WEBVTT - Do ear buds cause hearing loss? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:17.880 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.599 and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poette 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:22.400 and I am an editor here at how stuff works 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.360 dot com and sending a cross from me as usual 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:32.760 as senior writer Jonathan Strickland. What so early in the podcast? Okay, yeah, 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:34.680 I had I had predetermined that I wasn't going to 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.320 make our classic joke. Right. Well, let's let's clue in 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.400 our our listeners to what we're talking about, and we'll 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:48.599 do that through a little listener mail. This listener mail 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.320 comes from Christopher, and Christopher says, hey, guys, I was 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:53.280 mowing the lawn the other day when I thought I 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.240 would break the monotony and listen to my iPod. Then 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.360 I thought how I would need to crank up the 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.080 volume super high in order to hear anything over the 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.440 sound of lawnmower. I decided that this probably wasn't the 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.280 best idea and went on mowing the lawn in complete boredom. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.840 That got me wondering how do earbuds affect a person's hearing? 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.360 I know it can't be healthy to listen through earbuds 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.600 at a volume level where someone across the room can 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.000 tell which A C D C song you're listening to, 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.840 But I'm sure earbuds will still have a negative impact 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.040 at lower levels. How do I know what a safe 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.240 listening level is? What, if anything, our company is doing 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:32.640 about this? Thanks a much, Christopher Chris So obviously my 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.160 joke at the beginning was a joke in poor taste 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:41.480 about hearing loss which I actually have. What Yeah, nice, 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:43.800 I was putting it in context there, so and and 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.119 polite of course is a percussionist. Now, just a quick question, 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.880 do you do you actually have hearing loss? Not that 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:51.880 I'm aware of, But then again I've been I've been 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:56.080 practicing and actually performing with ear plugs in for years now, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.600 very very wise. And as a matter of fact, to 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.640 to Christopher's point, I mow the lawn of ear plugs 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:02.920 because I don't even the sound of the lawnmower by 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.800 itself without adding music or something else on top of it. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.519 You know, that's that's pretty loud. So that is Mr 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.160 Pillette's version of the rock and roll lifestyle. Yeah, if 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.600 it's more like the soft rock lifestyle. Nice nice, Well, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.720 Jonathan Colton has a song for you. Um, So I 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.399 was going to talk a little bit before we really 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.639 get into the whole earbuds thing. Yeah, I'm gonna talk 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.040 a little bit about how hearing works. Oh, that's a 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.040 good idea, so that we can kind of get a 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.839 handle on why loud sound can be a problem. So 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:38.359 here's the general process that happens when we hear a sound. So, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.440 of course sound travels and waves right there, sounded as 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.960 created as a longitudinal wave and as it crashes into 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:51.200 the medium, they create a uh different kind of wave, right, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.639 you know, longitudinal waves right right, So you've got these 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.160 these waves. Essentially you have air molecules banging into each other, right, 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.919 and then those travel they get captured by your ear. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.080 Your ear is shaped in the way that is, it's 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.160 kind of like a funnel sort of funnels sound into 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:10.399 the canal of your ear um. The sound travels down 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.279 and it it makes contact with your your ear drum 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:18.799 right right, So this causes the ear jump to vibrate. Now, 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.840 the ear drum is connected to a little bone that 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.680 we call the hammer um. It's one of three tiny 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.079 bones that are in your middle ear. There's the hammer, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.840 the anvil, and the stirrup, all right, right, So the 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.360 hammer is connected to the anvile anivivals connect to the stirrup, 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.600 and the stirrup is connected to the cochlea, which is 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.880 the snail shaped element in your inner ear, all right. 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:47.680 So the ear drum vibrates. This in turn causes those 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.160 bones to vibrate and it kind of presses against the 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.840 little Think of it like a little window in the cochlea. Now, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.000 the cochlea is filled with fluid and actually has two 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.160 chambers separated by a membrane, and the membrane has a 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.080 tiny little hole in it which allows the fluid to 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.960 move back and forth between the two chambers. And inside 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.160 the cochlea are thousands and thousands of little cells with 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.520 tiny little hairs in them. Now, as the fluid vibrate 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.160 or moves through the cochlea, that causes those hairs to vibrate. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:22.279 These these vibrations get converted into electrical impulses which go 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.200 to your brain, and that's how you perceive sound. Your 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.000 brain receives that that those electrical impulses and says, ah, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.920 that's a dog barking. All right. So that's that's it's 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.280 kind of a it's actually a really fascinating process. I mean, 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.800 anything that involves that kind of level of biology to 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.800 me is fascinating. Um. And if you remember when we 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:48.240 did our Cyborgs podcast, we talked about cochlear implants and 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.400 cochlear implants bypassed the ear drum, bypass all of that. 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.719 They they have electrodes that actually go against the cochlea 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.440 so that it it simulates those electrical impulses that would 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.239 otherwise have been created by those little tiny hairs. Here's 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:07.080 the thing. Those cells inside the cochlea are both delicate 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.400 and they do not heal if you damage them. If 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:15.560 you damage those cells, if they they they stop working, 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.560 you start to lose hearing and there's no way to 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:24.440 get it back. Right now. That's a bummer. Yeah, So 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:26.960 I mean to put it mildly, I was trying to 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.599 be sort of something facetious, but yeah, I mean, that's 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.520 that's serious. It's something that you don't want to mess with, 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.120 right And I mean there's like twenty four thousand of 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.960 these cells in your in each cochlea, and like I said, 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.400 you know they are easily damaged. And once they're damaged, 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.520 that's it. And loud noises can do that. It's you know, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.680 you think about it. The vibrations of your urge from 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.600 are fairly small, but they're magnified by those three little 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.840 bones because they're they're pressing against a very very tiny 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.200 spot on the cochlea. So everything that happens to the 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.800 ear drum is magnified once you get down to the 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.599 cochlea level. So if you're playing really or listening to 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.280 really loud sounds, or you're subjected to really loud sounds, um, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.200 you're really given it a workout. So that's what can 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.119 actually cause damage to those cells. And we're not talking 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.920 about just using earbuds. This can be any kind of 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.440 loud sound, right, that could damage You're here, you don't 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.560 even have to have headphones on, I mean if you were. 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.000 That's why you see people who work at airports having 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.800 ear protection on at all times, because if you know 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.599 those jets make up, they make really loud noises. And 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.839 of course we we measure these noises and decibels and 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.480 uh and in general, once you get over a hundred decibels, 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:46.560 you're starting to get into the dangerous area. And it's 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.560 it's a matter of not just the intensity, but the 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.120 time that you spend listening to that sound. Right, So, 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.840 if you hear like a really loud noise, it's not 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.240 like you're going to necessarily suffer damage just from one 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.680 I slated incident. But if you're hearing a series of 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.039 loud noises, for example, an A C D C concert 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.080 for a nice long time, that's more likely to over 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.000 the course of the evening cause hearing loss. And it 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.880 may not be perceptible immediately thereafter. It just might mean 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.480 that you will experience more dramatic hearing loss faster than 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:26.720 you would otherwise. Yes, so let's get down to earbuds 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:32.440 now that we've covered those bases well at the answer 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.080 to the question that that Christopher post this is actually 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.760 fairly simple, depending on whom you ask um for me, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:45.760 I would have I would have asked Dean Garstecki, Northwestern University. Guy. Yes, 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.520 the professor in the chair in the rox Lyn and 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:53.920 Richard Pepper Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders. Audiologist is 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:58.800 what is one of his titles, that's the shorter one. Yes, anyway, 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.160 he deals with here and hearing loss and knows a 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:05.280 lot of people who do. Um and uh, which will 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.480 be important later. Um. And the thing is, he says, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.960 um frankly, he has what he calls a sixty sixty rule. 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.240 Have you I think you've seen this. I got mine 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.640 my information from a Science Daily article. Um. But yeah, 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:23.440 apparently he believes that you should listen to music on 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.120 a set of earbuds no more than sixty minutes a 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:32.960 day in twenty four hour periods, at no more than so, uh, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.360 that's pretty simple. Don't listen to your earbuds for more 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.560 than an hour a day at just a little bit 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.000 more than medium volume, right and uh. And he bases 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.440 this mainly as far as I can tell off of 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.920 a typical iPod player. And now the article that you 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.360 are referring to, I read the same one exactly. I 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.720 think it was written in around two thousand five. Yes, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.240 it was the iPod that was built in two thousand 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.640 five that they were talking about. Had a maximum volume 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.240 level of around a hundred thirty decibels, which is above 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.400 the threshold for what could cause hearing loss if you 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.760 listen to it for for any extended amount of time. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.360 So six of that would be presumably safer as long 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.479 as you listen to it for an hour or less. Um. 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.600 Here's here's another thing about earbuds. It's interesting. Earbuds can 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:25.400 actually boost up the the decibel level. Um, Like, if 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.720 you were to measure the decible level by just say, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.160 hooking up a regular pair of headphones and measuring it 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.720 that way, a pair of headphones that would actually go 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.560 over over your ears over the ear headphones or even 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.720 just the padded kind not necessarily over the ear, but 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.160 you know they don't go into the ears. Yes, on 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:45.160 your airphones headphones rather, um, those might come in at 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:46.840 let's say that you measure it and it comes in 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:51.960 about say eighty decibels, all right, earbuds can boost that 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.800 up up to uh up to nine decibels more than 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.360 the equivalent headphones. And part of that is because it's 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.880 closer to your your actual ear drum, so the sound 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.840 waves are traveling a shorter distance and they aren't dispersing 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.520 as much. They're there the intensity is higher. So the 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.040 eighty decible sound you would get out of a normal 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.520 pair of headphones is gonna jump up to eighty nine 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.400 decibles in earbuds. Now, if you're listening at one of 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.040 the higher levels, then you're you know, each you have 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.719 to remember that as you get closer to that threshold, 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.520 each time, each increment you go over the threshold is 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.720 it's not it's not a linear um uh progression of 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.240 how much more dangerous it is to your hearing. It's 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.839 it's greater than linear. It's not quite you know, lagarithmic, 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:41.080 but it's somewhere in between. You just wanted to say logarithmic. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:46.400 I bet often at any rate. So, yeah, so he's 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.520 got the sixty sixty rule. But you also have to remember, 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.320 if you're using earbuds, you need to make that um 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.320 take that into effect. And of course today you can 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.439 find MP three players that have kind of self imposed 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.240 limits on how loud they can get. Yes, some of 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:05.240 which you can work around. Right. Well, now, I was 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.559 going to get to to that in and but the 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.560 friends thing. The reason I brought that up was in 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.640 that article he cited a friend of his who worked 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.920 at Wichita State University. And apparently, what this friend will do, 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.040 another professor will walk across campus and and as this 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:29.400 friend is doing so, um, we'll find students wearing earbuds 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.360 and we'll ask, we'll stop them and ask them take 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.400 out the earbuds and we'll check to see how loud 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.960 they were playing. And in a lot of cases, the 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.520 students were listening to music at a hundred ten or 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.880 a hundred twenty deils. Yeah and uh and Osha recommends 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.440 that you don't listen to any uh, any sound level 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.520 greater than a hundred and ten decibels for more than 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.559 half half an hour a day. Right, So if you're 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.959 listening to music at a D twenty and chances are 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:58.520 you're listening to it for more than half an hour. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.480 Most of us, I think probably listen to you know, 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.760 I'd say half hour is a good minimum amount of time. Well, 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.760 that's the thing is, according again to this article, UM, 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.720 all volume at that level can cause hearing loss after 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.160 only an hour and fifteen minutes, which is a pretty 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.240 short period of time. When you think about it, that 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:27.120 that probably factors into the UM and UM you know, basically, uh, 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.920 the thing is you you there are factors that you 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.520 can and take into account, like the distance between your 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.320 ear and the source of the sound and the volume 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.200 of course, but one thing that the iPods and other 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:45.400 music players have today that say the early the Walkman 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.280 and UH sound players of the nine eighties and nine 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.080 ninies don't have is a much longer battery life, and 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.200 that's a problem because, um, they will last for hours 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.760 and hours, especially when they're new, and if you're listening 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:01.000 to music UH within ear bud in your ear at 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.440 that volume for an extended period of time, you're more 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.400 or less guaranteed to cause hearing loss. If nothing else, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.000 you have the ear fatigue, which you know, that's when 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:12.800 you when you take them out and you just feel 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.200 like like things just don't sound right to you anymore. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.920 Everything's kind of muffled. That's a good indication that you've 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.560 caused some some damage to your hearing. It may not 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:26.599 be it may not stay that severe for forever. It 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.040 may be that gradually you start to, you know, notice 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.080 that you've got your hearing back. But what it means 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.640 is that those cells, even if they aren't dead, are damaged, 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.200 and that over time they can get more damaged until 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:42.360 they stop working entirely. So it may not mean that 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.840 you lose a perceptible amount of hearing at that time, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.959 but it means that over the long run, you're gonna 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.880 lose your hearing. Faster than you would have otherwise. Um. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.480 And it has been going on since the the ear 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.319 the headphone phenomenon of portable music players, having your your 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.160 music with you anywhere and everywhere. Um. You know, the 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.200 research I I had seen basically said, you know, yes, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.120 there there have been more people losing their hearing before 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.480 you know, old age, when you might expect people to 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.120 start losing their hearing. Um, since people have been carrying 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.480 around their music with them and using portable music players. 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.720 So yeah, it's it's certainly an issue. The Center for 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:29.240 Disease Control and Prevention out here in Atlanta actually reported 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.600 that noise induced hearing loss. Uh, they found noise induced 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.840 hearing loss in nearly thirteen percent of Americans between six 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.920 and nineteen. So you think about that. I mean, yeah, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.000 hearing loss is usually one of those things that comes, 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.160 like you said, along with aging. But between the ages 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.800 of six and nineteen, you know, these are these are 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.240 when you're still growing. Yeah. Um, well maybe not nineteen, 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.520 I mean, but I was growing at nineteen. I was 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.600 just growing out. Uh. Also, I thought i'd ask you 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:02.800 you're familiar with the term tenitus. Oh yeah, Oh, I 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.320 was thinking of it from that Beatles song you know, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:10.640 the girl with Tenitus goes by anyway, So, um, so 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.320 about forty to fifty million Americans experienced some degree of that, 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:20.480 and uh, hyperacusis or I'm just gonna say hyperacusus because 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.120 I have no idea if that's the correct pronunciation, and 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.160 I don't even want to try a different one. Um. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:29.520 But yes, the tenetus or tenitus is that it's kind 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.240 of it's it's a it's a persistent sound that you 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:37.320 hear that's not generated by any external um source. So 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.200 usually it's like it's normally described as kind of a 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.720 high ringing noise, but it can also be a buzzing 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:47.520 or a worrying noise UM. And then there's uh, it's 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.280 it's one of those things where it can it can 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.640 actually interfere with your hearing of normal sounds, even though 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.480 there's no perceptible like someone who's staying next to you 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.760 is not going to hear it because it's all in 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.080 your in your here ing. Yeah. As a matter of fact, 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.760 a number of rock stars have come forward um to 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.600 talk to young people about listening to music to live 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:15.360 because they've said, you know what, listening to the loud 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.280 music like I have been every day, you know, with 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.680 these large amps behind me. Uh, well, damage your hearing 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.360 because it's damaged mine. And you know I'm thinking specifically, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.760 you know, people like Pete Townsend. Um you know who. 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.720 I think he actually suffered a burst ear drum due 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:37.480 to a certain Keith Moon and his exploding uh drum kit. Well, yes, however, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:44.120 I don't think a small explosives count in the earbud department. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:48.120 But yes, those are also bad for your ears. So 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.760 so here's a hint, be careful with earbuds and don't 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.320 play directly in front of Keith Moon. That second one 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.520 actually be pretty easy. One's pretty easy these days. Um, 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.520 thanks a lot, it's that Um okay, So I was 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.720 going to make Keith Moon jokes to a drummer, Yeah, 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.240 no kidding. Uh yeah, he's one of my favorites too. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.680 Um Joseph birds Song and Bruce Wagoner. Did you run 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.959 across these names? They are? There are two people who 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:17.119 filed suit against Apple, uh specifically against Apple, saying that 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.680 it's ear drugs. The earbuds were designed to be put 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.960 deep into your ear canal and uh is you know, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:28.280 are specifically going to be a problem. Um, you know 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.560 They also argue that there is no visual representation of 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.600 the volume. Of course there is when you're actually speaking 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.160 of somebody who's owned two different generations of iPods. Yes, 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.320 you can see roughly how loud it is as you're 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.560 you know, making a change to the volume or stopping 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.000 or pressing play. But you know, if you're not looking 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.399 at it, and you know, the screen goes blank. No, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.639 there's no longer a visual representation of volume, nor is 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:57.480 there sound isolation. And they were asking for for monetary damages, 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:03.520 not because they had actually lost hearing themselves, but basically, uh, 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:07.800 you know, to get Apple to improve safety, raise awareness. Um, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:12.000 it was better headphones. Right, It was more of a 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.200 a a way to try and convince Apple to change 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:19.520 there there processes and their systems so that people would 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.440 not suffer hearing damage down the road. Right, right, Well, 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.840 the uh, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, who has 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.000 come up many times in our podcast in California, UM 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.200 had affirmed a two thousand district court ruling about this 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.199 membread an article and Reuter's about this that basically the 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.080 planiffs didn't show that the use of the iPod poses 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:44.600 an unreasonable risk of noise induced hearing loss. Um and 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.359 uh basically said that they didn't really have because they 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.800 hadn't lost hearing themselves as a result of using the iPod, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.160 they didn't really have the legal footing to to bring 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.159 a case against Apple. But you know, if they have 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.840 raised awareness, um, you know, they I imagine they would 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.760 say that they have achieved some measure of success. Although 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:05.399 you know, certainly Apple is not the only one to 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.560 be packaging earbuds with its products. No, No, there are 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.520 plenty of independent earbuds out there that work with just 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.560 about any kind of device that has you know, essentially 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:18.280 a three and a half millimeter headphone jack Um and Uh, 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.480 I was gonna mention that, you know, it's really it's 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:25.360 not difficult to create a product that that would uh 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.360 minimize the risk of hearing loss. You just create one 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:34.040 that has a maximum output beneath the danger zone. Really, Um, 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:35.560 what should be bad because he wouldn't be able to 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.600 play that? Okay, you beat me to it, um, But 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.640 at any rate, Uh, I'm amazed. You know, we've had 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.360 what like three different three or four different music references, 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.560 oh four because of a c D c um at 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.440 any rate, the h it wouldn't be difficult to do that. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:57.840 But I think that the the outcry, weak as it 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:02.080 may be, from the hearing impaired, um, the outcry from 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:07.840 the they outcry, the outcry from from people who the 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.359 customers who are purchasing this and saying, you know, no 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.560 matter how loud I turn it up, it's not loud enough. Um. 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.640 I mean I know that. On my iPod. I actually 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:20.399 bypassed the the safety because there is a safety on 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.600 on Well. The reason I did was not because I 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.240 want to listen to music at a you know, an 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:30.440 ear drum blasting level. The problem is that sound files 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.760 aren't all recorded at the same volume level. So you 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.240 listen to two different sound files and you you haven't 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.639 even touched the volume, and one might be whisper quiet 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.320 and the other one might be blistering lee loud. Yes, 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.959 the way that people have recorded sound over the past, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.720 uh you know, a few decades has changed dramatically, especially 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.400 in the last years, and even the way that it's 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.399 converted into the MP three format can that can be 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.000 affected that way too, depending on on your on how 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.399 you're converting things. Oh you know what I wish I 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.479 had done research on and it just occurred to me 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:05.400 just now. I hate I usually have one of these 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.760 in every podcast, and and normally I keep it to 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.240 myself because I feel uh sad that I didn't think 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.640 of it. But uh, I had read somewhere that um 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:19.200 that basically because they are trying to improve the hearing 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.119 of certain frequencies in music on recordings they want you 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.800 to hear, UM basically enhance their accenting the parts that 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.680 they want you to hear. Let's say that they're accenting 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.439 the frequencies because they're you're using compression and other techniques 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.879 to make this work, make things seem louder. Um. I 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:39.560 had read somewhere that, uh that it may cause people 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.199 to lose the ability to hear in other frequencies as 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.480 a result of that, basically, that we won't be able 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.879 to hear anything between twenty and twenty thou hurts. Now. 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:49.600 I don't know if that's true. I wish I've looked 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:51.520 that up before this podcast, So don't write in and 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:53.679 say you didn't say whether it was true. I don't know. 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.199 I'm gonna want to go look it up, and I 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.000 might report back because that would be interesting to to know, 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.720 and and maybe something that they have to do a 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:02.960 lot of study on before they can really tell for sure. 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.919 But that's sort of like the vestigial toe thing. Like 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.600 I do remember hearing about audio engineers who complained that 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:13.960 we're losing a lot of the nuance of of music. 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:15.679 We're losing a lot of the the high highs and 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.960 low lows and and the subtle stuff, and everything is 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.399 just becoming equally loud, which is also why you can 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.840 suffer your fatigue as you listen to music, because it's 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.680 all being blasted at you at the same intensity. There's 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:30.719 no variation. And then you have, for example, headphones that 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.680 limit you to say twenty to twenty hurts, and then 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.720 you know all the things that theoretically you can't hear, 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:41.800 but you sort of feel more than here, Um, you don't. 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:43.720 We really don't get that sort of an experience like 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:45.760 you would say, if you were at a live concert 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.920 and listening to it in in person. So it's it's 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:51.919 really kind of fascinating. We think about the science of 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.720