1 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: I was searching for a way to self mandicre. I 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: needed to feel better. I was suffocating, and the same 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: way that you would fight for breath if somebody was 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: choking you, I was fighting for I was fighting for 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: something that would allow me to breathe for a minute. 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: My gosh, that's profound. And the only thing that worked 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: is when I heard other people. Okay, I'm not proud 8 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: of that. 9 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, 10 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 12 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: inner city Memphis. And the last part, somehow it led 13 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team. That 14 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: movie is called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people 16 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 2: in nice suits using big words that nobody else uses 17 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of 18 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: normal folks, US just you and me deciding, hey, maybe 19 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: I can help you. That's what Darren. 20 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: Babcock has done. Darren hit rock bottom, as you just heard, 21 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: which makes his redemption story even more beautiful. 22 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: He went on to accidentally found Bontin Farms, one of 23 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: the largest urban farms in the country. 24 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: Yet it's not really about cultivating vegetables, it's about cultivating people. 25 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: I cannot wait for you to meet Darren right after 26 00:01:52,440 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: these brief messages from our general sponsors. Darren Bibcock, what's up. 27 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: It's great to be here. Such an honor to meet you. 28 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: They sent me over the documentary that they did. We 29 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: have so many parallels that my heart bled with your art. 30 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: It was just an amazing story. And so it's an 31 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: honor to be here. 32 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, and thank you for spending some time 33 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: away from Dallas to join us here in Memphis. And 34 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: you've been here two days, so you got to spend 35 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: a little time looking around Memphis yesterday. 36 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: I hope you've you've enjoyed our fair city. Yeah, great hospitality, 37 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: some amazing people doing just profound, beautiful work. And like 38 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: we said kind of when we met, just the grit 39 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: and tenacity of the people that are like growing uphill 40 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: really steep hills and do an amazing work. It's been 41 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: beautiful to see. 42 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: I really really appreciate that tell us about you know, 43 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: I found it really interesting just the brief explanation of 44 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: kind of a city boy living a duality life on 45 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: the farm and the irony of that, that upbringing and 46 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 2: where you are now, which we will certainly get to 47 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: where you are now, but go forward on how you 48 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: grew up. 49 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: Well, I'm a Texas Panhandle guy. I love this part 50 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: of my story. But I'm not sure exactly how my 51 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: family got here. But they landed in Tennessee, and my 52 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: great grandfather fell In was a sharecropper and fell in 53 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: love with the daughter of the family who owned the 54 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: land that they farmed, which were forbidden at the time, 55 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: and they were only fourteen, and so they stole a 56 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: horse and a lope to the Texas Panhandle. Is that right? 57 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: So really your roots are in Tennessee. Well, yeah, but 58 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: I don't know where. It's just that's how you know family, 59 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: and knowing where I came from is important to me. 60 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: And those generations didn't talk, and so I want my 61 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: children to know where they came from and what battles 62 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: were fought for them to have the life they have today. 63 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: And so my grandmother and grandfather told us some of 64 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: these stories, and that's that's what they wrote down and 65 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: told us. He was a sharecropper. He was a sharecropper. Yeah, 66 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: stole a horse, migrated to Texas and got a job leveling, 67 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: pulling a mule and a plow, leveling fields for ol 68 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: field storage tanks. And there were no housing there, so 69 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: they lived in a dugout, a hole in the ground, 70 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: your kid. And when my great grandmother got pregnant with 71 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: my grandmother, they I guess the job was winding down 72 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: and went the chuck wagons that would come to feed them. 73 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: It was too cumbersome to travel with the cookshack on 74 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: the back of the wagon, so they would leave it 75 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: behind and wherever they were going next they just build 76 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: a new cookshack. So my family got to move out 77 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: of the dugout into the cookshack and that's where my 78 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: grandmother was born. We come from really humble, blue collar. 79 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 2: Because phenomenal And where's that you said in the Panhandle? 80 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: Like where, Well, it was around mule Shoe where this 81 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: mule Shoe, the booming metropolis of Muleshie never developed much 82 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: past those old days. He wound up establishing his own 83 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: farm in between Pampa and Groom, which are north the 84 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,559 Speaker 1: east of Amillo. And then my dad was the first 85 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: one in our family to go to college and was 86 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: a banker in Amrello. And that's I was raised in 87 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: a small city in the Panhandle of Texas, but with 88 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: those values from that, from the way our family formed 89 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: and grew up in a Christian home, I didn't get it. 90 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: I think as a as a as I'm matured, I 91 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: was looking for things, not to get it because I 92 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: wanted to do what I wanted to do. I didn't 93 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: want to surrender submit to anything. So I participated, but 94 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: it was never something that I bought into. And I 95 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: was raised in some ways contradictorily about work ethic and 96 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: that you could do anything you put your mind to, 97 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: and the value of character in a man, and so 98 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: that was everything to me. And since I didn't subscribe 99 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: to the faith component of it, it was all about 100 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: me what I wanted to do and what price was 101 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: I willing to pay to get what I wanted. And 102 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: fast forward, I get a scholarship to go to University 103 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: of Oklahoma to wrestle, and we go there. The first 104 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: day nineteen eighty four, we had three Olympians come back 105 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: to gold medalist. 106 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: I was about to say, dude, I don't know wrestling 107 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: is not huge in this area. The high school savath 108 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: and all. But anybody that knows anything, it's kind of 109 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: like Oklahoma and I think Iowa. But if you wrestle 110 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: at Oklahoma and you get a scholarship wrestler at Oklahoma. 111 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: They're really good. Yeah, you were a tough dude, because 112 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: we had a very good team. My first two years there. 113 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: We were ranked top in the country and we wound 114 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: up being victims to Dan Gable's legacy of nine national 115 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: championship champion ships in row. We were his. He was Iowa. 116 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: Oh he was Iowa. Oh. Yeah, So you're right, it's 117 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: at that time. The landscapes changed today, but at that 118 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: time it was Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, and Iowa. 119 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: Those were the powerhouses every year. There's been a lot 120 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: of equity across the landscape now, so there's that's that's changed. 121 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: But at that time, those were the four top teams, 122 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: and you wrestled with Olympians on your team. Yeah, and 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: I just I got there. You know, coming out of 124 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: high school, you're a star. Everybody that shows up there 125 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: was the guy. I had to be. The city. You 126 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: can go to Oklahoma, but then you go to that environment, 127 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: and you're not. And I just all the confidence that 128 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: I came in there with just I just left me. 129 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: I don't belong here. And the coach sits us down. 130 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: We had the largest recruiting class that we've ever had, 131 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: top ranked team in the country. And he says, look 132 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: around the wall where all the champions, the pictures of 133 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:58,119 Speaker 1: all the world champions, Olympic champions, National champions, and he said, 134 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, out of this whole room, there may be 135 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: three of you that get your picture on that wall. 136 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: And the numbers are working against you because there's gonna 137 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: be ten of you that have already seen your beast days. 138 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: There's going to be ten or twelve of you that 139 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: don't do the work in the classroom to wind up 140 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 1: being able to earn the right to have your picture 141 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: on the wall. There's gonna be some of you that 142 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: want the college experience and to chase girls whatever, but 143 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: those that are willing to do whatever it takes to 144 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: accomplish what you want to do. Everything here is for 145 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: you. You have all that that you have, the conditions to 146 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: become a champion at the University of Oklahoma exists. What 147 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: are you going to do with it? And they handed 148 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: out these shirts that said Oklahoma Wrestling. On the back 149 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: it said, if it is to be, it's up to me. 150 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: That's what I've been told my whole life. That's phenomenal. 151 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: Did whole Cogan rustle there, I'm just a different type 152 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: for us. 153 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: Interestingly, if it is to be, it's up to me, 154 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: which fed into that hard work ethic and that family 155 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 2: dynamic of character and everything else, which is fantaslastic. 156 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with. 157 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 2: That in balance, But if it's to be, it's up 158 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:13,239 Speaker 2: to me, makes you your own God. 159 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: Which will be, which is a house of cards and 160 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: will come crashing down at some point, which it did 161 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: for me. 162 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: So you're at Oklahoma. You're a wrestler on scholarship, which 163 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 2: means you got life. I mean you're you're rolling right, 164 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: and well you. 165 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: Have the life that if you accept that scholarship, you're theirs. Yeah, 166 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: and that much of a life. We did what they said. Yeah, 167 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: so I. 168 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 2: Read that you went on a run one day. Tell 169 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: us about the run, the one that ended at the 170 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 2: Kappa House. Oh and what that led to? 171 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, so that time a University of Oklahoma, the 172 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: athletic facilities were separate from the college and they were 173 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: really discouraged the comingling. It was pretty rough. We had 174 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: some shootings and stuff at the in the athletic side 175 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: of things. So really yeah, if you read the book, 176 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: I think it was in Barry Switzer's book. I can't 177 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: remember what it was called Bootleggers. Anyway, Yeah, it was 178 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: a pretty rough time. We had security on around the 179 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: athletic stuff that the rest of the school didn't have. 180 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: And when we did well, the coaches would take us 181 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: on a run through the campus and we got to 182 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: see what college life was. Wow, I put the with 183 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: the what was really going on? And this particular night 184 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: we ran all through and then when we finished the run, 185 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: he left us in the campus like where all the 186 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: college kids are all. 187 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: That's almost light here, wild dogs go eat. 188 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And the funny part of it is is 189 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: that before that day, my mom had run into a 190 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: family friend in a grocery store. The Knights. They're good, 191 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: they have mutual good friends. That was an offensive lineman 192 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: at the University of Oklahoma. That's how the different. They 193 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 1: knew each other and they're like, well, like families do. 194 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: When they hadn't seen each other, Well, how are your kids. 195 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: Where are they? It's like, Oh, Darren's great, he's at 196 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: the University of Oklahoma. He got to go wrestle there. 197 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: He's like, how are your kids. He's like, Oh, Marcy 198 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: just she went she's a freshman at the University Oklahoma too. 199 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: We should get them together. So as mothers do, they 200 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: each give phone numbers out to and I'm like, uh, 201 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: you know, and threw it away. I'm sure she did 202 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: the same. And then after this run that day, we're 203 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: sitting in the middle of campus and as we're walking 204 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: by all the all the sorority houses and all the 205 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: different stuff, you could see these windows that were windows 206 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: for a basement, and the basement was filled with these girls. 207 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: That's a good place to stop. It's like, hey, we 208 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: need to go see what's going on. So it was 209 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: a study hall for the Kappa Kappa Gamma Pledges, and 210 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: and my mom had mentioned that Marcia was a Kappa 211 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: Kapa Gamma pledge and so I'm like we walked in, 212 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: I was like, which one of you is Marcy Knight 213 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: And they all started giggling and then eventually said, oh, 214 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: she's skipping, And so that's kind of how that started. 215 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: They all told their friends that some guy had come 216 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: through asking about her. And the next day we were 217 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: in our dorms after practice and there were these girls 218 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: in the hallway which were forbidden, so somehow they'd snuck 219 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: in the dorms and we met that night and went 220 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: out on our first date, and eventually, when we graduated, 221 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: she became my wife. 222 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: That's kind of like an all American, kind of wonderful, 223 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 2: cute little story. So what happened when you and Marcia 224 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: got married? It's time to start life? Yeah, we just 225 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: started life. 226 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: You know. I'm an entrepreneur by spirit, so how God 227 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: wired me started my first company at fourteen or fifteen, 228 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: And when I got out of college, got a job 229 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: with Scott Paper, and my plan was to use them 230 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: to learn more about business so that I could be 231 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: a more successful entrepreneur. And is that Scott Papers in 232 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: the toilet paper? Yeah, yeah, Scott Paper. It's it's rough 233 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: and Charlie Park Now. 234 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but Scott Paper was like, back when I was 235 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: in school, was the worst toilet paper on earth. Yeah, 236 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: it was like it's rough and tough and doesn't cape 237 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 2: crap off anyone. 238 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: You can say that now that they're out of business. Yeah, okay, good, 239 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: I don't I don't think they ever were going to 240 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: sponsor the show, so whatever. Yeah, all right, So you 241 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: got to work for Scott Paper, went to work for 242 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: Scott Paper Company. We got married, bought a house in Tulsa, Oklahoma, 243 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: and cool town. I had an offer to get promoted 244 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: to New York City, and we were young and thought 245 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: that would be fun. It was a really it was. 246 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: It was It's Scott Paper Company. It was this. I 247 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: worked on the commercial side, so we would We didn't 248 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: do toilet paper as much as things that businesses used 249 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: to operate, and bought our first house. Got this opportunity 250 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: to move to New York City, which was kind of 251 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: an opportunity to take about tim leaps off the corporate ladder. 252 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: If you survived that, that was a testing ground to 253 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: see if you had what it take to move on up. 254 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: So I was excited about that and went on a 255 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: trip there, came back, and when I got home, she's like, 256 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: I've got some news for you. I'm pregnant. It's like, oh, 257 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: that changes things. So we thought about it and just said, gosh, 258 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: if I am going to be successful in this world, 259 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to always be required to live in the 260 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: biggest markets in the world, and is that the life 261 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: we want for our family. We decided no, so resigned 262 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: from that and started started over. But we had our 263 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: first child there in Tulsa, and then moved back to 264 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: Borger where her family was from, and had opportunity to 265 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: help her father run beer distributorship that he had, and 266 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: that's where our second child was born. What was it 267 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: like running a beer distributorship and really conservative Panhandle of 268 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: Texas in those days. Well, it was another part of 269 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: the beer that everybody drinks back when, back then, you 270 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: know it was. He had one of the first distributorships 271 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: that was opened up back when they you know, back 272 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: when Coors was kind of the most majestic beer brand 273 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: in the world. They only sold in Colorado, and so 274 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: when he opened his distributorship, he was one of the 275 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: only places outside of Colorado where you could buy Coors. 276 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: You could not get it east of the Missipi River. 277 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 2: It's spoken the Bandit spoke in the bandits about that very. 278 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: Thing, which is odd. But yeah, yeah, so it was. 279 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: It was fun. But I will tell you this is 280 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: another This was another kind of setback in me continuing 281 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: to search out what I believe about life and who 282 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: I am and what my place is in it and 283 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: who created it all and what does that mean. But 284 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: when he moved to Border and they bought that beer 285 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: distributorship like families do in the Bible Belt, they went 286 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: to the church and and we're going to become members, 287 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: and they turned them away because of the business he 288 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: was in, and that really wounded them. And that kind 289 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: of just affirmed other kind of things that had happened 290 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: like that through my life, that this is not something 291 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: I want to do. So I went further away. And yeah, 292 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: so that goes on, and then at some point you 293 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: guys moved up to Oregon, right, So I want to 294 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: I want to start a business. I want to live it. 295 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: The first year after after my freshman year, to keep 296 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: some of us that were inclined to get in trouble 297 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: from getting fat and and them having to bail us 298 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: out of the county jail, our coach would send us 299 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: on to go with him to do wrestling camps. And 300 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: we start in Sandiego and go all the way up 301 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: the west coast. And the first time I saw the 302 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest, I was like, why did my family stop 303 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: in mules Shoot, Texas like Tennessee is beautiful, and then 304 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: you get to the pandental, it's not like, why didn't 305 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: you think let's keep going till we find something that 306 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: looks like what we came from. And I know why 307 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: because they had a stolen horse and that was publishable 308 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: by death in those days, and they were looking for 309 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: a place with nobody. I think it's probably because it 310 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: was flat. Okay, if you're migrating across the country and 311 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: you find a flat spot, that's probably a good thing. 312 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: That's a pretty good place. But yeah, we moved to 313 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: Oregon and started a small business there and which was 314 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: we bought the rights for Schlatsky's Delhi. I don't know 315 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: if you're familiar with them, Double Meat original. Yeah, it's 316 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: the best sandwich ever made. And our plan was to 317 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: leverage that into commercial real estate business. We wanted to 318 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: buy the land and buildings that we occupied. If we 319 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: could have those restaurants be successful for ten years, we 320 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: would own those properties outright and then we could migrate 321 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: into commercial real estate. Two years after we got there, 322 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: we finally had a chance to take a vacation, Like 323 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, we were grinding twenty four to seven, trying 324 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: to get and you have two kids, right, We have 325 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: two little kids, three and four years old. And we 326 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: had met some friends there that took us on a 327 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: surfing trip down to Baja California. And right before we went, 328 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: my wife had gotten some like a tumor on her tongue. 329 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: It's like an ulcer, but it didn't go away, and 330 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: they I've gotten those there they bother you. But you know, 331 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: when if it doesn't ever go away, you're like, what's 332 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: going on. So she'd gone to the doctor and it's like, 333 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: we think it's a food allergy. And you know, I 334 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: didn't eat for five years in college and she was 335 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: skinny and athletic, and we love to eat. So we 336 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: didn't take that very seriously, being our age and it 337 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: and it just seemed to when she would do the diet, 338 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: it would kind of ease back, and when she wouldn't, 339 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: it would So she thought that's what it was, and 340 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: then it bothered her so much that she started adhering 341 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: to the diet and then it didn't have any effect 342 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: on it. So right before we go on this trip, 343 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: she goes to the doctor and they do a biopsy, 344 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: back then we had just gotten answer machines, like, we 345 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: didn't have voicemail or anything yet. So we get back 346 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: home and your answer machine lights bleeping and we listened 347 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: to them, and one of them from the doctors, saying, 348 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: we got your biopsy back. You need to come in. 349 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: So we go in. H yeah, you hate and it's 350 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: thirty years old. We didn't know. I mean we I 351 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: don't think. I didn't think anything can kill me. Nobody 352 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: gets sick of thirty. You're both healthy. Life is good. Yeah. Yeah. 353 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: So we went in and they tell us it's cancer, 354 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: and again I don't think it registered with us. We'll 355 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: like the like what that really means? Again, I think 356 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: it was our age. We've had a lot of people 357 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: suffer from cancer and pass away from cancer our family, 358 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: so I know how danger it is, just not dangerous. 359 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: And so we start this journey of all the horrible 360 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: things they do to you to try to help you 361 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: overcome cancer. Really three things. They either poison you to 362 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: the verge of death, hoping that it dies before you do, 363 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: burn it out, or cut it out. And they did 364 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: all three of those things, and two years from the 365 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: date after she was diagnosed, she passed away. 366 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But 367 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: first I want to play you this really awesome voicemail 368 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 2: that we got from one of our premium members, Donald Fry. 369 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 3: My name is Don Fry. I passed her two small 370 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 3: member churches south of Atlanta. I first heard about Army 371 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 3: and Normal Folks when the Bill was interviewed by Kira 372 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 3: Davis on her podcast. 373 00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: In Juna twenty. 374 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: When Bill started saying that the podcasts would feature stories 375 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 3: about normal people who identified a need and then we're 376 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 3: doing extraordinary things in our communities and beyond to meet them, 377 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 3: it had my immediate attention. I think John Ponder may 378 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: have been the first episode that I listened to, but 379 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 3: I was immediately hooked. I love the long interview format. 380 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: I feel like we're all just sitting around a kitchen 381 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 3: table talking together. You know. As a pastor, I'm always 382 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: on the lookout for stories of redemption and people reaching 383 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 3: the forgotten in our society. I've used a number of 384 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 3: stories as illustrations and sermons and lessons, such as Rodney 385 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 3: Smith and his lawnmowing and as well as Luke Michelson 386 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 3: in his beds for kids. But probably the biggest thing 387 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 3: I did was I gave a sermon called Don't be 388 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: a Turkey Christian, following the themes from Bill short Thanksgiving episode. 389 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: This past year. 390 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 3: I became a Premium member because to me, I don't 391 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 3: consider it as supporting army and normal folks as a podcast, 392 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 3: and instead I see it as contributing to the start 393 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 3: of a movement that we so desperately need if we're 394 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: ever going to fix the problems that we face as 395 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 3: a nation. And I want to be part of that army. 396 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: So I got to be honest with you. 397 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: When I hear Donald's comments that we just shared with you, 398 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 2: I get a. 399 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: Little chill up my spine, frankly. 400 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: Because Donald, that is exactly what we're trying to do. Sure, 401 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 2: we're trying to create a piece of entertainment that is interesting, 402 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: that'll make you laugh, hopefully on occasion when I'm accidentally 403 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 2: humorous and funny and maybe tug on your heartstrings, and 404 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: you know, there's got to be entertain value so people 405 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: will listen. But the overarching idea is to create a 406 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: movement of people that don't care about who you are, 407 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 2: where you're from, or what you're about, but are celebrating 408 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 2: the good that we can do for one another our communities. 409 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: And to hear Donald say that he's used some of 410 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 2: our thoughts in a sermons and that he is pushing 411 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: the narrative of the Army of Normal Folks podcast, but 412 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: also the movement out into. 413 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: His community. 414 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: Is just phenomenal and I'm more than grateful for folks 415 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: like Donald. So if any of you would be open 416 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: to becoming a premium member of the Army as well 417 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: and help us build this movement, please visit Normalfolks dot 418 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: u us slash premium and if you be interested in 419 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: leaving us a voice smell as well about why you're 420 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 2: a member of the Army and how it's impacted you, 421 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 2: make sure to call the Badger hotline, named after our 422 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 2: boy Badger, the truck driver who recommended we set it up. 423 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 2: The number is nine oh one three five two one 424 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 2: three six six. Guys, we're not just trying to entertain you, 425 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 2: We're trying to interact with you. Call us, email us, 426 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 2: let us know what's on your mind and we will respond. 427 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 428 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: I just I had It was just such a like 429 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 1: everything collided and collapsed on me at one time. It 430 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: was everything that I thought I believed about the world 431 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: wasn't true. I couldn't outwork this, I couldn't help her 432 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: through that journey. If it's to be, it's up to 433 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: me that no longer holds true. False. 434 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: God, you wanted to live more than anything in the world, 435 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: and it was not up to you. 436 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: Nope. So not only do you lose your wife and 437 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: you have this business you're trying to grow and now 438 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: a five and six year old boy, you're also at 439 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: a at a at a personal crisis of identity and 440 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: what you believed in your whole life. Yeah, is the 441 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: perfect storm. So how'd you handle it? And the worst 442 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: way possible. What I remember about it is I remember, 443 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: after that happened, our families had sacrificed so much to 444 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: care for us through that journey that I just want 445 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: wanted them to go home and start their life back. 446 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: So I send everybody home, go home, live your life. 447 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: I'm good. I got it. And secondly, anything that has 448 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: anything to do with cancer get the hell out of 449 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: my house. That's all I remember. And then I started 450 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: experiencing things that were really foreign to me. I had 451 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: lost the flavor of life. Never I don't know what 452 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: that means. But I couldn't. I couldn't get up in 453 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: the morning. I didn't want to do anything. I couldn't 454 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: even I didn't know what that was, but that's what 455 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: it was. I just thought I was dying, Like it 456 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: feels like you're suffocating internally, but it's never happened to me. 457 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. We're two thousand miles 458 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: away from home. You know. I've experienced an awful lot 459 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: of physical it's not fun wrestling, well, yeah, fighting and 460 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: wrestling and doing what meatheads do, knowledge the scholarship boys do. Yeah, 461 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: but I've never experienced emotional pain like that like I 462 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: would I would get I'd take a punch in the 463 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: nose any day over having that your heartbreak. And yeah, 464 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to deal with it. So you boys, 465 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: how how are they handling it? Yeah? I don't know. 466 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: That's stuff too. Yeah, I think that. I think that 467 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: part of it is for all of us. It was surreal. 468 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: It was like, I don't know that. I think it 469 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: took a long time to come to grips with what 470 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: had just really happened. And I think that was probably 471 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: more so with them. You know, they had to ever 472 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: experienced somebody die that they loved. So I think it 473 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: just took a long time for that to set in, 474 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: and it probably set in in different stages and manifested 475 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: those feelings and emotions in different times and ways. But 476 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: I wasn't healthy enough to I mean, I was in 477 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: a very very dark place, which crushes me. You know 478 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: two things about that, other than the tragedy itself that 479 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: crushed me, is I was raised that character was one 480 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: of the one of the one of the things a 481 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: man was supposed to possess, and that character reveals itself 482 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: when things get hard, not when things are easy. And 483 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: when things when things got hard, I crumbled. So I'm 484 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: not who I thought I was. I'm a fraud. That's 485 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: hard to to have not been able to demonstrate that 486 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: character at a time where my kids needed me the most. 487 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: That's just that's just that destroys me. It destroyed me. 488 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: And the way that manifests is I self medicated in 489 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: the way that I knew how is to hurt other people. 490 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. I just stayed in 491 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: the house and then my friends would come pick me 492 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: up and I would never go out with them. And 493 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: one night they did, and we went out. Somebody said 494 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: something and I was just like a ticking time, like 495 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: I don't even know what happened. I just punched them 496 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: and it's like, for the first time that pain went 497 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: away for a minute. It's like I want to do 498 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: that again because of the adrenaline. I don't know, I 499 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: don't know what the physiological response was, but that emotional. 500 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: So you get a bar fight and this's first time 501 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 2: you feel good since your wife dies. Oh, that's dangerous, 502 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: especially for a guy who's learned his whole life how 503 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 2: to fight pretty well. 504 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: Felt really good. Wow, So what does it make you 505 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: feel like today? Knowing that that felt really good? Then, man, 506 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: it's just so scary that, apart from Christ, the things 507 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: that are that will draw to to try to navigate 508 00:29:54,800 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: through life are are so destructive and they always start 509 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: out appearing like they're not because of how they make 510 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: you feel in the beginning. That sums up the word temptation. Yeah, 511 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: and it's just you know, yeah, especially if you don't 512 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: have if you don't have a faith, if you don't 513 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: have a real profound faith, then we don't have that 514 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: internal gps that if you make a wrong turn, it says, 515 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,959 Speaker 1: recalculating and get back on the right road. It's like 516 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: without that GPS, you just keep making wrong turns and 517 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: next thing you know, you're in a place that you 518 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: couldn't imagine. 519 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,239 Speaker 2: You and I are cut from the same costs. One 520 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 2: of the things I talk about so much all the 521 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 2: time in speeches and all is having a compass. And 522 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 2: then if you got an airplane in DC, flew all 523 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 2: the way around the world back to d C, and 524 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: your compass was off only three degrees by the time 525 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: you got back to DC, you would actually end up 526 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: north of Nova Scotia. Yeah, three degrees. And without that compass, 527 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 2: with the true deuce setting, you will end up so 528 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: far off course you don't even know where you are 529 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: in your life. And that's what you're saying. 530 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: Yep, that's what's been true in my life. And then, 531 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: of course I have the privilege now of walking with 532 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: people that find themselves in places, in dark places that 533 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,239 Speaker 1: they can't see a path forward, and I see that 534 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: same story play out. It's consistent. It's the same story 535 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: manifesting different ways for different reasons, but it's the same story. 536 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: So you hit this dude, you get to fight and 537 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: you briefly feel good. YEA, that means you're going to 538 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 2: go do it again. 539 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: I want as much of that as I can get. 540 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: So the next night, I don't know if it was 541 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: the next night, but it was, and it was everywhere. 542 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: If you pulled in front of me on the road, 543 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,959 Speaker 1: I'm on you. Yeah. 544 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: But the next so you think your depression became rage, 545 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 2: and the rage actually became an outlet to offset the 546 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 2: sickness of the depression inside you, your own body. 547 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: I was searching for a way to self mandicate and 548 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: I don't, and it was rage at this point. At 549 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: this point, I needed to feel better. I was suffocating, 550 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: and the same way that you would fight for a 551 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: breath if somebody was choking you, I was fighting for 552 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: I was fighting for something that would allow me to 553 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: breathe for a minute. Oh gosh, that's profound. And the 554 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: only thing that worked is when I heard other people. 555 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: Okay, not proud of that, so maybe not the next type. 556 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 2: But shortly after that first. 557 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: Back at the same bar, we get in a big 558 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: bar fight. It spills out in the parking lot. Police 559 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: are on their way, so I jump in a car 560 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: where some people fleeing bad car really. Yeah, just jumped 561 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: in the back seat of a car that was flying 562 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: and went flying through the parking lot trying to get away, 563 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: and unfortunately it were Mexican mafia running cocaine up and 564 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: down the West Coast, and they took me back to 565 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: their apartment. I'd never seen cocaine before, but I'm out. 566 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: You're in a bar fight here, the cops are coming. 567 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: You jump in a random car, and you end up 568 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 2: in the apartment of Mexican drug mafia cartel people. That's 569 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 2: almost that's Hollywood would write that, because it's almost two 570 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: insane that happens. Meanwhile, you have a business and two 571 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: children at home. You were spiraling, bro. Yeah, so you 572 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 2: said you'd never seen cocaine before. 573 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: But I did it that night and and like like 574 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: hurting other people. It gave me a relief, but it lasted, 575 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: and I don't have to hurt other people, and I 576 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: could do it over and over again. So cocaine ain't's good. 577 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: It was till it wasn't. What did that look like? Oh, well, 578 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: we've seen it happen unfortunately in too many people's lives, 579 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: but it is. It is the darkest, most evil, desperate. Uh, 580 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: I don't even know how to describe it, but it is. 581 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: It is utter, I think it. If it's hell, I mean, 582 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: if hell is the absence of God, then that's what 583 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: that is, the absence of anything good. Delusia, kids, No, 584 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: delus your business. Yeah a bit, well, not through, not 585 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: through that, but eventually, So take me through kind of that? 586 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: How that worked? What happened? Well, I, I continued, I 587 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: was alone, so nobody knew. Oh so the family back home, Yeah, 588 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: I get it. Nobody knew. And of course, like anything 589 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: you're not proud of, you're hiding it. Oh gosh, and 590 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: then you become a liar because it's just part and 591 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: parcel with addiction, is is deception. You have to live 592 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: that life. I hate to drink, but you can't do 593 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 1: cocaine and not drink because at some point you have 594 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: to stop. And the only way you can stop and 595 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: calm down is you have to You have to tell 596 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: you something to sedate you, to slow you down. And 597 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: so this day, let's either speed, heroin or something to 598 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: counter At some time, after three or four days, you 599 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: have to stop, and some you have to use week 600 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: or four days. You would do this stuff for three 601 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: or four days straight. I don't could you even sleep? No, No, 602 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: hows your body functioned? I don't know. I mean unfortunately 603 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: a lot. I mean, we lose one hundred thousand men 604 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: and women in this country every day to overdose. And 605 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: God just spared me from that because there's no way. 606 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: So your family does know until I guess they do 607 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: until they do, and then you know. I went to rehab, 608 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: jumped out of the window the first night, and then 609 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: they did an intervention and said, if you don't take 610 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: this seriously and don't do it because you want to 611 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: do it, not because we're forcing you, we're taking the kids. 612 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: And I wouldn't have lived. I mean I was on 613 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: the precipice anyway, and as sick as it is, I 614 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: love my kids deeply, even though that was even though 615 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: you couldn't have told it by how I was living 616 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: my life, and if they weren't in my life, I 617 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: would have lost everything. So I went. 618 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our gender sponsors, But 619 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 2: first I hope you'll consider signing up to join the 620 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 2: army at normal folks dot us. By signing up, you'll 621 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,479 Speaker 2: receive a weekly email with short episodes summaries in case 622 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 2: you happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer 623 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 2: reading about our incredible guests, we'll. 624 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: Be right back. They put me on a suicide watch. 625 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: Were you suicidal? I don't, well, I was trying to 626 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: be suicided by somebody I wouldn't have done. 627 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 2: But I mean, were you cognitively looking for waste keys? 628 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 2: So even though your lifestyle was going to kill you, 629 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 2: if somebody would have shot me, I would have been grateful. Wow, 630 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 2: like I didn't care, But I don't. I don't think 631 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 2: I would have done it myself. But I wouldn't have 632 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 2: thought i'd have done any of that stuff, right, I 633 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 2: have no idea. I just wouldn't participate and I wouldn't eat. 634 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: And so they put me on suicide watch. Got it, 635 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 2: And so I went on a hunger strike for a while, 636 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 2: and then they were worried about me, so they sent 637 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:18,959 Speaker 2: a couple of guys down. 638 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: Well, a former wrestler knows how to go on hunger strike. 639 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,959 Speaker 1: He'd done it before. Then he scared him. I've done 640 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: that day. I had to make waight ten times of 641 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: my life. I'm not worried about this. So they sent 642 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: a couple of guys down to talk to me and 643 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: one I think when you get sober, well, for me, 644 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: when you get sober, the hardest part is the shame. 645 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: The shame was way worse than getting sober. The shame 646 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,919 Speaker 1: that follows the sobriety is the thing that will send 647 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: you right back where you came from, because you're now 648 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: aware of what you've done and it's so ugly and 649 00:38:58,960 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: you have to face. 650 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 2: That if it's to be to me, same game, that 651 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 2: thing has to keep playing over and over in your head. 652 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: I wrestle with that demon to this day, you know, 653 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: And when you love to think about I watch your 654 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: documentary and you run so hard caring for and loving 655 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: for and trying to make the difference that needs to 656 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: happen for those young men. And if you outrun God 657 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: in that, it's equally is it's just another deception. It 658 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: becomes another self God. 659 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 2: Bro man, Do I know that? And do I know 660 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 2: you can outrun your family too? Yeah, And that's equally well. 661 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 2: If you're outrunning your family, you're out running God. 662 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: That's what I was. That's well put right, and I 663 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: do that all the time. Balance of stuff following Christ 664 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: is stuff. The balance happens if you put Him first. 665 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: So these two guys are they One of them was 666 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: a doctor that had started writing his own prescriptions to himself, 667 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: and another one was attorney that just started drinking beer 668 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: when he would come home after work, and it turned 669 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: into drinking beer when he woke up for breakfast. But 670 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: in the end, they were good, normal people that wound 671 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: up in a bad place, and they were not better yet, 672 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: but they were better than when they came. It's like, well, crap, 673 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: now that I've seen it, if they can do it, 674 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: I can do it. And so I started participating because 675 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: I saw guys that were demonstrating that they could rebuild 676 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: their life. I didn't believe that was possible for me. 677 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: So I started participating that I believe it was the 678 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: may have been the first day or the second day 679 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: after I started participating, they told me I need to 680 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: go visit a spiritual counselor. And I thought, no, man, 681 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: you don't want me. Here's the thing, Bill, I didn't 682 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: believe in God, That's what I'm saying. Bassed off at him. Well, 683 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: how can you be pissed off as something that doesn't exist? 684 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: You know? I remember after recovery, leaving Oregon and as 685 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 1: I was crossing into Eyenahope, saying this prayer, thank you 686 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 1: God for giving me a fresh start. I'm going to 687 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: go some ways and never speak of this again. I'm 688 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: starting a new life. I don't there's no need to 689 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: even revisit that. And of course he laughed because he 690 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: didn't bring me through it, not to share it and 691 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: to leverage that to help other people that are struggling 692 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: in that way in many other ways. Bro, The thing 693 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: I find so interesting is what you just said, which 694 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: is I didn't believe in God, but I was mad 695 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: at him. I know a lot of people like that. 696 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: That's not uncommon. Okay, but here's the thing. 697 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, you may hate God and you may be mad 698 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 2: at him, but if you do have an. 699 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: Emotional reaction to him, then in fact, you do believe it. 700 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: You just don't want to. Yeah. I think the seed 701 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: of our Creator is in us and we can deny it, 702 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean it's not there. That's what I think. 703 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: That was it. So like in our own flesh we 704 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: can say we don't believe, but in us there's this 705 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: seed of our Creator that can't be denied. And so 706 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where our words don't match 707 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: the reality. 708 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 2: Okay, so they say you got to go to a 709 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 2: spiritual advisor. And the reason I said, oh, man, is 710 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 2: I can just imagine you. I've lost my wife. What 711 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 2: kind of God can take my thirty year old mother 712 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 2: of my children from me? I've lost my dignity because 713 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 2: of what I've done to myself and the shame I'm experiencing. 714 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 2: I'm losing my business that I've worked my butt off for. 715 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 2: I've kind of lost my ethos because clearly, if it 716 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 2: is to be it's up to me. It isn't completely 717 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 2: true because I couldn't save my wife and now and 718 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 2: now you want me to go to talk to somebody 719 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 2: who's going to advise me about a deity that I've 720 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 2: rejected my whole life. And if I do believe in them, 721 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 2: all I have form is sustain. That's where you were. 722 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: Yep. Cool. So as Providence would have it, if it 723 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: was a man, I probably it probably would have been 724 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: if what was oh the counselor yeah, I see, I 725 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,399 Speaker 1: had that level of animosity and anger that it might 726 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: have just gotten physical. But as Providence would have it, 727 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: it was about an eighty year old, beautiful, sweet little 728 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: lady that had like eyes that glowed like you couldn't 729 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: have animus towards this beautiful lady angel. Yeah, And I 730 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: wasn't ready to hear it, but I listened, And I 731 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: remember the next two nights in my room trying to 732 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 1: behind a path forward, and I couldn't. Like every scenario 733 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 1: I came up in my mind is like, there's no 734 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,720 Speaker 1: coming back from this, and so her words kept ringing 735 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: in my head. And the second night, I just couldn't 736 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: come up with an answer, and I fell on my 737 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: knees and said, God, I don't know if you're real 738 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: or not, but if you are, I quit. That's it. 739 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: That's it. Now I'm likely to just totally lose it 740 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: down because what happened right then was I died and 741 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: was born again. Right there, I was in rehab. I 742 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: had tortured my children. My children had been tortured and 743 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: had lost everything, and I had this. I couldn't stop smiling. 744 00:44:53,120 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: If I tried, I was not the same person. Words 745 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: can't describe what happened. Do you think it's that you 746 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: were able to just lay it all at his feet? No? 747 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: I think that I died and was born again that day, 748 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: I think what it says that it's no longer I live. 749 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: He lives in me, And yeah, I think part of 750 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: that is him taking it. But that person that was 751 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: there before that pair wasn't there anymore. This isn't who 752 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: I am. I know who I am. I'm the most 753 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: selfish like I know who I was before him, and 754 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm not that person anymore. But it's who I am, 755 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,440 Speaker 1: So what's the difference. It's him living through me, not me. 756 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: I gotta be really careful because that person still is 757 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,920 Speaker 1: under the surface. That's that quite a little voice of 758 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: those things that chirp on your shoulders every day. It 759 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,919 Speaker 1: doesn't go away, it just loses power. But there's this war. 760 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,240 Speaker 1: It's not a battle of flesh and blood, but against principalities, 761 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,239 Speaker 1: and that does. War doesn't stop. But you're now, You're 762 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: now born again. He can't snatch you now. You can 763 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: get detracted and fall back and do all kinds of things, 764 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: but you are now his Do things still happen in 765 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 1: your life today? This is completely curious. Do things still 766 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: happen in your life today that you have? Do you 767 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: feel that tinge and where you could rip somebody's set 768 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: off to you? Yes, Oh, yes, really, yes. I have 769 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 1: to work on it all the time. I have to 770 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: surrender every day. The Gospel is a daily thing. I 771 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: have to die again every day, and the days that 772 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't, the old part starts to resurface. And in 773 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 1: the world that we've lived in, there's so much of 774 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: that chaos and violence all around. I mean, I haven't 775 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,720 Speaker 1: been a fight in a long time, so it doesn't 776 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,839 Speaker 1: go there. But the part that triggers it is does 777 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: it enter your mind? Do you give it space? That 778 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: is such an amazing, profound lesson what you just said 779 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: to me. I've never heard anybody say it that way. 780 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,280 Speaker 1: And I'm having a hard time moving on your story 781 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: to get past it because I'm absorbing it right now. 782 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: But you're saying there's a war of principalities going on 783 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: all the time inside of us, and the rebirth by 784 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: virtue of your relationship with Christ and God is how 785 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,399 Speaker 1: you win that War's the only way the adversary will 786 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: either his mission statements the same every day to steal, 787 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: kill and destroy. That's it. You know who he is 788 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:51,320 Speaker 1: and that doesn't change, and it can either be two ways. 789 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,360 Speaker 1: He can lull you into complacency where you're not effective 790 00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 1: and you're not a threat, and you're also not availing 791 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,839 Speaker 1: any value to the kingdom. Or it can be catastrophic 792 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: where he actually comes after you viscerally and tries to 793 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,879 Speaker 1: take you out. But they're both the same demon one 794 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 1: of them. You're just breathing in a bunch of skin, 795 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: taking up space in this world, and he's happy with 796 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 1: that too. So ultimately, if your happiness, your health, your 797 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: existence on the earth is meant to be, it's not 798 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,839 Speaker 1: up to me, not at all. I mean, the only 799 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 1: role I have in to play into this is to 800 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 1: surrender every day. And if you surrender, that fosters in obedience, 801 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 1: and it's not the work that you do, it's a 802 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: natural byproduct of it, it's what flows from it. And 803 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,360 Speaker 1: I think that's hard for a doer, is that I 804 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,359 Speaker 1: want I order my obedience to be something I do, 805 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,759 Speaker 1: not a byproduct of surrendering. 806 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,520 Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of my conversation with Darren Babcock, 807 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 2: and you do not want to miss part two that's 808 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 2: now available, as you'll hear about the extraordinary fruits that 809 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:24,799 Speaker 2: have resulted from Darren's surrendering control. Together, guys, we can 810 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,759 Speaker 2: change this country, but it starts with you. I'll see 811 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:29,919 Speaker 2: in Part two.