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Speaker 1: On the bed cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bell cast. To Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: thanks for everything, Caitlin Darante, Wow, we really just mad

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Speaker 1: lips to that one. Just a picture that with like

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Speaker 1: me having written that in sharpie on a framed photograph

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Speaker 1: of me where I'm looking extremely statuesque love and inciting

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Speaker 1: incident that revolves around a framed photograph. It's good. There's

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Speaker 1: actually I feel like for that it would be either

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Speaker 1: like we would be sitting at the table and it

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Speaker 1: would be either of It would be like an Alfred

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Speaker 1: Bilina head shot, which, by the way, we're recording on

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Speaker 1: his birthday. Happ Happy birthday Alfred to Mr Alfred Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it would be to Jamie and Caitlin, thanks

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Speaker 1: for everything, Alfred Molina. That would be really, I mean,

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Speaker 1: a dream come true. If we're already pitching, If we're

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Speaker 1: already pitching ideas, I think that that's a strong place

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Speaker 1: to start. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. By the way.

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Speaker 1: By the way, it's it's me Caitlin Durante from the photograph.

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Speaker 1: It's me Jamie Loftus. I'm referenced in the photograph, but

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Speaker 1: the pictures of Caitlin. Yeah, exactly, Yeah. Uh. This is

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Speaker 1: our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,

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Speaker 1: using the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point

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Speaker 1: to initiate a larger conversation about representation and such in film.

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Speaker 1: Philm Yeah, it's two thou twenty one. We added an

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Speaker 1: extra an extra syllable to uh. And the Bechdel Test,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know, it was a media metric created

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Speaker 1: by queer cartoonists Alison Bechdel's sometimes called the Buchtel Wallace Test.

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Speaker 1: There's many different versions of this test. Here's our little

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Speaker 1: spin on it. Uh. For our version of the Bechdel test,

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Speaker 1: there must be two named characters of a marginalized gender

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Speaker 1: who speak to each other about something other than a

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Speaker 1: man for more than two lines of dialogue. And guess

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Speaker 1: what The dialogue has to be plot wise meaningful somehow,

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Speaker 1: not like the biggest thing that happens in the movie,

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Speaker 1: but not something that is like, oh, they passed it

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Speaker 1: by accident. I'm sick of handing it to movies that

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Speaker 1: pass it by accident. God damn it. We won't take

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Speaker 1: it anymore. Yeah, us incredibly brave. Um So today's movie is,

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Speaker 1: if you didn't guess by my amazing introduction or by

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Speaker 1: reading the title of the episode, is too Wung Food.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for everything, Julie Newmar, long time request. I think

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Speaker 1: this has been on our list for a couple of years,

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Speaker 1: since the beginning, since the beginning, and I understand why,

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot to talk about and to join

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Speaker 1: us in that discussion. We've got an amazing comedian. She's

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Speaker 1: the host of the podcast Sweet a Lady's Guide to

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Speaker 1: Bro Culture. She's got live toward dates coming up in

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Speaker 1: the fall because we're going to be able to do

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Speaker 1: shows again. It's Gina Bloom. Hey, Hi, welcome. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me on this on this most auspicious day

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Speaker 1: of Molina. It is a very very special day. I

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Speaker 1: love an Alfred Molina. So here we are. You've come

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Speaker 1: to the right place on this very special day. Yes,

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Speaker 1: what a treat. If he I don't I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know Alfred Malina. He was working in ninety five.

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Speaker 1: He could have been in this movie, you know, not

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Speaker 1: high profile enough. This is a very high profile movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: higher profile than I thought it was. Apparently this was

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Speaker 1: there was like a little bit of like a like

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Speaker 1: a war between leading actors trying to get on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like they really went for it. The people who were

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Speaker 1: considered for the Vita bo M character is like every

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Speaker 1: a list from the Wikipedia page. It's filed from John

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Speaker 1: Cusack looking like his sister Joan, which is a huge upgrade.

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Speaker 1: So no idea why he didn't keep that going. But

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Speaker 1: where where you go, Billy Baldwin, there's a there's like

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Speaker 1: everyone you would expect, and then some wild cards such

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Speaker 1: as Willem Dafoe. What James Spader I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: John Turturo was like, okay, we got some character actors

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Speaker 1: in the mix here where Tom Cruise was one of them.

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Speaker 1: Tom cru Robert Downey jr. Um, Matthew Broderick, Mel Gibson Boo. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel I feel that Rod probably could have brought it.

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Speaker 1: Although I'm not a huge fan, but um I do.

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Speaker 1: I do love the idea of an alternate universe. Willem

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Speaker 1: Dafoe as as Vida, there is something special about that.

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Speaker 1: It's wild. Yeah, every every working white man at this

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Speaker 1: time auditioned for this part. And uh Swayzie one the day, Yes,

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Speaker 1: s Wayses. I I love a Patrick Swayzy movie. And

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Speaker 1: I guess the weird thing about this movie is that

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Speaker 1: I've never seen it until until now, and I've seen almost,

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Speaker 1: I think literally every other Patrick Swayzy movie. Wait, so

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Speaker 1: this was your first time seeing the movie? Is my

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Speaker 1: first time watching this? Yeah? And so just to give

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Speaker 1: you some idea about, you know, my personal like story

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Speaker 1: with this movie that well, I'm a translator. And so

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Speaker 1: when you're growing up you know in the South, which

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Speaker 1: in the part of Florida that I grew up in

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Speaker 1: is the South, Like you didn't open this out de

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Speaker 1: group in Florida Like then, No, No, Tampa, Florida is

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Speaker 1: the self, trust me. And you know, I heard of

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Speaker 1: the movie. I've seen the commercials. You know, you watch

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Speaker 1: it on back in the day at the VHS tape

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Speaker 1: and you'd see the commercials and all that, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: and in my head, I was like, I should watch this.

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Speaker 1: I am a trans person. I didn't know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what the words were, but like it was too

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Speaker 1: it was too much for my head to take and

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Speaker 1: like all my little miscreant friends were like that movie,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna watch that. They there's gay stuff going

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Speaker 1: on in there, and like you know that little like

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Speaker 1: Cloistered World. It just it just got by me. And

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Speaker 1: like I'd always I wanted to watch it, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there in that time when I just couldn't

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Speaker 1: bring myself to it. And then by the time I could,

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Speaker 1: there's all kinds of other stuff to watch. So here

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Speaker 1: I am. Wow. I didn't know you hadn't seen it

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Speaker 1: before wild Finally, Yes, that's why I picked it. I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I've never seen this. Let's

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Speaker 1: do this. What was your broad impression of it? I'm

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Speaker 1: so curious, you know, Um, it was a little it

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Speaker 1: was a little. Um, it was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's it's a fun It's a fun,

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Speaker 1: silly light film, and you know what, that's fine. Like

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Speaker 1: I like, I read on the Wikipedia page where like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the straight mall reviewers are like, this

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Speaker 1: is nothing special, and I'm like, well, I mean it

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Speaker 1: is though. It's it's a queer movie. It's a very

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Speaker 1: gay movie put out by you know, a studio. So

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Speaker 1: that is by definition of something special. It was really

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Speaker 1: it was kind of confusing in the movie didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to know the difference between trans women and drag queens.

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Speaker 1: This is true. Yeah, yeah, So so it took place

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Speaker 1: in some weird world where drag queens just went around

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Speaker 1: and dragged twenty four hours a day all the time,

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Speaker 1: including when they're in bed. Would they have their wigs

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Speaker 1: on and their makeup still on and they're like about

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Speaker 1: ready to go to bed, Yeah, they're in a full face,

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Speaker 1: they're they're tucked in, they got the tape, they got

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Speaker 1: everything going, and it's like, no, there was a very

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Speaker 1: fun um. I found a I'd not heard of this

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel before, but it's a drag queen movie review channels.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is perfect. And the drag

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Speaker 1: feed who reads the channel, James man Man's Field, brings

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Speaker 1: that up right away. I'm just like, where what planet

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Speaker 1: does this movie take place on? Some some weird drag

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Speaker 1: plant And I had read, you know, I read a

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Speaker 1: an article about you know, I think it's like the

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Speaker 1: twenty anniversaries from a few years ago, and the screenwriter

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Speaker 1: was like, who is out? He was a gay man

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Speaker 1: he was like, I wanted to make a world where

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Speaker 1: it was like it was like a fantasy world, and

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Speaker 1: like it doesn't have to be realistic. It just wanted

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Speaker 1: to be fabulous all the time. So I kept the

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Speaker 1: drag queens and dragged all the time, which is a

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Speaker 1: very white gay man perspective on on transness, which you know,

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Speaker 1: I you know what it's I'm gonna I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: to like just deal with the fact that things are

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Speaker 1: gonna be a little weird for a movie made in

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Speaker 1: a product of its time. The is really popping out

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Speaker 1: at multiple plays, like there's a lot of ninety going

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Speaker 1: on here. Caitlyn, what's your history with this movie. I

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Speaker 1: saw it for the first time in college and I

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Speaker 1: have not watched it since, and that was like fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago. So I've spent this whole time since then

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Speaker 1: under the impression that this was a movie about drag queens, which,

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Speaker 1: to be fair, is what the movie thinks the movie

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Speaker 1: is about. And then I saw it again a year

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Speaker 1: ago and I was like, wait a minute, that's not

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Speaker 1: what this movie is about. This movie is about three

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Speaker 1: trans women, as far as my interpretation goes, And uh so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've only seen it like one time before, like in

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Speaker 1: my youth, and then again more recently trans women who

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Speaker 1: don't know how to dress for comfort as as a

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Speaker 1: as a as a woman that has been all across

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Speaker 1: the country, I can tell you that is not how

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Speaker 1: you dress for the South. That is not how you

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Speaker 1: dressed for the weather ladies, or a road trip like

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Speaker 1: or any of that. It's not. Yeah, they drive clear

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Speaker 1: across the country. I was like, how, oh god, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't have an extent of history with it,

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Speaker 1: but I do find this movie very fascinating and I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to dive deeper into it. Jamie, what's your relationship

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Speaker 1: with it? I had never seen this movie all the

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Speaker 1: way through. I think I had seen bits of pieces

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Speaker 1: of it over the years. I think I think this

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Speaker 1: was I feel like I've given this answer for this

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Speaker 1: show of a jillion times. But I believe there was

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Speaker 1: a heavily edited version of this movie that used to

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Speaker 1: air on T and T UH that that I had

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Speaker 1: seen bits and pieces of. But this was basically my

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Speaker 1: first time seeing it all the way through. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: holy cow, there's so there's there's so much to talk about.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. This is the smallest thing. But I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Stockard Channing. It took me so long to figure out

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Speaker 1: who Stoker Channing is. Kind of a chameleon. I feel

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Speaker 1: like she looks so different. I recognized Lady Stockard immediately.

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Speaker 1: I I am. I am a Stockard fan from way back.

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Speaker 1: I ran into her in two thousand seven at a Cuckaroo,

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Speaker 1: a restaurant in California. Got you know, r I P

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Speaker 1: Kuckaroo but like they're in Burbank. I was standing behind

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Speaker 1: Stockard Channing and I just wanted to gush, but I

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Speaker 1: left her alone. She ordered her chicken and left. But like, yes,

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Speaker 1: immediately like, oh that is Stalkard Channing. Nice, that works.

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Speaker 1: That works for me. Wow. I love the just the

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Speaker 1: image of STALKERD. Channing ordering her chicken and leaving. It's

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Speaker 1: just so beautiful. It was it was it was my

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Speaker 1: it was my Wong food l new mor moment. She's

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Speaker 1: up there, she's up there with like Joey Foster as

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Speaker 1: far as like my my white lady um mentors. They

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Speaker 1: don't know they are, but they are beautiful. In especially

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Speaker 1: in terms of like the production history of this movie.

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Speaker 1: I was very much in the Dark. So it was

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Speaker 1: it was really interesting to learn. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 1: just like watching the movie all the way through, there's

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Speaker 1: so much and then learning about the production there's also

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Speaker 1: so much. So I'm I'm stopped to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Should I recap it and we'll go from there? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so totally this movie is very light and rompy, but

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Speaker 1: I do want to do a quick trigger warning at

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Speaker 1: the top because there is sexual assault that happens. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we meet Vita bo M that's Patrick Swayze and

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Speaker 1: Noxima Jackson that's Wesley Snipes. They are drag queens, according

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Speaker 1: to the movie, competing in a Drag Queen of the

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Speaker 1: Year pageant in New York City? Ever heard of it.

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Speaker 1: Also there is Chee Chee Rodriguez played by John Leguizamo.

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Speaker 1: RuPaul is there as miss Rachel Tensions. Okay, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: discuss RuPaul. Let's just get through the RuPaul part because

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Speaker 1: RuPaul enters in a Confederate flag dress first of all,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, wow, RuPaul is literally just like

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Speaker 1: stopping by before going back to like the fracking fields,

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Speaker 1: Like what is just there was a lot and I

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Speaker 1: know that there's I I read that there were a

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Speaker 1: number of iconic I guess nineties era New York drag

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Speaker 1: queens in that scene as well, And I don't have

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Speaker 1: the backbown, but who boy RuPaul Yeah in the Rebels

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Speaker 1: flag dress. I mean the figure was gho. It's nice

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Speaker 1: to see rue as as a young but like that

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Speaker 1: that dress that was not good. But it also it

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Speaker 1: also its signified, like it alerted you to the fact

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Speaker 1: that there's a lot of like racist humor in this

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Speaker 1: movie and you're gonna be hearing a lot of it.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, Well it didn't even connect for

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Speaker 1: me on my first rewatch of the movie. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: until I was rewatching it a second time to prep

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Speaker 1: for this episode that I remembered that RuPaul's drag name

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Speaker 1: in this movie is Rachel Tensions. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's why the Confederate flag dress. But that that beat

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Speaker 1: isn't really stepped on, so you just it's just RuPaul

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Speaker 1: in a Confederate flag dress and you're like huh, and like,

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Speaker 1: knowing that it was all written by a white guy,

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Speaker 1: You're just like, what the no, you know, just a

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Speaker 1: reminder that RuPaul Fracks. It's just never a fact that

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Speaker 1: gets up for me. RuPaul Fracks in a in a

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Speaker 1: a Confederate flag dress cannon. This is only the only

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Speaker 1: appropriate outfit to fracken. Oh yikes. Um, So Rachel Tensions

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Speaker 1: is there to announce the winner of this competition, the

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Speaker 1: prize for which is a trip to Hollywood, California, and

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Speaker 1: it's a tie between Noxima Jackson and Vita Boem and Chee.

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Speaker 1: Chee is devastated that she didn't win, so Vita takes

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Speaker 1: pity on her and invites her along on the trip

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Speaker 1: to Hollywood. And while they're at a bar trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out the logistics of how this trip with the

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Speaker 1: three of them will work, in which we get a

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Speaker 1: cameo from Robin Williams, who I guess had a big

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Speaker 1: hand in making this movie. Happen to think that was interesting? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: always happy to see him. Yeah, and like he he

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Speaker 1: had wanted to play the lead, but he felt that

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Speaker 1: it was he was physically inappropriate, which is the correct response.

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Speaker 1: Robin and then got Steven Spielberg's involvement and getting the

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Speaker 1: movie made, so it's surprisingly star studded this production. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't, I did not realize that this was an

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Speaker 1: Amblin joint when when I was going into it and

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Speaker 1: reading there, reading the history of like how that happened,

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Speaker 1: there was like a great piece in the Advocate that

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Speaker 1: was kind of this oral history of the at the time,

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Speaker 1: the one out producer at Amblin really pushed for this movie,

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's it's an interesting um it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting story. I just didn't realize I was like Steven Spielberg, alright, sure,

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Speaker 1: he really was absolutely everywhere in the nineties he owned absolutely. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: while they're at this restaurant, Vita notices a framed picture

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Speaker 1: behind her and written on it says to Wong Foo,

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Speaker 1: thanks for everything, Julie newmar So Vita steals the photo

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Speaker 1: to take with them on the trip as sort of

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Speaker 1: like a good luck charm. So they leave for their

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Speaker 1: trip in an old Cadillac convertible. They stop in Vita's hometown.

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Speaker 1: We find out that she is estranged from her rich

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Speaker 1: family and they also live in a castle. They live

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Speaker 1: in a castle, and absolute castle, yes, somewhere in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Then they talk about what it means to be a

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Speaker 1: drag queen and they say that cheat Chee isn't a

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Speaker 1: full fledged queen yet, She's still just a princess, and

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Speaker 1: that there are these like four undefined steps that she

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Speaker 1: has to take before she's a full drag queen. Complicating that, though,

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Speaker 1: is before they refer to cheat as a princess, they

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Speaker 1: refer to her as a boy in address, which is

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Speaker 1: complicated because on the one hand, Checho is very obviously

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Speaker 1: a trans woman, but on the other hand, the film

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Speaker 1: doesn't acknowledge that, so it's it's a it's a muddled message,

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Speaker 1: to say the least. There's a monolog from NOx Ema

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Speaker 1: in this scene that we will unpack in a in

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Speaker 1: a little bit because oh wow, is it outdated? I

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Speaker 1: think I know the one you talked about. I had

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Speaker 1: to watch it three or four times. It'd be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what is it. As a translating that's experienced, I can

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Speaker 1: tell you that's brought us about what was like? So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're just gonna yeah, I'm just gonna have to deal

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Speaker 1: with it. You have to deal with the past. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: So then a little while later they pull off for

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Speaker 1: the night and they have to be careful about where

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Speaker 1: they stay because they know about this very real possibility

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Speaker 1: that people will be cruel and intolerant toward them. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then they go to this they find this hotel

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Speaker 1: where the concierge mistakes them for members of a women's

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Speaker 1: basketball team, so they're like whoo, and then they set

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Speaker 1: off again. They drive for a while, they get lost,

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Speaker 1: it's dark, it's late there in the middle of nowhere,

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Speaker 1: and then they get pulled over and Sheriff Dullard has

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Speaker 1: stopped them and asks Vita to step out of the vehicle.

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Speaker 1: He then assaults her. She fights back and knocks him out,

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Speaker 1: and they think he might be dead. So then they

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Speaker 1: really wish he had just died. I have been a

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Speaker 1: treat that would that would have been a treat the

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Speaker 1: film would have been without conflict. But that's okay. Didn't

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Speaker 1: need the s guy at all. Could have found another way, right.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I was so shocked when he

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Speaker 1: turned out to not be dead, but I was. It

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Speaker 1: was deeply disappointing. Yeah. I also, I'm like, I love

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Speaker 1: that they just leave him for dead, just frantically flee

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Speaker 1: the scene. They make a quick stop, but then the

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Speaker 1: car won't start back up again, so they hit your

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Speaker 1: ride and end up getting stuck in this small town

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Speaker 1: for a few days while their car gets Next, a

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Speaker 1: local woman, Carol Anne that's Stockard Channing, offers them a

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Speaker 1: room in her house and they have to just hang

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Speaker 1: out for these few days while they're like part comes

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Speaker 1: in to fix their car. So Vita Naxi and Chee

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Speaker 1: Chee make the best of it. They befriend the local ladies,

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Speaker 1: give them makeovers, help them plan this upcoming Strawberry social Um.

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Speaker 1: Some of the local men are harassing everybody. So, but

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Speaker 1: the movie is like, but it's a but it's a joke. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the random get up Tufts was undeveloped, to say the least. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was a random there's a random gang of small

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Speaker 1: town tufts that just annoy people for some reason and

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Speaker 1: also seem like they are about to assault Chee Chee

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Speaker 1: in one scene and then uh, don't wear Vita Knoxi

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Speaker 1: teach them some manners. Yeah, they get They get scolded

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Speaker 1: one time and straightened out and then they learned their lesson. Right,

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of that going on in this town,

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Speaker 1: a lot of being reprimanded one time, a lot of

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Speaker 1: lessons learned here, including so Caroline has an abusive husband

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Speaker 1: who they run out of town. Also, Chee Chee has

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Speaker 1: been flirting with this man, Bobby ray Um, but a

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Speaker 1: young woman named Bobby Lee is in love with him.

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Speaker 1: So Vita Knoxi and Chee Chee help Bobby Lee pair

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Speaker 1: off with Bobby ray isn't Bobby ray one of the

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Speaker 1: Days Didn't Confused guys? Am? I like, yeah, I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure he has Okay, okay, because I was like, he's familiar. Well,

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Speaker 1: they're twin brothers, so he's either the Days and Confused

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Speaker 1: guy or he's that guy's brother, but they're twins. But yes,

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Speaker 1: that is true. You know what, I don't even want

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Speaker 1: to solve the mystery. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: live with the mystery. Let um. So meanwhile, Sheriff Dullard,

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Speaker 1: who did not die, is going around looking for Vita

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Speaker 1: and her friends, and then Carol Ane's abusive husband, Virgil,

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Speaker 1: runs into Sheriff Dullard, who presumably tells Dullard about Vita, Naxi,

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Speaker 1: and Chee Chee because then Dullard shows up to the

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Speaker 1: town demanding to know where they are. But then the

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Speaker 1: whole town like shows up to protect them and sends

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Speaker 1: Dullard on his way, kind of like Spartacus style, the

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Speaker 1: way it happened, Yes, very much so, yes, very Spartacus ending.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so. Vita, Naxi, and Cheechee are very touched that

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Speaker 1: the town stood up for them. Um. Everyone celebrates at

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Speaker 1: the Strawberry Social. Carol Anne wishes them a farewell, Vita

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Speaker 1: gives her the photo of Julie Newmar and then they leave.

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Speaker 1: And then the movie ends with the Drag Queen of

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Speaker 1: America contest in Hollywood, California. Ever heard of it? And

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Speaker 1: Julie Newmar crowns the winner, who is Chee Chee. And

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Speaker 1: that is the movie. So let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and then we'll come right back to discuss. And we're back.

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Speaker 1: Where do we want to start here? Where where should

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Speaker 1: we begin? Well, as we touched on already, this movie

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Speaker 1: does not really understand. No, it doesn't purposely purposely does

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Speaker 1: not understand because I mean, it took place. It's not

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Speaker 1: n like they knew. They just chose to do it

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Speaker 1: this way, like they knew that drag queens are in

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Speaker 1: transmen are not the same thing. But they they're like, no,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do it this way. Yeah, I have to

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Speaker 1: imagine it was a an attempt to maybe appeal to

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Speaker 1: a more widespread audience, to leave it intentionally vague. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's yeah that I think it's just the

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Speaker 1: visuals because you know, they're they're going for this idea,

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Speaker 1: you know, with the stunt casting, that we're going to

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Speaker 1: cast these like alpha male action guys as drag queens,

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Speaker 1: so we can never not show them and drag. Otherwise

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Speaker 1: they're just gay men and that's not that's not hiconcept

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Speaker 1: enough for right. Like, they like they really wanted to

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Speaker 1: like just drive home the visuals so they could, you know,

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Speaker 1: pump the you know, the trailer full of like funny music.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure that's what they were thinking. And that's

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Speaker 1: just that's just the reality of the film. The trailer

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Speaker 1: is so bizarre. I don't know if either of you

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Speaker 1: have seen it, but it's Westley Snipes and then you

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Speaker 1: like see steve footage of him in action movies. He's

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Speaker 1: done in other movies. Pas it goes it shows Wesley

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Speaker 1: Snipe clips that says he's been a killer and a commando,

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Speaker 1: and then it cuts to like Patrick Swayzy. Eclipses says

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Speaker 1: he's been a heartthrob and a hero. They don't introduce

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Speaker 1: John like Wisamo at all, and then they just cut

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Speaker 1: to the and an actual trailer starts. It's very bizarre,

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Speaker 1: and then it's something like in their most physically challenging

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Speaker 1: role yet, and then it cuts to them in drag

404
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Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, if you insist, we're gonna say

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Speaker 1: that five thousand times in this episode. It's gonna be

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Speaker 1: the title of the episode. And it was just deal

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Speaker 1: with it. Um, So yeah. Another distinction that we should

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Speaker 1: make is that while drag queens have traditionally been thought

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Speaker 1: of as siss gay and who do drag, of course,

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Speaker 1: there are lots of trans and non binary and gender

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Speaker 1: queer people who are also drag performers. The two are

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Speaker 1: not mutually exclusive. But again, this movie, the mission of

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Speaker 1: the film was that these were drag performers, not trans women,

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Speaker 1: although you watch the movie like, these are trans women,

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Speaker 1: and then if you read John Legisanlo's interviews, he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I played this as a trans woman, Like this is

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Speaker 1: this is not a drag queen that I'm that I'm

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Speaker 1: performing as. Right, So he got it, he got it,

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Speaker 1: and he said like, if this movie were to be

420
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: remade today, they should cast a Latina trans woman to

421
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: play that part. So yes, we in our one lens

422
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: understand this. We're smart. Just your episode Lee reminder, we

423
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: are smart, You're smart, and wean in in the years.

424
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: I honestly, I mean, I was surprised because there was

425
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: so much or not so much, but there's a fair

426
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: amount written about this movie at its twenty year anniversary,

427
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: and I was surprised to not see like the writer

428
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: of the movie pressed a little more on this. I

429
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: wasn't able to find any examples of Also, Douglas carter

430
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: Bean very fancy name. Don't know anything about his background,

431
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: but Douglas carter Bean is a funny name, and he

432
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: it's it says on his Wikipedia page. He often writes

433
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: works with sophisticated drawing room humor. So he's he's just

434
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: a fancy person, fancy, He's a fancy lad, Douglas carta Bean.

435
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: But no, no one seems to have ever really pressed

436
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: him on on on this, and it's his only film project.

437
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: He's otherwise worked almost exclusively on stage. I just thought

438
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: it was like kind of I was honestly just expecting

439
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: him to have commented on it at some point, and

440
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: he never has. Yeah, I have a quote from him

441
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: where he says, quote, my inspiration for the script came

442
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: from watching the religious right videotape The Gay Agenda. There's

443
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: a scene where they show drag queens going through a

444
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: town and the narrator is warning viewers that these people

445
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: will take over your town. And I thought, well, that

446
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: would be fun unquote. Yeah, you know, and I read

447
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: that too, and that that is a that is a

448
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: funny funny. It's a funny inspiration. Yeah, I don't get

449
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: me wrong. Yes, we're we we have we have well

450
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: established that this film has an incorrect depiction of trans women.

451
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, it is kind of funny

452
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: that the movie simply is that is this drag queens

453
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,239
Speaker 1: taking over a town, and that that itself is a

454
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: funny idea, which it generally accomplishes. In my opinion. I

455
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: have to kind of turn off my my my censors

456
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: is a little bit, but like I think, just going

457
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: with the flow. Sometimes I get on the movie's wiflength

458
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: because of that. I mean, to enjoy a movie, we

459
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: often must turn off those lenses, those goggles, take off

460
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: the Bechtel, cast goggles, et cetera. Because there are elements

461
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: to this movie that are like, really just like road

462
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: movie romp. Stuff is going on. There's it is like,

463
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: at its heart, a road trip movie. And there's a

464
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: party at the end. And I know, Caitlin, you're generally

465
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: anti prom wedding party at the end, but I'm like,

466
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: there's a party at the end and everyone throwing red.

467
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: You know what, I didn't mind it. I mean, I

468
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: don't mind a general party at the end of a movie.

469
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: I just specifically don't like proms and weddings because of

470
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: the connotations they generally carry. But I liked the strawberry Festival.

471
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: The strawberry Festival, You're like, yeah, sure, this is probably

472
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: the only thing that happens at this place all year.

473
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: What's funny is that where I grew up in Florida

474
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: had a strawberry festival and it was really it was yes, yes,

475
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: I grew up near Plant City, Florida, which is where

476
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: the Strawberry Festival in Florida is, and it was never this.

477
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: It was never this fabulous. Never. They never coordinated colors,

478
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: they never did any of that. This was way better Starberry.

479
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: It was never a red and wild theme. Never, never

480
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: a theme period. It was just Carney's. That was it.

481
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: That was the theme. Every every town wide party should

482
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: start with running the sheriff out of town. I think

483
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: that that really sets the vibe in a fun way. Yes,

484
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, this movie it was fun. Like despite

485
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: the many, many, many, many problems it was it was

486
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: good natured and like being good natured scores a decent

487
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: amount of points with me. Because a lot of a

488
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: lot of trans movies, and I'm gonna call us a

489
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: trans movie, it doesn't call itself that. Sure, A lot

490
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: of trans movies don't don't have joy. Like a lot

491
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: of movies about trans characters. The miserable people are like

492
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: the women, the men, whatever, they generally are just miserable.

493
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: I was up for a role. I turned it down

494
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: because it was basically a trans woman, a drag performer

495
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: trans woman. It was kind of the same thing. That

496
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: writer didn't really understand the difference, and it was basically

497
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: this this person just gets beat up for twenty minutes

498
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: and then just gives up on their dreams. And it's

499
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: like and they're like, I could see you in this role.

500
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: I get you can like I hope not because a

501
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: happy person Jesus Christ. Yeah, and I mean, like you

502
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: mentioned Gina, this coming out from like, this movie came

503
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: out as a like a major studio released, It had

504
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: huge bankable stars in it. It opened as the number

505
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: one movie for like the first two weeks of its

506
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: of it being released, so a lot of people saw it.

507
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: And also, let's not forget that this movie came out

508
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 1: like at the height of the AIDS epidemic in the US.

509
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: So for this to be such a major movie that

510
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: is just such a like fun can't be romp, not

511
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: without its problems, but a romp nonetheless. And that it wasn't,

512
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, tragedy porn the way that so many trans

513
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: movies are. That's something. I was so inspired by this

514
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: movie that I ordered Susan Sontag's on Camp essay off

515
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: of Amazon, but I was not inspired enough to actually

516
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: read it. So so I almost movie almost so close.

517
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: Let see that. I feel like that it is like

518
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: it's the middle of the road, you know, like I'll

519
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: spend four dollars, but will I follow it through? I

520
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: don't know. I'll get to that. I'll get to that

521
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: Sontag essay someday, but it didn't inspire me to, like,

522
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: you know, reacquaint myself with the theory of camp. You know.

523
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: It's it's something that i've I've you know, hey, i've

524
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: been I live it, I can't be live. So yeah,

525
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: I I felt inspired enough do that. So it's it's fun.

526
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: And now Susan will just be waiting for you. Yes,

527
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: well we'll do. Yeah. The context of this movie is

528
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 1: very I get. We're just gonna keep saying like the

529
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: context of this movie is so specific that like understanding

530
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: the exact circumstances this movie was produced and released in

531
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: two was at least it didn't solve the problems, but

532
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: at least kind of contextualized them a little bit. Where

533
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: like you were both just saying that the fact that

534
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: this is a movie that is fundamentally like created on joy.

535
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: It's fun. It's funny, it's a comedy at its core

536
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: at the height of the AIDS epidemic, like was was

537
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: it seems and that seemed like it was a big

538
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: motivating factor in making the movie. Where there's this piece

539
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: on the Advocate by Mitch Kohen, who used to work

540
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: at Amblin and then later became a teacher. His life

541
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: story is interesting. Well we'll link it in the episode,

542
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: but essentially he was the only out employee at Amblen

543
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: for a long time and really advocated for this movie

544
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: to get made, particularly because of wanting to see a

545
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: movie that had just had joy in it at all.

546
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: And another thing I thought was kind of interesting about it.

547
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: So the director of this movie, I did not. I

548
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: have not heard of this person before, but apparently she

549
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: also directed a Bridget Jones Beben kid drawn? Am I

550
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: saying that right? I think so? Yeah, been kid drawn?

551
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: I think that's right, with all due respect to be

552
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: been kid drawn if I'm getting get wrong. Um, But

553
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: what I thought was interesting was there was like this

554
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: movie seemed very easy to cast, where it sounds like

555
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: Wesley Snipes and John Leguizamo were in right away. The

556
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: part was written specifically for Cheechi Rodriguez was written specifically

557
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: for John Leguizamo, which again it's like I wish that

558
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: John Leguizambo and Douglas carter Bean could have like talked

559
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: about it. It gives if John Leguizama was playing a

560
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: trans woman and Douglas carter Bean was like, I'm Douglas

561
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: carter Bean, like he's Douglas carter Bean over here. Whatever.

562
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: But I thought it was interesting that it was, I guess,

563
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: very hard to find a director for this movie, much

564
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: harder than it was to uh find stars, where they

565
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: asked a number of male directors, and according to Mitch Cone,

566
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: every male director passed because of course they went to

567
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: male directors and they're like, get the broad I guess,

568
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: get the Bridget Jones girl. Okay, here we go. Bring

569
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: in Biban. Uh. You know, it's like for what, I'm like, Okay,

570
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, Biben Biban did it? Uh? And I didn't know.

571
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: I just didn't know who had directed this movie at all.

572
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 1: And then also the piece references a lot of how

573
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: and I wasn't exactly clear on whether this was true

574
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: or not, but when the movie came out, there were

575
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: a lot of kind of, you know, light accusations that

576
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: it was ripping off Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, even

577
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 1: though it sounds like they may have been in production

578
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: at the same time and Priscilla just came out first,

579
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: but they were definitely compared a lot. They came out

580
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: really close, and I think it was just one of

581
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: those like convergent things. But Priscilla wea does It was

582
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: a huge hit that got Oscar nominations and got critical

583
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 1: respect that to Wang Food didn't get. So I think

584
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: that was just an unfortunate bit of timing on their part.

585
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: But it happens. Yeah, we should cover Priscilla on the

586
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: show at some point. Absolutely should another except I believe

587
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: in a while since I've seen Priscilla, but I believe

588
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: that is an actual trans woman played by Tarrance stamp

589
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: In in that one. So there is an example of

590
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: a trans woman in the drag community way back in.

591
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: So they did, they did understand that could happen back then.

592
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: They just chose to ignore it, right because the character

593
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: in within like in the movie, is identified as a

594
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: trans woman, yes, and as living as a trans woman,

595
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: and she wears like regular lady clothes when she's not performing,

596
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: she just dresses normally. She doesn't she doesn't pull a

597
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: pull a Vita and does you know, go around in

598
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: full face and and boostier to the gas station. The

599
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: gas station would appreciate that, But that's that's a lot

600
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: of work. It's a gas station, a lot of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

601
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: it was definitely in production by the time Priscilla, Queen

602
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: of the Desert came out, so it wasn't like a

603
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: rip off in that way. But yeah, most people were like,

604
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: this is just like an American rip off of person

605
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: cashion in also choreography by Kenny Ortega. Wait really Yeah?

606
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 1: But then it made me think, like, what even scenes

607
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: or choreographed besides, like the drag shows. So I mean

608
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: maybe he just choreographed those drag shows at the very

609
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: beginning end end. I wonder. Yeah, I think that would

610
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: be it. That's all the choreography that I can call.

611
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: I love a Kenny moment. Wow, shout out Kenny Artega again,

612
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: the King of the King of Disney Channel Original movies himself. Yes, um,

613
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we will be

614
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: right back. We're back. Um, do we want to unpack

615
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: that Noxima monologue? Yeah, I think it's I think it's relevant.

616
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: I think it's relevant to to understand the time. Now

617
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: we can avoid certain terms that they were using. Just

618
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: know that they use them. They use them outdated terms. Yea.

619
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: And most importantly so NOx Ema does this whole are

620
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: talking about the one where NOx Ema is telling you

621
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 1: the different types of gay man you could be. But yeah,

622
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: just yeah, basically, yeah, so here's what Noxima says, and yeah,

623
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: I'll refrain from some of the very outdated language that

624
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: gets used. But according to Noxima, quote, when a straight

625
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: man puts on a dress and gets his sexual kicks,

626
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: he's a and then insert outdated word. Um, when a

627
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: man is a woman trapped in a man's body and

628
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: has a little operation, he is a insert similar but different.

629
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: A lot of problems with that statement, yes, to unpack

630
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: there beyond just the technical terminology. And then when a

631
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: gay man has too much fashion sense for one gender,

632
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: he is a drag queen. So these are the three

633
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: ways in which, according to this character, someone might wear

634
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: a dress that hasn't historically than a person that would

635
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: wear a dress absolutely right, right, that's that's what they're saying.

636
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: That's what Noxema is saying. And yeah it's and MAGAZINEA

637
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: is like explaining this too, chee chee for reasons, right,

638
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: just for conflict reasons that they just they're they're just

639
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: designed not to get along, like that's just that's basically

640
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: you're like sid Field, you know, gotta have characters and conflict,

641
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: Gotta what Hollywood movies are all about characters arguing with

642
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: each other, so they just invented arguments for them to

643
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: have and yeah, it you know what though that for

644
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: that that is even a little outdated um to say

645
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: the least, but like, but like, that's that's what people

646
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: would talk like, That's what people who didn't understand would

647
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: talk like. And I remember as a closeted trans woman

648
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: on the internet back then, trans girl, I guess you

649
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: underage whatever, But like back then, you didn't know about pronouns.

650
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: You didn't know that, you know, throwing the words sex

651
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: into into the subjunctive of of a term gives it

652
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: context that you don't really want to put in there.

653
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: And that's what people thought, like and probably to them,

654
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: and back in the day, they were just high fiving

655
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: each other, like look at how smart we are, like

656
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: we we got this covered, like this, we're educating the

657
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: audience here. And that's the kind of thing that I

658
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: said at the top of the episode, I avoided watching

659
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: this movie because I didn't want to come to terms

660
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: with certain things about myself because it was too scary

661
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: at the time. And that's exactly what that's speaking to,

662
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: because like that's what I thought. It is exactly what

663
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: I thought at that time, that you're either one of

664
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: these three things and there's no other place for you,

665
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: and none of those sounded like me. None of those

666
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: sound like very attractive options, except for being a drag queen,

667
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: which is a fun fucking job that I actually tried

668
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: and failed. That so because I just I do not

669
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: have too much fashion since I am barely enough, so

670
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: you know, doubt stuff. That's why I wanted to talk

671
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: about this, because that was like, I didn't get triggered

672
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: by that scene. I'm gonna all have been on this

673
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: planet for a long time. Lots of other things have

674
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: happened to me, but that reminded me of how I

675
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: thought back then, and how a lot of trans women

676
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: thought back then that I would talk to on the internet.

677
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: Were they you know, there was no good place for us.

678
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: We were either we were a gay men or we

679
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: were a straight men that we're just getting their kicks off,

680
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: and like there was there was no place for us

681
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: unless we had surgery, but then even then you're still

682
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: a he according to this monologue, right, yeah, yeah, this

683
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: monol like miss genders trans women multiple times in one sentence,

684
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: multiple times, Yes, absolutely and operates, like you said, on

685
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: the assumption that if you're trans, you have to have surgery,

686
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: you have to have surgery. Absolutely, yeah, which we know

687
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: better than that now, but kind of we kind of don't.

688
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: In two thousand twenty one, if I were to get

689
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: arrested as a as a woman who has not had

690
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: gender confirmation surgery, has not had bottom surgery, I would

691
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: go to male prison and I would die absolutely within minutes.

692
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: And that that's the reality. It's not my reality, but

693
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: that's the reality that a lot of trans women face.

694
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: They go into male jails, they get they get shoved

695
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: into these unsafe spaces because of their surgical status. Right,

696
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: And so you know, you you you're still to this day,

697
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: you're still being reinforced that you have to have surgery.

698
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: And maybe I will, maybe I won't. It's not a

699
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: huge priority for me right now. I'm having a good

700
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: life right now. But maybe I'll decide that's what I

701
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: want later. But I don't want to feel unsafe. I

702
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want

703
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: to have, you know, some cop in a mall in

704
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: Tennessee give me a genital check because of whatever. Stupid law,

705
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: they come up without there because of that. So that

706
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: stuff is still happening, and that's that's the reality we

707
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: live in. That's and that even then, even the community,

708
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: even our community, had that position, and a lot of

709
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: us still do. I still to this day, and I

710
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: don't mean to like take over the show here, but

711
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: I still to this day, we'll run into two gay

712
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: men that will conflate my sexuality with my gender, with

713
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: my presentation. I have a lot of jokes about about gender.

714
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: I was at a stand up show at a gay

715
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: bar and I was telling him this joke I tell

716
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: about straight men. Straight men are bad sex, blah blah blah,

717
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: you know, stuff that we all know. Hey, Like, this

718
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: gay guy starts heckling me. He's like, but if you're

719
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: having sex with him, he's not straight. Yeah he is,

720
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: I guarantee you. I know from first lill experience man

721
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: as straight as a fucking board. Maybe some of them aren't.

722
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: So I've had sex with probably men to fucking fun,

723
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: but you know, there has nothing to do with that.

724
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: So that's still that that attitude is still out there.

725
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: This guy should have known he was a little older,

726
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: but he was not so old that he didn't. He

727
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: couldn't have been inundated with this information over the past

728
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: us however many years. So this this scene is is

729
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: I think key to the critique of the film. It's

730
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: a bad scene. It's cringe e absolutely, and it's something

731
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: I don't I didn't really enjoy, but like as a

732
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: as a document of this film and the enpirement that

733
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: it came from, it's absolutely key that we discuss it. Yeah,

734
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: it's again, it's it's like something that I wish that

735
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: the writer has been pressed on at at any time,

736
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: because you're totally right, Gina, where it's you know, Douglas

737
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: Carter Bean chose to write this story. So if he's

738
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: choosing to write this story, that you have to do

739
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: your due diligence and talk to people. And you know,

740
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: he also had to have been well aware that he

741
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: was one of the only writers who was writing a

742
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: mainstream story like this, and how like spreading misinformation and

743
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: half asking anything like there is a higher risk to

744
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: doing that because no one else is talking about it

745
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: to a mainstream audience. It's just it's really frustrating and

746
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: and very of its time. But just like, uh, it's

747
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 1: it's it's so frustrating that like this scene, I don't

748
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: even know what to say, Like they're the mental gymnastics

749
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: you have to do to even get through that. Um,

750
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: it was hard to watch, absolutely, Yeah, very hard to watch.

751
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: I I audibly gasped at it, and I don't normally

752
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: do that, but I did there, and it did take

753
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: me out of the film for a minute. Yes, I

754
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: I agree, should we have pressed the writers and I

755
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: want to press the writer absolutely, But as is typically

756
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 1: the case, those marginalized people who are perhaps the least

757
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: marginalized he's still in mail, often are the ones that

758
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: are the first you know on the scene and have

759
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: have an imperfect perspective on it. So there you go. Yeah,

760
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: and then for that monologue to end with the nusomic character.

761
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: And also I think I read a lot of articles

762
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: about this movie that interpret that monologue in the way

763
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: that no Sima says, like when a gay man has

764
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: too much fashion sense for one gender, he's a drag queen.

765
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: And then that's I read a lot of articles that

766
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: that people interpreted. Okay, So like Noxima is saying, that's

767
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: the category that we fall into, even though I'm like,

768
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: did you watch the rest of the movie. But um,

769
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: and then the way the sentence or like the way

770
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: the monologue ends is Noxima saying to Chee Chee, like,

771
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: you're not a drag queen, You're a boy in a dress.

772
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: And when you look at it through the context of

773
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: these are trans women. And then for another character, who

774
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes is a trans woman, to

775
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: say that to another trans woman, yeah, I mean, as

776
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: as a trans woman, I can tell you trans women

777
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: are awful to each other sometimes, so that happens not

778
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: always were usually quite eyes to each other, but sometimes

779
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: we're terrible. The thing that I took away from that

780
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: scene other than what we've been talking about, is that

781
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: there's really not any motivation for it, and so you

782
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: kind of have to fall back on what the movie

783
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: gives you, like what is exactly Noxinous problem with Chee Chee,

784
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: And like they don't give you a whole lot other

785
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: than the fact that she's young and that there's this

786
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: weird racial undercurrent things that she says, so like you

787
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: just get the kind of the impression. But Doxine was

788
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: kind of a racist, which is which is the motivation

789
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: behind that scene for her to talk like that. It's yeah,

790
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 1: it's it's not good. It's it's like, I just don't

791
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: trust that Douglas Carter Bean really knows what he's talking

792
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: about on a lot of levels here, And yeah, I

793
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: don't think he does. I think you're correct on that, Jamie,

794
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: I think he does. I think that I think this

795
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: is what happened. This is what Douglas Carter being in

796
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: my estimation, that is what he did. He talked to

797
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: some drag queens and he probably listened in on some

798
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: drag queens talking to each other. And you know, you're

799
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: both comedians. You know how people get when they're around

800
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: each other, and like sometimes specially back then, you can

801
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: get kind of rough and tumble. And I have no

802
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: doubt that drag queens of different races were throwing racist

803
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: jokes at each other. But it came across kind of

804
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: ugly in this movie like it was it wasn't. It

805
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: just felt racist. It just felt like they're being racist.

806
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 1: And that's probably what he's missing. He's missing, like there's

807
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: supposedly some context here, and just don't put it in

808
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: there if you just don't do it, you know, don't

809
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: if you can't do it right. And there it really

810
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: is no right way to do it. I mean, some

811
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: some things you just don't need to put an n

812
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: a PG thirteen comedy, a bunch of a bunch of

813
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: racist jokes probably that probably qualifies as that, so leave them.

814
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: It just felt it just felt like Noxi was being

815
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: racist towards Cheat Cheet just because she was beings because

816
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: she was racist, because she kept saying racist stuff to

817
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: her throughout the entire movie up until that point. It

818
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: just made the character unlikable. Yeah, for that bit. Now,

819
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: Wesley is doing a great job being a likable person,

820
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 1: but that seems it's brutal and and Vita says racist

821
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: ship constantly too, like there and and it kind of

822
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: for Vita. Vita's character for me is so she's just

823
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: hard for me because there's so much like I guess

824
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm interested in what everybody thinks, because it was there

825
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: were so many times where I was like, I wasn't

826
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: sure if I was supposed to be on Vita's side

827
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: or not, where it seemed like either Noxima or Chichi

828
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: We're making a very valid point to her and she'd

829
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: be like, no, we have to do this, and I'm

830
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: like no, Vita, like, listen to your friends, and then

831
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: plot wise, she would end up being right like and

832
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: that happens a few different times, like where at one

833
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: point with the cop where us trying to decide, you know,

834
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: should we stay should we leave, and Noxine is kind

835
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 1: of like, no, we have to get the funk out

836
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: of here, like this is a real and present danger,

837
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: and Vita's like, oh okay. But it's like Vita's whole

838
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: core quality being that she, you know, perceives herself to

839
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: be very pure of heart and wants to kind of

840
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: be this fairy godmother to the world. And that happens

841
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,439
Speaker 1: again with Carol Anne. It's just I don't know, Vita

842
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: was was tough to crack for me. I think I

843
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 1: think that we should discuss the relationship between Vita and

844
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: and Soccertani's character then, because that that formed a big

845
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: component to this film, because it really that's where it

846
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 1: really bites off more than it can chew. Among many

847
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: other times, this is this this plot line is where

848
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: it bites up way more than it can chew. Yeah,

849
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: And it's part of a larger issue that I have

850
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: with this movie in that it's about three queer characters

851
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: who end up focusing all of their energy on helping

852
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: straight people. And this is like a trope that is

853
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: commonly seen in like rom coms and other genres. This

854
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 1: is also a trope in my actual life. So total

855
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: I am I yes, unfortunately, this is this is something

856
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: that happens. I am, I am constantly called in that's

857
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: character witness some straight persons woud that is not fair

858
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: to you? What is that? So we see this a

859
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: lot where Usually the situation is that there will be

860
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: a straight protagonist in a movie who has a gay

861
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: best friend, and the only thing the queer best friend

862
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: is allowed to do in the story is to basically

863
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: just give advice to the straight person. This movie like

864
00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: dials that up and says no, the three main characters

865
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: are queer people. So they're not even like the side

866
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: best friend characters. They are You're like three core characters

867
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: and they are still doing nothing but helping straight people

868
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: who are like the secondary characters. Right there, there's still

869
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: the queer advisory board. Yes, right to the point where

870
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: at the end they're like removed from the action and

871
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: they're on a balcony. They're not even at the party.

872
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: They're right, they're levitating above them. They had to hide.

873
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: Ye yeah, I just I think the subplot with the

874
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: Stalker Channing characters. Stalker Channing's character is is that that's Carolina.

875
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: Her name Caroline yea. So her character is she's running

876
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: the house that the queens are staying at, and she's

877
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: in an abusive relationship with her husband physically abuses her.

878
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 1: And it's pretty it's pretty up front about it, Like

879
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: it's not like he's openly abusive and unrepentant about it

880
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,439
Speaker 1: does makes no attempt to even hide it or anything else,

881
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 1: and everyone just kind of this is this kind that's

882
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: what it does. That's what that's what he does. How

883
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: it is, And like Vita's purpose in the film at

884
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: that point becomes, you know, enabling this labeling Caroline too

885
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 1: to move on with her life and get this bad

886
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,479
Speaker 1: man out of it. And again, the movies is buying

887
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: off way more than it can chew at this point,

888
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: Like it's it's totally inconsistent and you end up just

889
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: not doing the subplot justice. Glad you have, you know,

890
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: really charming actors stccer Channing, Patrick says, a great performers,

891
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: a great charming performers. They do a lot to sell

892
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: this stuff, and I think Hollywood movies especially, they are

893
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: reliant on on the charisma of their of their stars

894
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: just to sort of paper over the crap that they

895
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: have written for them. Right, Because similar to how after

896
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: one little like lesson in Manners and Etiquette, NOx Ema

897
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 1: is able to cure a whole group of bullies who

898
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: are prone to sexual assault, Maxima cures the sexual assaulting

899
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 1: bullies and then she makes a mute woman talk. There's

900
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot, there's a lot of translating magic going

901
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: on this thing, which the way disability is treated as

902
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: a gag, like as a joke with that character is

903
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: obviously not acceptable. It's so it's it's it's. I mean

904
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: so much about the tone of this movie is bizarre,

905
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 1: but where where it is very much biting up more

906
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: that it can choose, Like, well, if we want this

907
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: to be a comedy, why why do we keep introducing

908
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: these beats into the story where exactly like everything is

909
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 1: so upsetting? Why you have your insiding incidents some sexual

910
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: assault when they could have just had the car breakdown,

911
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: Like doc Hollywood does the same plotline. Cars from Pixar

912
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: does the same plot line, but they don't they're not

913
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: they're not motivated by this extra character, especially because he's

914
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 1: not really posing any threat to them except for the

915
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: very end of the movie, and then that is very

916
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: easily resolved immediately this formal wall and like that's it,

917
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: and run him back out of town as quick as

918
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: he came. It's so the cop the cop storyline is

919
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: is also just so frustrating because it's like taking a

920
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: very very real issue of i mean, on multiple levels,

921
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: on how police treat trams women, on how police treat

922
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,879
Speaker 1: people of color, where he uses like racial slurs back

923
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: to back, Yes, hard racial slurs, not not even euphemisms.

924
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: He's going he's going straight for them. Yeah, and and

925
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:47,720
Speaker 1: and then assaults Vita and like these things all happened

926
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: back to back to back, and then this character just

927
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: becomes a cartoon as the movie goes on, and it's

928
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 1: again it's one of those things where it's like, well,

929
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: Douglas Carter Bean, like this is a very real issue

930
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: that it's like, if you want to keep the movie

931
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 1: this light, then don't introduce that plot point, because it's serious.

932
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: They could have exercised Chris Penn's cop character and not

933
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,919
Speaker 1: have had any problem whatsoever. They could have every beat

934
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: could have been preserved without that piece, that person there.

935
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 1: But that's that's that's again, that's Hollywood stuff. They're like,

936
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: that's a that's an exact question that exects asked. Where's

937
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: the danger, where's the concept, where's the danger? That's what

938
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: they expect, especially when you have queer people, like queer

939
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: people in America where they have to be imperil otherwise

940
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: it's not being authentic. This is one thing I read

941
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: in their temporaneous reviews is that people were critical of

942
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: the film not being dark, like you can't have queer

943
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: characters and without having the you know, run through the muck,

944
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: because then it's not authentic and like that sound straight

945
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: people view queer life and it's not that. I mean

946
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: it is that, don't get me wrong. I I have

947
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: an absolutely you know, I have an absolute heart attack

948
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: once a week. Uh, just dealing with the straight world.

949
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: And I have a very sheltered life. I do you know,

950
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm in a safe city and like I'm I'm a

951
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a white person, so I as far

952
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: as the trans woman goes, I'm pretty sheltered. But like

953
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: I still have to deal with stressful situations. Sure, I

954
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: just I just wish that. I just wish the film

955
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: we're just better about it or just didn't put them

956
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: in there. Like, if you're gonna have this lighthearted rob

957
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: where everything is fabulous, just be it's totally fine. Yeah,

958
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: at the very least, and this is like minuscule and

959
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: surface level. I was like, at least, this is like

960
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: one of the few movies from this era that isn't

961
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: afraid to show a cop character being a bad person

962
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: and a racist and misogynists and etcetera. But like, again,

963
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: this movie is not equipped to handle like so much

964
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: all of that, So yeah, just get it out of there.

965
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: But as far as the subplot with Caroline and Vita,

966
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, basically empowering her to leave her husband, and

967
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: there's this weird beat at the end where the abieceive

968
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: husband looks at her and it looks like they're going

969
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: to get back together. They give like this weird wondering

970
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: about that look at each other, and then he just

971
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: sort of walks away, and it's like, I don't think

972
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: you get it. I don't think you get this get

973
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: this at all? Douglas Carter Bean, right, I was like,

974
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: was that her being like, now go on and get

975
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: or was that her being like maybe, yeah, we're going

976
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: to figure this out. Like yeah, the most the most

977
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: generous because it's open to interpretation. The most generous interpretation

978
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: that I'm willing to give it is that she was

979
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: she was adopting this power pose to be like, look

980
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: at what you missed out on. You could have had

981
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: this empowered woman and he begrudgingly gives her the respect of,

982
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, not being an us all and walking away. Yeah,

983
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: that is the most generous interpretation that I can give

984
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: to the scene, but it is open to many other interpretations. Yes, yes, yeah,

985
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: and and and Gina, I think you're saying this earlier.

986
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: But like the scenes where he's vague physically and verbally

987
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: abusive to her are very intense and to be explicit,

988
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: and the way that they're presented, and it's just I

989
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: don't know. We we just got to talk to Douglas

990
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: Carter Bean about all of this, because this is like, okay,

991
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: the if you want this to be a fun rob

992
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,439
Speaker 1: but it would just be so jarring where sometimes something

993
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: very upsetting would happen and then the music would be

994
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: like do do do do do do do just like

995
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: I think, I think. I think in Douglas carter Bean's defense,

996
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: he has a fun name to say, so I'm sure

997
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: that's why we keep saying it. He was He wasn't

998
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: the composer, he was at the editor. The whole thing,

999
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: the whole thing, even Kidren. The whole thing is there's

1000
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: a there's probably a lot of people that just missed

1001
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: the boat on it. But yeah, yeah, there's a lot

1002
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: of dissonance. So so when we say Douglas carter Being,

1003
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: we're really we're really meeting the executive creative team. But

1004
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: it's just it's a much more fun thing to say

1005
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: that Douglas carter Bean. We could say Douglas carter Bean

1006
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: and company, company and company at all, the grand Douglas

1007
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: carter Bean. Yeah. In conclusion, this movie is trying to

1008
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: tackle a lot of things that it's not equipped to tackle.

1009
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: There's also but it's and then there's like another confusing component,

1010
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: at least to the cop character, where he's hurling these

1011
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: racist slurs, and that's part of what lets us know

1012
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: that he is a bad person. And then the movie

1013
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: turns around and has Vita and NOx Sima hurle racist

1014
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: slurs and very racially charged comments to Chee chee. And

1015
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: that's just how the ladies relate to each other. Question Mark, Like,

1016
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: that's exactly I would be remiss not to at least

1017
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 1: addressed Chechi Rodriguez Um as a character. So again, watching

1018
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: this movie, I remember watching the trailers back when I

1019
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: was a kid and seeing che she and being like,

1020
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: you know what, I could be her. I'm not fabulous

1021
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: in that way, but like we were. We were very

1022
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: physically similar, same size, same basic complexion, and like I

1023
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: saw myself in that character. And that's like the reason

1024
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: why I didn't watch it, because I didn't want to

1025
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: see myself in this character. I I picked up that

1026
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: Chechi was a trans woman watching it back then, because

1027
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: she she more than any other characters. She she was

1028
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 1: moved and was addressed and talked and even though she

1029
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 1: was very like loud and out there, she was she

1030
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: was very much She's much more natural in presentation than

1031
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: than the other two women were. Like she she was

1032
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: allowed to have a little bit of a romance, even

1033
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: though she to sacrifice it. Again, that's the whole other

1034
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: thing again again Again, we're sacrificing stuff for the straits

1035
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: to be happy. We're sacrificing our happiness. There is an

1036
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: argument that that Vita makes where or maybe it's Naxy

1037
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: that makes this where it's like, you know, de woide things,

1038
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: you're hot, but wait till he finds out that he's not.

1039
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: You're not what he expects. No, it's true. I mean

1040
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: there there's definitely a safety issue. And that's why I

1041
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: am very upfront when I date anyone about what I

1042
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: have going on. But like the Chiche character, I really

1043
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 1: have to applaud logos almost performance in this and like

1044
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: and yes and yes, it's true. He's absolutely correct. It

1045
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: should be this should have been a Transploman. Should it

1046
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: would be a trans Wloman now if they were to

1047
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: make a remaker or a musical adaptation like they're planning.

1048
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: But he really imbued the character with a naturalism and

1049
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: with like just an inherent sort of interior femininity that

1050
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 1: the that the maybe the part didn't really call for,

1051
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: but I picked up on, you know, back then, and

1052
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: I was afraid of it. And I you know, if

1053
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: I had seen that, if I had been more brave,

1054
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: maybe I would have a different path in life. I

1055
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe not, but I just wish in some

1056
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: world that she was able to get the boy. Yeah,

1057
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: that the storyline, because it's so disappointing to me. Another

1058
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: moment where I was just like Vida and yeah, why

1059
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: are you doing this? Let let the girl be happened,

1060
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 1: the girl on the and the and the cute country

1061
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: boy be happy together. Yeah, especially because this this movie,

1062
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: it sounds like it is like presenting itself as this

1063
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: like amazing like Romp, where it's like, I feel like

1064
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: the tone of the movie lends itself to cheat Chee

1065
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: getting the boy. The tone what absolutely would have supported that.

1066
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: And also that boy is way older than Bobby Lee.

1067
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: That wasn't that was not a relationship. Bobby Lee and

1068
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: the Bobbies get together in the end after Chech lets

1069
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 1: the boy Bobby down and like they did like no

1070
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: girl boy. I was also I was like, she's a

1071
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: teenager question mark. But then I looked her up and

1072
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: she's only I think four or five years younger than

1073
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: John like Wisamo that actress. Yeah, it was it was confusing.

1074
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: It was confusingly presented. I thought she was supposed to be. Yeah,

1075
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: she's characterized as being quite young, and they did nothing

1076
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: to clarify that. Yeah, so that was icky. And then yeah,

1077
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: we we we have this story where even though Bobby

1078
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: Ray has known che Chief for all of twelve hours,

1079
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: he's spray painted a Coca Cola sign to say, like,

1080
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: I love you Chee che I mean the tone kind

1081
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: of again, the tone supported that. It just the tone.

1082
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: The tone demanded that they get together, and then when

1083
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: they didn't, that felt like a narrative betrayal. That felt wrong. Yeah, yeah,

1084
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: because their story up until that point is very sweet

1085
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: and pure, and it's you know, once they arrive in

1086
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: the town, you know, it's each of the Queen's kind

1087
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 1: of go on this like side quest where for Vita

1088
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: she is with Carol Anne and then uh Noxima is

1089
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: with Clara and then there's a whole thing going on

1090
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: there that was kind of fun. And but with Cheech,

1091
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: it's like Cheech has the best storyline. She you know,

1092
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 1: meets Bobby Ray. It's very cute. They're like falling in

1093
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,479
Speaker 1: love in this very movie like way. It could have been.

1094
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: It could have been the notebook for trans women, That's

1095
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And it wasn't missed opportunity, huge missed opportunity.

1096
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 1: It really sucks I was. I was very frustrated that

1097
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: that happened, and and that there is that conversation where

1098
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,080
Speaker 1: all three ladies are in their shared room and and

1099
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: I just Vita is so frustrating to me, where I mean,

1100
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: Vida and Maxima are being very cruel to cheat Chee

1101
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: in this scene, they're characterizing her as being selfish for

1102
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: wanting to be with Bobby Ray, which is like ridiculous,

1103
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, what what entitles Bobby Lee? Like

1104
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: what entitles? Yeah, just because she's a cis girl, Like

1105
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: that's I guess that's it. Yeah, it reminds me. It

1106
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: reminds me of some like it Hot Is, like from

1107
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: the fifties. And in the end, so Jack Lemon is

1108
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: Jack Lemon and the other character they're in, they're in

1109
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: dragged to basically high out from the mob, and Jack

1110
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: Lemon's character is is being courted by this guy. And

1111
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: then in the end, like the very ending scene, he's like,

1112
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, I'm actually a man, Like he wasn't trans

1113
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: or anything. He's like, I'm a man. I'm hiding out

1114
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 1: and that guy they that was courting him the whole

1115
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: times as well. You know, nobody's perfect and that's the

1116
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: last line in the film is Nobody's perfect and like

1117
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: implying that I still want you Jacque Lennon, like they

1118
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: did that in the fifties. Yeah, they're okay, Marilyn Monroe movie,

1119
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: the biggest movie that year, had that ending. Yeah, and

1120
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: this movie four decades later, couldn't even fathom the idea

1121
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 1: of a trans woman and Bobby Ray. Yeah, they couldn't.

1122
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 1: They couldn't do a Nobody's perfect. They did it in

1123
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: ninety six, though, whenever that movie came out, right, God,

1124
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: with that context, it is like three times more if

1125
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: you're infuriating, And it's uh that that scene where Cheech

1126
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: is understandably upset that Vida and Noxima are just completely

1127
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: ruling out this romance for her, and she says another

1128
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: thing that you're just like, as one audience member, You're like, yeah,

1129
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: CHEECHI is totally right where she is giving via ship

1130
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 1: and saying, I'm sick and tired of this freakazoid white

1131
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: lady telling a black and Latin lady way is up,

1132
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: down and under and just you know, kind of calling

1133
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: Vita out for thinking that she knows what's best for

1134
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 1: everyone and that her like code of morality is the

1135
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: universe's code of morality. But then the plot acts as

1136
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: if Vita was right, and so it's like, that's another

1137
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,719
Speaker 1: narrative example where it was like, well, does the movie

1138
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: just think that Vita is right about goddamn everything? I just, yeah, yeah,

1139
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 1: I think it does. I think I think the movie

1140
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: was just allowing that like pushback, like acknowledging, hey, all,

1141
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: this is also a point. But also, bet this is

1142
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 1: correct because Vita is because the mother of the cast,

1143
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: so she has to be the correct one because she's

1144
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: the mother. That's what archetypically, that's what they were thinking.

1145
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: I love doing podcasts like this, and I love doing

1146
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 1: my own podcast that is very similar to this, but

1147
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: like I always end up like kind of hating me

1148
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 1: after after we're done talking about it. Did I enjoy this?

1149
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 1: Did I fun watching that? Didn't I laugh? Most of

1150
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: the time, I've I've had so many former favorite movies

1151
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 1: of mine be like, oh funk, I can't like I was.

1152
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 1: I was literally enjoying this movie two days ago. We

1153
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 1: fucked up with our career choices, and it's especially concerning

1154
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: for the movie to make it seem like Vita is

1155
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: right about discouraging Chee Chee from pursuing this relationship. When

1156
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: Vita is saying stuff like you're being devious, you're lying

1157
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 1: to this boy because Chee che has not disclosed her situation,

1158
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 1: whether that be here like to trans status. If there

1159
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: was an arc to that, if there was an art

1160
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 1: to Vita being shitty and coming to realize later on

1161
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:53,560
Speaker 1: that she was being shitty, that it would that be

1162
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: a different story. Characters are allowed to be shitty or

1163
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: totally if we're just a movie where people are just

1164
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: shitty to each other, if we're just Glen Gary Glenn Rosster,

1165
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: trans woman, that would have been that would have been

1166
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 1: a totally different thing. I would watch that. Glen Garry

1167
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: Gun Ross can suck my butt. Wow, Wow, strong words.

1168
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: That's it's a strong response. I know what I'm choosing

1169
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 1: for my birthday. We're doing Glen Gary Glenn Ross. Truly

1170
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 1: the most boring movie I've ever had the displeasure of

1171
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: watching anyway. But yeah, that means so totally we should

1172
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: If they were going to do that, then we should

1173
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 1: have seen some some like come around moment where he

1174
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I was wrong. But of course the

1175
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: movie doesn't think that she was wrong. That's the problem

1176
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: movie things. She's right. Yeah, movie thinks that trans women

1177
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 1: shouldn't be with straight boys, the straight boys should be

1178
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: with straight girls, and you know, never the Twayne shall meet,

1179
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: and that apparently queer people shouldn't be with anybody like well,

1180
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:58,799
Speaker 1: you know, for three centered drag queens. If we trusting

1181
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,760
Speaker 1: the film in internal logic, these are drag queens. These

1182
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: are the least sexual drag queens I've ever seen. I've

1183
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: been around a lot of drag queens, and they there's

1184
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 1: some dirty ladies. Like I said, I attempted to do

1185
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: drag in Florida. Bad choice, by the way, Florida not

1186
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 1: the place to do drag for no other reason. The humidity,

1187
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: of course, uncomfortable, very uncomfortable. But like I, you know,

1188
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 1: I you know, I had a drag mom and I

1189
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:27,639
Speaker 1: had like I to drag moms. I had an evil

1190
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 1: drag mom, and I had a good drag mom. And

1191
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: like the evil drag mom was on crystal meth and

1192
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: was like this total disaster, but taught me all the

1193
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: short cuts, and the good drag mom was very much

1194
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: very much like Vita, almost the same person, but taught

1195
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: me like this kind of like backward like Republican version

1196
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: of drag. But they're also you know, very horny ladies,

1197
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: both of them, and that doesn't necessarily not every drag queen,

1198
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: not every gay person, not every clear person is horny,

1199
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 1: but like there was no sex whatsoever with these any

1200
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 1: of them. They were just fabulous and they mostly talked

1201
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 1: about their outfits and you know, and and the and

1202
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: the capitalists struggle and like they and I get it,

1203
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: it's it's assist film. But like it's like they had

1204
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: room for racial slurs and no one could be horny,

1205
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 1: Like right, yes, exactly, they had room for racist no

1206
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: one could be a morning take out the racism put

1207
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 1: the horny. Yeah, that storyline just really bummed me out. Yeah.

1208
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: The last Vida character assassination that I have to do

1209
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 1: is in that same scene. And this is kind of

1210
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: where the where it becomes clear that's like, oh the

1211
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 1: movie is just is going with Vida's view on things

1212
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 1: kind of in in this just very clear way of

1213
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: like the movie things, Vita is is the correct person.

1214
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: Where they are hearing carol An be abused by her husband. Um,

1215
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: which again, why why why is this happening in a

1216
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 1: Romp and again, I think Naxieva brings up like a

1217
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,680
Speaker 1: pretty nuanced point there where Vida's like, well, we have

1218
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: to go help her, and Naxiema says there are times

1219
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 1: when you help people and then there are times that

1220
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: if you help people you end up being killed, So

1221
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 1: then you don't help people, which is like a pretty

1222
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like in logic it's like, well,

1223
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 1: you have to help everyone at all times, but like

1224
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,640
Speaker 1: if you consider the context that Naxieva's saying that in

1225
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: where again it's like a potential safety issue that it's like, well,

1226
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, I, yeah, she's got a point. She's absolutely

1227
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: as a point, but the movie of course doesn't reinforce

1228
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 1: that there is no actual They're never in any actual danger.

1229
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: Everything is easily solved. But yeah, no, I that was

1230
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 1: really weird because like, yeah, Noxy is right. Unfortunately Noxi

1231
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: is right. You do want to help, but not in

1232
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 1: that way like you know, spirit her away later on

1233
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: when when the coast is clear. You know, there's a

1234
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: lot of things you could do that, aren't you busting

1235
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: down the door and beating the ship out of this

1236
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: guy and you know, putting yourself in danger with the log.

1237
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: You know, again, the tone of the film allowed allowed

1238
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 1: for this to play out in the most in the

1239
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,759
Speaker 1: most flattering way that it could. This is a fantasy movie.

1240
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: It absolutely, it's like hard fantasy. Unintentionally kept reaffirming the

1241
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 1: white lady's perspective as the correct one, or maybe intentionally

1242
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 1: it did, I don't know, but it didn't seem it

1243
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 1: didn't seem to don't seem to entertain much room for argument.

1244
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: That's the other thing too with Vita is that she's

1245
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:44,679
Speaker 1: the only character that we have any backstory on, and

1246
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 1: she's like the white character. Because they drive through Vita's hometown,

1247
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: we find that she's we find out she's estranged from

1248
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 1: her family, that she you know, gave up her family's

1249
01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 1: wealth because they didn't accept her, and then we don't

1250
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 1: get any To be fair, they don't do anything with

1251
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 1: that backstory really, but you defended out. Yeah, you totally

1252
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: just drive on like them. That's where I used to live. Okay, cool,

1253
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 1: moving on while we're on a schedule. So that's it's

1254
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 1: like especially weird then too include that since it doesn't

1255
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 1: even pay off, but it doesn't come back, you can't

1256
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 1: help but notice that the other two characters don't get

1257
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: any kind of backstory like that. Not really, you do,

1258
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: at the very least you get a sense of what

1259
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 1: Noxima wants to do. She's like, I'm gonna go Sorry,

1260
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 1: there's a million sirens, but she like, she's like, I'm

1261
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 1: gonna go to Hollywood and I'm going to be discovered

1262
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be in the pictures. And she's

1263
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 1: like a huge film buff and right, and she she

1264
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: has an arc, a bear arc, but an arc where

1265
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: she's like, is gonna have to deal with me? So

1266
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: she has a little bit of something but no history.

1267
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely right. Yeah, I did enjoy that scene with her

1268
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 1: and Clara the Yeah, the woman that she gets to

1269
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 1: speak for the first time since I think that the

1270
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: reason she didn't speak for a long time is because

1271
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,760
Speaker 1: her husband left her. It was some something like that

1272
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: has been related affliction that that that has that has

1273
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: got to be some sort of like anti Bechtel cast

1274
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: anti Betel Teth. The man leaves and the woman can

1275
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: no longer speak at all. It's like Ariel the Mermaid style,

1276
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:30,840
Speaker 1: just like her voice is in a seashell somewhere. We

1277
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 1: don't really know. He took he took the voice with him,

1278
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,559
Speaker 1: oh god, with his ties clunky as hell. But I

1279
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,560
Speaker 1: liked that scene between the two of them. I like,

1280
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: Wesley Snipes is very good. They're all very good. Is

1281
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 1: it made me wish she had stuck them more comedies.

1282
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: He's so funny in this movie. Yeah. Also, he got

1283
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 1: totally snubbed because Patrick Swayze and John languis Almo both

1284
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: got Golden Globe nominations for their roles in this movie,

1285
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 1: but Leslie Snipes did not. Yeah, well, you know, there

1286
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 1: you go. That's good old. I mean, that's the Globes

1287
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 1: for one. That's wee we finally canceled down and it

1288
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:18,280
Speaker 1: was like took us long enough, but like, well, like yeah,

1289
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 1: that's a there's a lot of cool little scenes in

1290
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 1: this film. That's a great scene. That's that character, actors,

1291
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:26,720
Speaker 1: He's fantastic scene or a million things. Leslie Snipes is

1292
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: so good in that scene, so good in this movie

1293
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:32,840
Speaker 1: in general. That that's the stuff I enjoy, is the

1294
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 1: stuff that's not the plot. It's just them hanging out.

1295
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 1: And I think I think that's what most people enjoy,

1296
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 1: Like like, no one really is, Like when they talk

1297
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 1: about the positive aspects of this film, They're not like, well,

1298
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 1: you know they really that third act turnaround was really awesome,

1299
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 1: Like they it's just the people being people, which is

1300
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: what most movies are, just the people being people. Yeah,

1301
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:58,679
Speaker 1: it's the queer characters fixing the lives of these straight

1302
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 1: people and um giving them makeovers. I was talking to

1303
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, straight woman, and she's dating this guy,

1304
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: older man in in Las Vegas and she wants to

1305
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: spend the week with him, and they were staying at

1306
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 1: his friend's place for a couple of days, and basically

1307
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 1: his friends were like, we don't understand trans gender. Explain

1308
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 1: it to us, white straight lady. And then she then

1309
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: she was telling me all about how how she you know,

1310
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:31,839
Speaker 1: she explained it to them, and that you were fighting

1311
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 1: with her and then she got it and she's looking

1312
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 1: at me like do I get up? Do I get

1313
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 1: a cookie or something like that? And I'm like, and

1314
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: she's basically like, what what would you What would you

1315
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 1: have done? Well? If I were in that situation is

1316
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 1: what I said. I would have left because I I

1317
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: don't want to do that. I don't want I don't

1318
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: want to educate the straits. That is not your burden

1319
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: to bear not my friend. And you know, if a

1320
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: if a room full of Trump supporters as me to

1321
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:04,720
Speaker 1: explain transgender to them, that's a trap. I'm I am

1322
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: leaving that room in Vegas, no less, in Vegas, not less,

1323
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: where the desert, everywhere? Yes, yeah, leave the room. Break

1324
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 1: up with the guy whose friends are those people? Yes,

1325
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: go away? That's like that happens again. Don't do that?

1326
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: Just go away? Yeah? Does anyone have anything else they'd

1327
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 1: like to talk about? You know? I again, I enjoyed

1328
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 1: the film for what it was. There's a lot you

1329
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,679
Speaker 1: kind of have to just roll with it this movie.

1330
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: But what it was to me is a movie about

1331
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 1: three trans women that are friends with each other. And

1332
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:45,679
Speaker 1: even though they say a lot of weird racist it

1333
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: isn't necessary or or at all desired. They were friends

1334
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 1: and they were nice and they had fun. And that

1335
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 1: is a quality in queer cinema that we don't see

1336
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 1: enough of, especially in the limited experience of trance movies.

1337
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 1: You know, when I was picking films to discuss with

1338
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 1: with y'all, I wanted to discuss something trans related because

1339
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 1: that's my experience, and I think it's important that people

1340
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 1: with the experience talk about their experiences. But I also

1341
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 1: didn't want to pick like a downer and like that's

1342
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 1: that's a tough one. Like I want to talk about

1343
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 1: queer Joy, I want to talk about trans joy, Like

1344
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,759
Speaker 1: that's where that's where I'm coming from a comedian. I

1345
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: I like like fun and so this was what I

1346
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:35,719
Speaker 1: had to work with. And it and as that as

1347
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 1: fill in the correct terminology in your own head when

1348
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 1: they say drag queen to say transpleman in your head,

1349
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 1: just make the edit in your own mind and it'll

1350
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 1: be a little better. And just ignore. Go go make

1351
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,800
Speaker 1: some key during those couple of scenes, and we talked

1352
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 1: about otherwise, it's a it's a fun little romp. It's

1353
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:58,839
Speaker 1: a fun rump. And yeah, for for anyone who especially

1354
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: like when this movie was coming out, when there were

1355
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 1: so little other options for queer representation in cinema, especially

1356
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: queer Joy. So for anyone who saw themselves represented, who

1357
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: saw themselves in those characters, that means a lot. That's

1358
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 1: we we don't want to take that away from anyone.

1359
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 1: What we do want to take away from someone is

1360
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 1: what's the writer's name? Against want to take it away

1361
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: to the pen from Douglas Carter be and company. Uh no,

1362
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: with all to say it really fun to say it

1363
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 1: with all respected, Douglas Carter being uh your name is

1364
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: wanted to say, we're taking your pen um? Yeah, yeah,

1365
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 1: what what? I hope and I watching this movie. It

1366
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:54,559
Speaker 1: for all of its faults, it is such a fun

1367
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 1: romp and there is so much joy and it is

1368
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 1: just like fun to watch these ladies be friends and

1369
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 1: you know, navigate conflict in a very dated way, but

1370
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 1: they're navigating conflict in their friendships. And I hope that

1371
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 1: this is the sort of movie that, you know, just

1372
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 1: paves the way for for more movies like it that

1373
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:17,800
Speaker 1: you don't need to you know, plow through the dissonance,

1374
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,280
Speaker 1: and that there there will be more movies that are

1375
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 1: just like translators on a road trip, like having fun

1376
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 1: Like that sounds wonderful, like let's get that. One thing

1377
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:32,639
Speaker 1: I did like about this film, and from especially refreshing,

1378
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,639
Speaker 1: is that there were no coming out discussions. There were

1379
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 1: no like when did you know you were different type discussions,

1380
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: which is basically what so many of queer representation was.

1381
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 1: It was you were either talking about coming out or

1382
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: you were dealing with some terrible disease and or social affliction. Yeah,

1383
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 1: like there there was other textures to their life, which

1384
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:57,720
Speaker 1: was very very refreshing for me to see something from

1385
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,600
Speaker 1: that time that did that for sure. Yeah. And I

1386
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 1: like the chee chee wins at the end. I mean,

1387
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:06,639
Speaker 1: that's that's her consolation prize for for you know, losing

1388
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:09,759
Speaker 1: the boy. She gets. She gets, she gets the crown

1389
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: instead of the boy. She has the sacrifice her love for,

1390
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, to become royalty. Yes, exactly, because that's that's

1391
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: her head wigging the angry inch moment. She's she's just

1392
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 1: she sacrifices for success. That's another movie we have to cover. Okay, Sorry,

1393
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 1: this is like I promised the last thing to say.

1394
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: But like Bobby Ray again, it's just like a character

1395
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: logic thing, but like he just pivots so quickly where

1396
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 1: like he's love with cheechee cheese is the love of

1397
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: my life. And then she's like not now. And then

1398
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 1: he's like I'm going to get married to I was like,

1399
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 1: do you just what is what's going on in your head?

1400
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 1: Bobby Ray? Walk me through this. He just loves the

1401
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:59,719
Speaker 1: woman who is closest to him. He loves loves remember

1402
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 1: her love was love in love with love. Whoever is

1403
01:25:02,479 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 1: geographically closest to him in that moment, that's who he loves.

1404
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 1: By the end, I was like, he's not good enough

1405
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 1: for you, chee cheet, this man has no he's easily Yeah,

1406
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 1: no he really wasn't. But like they could have made

1407
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 1: that into some kind of character work that they could

1408
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: have played with that. But now that was just bad writing.

1409
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 1: That was just straight people. Now they're being straight together.

1410
01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: So many things get like too easily resolved or inexplicably resolved,

1411
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: or things will go on a weird trajectory that doesn't

1412
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 1: make any sense, you know. So goes the ROMP. So

1413
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 1: goes the ROMP. Yes, straight up. Uh So, let's talk

1414
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 1: about the Bechtel test as it applies to this movie.

1415
01:25:56,520 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 1: If we are operating on these three women being trans women,

1416
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 1: then yes, the movie passes all the time. It passes

1417
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:09,759
Speaker 1: the Bechtel test handily because the characters are so neutered

1418
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 1: they have no real sexuality except for Cheat a little

1419
01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: tiny bit. She's basically like she's basically like this nineteen

1420
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:22,800
Speaker 1: fifties like Peyton Place type at that point, right, So

1421
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 1: she's she has she has romantic interest but no sexual interests.

1422
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:30,799
Speaker 1: But the Naxi and and Vida have have no sexuality whatsoever.

1423
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 1: Just about so, yes, it passes the Bechtel test. There's

1424
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 1: probably some other test that it doesn't pass. We don't

1425
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 1: know what that test is. There are there are definite

1426
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:49,559
Speaker 1: tests it does not but um oh, Actually I do

1427
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 1: want to shout out the May test, which was created

1428
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 1: by transactor and filmmaker Kylie May, and the May test

1429
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 1: examines trans representation on screen. We will link to some

1430
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:05,759
Speaker 1: information about that. It's definitely worth checking out. I also

1431
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 1: want to shout out a few lines of dialogue from

1432
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: the movie that I enjoy. Um. This one is from

1433
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 1: Carol Anne tu Vita says, I think it's really important

1434
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 1: for a woman to have lady friends. Nice do you

1435
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 1: are you? Including in these lines the last bit of

1436
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:31,559
Speaker 1: dialogue between the two of them that weird exchange where

1437
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: she's like, I don't think of you as as a

1438
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 1: man or as a woman as a woman. I think

1439
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:40,639
Speaker 1: of you as an angel, and then the responds with

1440
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 1: I think that's healthy. Healthy response blew my mind. I

1441
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 1: You know what though, I actually kind of enjoyed that

1442
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:52,280
Speaker 1: response because as a trans worman I have had plenty

1443
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: of straight women tell me new straight says, women tell

1444
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 1: me that they think of me as an angel or

1445
01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 1: as you know, some sort of superhuman or whatever. Like

1446
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: I've had. I've had plenty of like women confess that

1447
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm some sort of like thing beyond humanity. Yeah, some

1448
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:14,599
Speaker 1: sort of like walking got us among us, and like,

1449
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:20,719
Speaker 1: I'm far from that. But it's better than it's better

1450
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 1: than hate. So when Vita says, I think that's healthy,

1451
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,639
Speaker 1: that's kind of my response is, like, well, it's better

1452
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 1: than hate. I think that's healthy. I think that's that's something. Anyway,

1453
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:35,519
Speaker 1: That's what I took away from it. That was the

1454
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 1: one that was the one moment from like Vita's perspective,

1455
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: from like, yeah, girl, I I get it. Take take

1456
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 1: the W, take the W and just walk away. I

1457
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:51,600
Speaker 1: liked Swazy's delivery of that line too. Yeah it's just fun. Uh.

1458
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,759
Speaker 1: And then earlier in the movie, Carol Ann also says,

1459
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,599
Speaker 1: and this doesn't technically pass because she mentions men as

1460
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,160
Speaker 1: a concept, but she's like, I think we should get

1461
01:29:02,240 --> 01:29:04,679
Speaker 1: rid of all men. But I feel like that does

1462
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:08,240
Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel test because but then also she's like,

1463
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 1: but we can we can keep mel Gibson. Oh yeah, yeah,

1464
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:17,800
Speaker 1: it's but then she says he's not allowed to think

1465
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 1: or speak, and I was like, that's better. Okay, has

1466
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:23,640
Speaker 1: an improvement. If mel Gibson has to be alive, I

1467
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: too do not want him to think. You should not

1468
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:33,040
Speaker 1: think mel Gibson is allowed, but only as an automaton

1469
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 1: do it? Um? Yeah. And then we've got our nipple scale,

1470
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 1: our scale of zero to five nipples, in which we

1471
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 1: rate the movie based on how it fares looking at

1472
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:53,160
Speaker 1: it through an intersectional feminist lens. So it is, as

1473
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 1: we've discussed, very much a product of its time. Understandings

1474
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:07,240
Speaker 1: of gender identity, gender expression, sexuality were things that most

1475
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 1: people in did not have a very nuanced understanding of,

1476
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 1: including everyone who made this movie was so unintentional, I

1477
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 1: intentional good stuff. Yeah. So, you know, it's not gonna

1478
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 1: fair great because of that. It's not going to um

1479
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 1: fair great because of all the casual racism the many

1480
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:39,160
Speaker 1: of the characters display, including two of which who we

1481
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,639
Speaker 1: are supposed to be rooting for. You know, it's it's

1482
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: got of a lot of problems of the time. But

1483
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:51,480
Speaker 1: then but then you have again, like queer representation, misguided

1484
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:55,880
Speaker 1: though it may be in a huge movie with huge

1485
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:59,880
Speaker 1: stars that a lot of people saw that it does,

1486
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, celebrate queer joy, which was very rare for

1487
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:08,640
Speaker 1: that time especially. But even so, I feel like I

1488
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:14,519
Speaker 1: can only give it like two nipples because bringing it

1489
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 1: back around to the because thing, I will give one.

1490
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:23,840
Speaker 1: I'll give one to cheat chee. I'll give one to

1491
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 1: the conversation between Noxima and what was a character's named Clara,

1492
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:32,320
Speaker 1: Clara who they talk about movies and like old Hollywood stars.

1493
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:35,320
Speaker 1: I really liked that scene, so very sweet and I

1494
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:38,280
Speaker 1: learned things. I was like, I always love when the

1495
01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:43,320
Speaker 1: movie sneakily teaches me something, right, Yeah, scene, yeah, totally

1496
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: that scene Noxima is like, oh my, one of my

1497
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:50,000
Speaker 1: favorite actors was I forget the name of the woman,

1498
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 1: but she's like she she's a black woman, but she

1499
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 1: never Dorothy yah. Yeah, she never. She never played the

1500
01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 1: help and she was in all these amazing roles. But

1501
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:03,200
Speaker 1: then she, you know, the white Hollywood machine like chewed

1502
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:06,680
Speaker 1: her up and spit her out, um BRB, gotta go

1503
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: be racist to cheat, And it's like, what are you

1504
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 1: talking about next? Em And the way that scene ends

1505
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 1: to where it's like, I don't know, I love old

1506
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:18,680
Speaker 1: Hollywood stuff. And when Clara ends it by being like,

1507
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 1: let's do Lena Horn next, and I was like, oh,

1508
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:23,800
Speaker 1: this seems so fun. Yeah, that was a that was

1509
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:25,880
Speaker 1: a cool little scene. Scenes where the people are being

1510
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:28,680
Speaker 1: people are great. I would I would have to rate

1511
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 1: a slightly higher on the nipple scale only because of

1512
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 1: its relative um as a queer person. We're so used

1513
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 1: to being forgiving of our texts, understanding the flawed as

1514
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:45,160
Speaker 1: they may be, because they are so rare, we we

1515
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,479
Speaker 1: have to kind of like we have to love them

1516
01:32:48,520 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 1: even though they are imperfect. We have to love them

1517
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 1: anyway because they are ours and we have so few.

1518
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:59,440
Speaker 1: Totally fair. So I'm going to give it three nipples

1519
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:03,799
Speaker 1: based on that, and really highly disappointed into casual racism,

1520
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:07,840
Speaker 1: and that's probably the thing that makes me detract from

1521
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 1: what the most, as well as it's incredibly poor depiction

1522
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:16,440
Speaker 1: of of domestic violence, because those are those are completely unnecessary.

1523
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 1: Those are generally unnecessary anyway, but they're completely necessary to

1524
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:21,760
Speaker 1: the to the film, and the film just leaves them

1525
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 1: be basically, so an imperfect vessel of queer joy. Yes,

1526
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to give it three nipples. That's how I feel, awesome, Jamie,

1527
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 1: what about you? I guess I guess I'll split the

1528
01:33:36,360 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 1: DIF and I'll do it two and a half here.

1529
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 1: I I don't think that I have anything to say

1530
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 1: that we haven't said already. But the casual racism in

1531
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 1: particular was really frustrating and unnecessary. And the fact that

1532
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 1: they were able to justify certain things, be like certain

1533
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 1: instances of violence being there, but then they wouldn't allow

1534
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:03,120
Speaker 1: their three queer main characters to have love lives is

1535
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:10,080
Speaker 1: just so. Dare I say there? There are a lot

1536
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:13,960
Speaker 1: of elements that watching this in are frustrating, But I also,

1537
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, want to hold space for in respect for

1538
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:21,600
Speaker 1: the fact that this movie was made and was a success,

1539
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:24,599
Speaker 1: and that it was pushed for at a time where

1540
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:27,120
Speaker 1: movies like this we're not pushed for in the mainstream

1541
01:34:27,160 --> 01:34:30,639
Speaker 1: and this is a sucking Steven Spielberg movie like and

1542
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:33,680
Speaker 1: and knowing more about the context that this movie was

1543
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:36,960
Speaker 1: released in, you know, doesn't fix things, doesn't make the

1544
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 1: most glaring issues that this movie has better, but it

1545
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 1: did help me understand and and you know, at least

1546
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:49,639
Speaker 1: give makes me hope for romps like this that are

1547
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,280
Speaker 1: not burdened with the same issues that this movie is

1548
01:34:53,479 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 1: burdened with because they tried. I well, U it seems

1549
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:05,160
Speaker 1: like they tried. Okay to two and a half. And

1550
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:11,439
Speaker 1: I'll give one to chee chee. I'll give oh Naomi

1551
01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:14,840
Speaker 1: Campbell is in this movie for a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1552
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:18,639
Speaker 1: I guess I'll give one to her. And I will

1553
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 1: put the last half in the trunk of the car

1554
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,280
Speaker 1: and see if anyone finds it later. Just really quick

1555
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:28,719
Speaker 1: assigned my nipples. I've forgotten that this about this part.

1556
01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 1: A critical gets a nipple, obviously, I will say Naxi

1557
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 1: and that's and the lady in the talking about old

1558
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:43,880
Speaker 1: movies and Darky Andrews gets just gets a nipple. And

1559
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that the final nipple goes to the

1560
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 1: too Wong food scene, which we completely the very opening

1561
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 1: scene where we're not very opening, but the opening scene

1562
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:54,960
Speaker 1: where they're stealing the picture off the wall and they're

1563
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:58,080
Speaker 1: being kind of racist towards each other. Yes, absolutely, but

1564
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:03,040
Speaker 1: that scene, in that bit where Vita steals the picture,

1565
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 1: I'm giving a nipple too, because it's the only transgressive

1566
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:10,439
Speaker 1: thing Vida does in the entire film. True, she is

1567
01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 1: she is. She is such a saint every time everywhere

1568
01:36:13,479 --> 01:36:15,599
Speaker 1: else in this movie. But she steals the two Wong

1569
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 1: Food picture, steals the Juliannumar picture because it speaks to her,

1570
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:22,759
Speaker 1: and then she gives it away to stop your channing

1571
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,719
Speaker 1: as she starts her new life. So to Vita stealing

1572
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:30,160
Speaker 1: to Julie Numar, the insiding incident that the titular Julie

1573
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:32,719
Speaker 1: Numar to Wong Food Picture, I give my final nipple.

1574
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:37,320
Speaker 1: Two beautiful and Gina, thank you so much for joining us.

1575
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:39,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for you for having me. What

1576
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 1: a treat to come back anytime. Thank you. I'm sorry

1577
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:46,800
Speaker 1: we ruined the movie. No, it's okay, okay, But now

1578
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: that I have, now that I've been on the show

1579
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:51,720
Speaker 1: and I've spoken for for trans representation, should you have

1580
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:55,120
Speaker 1: me back on. I'm going to talk about something not

1581
01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 1: trans because I have more than that to me. I

1582
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 1: am a big fan of the Fast and Furious franchise.

1583
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: I'm on many other things, so we can go on

1584
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 1: and on about all kinds of stuff. The next time

1585
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 1: come back on fore nine is that yes nine, and

1586
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:18,720
Speaker 1: they bring the Asian dude back from the dead for

1587
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:24,880
Speaker 1: a second time. So there you go very excited. I

1588
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:28,200
Speaker 1: have only seen the first two and then Hobbs and Shaw,

1589
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 1: so I need to catch up on my Fasts and

1590
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:35,799
Speaker 1: the Furious. That's just a for instance. There's all there's

1591
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:39,519
Speaker 1: a there's a whole hundred and twenty years of cinema

1592
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 1: out there that I would love to talk about. Anytime

1593
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:46,840
Speaker 1: you guys would have me back, We'll open it up.

1594
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 1: We'd be delighted, love it. And then where can people

1595
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:53,680
Speaker 1: follow you online and check out your stuff? Check out

1596
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:58,280
Speaker 1: your upcoming tour dates? So all my socials are at

1597
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:01,160
Speaker 1: Gina Bloom, j E and a B L o M.

1598
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:05,760
Speaker 1: That's mostly Twitter and Instagram. You can find me in

1599
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:11,320
Speaker 1: the fallow September, I'll be touring the southern US Asheville, Atlanta,

1600
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:15,200
Speaker 1: New Orleans. More dates to come. I'll get that up there,

1601
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 1: and also New York City because I am originally a

1602
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:20,240
Speaker 1: New York lady, so I'll be returning there. So it

1603
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:22,719
Speaker 1: will be both the South and New York in the fall.

1604
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:27,000
Speaker 1: And the new season of my podcast We Jamie and

1605
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,760
Speaker 1: Caitlin have already been on and we had a delightful time.

1606
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:33,400
Speaker 1: We'll also be premiering in the fall as well. I

1607
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 1: talk about movies and other stuff. It's all it's all

1608
01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:39,719
Speaker 1: about translating, making fun of bro stuff. So you enjoy

1609
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:43,360
Speaker 1: me talking about this. You can find me on my

1610
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:48,400
Speaker 1: show talking about Bruce Willis movies. Please and please do

1611
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:51,679
Speaker 1: please check it out and you can check us out

1612
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at Bechtel Cast. We've got our

1613
01:38:56,160 --> 01:38:59,960
Speaker 1: Patreon a k a. Matreon. It's five dollars a month.

1614
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:04,120
Speaker 1: It's to bonus episodes each month, plus access to the

1615
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:08,320
Speaker 1: whole back catalog, and it's at patreon dot com, slash

1616
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:11,920
Speaker 1: Becktel Cast and you can grab some merch if you're

1617
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:15,760
Speaker 1: so inclined at t public dot com slash at the

1618
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:21,080
Speaker 1: Bactel Cast. That's where all the stuff is incredible. And

1619
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:27,880
Speaker 1: with that to Gina Bloom, thanks for everything the facts,

1620
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 1: Caitlin and Jamie, are you guys? That was heartwarming? Thank you,

1621
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:42,720
Speaker 1: thank you for everything everything, Bye bye