Speaker 1: Hey, folks.
Speaker 2: In this episode, Matt James announced his breakup with Rachel
Speaker 2: Kirconnell in a forty nine word Instagram post. She has
Speaker 2: now responded and with a whole lot more than forty
Speaker 2: nine words and with that, welcome to Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2: More than forty nine words robes And I was not
Speaker 2: about to count how many she actually said, because she
Speaker 2: did this. Her response was in a one and a
Speaker 2: half hour interview.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it took a while to get through and it
Speaker 3: was hard to listen to in a lot of moments,
Speaker 3: but yes, Rachel Kirkconnell decided to go to the Call
Speaker 3: Her Daddy podcast. She spoke at length about the breakup
Speaker 3: with Matt, and there were definitely some surprises in there.
Speaker 3: There were some shockers, some head scratchers, and there is
Speaker 3: a lot in there that anyone who is in a
Speaker 3: relationship or who has ever been in a relationship, and
Speaker 3: especially if that relationship ended. Yeah, you can relate to
Speaker 3: a lot of the things that she talks about, and
Speaker 3: we're going to get into all of it, but we
Speaker 3: wanted to go through a list of some of the
Speaker 3: things we learned and what specifically stood out to us.
Speaker 2: Yes, So the headlines here. Yes, she confirmed they broke
Speaker 2: up while on a trip to Japan together and he
Speaker 2: actually broke up with her. She says the morning she
Speaker 2: was slated to lee, they weren't taking the same flight
Speaker 2: back she was leaving that morning, broke up and then
Speaker 2: sent her on her way to the airport. Is how
Speaker 2: she describes it. Also, according to Rachel, everything had been
Speaker 2: fined the day before the breakup. She says he did
Speaker 2: not give her heads up before he announced they're split
Speaker 2: on social media.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she talked about how there wasn't some big argument
Speaker 3: or some big fight. They just she had been grumpy
Speaker 3: and perhaps he was two and they just were irritated
Speaker 3: with each other. That's kind of what she had said.
Speaker 3: But she said he did not give her a heads
Speaker 3: up when she left for the airport. She had no
Speaker 3: idea that he was going to make any kind of
Speaker 3: an announcement on social media about her split. And she
Speaker 3: said break up post that he posted that we all
Speaker 3: saw about six am on January sixteenth. She said that
Speaker 3: that came just about two hours after he broke up
Speaker 3: with her, And so she says she was already blindsided.
Speaker 3: She was already shocked and then was actually seated on
Speaker 3: the plane when she was alerted to the social media post.
Speaker 2: She also said he actually apologized later for the post.
Speaker 2: Another headline, there's nothing to the rumors of infidelity. Also,
Speaker 2: she does not think there is any chance they'll get
Speaker 2: back together. There was just a few of the headlines. Again,
Speaker 2: this was an hour and thirty minute plus interviews, so
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff jumped out. No, most people won't
Speaker 2: probably take the time to listen. You'll read a lot
Speaker 2: of headlines, So we're trying to get through some of
Speaker 2: those for you with a little more perspective than a
Speaker 2: lot of what we've already seen out there. And look,
Speaker 2: the initial reaction rose. These two have been together for
Speaker 2: four plus years, got together on The Bachelor back in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. During that season, he was the first
Speaker 2: black bachelor. They had controversy and whatnot in their season.
Speaker 2: But still this came as a shocker to everybody that
Speaker 2: they broke up. Seems like it came to it as
Speaker 2: a shock to her too, But I was also shocked
Speaker 2: that she came out did an hour and a half interview.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a lot of things that are puzzling,
Speaker 3: and look, it's one of those things where they started
Speaker 3: out their relationship in a very public way on a
Speaker 3: reality show, and so they've been a public couple the
Speaker 3: entire time, and a big part of what Matt does
Speaker 3: for a living he's a food influencer, is going places
Speaker 3: with Rachel and showing these fun, cute videos of them
Speaker 3: having a blast at dinner. In fact, that was the
Speaker 3: other thing that was puzzling to so many people. He
Speaker 3: had posted twelve hours earlier before the breakup post them
Speaker 3: having fun in London, which is where they were right
Speaker 3: before they went to Tokyo and eating pizza and laughing
Speaker 3: and joking. So everything seemed fine. So we were all
Speaker 3: blind sided. And then Rachel now says that she was too,
Speaker 3: And I think that was one of the big headlines
Speaker 3: because she claims she didn't see it coming. She claims
Speaker 3: he had asked her to start looking at rings. She
Speaker 3: thought they were headed to marriage and having babies and
Speaker 3: picking out a wedding dress. So she very much, and
Speaker 3: you could see and hear in her voice there was
Speaker 3: real genuine emotion and you can tell she's she's still
Speaker 3: in shock.
Speaker 2: It's possible he's in shock as well, because she said
Speaker 2: it so herself during this interview that she does not
Speaker 2: believe he planned to break up with her either. She
Speaker 2: does not believe if we go through with the breakup
Speaker 2: details here and you were talking about they were had
Speaker 2: been in London, decided to fly to Tokyo, decided to
Speaker 2: go to Japan, they said, had travel vouchers say hey,
Speaker 2: we need to use these before the end of the year.
Speaker 2: That's really how this all came about. So they're hanging
Speaker 2: out there and look, she said, they've been together for
Speaker 2: three weeks pretty much, traveling and people start to get
Speaker 2: on your nerves.
Speaker 1: We don't have that issue, thank.
Speaker 3: God, thank god, because we're together every single moment of
Speaker 3: every single day.
Speaker 1: So we have problems. That ain't one of them.
Speaker 2: But she said, look, we were on edge a little bit.
Speaker 2: So they're hanging out and there's one night there in
Speaker 2: that started all. This is the night before the breakup,
Speaker 2: she claimed that.
Speaker 3: She and she says, it's on our period, it's on
Speaker 3: my period.
Speaker 1: I was having a rough few hours. I was emotional.
Speaker 2: All these things were going I was trying to she
Speaker 2: felt the pressure of finding a right restaurant. All has happened.
Speaker 2: They go and sure enow, she says, she starts crying
Speaker 2: at dinner. Now, any guy, any anybody out there who
Speaker 2: has been around enough women in your life, sometimes you
Speaker 2: go to a dinner and tears start falling.
Speaker 1: You actually don't know why.
Speaker 3: And so many women can relate because we have all
Speaker 3: of these emotions that we are embarrassed or maybe don't
Speaker 3: want to share because we know maybe they are irrational
Speaker 3: because we are on our periods or whatever. But sometimes
Speaker 3: you can't help how you feel and you're trying not
Speaker 3: to react in a certain way. So there was a
Speaker 3: lot of silence at the dinner, she said, they didn't
Speaker 3: really speak well.
Speaker 2: As crazy as that sound, we were talking about a
Speaker 2: breakup of a relationship We've watched for four years. You
Speaker 2: and I have watched up close, because that is someone
Speaker 2: I can send her a close friend of mine. He
Speaker 2: is a guy, and this is a relationship that has
Speaker 2: now ended because because as I hear it, it's a
Speaker 2: couple of tears. She said, it was one or two,
Speaker 2: That's how she described it. It's set off a whole
Speaker 2: chain of events that I think a lot of men
Speaker 2: and women can relate to in that moment, to where
Speaker 2: we as as a man looking you think, what's wrong.
Speaker 2: You think what did I do? You think what can
Speaker 2: I help? And then you hear some of the reasons
Speaker 2: of the logic and the explanation from a woman which
Speaker 2: is oftentimes she can't explain herself, and the reaction from
Speaker 2: a guy, which is not a right one, like what
Speaker 2: the fuck?
Speaker 3: And do I want to spend my life with someone
Speaker 3: who was emotional like this?
Speaker 1: Don't want to go that far?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, but you look and you think, like, what
Speaker 2: the is wrong? We can't reason through that? And she
Speaker 2: says that set off a whole chain of events that
Speaker 2: has us talking about this.
Speaker 3: Now. Yeah, they did eventually talk when they got back
Speaker 3: to the hotel room, and you know, there had always
Speaker 3: been and there is, and there was this public pressure
Speaker 3: for them to get engaged. He talked about it, and
Speaker 3: he was dragging his feet about it. And I think
Speaker 3: when you have a conversation or you have maybe even
Speaker 3: a motion that feels uncomfortable, and it's maybe not the
Speaker 3: first time this has happened. They started talking about where
Speaker 3: they were headed and what they were doing, and she
Speaker 3: claims he said to her, you know, I'm not sure
Speaker 3: that I'm ready to get married, and I don't want
Speaker 3: you to waste any more time with me. I can't
Speaker 3: give you what you want. I'm not sure you're the
Speaker 3: person I want to have as my wife.
Speaker 2: He said all this to her. After going to bed
Speaker 2: that night, she said everything was fine. She actually said
Speaker 2: we were chill, we were okay. Yes, we didn't talk
Speaker 2: a lot, but she went to bed that night not
Speaker 2: thinking her relationship was on the rocks, and sure enough
Speaker 2: the next morning, as you described now, isn't that what
Speaker 2: everybody wants to hear? I guess what we're talking about now.
Speaker 2: We haven't gotten into the point that she's so upset
Speaker 2: with Matt yet. I think some on the outside and
Speaker 2: I wrote down when you said it dragging his feet.
Speaker 2: We're going to get back to that in a second.
Speaker 2: But her problem with him is not necessarily that he
Speaker 2: was dragging his feet quote unquote, but what happened when
Speaker 2: he put out a post that didn't give her a
Speaker 2: heads up about what was coming that the breakup. Announcing
Speaker 2: the breakup was not something they decided to do together,
Speaker 2: and she's taking issue with that. If a guy says
Speaker 2: to you, hey, I'm sorry, I don't want to waste
Speaker 2: any more of your time, and I think we need
Speaker 2: to break up. I have on more than one occasion
Speaker 2: done that exact same thing. And do they someone appreciated, Yes,
Speaker 2: you want to know sooner than later. But the criticism
Speaker 2: you've seem more publicly than I have. But the criticism
Speaker 2: there is some criticism for that particular thing, is there not?
Speaker 3: Oh, there's a huge amount of criticism over that, because
Speaker 3: you know, give it a beat. And I really and
Speaker 3: he has apologized for it to only take two hours.
Speaker 3: And also to know she was getting on a plane
Speaker 3: and she said, this is a problem she's had and
Speaker 3: Matt knew about it. For whatever reason, her iPhone doesn't
Speaker 3: connect with plane WiFi, so maybe he thought she had
Speaker 3: already gotten She had gotten on the plane, but she
Speaker 3: got a heads up from a friend who texted her
Speaker 3: and said basically referring to his post. And Rachel was like,
Speaker 3: what do you How does anyone know that we just
Speaker 3: broke up? How would my friend know that we just
Speaker 3: broke up? And so right as her plane was taxiing,
Speaker 3: she sees the post and then for twelve hours she
Speaker 3: had no way to communicate with anyone or to see
Speaker 3: what was happening. And that had to be really awful.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are putting themselves in
Speaker 3: her shoes and imagining how awful that is. Maybe Matt
Speaker 3: didn't know that would have happened, didn't realize, But to
Speaker 3: do that without giving her a text a heads up,
Speaker 3: Hey do you mind if I post this? Or I
Speaker 3: really want this to be on the record at this point,
Speaker 3: I want to be transparent, just to at least have
Speaker 3: let her know what was happening, I think, to not
Speaker 3: tell her to do it, and for her not to
Speaker 3: have the time to tell her friends, her family, let
Speaker 3: alone process it. I get why people are upset for
Speaker 3: her about that.
Speaker 2: She said it was two to three hours after she
Speaker 2: found out that she the man that she planned to
Speaker 2: marry and have kids with. She just found out that
Speaker 2: was over, and then the world knew it before she
Speaker 2: could process it.
Speaker 1: That's that's tough.
Speaker 3: That's tough, and I think that this may This is
Speaker 3: where my head goes to. You're thinking, you know, yes,
Speaker 3: you broke up, and people break up and get back together.
Speaker 3: People say things sometimes when they're upset, tired, they've been traveling,
Speaker 3: they were on each other's nerves, and then twenty four
Speaker 3: hours later think, you know what, actually you know, can
Speaker 3: we talk more about this? It just he put a
Speaker 3: finality to it that maybe she needed more time to
Speaker 3: get to You know, people say things in the heat
Speaker 3: of the moment. People say things, and then you decide
Speaker 3: a day later, two days later, a week later, that
Speaker 3: maybe that isn't what you want. And I'm not saying
Speaker 3: that would have been the case, but I think that
Speaker 3: also is a part of it that really cemented the breakup.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, and I'll say here, I haven't
Speaker 2: had a chance to talk to Matt yet. I understand where,
Speaker 2: maybe understand more than most where Matt might be when
Speaker 2: it comes to dealing with this publicly and why he
Speaker 2: might be a little quiet, might be in hiding and
Speaker 2: doesn't want to say a whole lot. But I can
Speaker 2: only imagine what he's going through now. Nobody wants to
Speaker 2: hear or think about his side of the story and
Speaker 2: what he may have been going through. But it's a
Speaker 2: matter I can't imagine. We know this guy pretty well
Speaker 2: where his head was to do it so quickly. According
Speaker 2: to her, they have talked since he did apologize and
Speaker 2: say he didn't handle that well. Okay, that makes sense,
Speaker 2: but what at the same time, we know this is
Speaker 2: a woman he planned to marry. This is a woman
Speaker 2: he saw himself having kids with. This is a woman
Speaker 2: that he went through a public trauma with and fighting
Speaker 2: for their relationship. Remember they broke up right after The
Speaker 2: Bachelor because of all that back and forth with her
Speaker 2: in the controversy. So to see them overcome and be together,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people were rooting for them.
Speaker 2: But she said in that conversation when they decided they
Speaker 2: they decided they were going to go their separate ways.
Speaker 2: It wasn't just him saying no, but she acknowledged a well,
Speaker 2: and they decided according to her, but it was a
Speaker 2: matter of go ahead.
Speaker 3: You think she she didn't want this breakup. She wanted
Speaker 3: to marry him.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: I think when she heard him say you're not the
Speaker 3: person who I think I want as my wife, then
Speaker 3: she basically just acquiesced and said, Okay, I mean, what
Speaker 3: else do you say? So I don't feel like they
Speaker 3: broke up together or that they decided together he broke
Speaker 3: up with her and she accepted it.
Speaker 1: See I yes, to.
Speaker 2: Your point in what you're saying, I say he wanted
Speaker 2: to marry her too. He wanted to marry this woman.
Speaker 2: Somebody comes to realization, how many times have you a
Speaker 2: relationship or everybody has You've ended a relationship with somebody
Speaker 2: then you didn't want it to end, but you knew
Speaker 2: it needed to, or you knew it was the right
Speaker 2: thing to do.
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: And again, this will come off as just defending Matt,
Speaker 2: and I will defend Matt. But I can defend Matt
Speaker 2: without shitting on Rachel. I can defend him and have
Speaker 2: my heart go out to him without taking any way
Speaker 2: anything away from her experience. And if Matt was in
Speaker 2: front of me right now, I said, damn, bro, what
Speaker 2: were you thinking with that post?
Speaker 1: Why did you give it a beat? And he might
Speaker 1: have an answer. I'm like, Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2: That was a tough thing to do. So for him
Speaker 2: to come to a realization that hey, I don't want
Speaker 2: to waste any more of your time and I'm not
Speaker 2: going to be able to go through with this, she
Speaker 2: where's the quote here? He said that maybe one day
Speaker 2: he would get there, but he doesn't feel ready now.
Speaker 2: And I told him, well, after four years, you should
Speaker 2: know or you should feel ready, and if you don't,
Speaker 2: that's a good thing. We probably should be together. If
Speaker 2: you don't feel like that after four years, And let
Speaker 2: me get that right, she said, we probably shouldn't be
Speaker 2: together if you don't feel like that after four years,
Speaker 2: because you know me better than anyone. I know you
Speaker 2: better than anyone, so you should know by now if
Speaker 2: you see this for the long haul or not. To
Speaker 2: your point, yes, she didn't say, hey, we need to
Speaker 2: break up, but after hearing him she said, yep, I
Speaker 2: can't be with you anymore. After hearing him say that,
Speaker 2: she seems to understand. But yes, to your part, he initiated,
Speaker 2: and we're always looking for somebody to hold responsible in
Speaker 2: these things, right, somebody's got to be somebody's fault, so
Speaker 2: it has to be Matt's fault. And I think she
Speaker 2: did a lot to try to take some heat off
Speaker 2: of him.
Speaker 1: At the end of this.
Speaker 3: Interview, she loves him and I think he loves her,
Speaker 3: and that doesn't mean that you're meant to be together,
Speaker 3: which is really hard to accept sometimes. But I agree
Speaker 3: with you that I think one of the saddest things
Speaker 3: about any kind of public breakup, but will specifically talk
Speaker 3: about this one, is that everyone wants to take sides,
Speaker 3: and isn't that always the problem. Can we not feel
Speaker 3: for them both, send love to them both, and acknowledge
Speaker 3: that they are both hurting and we're both trying to
Speaker 3: follow their hearts and protect the others. And yeah, they
Speaker 3: both made mistakes. They both made mistakes. He shouldn't have
Speaker 3: posted that without discussing it with her first. I firmly
Speaker 3: believe that, and she probably shouldn't have gone on a
Speaker 3: podcast giving every detail. But I think he was trying
Speaker 3: to be transparent and she was trying to set the
Speaker 3: record straight. So I think they might have both had
Speaker 3: good intentions, but now it's gotten messy.
Speaker 2: She spoke about this idea that he did feel pressure.
Speaker 2: He felt She said there was a weight on him
Speaker 2: about the relationship, and I again only our opinions here
Speaker 2: that that had to play into him. He almost feels
Speaker 2: like there is a responsibility to the public as well
Speaker 2: to let people.
Speaker 1: Into your lives so much.
Speaker 2: We do it so often, we live these public lives,
Speaker 2: so then when something happens in your personal life, well
Speaker 2: how many times we criticize. I'm like, damn, dude, we
Speaker 2: didn't need to know that it's this thing that I
Speaker 2: have to feed the public. They need to know they've
Speaker 2: been on an almost obligation, like you.
Speaker 1: Guys have supported me.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I gotta let you know, almost like
Speaker 2: family members. I get but two to three hours hearing
Speaker 2: her describe just not getting the heads up matt oh brother,
Speaker 2: that was a that was a tough one. I need
Speaker 2: to hear from him what he was thinking. And I'm
Speaker 2: not even after I hear it, I might understand it
Speaker 2: a little better. It's hard to see why not giving
Speaker 2: the heads up, say hey, Rachel, I'm gonna do this.
Speaker 2: You don't have a choice in me posting it, but
Speaker 2: I just want to give you a heads up.
Speaker 1: Even that would have been better.
Speaker 3: That would have been better because she could have at
Speaker 3: least told her family, hey, you're about to see something break,
Speaker 3: and I'll tell you when I'm getting on a plane.
Speaker 3: Is she just she was stuck. She had she had
Speaker 3: no one to turn to, no one to lean on,
Speaker 3: and that's tough for that. I cannot imagine what that
Speaker 3: plan ride was like for her. But I want to
Speaker 3: say this, when you're a public couple, you're damned if
Speaker 3: you do and you're damned if you don't. Because we
Speaker 3: learned that not speaking about what's going on can be
Speaker 3: just as messy, if not more messy. But yes, it'd
Speaker 3: be great if Matt and Rachel could have had a strategy.
Speaker 3: But my god, it's personal, it's emotional, it is private,
Speaker 3: and it's the last thing you want to do is
Speaker 3: discuss how to deal with your breakup publicly when you're
Speaker 3: still in shock, you're in mourning, you're emotional. There's so
Speaker 3: much pain, there's so much loss.
Speaker 2: But the other side of that is I gave you
Speaker 2: everything when things were great, right, you feed me, You've
Speaker 2: taught me to come into your life. When you got
Speaker 2: this plan, you're going here, I'm on this trip, But
Speaker 2: now you don't. I mean, it goes both ways. What
Speaker 2: level of privacy do you you should you be afforded
Speaker 2: when you're the very one out there making sure your
Speaker 2: life is not that bride by putting it out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do not know. You know we're trying to
Speaker 1: find that balance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we are. And I think you have to insulate
Speaker 3: yourself from the comments and just do what you feel
Speaker 3: is right. And maybe you make a bad call and
Speaker 3: you apologize for it, but this is between Matt and
Speaker 3: Rachel and I Look, I was looking at some of
Speaker 3: the comments and I won't read any of the negative ones,
Speaker 3: but some of people were actually really insightful. There was
Speaker 3: one comment where someone said breaking up before social media
Speaker 3: was so much easier, and I agree, but I liked
Speaker 3: this one. You guys get so worked up over people
Speaker 3: you see on TV that have the same relationship problems
Speaker 3: that you do too, and that is the truth. And
Speaker 3: I think people almost are able to watch other people's
Speaker 3: problems and speculate about their issues, and that way they
Speaker 3: don't have to think about their own. And I do
Speaker 3: think we all need to ask ourselves that when we
Speaker 3: get two into the weeds pointing fingers, I think we
Speaker 3: can if you look at this and you read this
Speaker 3: and your heart goes out to both of them and
Speaker 3: you just send them love, that's the way to react.
Speaker 3: Because I just don't think that there are there isn't
Speaker 3: a bad guy and a good girl in this. Everyone
Speaker 3: has responsibility for the relationship.
Speaker 1: And everybody lost, everybody lost los.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's so true. And look, I also
Speaker 3: want to point this out. When you're in a relationship,
Speaker 3: there is always pressure from family and friends right to
Speaker 3: stay together, to be together, to be great together. There's
Speaker 3: also personal pressure, like you want to do right for
Speaker 3: yourself and for the person your partner. But when you
Speaker 3: add the pressure from the public, I think it's incredibly
Speaker 3: brave to admit, as Matt did to Rachel privately initially,
Speaker 3: that you're not ready for marriage with someone. That's so
Speaker 3: hard to say out loud, And the worst thing I
Speaker 3: think he could have done would be to have proposed
Speaker 3: and to have gone into a marriage where he was
Speaker 3: doubting significantly whether or not it was the right thing
Speaker 3: to do. I've certainly accepted proposals that I shouldn't have
Speaker 3: in hindsight, and when you have doubt, and if it's
Speaker 3: significant enough, it takes a lot of courage to say
Speaker 3: it out loud.
Speaker 1: But where does it come from? The idea you used it?
Speaker 2: And I think in listening to her, and she was
Speaker 2: talking to a much different, a very specific audience, I
Speaker 2: should say that relates to and understands where she's coming from.
Speaker 2: And almost you could almost hear women going amen or
Speaker 2: hell yeah or me too as they were having their discussion.
Speaker 2: But where does it come from? To where the dragging
Speaker 2: the feet right? How many couples dealing with this right now? Hey,
Speaker 2: we've been together for a year, two years, three years
Speaker 2: like when I think, certainly after what year and a half?
Speaker 1: Two years top?
Speaker 2: So you get the guy does before pressure comes.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think that is an absolute time between one
Speaker 3: year and two years. Yes, people, most people, a lot
Speaker 3: of women will say not everybody, Hey, where are we going?
Speaker 3: Where are we heading? What answer is I.
Speaker 1: Don't know yet? What do you do? Right?
Speaker 2: Then the guy gets accused of dragging your feet or
Speaker 2: dragging her along?
Speaker 1: But what if you don't know?
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you This is something that I
Speaker 2: don't know if it'll ever get resolved between men and women.
Speaker 2: What do you what if you don't know? How much
Speaker 2: time do you give a guy? And then how much
Speaker 2: time should a guy get or how much time should
Speaker 2: he spend with a woman.
Speaker 3: I think it's personal and it's what you're willing to
Speaker 3: accept as a woman. And I do think this if
Speaker 3: you know you want to get married, and you know
Speaker 3: your biological clock is ticking, which women do deal with
Speaker 3: those feelings and that pressure as well. If you know
Speaker 3: you want all of that and the guy you're with
Speaker 3: isn't sure, you have to decide what's best. You can't
Speaker 3: blame the guy, you know. I appreciate I would appreciate
Speaker 3: someone saying I'm not sure, because then that gives me,
Speaker 3: the woman, the opportunity to say I want somebody who is.
Speaker 3: And that's okay too. And I think if you know
Speaker 3: you want to be married, and you know you're on
Speaker 3: a timeline for kids, you have a right to say
Speaker 3: this isn't enough for me and find someone else. But
Speaker 3: you have to take responsibility for that being your decision
Speaker 3: as well. It's not just Matth's decision. It was Rachel's
Speaker 3: decision to stay, and she if she wasn't getting what
Speaker 3: she needed out of the relationship, she had every right
Speaker 3: to say I love you, but I need to find
Speaker 3: someone who's ready for marriage.
Speaker 2: Jay's she has every right to say, but in the
Speaker 2: podcast she said it was on his timeline, and I think,
Speaker 2: don't she chose that though?
Speaker 1: Okay, but women feel like that.
Speaker 2: It's not a choice of theirs. I love you, I
Speaker 2: want to be with you, I want to marry you.
Speaker 2: I have now been a You put me in a
Speaker 2: position to fall in love with you. You put me
Speaker 2: in a position to want want marriage, and we've been
Speaker 2: talking about those things. But now it's year three, so
Speaker 2: now the onus seems like it's the man's responsibility. Now
Speaker 2: you need to make a move, because you have now
Speaker 2: given me an impression for a year, two years that things.
Speaker 1: Were going well.
Speaker 2: This is what has happened with them to where I'm
Speaker 2: almost looking for a way to say it's somebody's fault,
Speaker 2: it's the man or the woman's. But in a situation
Speaker 2: like this, I really don't know what to do or
Speaker 2: what is the right thing to do. That ends up
Speaker 2: in a conclusion that everybody says, yeah, it's not really
Speaker 2: anybody's fault, because everything else right now seems to say, well,
Speaker 2: it was his fault for dragging her along that long,
Speaker 2: or hey, no, she was her responsibility too.
Speaker 3: You know, I want to make clear I'm not pointing
Speaker 3: the finger at anyone. I just think it's it is.
Speaker 3: It's okay, hay to not know, and it's okay to
Speaker 3: say I want somebody who does. And it's hard. That
Speaker 3: is so easy to say and so hard to actually execute.
Speaker 3: To actually it takes courage from either side to be
Speaker 3: able to say this isn't enough for me, or this
Speaker 3: isn't what I want. And I do think as a
Speaker 3: as a woman, you can tell yourself you might even
Speaker 3: give yourself a deadline if he and look, the onus
Speaker 3: is on the guy, because yes, we do usually expect
Speaker 3: a man to propose. That is traditionally what happens. And
Speaker 3: sure she could have proposed to him. It sounds like
Speaker 3: he probably. I don't know what he would have said,
Speaker 3: but if a man is uncomfortable or not ready to propose,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to. I personally wouldn't want to walk
Speaker 3: into a marriage with someone who wasn't sure. I don't
Speaker 3: think anybody wants to walk down the aisle with somebody
Speaker 3: who isn't sure. And if you say it out loud,
Speaker 3: that does take courage, I know.
Speaker 2: Trying to address the idea that he should have said
Speaker 2: it sooner, I'm trying to address this, this mindset that
Speaker 2: he's just dragging her along.
Speaker 3: The issue is he did publicly say, and she said
Speaker 3: he said it privately as well, that he wanted to
Speaker 3: marry her. Yep, that he wanted to get engaged. So
Speaker 3: where's the disconnect from saying that and then not doing it.
Speaker 3: And she even said he said everything perfectly, but his
Speaker 3: actions did not agree with his words.
Speaker 2: Okay, but the action, the only action she's describing, really
Speaker 2: is the proposal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, haven't.
Speaker 2: Haven't We all been in a position at some point
Speaker 2: where we wanted to marry somebody and then we got
Speaker 2: some new information said, actually, no, I don't want to
Speaker 2: marry you, or you even marry somebody, and find actually,
Speaker 2: this is not what I should have done. Matt very much,
Speaker 2: I don't. Obviously he wasn't fooling her, trying to trick her.
Speaker 2: I had plenty of conversations with this dude. Now that
Speaker 2: she said it, I feel more comfortable saying it. He's
Speaker 2: talked about marrying this woman. He's talked about them having kids,
Speaker 2: where are they gonna live, talked about it plenty privately,
Speaker 2: had this conversation tons of times with this dude.
Speaker 1: Something changed, something changed along the way.
Speaker 2: And her argument is she didn't know about it. She did,
Speaker 2: but she didn't even think he knew the breakup was
Speaker 2: gonna come. Certainly some of these things have been in
Speaker 2: his mind. And talk about you always looking at the
Speaker 2: person you've been in with for a relationship. We've been
Speaker 2: together two plus, so we're coming up on three years now.
Speaker 1: I assure you I've had plenty.
Speaker 2: Of thoughts about that being my wife and that being
Speaker 2: an issue in two years or five?
Speaker 1: Is this going to be problem?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody does that. He's done that, she did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody has ugly sides to them. Everybody has things
Speaker 3: and ways that we react to things that aren't We
Speaker 3: aren't at our best. And the question is you have
Speaker 3: you ask yourself? Yes, no matter who you're with, you're
Speaker 3: gonna have issues with people. People aren't going to do
Speaker 3: and say and think and behave the way you'd like
Speaker 3: them to. So how much of that can you tolerate?
Speaker 3: And can you live your life with someone when you
Speaker 3: start to see some of the things that aren't attractive,
Speaker 3: you know, can can you live with that? And it
Speaker 3: sounded like him seeing her get emotional and withdrawn was
Speaker 3: a trigger and something that maybe he had seen multiple
Speaker 3: times I don't know, and that it just it just
Speaker 3: flashed in front of him. Maybe he had an epiphany,
Speaker 3: maybe he had an AHA moment. Maybe there was just
Speaker 3: clarity saying, you know what, I don't want more nights
Speaker 3: like that. I don't want days like that. I don't
Speaker 3: want that. I don't you know. We can't get in
Speaker 3: his head, but you're right, something had to have changed,
Speaker 3: something had to have clicked, and maybe spending three weeks
Speaker 3: non stop with someone, you know, maybe everyone should do that.
Speaker 3: Spend three weeks with someone twenty four hours a day,
Speaker 3: and you might have clarity that you didn't have before.
Speaker 2: Well, we're the best couple ever, then apparently.
Speaker 3: We should be. We should go to the go to
Speaker 3: the courthouse. Right now, we have withstood that test, but
Speaker 3: it's a test a lot of people don't go through.
Speaker 3: And look, I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: a year from now, six months from now, five years
Speaker 3: from now, there will be clarity. And I also think
Speaker 3: it's I try to avoid this in my own life,
Speaker 3: and I hope that people and refrain from or from
Speaker 3: Rachel thinking this or Matt thinking that they wasted time. Right,
Speaker 3: I've seen that online everywhere. It's not a waste of
Speaker 3: time to learn what it's like to love someone, to
Speaker 3: accept someone, to love yourself, to accept yourself and realize
Speaker 3: what works and what doesn't like. They learned so much
Speaker 3: and about each other and about themselves, and that will
Speaker 3: set them up for the next relationship.
Speaker 2: These are very young people.
Speaker 3: They're young, no, and they are really young. But again,
Speaker 3: I know what Rachel's thinking. When I was her age
Speaker 3: at twenty eight. I was thinking to myself, my god,
Speaker 3: I've got five years to have a baby, or it's
Speaker 3: gonna be hard, or I'm gonna have to get medical intervention,
Speaker 3: or I'm gonna have so her mind, Matt doesn't. Men
Speaker 3: don't have to worry about that in the same way
Speaker 3: that women do. And so you know, oh, you're putting
Speaker 3: pressure on me, Well, there's real if you know you
Speaker 3: want kids, there is real pressure there. And she had
Speaker 3: every right. I mean, I don't think he said she didn't,
Speaker 3: but I understand, like, what is going what else needs
Speaker 3: to happen? What else do you need to know? What
Speaker 3: else do you need to see to say you want
Speaker 3: to marry me or not, or not just to say
Speaker 3: it sorry, but to actually propose to me and walk
Speaker 3: down the aisle.
Speaker 2: And perhaps that question should be I mean, should we
Speaker 2: all be asking that question every six months after marrying,
Speaker 2: after dating.
Speaker 3: Somebody, like hopefully not after marrying.
Speaker 2: Do you want this to like check in at a year,
Speaker 2: a year and a half, two, are we still on
Speaker 2: the same page and moving forward? Maybe that's worth it,
Speaker 2: But it's just that matter of whether's that sweet spot
Speaker 2: of Okay, it's been this long, you should know by
Speaker 2: now that I know it's difference for different people, but
Speaker 2: we there's a general feeling that Okay, it's been two years,
Speaker 2: like should I get off the pop I think goes comes.
Speaker 3: Especially when you're that age. We're different, we're older, we're
Speaker 3: not rushing to go have babies together.
Speaker 2: And to some though, I feel it daily, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to have good drinks next time. I'm kidding, I
Speaker 2: am kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 3: But but so, but when you're younger, there is more
Speaker 3: pressure because there is a timeline and there you know
Speaker 3: when we when you get older, there's less of a timeline.
Speaker 3: So I get it, and I do think that when
Speaker 3: you're that age, there is a big question mark. If
Speaker 3: I were Rachel, if I were Rachel's friends family, I'd
Speaker 3: be like, why isn't he proposing to you? And that
Speaker 3: does become a glaring and important question, and it's hard
Speaker 3: to ask because she probably didn't want to know the answer.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I saw this recently about I can't remember what breakup
Speaker 2: it was, but it was described this way. It ran
Speaker 2: its course like they they just got to a point
Speaker 2: that we're either going to do this or we're going
Speaker 2: to do this, like huh, there's nothing else for this, reallylationship.
Speaker 2: We know we're not going to get married, certainly not
Speaker 2: anytime soon. It's okay, we've run our course and call
Speaker 2: on your own way. Is it any possibility that yeahship.
Speaker 3: Yell, of course. It's the reasons the people say there.
Speaker 3: This is the concept behind relationships in a person's lifetime.
Speaker 3: There's a reason. Sometimes there's this season sometimes and rarely. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a lifetime. But a lot of times, well that
Speaker 3: is true. I mean the reason and season is probably
Speaker 3: far more plentiful than the lifetime relationship.
Speaker 2: She did make clear, we do want to say at
Speaker 2: the end, she wanted to make this clear. I've seen
Speaker 2: rumors out there about they're being infidelity. She said that
Speaker 2: had nothing to do. She went said it several times.
Speaker 2: He is a good guy. He is a god fearing man.
Speaker 2: He didn't want us to live together until we got married.
Speaker 2: But she at the same time, she said, hey, we've
Speaker 2: been traveling everywhere. When the hotel rooms does a big deal.
Speaker 3: Half this stuff is still at my place in Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 2: She said, yes, so they we talked about this the
Speaker 2: last time. When he first announced their breakup. We knew
Speaker 2: like they were not in the same city. They traveled
Speaker 2: everywhere together, but they were bouncing around quite a bit.
Speaker 3: Look the multiple times that I have hung out with Matt,
Speaker 3: and it's multiple multiple He's never been with Rachel, and
Speaker 3: not because they were fighting or there was some issue.
Speaker 3: It was just they were all over the place. And
Speaker 3: she did point out another looking in hindsight, there are
Speaker 3: always a lot of red flags, but people's actions do
Speaker 3: speak louder than their words. She said. Getting him to
Speaker 3: come to weddings, and she did have a lot of them,
Speaker 3: was like pulling teeth that he didn't want to go.
Speaker 3: He didn't want to come, be like those are.
Speaker 2: All the way to a lot of those.
Speaker 3: He did. But I do think that that is a sign,
Speaker 3: you know. I don't know. I always go back to
Speaker 3: what my mom told me. If a man, this may
Speaker 3: be's so unfair, here you go, but I'm going to
Speaker 3: say what my mom told me, and it always stuck
Speaker 3: with me. She said, if a man wants to be
Speaker 3: with you, if a man loves you, he will walk
Speaker 3: across water to be with you if you ask him,
Speaker 3: and even if you don't. And I don't know, I've
Speaker 3: always kind of held that.
Speaker 2: He should be Jesus for your mom with that.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she dancedn't shun impress off of fifty years.
Speaker 3: Somehow it's working though.
Speaker 1: Her hearts go out to these two. Love them both.
Speaker 2: Like I said you mentioned, Yeah, most of the times
Speaker 2: I was with Matt, Rachel wasn't around. But I have
Speaker 2: gotten to spend some good time with her. We had
Speaker 2: a good old laugh because I had to cover her
Speaker 2: story every day on GMA what was happening in the
Speaker 2: controversy with bachelor.
Speaker 1: He loves that young lady.
Speaker 2: She is adorable, she has great energy, she has great
Speaker 2: But I am saying all complimentary things because of somebody
Speaker 2: I stood in front of and got to know in
Speaker 2: that way. I'm watching her here in this moment, and
Speaker 2: it's not a matter of taking sides. He is my
Speaker 2: friend and someone I'm close to, so I'm I will
Speaker 2: forever defend him, and I will forever I won't defend
Speaker 2: bad behavior, but I can still be supportive of him
Speaker 2: in a public way and knowing I'm not defending him
Speaker 2: putting that post up and if he asked me ahead
Speaker 2: of time, bro, this is what we should do with
Speaker 2: this thing, I would have recommended that, but for the
Speaker 2: relationship he had, where his heart was, where his intentions were,
Speaker 2: what he's sincerely desired out of this relationship with her,
Speaker 2: with her, he should not be criticized.
Speaker 3: I agree, And it's painful because we do know him.
Speaker 3: This all of the speculation and finger pointing. Again, everyone
Speaker 3: wants a bad guy, and I do think us women,
Speaker 3: this is true love to point the finger at the
Speaker 3: man and say look what he did. Look and she
Speaker 3: was not doing that. And so I just think we,
Speaker 3: like you know both of them. I know Matt, and
Speaker 3: these are good people who had good intentions, who made
Speaker 3: mistakes along the way, as we all do. So I
Speaker 3: also just want to say, while this is very painful
Speaker 3: to watch and it is heartbreaking, it's far less painful
Speaker 3: than a divorce after a children are involved. So I
Speaker 3: just want to give both of them a big hug,
Speaker 3: and I want to give them a break from all
Speaker 3: the speculation and all the finger pointing and just let
Speaker 3: them heal because it's they're gonna it's gonna they're gonna
Speaker 3: need some time, both of them.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if there's potential for these two
Speaker 2: getting back together. The way she put it was after
Speaker 2: you hear someone say that like she's she doesn't think
Speaker 2: she could rekindle, just after you hear someone say they
Speaker 2: you're not the type of person I want as a wife.
Speaker 3: Is a difficult Honestly, that makes me want to cry
Speaker 3: for her. That is a tough thing to hear. It
Speaker 3: doesn't mean she's a bad person. It's just something. It's
Speaker 3: it's about dynamic and and it's it's about how you
Speaker 3: communicate and how you handle not just the good times
Speaker 3: but the bad times. And it's heartbreaking, it really is.
Speaker 3: And that's a tough damn thing to hear. But better
Speaker 3: to hear it before a marriage than after.
Speaker 2: Mom always said you'd rather find out in five months
Speaker 2: than five years that there's an issue. So Matt, we
Speaker 2: love your brother. Rachel. We love you too, just it's
Speaker 2: not as close to her, but we love you. And
Speaker 2: you were taking care of our guy, and if you
Speaker 2: were good for him and had a smile on his face,
Speaker 2: you were always always going to be a favorite of ours,
Speaker 2: simple as that. So, folks, you'll hear plenty more about this,
Speaker 2: And I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Robes.
Speaker 2: We watch so often from Afar and we see the
Speaker 2: way somebody you care about people you care about being
Speaker 2: talked about in such a way. Yeah, and it doesn't
Speaker 2: feel good. So we'll see what neck this might be
Speaker 2: it for a while. This is and you know what,
Speaker 2: I was jealous in listening to her, jealous And then
Speaker 2: while she she stepped out and spoke when things were
Speaker 2: going on, she just didn't let it keep going. I
Speaker 2: just I always look at them and go, wow, that's
Speaker 2: what we should have done. There are lessons to be learning,
Speaker 2: there are lessons we learned that. I'm like, I would
Speaker 2: love to go run to both of them now and say, hey,
Speaker 2: this is coming. You should do this, this should do this,
Speaker 2: because we do have an experience there. Yeah, lends itself
Speaker 2: to what they're going through.
Speaker 3: Well. I do appreciate the fact that both of them
Speaker 3: said nothing but kind words about one another, and when
Speaker 3: they both did publicly say something, it was never with
Speaker 3: any sort of contempt or any sort of blame. And
Speaker 3: I hope it stays that way. And again, I just
Speaker 3: want to give you both a hug.
Speaker 2: It will it'll stay at both And you know what
Speaker 2: she said, I know she said that.
Speaker 1: He said to.
Speaker 2: Her during the breakup, I will never say anything bad
Speaker 2: about you in a public form.
Speaker 3: Ever, that's cool and that's the mat we know. And
Speaker 3: he has been calling her by the way to check
Speaker 3: up on her, and I think I get a certain point.
Speaker 3: She's like, okay, I'm okay and enough that's almost making
Speaker 3: it painful. He was trying to be kind, but I
Speaker 3: get that, and look, who knows, Like you said, a
Speaker 3: year from now, you never know what could happen.
Speaker 2: It threw me, just the idea if he kept calling.
Speaker 2: She's like, okay, I get it, you can stop calling
Speaker 2: to check on me. But it threw me, she said.
Speaker 2: The first time he called after the breakup, like after
Speaker 2: the first several minutes of talking how you're doing, they
Speaker 2: just started talking about, Hey, how was the Tokyo trip?
Speaker 1: Your last day there? Had?
Speaker 3: They were best friends?
Speaker 1: Yes, think about that, folks.
Speaker 2: Imagine right now your best friend is gone. That's tough.
Speaker 2: Not the person you're dating, but everybody has the best
Speaker 2: who who that person.
Speaker 3: Is, Well, you're my best friend, so you don't have.
Speaker 2: That person all of a sudden, who also happened to
Speaker 2: be your mate, who was going to be the father
Speaker 2: of your children.
Speaker 3: It's like a death that's hard, like a.
Speaker 2: Death God, that's tough and she's going through it. God
Speaker 2: you know he is too, But man, that poor girl.
Speaker 1: And we'll see you down the road, won't we? All right? Road?
Speaker 1: How much time do I for?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: To propose? We're not on the same kind of timeline,
Speaker 3: and I won't put you on one. I'll let you
Speaker 3: know when when it's the moment that I feel like
Speaker 3: it needs to happen.
Speaker 2: How much of a heads up, I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I actually can't speak on that in any real way.
Speaker 3: I'm not anywhere close to it. Like we watched the
Speaker 3: show called the Ultimatum, I would never do that.
Speaker 1: Give me an ultimatum.
Speaker 3: No, no, But I just feel like at a certain point, yeah,
Speaker 3: if it runs its course, it runs its course. But
Speaker 3: pressure could never I don't think pressure should ever be
Speaker 3: a part of a decision. So I'll never put the
Speaker 3: pressure on you. You're fine, We're both fine, which we
Speaker 3: do talk about it. We do check in.
Speaker 2: Got another couple of years for marriage?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't. I told you this already. I
Speaker 3: don't need a proposal necessarily in any specific amount of time.
Speaker 3: But I have made it very clear that I do
Speaker 3: want to move in with you.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's that's that's not issue.
Speaker 2: But proposal wise, we're good. This is like a it's
Speaker 2: a decision.
Speaker 3: I actually don't expect a proposal. I think we've talked
Speaker 3: about it. I think we'll make the decision. We're we're
Speaker 3: grown as adults. We're going to Vegas soon, so I
Speaker 3: think that we'll make the decision to get married together.
Speaker 3: I'm not expecting a proposal at all.
Speaker 2: Okay, so time wise on us making the decision, what
Speaker 2: what are we dealing with?
Speaker 3: I think we're we're getting close.
Speaker 2: To the ultimatum no her face right now.
Speaker 3: Ultimatum there never will.
Speaker 2: Be Okay, then there will ever be any pressure for
Speaker 2: us to get married.
Speaker 3: No, but I've said I would like to.
Speaker 2: Okay, this was as supposed to happen at the end. Sorry,
Speaker 2: all right, folks, we appreciate you. It's always we're listening
Speaker 2: to Amy and DJ. I guess next episode episode this
Speaker 2: might just be called the Amy Podcast because I might
Speaker 2: not be here.
Speaker 1: We'll see you voks.
Speaker 3: All right, have a great day. Everyone be kind to
Speaker 3: each other.