1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Science Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio. I'm 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: Horey Champ and today we are tackling a question that 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: is very personal to me and that I imagine is 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: very personal to you as well. And the question is 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: what really makes us happy? 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: Is it money? Is it love? Is it a sense 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: of purpose? Or is it random? Believe it or not. 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: Science has studied this question and it has come up 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: with some pretty definitive answers. So we're going to talk 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: to two scientists today. One is a psychologist who's running 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: one of the biggest and most unique experiments on human 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: happiness in history. And we're going to talk to a 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: neuroscientist who's going to tell us what he thinks is 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: happening in your brain when you feel happy. 15 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: Now. 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: This is the first in a two part series, so 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: be sure to also check out part two. Okay, get 18 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: ready to experience the joy of science as we answer 19 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 1: the question it really makes us happy? Hey everyone, Okay, 20 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: before we get started, I want you to take a 21 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: second and ask yourself this question, Am I happy? I'll 22 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: take a pause so you can think about it. 23 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: Now. 24 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: If you're a skeptical person, you might be thinking, well, 25 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: Orge what do you mean by being happy? Or you 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: might be thinking, well, sometimes I feel happy and sometimes 27 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: I don't. 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: Happiness is a pretty tricky. 29 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: Subject, which is what inspired our first guest here today, 30 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: doctor Matt Killingsworth, to start as a graduate student at 31 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: Harvard something called Track Your Happiness dot Org. Well, thank you, 32 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: doctor Killingsworth for joining us. 33 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: Glad to be here. 34 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: Please tell us who you are and what you do. 35 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 3: Sure, my name is Matt Killingsworth. I'm at the University 36 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 3: of Pennsylvania at the Wharton School of Business, and I'm 37 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 3: a researcher who studies human happiness. 38 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: Fantastic, so tell us about Track Yourhappiness dot org. 39 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 3: So this is a project that I started more than 40 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 3: a decade ago. Track Your Happiness really aims to be 41 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 3: the world's biggest happiness study to try to figure out 42 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: the recipe for human happiness and how to spread it 43 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: into people's lives. Since this project's been started, hundreds of 44 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: thousands of people from around the world have joined across 45 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 3: its different versions. I created it because I wanted to 46 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 3: understand how happy people really feel as they actually go 47 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 3: about their daily lives. What makes our lives enjoyable, fulfilling, interesting, satisfying, Okay. 48 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Pilling's Worth study uses a very specific method called 49 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 1: experience sampling, which is based on the idea that how 50 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: we answer the question are you happy kind of changes 51 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: throughout the day, and it depends on what's happening to 52 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: us on any given moment. We'll get to how it works, 53 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: but first I wanted to know how he got this idea. 54 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: I really, you know, especially before and during my PhD training, 55 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 3: I really read the scientific literature, hundreds and hundreds and 56 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: thousands of papers, so I had a pretty good sense 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 3: of all of the things that we discovered up to 58 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 3: that point. 59 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: So what were the things that you learn from the literature? 60 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 3: Lots of different things. So the idea that happiness might 61 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 3: be important, I mean, you can go back to Aristotle, 62 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: you can certainly go back to Jeremy Mintham and John 63 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 3: Stuart Mill and other people kind of arguing some version 64 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 3: of happiness is kind of like the reason we do 65 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 3: everything else. It's the metric or the construct that all 66 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: this other stuff that humanity is pursuing is ultimately trying 67 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 3: to achieve. But it really wasn't until you know, the 68 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 3: second half of the twentieth century at least, and even 69 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 3: more so in the last few decades that it's become 70 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: quite clear that we can measure happiness pretty well, not perfectly, 71 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 3: but well enough to do really good science. I mean, 72 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: that's probably the most essential thing that research is documented, 73 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: because if you can't measure it, you can't really do 74 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: science with it. But once you measure it, you could 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 3: be wrong about basically everything. But if you keep measuring, observing, 76 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 3: you know, refining your thinking, oh, you'll get closer and 77 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 3: closer and closer to the truth. 78 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: What Decker Killingsworth is saying is that happiness, or the 79 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: pursuit of it, in a way, kind of defines what 80 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: it means to be human. I mean, it's in the 81 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: founding Document of the United States that it's one of 82 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: our unalienable rights. It's the thing we all strive for 83 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: and hope to achieve. And yet it wasn't until the 84 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties that we started studying it scientifically. That's what 85 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: psychologist started to look into it. 86 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 3: Well, a lot of the past research really focused on 87 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: what are the characteristics of happy people? Like who is happy? 88 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 3: We knew something about relationship between age and happiness, and 89 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 3: income and happiness, and how different countries differ in their 90 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 3: levels of happiness. You know, lots of these things that 91 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 3: you might collect on a big government survey or you 92 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: know personality as well, how to things like the Big 93 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 3: five personality dimensions relate to happiness. And one of the 94 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 3: things that was really missing, I think was trying to 95 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 3: understand like when people are happy. 96 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: So all of these studies since the nineteen fifties made 97 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: a lot of progress. 98 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: And trying to figure out the general. 99 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: Factors that affect your happiness, like personality, how much money 100 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: you have, what culture or country you live in. But 101 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: according to doctor Killingsworth, the data was always a little fuzzy. 102 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: That's because of something I think we all know about happiness, 103 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: which is said it sort of depends on when you 104 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: ask me if I'm happy or not. In other words, 105 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: is happiness how I feel in the moment, or is 106 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: happiness how I feel when I take a step back 107 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: and consider my life in general. If you ask me 108 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: if I'm happy in a particularly stressful moment, like if 109 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: I'm frustrated with my job, or my kids or my relationships, 110 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: I might answer one way. 111 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: Whereas if you ask me while I'm on. 112 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: Vacation, sitting in a beach thinking about my life, I 113 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: might answer a different way, not to mention. Sometimes there 114 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: are trade offs in life. Sometimes you have to put 115 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: up with unpleasant moments or do things we don't really 116 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: want to do that might help us in the long run, 117 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: like cleaning your COI lit Or exercising or most jobs 118 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: for most people. Now, this is something scientists knew, but 119 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: they didn't know quite what to do about it. Nobody 120 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,559 Speaker 1: had thought to think that houseone responds to the question 121 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: are you happy? Depends on when you ask them the question. 122 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: I'm not saying they never thought of it. I think 123 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 3: people were certainly aware those things could be important, but 124 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 3: we really lacked the ability to do it. So, Like 125 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: this method of experience sampling that's really the cornerstone of 126 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: my research, you know, was invented by a guy Mehi 127 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: chicksit me Hai back in like the late nineteen seventies. 128 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: But he did it with like radio pages clipped to 129 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: someone's belt and then a little paper booklet they filled 130 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: out when the beeper went off. Well you can study 131 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 3: like eight people at a time. Later, there were you know, 132 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: studies using like pomp pilot for those of us who 133 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 3: are old enough to remember that technology. But literally before 134 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 3: I started this project, I looked in you know, the 135 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: flagship journals of the discipline of psychology, and they would 136 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 3: have twenty studies that ever use experience sampling, and they 137 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 3: would have ten or twenty people in them a most. 138 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 3: You know, now I've had hundreds of thousands of people 139 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: in the study, and you know, a gigantic number of 140 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 3: variables too. 141 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to how Doctor Killing Sports project works. 142 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: If you go to track your Happiness dot org, you 143 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: can sign up with your phone or your email, and 144 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: once you sign up, you become part of the study. 145 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: So you'll first answer some questions about your life, like 146 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: your demographics and your personality and kind of your expectations 147 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: of how you think you experienced different facets of life. 148 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: And then from there, I really want to follow up 149 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,119 Speaker 3: in the course of daily life. So you know, maybe 150 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: you did that on Monday, and now it's Tuesday. You're 151 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: going to start getting some pings from me, some kind 152 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: of notifications by email or SMS or or something else, 153 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 3: and hopefully you'll answer one or a few surveys each day. 154 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 3: So I might ask you questions like how do you 155 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 3: feel right now, are you interacting with anyone else? Are 156 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: you thinking about something other than what you're doing? You know, 157 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: have you exercised in the last twenty four hours? A 158 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 3: bunch of factors, And I'm basically taking the answers to 159 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 3: all of those questions, combining with the signals on happiness, 160 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 3: both in the moment happiness and these longer term measures 161 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: of happiness, and trying to sort of figure out, well, 162 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 3: what is the right equation for human happiness in general. 163 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: So the big innovation here is that we all carry 164 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: our phones with us all the time, and that gives 165 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: doctor Killingsworth a chance to basically pop into your life 166 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: and see how happy you are in any moment, because 167 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: if someone were to ask you later, your answer might change, 168 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: or you might not remember how you felt, or your 169 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: memory might get distorted with time. 170 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 3: You know, we all experience those things. We're kind of 171 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 3: aware of what happening in the moment, but it's surprisingly 172 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 3: hard later to remember what occurred. And that's why tracking 173 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: and measuring are so powerful. So the sort of premise 174 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 3: behind this is that if I can watch and see 175 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: how happiness goes up and down during people's daily life 176 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 3: across a whole bunch of different people and then put 177 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 3: all that data together to try to understand what drivers 178 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 3: of happiness might explain those shifts up and down. We 179 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 3: might discover some new insights into what really makes the 180 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 3: experience of human life better. 181 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: And what makes people give you an answer at the time, Like, 182 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: if I'm in the middle of a difficult moment or 183 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: a super happy moment, why would I interrupt it and 184 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: answer it. 185 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: It's partly is that it's going to contribute to the 186 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: quality of your insight into yourself. So if you're selective 187 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 3: about when you choose to respond, you're going to end 188 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 3: up with an incomplete picture of your own life. You're 189 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 3: not going to understand what your best moments look like, 190 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: what your worst moments look like, if you're kind of 191 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: leaving those out. So it's not necessarily great for you. 192 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: I feel like it requires a certain openness, But I imagine 193 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: it could also be very therapeutic to kind of be 194 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: open and to confide in your system. 195 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 3: I think so, and I mean, honestly, I think there's 196 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 3: real value in kind of the happiness report that people 197 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: get back and seeing their data. 198 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention when you sign out 199 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: to be a part of the study. You also get 200 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: a report on your daily happiness. Okay, when we come back, 201 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: we're going to find out what doctor Killingsworth found in 202 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: this study that, as he mentioned, hundreds of thousands of 203 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: people from across the world have participated in. We're going 204 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: to find out what affects your happiness the most, and 205 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: we're going to find out if money is one of them. 206 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: So stay with us, we'll be right back. 207 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: Welcome back. 208 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: Okay, we're answering the question what makes you happy? And 209 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: so far we'fer from the scientists who's been running one 210 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: of the largest and most unique studies on people's happiness 211 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: ever done. The study, led by doctor Matt Killingsworth, thanks 212 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: participants at random times during the day and ask them 213 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: what they're doing, how they feel, and many other questions 214 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: to try to get a sense of what happiness is 215 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: and what are the factors that determine whether you're happy 216 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: or not. 217 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: It's at random times, and that's the idea. So you 218 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: can kind of think of, you know, ordinary like political surveys, 219 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: they're trying to get a representative sample of a population. Well, 220 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 3: my job as a scientist is to get a representative 221 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: sample of your moments, and so I'm gonna sort of 222 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 3: ping you at a bunch of random moments, and you know, 223 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 3: sometimes those will feel like odd times. 224 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: So might be washing my dishes and I'll get a 225 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: pink from you to ask me how I'm feeling. Or 226 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: i might be in the middle of like a frustrating 227 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: moment with my kids and I'll still get a pin 228 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: from you. 229 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 3: Exactly, It'll happen a bunch of times, and collectively that 230 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 3: kind of gives us this representative series of snapshots of 231 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 3: what do you actually do in your life, how do 232 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 3: you spend your time, what are you thinking about, how 233 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 3: do you feel, and lots of other factors. 234 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: According to doctor Killingsworth, hundreds of thousands of people have 235 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: signed up for the study over the years, generating a 236 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: huge amount of data on basically how humans live their lives. 237 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: So now the question is what does all this data 238 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: tell you about happiness? Well, as it turns out, doctor 239 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: Killingsworth has studied the data and he's identified several key 240 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: factors seem to matter the most when it comes to 241 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: your happiness. So at this point you have hundreds of 242 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: thousands of people who have signed up for this So 243 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: in your studies, What are the factors that contribute to 244 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: people's happiness. 245 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you some big ones. One of the 246 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 3: first ones that I published from this project was from 247 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: a paper called The Wandering Mind is an Unhappy Mind, 248 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 3: And so I just added this question that said, are 249 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 3: you thinking about something other than what you're currently doing? 250 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 3: And people could either say no, I'm just focused on 251 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: the present moment on what I'm doing, or yes, I'm 252 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 3: thinking about something else. And then I asked, if you 253 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: are thinking about something else, are those thoughts pleasant, neutral, 254 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: or unpleasant? And it turned out that people were engaging 255 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 3: in mind wandering almost half the time, and that turns 256 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: out to be very robustly correlated with lower happiness. 257 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: Okay, the first thing doctor Killingsworth found when you pink 258 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: people at random throughout their day is that many of 259 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: us are not really living in the present. About half 260 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: the time people were thinking about something other than what 261 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: they were doing. And you find that the people that 262 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: were distracted tended to be the people that also reported 263 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: being unhappy, especially the ones that were distracted thinking about 264 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 1: irrelevant or unpleasant things. In other words, living in the 265 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: moment and not letting your mind wonder makes you happier. 266 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: Half the time our mind is wondering, and when our 267 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: mind is wonder it tends to pull down our experience exactly. 268 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 3: Partly it's because some of the time we think about 269 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 3: negative things, but I think it also impedes our ability 270 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 3: to enjoy what we're doing. Like, you know, if we're 271 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 3: having this conversation, like, the more the energy and attention 272 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 3: I'm bringing to that, the more I'm probably going to 273 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 3: enjoy it. If you kind of disengage and you're just 274 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 3: kind of partially doing things, You're probably not going to 275 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 3: enjoy it that much either. 276 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 4: I see. 277 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: There's something inherently pleasurable about being in the moment. 278 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: That seems to be the case even when people are 279 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: like cleaning their house, they're much happier when they're just 280 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: focused on what they're doing than when they let their 281 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 3: attention stray elsewhere. 282 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so living in the moment is scientifically proven to 283 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: make you happier. It's not just something taught by Buddhist Okay, 284 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: what else did doctor Killingsworth find in all this data? 285 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: All right, so what are some of the other factors 286 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: you found? 287 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 3: So things like what percentage of your life are you 288 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 3: interacting in person with other humans. 289 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: How social you're being in your life. 290 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: How social you really are in person? Exactly. So someone 291 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 3: that spends a lot of their leisure time really engaging 292 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 3: with other people versus folks that get off work and 293 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 3: they go and sit at home alone or you know, 294 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 3: watching television or scrolling on their phone or something. 295 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: Maybe explain to us for work some of the questions 296 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: you would ask people. 297 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I might ask them are you talking or 298 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 3: interacting with someone right now? And they could say yes 299 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 3: or no? And I might say is that in person? 300 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: Over video, over text? Which people are those? Friend, spouse, acquaintance, stranger, coworker, boss, child, grandparent, 301 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 3: et cetera. So it turns out interacting in person with 302 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 3: other people is really good. 303 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: Wow. So the more you're interacting with people in person, 304 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: greater the happiness in your life. 305 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: That's right. So if you just look at different people's 306 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 3: lives and say, you know, this person interacts ten percent 307 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 3: of the time, this person as interacts forty percent, this 308 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 3: person seventy percent, that percentage is also a very good 309 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 3: predictor of how happy they tend to be. So you 310 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 3: will be transiently happier relative to your own average moment 311 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 3: when you're interacting versus not and the more you accumulate 312 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 3: those moments, the better your life tends to be in 313 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 3: terms of how you feel, in terms of how satisfied 314 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 3: and fulfilled you are. 315 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: Oh, I should tell that to my kids, my teenage 316 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: son for sure. 317 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 2: All right. The second big. 318 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: Factor, like doctor Killingsworth found in all the data that 319 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: affects your happiness is interacting with other people. Being social 320 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: makes you happier, although there are a few caveats. This 321 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: interaction has to be in person. Online doesn't count, and 322 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: you have to really engage in it. You can't just 323 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: sit at a party and be on your phone the 324 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: whole time. Also, the context in which you interact with 325 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: people matters. For example, talking with co workers at work helps, 326 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: but not that much. Okay, And you said that kind 327 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: of how we interact with those people in what context 328 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: is important? 329 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, So during leisure time is when it seems to 330 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: matter the most. So kind of in your free time, 331 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: engaging with other people is especially beneficial. So like working 332 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 3: on your own versus with other people, it's somewhat better 333 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 3: with other people, but that's a smaller difference versus like 334 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,719 Speaker 3: going out and hanging out with your friends versus like 335 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 3: sitting at home alone. That's extremely different. 336 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: In other words, people who spend more time having meaningful 337 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: interactions with other people on their free time in person 338 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: tend to report being happier. Now, I think, I know 339 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: what a lot of you out there are thinking right now. 340 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: But does that mean introverts are a little unhappier? 341 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 3: Introverts are a bit less happy? So I think my 342 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 3: data also reveal a kind of trap, which is introverts 343 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: think they don't benefit much, or some even think that 344 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: they're harmed by interacting with other people. But that isn't 345 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 3: actually the reality. The reality is, despite your best intuitions, 346 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: speaking as an introvert myself, like, you would actually be 347 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 3: happier if you went out and interacted with other people. 348 00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: Amazing, Yes, sorry, introverts, you would be a lot happier 349 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: if you make the effort to talk to people for fun. 350 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: Science says, so okay, And then there is a third 351 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: big factor that doctor Kingsworth's found that has a huge 352 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: impact on your happiness. So tell me what are some 353 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: of the other factors. 354 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: Then, yeah, so we talked about mental factors, we talked 355 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 3: about social factors, another one or what I would call 356 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 3: like physical factors. Particularly, the biggest one by far is 357 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 3: just being physically active. The number of days of the 358 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: week that someone is exercising is a surprisingly strong predictor 359 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: of their level of happiness across all these different outcomes. 360 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry to you too, couch potatoes, but sitting around 361 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: and doing nothing is also making you unhappy. The good 362 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: news is that physical activity doesn't have to mean exercise, 363 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: and it. 364 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 3: Doesn't just have to be exercised simply like, the level 365 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 3: of physical activation in your body is a very strong 366 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 3: predictor of happiness. Being more physically in gauge in whatever 367 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 3: is going on is a really good predictor of happiness. 368 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: What do you mean physically engaged? 369 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 3: Like? Literally, how energized is your body right now? Are 370 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 3: you sitting down and not moving or are you standing 371 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 3: up and moving around? Are you walking? Are you moving 372 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 3: with energy? Kind of the more energy you're expending, the 373 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: happier you tend to be. 374 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: What what kinds of questions would you ask people in 375 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: this case? 376 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 3: I literally ask them at this moment, are you lying down, sitting, standing, walking, jogging, running, 377 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 3: you know, being intensely physically active in some other way 378 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 3: and there's basically just a straight line upward. The more 379 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 3: they're kind of physically activated, the better they feel in 380 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 3: the moment and in their lives. 381 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: All right. 382 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: To wecap, these are the three main factors that affect 383 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: your happiness, according to an analysis of data from hundreds 384 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: of thousands of people that look into their daily lives 385 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: and how they feel. Number one live in the moment, 386 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: Number two have meaningful in person non work interactions with 387 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: other people. And three stay physically active. Now, of course 388 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: that's not the full picture of happiness, but as doctor 389 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: Killyesworth says, focusing on these three things can go a 390 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: long way to making you happier. 391 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 3: So the way that I kind of think about those 392 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 3: three factors, you know, there's so many other things going 393 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 3: on with happiness. It's not like this is the total story, 394 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 3: but I think it's a set of things that's pretty important. 395 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: You can kind of think about a happy life as 396 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 3: a function of being like mentally engaged, socially engaged, and 397 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 3: physically engaged, sort of a life of engagement across those 398 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: sort of three pillars. If you're doing pretty well and 399 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 3: all three of those things, you're doing really well, And 400 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 3: if you're really not doing very well in all of 401 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 3: those things. 402 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 2: You know, you're. 403 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 3: Probably not doing so great. Like that doesn't get us 404 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 3: all the way from the most miserable person to the 405 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 3: most happy person. But that's going to be a big 406 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 3: set of exponatory factors. Again my data correlation, but I 407 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 3: think it seems likely that if you're able to kind 408 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: of flip those levers in your life, that would make 409 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 3: a big difference in your happiness. 410 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: All right, when we come back, we're going to talk 411 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: to a neuroscientist to learn what he thinks about all 412 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: of this and what exactly is going on inside of 413 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: a happy brain. Stay with us, you're listening to sign 414 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: stuff and we're back. We're answering the question what really 415 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: makes us happy? And we learn there are three factors 416 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: that have a big impact on how happy we are, 417 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: living in the present, having in person interactions with other people, 418 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: and staying physically active. 419 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: So is that it okay? 420 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask doctor Killingsworth more about what these 421 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: other factors are, including the ageless question of whether money 422 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: makes us happy. But first I wanted to check in 423 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: with my friend, neuroscientist Duane Godwin. I wrote a book 424 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: called Out of your Mind, in which we talk about 425 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,959 Speaker 1: the brain science of everyday phenomena, including what makes us happy. 426 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with doctor Godwin. So, first question, Dwayne, 427 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: are you happy? 428 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 4: Well? You know, Hora, that's a complicated question, but I'm 429 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 4: doing well and my cork is floating. 430 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: I mean, like, are you happy that you finally are 431 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: regular on my podcast? 432 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 4: Yeah? I'm just scared that somehow I'll destroy your ratings, 433 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 4: but otherwise I'm pretty happy to be here. 434 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: How do we think of happiness in terms of how 435 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: the brain works? 436 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 4: Well, when I think about happiness and the things that 437 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 4: contribute to happiness, I think about a number of different 438 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 4: areas of the brain. The first, everyone talks about your 439 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 4: brain's pleasure circuitry, So aart of that has to do 440 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 4: with release of dopamine and the perception and feeling of 441 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 4: pleasure you get when that happens. But this idea of 442 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 4: happiness a little more complicated because that has to do 443 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 4: with your assessment that you make about how content you 444 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 4: are about your life. And when we talk about those, 445 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 4: we then have to bring in your frontal lobes, because 446 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 4: that's the place where what is good, what feels good, 447 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 4: what is emotionally satisfying or calculated, and that information then 448 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 4: feeds back into this pleasure circuitry and affects your sense 449 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 4: of well being. 450 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: Right what doctor Godwin is saying is that there is 451 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: a part of your brain that basically makes you feel good, 452 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: and that can be activated by what we're doing in 453 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: the moment, if you're eating a good meal, if you're 454 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: having a positive interaction with someone, or if you're having 455 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: a good workout, but it can also be activated by 456 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: your own thoughts and you use the front part of 457 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: your brain to step back and assess your life and 458 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: what's going on, that can also trigger the brain areas 459 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: that make you feel good, and that has big implications 460 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: for our happiness. First of all, it means that what 461 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: you think, and more important, how you think about the 462 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: things that are going on in your life can affect 463 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: how you feel or how happy you are. We'll talk 464 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: more about things like stoicism and cognitive therapy a little later, 465 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: but the fact that happiness is rooted in the brain 466 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: means that how easy it is to be happy can 467 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: change from person to person. 468 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 4: You know, there is a certain baseline level of happiness 469 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 4: that can be attributed to just how genetically predisposed you 470 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 4: are to feeling happy. And what we know about genes 471 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 4: is that genes become proteins. Proteins become the structure of 472 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 4: the brain, and the structure of the brain houses the 473 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 4: activity of the brain. So it's not a very hard 474 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 4: line to draw between a genetic predisposition and the actual 475 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 4: activity that generates these complex emotional states. 476 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: In other words, some brains might be happier than others, 477 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: and this is all because of genetics. How do genetics 478 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: affect our ability to be happy? 479 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 4: Sure? You know. One of the studies that we do 480 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 4: cover in some detail in the book is the study 481 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 4: of the Minnesota Twins. And when I say Minnesota Twins, 482 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 4: I don't mean the baseball team. I mean an enormous 483 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 4: study of twins that followed identical twins who have been 484 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 4: raised apart. It was really kind of a natural experiment 485 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 4: in the question of whether happiness is hardwired. One example 486 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 4: of this involved twins that were separated at birth, who, 487 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 4: despite the fact that they never met each other, they 488 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 4: both reported similar levels of happiness, their optimism, and even 489 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 4: overall life satisfaction. 490 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: Okay, this is a pretty cool study. Starting in nineteen 491 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: seventy nine, psychologist at the University of Minnesota were able 492 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: to survey over one hundred sets of twins that were 493 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: separated at birth. These are twins that were born together, 494 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: but for some reason we're split apart and raised under 495 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 1: different circumstances. Have you seen the movie The Trapp or 496 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: heard the story The Prince and the Popper. These are 497 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: real life examples of those stories. It's almost like the 498 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: perfect experiment, right, Like if you had a copy of yourself, 499 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: which is what identical twin is, and you had one 500 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: of you lead one kind of life and the other 501 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: lead another kind of life, and then you check them 502 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: with yourself and your twin later. You could see whether 503 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: life affects your happiness or whether it's something sort of 504 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: inherent to your genes. 505 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, in a way, it's like the perfect experiment because 506 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 4: you can of count for a lot of the other 507 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 4: confounds and variability that happens in a life. 508 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: All right, But here is a super cool part of 509 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: the experiment. The scientist didn't just look at identical twins 510 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: that were separated at birth. They also looked at for 511 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: eternal twins that were separated at birth. That is, twins 512 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: that are basically just siblings and not genetically identical. So 513 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: they looked at genetically identical twins basically clones were separated 514 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: at birth, and they looked at non genetically identical twins 515 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: that were also separated at birth, which is like the 516 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: perfect control. Now, the scientists looked into all kinds of 517 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: things about these twins, what their personalities ended up being, 518 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: how smart they are, what kind of jobs they had, 519 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: and they also asked them basically how happy they were 520 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: and what did they find. 521 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 4: What they found was the fifty percent of the areas 522 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 4: and their baseline level of happiness could be attributed to 523 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 4: genetic factors. 524 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: Then, how much of their happiness was correlated with being 525 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: fans of the Minnesota Twins? 526 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 4: Possibly? 527 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how they've they've been doing, 528 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: but it sounds like something that might affect your happiness. Yeah. 529 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 4: I think the major idea here is that twins studies 530 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 4: provide a really important natural experiment. 531 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: Okay. 532 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: What they found was that sets of identical twins would 533 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: sort of both report being the same level of happiness 534 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: even though they were raised apart, but the fraternal twins 535 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: the non identical ones wouldn't always be the same It's 536 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: like if you had a clone that led a totally 537 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: different life than you, and that clone was happy, chances 538 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: are that you would be happy too, Or if your 539 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: clone was unhappy, you would probably be unhappy as well. 540 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: In other words, about fifty percent of how happy you are, 541 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: the scientists found, is due to your genes. That is, 542 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: some people are just born to be a little happier 543 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: than others. Now, the thing to note here is that 544 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: this means some of your happiness is already determined for you, 545 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: but it also means a lot of it is not. 546 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 4: But you know, I think the other thing that's really 547 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 4: important about this is you could look at that and say, 548 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 4: oh my gosh, I really don't have control of how 549 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 4: happy I am. But I think that's the wrong way 550 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 4: to think about it. I think the correct way to 551 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 4: think about it is that, hey, you've got fifty percent 552 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 4: to play with. You know that other half of it 553 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 4: is really stuff that's under your control, circumstances that you 554 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 4: know you may have say over. 555 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: Okay, I still have a lot of questions about happiness, 556 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: questions like how does having a purpose in life affect 557 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: your happiness? Or how important is money? And how happy 558 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: you feel and it's being on your phone all day 559 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: making you unhappy. We're going to tackle all these questions 560 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: in the second part of this series, so make sure 561 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: you subscribe and listen to the second episode next week. 562 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: Here's a sneak peak. 563 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 3: So if you go back to kind of the state 564 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 3: of the scientific literature, the kind of common narrative amongst 565 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 3: happiness researchers is that money doesn't really matter very much 566 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 3: for happiness. I think we actually got that kind of. 567 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: Wrong, all right, Tune in next week for part two 568 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 1: of What Really makes This Happy? 569 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: See then you've been listening to Science Stuff production. 570 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 1: Of iHeartRadio, written and produced by me or hitchm pndedate 571 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: by Rose Seguda, executive producer Jerry Rowland, and audio engineer 572 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: and mixer Ksey Pepperm. And you can follow me on 573 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: social media. Just search for PhD Comics and the name 574 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: of your favorite platform. Be sure to subscribe to Sign 575 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 576 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and please tell your friends. We'll be 577 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: back next Wednesday with another episode.