1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,119 Speaker 1: I remember so clearly the first time I told this story. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: It was to my good friend Johnny at a bar 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: in Atlanta during the summer of two thousand and three. 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: After a few bourbon on the rocks, the details were 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: just flowing out of me. Muhammad Ali was back to 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: boxing in the fall of nineteen seventy after a three 7 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: year suspension for refusing to enter the military draft. There 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: were celebrities, politician, journalists, and hustlers from all over the 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: country that converged into Atlanta to celebrate his return. I 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: told him about a hustler named Gordon Williams, a k a. 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: Chicken Man, who was throwing the biggest party of his life. 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: But when his guests walked inside, they were greeted by 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: seven mask gunmen. Was sawed off shotguns who escorted them 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: down to the basement, stripped them out of their clothes, 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: and robbed them of a million dollars in cash and jewelry. 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: When I was done, Johnny looked at me with a 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: shocked expression on his face. Slowly, he turned to the 18 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: stranger sitting at the barn is left and said, you've 19 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: got to hear this story. Then he looked back at 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: me and demanded, tell it again, Jeff Okay, Johnny here 21 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: it is. Why did the press keep following this story? 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Mamma Ali, Cassius Clay, there's not one number two. It 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: was a big robber. You're ready to worry Blackmark. Yeah, 24 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: I said they had robbed the blackmark. This fight represented 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: the brace Muhammad Ali. All the hotels were so loud, 26 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: guys had their rolls royces flown to a Maxi beautiful people. 27 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Little bit star Ali was in exile in the boxing community. 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: He was stripped of his heavyweight title and the big 29 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: fight commissions. No one would touch him. They wasn't diving 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: and they were serious dropped because they hadn't known when 31 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: they were robbing. Then they were robbed. So when did 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: the investigation end? You wanted from my Heart radio and 33 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: doghouse Pictures. This is fight Night. I'm Jeff Keithing. Ever 34 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: since I was a kid, I've had a passion for 35 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: true crime. It all started forty years ago with my 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: dad in a hotel room in New York City. He 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: showed me a very r rated film, The French Connection 38 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: Behind My Mom's Back. This nine seventies true crime thriller 39 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: star Gene Hackman as the fearless detective pop by Doyle 40 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: and Fernando Ray as the cunning French heroine smuggler known 41 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: as Frog One. It was a classic depiction of cop 42 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: versus criminal, cat versus mouse, but also showed the incredibly 43 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: thin line between police and the criminals they chase. Needless 44 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: to say, I was hooked. Fast forward twenty years later, 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: my dad told me a true prime story that had 46 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: all the same things I loved about that movie. This 47 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: one was based in my hometown of Atlanta, Georgia. Another 48 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: classic case of cop versus criminal, but this time the 49 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: cat protects the mouse. Good morning, Good morning, sir. How 50 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: are you doing. I think I'm okay. This is my dad, 51 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: Tom Keating. He was in Atlanta the night of the fight. 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: In fact, he was at the hotel where Muhammad Ali 53 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: was staying, and I called him to ask him a 54 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: few questions about what it was like, and I would 55 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: have been out of my element. And it was just 56 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: an overwhelming array of glitter and clothing and colors and 57 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: festivities and pomp and circumstance, which later was called the 58 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, the most unusual collection of black power and 59 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: black money, uh and sports and in history coming together 60 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: in a city, in our city, in the city that 61 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: I've been in since, so it would have been just 62 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: over years later. When I was an aspiring screenwriter in 63 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: my early thirties, my dad told me this incredible story 64 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: for the very first time. He remembered the headline from 65 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: the morning he left on his honeymoon with my mom, 66 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: so I dragged him down to the Decatur Library to 67 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:29,239 Speaker 1: find out more. After hours searching through microfilm, we finally 68 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: got it. This is from the Atlanta Journal Evening edition, 69 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: October ninety. It was written by Orville Gaines and Larry Woods. 70 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: The headline reads like this, after fight partygoers robbed of 71 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand in cash jewelry. My dad grinned when 72 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: he saw my reaction, and I said to him, this 73 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: is going to be my next film. This set me 74 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: on a path that led to the podcast you're listening 75 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: to right now. The interviews in this show spent is 76 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: to four decades and were sourced from all kinds of 77 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: things like VHS tapes, microcossette camp orders, phone calls, anything 78 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,119 Speaker 1: I could get my hands on. Some of these tapes 79 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: were never meant to be heard by anyone but me, 80 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: so bear with me because some of the recordings are 81 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: higher quality than others. But now many of the people 82 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: involved in this story are no longer alive, and I 83 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: need you to hear from them, the ones who lived it, 84 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: in their own words, so you can truly believe what happened. 85 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: After researching several more articles from newspapers around the country, 86 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: I was able to zero in on one of the 87 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: top cops on the case, J D. Hudson, and with 88 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 1: the help that the Public Affairs Division of the Atlanta 89 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: Police Department, I tracked him down and got an interview. 90 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: On July one, two thousand two, I parked my STUV 91 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: on a street in southwest Atlanta and walked to the 92 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: front of J. D. Hudson's house. I knocked lightly on 93 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: the door and waited. When he finally came out, j 94 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: D immediately reminded me of the character Shaft played by 95 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: Richard Rowntree in the nineteen seventies crime films Shit, Chef's 96 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: his name, Chef's his game. He blocked the entrance while 97 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: puffing on a white out miniature cigar and blew a 98 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: big smoke ring that engulfed my head. He said, I 99 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: don't have to talk to you. I don't have to 100 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: talk to anybody, now get inside. While I was grateful 101 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: to escape the heat, j D was not particularly welcoming. 102 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: He didn't say a word as he led me back 103 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: to his living room and plopped down into his worn recliner. 104 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: Turned his attention back to the Williams sisters playing at 105 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: Wimbledon on TV. J D made it clear he would 106 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: not be turning off the game, though we did lower 107 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: the volume and notch is kind of a throwaway courtesy. 108 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: I pressed the record button and I asked my first quest, 109 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: gen what happened the night of the robbery? All right, 110 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: take me back to this party, because I'm so confused 111 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: about the point I think. Let me try to get 112 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: that you thankless birthday. J D told me about a 113 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: hustler named Fireball who asked his friend Chicken Man, toast 114 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: a big party in Atlanta after the Ali Corey fight. 115 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: Who's who of hustlers and gangsters from New York, Philly, 116 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: Miami and other big cities around the country were all invited. 117 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: Chicken Man wanted this to be like New Year's Eve, 118 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl and Marty Grawl all rolled into one 119 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: big party and matter after the frightenes. Okay, when you 120 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: talk about a hustles party, rich very rich people, heaven, 121 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: the food you can eat right out of you can 122 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: drink Okay, Okay, that the big chatter they depend the 123 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: girls man. Okay, movie kind of stuff and expects him 124 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: and how about a day you know? Right? J D 125 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: had risen through the ranks of the Atlanta Police Department 126 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: to become the first black man in charge of internal affairs. 127 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: He also knew the world of these hustlers, and he 128 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: personally knew several of the people directly involved in the 129 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: party and the robbery. In fact, he grew up with 130 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: some of them in a predominantly black neighborhood in Atlanta 131 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: known as Buttermilk Bottom. I grew at an Atlanta the 132 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: neighborhood known as the Whole foot Water but that was 133 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: baptized at age twelve and the Butt Street Baptist Stretch 134 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: from Butler Street. I looked at the Salmon School. There 135 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: was some check Jackson and d l being on a Wednesday. 136 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: J D knew the world of hustlers and low level 137 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: criminals from an early age, but he was also front 138 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: and center in the earliest days of the civil rights movement. 139 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: Also that I had contact with Andy. I'm starting to 140 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: cooking and King and I were friends. And yeah, most 141 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: people in the movement Lenne King then Brown as we 142 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: grew up together, griping in my MC together. The Butler 143 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: Street y m c A was a very important institution 144 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: located uh in the Sweet Arban district of the Old 145 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: Fourth Ward. This is Dr Maurice Hobson, Atlanta historian, scholar 146 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: and author of the award winning book The Legend of 147 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: the Black Mecca, Politics and Class and the Making of 148 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: Modern Atlanta. Though it served, as you know, a venue 149 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: for the young Man's Christian Association, it also served as 150 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: the venue for the Hungry Club, which was the black 151 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: political sphere in Atlanta. So any political figure that was 152 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: interested in courting the black vote had to come to 153 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: the Butler Street y m c A. As with most 154 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: places in the United States, African Americans were designated it 155 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: two low lying areas that oftentimes with flood it was 156 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: undesirable land because standing water or stagnant water that made 157 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: it more accessible for yellow fever malaria across the American South. 158 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: If you lived in that area, that was called the bottom. 159 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: So every black community across the American South, there's always 160 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: the bottoms, and it usually floods. That particular area becomes 161 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: very much a haven. As to how Black America really 162 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: begins to congregate, j D never intended to be a cop, 163 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: but when he decided to take the officers exam, he 164 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: aced it. He was destined for a life enforcing the 165 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: law as one of Atlanta's first black policeman. And I 166 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: sat down and picks in and made the highes bo 167 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: that side. It came up faces. I was one in 168 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: the chief praade with Herbert Jenkins, and he sware me 169 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: in as a Niga Polies, sware me in as a Nigatholies. 170 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: J D dealt with the same struggles that many black 171 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: men and women faced in Atlanta during the Civil Rights movement, 172 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: and the chief of Police, Herberty Jenkins, who swore j 173 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: D n using a racial slur, would develop into a 174 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: progressive leader defending the black citizens in the city. You 175 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: noticed I I didn't notice it. I just thought about 176 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: a respect because I'm used later when he evolved and 177 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: founded being one of the most liberal police chiefs in 178 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: the country. There's no accident that the headquarters of all 179 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,599 Speaker 1: the civil rights movements located in the Atlantic because the 180 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: protection the lad Abo Atlanta said the government through her 181 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: Virginia's he would not allow whites to attack rights in Amata, 182 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: and he demanded were not have arresting. Atlanta was not 183 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: gonna be torn about our rights. Now. We were restrictive. 184 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: We could not arrest right people. We could not arrest 185 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: white people in Atlanta. When the first black cops were 186 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: commissioned by the City of Atlanta, it was seen as 187 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: purely ceremonial and symbolic. However, the power bestowed upon them 188 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: as police officers had little to no effect. They had 189 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: no real policing powers. They could not arrest white people. 190 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: They were not even allowed to use the locker rooms 191 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: at the Atlanta Police station, and so they had to 192 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: get dressed at the Butler Street Y m c A. 193 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: And we worked uh all of the Avenue Van City 194 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: far as the avenue whatever. That was gradually expanded, but 195 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: we started it was very restrictive. Things eight hours. We 196 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 1: were not allowed to drive through his uniform through the 197 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: white community. We were not allowed to well our uniforms 198 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: home made defense on white prison. It was fascinating. You know, 199 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: you're a guy who had unprecedented authority in the back community, 200 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: no black man and whield the authority and in latter 201 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: in the city. As a matter of fact, that a 202 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: black policeman did, people did what you told him to do. 203 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: People ask you for information, that you were the webserviction there. 204 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: People smiled and waved at you. As a matter of fact, 205 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: people who followed us around us that we want as 206 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: every one on. Black people were very proud about. Yes 207 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: they were. Black communities of Atlanta were extremely proud of 208 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: these black police officers. And one of the things that 209 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: was characteristic of these police officers is that many of 210 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: them were from the community in which they were police, 211 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: and so there was a trust between black communities and 212 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: the black police officers. And the rules and laws changed, 213 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: you still had hostility, had resentment. Ah ask a couple 214 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: of guys who didn't want to work from me, who 215 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: were white. Once they wake from me, they want to 216 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: leave men. I was hin the top of the hill, 217 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: I was hot, stunned, I was police celebrity. That was 218 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: the vie White brothers on the police department. He's a 219 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: big to write with me. So it makes some cases. 220 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: J D had been dealing with inequality and racial tension 221 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: on the Atlanta police force for years. In fact, early 222 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: on he wasn't allowed to arrest white people, but he 223 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: would eventually be faced with an even more complicated dilemma 224 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: having to arrest black people who were out fighting for 225 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: his rights as a black man. This tension came to 226 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: a head at a place called Lebs Diner. Here's Dr 227 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: Hobson so. Lebs Diner was a New York delicatessen that 228 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: was located across from what is now the rialto Unlucky 229 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: and Forsyth in the early nineties sixties. It was a 230 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: whites only restaurant with the students of the Atlanta Student movement. 231 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: It was one of the restaurants where black students would 232 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: come and promote non violent direct action. And so this 233 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: was one of the lunch counters that they would go 234 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: to and to be seated in a respectful manner, and 235 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: usually the police would show up, had to arrest people. 236 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: Uh done. It's a rights movement who were fighting for 237 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: my freedom, half of my right to vote, my right 238 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: to be a citizen at the resting. You know, so, 239 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: I guess I should be a very bitter man. Some 240 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: of the challenges of a black police officer was how 241 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: to earned the respect of their constituency, but at the 242 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: same time, how to enforce the laws which sometimes are 243 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: created to marginalize this franchise, criminalized and demonized the same communities, 244 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: and which the from Oftentimes, black police officers may have 245 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: been harder on black communities then white police officers, because 246 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: what the black police officers were trying to do was 247 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: trying to show the white establishment that they were not 248 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: like some of these criminals in the black community. Being 249 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: one of the first black police officers in the country 250 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: was very empowering for j D. But it also presented 251 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: a constant dream of moral dilemmas. As he rose through 252 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: the ranks of the Atlanta p D, his job became 253 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: increasingly complicated, a delicate balancing act between his responsibilities and 254 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: limitations as a black cop. By seventy j D. Hudson 255 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: had been promoted to the head of internal affairs for 256 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police Department, having risen through the ranks more slowly, 257 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: he says, because he was never one to suck up 258 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: to his superiors. It was the same year that j 259 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: D was given an incredible assignment to guard Muhammad Ali, 260 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: a k A. Cassius Clay. In the days leading up 261 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: to his triumphant return to boxing, I had the responsibility 262 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: of Goden Cassius Clay, because that in about five thousand 263 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: threats against the Slight. So I had been with him 264 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: all day, and I cared him to the fight and 265 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: led him into the range. Matter of fact, I got 266 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: beat up. See his head is on around me and 267 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: I was walking in front of it. God was practically 268 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: only hid and so I was a debate that stayed 269 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: with him for twenty whiles a day, seven days a week. 270 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: The time he got into and he left, I ran 271 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: into all kinds of people rich and the famous and 272 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: all that stuff. But j D had no idea about 273 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: the million dollar heist which was brewing behind the scenes 274 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: of Ali's comeback fight, or that less than twenty four 275 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: hours later the chief of police would assign him the 276 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: case of his life. J D's assignment made perfect sense. 277 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: He was the best man for the job and one 278 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: of the only men on the force who was able 279 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: to navigate the world of both cops and criminals, and 280 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: he understood the relationship between the two. Were there any 281 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: police than they were in love to, you know, illegal 282 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: activities back in the seventies of that time, policeman involved, 283 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: and every hustle and every city in this country. Okay, 284 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: money is exchanging hands, always had, always as well, okay, 285 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: and the press is trying to clean us up, right, 286 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: And I'm being a trader to the policeman because they 287 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: don't like me, because this ain't supposed to say it. 288 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: Everybody loves the cooking cops get red boded those and 289 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: everybody encourages the proper to be cooking. They won't admitted. 290 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: Oh hell, I don't care. Two manion policemen m two 291 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: many hustles paroh right. See, that's a world if you 292 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: don't know about it. That's what I'm trying to reach 293 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: as the world girl't know about. Chief of Police Herberty 294 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: Jenkins needed j D for two reasons, to navigate racial tensions, 295 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: and because he was an honest cop. But j D 296 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: said that jenkins confidence in him was isolated. He felt 297 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: that others on the force, the press, and even the 298 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: FBI seemed to judge him based on racial stereotypes, which 299 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: had been advanced by pop culture for decades. So yeah, 300 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: I understand black books to the second, and you state 301 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: them so step and fetch it was more or less 302 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: kind of a black face caricature. When we begin to 303 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: talk about caricatures, particularly black caricatures, what we're talking about 304 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: our aspects of minstrel shows. This is not for a candidate. 305 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: This happens to be a cod And so there's a 306 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: longstanding history in the United States dating back to the 307 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: eighteen twenties that deals with minstrel shows and what minstrel 308 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: shows are where these exaggerated characters of who black people 309 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: were supposed to be that were often performed by white ethnics. 310 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: And so they took a fictitious narrative of who black 311 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: people were as dumb and ignorant and promiscuous and and 312 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: you know, self loathing and slower the uptake. They took 313 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: that to be real. And so when we think about 314 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: the embodiment of you know, and ain't Jemima Uncle ben 315 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: uh step and fetch it, the notion was to promote 316 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: a white supremacy that showed that the most unintelligent white 317 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: person was smarter than the smartest black person. This was 318 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: a real conversation around white supremacy. You don't know, that's 319 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: for nothing. They're dumb as white man it's black man. Okay. 320 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: At the end of Southern you'll tell you that. Okay, 321 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: right now, I had to take off from guys who 322 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: couldn't chat max usely, right, my boss. Right, I'm a lawyer. 323 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: I think about it. I knew what happened, I knew 324 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: about the party, I knew about the people. I understood 325 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: the culture of the night in question of the culture 326 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: the people there. So now JD is heading up the 327 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: investigation into the heist that stole the spotlight and the 328 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: headlines from Muhammad Ali's epic comeback fight, and in those 329 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: headlines you start to see a very interesting narrative emerge. 330 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 1: Fight fans are invited by engraved invitation two hundred thousand 331 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: dollar hold up. Police say, hold up conceived in New 332 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: York lottery figure and girlfriends saw it in two hundred 333 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: thousand dollar fight. Party plucked by robbers to Chicken Man, 334 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: says chicken Man. Who was this Chicken Man? I had 335 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: to find out, So I kept digging into more and 336 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: more headlines and saw this name Chicken Man pop up 337 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: over and over again as the prime suspect who organized 338 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: the heist. I asked j D about it, and he 339 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: said that his boss, the FBI, and other policemen were 340 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: pushing this hustler. Street named Chicken Man as the prime suspect, 341 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: but j D wasn't so sure. Chief Chaplains, who at 342 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: that time was super detective, believe ah. He said that 343 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: he had the most relivable meation in the world. Uh, 344 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: that was Chicken Man in his group. That he set 345 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: the whole thing up. That was just a buncha boo. 346 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell my boss that, but I told the 347 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: chief that. So the Chief said, it's your decision, you 348 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: make it, and I did. Chicken Man had been a 349 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: person of interest to the Atlanta p D for years 350 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: for crimes ranging from bootlegging and drugs to running illegal lotteries. 351 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: J d's boss, Chief of Detectives, Charles Chaffin, believed Chicken 352 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: Man had organized the after hours party so he had 353 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: all the side information he needed to also organize the heist. 354 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: But j D didn't believe the heightst originated in Atlanta 355 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: at all. In fact, he thought Chicken Man had nothing 356 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: to do with it. J D would turn out to 357 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: be onto something with that New York connection, and we'll 358 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: explore that in more depths throughout the story. But for now. 359 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: What's important to remember is that Chicken man, whose real 360 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: name was Gordon Williams, was already a big time hustler 361 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: making a lot of money in Atlanta. J D believed 362 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: it just didn't make sense for him to put all 363 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: of that on the line by robbing his own party, 364 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: let alone the types of high level gangsters that could 365 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: have and would have had him killed. J D had 366 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: a moral code. While he was absolutely toughest nails as 367 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: a cop and wanting to put away criminals, he would 368 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: never even consider penning a crime on someone that didn't 369 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: do it, and he resented those above and around him 370 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: who would have done just that. I always called myself 371 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: a cold, better professional. Now I didn't care who you are. 372 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: I love the hated You had nothing to do. Mean 373 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: folks in the law. You know my best friend, and 374 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: I caught your body. No, I locked you up. You 375 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: might waste any man person. I hate it with all 376 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: kinds of passion. If you didn't do anything wrong, I 377 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna bother you, and it bothered me the policeman 378 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: when in fact trying to get this man killed. I 379 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: knew they were gonna kill it, and the police were 380 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: going to be responsible because they kept on bless his 381 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: name out of the police say an FBI. They thought 382 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: he had robbed a black mafia. The figures black hustlers 383 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: in this country, some of the toughest men in this country, 384 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: some of the dead list men in this country, Guys 385 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: who would not hesitate to blow your head off because 386 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: you stepped on that shoe. They would have killed it. 387 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: And according to the New York Times, that's exactly what 388 00:24:53,640 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: they did Wednesday, October, informed sources associate created with the 389 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: police department suggested today that the police believe Williams planned 390 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: the robbery to raise funds to repay a large debt. 391 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: The sources also said that the Atlanta police now believe 392 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: Williams is dead as the result of a contract released 393 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: on him Gangland Terminology for an arrangement of his murder, 394 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: and over the next six months, more bodies would be 395 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: discovered from Atlanta to New York. As I read this 396 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: article on microfilm at the Decatur Library, my mind was 397 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: racing my main source for this story. The lead investigator 398 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: into the heist, Detective J. D. Hudson, didn't believe Chicken 399 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: Man had anything to do with the robbery, but now 400 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: I find out he's dead. So if Chicken Man didn't 401 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: do it, who did? And who killed Chicken Man fighting? 402 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: And it's a joint production from My Heart Radio, Will 403 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: Packer Media and Doghouse Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures. 404 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: Produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer, 405 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobson, and Noel Brown. 406 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: Supervising producer is Taylor Shicoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown 407 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating and Jim Roberts. 408 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: Edited by Matt Owen. Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah 409 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: Kolonnie Prescott. Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players. 410 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB 411 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: News Film and Videotape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University of 412 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and David 413 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: Davis