1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,880
Speaker 1: today's best minds and the latest you gove Economist Poul

4
00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,360
Speaker 1: found that forty five percent respondents filled Trump had been

5
00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: not at all or not very transparent about his health.

6
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today, the

7
00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: Think Like an Economist podcast. Justin Wolfers gets us up

8
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 1: to date on where we are with the stupid tariff saga.

9
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:35,639
Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to can't Win Victory Funds Kate Compton

10
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,760
Speaker 1: Barr about how running candidates who can't win could help

11
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:41,720
Speaker 1: DEM's win.

12
00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 2: But first the news.

13
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 3: My let me tell you Doge it was just so

14
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 3: effective at hitting its two trillion dollar goal and then

15
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,160
Speaker 3: the one trillion dollar goal that they pushed back to that.

16
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 3: Now Trump needs help from Congress to help with nine

17
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 3: point four billion and Doge cuts.

18
00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of my favorite stupid stories because

19
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 1: it's so stupid. So the White House is planning to

20
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,560
Speaker 1: send a nine point four billion dollar recisions package to

21
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 1: Congress next Tuesday, giving lawmakers the opportunity to codify some

22
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,520
Speaker 1: of the potential cuts identified by Dog. Now let us

23
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,959
Speaker 1: just think about this for a minute, Doge came in

24
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: took power away from Congress. Was like, Congress, we know

25
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,319
Speaker 1: you're supposed to have the power of the purse, but

26
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 1: now Elon gets the power of the purse because he

27
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,960
Speaker 1: gave a lot of money in Trump. Now Elon is

28
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 1: either out or pretending to be out.

29
00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,839
Speaker 2: He is either. We don't really know what.

30
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 1: The truth is, but either way, these cuts which were

31
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,880
Speaker 1: identified by such people as big Balls. You'll remember Big

32
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 1: Balls with his big haircut. Is that nice cauliflower haircut?

33
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 1: That guy has found some cuts he'd like to make

34
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 1: in the federal government. And so now the administration is

35
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 1: going to Congress to get help from them, castrating them.

36
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,760
Speaker 1: If you are a member of Congress, you have power,

37
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,080
Speaker 1: or at least you used to have power. Stop fucking

38
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 1: giving it away. Pretend to care about your job. These

39
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,640
Speaker 1: proposed cuts would trim one point one billion dollars, by

40
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,360
Speaker 1: the way, a rounding error from the Corporation of Public

41
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 1: Broadcasting eight point three billion, and foreign assets from USAID

42
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,520
Speaker 1: and Africa Development Foundation. So you're gonna USAID is like

43
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:34,680
Speaker 1: impoverished people who need malaria medicine. The statistics I have

44
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,760
Speaker 1: read three million people a year will die from these cuts.

45
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 1: The USA cuts, you know, they won't be able to

46
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,040
Speaker 1: get food, they won't be able to get medicine, they

47
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 1: won't get all soft power from America will evaporate. China

48
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,239
Speaker 1: will eat our lunch. Most of NPR and PBS's money

49
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: comes from non government sources, but the corporation allocates about

50
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,639
Speaker 1: five hundred and thirty five million in federal funds annually

51
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 1: to them.

52
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 2: This is a rounding error.

53
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,520
Speaker 1: It is a banishingly small amount of money in the

54
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:11,120
Speaker 1: federal government, but it is because Trump World ideologically wants

55
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 1: to fuck over the mainstream media, wants to just make

56
00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 1: life miserable for everyone. The Office of Management and Budget

57
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,799
Speaker 1: has identified foreign eight grants that is convinced will bolster

58
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 1: its case for cutting relief for USAID. They're going to

59
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,840
Speaker 1: cut President's Emergency Plan for AIDS relief. This is a

60
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: bush legacy thing. PEP far AIDS relief prevention really important.

61
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 2: Donald Trump going to get rid of it.

62
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 3: So, speaking of getting rid of things, he's going to

63
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 3: cut aid for state unemployment systems, which that seems like

64
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 3: a really, really, really bad way to keep people from

65
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,160
Speaker 3: slipping into homelessness after they get laid off. From many

66
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 3: of the stupid things that people are getting laid off

67
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 3: for today, like when paid a loan services and other

68
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 3: loan services layoff people for AI and then go oops,

69
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 3: we got to hire everyone back.

70
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I don't think any of us should be

71
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 1: surprised by any of this. A lot of it is

72
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 1: trying to make government less effective so people can get

73
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 1: less from it. I want to read this sentence because

74
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,360
Speaker 1: I think it's explained a lot. The White House is

75
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 1: terminating four hundred million in funds for states meant to

76
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 1: modernize their unemployment insurance systems. So remember when Trump and

77
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,679
Speaker 1: Elin were like, we're going to cut fraud, waste, and abuse,

78
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,000
Speaker 1: We're going to modernize systems. What they meant was, we're

79
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,919
Speaker 1: going to make it harder for you to get this

80
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,479
Speaker 1: stuff that the federal government has been giving you. And

81
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,919
Speaker 1: this great example of that. These systems needed to be

82
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,040
Speaker 1: reshored during the pandemic because there was so much unemployment

83
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,159
Speaker 1: and that led to a lot of fraud and a

84
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,720
Speaker 1: lot of delays for beneficiaries. You got to update these systems.

85
00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: This is how we've gotten a lot of our problems.

86
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 1: Updating system saves money, right, because it spots fraud, it

87
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,000
Speaker 1: ends waste and abuse.

88
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 2: These are the things.

89
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,920
Speaker 1: This is what Elon was saying he was actually doing,

90
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,320
Speaker 1: and now they're preventing it from happening. So it just

91
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,240
Speaker 1: shows that so much of what Trump World said it

92
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 1: was doing wasn't real. So much of these things were

93
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:29,200
Speaker 1: just not true. It's projection, it's lying, it's gaslighting, but

94
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,200
Speaker 1: it's fundamentally Project twenty twenty five. It's fundamentally saying we

95
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,880
Speaker 1: are going to make the government work less well, so

96
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,040
Speaker 1: people believe us in the federal government, so we can

97
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 1: grip down the federal government to the studs and cut

98
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,279
Speaker 1: taxes for very rich people.

99
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:46,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

100
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,720
Speaker 3: So, Maia, when I was reading this earlier, I was

101
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 3: wondering if I was reading The Handmaiden's Tail times, since

102
00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 3: that's what this reads like. The Big Beautiful Bill treats

103
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 3: single parents differently, because as we know, there's many people

104
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 3: inside twenty twenty five who want to punish single parents

105
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,600
Speaker 3: for apparently not staying in terrible marriages.

106
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 1: So one of the things that we keep seeing in

107
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,280
Speaker 1: Trump administration, behind the sort of ethos behind a lot

108
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,919
Speaker 1: of these Project twenty twenty five theories, is that there

109
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,160
Speaker 1: are these sort of moral components, these ways in which

110
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 1: they think that they can de incentivize things by making

111
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 1: it harder to get them, so de incentivize people from

112
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 1: losing jobs. I actually think they don't really care what

113
00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,599
Speaker 1: happens to people. But this is one of these things.

114
00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,480
Speaker 1: So again, the thing that Democrats should be screaming about

115
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: and are bafflingly not is that they want to put

116
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 1: in something that means that if you have a child

117
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 1: over the age of seven, you must work eighty hours

118
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,839
Speaker 1: a month in order to qualify for SNAP benefits.

119
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 2: So it used to.

120
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: Be that if you had a child under seventeen, you could,

121
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: you didn't need to work.

122
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 2: There was no work requirement for SNAP.

123
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 1: This is food okay, food stand If you are staying

124
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 1: at home with your child, you can get food simps.

125
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 1: But now if your kid is over the age of seven,

126
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:07,880
Speaker 1: they have to be on their own. You have to

127
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,280
Speaker 1: figure out childcare so you can work eighty hours a

128
00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 1: month in order to qualify for SNAP benefits.

129
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 2: Again, this is the cruelty, is the point.

130
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 1: They don't want people who need SNAP to have children, right,

131
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean that's what those those and again like this

132
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,040
Speaker 1: is not a ton of money, right, Like they're growing

133
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 1: the you know the what the Pentagon is getting a

134
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 1: trillion dollars. I mean, this is not about saving money.

135
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 1: And even the Big Beautiful Bill in fact grows the

136
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,600
Speaker 1: deficit three point seven trillion dollars. So this is not

137
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 1: about saving money. This is about just complete and utter

138
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,360
Speaker 1: it's just yeah, the conservative wish casting of influencing behavior

139
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,520
Speaker 1: among citizens that has gone on for forty years now,

140
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,840
Speaker 1: of stupidity and failed policy.

141
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just all the worst of everyone.

142
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 3: So we've talked about a lot of the ills of

143
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 3: the Big Beautiful Bill, which seems ironically named at best.

144
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 3: It looks like Senate Democrats actually have a tool to

145
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 3: stop it. Now, wonder if they will.

146
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 4: What do you think?

147
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 1: So this I think is important just to in case

148
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 1: you haven't been to explain this. The Big Beautiful Bill

149
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 1: will be passed under reconciliation. Reconciliation is controlled by the

150
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 1: Senate parliamentarian. There are certain things, and you'll remember this

151
00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,480
Speaker 1: from the Biden administration, that can go in reconciliation, and

152
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 1: there are certain things that the parliamentarian rules that are

153
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 1: not okay to go in reconciliation. For example, reconciliation is

154
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be about budget and not about say he

155
00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:45,319
Speaker 1: trying to limit judicial power, which the Republicans did.

156
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 2: Sneak in there.

157
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 1: Right, there's something in there about limiting judges power to

158
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 1: control the administration for the larger orders. So again the

159
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,560
Speaker 1: parliamentarian should rule, because you'll remember in twenty twenty the

160
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 1: parliamentarian world. That's certain things right. For example, Democrats had

161
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,479
Speaker 1: things they wanted to put in that bill, the parliamentarian

162
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,000
Speaker 1: rule that they were against parliamentary procedure. We'll see what

163
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 1: happens here, but for sure, one of the things in

164
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,560
Speaker 1: here is that the parliamentarian said that they could not

165
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 1: nullify the Environmental Protection Action waiver allowing California to set

166
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,640
Speaker 1: its own air policy standards on vehicles. They were given

167
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,840
Speaker 1: this authority for a cleanout in nineteen seventy, so the

168
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 1: parliamentarian said they could not change it. While Republicans, I

169
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: know you're going to be shocked to hear this, they

170
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,000
Speaker 1: decided that they would overrule it. So now California has

171
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: a chance. And by the way, I would think this

172
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,200
Speaker 1: piece really opens the door to that. There are a

173
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 1: lot of chances that Democrats have here to the parliamentarian.

174
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: If the parliamentarian signs off on a lot of stuff,

175
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 1: it will be unprecedentedly crazy. My guess is that a

176
00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,080
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff she's going to be like, no

177
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,440
Speaker 1: fucking why. And once she starts saying no way, I

178
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,080
Speaker 1: think that there is going to be that There's quite

179
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,920
Speaker 1: a lot that can fall by the wayside. I think

180
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,880
Speaker 1: that we're going to see more of that, and if

181
00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 1: Democrats are smart. I mean again, I don't know what

182
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,679
Speaker 1: Democrats are going to do because they had not at

183
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 1: this moment been.

184
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 2: Covering themselves with glory.

185
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 1: But I hope that they will use this to push

186
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,840
Speaker 1: Justin Wolfer is a host of You Think Like an

187
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,439
Speaker 1: Economist podcast and a professor at the University of Michigan.

188
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, Justin.

189
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 4: Wolfers Fast Politics and Fast Economics.

190
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,600
Speaker 2: That's right, speak very quickly.

191
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 5: Let's talk about where we are at this moment.

192
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,679
Speaker 1: Fifty percent tariffs on the EU No wait, just kidding, No,

193
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,319
Speaker 1: they don't start till July. Is it undermining Donald Trump's

194
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,960
Speaker 1: own authority to be back and forth on something so major?

195
00:10:54,400 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 4: I think the question might actually be leading the witness. Nah,

196
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,800
Speaker 4: there are complicated times. I look, I'm coming on your

197
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,920
Speaker 4: show right now as professor of economics. And I think

198
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 4: the best thing that I can give your audience is

199
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 4: the advice that nasal breathing can help calm you down.

200
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 4: And maybe we should just do a little bit of

201
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:21,960
Speaker 4: that meditation.

202
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,760
Speaker 2: Then, right now, talk us through where we are.

203
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:25,280
Speaker 5: Right now?

204
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,680
Speaker 2: Are we in a pause in the trade war?

205
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,680
Speaker 4: That's what Russ said to Rachel.

206
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 2: Right, are we in a pause in the trade war?

207
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,760
Speaker 4: No, now we're in multimar from multipolar. I don't know

208
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:46,360
Speaker 4: what multipolar means. It sounds fancy, multi front. Yeah, trade war. Look,

209
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,120
Speaker 4: it's funny. Someone told me how to d They said,

210
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 4: you know, justin you're really funny. I know this is

211
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 4: about the economy, not about me, but I'm getting somewhere.

212
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:55,680
Speaker 2: I'll take it.

213
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,760
Speaker 4: And I'm like, no, I'm not funny, but jeez, the

214
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,800
Speaker 4: world is giving us some cial right now.

215
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

216
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 4: So it turns out if you just literally describe what's happening,

217
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,080
Speaker 4: people find it really funny when they're not crying. So

218
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 4: let me do that. The President on April second, declared

219
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,559
Speaker 4: Liberation Day. The American economy would be fixed. He was

220
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,640
Speaker 4: going to use his favorite tool, tariffs. Tariffs were going

221
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,840
Speaker 4: to do a lot of things they were going to

222
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,400
Speaker 4: get rid of fentanyl, illegal immigration, secure national security, bring

223
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,480
Speaker 4: manufacturing jobs home, raised revenue, allowed tax cuts for the rich,

224
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,559
Speaker 4: and balance bilateral trade deficits. I think some other things,

225
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 4: qre toe fungus. So he announces that on April second,

226
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,160
Speaker 4: April ninth, markets have freaked out. Everyone has called the

227
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 4: White House and said, don't do this. You're destroying the

228
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,200
Speaker 4: American economy. Rather than the media was wrong in the

229
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 4: President Revers's course and says, I was just kidding. I

230
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,880
Speaker 4: didn't actually want tariffs. What I wanted was negotiating power

231
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 4: the deal out of the deal right right exactly the

232
00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,560
Speaker 4: partly incoherent tariffs he took off, declared a NY pause,

233
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 4: kept ten percent tariffs on every country around the world,

234
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,360
Speaker 4: and said we're going to make deals. A couple of

235
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 4: weeks later said in an interview, I've now made two

236
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 4: hundred deals. The Treasury Secretary reported, in fact that he

237
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 4: meant sub deals, not deals a new word. They reported

238
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 4: that they were already had been called by dozens and

239
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 4: later more than dozens of countries. They said they were

240
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 4: making trade deals left, right and center, and they already

241
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 4: made a dozen or more. But in Navarro says they

242
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,440
Speaker 4: were going to make ninety deals in ninety days. A

243
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 4: typical trade deals, by the way, from a fully staffed,

244
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 4: coherent White House, takes two years from one country. We

245
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 4: have one hundred and ninety two trading partners, so Navara says,

246
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 4: in ninety days later, on about halfway through the ninety

247
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 4: day pause, people start asking about thirty days into this

248
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,559
Speaker 4: ninety day paus and they have to get ninety one

249
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 4: a day done. And we're currently batting zero, which is

250
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:59,520
Speaker 4: a very low test score, low batting average. We're getting zero,

251
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,880
Speaker 4: and so people get answer and they're like, hey, where's

252
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 4: the deals man. So the next day, the White House

253
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,160
Speaker 4: announces a trade deal with Britain. In a subsequent press conference,

254
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,719
Speaker 4: the British Prime Minister, when asked did you expect to

255
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,640
Speaker 4: be announcing a trade deal today, said no. I was

256
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 4: called halfway through the Arsenal football game. So that says

257
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,640
Speaker 4: literally the night before someone from America called and said

258
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,240
Speaker 4: we're in the middle of something, but we now need

259
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 4: to announce tomorrow. So they announced a lot of pomp

260
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 4: and ceremony. The President declared it the greatest trade deal

261
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 4: ever made. You read the document, which wasn't released that day.

262
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 4: I was released the next day. The document ends with

263
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 4: both sides acknowledged that this is not illegally binding agreement.

264
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 4: So at that point where now zero trade deals. The

265
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 4: Trump does not call president. She makes it very clear.

266
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 4: He didn't call president. She President. She makes it clear

267
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 4: he didn't call Trump. It's somehow miraculously they communicated. There

268
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 4: was a meeting in Geneva. The Treasury Secretary went over

269
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 4: and at the end they declared a trade deal. What

270
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 4: you actually saw was they had incredibly high tariffs on

271
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 4: each other, prohibitively high. One hundred and forty five percent

272
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 4: is what we had on China. They had under twenty

273
00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,400
Speaker 4: five percent on us. They both said, this is point.

274
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 4: Let's let's let's move it back down. They did you

275
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 4: read the agreement? The agreement. The deal is the United

276
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 4: States and China agrees to have mechanisms by which we

277
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:10,840
Speaker 4: can talk in the future.

278
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 2: Right, but that's not a deal.

279
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,920
Speaker 4: Okay, so we still move forward. Navarro is still saying

280
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 4: we're ninety deals in ninety days. Time moves on, and

281
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 4: then suddenly Trump discovers this is not a joke. He

282
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,080
Speaker 4: discovers that if you try to make ninety deals, ninety

283
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 4: countries will try and call you at the same time,

284
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 4: and metaphorically, the White House switchboard gets jammed, right, So

285
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,560
Speaker 4: he says, well, actually, we're not going to have ninety

286
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 4: deals in ninety days. Some of these deals, we're just

287
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,040
Speaker 4: going to send them a letter.

288
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:39,040
Speaker 5: Right now.

289
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,480
Speaker 4: Moly, I'm in a relationship, and when Betsy and I

290
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,920
Speaker 4: want to organize our lives together, we sit down and

291
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 4: meet and we talk about it, and there's give and take,

292
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:48,560
Speaker 4: and I say what I want and she says which

293
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 4: she needs. But if I instead just said, Betsy, I'm

294
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 4: going to send you a letter. Whatever it is that

295
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 4: Betsy and I trade back and forward would no longer

296
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 4: be traded. That's not a deal. So the new deal

297
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 4: is that we're going to send everyone a letter. Fair enough,

298
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 4: except they're going to make deals now with the eighteen

299
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,640
Speaker 4: biggest trading partners, which becomes very complicated because Australia starts

300
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 4: calling me and they say a wee eighteenth or nineteenth

301
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 4: It depends which table you look up right, no one knows,

302
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 4: and then I know I'm going on. But this is

303
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 4: just no.

304
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 2: This is where we need to get caught out on

305
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 2: the back for us.

306
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and okay, so we're still at no trade deals.

307
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 4: And in the midst of all this, the President says,

308
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 4: and I kid you not, this is the craziest thing.

309
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 4: The President says, the European Union and not negotiating in

310
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 4: good faith.

311
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, why what's the driver on that?

312
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 4: Honestly, the Europeans take trade seriously and they want grown

313
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 4: up talks, and they are hard to deal with. I mean,

314
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 4: someone who's printch for crying out loud, but I mean,

315
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 4: I just want you to understand the context of this. Right,

316
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 4: He's failed to get anything done with anyone. And in

317
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 4: the middle of the pause, and it's literally a pause,

318
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 4: it's pause talk, July nine says, well, they're not even

319
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 4: doing anything good faith, to which I believe the Europeans

320
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 4: are entitled to the old response. I thought we were

321
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,639
Speaker 4: on a pause, and so he says, they're not acting

322
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 4: in good faith. So I am going to raise tariffs

323
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,159
Speaker 4: on the European Union to fifty percent. He did that

324
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 4: last Friday, to be clear, because it's a high wage

325
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,399
Speaker 4: country set of countries, as the United States is, A

326
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,400
Speaker 4: fifty percent tariff effectively means stop the boats. It's an embargo.

327
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,360
Speaker 4: Nothing's coming in I also want to impress upon people

328
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 4: of steaks.

329
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:22,959
Speaker 1: Here.

330
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 4: You might be thinking, oh, well, if liberals are going

331
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 4: to have to do without their French wine, you'll have

332
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 4: to drink Spanish wine like no, no, even Spanish, boy,

333
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 4: You'll have to drink Argentinian, although I would recommend Australian.

334
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 4: And maybe people felt good about your next New York

335
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 4: party having slightly less fancy wine. Malysian. That's how you

336
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:45,200
Speaker 4: spend your days, right, is it? I mean you don't.

337
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 1: I don't drink, so I don't have a I don't

338
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,440
Speaker 1: have a horse in this race. But I do understand

339
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 1: this is not just about wine and cheese. And I

340
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 1: hope you all in late exactly. Mulley's stealing all my

341
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 1: economics points.

342
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 4: So one of the things that's happened weeks is Molly

343
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 4: has graduated from political commentator to economic analyst. And I'm

344
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 4: not making fun of Molly. I'm proud, proud of my girl,

345
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,120
Speaker 4: am I let's say that.

346
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:16,720
Speaker 1: Yes, No, I mean I did write a lot about subprime.

347
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,920
Speaker 2: So I have had some but yes.

348
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 4: Oh I'm sorry.

349
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 2: No, No, listen if you want to.

350
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 1: It is different than subprime, and and you know these

351
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 1: are different things.

352
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 4: You know, and if you want to be a serious

353
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,639
Speaker 4: political analyst in the current moment, you do need to

354
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,120
Speaker 4: think about and understand the economics, which is why you've

355
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:41,959
Speaker 4: been doing your seduous sleep. What following, let's get back

356
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 4: to the story.

357
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 5: Let's get back.

358
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, you know, my therapist told me to

359
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 4: keep going. Okay, so what we get? So what do

360
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 4: we get from Europe? Actually the most important thing is

361
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 4: like precision machinery. So if you want to build a

362
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,399
Speaker 4: factory in America, if you want to get your stuff

363
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 4: packaged out the door. You know those big conveyor belts

364
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 4: that look so gleaming and sexy, most of them come

365
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 4: from Germany readily. So if you're halfway through building a

366
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 4: factory and you just found out the price of your

367
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 4: equipment if you buy it goes up fifty percent, you

368
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 4: might actually just stop building the factory, right President, We

369
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 4: get chemicals, we get pharmaceuticals. In fact, most of what

370
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 4: we get from Europe you would classify as inputs into

371
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 4: American production wine and cheese.

372
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:33,360
Speaker 2: So that's things like parts of cars, parts of things.

373
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 4: Electronics parts. This is how you sabotage the American industry.

374
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 4: That's all right, you might be upset about it. I

375
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 4: was on Friday, but don't worry. We got all the

376
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 4: way through to Monday before the president back down. And

377
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,120
Speaker 4: I think basically the European Union called and said, hey,

378
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 4: we're on a pause. Why do you think we can

379
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,440
Speaker 4: negotiate a trade deal in less than ninety days, given

380
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 4: that your entire trade team has been off doing all

381
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 4: sorts of other things instead. Yeah, So now the pause,

382
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 4: the ninety day pause that came into effect on April ninth,

383
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 4: that he then paused, So he paused the pause on Friday.

384
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 4: On Monday, he paused the pause on the pause, resuming

385
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 4: the original pause that paused July fourth, right, or the ninth.

386
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,120
Speaker 4: July fourth is when we enjoy freedom from tyranny and

387
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 4: we celebrate small government ironically, Yes that we will.

388
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 2: We celebrate lot steeped in irony.

389
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 4: Yes, we celebrate we move away from a single king.

390
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 2: Yes, towards a single king.

391
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 4: We shall celebrate it like no other. So anyway, the

392
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,719
Speaker 4: pause that was paused got unpaused, and so we're back

393
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 4: to the original pause, which means now that as of

394
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 4: July ninth, we'll learn what's happening with trade with the

395
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 4: European Union. Okay, now to rewind. Our trading situation with

396
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 4: the European Union is currently unknown until July ninth. Our

397
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 4: trade situation with Britain is currently unknown because we have

398
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 4: no agreement, but we've agreed to continue talking. Trading situation

399
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 4: in China is unknown because all we agreed is to

400
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 4: continue to keep talking. And there are one hundred and

401
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 4: eighty nine other countries around the world, none of whom

402
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 4: have made headlines, with the exception of course, of the

403
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 4: Herd mcdonaldet Islands, which the Trump administration subsequently discovered is

404
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 4: uninhabited and therefore they are unlikely to do a deal

405
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 4: with that particular set of penguins.

406
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: Right now, we have the highest tariffs ever since World

407
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 1: War Two.

408
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 4: I'd say since nineteen thirty four. It depends on the day.

409
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 2: In the nineteen twenties, the LTE nineteen twenty it's.

410
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 4: Just so god so the is I never did smoot,

411
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 4: so you could just trick. But I hear that a

412
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 4: lot of things happening background then, not the LEA tariffs,

413
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 4: the Depression era as smooth Haly tariffs, which a couple

414
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 4: of weeks ago, our tariff rates were higher than smoot Hay,

415
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 4: then they got lower. If the European unions at fifty percent,

416
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 4: it's hard to do math in my head might be

417
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 4: higher again. But actually, let me simplify it for our audience.

418
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 4: For an industrialized country, the standard tariff right is round

419
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 4: about one to two percent. The tariffreate that almost every country,

420
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 4: with a few small exceptions charges the United States is

421
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 4: about one to three percent. So if the United States

422
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 4: has an average tariff rate as of today, I'll remember

423
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 4: ten percent on the whole world, thirty percent on China,

424
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 4: twenty five percent on orders. It gets very, very complicated.

425
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 4: We have very large spreadsheets. I've got friends who are

426
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 4: maintaining all of this. But roughly speaking, the American tariff

427
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 4: rate is ten times higher than it was on January first,

428
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 4: ten times highed and similar countries, and ten times highed

429
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 4: in our trading partners. So this is, you know, when

430
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 4: you're not tarift from one hundred and forty five percent

431
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 4: down to thirty percent, as we do with China. That

432
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 4: sounds like a lot, but it's not. It's moving from

433
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 4: an embargo to lunacy, right.

434
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point in a bargo

435
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: to lunacy. So where are we now a China. I

436
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: thought we were down to ten percent with China.

437
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 4: We are so here, and I want to be very

438
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 4: careful with my language, and I want your listeners to

439
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 4: follow the same habit. So Molly didn't say, but many

440
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 4: others would say. They'd say, I thought we had a

441
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 4: thirty percent tariff on China and they have a ten

442
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 4: percent tariff on us. That gets the numbers right, but

443
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 4: it gets the words wrong. What you have is a

444
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 4: thirty percent tax on Americans who buy from China, right,

445
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 4: They have a ten percent tax on Chinese people who

446
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: buy from America. By the way, that thirty percent probably

447
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 4: hurts us a lot, right. So if you're doing any

448
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 4: sort of importing, and it's not just finished goods, remember

449
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 4: a lot of what we buy in fact from China

450
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 4: as equipment. If you're a tradesman, a lot of your

451
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 4: tools might come from China, You're going to be charged

452
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 4: a thirty percent up charge order. The point what I

453
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 4: want you to realize is that in every other country

454
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 4: around the world, if you want to build a factory

455
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 4: and buy Chinese made equipment for that factory, you can

456
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 4: do so without a thirty percent up charge. The only

457
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 4: country that gets this thirty percent up charge is the

458
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 4: United States, and that might make you really mad. You

459
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 4: might be really mad at China. Why is China charging

460
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 4: me a thirty percent up charge? It's not that's not Beijing,

461
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 4: that's Washington, right right right. In addition, Beijing is taxing

462
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 4: Chinese people who buy from the United States. That's going

463
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 4: to lead on balance some number of purchases, particularly of

464
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 4: agricultural goods and commodities. Why would you pay more to

465
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 4: buy from an American They're going to purchase from elsewhere.

466
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 4: So that's what's going to hurt, particularly the farmers. Basically,

467
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 4: they're going to have to cut their prices in order

468
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 4: to sell their goods.

469
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: Farmers are going to have to cut their prices in

470
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: order to sell their goods.

471
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 4: Well, if we've got a thirty percent tariff from China,

472
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 4: if you were trying to sell stuff to China before,

473
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 4: the Chinese are not going to pay thirty percent extra

474
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 4: for American so beans. They'll buy their so ebens from

475
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 4: someone else.

476
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: But there aren't huge There aren't huge tech, there aren't

477
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: huge margins with farming.

478
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 4: There's not huge margins on lots of things.

479
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 5: Yes.

480
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 4: So, by the way, huge margins. I know you want

481
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 4: to talk about farmers, but you know what has high

482
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 4: paying jobs, that has really fat margins, and that you

483
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 4: don't have to walk out in your field and do

484
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 4: backbreaking work and when you're not at the mercy of

485
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 4: the weather.

486
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

487
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 4: Education. I am one of America's great exporters. I know

488
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 4: I don't farmer, I don't even sound like an American,

489
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 4: but I have students come from all around the world

490
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 4: who want to fly into the University of Michigan to

491
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 4: do exactly what we're doing right now. Molly, talk economics

492
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 4: together for long, baby, Right, I'm not allowed to export.

493
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 4: It's one of the few goods we're in order to Normally,

494
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 4: when we export, we send the goods abroad. When we

495
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 4: export services. You come into America, you get the service,

496
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 4: you leave, but you're leedy cash behind. They're not letting

497
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 4: them in the country. You're don't let them in. They

498
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 4: they're not going to send their checks. If they're not

499
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,479
Speaker 4: sending their checks, then there's going to be I know,

500
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 4: I get it. No one likes the feed liberals and

501
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 4: higher education and indoctrination and all of that, but actually

502
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 4: we are the future. The question for your listeners is

503
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 4: do you want your kids to grow up and work

504
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 4: in a factory that was created because of Trump's tariffs

505
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 4: or would you rather them have the sort of job

506
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 4: that I am so privileged to have where I get

507
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 4: to wake up and read and talk to interesting people

508
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 4: and educate and I get paid more and your kids

509
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 4: will get paid more if we grow the higher education sector.

510
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 4: And so just the very direct since my industry is

511
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 4: directly under threat, the set of jobs that surround that industry,

512
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 4: the people who work for the University of Michigan and

513
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 4: universities across the country, and that's before we get into

514
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 4: the rest of everything else that higher education brings to

515
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 4: our lives. Just so that I put a little ad

516
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 4: in for my industry, mate.

517
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: I wonder it would just see so much back battling

518
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: with the tariffs, which I think is actually thank God

519
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: for that, remember, because there were weeks and weeks where

520
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: he wouldn't back battle. But I wonder again, like, you

521
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: can't predict the future, but you can sort of read

522
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: the past. So, uh, what do you think what would

523
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: a good resolution of this problem look like? And what

524
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: would a sort of trumpy resolution of this problem look like.

525
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 4: Okay, let me start on backpedaling. Liberals have taken particular

526
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 4: delight that the president takes in a super mucho stance

527
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: and then a week later backs off. This time it

528
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 4: was three days later, but you know sometimes at lasts

529
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 4: even more days than that. I don't think they should. So,

530
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 4: first of all, realize the what do you The things

531
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 4: he's backed off on are the profoundly insane, like the

532
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 4: truly fruit loopy. So the April two tariffs that he

533
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 4: called reciprocal tariffs, where he was putting a fifty percent

534
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 4: tariff on Lsto because he thought Lesotho was somehow must

535
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: be protecting. It's the industries because they don't buy much

536
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 4: from us, but we buy a lot of diamonds from them.

537
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 4: Understand the insane of that that he had a reciprocal

538
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 4: tariff on Korea, a country with which we actually have

539
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 4: a free trade agreement. So the word reciprocal was a lie.

540
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: The level of the tariffs was unconscious, not only unconscionable

541
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 4: and uneconomic, but unmoored from any sense of reality. And

542
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 4: then that's what's currently on a pause. Okay, So that

543
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 4: was literally the worst trade decision of my lifetime, he paused.

544
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 4: The good thing about the president is if you thought

545
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 4: that was the worst thing of your lifetime, just wait

546
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 4: two weeks. And then we got one hundred and forty

547
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 4: five percent tariff on China, which is among the top

548
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 4: two worst trade decisions of my lifetime. That we got

549
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 4: that back down to thirty percent, And then I am

550
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: sure this is only the third worst trade decision of

551
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 4: my lifetime, the fifty percent tariff on the European Union,

552
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 4: which he then knocked back down to ten percent until

553
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 4: July ninth. Right, what relief does several weeks of low

554
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 4: word tariffs. But this is your point earlier, Molly, the

555
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 4: average tariff right around the world is probably going to

556
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: be about seventeen eighteen nineteen percent. The average tariff right

557
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 4: for an industrialized country is two percent. The idea that

558
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 4: Trump always backs down isn't quite right, right, because they're

559
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 4: still terrible worst excesses. The unimaginably stupid he gets talked

560
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: out off right, the merely profoundly mistaken and intensely damaging

561
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 4: he sticks with. And that's where we're at. So, Molly,

562
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 4: is you know I want to let everyone in on

563
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 4: the joke, because apparently it's funny Molly's referring to the

564
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: taco trade. Trump always chickens out, so one everyone likes

565
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 4: tacos to The most recent chickening out was on a Tuesday,

566
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 4: So this is all terrific. But notice that Trump doesn't

567
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 4: always chicken out. He walked into the British negotiations and said,

568
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 4: the tariff is ten percent, even though you buy more

569
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: of our stuff than we buy of yours, and that

570
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 4: ten tariff is one hundred percent stuck. And that's where

571
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 4: we're still at very high tarot We're still at thirty

572
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 4: percent with China, We're at ten percent with every other

573
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 4: country around the world. Still this is an end higher

574
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 4: in some industries. So this remains an enormous and intentionally

575
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,719
Speaker 4: damaging set of tariffs. That wasn't answering the question that

576
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 4: was you picked up He always backtracks. Let's talk about

577
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: that as sort as sometimes does a bit, but let's

578
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: not overstate it because that makes it feel like there's

579
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 4: no damage. There's a lot of damage. Second, you said,

580
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 4: what does a good solution look like? This one's easy

581
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: and I've only really just gotten my head around it

582
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 4: because it's so simple. The right answer is for Congress

583
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 4: to do its job. The Constitution gives the power of

584
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 4: taris to Congress full stop. Past Congresses delegated authority emergency

585
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: powers to the president, and the President declares everything an emergency.

586
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 4: I'm incredibly hopeful, but I'm not a lawyer. I'm hopeful

587
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: that at some point all of this will be ruled

588
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 4: unconstitutional because in fact there's no emergency. But we don't

589
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 4: need to wait for the courts. Congress stops all of

590
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 4: this tomorrow if Congress wants to. So I want people

591
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 4: to hold onto that the madness of the Trump administration

592
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 4: is one hundred percent fully enabled by Congress. And if

593
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: you don't like it, call your congressman, and if you're

594
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 4: still unhappy, call him or her again, because this is

595
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: the greatest abrogation of responsibility I've seen, and it's infuriating.

596
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 4: So they can Why does Trump go with tariffs rather

597
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 4: than other things? Because he can? Yeah, the enabler there.

598
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 6: You know.

599
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 4: He can't just do what he wants on fiscal policy.

600
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 4: He can't on monetary policy, but in this he can,

601
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: and that's why the damage is being done. They gave

602
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 4: him the loaded gun and then they're surprised he's waving

603
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 4: it around. That's what good looks like. Okay, what's actually

604
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: going to happen? Oh no, I mean, as far as

605
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: I can tell, we're in one big soap opera. And

606
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: it's great because normally soap operas are about complicated emotions

607
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 4: that economists like me don't really understand, things like betrayal, jealousy.

608
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 4: But this one's all about trade deficits and tariffs. I mean,

609
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 4: I think it's a fabulous soap opera, just a shitty

610
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 4: economic policy.

611
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 5: You know.

612
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: The The analogy here is it's a totaler with the

613
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 4: remote control justin Wolfs. They get bored, they thump at it,

614
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: they change it, and that is American tariff policy justin Wolfers.

615
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 5: Thank you, Thank you.

616
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: Keith Compton Barr is the founder of Can't Win Victory Fund.

617
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 5: Welcome to Fast Politics, Kate.

618
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 6: Barr, Hi, Mollie, thank you for having me. I am

619
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 6: so excited.

620
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm excited to have you. I want you

621
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: to talk about how you got into this. I think

622
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: of you as a kind of your sort of how

623
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: you can win pundon.

624
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: Right a little bit. I'm a huge fan of losing

625
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: actual Oh.

626
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: So great, start with that that I think tracks with

627
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: their origin story, right, yes, so get us going there.

628
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 6: So, like most good things in life, all of this

629
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 6: started when I was drinking. I was standing in line

630
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 6: for a glass of wine at like a local festival

631
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 6: we have in my tiny town, and someone said, hey, Kate,

632
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 6: you want to run for state Senate. And it was

633
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 6: a joke because our state Senate maps had just come

634
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 6: out and they were horribly jerrymandered in our state senate

635
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 6: district was a real loser, and we kind of joked

636
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 6: around about what might happen to run a campaign that

637
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 6: was just radically transparent about what a total loss it

638
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 6: would be. And my background is in behavioral science and

639
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 6: in persuasive communication, and I couldn't let go of the

640
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 6: idea about using this as a way to bring jerrymandering

641
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 6: down to like real people level, get it out of

642
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 6: the political science sphere and into why should a voter

643
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 6: give a shit about their voting map? And so when

644
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 6: I was slightly more sober, frankly, it still seemed like

645
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 6: a good idea. And then my friend, who is now

646
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 6: a member of the Can't Win Victory Fund, we were

647
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 6: talking about it and she said the phrase clear eyes

648
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 6: fullhearts can't win, and I was just like, that has

649
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 6: to exist in the world.

650
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: I guess we are doing this and here we are.

651
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 5: So tell me what happened when you ran.

652
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

653
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 6: So I filed for office and announced my loss the

654
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 6: same day. I actually honestly think I could be kind

655
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 6: of an awesome candidate and a real district.

656
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: You know, I am a public school kid.

657
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 6: I went to University of North Carolina a couple of times.

658
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 6: I've been on town planning boards and nonprofit boards, and

659
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 6: I have like kids, I'm pto president, Like, there's a

660
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 6: lot of stuff I would want and my representative or senator.

661
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 6: And the campaign was to make the point that no

662
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 6: matter who you are as a candidate, your fate is

663
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 6: determined by how the math lines are drawn, and that

664
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 6: that's fundamental problem in our democracy. So I ran the

665
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 6: whole thing as a protest against jerrymandering. People call me

666
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 6: in the streets still Kate bar can't win, and all

667
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 6: of our shirt said things like loser, and it caught on.

668
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 6: We were not expecting that. I expected to go right

669
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 6: back to my day job after November fifth. I mean

670
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 6: I also expected a president Harris.

671
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 2: So you know what do I know.

672
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, alas falling into that fantasy for a moment, but

673
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 6: it like built and built. And then there was a

674
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 6: story that came out in the Washington Post in September,

675
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 6: and then I spent the next three weeks on like

676
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 6: national and international news, and we thought, wow, there's really

677
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 6: something here in this message. It's like cutting through during

678
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 6: a presidential election cycle, and we started thinking about what

679
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 6: it might look like to do this on a larger scale.

680
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 6: So November fifth, I lost, as predicted, but a couple

681
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 6: of important things also happened in my district. The bulk

682
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 6: of the district is made up by this one county,

683
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 6: Ayerdell County, and it is super red and it has

684
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 6: been read for a really long time, but it got

685
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 6: bluer and it was one of only eight counties in

686
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 6: our whole hundred county state that got bluer last cycle,

687
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 6: and that felt meaningful. You know, it's hard to know

688
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 6: what to attribute that to, but having a state Senate

689
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 6: candidate who like actually showed up for the voters in

690
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 6: that area couldn't hurt. We also saw that so my

691
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 6: district overlapped with a hyper competitive state house district, and

692
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 6: the candidate Beth Helfrich in that district won pretty handily,

693
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 6: frankly and broke the state House super majority, and all

694
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 6: credit to Beth for that, but helpful to have two

695
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 6: candidates who were actually out knocking doors on the ballot.

696
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 6: So it was like, let's see what could happen if

697
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 6: we grow this and try to make a path for

698
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 6: more people in these unwinnable seats to run, especially because

699
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 6: like we've been ignoring voters in those places for far

700
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 6: too long because the seats are unwinnable. And so maybe

701
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 6: you get a name on the ballot and it's like

702
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty out of one hundred and seventy

703
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 6: districts in our state qualify as unwinnable, and so that's

704
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty districts worth of people who aren't

705
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 6: being heard, who aren't having local politicians show up for them,

706
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,479
Speaker 6: and who fundamentally like don't have real representation and don't

707
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 6: have a real way to hold their leaders accountable.

708
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: Here's my hottest take, and again this comes from a

709
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: woman called Demand Aliment, who I'm sure you know, which

710
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: is that if you run a candidate and I guess

711
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: this is what you were saying too, if you run

712
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: a candidate, even if you lose, you win.

713
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 6: Absolutely. I think it matters how you run. And I

714
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 6: heard when Amanda was on she's talking a lot about

715
00:37:53,880 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 6: representation and the importance of having people who actually like

716
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 6: represent the district therein and the lack that and our legislatures.

717
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: At all levels of government. I think if you have

718
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: a candidate really.

719
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 6: Show up for voters and like, do the candidate things

720
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 6: like kiss the babies and go to the fairs and

721
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 6: knock on the doors, that is meaningful to people.

722
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 2: I also think the Democratic.

723
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 6: Party right now has a bit of a trust problem

724
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 6: where you know, like you've got Trump out there saying

725
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 6: whatever the fuck comes into his mind, but it seems

726
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 6: really authentic and honest because it feels unfiltered, and then

727
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 6: Democrats seem really scripted, not all of them obviously.

728
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: Yes, one hundred, yes, yes, yes, Okay, So let's talk

729
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: about this because I absolutely think this is true. Consultants,

730
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: all consultants, the consultant class has made Democrats way too

731
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: afraid of their own shadows and unwilling to say personal stuff.

732
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 5: Discuss yep.

733
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 6: And it's a amazing when you knock on somebody's door

734
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 6: and you are radically honest with them, and you're like,

735
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 6: I am running for state Senate and I am going

736
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 6: to lose. As soon as you say that, your credibility

737
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 6: with that person increases like one hundred percent, and the

738
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 6: thing you say next is so much more meaningful. So

739
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 6: I used that to basically knock doors for Alison Riggs.

740
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 6: I mean, I was knocking doors as a candidate, but

741
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 6: I was talking about me at the doors. I was

742
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 6: talking about Justice Riggs. Because the whole point is I'm

743
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 6: going to lose because our maps are drawn unfairly so

744
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 6: that politicians can preserve their power. If you want that

745
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 6: to be different, you have to vote for Justice Riggs.

746
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 6: That'll flip for twenty twenty six and it'll be If

747
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 6: you want that to be different, you have to vote

748
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 6: for Justice Earls. And in a state like out especially

749
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 6: where I mean we just saw Justice Riggs but win

750
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 6: by seven hundred and thirty four votes, like all of

751
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 6: that matters.

752
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And I mean I think that's such an

753
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: important point. There is a kind of trust situation, and

754
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: I do think part of what people liked about Trump, right,

755
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: and again I'm not here on Nobody in this podcast

756
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: is saying Trump is good in any elation to perform,

757
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: but the sort of fake honesty, the kind of feeling

758
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,439
Speaker 1: that you weren't just sitting there or hearing somebody read

759
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: a white paper.

760
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: Yes, or a teleprompter.

761
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 6: And when you know you're going to lose, a couple

762
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 6: of important things happen. One is that consultants don't care

763
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 6: about you, and so they go along. And the other

764
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 6: thing is you actually can't screw it up, so you

765
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 6: can say anything at all. And so I really see

766
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 6: these districts as opportunities for us to innovate our playbook,

767
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 6: because we can try anything. You're going to lose anyway,

768
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 6: So try some wacky shit and let's see what happens.

769
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 6: Maybe we learn something that helps us win somewhere else.

770
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: At minimum, you.

771
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 6: Have candidates who are running as their like authentic selves,

772
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 6: who are ready when we get fair maps in twenty thirty,

773
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 6: who have anson then who can run again to actually win,

774
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 6: but they haven't like wrecked their chances by trying to

775
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 6: tell people they can win for two or three ciples

776
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 6: when obviously they couldn't. Like voters aren't dumb. They in

777
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 6: these communities, they know who's gonna win in these elections

778
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 6: because they've been living that reality for so long. Most

779
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 6: of them have never had a politician come to their door.

780
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 6: And so if we show up for them consistently and

781
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 6: we are honest and authentic in how we do it,

782
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 6: I think we can make some pretty incredible inroads in

783
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 6: places that we just haven't. Also, it's cheap, Like my

784
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 6: Comson vote was like a dollar forty. That's insanely cheap,

785
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 6: and I didn't even need all that because no, you know,

786
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 6: there's just it's so easy to occupy the airspace because

787
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 6: there's no one competing for it.

788
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: Right.

789
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: It's not those It's not like one of those tiny

790
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 1: district where everybody is stuck, you know, a place where

791
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: the media market gets expensive despite the fact.

792
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 5: That it's small.

793
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could sort of talk us through

794
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: a case of sort of where you think the places

795
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: are where Democrats should be running people that they're not.

796
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I think we should be running people anywhere

797
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 6: we can get a great community candidate, So someone who

798
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 6: is already like a pillar of the community, ministers, like

799
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 6: Scout leaders, PTO parents, that kind of thing. In North

800
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 6: Carolina last cycle, we ran Democrats in one hundred and

801
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 6: sixty eight out of one hundred and seventy state legislative seats.

802
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 6: So we did a good job of running people, but

803
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 6: about a third of those folks were only names on

804
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 6: the ballot, and I truly don't know if that is

805
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 6: as useful as the effort it takes to recruit for

806
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 6: those spots. But if you have someone who's willing to run,

807
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 6: we should run absolutely everywhere. And I'm looking at like

808
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 6: South Carolina is another one where we need to be

809
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 6: doing this. Utah, Florida. I mean, they're thirteen. According to

810
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 6: the Princeton Jerrymandering Project, there are thirteen states that fail

811
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 6: their jerrymandering test, and frankly, three of those are Democratic

812
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 6: jerry manders. So both parties do it, and it's like

813
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 6: bullshit on both counts. And we need to be showing

814
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 6: up in all of those R plus fifteen districts with

815
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 6: kick ass candidates who can just say I'm not going

816
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 6: to win. I can't win. The lines are drawn so

817
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 6: that I can't win, and that actually makes it easier

818
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 6: for them to run because it's hard to come out

819
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,439
Speaker 6: as a Democrat in a super red place. But when

820
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 6: you come out saying like I'm fighting for the principle

821
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 6: of our democracy. I got so many maga handshakes. I

822
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 6: had to like bathe and hand sanitizer while I was

823
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 6: doing this, because they really get it. Everybody gets it

824
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 6: that it's about democracy, not trying to be like, you know,

825
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 6: take down their incumbent who has been there forever. You're

826
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 6: running against a system, and it just makes the path

827
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 6: a lot easier. You also don't have to fundraise a

828
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 6: ton and you can say literally anything you want, which

829
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 6: feels really good.

830
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: Like the idea here is that you should engage. So

831
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: I used to think that you shouldn't engage.

832
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: This is we can just let's just.

833
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 5: Talk about me.

834
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: I would like to thank you.

835
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: Since I'm so used to talking about myself at this moment.

836
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: I used to think you shouldn't go on spaces, you know,

837
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: like you shouldn't go on Bill Maher or Joe Rogan,

838
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: that you should just only go to places where you

839
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: agree with them or where you feel that they don't

840
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: espouse views you don't agree with or like or find

841
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: objectionable for any number of reasons, real or imagined. And

842
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: I have completely changed my tune on this. I now

843
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: think you should go everywhere and engage everyone. And part

844
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: of that is because like when you sit down with

845
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: someone who is maga and I have actually because I

846
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: have some friends who are.

847
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 5: Actually real die in the world.

848
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: You know people who think like Trump is shaking things up,

849
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: and they are people.

850
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they may.

851
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: Be wrong on any number of things, but they are people.

852
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: And I think what you're talking about with the jerrymanderin

853
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: is think the same phenomenon.

854
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 6: Yes, we need to be talking to each other, whether

855
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 6: it's you know, in real life or digitally human to human.

856
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 6: And I spent a lot of my career doing tailored communications,

857
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 6: which means, you know, maybe I need to get out

858
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 6: a message to someone or to a group of people

859
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 6: about why quitting smoking would be good. My background is

860
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 6: public health. Sorry to all the people who love smoking

861
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 6: in the world. And if you're not a pregnant person,

862
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 6: you don't need to hear about how cigarettes can harm

863
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 6: a fetus. And so we could develop algorithms that would

864
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 6: put content together like legos, so that each person would

865
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 6: see the content that was relevant to them, presented in

866
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 6: a way that we thought would be most likely to

867
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:17,479
Speaker 6: reach them. And we see that happening in the way

868
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 6: like in politics, you see people segmenting themselves like self segmenting,

869
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 6: self tailoring their content. And so if you only go

870
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 6: the places where people already agree with you, and that

871
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 6: includes running for office, if you're only running in districts

872
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 6: where you think you can win or know you can win,

873
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 6: you never grow. And so one of the fun things

874
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 6: that we do as we're raising money is it's a

875
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 6: very long story, but we're building AI.

876
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: Models that think like target voting groups.

877
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 6: And the first step in that is generating a huge

878
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 6: range of messages that we might show to that target

879
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 6: voting group. And so we go to people's houses and

880
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 6: they have parties, and we put up an example persona

881
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 6: of someone who voted for Trump that we would like

882
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 6: to convince to vote for Democrats in the future, and

883
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 6: the folks in that room work together to try to

884
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 6: come up with messages that they think would be effective

885
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 6: for that person. And you know what, message is never effective?

886
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 2: I told you so, right. It's never effective to say,

887
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: are you sorry now? And so we.

888
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 6: Start to build some empathy in the room for why

889
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 6: someone might have made that choice, and we generate this giant,

890
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 6: like unique list of messages that we can then go

891
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 6: test and use to train our AI models so that

892
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 6: in the future we can predict message performance less expensively

893
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 6: and more quickly. But it's also just like an interview

894
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 6: for all, So I do.

895
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 5: That i'd be doing anything with AI.

896
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 6: AI can't make the messages for what it's worth if

897
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 6: you ask it to make. It looks like some North

898
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 6: Korea would put out. I mean maybe that I don't know,

899
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 6: maybe we got to test some of that shit too,

900
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 6: because here we go down that it's pretty slope, right.

901
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: But the point I think is that there is quite

902
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity here for a number of getting

903
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: to people you might otherwise not get to.

904
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, and to learn how to best reach them. Like

905
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 6: I wake up in the nighttime and think, like, what

906
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 6: if we had said big money for small business instead

907
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 6: of opportunity economy.

908
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 5: Right, that would have been good.

909
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: I mean I probably wouldn't have done it.

910
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 6: But you know, no, tax on tips worked really well

911
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 6: for the Republicans.

912
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they're definitely not going to do that.

913
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 2: No hate bar. Thanks for coming on.

914
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 6: Mollie john Fast, thanks for having me.

915
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 4: No more.

916
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: Second, Jesse Cannon Smiley, we covered a report that said

917
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 3: that Pambondi is just a actor doing the spokesman job,

918
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 3: and that Steven Miller is running the ship on many,

919
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: many things. And now this latest report from Axios is

920
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 3: that Stephen Miller has told, in stern words to Christy

921
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 3: nom another person who's been accused of kaya just being

922
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: a spokesperson, that she better get to arrest and a

923
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 3: lot more people because he ain't having all these immigrants

924
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 3: running around the country causing chaos.

925
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: Look, first of all, there aren't even that many people

926
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: coming here anymore.

927
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: This is all to scare people.

928
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: This is all to make everyone unhappy, un scared, And

929
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: all Stephen Miller ever wanted to do was arrest immigrants.

930
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with reality. This is just

931
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: who he is.

932
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: Ice is already completely out of control, disappearing grad students,

933
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: Ignore these people, don't do this. Let's just be responsible

934
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: and good and not do this kind of bullshit because

935
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: it's terrible.

936
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 2: People are being hurt and hated.

937
00:49:58,760 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 5: That's it for.

938
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

939
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics

940
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

941
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

942
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.