speaker 1: You're like, this movie doesn't help, doesn't help us. Go hey, actually,

1149
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: like that's not okay, And actually here's a woman doing

1150
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 1: her own magic, and you know, of course we can

1151
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: get into it. But I also have in my notes

1152
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: like Morgan Freeman, the black magician quit magic to sell

1153
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 1: out for money and then got framed and arrested. What

1154
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, the one the one magician of color in

1155
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: the movie. What are we doing? So this movie just

1156
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: it just doesn't help issues that we're constantly seeing optics

1157
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: are so bad. The optics are terrible to me. What

1158
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:02,640
Speaker 1: you think about this, Kayla? So this is such a

1159
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: brief moment in the movie where if you blinked, you'd

1160
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: miss it. But I feel like there's something significant here

1161
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: where when the four characters are being introduced at the

1162
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: very beginning of the movie, and we see Henley's solo act,

1163
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 1: you know, she's and I'm about to jump in this

1164
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:23,679
Speaker 1: tank of water and if I don't escape in sixty seconds,

1165
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 1: I'll be eaten by piranhas and then her two assistant

1166
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: So I think our men rip off her clothes and

1167
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: then she's wearing this like sparkly bathing suit in a

1168
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,600
Speaker 1: way that makes it seem like her act is sexualized

1169
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: to some degree? Is there, Like, do you find that

1170
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: there is like pressure among the women who are operating

1171
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: on a professional level as magicians to do stuff like that,

1172
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: to like have to kind of sexualize their act or

1173
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: like present as more quote unquote sexy, to have audiences

1174
01:09:57,439 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: engage with them more or like take them more seriously,

1175
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: Like is ah is that a thing? The first time

1176
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 1: I was told I needed to be more sexy on stage,

1177
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 1: I was thirteen. That doesn't surprise me, but I am

1178
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 1: still horrified and there. I mean, it's like that ship

1179
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: existing comedy as well, but it seems like this is

1180
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 1: it's like even more intense in magic, good lord. Magic

1181
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: is a couple of decades behind comedy. If that kind

1182
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 1: of helps give you an idea, is like, it's everything

1183
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:34,560
Speaker 1: that stand ups and comedians have experienced. Magicians also experience,

1184
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: but we're a little behind the progress, and so it

1185
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: is a thing. A lot of women have just either

1186
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 1: chosen for themselves to be more sexual on stage or

1187
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: they feel like that's the only way they can get

1188
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: work because that's who they see getting work. And what

1189
01:10:56,200 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: ends up happening, unfortunately, is that there's more effort put

1190
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: into appearance than there is the skill, and then a

1191
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 1: lot of people start to create the buzz of like, well,

1192
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: she's she's beautiful, she's hot, she's sexy, but she's real

1193
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 1: bad at magic, and then that becomes well, all women

1194
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: are bad at magic, and that's sort of how the

1195
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: narrative kind of continues. I remember when I wanted to

1196
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: become a professional, I sat down with my friend who

1197
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 1: for her entire life, she's been the sexy one, like

1198
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: she's always been stunning. That's what she's worked on. And

1199
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: I said to her, I don't want to do that,

1200
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 1: but I feel like I have to in order to

1201
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: get work, because that seems to be who gets work.

1202
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: And she was like, don't do it. She just like

1203
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 1: she was like, don't do it. I'm aging people won't

1204
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 1: book me anymore because I'm forty and not pretty anymore.

1205
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 1: And you know quote, I'm not pretty anymore. Right, of

1206
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: course she's beautiful, she's freaking stunning, but because she's getting

1207
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: older and you can tell, people didn't want to book

1208
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: her anymore. And so she's like, if you can avoid

1209
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: having work because of how you look, then that's brilliant.

1210
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: And that's where I went, I think I should be

1211
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 1: funny because I like being funny. But comedy doesn't rely

1212
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 1: on how I look. It doesn't have to write. And

1213
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,560
Speaker 1: so that that was a really big turning point for me,

1214
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, thank god, I don't have

1215
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: to do that. But it's really really big in magic

1216
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: and it's like the fact that that even needs to

1217
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: be a discussion is like a you know, testament to

1218
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: where that particular industry is at. And it's like that

1219
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 1: that happens in many industries, but it seems particularly agreeous

1220
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 1: in magic, like the fact that that's something that either

1221
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: of you even need to consider, where it's like, that's

1222
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 1: not a conversation that men in that industry are having.

1223
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: They can just do magic right. And to be clear,

1224
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 1: if someone wants to in any kind of performance like

1225
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: lean into sexiness or sexuality, that's totally fine. If that's

1226
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 1: what then it's more about like the pressure on specifically

1227
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: women to hyper sexualize themselves in an effort to get

1228
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 1: booked on shows and get work and all that stuff. Yeah,

1229
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 1: and I love like. There was an act that floated around.

1230
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: It was a viral video many many years ago, and

1231
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: at the time I really didn't like it, but I

1232
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: was quite young and didn't have a good headspace for

1233
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: this yet. But she's a burlesque dancer and stripper who

1234
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: would do a magic trick where she would make us

1235
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: red silk vanish, and then she would pull it out

1236
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: of an item of clothing and then take it, take

1237
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 1: that item of clothing off, and then make the make

1238
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: it vanish again and pull it out of a By

1239
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 1: the time she's completely naked and she's pulling it out

1240
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,680
Speaker 1: of her vagina and it was it was It's a

1241
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:44,640
Speaker 1: brilliant act. It was so clever and smart and had

1242
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with

1243
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: just be wit. It was like wit and even though

1244
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 1: it's still very sexual And it's like, that's to me

1245
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 1: the pitome of an act that can combine good magic

1246
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 1: with good sexuality city and what ends up. And it's

1247
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 1: unfortunate that there are so many women in the industry

1248
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: that just care about the sexuality and really don't try

1249
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: to do good magic because the sexuality is a crutch

1250
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 1: so they're happy to use it. That's where I start.

1251
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, man, I wish that that wasn't the reality.

1252
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,879
Speaker 1: But there are tons of women in magic that do both,

1253
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:25,440
Speaker 1: and they're so good and it's such a great show

1254
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 1: that I super support being as sexual as you want to,

1255
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 1: as long as the magic is also something you care about. Sure,

1256
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 1: And it's like even I'm sure they could be people

1257
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: who are perceived to be like leaning too much on

1258
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: any given thing, Like there's a greater context for that

1259
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: as well of like, well, you don't get there in

1260
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: a vacuum and how you're you know, conditioned to value

1261
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: yourself and an like there's just it just seems like

1262
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 1: there's an incredible amount of layers in a way that again,

1263
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 1: this movie does nothing to move the needle on and

1264
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,520
Speaker 1: just present the trope without any commentary or any indication

1265
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: on how it makes the person being asked to execute

1266
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: the trope, like, no indication on how it makes her

1267
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 1: feel other than that one line of dialogue that has

1268
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 1: not followed through on in any way. Yeah. Um. The

1269
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,640
Speaker 1: last thing I'll say about Henley's character, which is like

1270
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 1: the other big yikes thing, is several comments made about

1271
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 1: her weight where it's suggested it suggested that Daniel stopped

1272
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: working with her because she was too heavy or too

1273
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: big and couldn't fit through a hole for a trick.

1274
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: It's kind of you have to speculate here, but it's

1275
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: also like did he fire her because she was too fat?

1276
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 1: Quote unquote, And then later in the movie when he

1277
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: catches her on stage after the bubble pops and she

1278
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 1: falls into the bubble, uh, he says, Oh, I guess

1279
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: you have lost some weight. Mind you, we're talking about

1280
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: Isla Fisher. Just the suggestion that like Daniel was like, yeah,

1281
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 1: I had to fire Isla Fisher because she was too fat.

1282
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: It's just completely absurd and just like insulting top to

1283
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 1: bottom and baseline makes no sense. And also and it

1284
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 1: was like, on top of being extremely fat phobic in

1285
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: a way that in regards to this actor doesn't even

1286
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,679
Speaker 1: make sense, it also just like makes you hate Jesse

1287
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: Eisenberg's character, which I don't think we're supposed to. So

1288
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: it's like, right, just like how we're supposed to be

1289
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 1: endeared by Woody Harrelson's character even though he's making transphobic

1290
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: jokes and slurs and homophobic joke like that whole disaster.

1291
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: The other major thing I wanted to touch on was

1292
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: what I felt to be an extremely wedged in romance

1293
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: between Rhodes and Alma. So again, Alma is the agent

1294
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 1: from Interpool, she's brought in. She's also made to seem

1295
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 1: kind of like a red herring for a while, like, oh,

1296
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,600
Speaker 1: what are her motives? Why is she some ways, I

1297
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 1: genuinely felt was an excuse to let Mark Ruffalo continue

1298
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: yelling at this woman, because it was like any time

1299
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 1: you were meant to be suspicious of her, he would

1300
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 1: have a rude confrontation of her with like belittle her skill,

1301
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 1: which you're like, Okay, they're all fucking cops, so who cares.

1302
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 1: But it's like the movie took on a lot of

1303
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 1: opportunities to be like, let's yell at her again. It

1304
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 1: was like what I mean, how many how many times

1305
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: did they mentioned like, oh, this is her first time

1306
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 1: off the desk, she doesn't know what she's doing. I

1307
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: sit in the car, sit in the car. It was constant.

1308
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 1: It's like part misogyny, part bad writing, part both. You're

1309
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 1: just like, this is just a mess, even though she

1310
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 1: has the best instincts and is the best at her

1311
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: like detective job. But which I mean is is realistic

1312
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:52,680
Speaker 1: where you know, oftentimes the person who is overlooked and

1313
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 1: mistreated on the job is the best at it, but

1314
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 1: because of their gender or race or any other number

1315
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 1: of factors, they are disregarded and not taken seriously. So

1316
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 1: that was at least realistic, I guess. But then it

1317
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: just means you have to see this woman mistreated by

1318
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: this character who turns out to be someone who were

1319
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 1: also meant to be endeared too, because it's like, oh

1320
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 1: my god, Mark Ruffalo was behind the whole thing. He's

1321
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 1: the genius who wrote the blueprints or whatever. So that's

1322
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 1: and then the romance between them. I've never seen a

1323
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 1: more wedged in romance. Suddenly they're kissing in the third

1324
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 1: act and it's like they even seem confused as to

1325
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:36,640
Speaker 1: why they're kissing, and they're like gay. And then at

1326
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 1: the end he's like, I have to come back for you.

1327
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, you don't. She's an Interpol officer that

1328
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: you kissed one time. What's wrong with you? So that

1329
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: was very bizarre, and I like that only happened because

1330
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 1: she's a woman. There wouldn't be some random wedged in

1331
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 1: romance otherwise. But it's just like, oh, well, we have

1332
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 1: a woman and a man next to each other in

1333
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:05,639
Speaker 1: a story, and heteronormativity dictates that they have to kiss. Yeah,

1334
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:09,599
Speaker 1: that was egregious. It's also slightly similar with the Jesse

1335
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 1: Eisenberg and Isla Fisher situation, which obviously, what when was

1336
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: that a romance? They hold hands at the end. Oh,

1337
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 1: I didn't even notice that. I believe it is one

1338
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: of Isla Fisher's last lines in the movie. It was

1339
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,799
Speaker 1: so bad that I was like laughing where she's giving

1340
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: her like corny end of movie line where she's like

1341
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,759
Speaker 1: even if we go to jail and even if everything

1342
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, and then Jesse Eisenberg interrupts her.

1343
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:40,160
Speaker 1: He's like, I know what you're thinking. And then and

1344
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: then it was like, oh, okay, well clearly they belonged together.

1345
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 1: He's being fucking horrible to her again, cool magic, so obnoxious.

1346
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:54,360
Speaker 1: The Jesse Eisenberg character, I have no I have nothing

1347
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 1: good to say, what a nightmare. Hated him, hated the

1348
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:02,799
Speaker 1: Woody Herold. I like when movies make me dislike Woody Harrelson.

1349
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: I resented He's so likable and his character is awful, awful. Honestly,

1350
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 1: the character who like the least sleazy, most likable character

1351
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 1: is probably Isla Fisher's character, which is wild because you

1352
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: don't know anything about her like they like. She's also

1353
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 1: the least characterized person in the whole movie. I think,

1354
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:27,960
Speaker 1: if we if we ever were wondering, like, what's a

1355
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 1: quick example of how the writers feel about women. The

1356
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: line of when Morgan Freeman says to Mark Ruffalo, what's

1357
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 1: the role of a magician's assistant? And Mark Ruffalo goes

1358
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: she distracts the audience while he sets up the trick

1359
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that's all you need, that's all

1360
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 1: we needed to know how you feel. Thank you very

1361
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:53,759
Speaker 1: much done. The thesis statement of the movie. Does anyone

1362
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 1: have any final thoughts? Got it all out? The last

1363
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,759
Speaker 1: thing I'll I will say is that a better movie

1364
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:08,839
Speaker 1: about the descendant of a magician seeking revenge by stealing

1365
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 1: things of great value? Is Paddington too? Abracadabra. Yeah, good twists.

1366
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: That's the real twist. Mark Ruffalo, God, the Mark Ruffalo twist.

1367
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 1: I was dying. It's really funny because even like Mark

1368
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:29,720
Speaker 1: Rufflo doesn't look totally sold in his performance that what

1369
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: is happening makes sense. He's like, yeah, it was me,

1370
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 1: it was it was me. Things a carous all. You're like,

1371
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 1: I gotta get me out of here. Altogether, it doesn't

1372
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 1: even pass the factual test. No, I don't think so.

1373
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:49,160
Speaker 1: I don't think women interact. What I thought was interesting

1374
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 1: was and this is not a compliment, but there's a

1375
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,679
Speaker 1: number of we've referenced some of them. There's a number

1376
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 1: of female characters who the movie does go out of

1377
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 1: the way to give names to audience members. Are given

1378
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: names almost every time. Other officers that only appear in

1379
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: one scene get names. The woman that um Interpol lady

1380
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 1: rents an apartment from in New Orleans gets a name,

1381
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: Like there's all of these women that get names, but

1382
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 1: then they never speak to other women, and sometimes, like

1383
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: in the case of the woman who rents the apartment,

1384
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 1: never speak at all, which is especially egregious because I

1385
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 1: don't think that there's like any there's there's no women

1386
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:32,719
Speaker 1: of color that have a significant roles in this movie,

1387
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 1: even though they're cast in like one offlines or like

1388
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:39,240
Speaker 1: in a single scene. And then I and then it's like,

1389
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 1: I Love Fisher's kind of like being Princess Lead in

1390
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 1: this movie, where she's like she's not given anyone to

1391
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:47,919
Speaker 1: talk to, or it's like Isla Fisher and the Interpol

1392
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: agent are like Princess Lead in different storylines. Could have

1393
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 1: so easily passed if Isla Fisher was to ask one

1394
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:58,839
Speaker 1: of the women in the audience what their bank account

1395
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: number was, but that did not happen, or if we

1396
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: see like Alma interrogating Isisle Fisher's character, but that also

1397
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. Also real quick the second show where they're

1398
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 1: stealing from Michael Caine and redistributing it to the audience

1399
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:17,800
Speaker 1: who had been affected by Hurricane Katrina. There is a

1400
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 1: black woman who has a bank account balance that increases

1401
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 1: by seventy thousand dollars, and we're like, oh wow, this

1402
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 1: is great, everyone's going to get seventy thollars, but then

1403
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: everyone else. The next thing that happens is a white

1404
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 1: woman gets two hundred and eighty thousand dollars, and it's like,

1405
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 1: you can't just if you're going to redistribute the wealth,

1406
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 1: you can't what I think that's like, it's the subjects

1407
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 1: of that was. I think that they were trying to

1408
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 1: give each person what they were owed from Hurricane Katrina insurance,

1409
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 1: but it's like it doesn't scan at all, and it

1410
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,759
Speaker 1: seems and it comes off very aggressive for no reason,

1411
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: like yeah, and then like the optics of like giving

1412
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 1: one of the few you woman of color in the

1413
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 1: movie at all with line like way less like a

1414
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 1: quarter of money that than a white woman gets, Like

1415
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 1: what also she had seven hundred dollars? Like why did

1416
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 1: we need to make the black woman living in poverty? Yeah,

1417
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:19,959
Speaker 1: that too, That's how she came in, That's how she started,

1418
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 1: Like we did not help. What is happening this movie sucks.

1419
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 1: It's so fucking lazy to the pot where I'm like,

1420
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 1: did the screenwriters even like register the optics of what

1421
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:34,200
Speaker 1: they're doing? It just seems like it was written in

1422
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: this bizarro white guy vacuum. I don't know. This movie

1423
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:42,799
Speaker 1: sucks so bad as most movies are so our scale

1424
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 1: of zero to five nipples, based on examining the movie

1425
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,559
Speaker 1: through an intersectional feminist lens, I would give this movie

1426
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 1: zero nipples. Now you see no nipples, I'll meet you there.

1427
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: No no nipples for the movie. I can't imagine how

1428
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 1: frustrating it is to be constantly asked questions about this movie.

1429
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,720
Speaker 1: It's it's just constant. Listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna be

1430
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 1: a little controversial here, and i'm gonna give it half

1431
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:16,639
Speaker 1: a nipple. And the only reason why is that there

1432
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: was a woman in the magic show who spoke like that.

1433
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 1: That's already a leg up then most magic things that exist.

1434
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 1: So the fact that she had a microphone during the show,

1435
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it a half. That's fair. Yeah, but

1436
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 1: what what a low bar to set. I know, what

1437
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 1: a stinky ass movie. I'm now you three me canceled, ruined.

1438
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,840
Speaker 1: I hope that this episode this destroyed and then there

1439
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 1: should be a movie about women doing magic. For crying

1440
01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 1: out loud, are there are last question for you? Are

1441
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,640
Speaker 1: there movies about magic that you would recommend to our audience.

1442
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:07,880
Speaker 1: I like The Prestige. I like The Prestige too. I'm

1443
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 1: glad I have to watch it again. But I wouldn't

1444
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say you should watch The Prestige for like

1445
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 1: any sort of intersectional feminist fund. I think it's just

1446
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 1: I love Hugh Jackmant. But other than that, no, not

1447
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: that I can think of. I'd imagine if we covered

1448
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:26,880
Speaker 1: that movie on the podcast it would similarly get I

1449
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:29,000
Speaker 1: don't think it would do very well. I just it's

1450
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 1: just at least a competently made movie. It's a competently

1451
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 1: made movie. I So I'll tell you the most accurate

1452
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: magic movie to ever exist is The amazing Bert Wonderstone.

1453
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:42,519
Speaker 1: It's a not a good movie, but it's the most

1454
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:46,680
Speaker 1: accurate to the magic worlds. Like the opening scene where

1455
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 1: Steve Carrell has the biggest bed in the world. That's

1456
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: like a straight ripped off of Chris Angel's life. So

1457
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 1: there are a lot of that is very, very accurate.

1458
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 1: So if you want to know, like what magic actually

1459
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 1: looks like. Not a bad one to watch, all right,

1460
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for that wreck, and thanks for coming on the show.

1461
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:07,200
Speaker 1: It was such a treat to have you come back

1462
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 1: any time and tell us where people can follow you,

1463
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:15,479
Speaker 1: plug your podcast, etcetera, so you can find out more

1464
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: about what I'm doing. My website is magic in Heels

1465
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: dot com and that's also all the social media's Magic

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01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: and Heels. And then my podcast if you're interested in

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01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 1: finding out about more about diversity and inclusion in magic

1468
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: and Allied variety arts or lack thereof of diversity and

1469
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 1: inclusion in Allied variety arts. Uh, it's she's am pod

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01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,879
Speaker 1: dot com or she's am on all your favorite podcast places.

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01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:41,040
Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for having me. I'm so

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01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 1: glad we finally did this. This is awesome. Appreciate you.

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01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 1: We're very very happy. Thank you again, and you can

1474
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:51,400
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter and Instagram at pecktel Cast. You

1475
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:55,719
Speaker 1: can subscribe to our Matreon at Patreon dot com slash

1476
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 1: pecktel Cast. You get to bonus episodes every month, plus

1477
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:02,759
Speaker 1: access to the entire back cattle, all for five dollars

1478
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:06,599
Speaker 1: a month. Get merch at tea, public dot com, slash

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01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:10,799
Speaker 1: the back tel cast if you are so inclined, everyone,

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01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 1: I have a confession to make. Yes, this may not

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01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 1: make any sense, but um um it was me. Oh

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01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 1: my gosh, Jamie, is your dad Shrek? My dad is Shrek?

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01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:25,840
Speaker 1: And he died. Oh no, And so I became a

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01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 1: cop and then I waited twenty years and now I'm

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01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:33,240
Speaker 1: avenging Shrek. Wow. What a compelling story, What a perfect

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01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:39,520
Speaker 1: setup for a sequel that actually happened wild well, goodbye,

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01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 1: bye bye,