1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They call 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer, 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: you to know. We live in interesting times, gentlemen, and 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: it's time that we talk about elections. Seems basic stuff, right, 11 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: but they're they're they're a big big deal, even when 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: they are not perfect. Every year, billions upon billions of 13 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: dollars go into securing votes, spreading what message, attacking another, 14 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: ultimately with the aim of getting quote unquote your candidate 15 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: in office. In some countries, like in the Democratic People's 16 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: Republic of Korea, elections are more or less rubber stamp 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: there are formality. In other countries, like the US, they 18 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: are hotly contested. They are an industry as much as 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: a political process. And here in the States it is 20 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: virtually a guarantee that no matter who wins the presidential election, 21 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: some part of the population is going to say that 22 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: it was rigged. I mean, it's crazy if you look 23 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: back over the decades. For a long time, for many years, 24 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: voters seem to kind of trust the official results, the 25 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: political system. But over the recent decades, more and more 26 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: people are more and more concerned about the legitimacy of 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: this process. And part of that is due to the 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: increased availability of information. Part of it is due to 29 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: the spread of new technologies. The best way to look 30 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: at it or describe it as this and something I 31 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: think we explored a past episode. It is not that 32 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: there are more skeletons in democracy's closet. It's just now 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: we're able to turn on more lights to search for them. 34 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: So as we end all of us listening here in 35 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: the US approach the presidential elections in November, we were 36 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: inspired by this anonymous voicemail to dig into the story 37 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: of elections gone wrong. Perhaps it will be a cautionary tale. 38 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: So the s from Marco's Mexico and then so final research, 39 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: I found out that the Mexican elections were grected by 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: both parties, and according to what I thought, it was 41 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: the good of the nation that that's what they said, 42 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: and I was one of that's something that to set 43 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: a president in the next questions in the US, not 44 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: just to look into that. Thanks. Oh yes, the concept 45 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: that's someone somewhere, specifically in Mexico in rigged a democratic 46 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: presidential election for the good of the nation. Well, you 47 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: were talking about democracy here, right, The concept that each 48 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: of us, you, me, everybody, we know that we living 49 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: as citizens of a country can make or could make 50 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: the best decision for that country about who should lead it. Right, 51 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: that's the that's the painted lines on the road faith 52 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: thing that we're kind of going into with this one. 53 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: Right then, yep, So why should you care about something 54 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: that happened decades ago in Mexico? Here are the facts. 55 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: Presidential elections in Mexico bear a lot of similarities to 56 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: elections in the US, but there are several noticeable differences. 57 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: Maybe we can start with the similarities. I'll throw one 58 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: out there, Mexico as a president. Yeah, no, that definitely 59 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: is the first one. Both countries have huge public campaigns. Uh. 60 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: Media blitz is personal appearances, debates, opinion polls, and talking 61 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: heads all over the news covering the election. Uh, it's 62 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: it's a very very similar experience to what we see 63 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: here um during an election cycle. Uh. Not a great show, 64 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,559 Speaker 1: but I did. It was the first time I really 65 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: saw what this looks like. The show Weeds, there's a 66 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: character that becomes the press that is the president of 67 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: Mexico and you kind of see a lot of the 68 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: pomp and circumstances surrounding that political process. And one of 69 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: the later seasons of that show that was pretty maligned, 70 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: but it it was, you know, one of the first 71 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: times I was aware, Okay, this is how it works there. 72 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: It's very similar to how it is here. And as 73 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: the caller mentioned, that's also something that you see a 74 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: bit of in Narcos, which is a superior show. Yes, 75 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: and when you know, when you're thinking about casting your vote, 76 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: if you're eighteen years or older, you have likely done 77 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: this before you go to designated pulling place, you cast 78 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: your ballot, either on paper or electronically, and it is 79 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: in all likelihood, well, we know that in Mexico the 80 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: ballots were done by hand. It was a paper ballot, uh, 81 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: and you know that there's something to that and having 82 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: a physical paper thing that then gets counted and then 83 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: your wherever you live your local area, all those votes 84 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: get counted up, and then all of those votes from 85 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: all the different local areas get counted up, and that's 86 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: how you win an election or lose one. Yeah. So 87 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: so if you were voting in Mexico on election day, 88 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: then you were voting in the US on election day, 89 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: you odds are you would have kind of a similar experience, right, 90 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: especially in as you said, Matt, uh, the days of 91 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: paper voting, um back when hanging Chad's meant something other 92 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: than you know, people at Abercrombie and which. But there 93 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: there are significant differences, and they make up and make 94 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: a big difference here in some ways you could argue 95 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: these are changes that the U. S could should consider. Uh. First, 96 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: Mexico system is younger. The president's powers of office come 97 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: from the Revolutionary Constitution of seventeen. So the first quote 98 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: unquote modern Mexican president comes to us in seventeen. And 99 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: it's a very very big difference. Unlike a president in 100 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: the United States, a president in Mexico cannot be re elected. 101 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: They cannot be elected twice. You get the one shot. Yeah, 102 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a longer term. You know, 103 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: we have a four year term for a U S president, 104 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: and then of course there's so much that goes into 105 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: the idea of being really reelected. And I think, you know, 106 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: many folks who criticized the system would argue that that 107 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: re election bid largely shapes the policies and the optics 108 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: of that term and what is accomplished or not accomplished 109 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: their goals, etcetera. So I don't know, I like this 110 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: idea of a single six year term and then you're done, um, 111 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: and that's called I believe it's called a pronounced sex 112 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: senio ben or a six year term. Yeah, that's correct, 113 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: sex seniou six year term. The main thing is full 114 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: stop you once you were president, even for an abbreviated term, 115 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: as like a caretaker of some sort, you can never 116 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: run again. That is seen as uh too much power. 117 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: There are other differences as well. Partially, one of the 118 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: big ones is the day of the week. Here in 119 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: the US you vote for people on for some reason, Tuesdays, 120 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: and in Mexico elections always occur on Sundays, and I 121 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: kind of like the ring of super Sundays over super Tuesdays. Personally, 122 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: the alliteration has got that going for it. Yeah. You know, 123 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: another major difference here is that in Mexico there was 124 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: not a pandemic going on, so people actually went out 125 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: physically to vote. They didn't have to get paper ballots 126 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: into their house or you know, absentee ballots or do 127 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: anything online. Again hampered a bit there by the technological side, 128 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: but you had to go physically and do this. Oh 129 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: and here's the other big thing that we've talked about 130 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: on this show many a time. In the United States, 131 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: there are how many presidential parties they can buy for election? 132 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, just two? Just two. In Mexico, on the 133 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: other hand, there are three principal political parties. But the 134 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: really good thing here, and this is maybe similar to 135 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: the US, there are a bunch of you know, smaller 136 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: parties in Mexico where if you think about things like 137 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: the Green Party or the Libertarian Party. There are multiple 138 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: parties here in the US as well, they just don't 139 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: have much power when it comes to being able to 140 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: secure enough votes to win an election by design. Yeah, 141 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: and I believe we've talked about that before or uh, 142 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: the the way the funding works is after as a 143 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: party in the US, if you get a certain portion 144 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: of the vote, then you get federally matched funding of 145 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: a certain type. Um, it's it's really, it's tremendously, unreasonably 146 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: cartoonishly difficult for a third party to break through in 147 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: the US. And again that's not a bug, that's a 148 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: feature that's very much by design. But Matt, as you said, 149 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: you know there's this plurality of of parties in Mexico. 150 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: And this also goes into how the winner of the 151 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: election is decided. Right, Yes, it gets a little complicated 152 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: when you're thinking about elections in the United States because 153 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: we have this thing called the electoral college system. Again, 154 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: we have spoken about this before, and it's it's a 155 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: bit weird because throughout the electoral college, or in within 156 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: this system, each state has a certain number of these votes, 157 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: and then when the voting, you know, the popular vote 158 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: comes in from all of the citizens within let's say Georgia, 159 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: depending on the proportion of you know, popular voting for 160 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: candidate A versus candidate B is going to depend how 161 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: many electoral college votes actually get cast for for the 162 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: president for the presidential election. And now that here's where 163 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: it gets really weird. It changes depending on the state 164 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: you're in, because some states give all the electoral college 165 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: votes to the winner, others give a proportional amount of 166 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 1: votes to the winner UM, and the political parties are 167 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: in charge of the electoral college voters. Right and off, Mike, 168 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: I was confused, as many of you may may still be, 169 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: about the difference between majority and plurality. And Ben made 170 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: the great point that plurality and theory UM allows more 171 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: cooperation between parties, and our electoral college system is sort 172 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: of set up to be incredibly divisive between parties and 173 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: the cooperation just isn't a thing, and it's very much 174 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: an all or nothing kind of campaign with very little 175 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: cooperation across the board. And that's sort of been a 176 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: big issue with our government in general. Is this idea 177 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: of like, you know, communicating across the aisle or whatever. Um. 178 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: So when I first heard this, I was like, this 179 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: is interesting. It seems like a better system. Yeah. Yeah, 180 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: So that's that's one of the big differences for how 181 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: the winner has chosen. In the episode of Highland are 182 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: known as presidential elections in Mexico, Uh, the winner is 183 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: chosen by plurality. In the US, the winner has chosen 184 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: through majority. And as you said, Matt, the electoral college 185 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: system is a complicated thing. By design, it does, it 186 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: has good intentions, and it functions often to sort of 187 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: remove power from from many demographics. Uh. That that's why, 188 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's weird for outside observers to say, wait, 189 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: this candidate lost the popular vote, why are they president? 190 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: And like, oh, well, we have this whole other vote. 191 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: We don't get to really voted it. But you know 192 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: that's that's the one that counts. Um. Now. I know 193 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people have problems saying that, but there's 194 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: not many holes you can poke. And what I just said, Ben, 195 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned best intentions. I think that's 196 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: going to be a big theme in today's episode that 197 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: we're going to see popping up and what that actually means. Uh. 198 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: And you know where are those intentions coming from? That 199 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: can make a huge difference. Let's just continue on this 200 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: train of some of the similarities and differences just between 201 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: voting and elections in the US versus Mexico. So in 202 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: the United States here our elections take place in November. 203 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: Our presidential elections at least take place in November, and 204 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: then whoever wins goes into office and is inaugurated in 205 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: January of the following year. Now in Mexico, the elections 206 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: are held in early July and then whoever wins those 207 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: elections comes in in December, which is really interesting. It's 208 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: like getting a bit of an early start on the 209 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: new year um or like being able to establish the 210 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: office prior to having to really uh begin executing anything. Uh. 211 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: It's like it's like it's like becoming a teacher during 212 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: the summer, so you get your you know, you get 213 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: to do your prep work before the school year starts, 214 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: as opposed to like starting on day one with zero 215 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: time to get your ducks in a row. I don't know, 216 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: that's sort of a silly comparison, but I think it 217 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: holds not bad at all. I think that's a stute 218 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: And and the interesting thing here is, remember we said that, uh, 219 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: presidents only get to serve one term, so they're already 220 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: kind of on the way out, which you know, by 221 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: year five, year six, which makes the parties in Mexico, 222 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: the ones who got the president elected, even more influential. 223 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: And in this country, in Mexico, the sitting president, whoever 224 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: they are, whatever their party is, they are banned from 225 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: endorsing any candidate and they're banned from campaigning with them, 226 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: at least officially. But think about that. Imagine if you 227 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: if you live within the U S. Or you you 228 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: just watch the news around the time of a U 229 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: S presidential election, Imagine how often you see a sitting 230 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: president speaking highly of the next person within their party 231 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: that's in line to take over. Uh. It's so it's 232 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: just such a ubiquitous image that goes out there and 233 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: a way to use existing power to to promote the 234 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: next person. Well, and I carry so much weight, and 235 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: it's just part of the system. The idea of an endorsement, 236 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: uh is as as part of the system as you know, 237 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: casting your vote. I mean, it's it's it's completely intertwined 238 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: with the idea of democracy. No one thinks anything negative 239 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: about the idea of an endorsement, right, I guess what 240 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean is it's a lever to pull in an 241 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: attempt to maintain the power structures for that party. Yeah. Yeah, 242 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: And it's one of the biggest it's one of one 243 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: of the biggest switches you can pull. In fact, here 244 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: in the US, it would be extraordinary, it would be unprecedented. Sorry, 245 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: it would be unprecedented for a sitting president not to endorse, 246 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: especially you know, at the end of their two terms 247 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: and they're not running for reelection. It would be bizarre. 248 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: It would be like we're in the upside down for 249 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: a sitting president to not endorse the candidate from their party. 250 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: And you know, there are there are many other differences, 251 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, especially when you get to the congressional voting 252 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: levels and nuts and bolts of that, as well as 253 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: the physical way voting is carried out. But for what 254 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: we were exploring today, that's what you need to know 255 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: about the presidency in Mexico, and multiple observers will probably 256 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: assure you that the aspects of the voting system in 257 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: Mexico are superior to parts of the US voting system. 258 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: But let's explore a specific example and why it matters today. 259 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: We'll do this after a word from our sponsor. On 260 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: July six, nineteen, Mexico held its scheduled election. This was 261 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: part of the normal political process. There were three candidates 262 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: in the front running, each from one of the three. 263 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: You know, primary political party power sources is Carlos Salinas 264 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: de Gutari to Mack Cardinas and Manuel Clothier. We're not 265 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: native speakers, so apologies for any mispronunciations there. But ultimately 266 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: here's what happened. The very end of it is that 267 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: the Ministry of the Interior declared Salinas the winner and 268 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: said that he had received fifty point seven percent of 269 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: the vote, five zero point seven. This was the lowest 270 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: winning winning number for a candidate in the entire history 271 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: of Mexico's election system since it started in v It 272 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: was just like just eke and past the post. You know, 273 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: it's like a nose, the nose finished there. Yeah, that 274 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: point seven made all the difference, and that was since 275 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: the institution of the system in and so that leads 276 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: to some questions, Uh, was it rigged? That's sure. As 277 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: a narrow margin, it seems like a little bit suspect perhaps, 278 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: And it turns out there were some reasons to be 279 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: suspicious of this. There were problems with the process from 280 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,959 Speaker 1: the offset. Initial results from around the capitol um showed 281 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: that Mr. Salinas was losing quite badly to the opposition leader, Mr. Cardenas, 282 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: and people started to claim from those early days that 283 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: the election was written that Salinas was not the true 284 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: presidents And you know, it's something that is is pretty common. 285 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: We hear it in this country as well, the idea 286 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: that when things are close, that something is afoot, that 287 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: there is some sort of foul plays involved. As I said, 288 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: plenty of examples in the history of the United States. Uh, 289 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: to compare this to So what's different about this case. Well, 290 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: the thing that's different is that in this case we're 291 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: not just seeing claims that this election was rigged, you 292 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: know on internet forums after the fact. We're not looking 293 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: at claims from the opposition saying that something was wrong 294 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 1: um or pundits who are going on television and you know, 295 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: just to to speak poorly about the person that won. No, 296 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: we actually have somebody that came forward uh in two 297 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: thousand four men named Miguel Della Madrid, and he confirmed everything. 298 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: So the big question is, uh, like can we trust him? 299 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: First of all? Who is he? Why does he matter? 300 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: And Uh, there's an answer to that because see Mr Madrid, 301 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: this was the president of Mexico at the time of 302 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: the election in so he was the guy sitting on 303 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: the throne when all of this went down, and he 304 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: is the guy who has come forward to confirm it. 305 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So was this vote compromised? 306 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: Years later, the answer seems to be emphatically yes. In 307 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: a fairly lengthy autobiography released in two thousand and four something, 308 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: it ran about eight hundred fifty pages, as former president 309 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: Mr de la Madrid recounted how he and other government 310 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: officials who are also associated with his party, the Institutional 311 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: Revolutionary Party or p r I as it's called. Uh, 312 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: they were terrified that the opposition candidate Cardanis would win 313 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: the vote, and so if he if he on the vote, 314 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: he would drive their their handpick successor out of office. 315 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: But he would do something much more dangerous to them 316 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: than that. He would drive the p r I party 317 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: out of power, and that meant that they got they 318 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: would get their fingers cut out from a lot of 319 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: pies that they were in in business and government, likely 320 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: in criminal activities. I said what I said, and this 321 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: this is terrifying. Uh. He is so candid about it now. 322 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: Mr de la Madrid said, when he heard the news 323 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: about how bad things were going, when the people were 324 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: actually allowed to vote the way they wanted to, he said, 325 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: I felt like a bucket of ice water had fallen 326 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: on me. I became afraid that the results were similar 327 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: across the country and that the p r I would 328 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: lose the presidency. Notice he doesn't say the presidential candidate 329 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: would lose the presidency. He says the party would lose 330 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: the presidency, so E would lose control. Right. So what happened? Yeah, 331 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: I mean, as pole results started coming in, the Secretary 332 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: of the Interior told him that the initial results were 333 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: uh not looking good for the p r I. UM, 334 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: and the public demanded, uh these returns, according to Madrid himself, um, 335 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: And rather than giving those results, the government lied and 336 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: said the computer system had crashed or there was some 337 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: kind of fatal error failure. Uh. And the president of 338 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: the p r I told Madrid, quote, you have to 339 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: proclaim the triumph of the p r I. It is 340 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: a tradition that we cannot break without causing great alarm 341 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: among the citizens. Yeah. Yeah, Um. It got really weird 342 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: because I don't know if anyone listening can remember back 343 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: to the two thousand elections when the candidates were George W. 344 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: Bush and Al Gore here in the United States, and 345 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: there was great confusion in this country when the media, 346 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: various media organizations began coming forward and declaring that one 347 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: of the two men had won with you know, only 348 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: a fairly small or moderate proportion of the votes coming in. 349 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: But but all of these media companies were were using 350 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: different models to figure out what, well, if we have 351 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: this proportion of votes at this time, then we can 352 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: declare this. Um. It just became very strange and um 353 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: lots of people got it wrong and quickly, but they 354 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: made those mistakes early. So it felt like that was 355 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: the reality, you know. But that's yeah, that's that's the thing. 356 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: Just that we have to remember. There's there's the fog 357 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: of war, right, and there's the incompetence that can always occur. 358 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: But then also these are commercial media outlets reporting this. 359 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: They depend on advertiser dollars, and uh it is um 360 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: it is fundamentally true that they are getting pushed behind 361 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: you know, behind closed doors. I think of it as like, um, 362 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: you were thinking of the right word to like describe shenanigans. 363 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: Maybe we call it shenana ghanocity. Right, both the type 364 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: of the shenanigan and the direction and speed at which 365 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: it travels. You can trace this stuff. There's a reason 366 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: that in two thousand, Fox News was telling you something 367 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: very different from what CNN or MSNBC or so long, 368 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: we're saying, and the same kind of thing, not exactly 369 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: the same, but a very similar thing was occurring in 370 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: there in Mexico and July during this election where the 371 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: opposition parties as there, you know, they've got their own 372 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: teams that are looking at results as any and all 373 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: communications are happening. And these candidates. So we got the 374 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: three candidates, right, one of them is in the p 375 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: r I party, and then the other two or not 376 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: the opposition candidates to the p r I are coming 377 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: forward and saying, hey, we are the winner. Look, it's 378 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: clear from the voting that's come in thus far we won, 379 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. So everyone's declaring themselves the winner 380 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: at the same time, right, and so what do you do? Uh? 381 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: The p r I had to kind of beat them 382 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: to the punch. At the very least, and without any 383 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: official vote count, the president of the p r I 384 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: declared his party, uh the winner. Um. And Mr Madrid 385 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: writes again and this tell all kind of bombshell biography 386 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: autobiography quote. As in any emergency, we had to act 387 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: because the problems were rising fast. There was not a 388 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: moment for great meditation. We needed agility in our response 389 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: to consolidate. There's this word again that gives me chills, 390 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: kind of the triumph of the p R I. Oh 391 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: and and and you know, blaming it on computer malfunction 392 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: wasn't like some kind of you know reach, I mean 393 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: the infrastructure responsible for accounting uh these for these votes 394 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: had broken down at least two times. Yeah, under mysterious 395 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: circumstances a k A. Cough cough. It was shut down 396 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: cough cough at least twice. Um. But technical difficulties are 397 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: are a good or a good thing to rely on, 398 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: you know. It's the old dog ate my homework of 399 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: voting sometimes and and it's it's fascinating because this this 400 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: is the point where every minute counts. And you know, 401 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: when we talk about the greater good here just the 402 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: plan to see for some of our our later conversation. 403 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: It's important to note that these these guys were practicing, um, 404 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: a psychological problem or fallacy that's common with every every 405 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: human being, every every person, which is this idea that 406 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: what is what I think is good and is best 407 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: for me. Since I'm the main character of my story, 408 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: is therefore good for everyone. Like guys, I'm the protagonist, 409 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: So what I want is you should automatically want you 410 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: should care more about me than you care about yourself 411 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: or other people. Nobody ever ultimately forgives other people for 412 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: the great sin of not also being them. And in politics, 413 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, we see this, we see this writ large. 414 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: Like I think it's a really interesting question that line about, 415 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: like we need to have the triumph of the p 416 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: r I because you know, the implication there is that 417 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: we are then guaranteeing stability for the country. That's something 418 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: good for things to remain the way they are. Um, 419 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: it's it's just interesting. It's not like they're you know, 420 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: Monty Burns esque wheedling their fingers around or what is it, 421 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: what is it called steepling their fingers and going yeah, 422 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: you go, and you know, yes, let's let it burn 423 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: and then kick puppies down the streets. They think they're 424 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: doing good. It's that's right, And that's something we were 425 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: talking about off you know, before we started rolling today. 426 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: This idea of the greater good, this idea of for 427 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: the good of the nation. Like if you truly believe 428 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: your ideological stance, then why wouldn't you think, you know, 429 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: keeping your party in power is for the greater good. Uh, 430 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: and and it could well be with good intentions and 431 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: not some kind of you know, we just want to 432 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: screw over the other guy, and and and be for 433 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: some sort of nefarious reason. Not to say that there 434 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: aren't nefarious reasons, because ideology is a slippery slope and 435 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: oftentimes people believe things that are not for the greater good. 436 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: But if they do believe it, then that's a powerful 437 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: thing belief. So yeah, as far as they were concerned, 438 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: this notion of protecting, defending this historical triumph of the 439 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: p r I, Uh, what was with the best intentions 440 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: and as far as they were concerned for the greater 441 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: good of the nation. Yeah, so they did it. They 442 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: declared they were the winners, and uh, it kind of worked. 443 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: We'll tell you all about it after a word from 444 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we return. So it's not a conspiracy theory. 445 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: The acting government in Mexico, despite all the laws against 446 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: endorsing or you know, tipping the scales. Uh, he conspired 447 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: with his entire crew, his entire cohort, and his colleagues 448 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: to rig the election. The world's media was aware of 449 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: the controversy at the time. The immediate aftermath of this 450 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: is not was not some kind of arcane secret to 451 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: international observers. There's a journalist store H. Rowley who was 452 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: writing for the Chicago Tribune at the time. Who um. 453 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: The article is really interesting to read because Rally spends 454 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: the first few paragraphs basically saying, you know, Mexico is 455 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: so crooked like ass not a spoiler the the elections 456 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: of always like it's it's like part of the culture 457 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: of Mexico to to rigg elections, which is, you know, 458 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: not not the most helpful way to lead into this story. Yeah. 459 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: The quote that he pulls right in that first paragraph 460 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: ben of about how this stuff that was happening in 461 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: this presidential election would quote make even an old time 462 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: Chicago machine politician proud. That's just like whoa exactly Yeah, 463 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: and then Rally writes vote rigging is a quote time 464 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: honored tradition, but these elections go a step further. And 465 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: then we have the quote about, um, the kind of 466 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: vocabulary in jargon that sprang up just about this election 467 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: and what people were doing kind of the way that 468 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: you heard um here and gone terms during U S elections, 469 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: like the hanging chats. It's all about the hanging chats. 470 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: There were versions of this Mexico. Oh man, yeah, this 471 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: is this one really got me. Um. Uh, the idea 472 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: of something called vote tacos, which would be a single 473 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: ballot folded over itself and then stuffed with twenty other 474 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: ballots that are pre marked, pre filled out for the 475 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: ruling party candidate um. And then something called turtle ism, 476 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: which is the deliberate delaying of the opening of the 477 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: polls in order to discourage folks from the opposite voting 478 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: party uh to vote because of long lines, hoping to 479 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: just kind of have them kind of throw their hands 480 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: up and and go home. And then back to what 481 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned Ben about you know, whether or not they 482 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: purposefully shut down some of these digital systems, electronic systems, 483 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: this notion of cybernetic fraud, the government's use of computers 484 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: to mold election data at will. Um, whether that's just 485 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: poll data or actually manipulating the voting record. What do 486 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: you think, Ben, combination of the two? I mean, the 487 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: worst per snask, But I think we're all we're all 488 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: kind of on the on the same page here that 489 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: these these tactics, uh, they really happened, right. Um. Now 490 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: we have to remember you cybernetic fraud was a very 491 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: forward facing term, you know what I mean, like, uh, 492 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: that's cyber that's crazy. That's before remember in the nineties 493 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: when everything was touted as being digital. This was like 494 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: very um, almost space age pleading edge technology. And at 495 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: the time, the other political candidates had their you know, 496 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: each of whom declared themselves the winners. Uh, they had 497 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: their own statements. As widespread voter manipulation was coming out. 498 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: Cardenas was National Democratic Front candidate, said that if if 499 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: any of this stuff was true, and if it was 500 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: all true, it would technically be the equivalent of a 501 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: coup data And he's not wrong, he's tam correct. And 502 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,959 Speaker 1: there were all kinds of allegations coming forward from varying 503 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: segments of the population in Mexico who who had very 504 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: specific allegations. And you know, if you look at if 505 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: you look at that Chicago Tribune article that we mentioned above, 506 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: you can see this stuff actually written out. Um. They 507 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: would come forward with things like what was known as carouseling, 508 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: or was known as a carousel, where groups of p 509 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: r I officials, government employees would go together in a group. 510 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: It would be pre arranged with the people running the 511 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: polling place, and they would vote once at that polling place, 512 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,479 Speaker 1: let's call it A. Then they would go together and 513 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: vote at polling place B, and the people running that 514 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: polling station would let them into And it was just 515 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: kind of a known thing that these this crew was 516 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: coming through to vote multiple times. And if I'm not mistaken, 517 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: that's similar to some of the Tammany Hall kind of 518 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: corrupt voting practices that that we we talked about earlier 519 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: in terms of like a lot of similarities between the 520 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: two UM and and one way that this was enabled 521 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: was the use of this particular ink, like you know 522 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: how like if you take your kid to chuck E cheese, 523 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: they make you get a stamp on your hand and 524 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: then one on your kid's hand, and then when you leave, 525 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,479 Speaker 1: they got to compare the stamps. And maybe people who 526 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: don't have kids don't know this, but it's the thing 527 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: I was impressed when I first experienced it. Uh. And 528 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: that way you can't take someone else's kid. UM. In 529 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: that same way, they had a system of using this 530 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: inc that wouldn't wash off UM to prove that you've 531 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: only voted once. UM. And someone named Catalina praisera Um 532 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: who was a housewife and National Action representative who was 533 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: a pole observer. Uh noticed that they wouldn't let them 534 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: use their own ink. They they would supply this ink 535 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: that would wash off more easily so that they could, 536 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, get get away with voting more than once. 537 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: Even though to your point, then there certainly were observers 538 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: that were in on it as well. Um. And then 539 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: you had something called alchemy laboratories, which sounds desperately sinister, right, 540 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: Gotta love the name alchemy laboratories. Um describes the practice 541 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: of creating secret computer terminals two to function as an 542 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: access point, a weak link in the transit from a 543 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: voting station to the government tabulation center, so you could 544 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: pop in from you know, from point A to point B. 545 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: You could pop in in that space between them, and 546 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: then you could alter things to make it a little 547 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: bit more pro p r I or a lot of 548 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: bit more pro p r I. And these are these 549 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: are just three of the specific allegations. These are three 550 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: that were later backed up with very compelling evidence. But 551 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: despite all of this, the political machine that the p 552 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: r I had built rolled on, who was undeterred Salina's 553 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: became the president of Mexico and a world media eventually 554 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: shifted it's ever mercurial focus to other affairs. Will wait, 555 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 1: you might be saying, isn't there evidence of this? Now? Uh? Yeah, 556 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: I mean the president at the time fully confessed to 557 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: to what happened and to the fact that this was rigged. 558 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: But in the in the years after that election, something 559 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: very interesting happened. There's of course internal investigation and so on. 560 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: And as these concerns arising, they won't go away. Domestically 561 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: in Mexico. Just three years later in the Mexican Congress 562 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: orders all of the physical ballots of the election to 563 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 1: be burned. So if you heard that right, Yeah, they 564 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: literally took all the actual votes without recounting them or 565 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: examining them or so on, and they set them aflame. 566 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: So there goes the proof. It's incredible because we all know, 567 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 1: everyone listening knows that when voting is electronic, no matter 568 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: how it's done, that information, that data, no matter how encrypted, 569 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: can be manipulated. If you are intelligent and have trained 570 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: yourself and our good with systems, you can manipulate that information. 571 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: And now, especially if it's basic information coming from paper ballots, 572 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: that's just recording how many people voted for who, and 573 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: you've got three names on that ballot, and people are 574 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: using ink or you know, um, Chad's they're not using Chad, 575 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: They're they're using ink in this system, at least from 576 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 1: what I understand. Um, if you're getting rid of the 577 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: paper ballots, the only thing the actual receipts. If you 578 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: get rid of those, you can never prove that the 579 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: data on a computer that's stored there is going to 580 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 1: be real or not. Or it's certainly much more difficult. 581 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: I mean there are like computer forensic specialists that can 582 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, see if things were you know, there's there's 583 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: certain like little markers in way. But yes, well in 584 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: the end, in the end, it's whatever was inserted, whatever 585 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: was put into that machine the first time, right, I mean, 586 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: that's what you're going to find. And even if you 587 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: even if it's been manipulated, I'm just saying, like, that's 588 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: the best you can do now is get the initial 589 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: It's the very definition of a paper trail, right, I mean, 590 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: it gives you something physical that you can look at 591 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: and say, see, we we have them here, but they 592 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: didn't have them because they burned them. Uh. Well, and 593 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 1: they did it before their party even had the potential 594 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: of losing power. Right, speak about that the midway point, 595 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: it's three years into a six year term. There are 596 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 1: three more years that will pass, uh, in which this 597 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: new cycle can deviate. But surely you might be asking, 598 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: surely there were consequences. I mean, come on, this is 599 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: a huge country. This is a country that is at 600 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: the forefront of so many things. Surely someone is going 601 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: to you know, at least get scapegoated, right like whenever 602 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: whenever politicians get caught here. Uh, it's kind of a 603 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: hazard of the job working as an underling that one 604 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: day you may be on that stone chair. One day 605 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: you may be the sacrifice at the altar to save 606 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: your boss. But get this, there were no legal ramifications, 607 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: which is none even even when even in two thousand four, 608 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: two thousand five, when Madrid comes out and says, yeah 609 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: we rigged it. Uh, his his old colleagues turned on 610 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: him and they were like, ah did we though. Yeah, 611 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: they completely uh discredited him, um characterized him as being 612 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: some kind of bitter old man, possibly even use some 613 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: little ages tactics against him because he was seventy one 614 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: at the time. But yeah, they also trotted out the 615 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: old trustee that his comments were being taken out of context, 616 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: which is basically like gas lighting the public saying no, no, no, no, 617 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: he said what he said, but you don't understand what 618 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: he really meant, and then didn't give him the opportunity 619 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: to respond or you know, just kind of buried it. 620 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: Uh So it really kind of makes you wonder, what, 621 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: what's what went on in subsequent elections, What's what's going 622 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: on right now. It's kind of like when Coda and 623 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: O'Brien keeps trying to say that he said he takes 624 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: he steals children's shoes and nails them to walls of 625 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: his closet. Was a figure of speech, right, It's exactly 626 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 1: the same thing. Then the worst Easter egg we've never known. 627 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: I love that you put it in though, because I 628 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: just heard him talking about that. Well, it can be 629 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: used in a different way to like, you know, with 630 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: our current president, he'll make comments they'll be taking a 631 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: certain way, and then he'll come I can try to 632 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: pick up the pieces by saying, oh, no, you took 633 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: what I set out of context, and then but ultimately 634 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: it's a it's a form of spin that he's doing 635 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: himself with this megaphone that he has in in the 636 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: form of Twitter and this direct line to the public, 637 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: so he's not even filtering it through PR. He himself 638 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: is saying no, no, no, you don't understand what I meant. 639 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: I meant this, And it's a way of potentially being 640 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: able to say whatever he wants and then have an 641 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: out later. So this isn't quite the same thing, but 642 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: it's it's it's not that far off. I would just 643 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: say it's astonishing too to me, not to make it personal, 644 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: but it's it is astonishing that this is the first 645 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: I'm hearing about this. When our our friend left that voicemail, 646 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: it was the first time I had learned about the 647 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: presidential election. Perhaps because I didn't take enough government classes 648 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: or something and my educational pursuits, but maybe I would 649 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: have heard about it. But dang, I wonder how many 650 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: people out there listening right now knew about this, because 651 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 1: it feels surreal that this could happen. It's also it's 652 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:11,879 Speaker 1: massively disquieting to see how many contemporaneous quotations exist from 653 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: voters in Mexico at the time, who are saying, look, 654 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: the PR I is gonna do something. They're gonna win. 655 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,839 Speaker 1: I'm gonna vote against them, but they're gonna win. And 656 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: it turned out that they were right. And I think 657 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: you guys are making fantastic points. It makes you wonder 658 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: about other elections. We don't talk about it in this 659 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: country as often as we should. We're very fortunate. I 660 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: think we talked about a little bit when it's monologueing 661 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: on a on a previous episode about North Korea. But 662 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: the peaceful passage of power, the peaceful transfer is an 663 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: enormously vulnerable time for any country, and we have as 664 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: a country in the US. Then very very fortunate. These things. 665 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: You know, uh, these things end in war more often 666 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: than you know. A lot of people would become infortable believing. 667 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:06,320 Speaker 1: That's because democracy is not a static institution. The House 668 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: is haunted, and it always has been. It's never been 669 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: a safe institution either. As a resident of any country 670 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: that allows voting, you're probably often told that you're right 671 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: to do so, right, but it's not quite your right, 672 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 1: it's your responsibility. And there are a lot of people 673 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: who say, well, I don't vote because it doesn't matter 674 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,479 Speaker 1: because you know, whomever I vote for, there's always gonna 675 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,320 Speaker 1: be something like the p R I and they're always 676 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: gonna come in and they're always gonna win, right, um, 677 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: But that does not absolve you of that responsibility. That's 678 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: like saying, you know what, I've got up this morning, 679 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make my bed because at some point 680 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: in the future I'll just have to make it again. 681 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: That's not the point. The point of this, the difference 682 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: between making your bed and voting. I guess I'm gonna 683 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: arride this horrible analogy into the sunset is it is 684 00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: a Voting is a responsibility that numerous powers wherever you live, 685 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: numerous powers do not want to see you exercise this 686 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: this thing. Why why ask yourself, like, why why does 687 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: the Mexican election three decades more than three decades from now? 688 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: Why does it seem like a parable Why does it 689 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: seem like a cautionary tale? Why is election Day not 690 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,799 Speaker 1: a holiday in the United States? Why does voting seem 691 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys. I I think we're 692 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, we're We're not the dullest crayons in the box, right, 693 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: we can figure stuff out. But the rules for voting 694 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: are so byzantine. There's so many opportunities for things to 695 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: go wrong. Is it by accident and competence? Is it 696 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 1: by design? Like? What I mean, why do you guys 697 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: think this is the case. Why is voting not a 698 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: holiday here? Well? I don't know then, but you got 699 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: me thinking, I really need to go make up my 700 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: bed as soon as we finish this podcast. Uh, both 701 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: as a real thing that I should do, and as 702 00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: is your analogy, which holds true, because you're right, it's 703 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,760 Speaker 1: it's amazing thing. You can't just lean on your laurels 704 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,839 Speaker 1: and be like, Okay, it worked once. Now I don't 705 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: ever have to do it again. Okay, I did it once. 706 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: You gotta police at yourself. You have to be aware, 707 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: you have to pay attention and not settle for anything 708 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: less than openness of democracy. Uh. And it's not always 709 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: easy to do. And we were living in a time 710 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: where it feels like it's maybe even slipping away even more. 711 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: But I think you know, I would just join you, 712 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: you both of you gentlemen and urging folks, just to 713 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: pay attention and and don't don't give up in the 714 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: process just because you don't think it's working for you 715 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: all the time, because it might not happen overnight, but 716 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: it's definitely something that you have to kind of keep 717 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: keep at and keep after UH to to make work 718 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: or to at least exercise you're part of it working. Okay, 719 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,360 Speaker 1: I got two things, just the concept that we outlined 720 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: earlier in the episode that in Mexico you vote on 721 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: a Sunday, and in the United States you vote on 722 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: a Tuesday. And we live in countries that are capitalist 723 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,879 Speaker 1: and based on people working during work days a lot 724 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: of times to make money to then pay taxes to 725 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,880 Speaker 1: then support the government, and you vote on the people 726 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: that you want to run the government. But just for 727 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: us to do it on a Tuesday versus even if 728 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,360 Speaker 1: it's not a holiday. Ben, if it's just on a weekend, 729 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: I can see that being very beneficial for a large 730 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,399 Speaker 1: portion of people. However, if it's on a weekend, then 731 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: all of the people who work in restaurants, all the 732 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: people you know who work in UH service industry and 733 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 1: hospitality people, I mean, they're not going to have an 734 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: easier time voting if it's on a Sunday. So basically, 735 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,280 Speaker 1: you've kind of like reconvinced me that it absolutely should 736 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: be a holiday. The way we have bank holidays or 737 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: any other holiday where that's all you do that day. 738 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: That's that's it. And there's a lot being made of 739 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: the legality or illegality of mail in votes. I think 740 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: that was a big thing that you know, was fact 741 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 1: checked by Twitter that no, it is perfectly legal to 742 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: mail in your vote um and to do an absentee ballot, etcetera. 743 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,840 Speaker 1: And you know, the very fact that there's rhetoric around 744 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,560 Speaker 1: trying to demonize the practice of doing a mail in 745 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: ballot seems to be part of this whole rigging the 746 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,879 Speaker 1: system situation. I don't know what do you guys think 747 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: about that. It's been a big topic of debate here 748 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: in the United States of of late. The thing is 749 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,799 Speaker 1: part of it goes back to, I would say, kind 750 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: of decentralization of the voting process, the fact that it's 751 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: state by state, the fact that some people who can 752 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: vote in one state, felons for example, may not be 753 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: able to vote in another. Those kind of things inherently 754 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: mean that the circumstances state by state are not equal 755 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: in this regard. And when they are not equal in 756 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:53,280 Speaker 1: this regard, then that means that people are I wouldn't 757 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: say necessarily being disenfranchised, but people are not getting the 758 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: same fair shot at voting and making voice heard that 759 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: people in other states are. Um. This, I mean, this 760 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: is profoundly important. We do have systems like early voting, right, 761 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,839 Speaker 1: absentee voting, and so on. Um. The primary objection now, 762 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 1: the cause, the jour as we approach November in this 763 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 1: country seems to be in this cycle. The idea of 764 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: mail in voting. Um. The opponents of it, correct me 765 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong here. The opponents of it say it 766 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 1: provides an opportunity for voter fraud, right, Um. And then 767 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,680 Speaker 1: the proponents of it say, uh, you know, I would 768 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 1: like to vote without having to risk getting fired. Legally, 769 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: in this country, an employer does have to allow you 770 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 1: to vote, to go vote, but how on earth is 771 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: that enforced? Right? And when uh, you know there there's 772 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,000 Speaker 1: also a pandemic going on. So if you're you can 773 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: ask people to risk some time out of their day 774 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 1: to vote as an educated voter. But if you are 775 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: putting them in a position where you're forcing them to 776 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: expose themselves to a potentially fatal infection, I mean, that's 777 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: that's not something. There's not anything in the constitution that 778 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 1: says you must risk your life to vote UM, so 779 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 1: it could lead to self selecting disenfranchisement. I mean the 780 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: one to your Pointnal, the big thing about mail in voting. 781 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:32,360 Speaker 1: The two big ideas at loggerheads here are the idea 782 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,680 Speaker 1: that UM voting is important in this country and we 783 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,560 Speaker 1: should therefore make it as easy as possible for as 784 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:44,640 Speaker 1: many people as possible to voice their opinion UM. And 785 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: then the thing opposed to that as the idea that 786 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: someone will make what thousands or hundreds of thousands of 787 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,320 Speaker 1: UH fake ballots and put those in. But that would 788 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 1: take I think we walked through it before. That would 789 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: take so much work for such a small return. You 790 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 1: would have to be super strategic about it. You would 791 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: have to I don't know. It seems I'm not gonna 792 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 1: say it's made up concerned because there are cases of 793 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,480 Speaker 1: voter fraud, but it seems to be a concern that 794 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: is being exploited and misrepresented in the discourse today. Well, 795 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: it's also like not not you know, let's go beyond 796 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:27,440 Speaker 1: disenfranchisement to disenchanted nests. I guess if you're already feeling, 797 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, like why bother? And then you're inconvenience to 798 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,160 Speaker 1: the point of feeling like you have to go out 799 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,640 Speaker 1: to the polls and risk your life and your health 800 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,279 Speaker 1: to vote. You're probably gonna stay home. And that's something 801 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 1: that I think is being exploited as well, that level 802 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: of disenchantedness towards the process and this pandemic and potentially 803 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,840 Speaker 1: getting an outcome by saying, oh, no, no, no, no, no, 804 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,440 Speaker 1: mail ends you gotta go, you gotta go in person. 805 00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 1: When the president himself didn't do that. He mailed his 806 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,960 Speaker 1: vote in uh and drove past the precinct where he 807 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,840 Speaker 1: could have voted in person. Would has been a historical 808 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: thing that presidents have done uh and made a you know, 809 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,360 Speaker 1: big kind of pr move out of it. For whatever 810 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,360 Speaker 1: the reasoning behind it is, it is a thing that 811 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: we've always remember. I always remember seeing the president go 812 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,359 Speaker 1: to the ballot box and vote for himself. Yeah, that's 813 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,920 Speaker 1: the thing. Maybe if you are to to that enormously 814 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:24,799 Speaker 1: important point about disenchantment, maybe if you are disillusioned disenchanted, well, 815 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: first off, you have every right to be. UM. Maybe 816 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: if you are think about this. I I once tried 817 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 1: to explain to someone who is very anti voting. UM 818 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:41,960 Speaker 1: once tried to explain the most realistic on the ground, selfish, 819 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: self motivated reason to vote, even if you don't care 820 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,319 Speaker 1: about other people. Here's where you vote. It is you 821 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:54,440 Speaker 1: buying the right to complain for another four years. It 822 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: is you you now by because you voted because in 823 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 1: some minute, infinitesimal way, you you tried to do something, 824 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: so now you can talk about it. If you didn't 825 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:13,680 Speaker 1: try to vote, then uh, why why are you? Why 826 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 1: are you pretending like you care in year two? You 827 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,839 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Because you didn't care that day 828 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,359 Speaker 1: you had the jets to do something about whatever your 829 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: problem is. And and that that sounds cold and brutal, um, 830 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,759 Speaker 1: but it but it is true, and it should be 831 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: a motivating factor. And of course voting is like the 832 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,000 Speaker 1: bottom of the barrel kind of thing. You know, you 833 00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,560 Speaker 1: can get active with your community. You can vote in 834 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,040 Speaker 1: municipal elections, you can make your voice heard at town 835 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,400 Speaker 1: hall meetings. But of course then it becomes an issue 836 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 1: of time, right because to your point, Matt, there is 837 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,879 Speaker 1: a capitalist society. Um. Eventually, your employer is probably gonna say, look, 838 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 1: you can't keep going to these controller meetings. You have 839 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,560 Speaker 1: a job. What even as a controller. I'm kidding it's 840 00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: a cliche at this point, and not know what a 841 00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,279 Speaker 1: controller is. It's just the most esoteric sounding job. It's 842 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: something to do with like it's like being a treasurer. 843 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: I don't really know. Still, Oh no, and I figured 844 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: this out. It's a um it's an accountant. It was 845 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: a financial thing, got it? Yeah? Man, those are important, 846 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: uh I gosh, okay, just and we're talking about all 847 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 1: this stuff. I would say, go find the old clip 848 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,360 Speaker 1: of George Carlin talking about choosing whether or not to 849 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: stay at home and family friendly, show pleasure oneself versus 850 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:43,239 Speaker 1: going in and voting. H just choosing between those two things. 851 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 1: I would listen to that clip from George Carlin. It's 852 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,760 Speaker 1: a it's pretty, it's it's yeah, it's kind of Weben 853 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:54,360 Speaker 1: was saying, basically, Um, so what I would what I 854 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,360 Speaker 1: would just note here is that this thing that occurred 855 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:05,840 Speaker 1: in in Mexico where an election was just kind of stolen, 856 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 1: just it just kind of happened through official terms by 857 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,160 Speaker 1: people in power. You know. The question for me then, 858 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: is well, what happens to the to those people who 859 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,200 Speaker 1: were in power when this is just kind of an 860 00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,920 Speaker 1: open thing now You can look at articles on univision 861 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 1: dot com and you can see this election being talked about. 862 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 1: You can see it being talked about with relation to 863 00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,920 Speaker 1: the most recent presidential election that occurred in I believe, 864 00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:40,560 Speaker 1: where one of the officials man named Manuel Bartlett, who 865 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,880 Speaker 1: was a part of that election. He has actually been 866 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,400 Speaker 1: appointed to one of the you know, at one of 867 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,960 Speaker 1: the higher administration levels within the sitting government by the 868 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,319 Speaker 1: then president elect Um. I believe it's Obra Door who 869 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,120 Speaker 1: was elected. So you can see where even if you're 870 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:03,560 Speaker 1: an official who took part in something like this, if 871 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,520 Speaker 1: you're still on the same team as the people that 872 00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,839 Speaker 1: maintained power, you're going to get to continue playing. Basically, Yeah, hey, 873 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,120 Speaker 1: you know what that reminds me of such a tangent. 874 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: One of the guys you got locked up for the 875 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,719 Speaker 1: Enron scandal is not only out of prison, but he's 876 00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,279 Speaker 1: getting back into the energy sector in a big way. 877 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,520 Speaker 1: He's super pumped about it. And is he gonna do asteroids? 878 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,520 Speaker 1: Oh god, who knows? Manuel Bartlett, though, I'm so glad 879 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned that specific name. He was the he was 880 00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:39,160 Speaker 1: the president of the Federal Election Commission in the person 881 00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: and kind of like Harold's the official decision, and uh 882 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,080 Speaker 1: then he was appointed you know, fast forward, um, as 883 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:51,920 Speaker 1: he said, he was appointed the director of Mexico's Federal 884 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,600 Speaker 1: Electricity Commission. So you know, he's not handling elections anymore 885 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:01,879 Speaker 1: at least, But computers need to like tricity, that's where 886 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,480 Speaker 1: you can manipulate the vote. So is this is this 887 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:12,080 Speaker 1: a case of UM one bad institutional apple? Where is 888 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,359 Speaker 1: this a cautionary tale that isn't told as often as 889 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,919 Speaker 1: it should be? Is this just one of many examples? 890 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 1: If you are someone in the US who does vote, 891 00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 1: you know, regardless of what degree you find yourself participating, UM, 892 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,359 Speaker 1: then now is the time to go go check your 893 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,279 Speaker 1: voter registration because depending on what state you live in, 894 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 1: you might be surprised to find whether or not you're 895 00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: on the rolls. This happens any number of times for 896 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,279 Speaker 1: any number of reasons. Not again, not all you know, 897 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:57,480 Speaker 1: supervillain conspiratorial stuff. Uh, some just pure incompetence, or some 898 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,360 Speaker 1: just the hazard of a machine with mill ends of 899 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,080 Speaker 1: moving parts. But it is it is in your best 900 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,920 Speaker 1: interest because even if you don't think your vote counts, 901 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,000 Speaker 1: you don't want to be someone on social media in 902 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:15,839 Speaker 1: like twenty two talking about something. And so when ask 903 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,600 Speaker 1: you if you voted and you say didn't, because that 904 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,279 Speaker 1: will remove what people will see as your right to 905 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,359 Speaker 1: have an opinion. And we're not talking about the three 906 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,520 Speaker 1: or four of us. Are you listening now, We're talking 907 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,480 Speaker 1: about the people you talk to later. Put your money 908 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,360 Speaker 1: where your mouth is, that's right. And if you do 909 00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,680 Speaker 1: want to find out what your registration is or what 910 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,680 Speaker 1: your status is as a voter within the US, if 911 00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,440 Speaker 1: you have a search engine, you can find it very easily. 912 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,840 Speaker 1: There will be a dot gov website for your state. 913 00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,360 Speaker 1: In all likelihood there's one for our state and several 914 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,799 Speaker 1: others that I just spot checked, where you can just 915 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:54,000 Speaker 1: type in a few things about your uh, your info. 916 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,600 Speaker 1: It's usually your date of birth, your name, and where 917 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,239 Speaker 1: you are, what county you're in, and you'll be able 918 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,000 Speaker 1: to find it. So we want to know what you think, 919 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,280 Speaker 1: not just about elections in general, not just about the 920 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,400 Speaker 1: future of elections in your country abroad. We'd like to 921 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,280 Speaker 1: hear specific examples from your neck of the global woods. 922 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 1: What what what shenanigans were about? Uh? You know, what 923 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,280 Speaker 1: what specific instances do you recall and were there were 924 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,280 Speaker 1: there specific concrete ramifications. Because the people who stole an 925 00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:35,280 Speaker 1: election in Mexico not too long ago, why possibly, while 926 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,640 Speaker 1: us and your fellow listeners were alive, those people got 927 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:44,680 Speaker 1: away with it. Those people got away with stealing an election. Uh. 928 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,160 Speaker 1: And that's that's just baffling, that's uh. I I would 929 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,720 Speaker 1: assume it's more difficult than say, stealing a candy bar 930 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,080 Speaker 1: or a car. Um. But you know, maybe we just 931 00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:57,840 Speaker 1: have to give it the old college go. And what 932 00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,959 Speaker 1: what happens when you like, let's say this is acknowled unequivocally, 933 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,480 Speaker 1: we find this out about our government, this happened. Do 934 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,920 Speaker 1: you render every decision the illegitimate government made over the 935 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,640 Speaker 1: course of their tenure like null and void? Like there's 936 00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,360 Speaker 1: there's really no historical precedent for this. Uh. And their 937 00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:18,000 Speaker 1: choice in Mexico was just to pretend it never happened. Well, 938 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,360 Speaker 1: Uni Univision makes just a really good point of what 939 00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,280 Speaker 1: really occurred when they stole the election. The p r 940 00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,000 Speaker 1: I is that they pushed back by six years the 941 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:33,680 Speaker 1: true in statement of democracy within Mexico basically is what 942 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,760 Speaker 1: they're saying. Um. And that maybe that's not the full truth, 943 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,800 Speaker 1: because who's to say the elections prior to that. We're 944 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:45,000 Speaker 1: also stolen in some way, but but still it kind 945 00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,120 Speaker 1: of gives you that feeling. Then well, if that one 946 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,600 Speaker 1: wasn't real and we were all made to believe that 947 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,640 Speaker 1: it was real, then there's no way to prove that 948 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,880 Speaker 1: the other ones were right or legit. It's just an 949 00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,560 Speaker 1: e roading of trust, I think, and we want to 950 00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:00,760 Speaker 1: know what you think. You can right to us in 951 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,880 Speaker 1: all the usual places on social media's or where conspiracy 952 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,720 Speaker 1: stuff conspiracy stuff show. You can join our Facebook group 953 00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,400 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy. You can also should the 954 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,800 Speaker 1: spirit so move you find us as individuals. I am 955 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,560 Speaker 1: at Ben Bowlen hs W on Twitter. I am in 956 00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,080 Speaker 1: a burst of creativity at Ben Bolan on Instagram. I 957 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,000 Speaker 1: am at how now Noel Brown just hanging out on 958 00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,120 Speaker 1: Instagram actively. I'm on Twitter, but I just kind of 959 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:28,919 Speaker 1: lark so I don't even throw that one out there. 960 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:33,000 Speaker 1: And I'm met Frederick Underscore. I heard. I think maybe 961 00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,680 Speaker 1: you'll find it or not. And if you don't want 962 00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,080 Speaker 1: to use Instagram or any of those other socials, you 963 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,600 Speaker 1: can give us a call. Our number is one eight 964 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. Give us 965 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,800 Speaker 1: a call. You can leave a message. You'll hear Ben's voice, 966 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: You'll let you know what to do, UM, and of 967 00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,360 Speaker 1: what you do like leave that message, it will be 968 00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,880 Speaker 1: about three minutes. Then you can call back again if 969 00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,200 Speaker 1: you want to. If that wasn't enough time, UM, feel 970 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:00,960 Speaker 1: free to give us a call anytime. It just goes 971 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,480 Speaker 1: straight to voicemail and all three of us have access 972 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,920 Speaker 1: to it, so we will be listening. And if you 973 01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,600 Speaker 1: don't want to do any of that stuff, why not 974 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,760 Speaker 1: just send us a good old fashioned email. We are 975 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:31,880 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't 976 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,440 Speaker 1: want you to know. Is a production of I Heart Radio. 977 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,000 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 978 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,000 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 979 01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:40,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,