WEBVTT - Ep 41 Ricin: A Bad Seed 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.519 Hi, I'm erin Welsh, and I'm erin Allman Updike, and. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.240 I'm Matt and dais Yay, I'm back. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:52.560 Our favorite. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:54.560 Oh hey, thanks for having me. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:59.000 And this is a crossover edition of this podcast Will 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:05.680 Kill You and in Defensive Plants. Yeah cool. Well, we're 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.680 very excited to have you, Matt, and we've been looking 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.880 forward to recording another Poison cast for a long time. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.600 I know these are so much fun and it's just 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:17.399 fantastic to be back. So thank you so much. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.600 Yeah, so what are we doing this week? Guys? 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.120 This week we're doing Risin. 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.680 Yes, yeah, one of my all time favorite exotic plants. 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:27.200 We'll call it that. 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.160 Oh, I didn't know it was an exotic plant. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.840 I mean, where do you draw the line for exotic. 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.720 It's a distance metric. I think from like where your 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.759 front doorstep Issa, And to me, this qualifies. 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:39.440 Okay, that's fun. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.200 Well, by the end of this episode, I'm pretty sure 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.440 that everyone out there it's going to be their favorite 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.320 poison Exotic Plant episode, et cetera, et cetera. Right, I agree, 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.400 Can we promise that this early on? 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:53.840 I mean, I feel like this is one of the 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.200 weird areas where I can actually feel confidence. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.840 So sure, yeah, let's make that claim. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:01:59.480 Let me have this. 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.160 Do we have any business before we jump right in? 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:05.600 I have one piece of business. 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.400 That's why I'm asking, okay, go ahead, share with the 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:08.920 class air. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:13.200 And I wanted to make one correction from one of 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:18.400 our more recent episodes, the toxoplasmosis episode. We got an email, 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.800 and this is an important point of clarification that I 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:24.720 wanted to make. Cats are not contagious for their entire 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:29.200 life with toxoplasmosis, So when cats get infected, they only 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.919 shed toxoplasma for like a few weeks of their life 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.200 and then they're immune for life. And I think that 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.120 maybe didn't come across in our episode, so I wanted 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.560 to make that clear, and thank you to the people 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:43.440 who emailed us to clarify that. 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:48.320 Right, All right, okay, Well then unexpected things. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:51.799 Moving back to poisons. 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.800 Yes, what time is it? 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:55.839 It's quarantiney time. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:03.560 It almost got me there. I was like, well, seven 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.239 thirty also means it's quarantini time. Definitely seven thirty somewhere 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.079 it's quarantine time somewhere. Cool. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:10.919 So what are we drinking this week? Aaron? 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.359 We are drinking the ticking time bomb, and it's named 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.360 this for reasons that will become clear later in the episode, 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.560 but for now, let's talk about what's in the ticking 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:22.120 time bomb. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:23.560 Let's talk about it is. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:30.639 Basically, it's hot buttered rum. Yes, so you have some rum, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.840 you make a little mix of like butter and spices, 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:36.960 and then you drop that into the rum. Add some 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.920 hot water. Boom. It's really delicious. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.560 It sounds weird to put butter in your rum, but 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:43.800 it is very tasty. 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.800 It is really well, y'all are blowing my mind. I 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.440 did not know that that was a possibility, a thing 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.280 that you could do. Yeah, but this is a great 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:52.960 winter drink. 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:58.240 It is. Yeah, it's perfect. Okay, So I mean everyone's 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:03.920 got there, Quarantini, and now we just have one last 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.600 piece of business, which is the episode itself. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:09.080 Well, let's do it. 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.120 Okay, we'll take one quick break before we get started. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.080 There are so many reasons that I'm excited for this episode, 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.320 and the very top reason is one that we kind 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.880 of talked about as we were coming up with Quarantini names, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.440 and that's the etymology of Risin. Because I didn't realize it, 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.520 like it took me researching this episode to understand the 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.960 links between Risin and Ricinus, the species or the genus name, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.680 and another creature that is very near and dear to 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.240 my heart. So anyway, we'll get into that in a second. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.800 The second reason that I'm super excited about this episode 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.159 is because the history of Ricin is like pretty long, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.040 like much longer than I thought, and super interesting and 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.800 has a couple of murders along the way, yes, at 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:21.520 least a couple. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.040 Yeah. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.479 And the best final reason is because I feel like 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.000 it's been so long since we have done this. 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:32.800 Yeah, yeah, it has too long. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.520 Especially like I mean, we did aspirin earlier this year, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.359 but we haven't done a poison in a really long time. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.119 Yeah, so true. 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.400 I feel like my plant blindness has really gotten out 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:43.919 of control. 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.679 I mean, I can sense it from here, So let's 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.240 let's get on this. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:48.960 Well. 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.760 I remember during our episode or after our episode on 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.240 Kittrid and we talked about how basically the world is 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.960 crashing around us and everything's going extinct, and you were like, 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.200 plants are at the biggest risk of all and I 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.359 was like, no, my plan blindness. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.200 And I tried to preface that with like all of 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.720 the hand wavy hand motions and goofiness and even like 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:10.839 picturing the accent. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.320 But Sarah didn't. She was like, you guys, come on. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:16.480 Yeah, that was just pure anger. 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.360 And yeah, it's understandable. 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.400 It is true. Plants are leading the extinction charge and 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:23.520 it's it's frightening. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.040 Yeah. Well, so there's our second correction of the episode already. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:29.120 Oh no, and I was the cause? 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:35.719 No, no, no, okay, all right, So basically what I 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.800 want to do for this section of Risin is to 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.400 break it down into two parts, and that hopefully should 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.839 then lead into your discussion about biology erin cool and 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.440 the reason that we're doing this episode. Okay, so we've 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.159 established that the poison ricin, actually we haven't established this. 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:55.320 Get to the establishing part. 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.640 Yeah, the poison Risin comes from the castor bean plant 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:04.400 Riscinus or ricinus communists, which is also what is used 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.440 to produce castor oil, which is just like as far 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.080 as that, before this episode, I was like, oh, it's 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:10.040 that old timey oil. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:12.440 That's it, old timey oil. 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.920 Yeah, And up until this episode, I just thought it 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.240 was an unfortunate overlap in naming. And then I was like, oh, oh, 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:19.120 it's the same. 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.560 Uh huh, yeah. Yeah. So okay, So this section, I'm 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.560 going to talk about the history of the plant itself, 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.840 starting with its uses as a medicine in the form 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.240 of castor oil, and then wrap up with how it 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.360 was used as a poison in the form of ricin. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:35.480 So I think I'll start off where I usually do, 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:42.480 which is in ancient Egypt. Yes, and basically archaeologists have 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.400 found that people have been using this plant for thousands 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.480 of years, so they've found castor bean seeds and ancient 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.520 Egyptian tombs dating back to four thousand BCE. And then 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.360 in ancient times, like in ancient Egypt, in the Middle East, 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.040 it was known by various names, including Palma Christie because 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.280 of the red leaves the plant, which we're supposed to 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.880 look like the hands of Christ. It was known also 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.320 as the African wonder tree because of how fast it 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.400 grew or it grows. Yeah, and so it's this fast 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.800 growing quality that actually landed it and mentioned in the 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.560 Bible as probably the tree that sprung up overnight to 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.040 shade Jonah from the sun. It's a story I'm not 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:27.040 familiar with. But yeah, it's also called the mole plant 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.800 because it has compounds that deter moles. Matt, maybe you'll 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:31.680 tell us more about that. 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.720 Sure, You're like, maybe we'll google this right now. 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.280 And the common name for the plant, the castor being plant, 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.559 actually came about accidentally, so people confused it with another 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:50.000 shrubby plant, vitex agnes castis, but the name stuck. So okay, 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.000 So all that's interesting enough, little bits of trivia that 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.679 hopefully you'll take home with you. But I was so 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.760 excited for the etymology of ricin and the castor being 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.000 plant because of the science name for the plant rissiness 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.680 communists is where we get the word ricin, and Carl 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.120 Linaeus happened to choose this name communists the second part 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.320 because it was found worldwide, and he chose Ristinus because 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.560 ricinus is the Latin word for tick, and Calais thought 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.120 that the seeds were shaped and looked like a tick, 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.640 specifically the European sheep tick or the castor bean tick. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:26.880 I've also seen it called, and I was just like, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.680 oh my god, Exode's your cinis is the tick that 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.880 I literally studied in Europe? 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.760 What oh how fun. 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:38.800 I made a little noise when I read that, and 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.520 I was like noon, and I. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.679 Was looking at pictures of the seeds, the castor being seeds, 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.760 and I was like, oh man, that's it's like not 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.560 you know, it's not far off. It does kind of 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:55.920 look like a slightly engorged exodes rissiness tick. 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.520 It's great if you have someone with them in their garden, 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.240 pick one up, put it in your pocket, and then 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.200 just go like, ah, I think I just found a 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.120 tick on your floor, and pick it up and show 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.240 it to them and just have them lose it for 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.200 a little bit. I've never done that. 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:15.480 Before, Sinister. That's a very specific thing to imagine. That's 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.000 something that you've never done before, Matt. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.000 Imagine what anomology could do for you. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:26.280 Okay, So now that my favorite revelation is over, should 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.959 we just like stop and go right onto biology or 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:29.959 do you want to hear more about it? 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.000 Are we just done here at the end of history? Yeah? 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.679 Yeah, ticks, plants and poison and that's it. 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.000 I mean, never have we had an under ten minute 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:40.480 history section air And let's get. 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:46.160 Real listen, our episodes just get longer and longer. Okay, 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.280 would it even be an episode of this podcast? Will 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.960 kill you? If I didn't mention the Ebbers Ebers Papyrus 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.240 that it would not yep. I think every time we've recorded, 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.760 we've talked about it. Yeah, so just as a refresher. 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.520 The Ebres Papyrus is the ancient Egyptian medical treatise from 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.880 about four thousand years ago, and in the this Ebers 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:12.920 Papyrus Ebers Papyrus, cast or oil makes several appearances. It 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:17.160 was prescribed for various illnesses, mostly skin related. Also, it 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.439 was mentioned as use for oil lamps, as a lotion 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.520 to prevent headliced as a laxative and purgative. So in 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.080 ancient Egypt, people would actually mix the oil with beer 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:34.280 to you know, like get rid of everything, just evacuate. 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.720 Like what they use for before you get a colonoscopene. 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:44.079 Now, yeah, yeah, and so that's why we did hot 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:49.280 buttered brum, to be honest, because oil oil oil in 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:49.720 the drink. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:51.960 A few more of these and it might not be 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:53.640 too far off the symptoms. 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.400 I mean, yeah, it is a ticking time bomb. 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.320 You gotta go. Oh, so thank you for reminding me. 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.880 The ticking part is because rissiness and the link between 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.800 ticks and castor being plant. So that's the first part 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.760 the ticking time bomb part of it. Will I'll get 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:18.440 into that also. Okay, So even though people were ingesting 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.800 the oil, the dangers of the oil were known about 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:26.319 somewhat and so it wasn't used that frequently and some 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.040 cultures didn't use it at all to like, you know, 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.760 ingest and so during this time, the plant didn't spend 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.040 too much time out of these roles, out of these 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.000 like medicinal or useful roles in terms of either topical 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.760 treatment for skin conditions or oil for lamps. And at 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.400 a point like so it became super widespread, but then 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.720 cultivation in much of Europe apparently kind of died out, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.160 except in places like Greece, and then the plant started 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.600 to be harvested from Jamaica or parts of Asia, and 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.520 so that was like sort of from the I don't know, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.720 fifteen hundreds down to the late eighteen hundreds. And then 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.240 what happened was the twentieth century comes around, and then 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.480 we have this huge boom in technology, and particularly in 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.679 the development of cars and other heavy machinery, you know, 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.920 or improvements in trains that needed big engines, and these 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.840 engines needed to be more efficient, so in order to 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.880 be more efficient. These super powerful engines needed a lubricant 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.679 that could be liquid at cold temperatures but then remain 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.000 thick at hot temperatures. And it turns out that if 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.199 you add castor oil to the existing lubricants, it would 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.400 increase the temperature range over which these engines could operate, 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.160 and so it made them much more efficient and you 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.800 could build much more powerful engines. Huh, which is really 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.079 cool without castor oil? Who knows? And so what. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.800 Are like weird resurgence in the popularity of something? 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.760 Yeah, and so in this is really what you know, 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.560 some papers suggest kind of paved the way for airplanes, 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.280 or at least allowed them to develop. And you know, 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.199 in World War One, for instance, if okay, actually do 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.520 me this picture a pilot from World War One. 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.200 I got a red bear thing going on right now. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.240 Yeah, he's got like, you know, a scarf around his 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.800 neck kind of flapping in the wind. He's got that 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.200 little like leather cap and goggles and stuff. Totally that 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.600 wasn't just like fashion. That was function because apparently the 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:33.400 castor oil lubricant would just like spray all over the cockpit, 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.680 and so the silk scarf was to wipe his eyes 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.560 as goggles's face and also like the the windshield or 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.120 whatever you call it in a plane. 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:49.840 I would say probably still call what isn't that interesting? 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:50.320 You know? 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.720 We have a painting of my grandpa in his flight 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.200 outfit and it looks just like that with his hat 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.280 and the goggles and the scarf and everything. 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.120 If only I could ask him, be like, what's it 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:00.560 like to be sprayed with castor or? 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.000 She was not in World War One? 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.600 That's well, they still. 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.160 I think that they had better control over it. 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:12.280 I think they had cockit. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:18.120 Yeah, yes, So then you know this was used heavily 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.920 during World War One and then World War Two. Of course, 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.280 you know, using planes to drop bombs and shoot things 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:30.040 and whatever else increased a ton and so the US 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.840 was like, hey, we're going to run out of castor oil, 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.560 so they were encouraging farmers in the Midwest to grow 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:40.440 castor bean plants. Then they realized is that this pollen 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.000 caused like a huge increase in hay fever and asthma, 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.600 and so people were like getting sick everywhere, and they 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.400 were like, yeah, we got to dial this down. So 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.560 also castor oil was used medicinally during throughout like up 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.560 all through World War Two, and also in ways that 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.960 are a little bit less than medicinal. So even though 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.760 this isn't the poisons, this kind of feels a bit 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:09.520 more like poison section. Let me just explain this. So parents, 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.640 parents would give their kids a small spoonful of castor oil, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.320 sometimes for purging or as a punishment apparently, oh god. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.560 And then in Italy during World War Two, Mussolini and 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.880 his fascist militia would force feed up to a leader 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:31.520 of castor oil, sometimes mixed with gasoline, to people who dissented. 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:39.760 What so that would result in internal burns, extremely painful diarrhea, dehydration, 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:41.920 and death for most people. 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:42.840 Wow. 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.280 So even though castor oil was like a medicine, it wasn't. 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.320 You know. Here's that whole thing about too much of 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:49.920 a good thing. 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:55.040 Yeah, magic, a physician, et cetera. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:56.080 Yeah, exactly. 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:57.280 That's disturbing. 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.160 Yeah. But the good news in terms of well, in 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.040 terms of that, I guess if there is good news 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.360 is that as the medicine advanced throughout the twentieth century, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.840 less harsh purgatives and laxatives were developed, and castor oil 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.000 kind of just like fell by the wayside. But that's 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.080 only one half of this story. Ooh, okay, are you 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.880 ready for the reason for this episode the poison as 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:27.640 part of it. Yeah, yeah, risin. It's very human that 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.719 archaeologists believe that they have detected the use of risin 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:37.280 as a poison thousands and thousands of years before they 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:42.239 could detect medicinal use of the plant. So in a 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.359 cave in South Africa, researchers found a ball of beeswax 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.520 that also had risin in it, And the archaeologists think 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.520 that this bees wax, which is approximately thirty five thousand 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.920 years old, what thirty five thousand years old, was used 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.560 to attach stone points to arrows and and they also 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.919 found in this cave, the same cave a stick that 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.040 was around twenty thousand years old that was thought to 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.560 be used to apply risin to spearheads. 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.159 Yeoh right, human nature. 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.399 If that really was like used for that purpose, that 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:25.399 would be the earliest known use of poison period. Like wow, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.119 it will probably use poison forever. 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.760 But yeah, wow. 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.560 Dude, that's super interesting. 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.680 Where did you say they found this in? What part 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:34.200 of the world? 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:35.280 South Africa? 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.200 Wow, that is so interesting. 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:43.240 Yeah, yep, let's see. Okay, So airlik stumbled upon the 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.440 possibility that you could build up an immunity to risin 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.560 and other toxins by feeding animals tiny doses over time 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.760 and gradually ramping up. He tested it where you could 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.520 get them to be resistant to a dose of risin 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:02.639 that was eight hundred times more than like the deadly dose, 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:04.919 if that makes sense. Yeah, not saying that, yeah, but 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.800 the lethal yes, exactly, the lethodos. 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:08.760 Yeah. 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.240 But this was not a new idea. So in parts 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.760 of India farmers had been doing that to their cattle 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:18.840 for hundreds of years. Nice, but yeah, Erlik was like, oh, 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:24.479 I have this new idea. And other medical uses of risin, 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.640 not just castor oil, were developed as researchers learned more 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.680 about the mechanism of action. So it's been used as 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.240 a tumor suppressant and in other ways that I'm sure 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:39.960 you're gonna talk about Aaron. Oh cool, all right. So, 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.359 just as World War One and World War Two afforded 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.240 castor oil the opportunity to shine as a lubricant for 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.840 plane engines, these wars let risin share a bit in 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:53.120 the glory as well. During World War One, it's not good. 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.479 During World War One, the US looked into using ricin 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.679 as a weapon, a bioweapon, of course, mostly by coating 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:06.720 bullets or shrapnel or like whatever with the toxin. The 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.560 resulting shrapel that's dark. It's very dark. 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:11.440 That's really dark. 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.040 So here's a quote from one of the researchers on 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:18.320 this particular research project. It is not unreasonable to suppose 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.359 that every wound inflicted by a shrapnel bullet coated with 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.119 risin would produce a serious casualty, i e. A casualty 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.200 much more severe than from the bullet without the risin. 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.040 Many wounds which would otherwise be trivial would be fatal. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:37.919 Dang, isn't that I mean, from knowing the plant, not surprising. 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:43.600 But that is dark, right, Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, it's 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:49.160 very dark. Okay, so believe it or not. This weaponization 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.800 of risin was actually frowned upon and was found to 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.479 be against international laws and could only be used. It 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:58.679 was ruled that it could only be used if the 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.280 Germans used some weapons first, so it could only be 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:03.359 using retaliation. 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.080 Just kind of messed up, but okay, sure, so. 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:09.440 Of course they could keep developing. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.000 That's what it means is they can keep doing research 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:13.159 on it just your case. 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:22.000 And this also didn't stop the US from investigating how 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:27.480 risin could be aerosolized because aerosolization apparently wasn't viewed as 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.960 a poison like that wasn't viewed as a poisoning event. Understand. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:39.240 Yeah, I'm sorry. We can aerosolize this and spray it 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.960 all over a whole city of people, but don't worry. 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:43.600 That's not poisoning them. 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:44.320 That's magical. 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:50.520 I don't yeah, I'm not sure what was happening. Wow. Yeah. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.480 In any case, Fortunately, rice and dust wasn't found to 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:58.119 be an effective or efficient aerosolized weapon because breathing it 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.200 in wasn't as toxic as ingesting it or having it injected, 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.840 and so efforts to develop it were abandoned. Also, it 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.040 would be really difficult to like yet the amount that 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.439 you needed and like disperse it over an area like 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:16.400 it's just yeah. So anyway, fortunately, but then in World 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.159 War Two, the word had gotten out about ricin because 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:23.520 countries everywhere were trying to develop it as a weapon, 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.679 and people got like pretty far with this, especially in 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:29.720 the US, where they were able to make this like 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.719 super concentrated deadly powder that they called agent w oh, 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:39.199 but yeah, why w I can't remember. I think I 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:44.280 saw it somewhere and I forgot. I'm sorry I saw it. 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.400 I thought, I think interest But now it's gone. Now 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.600 it's way out of my head. But yeah, so the 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:54.879 agent W was like way, it was like way too 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.240 much work. So they were like, now we're not doing this. 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:00.560 There are way easier, you know, toxic things that we 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:00.960 can make. 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:03.760 Oh totally yeah, yeah, low hanging fruit. 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:06.840 Yeah. Well, and then also the other thing is at 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:08.639 the time, and I don't know about now, but at 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:12.919 the time, at least, there was no remedy for still true. 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:17.119 Oh okay, yeah, for risin. There you go. But okay, So, 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:21.320 biological warfare was banned in nineteen seventy in the US, 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:24.439