WEBVTT - Rick Wilson & David A. Graham 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.280 today's best minds. And according to a new KFF Health 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:15.000 Tracker poll, about seven and ten adults that's seventy two 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.640 percent are worried about a significant reduction in federal funding 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.720 for Medicaid, which would lead to an increased share of 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.720 uninsured children and adults in the United States. That's all 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:31.640 hidden in the big, beautiful bullshit bill. We have such 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.320 a great show for you today. The Lincoln Project's own 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.240 Rick Wilson joins us to talk about Trump weaponizing the 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:40.839 National Guard against protesters. Then we'll talk to David A. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.720 Graham about his new book, The Project. How Project twenty 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.240 twenty five is Reshaping America. But first the news. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:53.240 Mai, So, David Hog callsed quite a stirred side the 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:58.680 DNC for wanting to not have people who die in 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.800 office constantly being we're sleeping open seats and diminishing our majority. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.280 And there's a weaked audio of DNC chair Ken Martin 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.039 basically saying that what David Hogg did there supposedly has 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.080 poisoned his enjoyment of the job, and he does not 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.280 want to be there anymore. This seems bad at a 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.160 time when we have our authoritarian presidents sending in the 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.919 National Guard to California and we really need an opposition party. 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:27.039 So here's the problem. Okay, the Democratic National Committee is 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.280 an impossible situation. You have a base that is furious, 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:39.080 largely agrees with David Hogg, wants democratic politicians really taking 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.560 a new playbook. Remember Democrats ran on the idea that 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.559 democracy was on the ballot. Trump is doing all sorts 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:51.560 of anti democratic things. They want, they're elected members of 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:56.760 Congress and senators to be absolutely pushing back in every 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.040 way they can. But if you're the chair of the 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.680 Democratic National Committee, you are trying to protect incumbents, right, 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.720 That's part of what they do, and also quell this 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.320 rage from the base. It's a very tough position. But 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.960 let me tell you, Ken Martin was put in this 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.720 job by state party chairs, so he has a relationship 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:26.120 with the democratic state parties. This means that he really 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.000 is a person who is involved in this sort of 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.440 democratic machine. If he's smart, he will figure out a 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:38.480 way to absorb the base's rage and channel that into 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.800 more better leadership. Because there's money to raise from that. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.959 The problem is if he is too connected to trying 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.880 to protect incumbents, that's going to be a real problem 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.400 for him. This is a very very very very bad 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.839 moment to be the DMC chair. That's just it. I mean, 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.520 is he the right man for the job. They don't 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.040 know enough about him. But the point is, and again 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:09.000 here is I think a real tell. Right here in 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.840 the recording, an emotional Martin describes being deeply frustrated by 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.840 the fallout over Hog, who has ignited a firestorm in 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.480 the party by vowing to spend twenty million in safe 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:24.359 blue primaries to oust incumbent democrats he believes are ineffective. Look, 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.200 I don't think you need to squash that necessarily, especially 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.920 because some of these Democrats are not effective. But the 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.360 reality is this is going to be a major, major, 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.880 super important midterm where we really need to focus on 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:44.160 Democrats winning back the House. So if that means primary 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.040 one or two very old members of Congress who are 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.720 not showing up for votes, that's one thing. But I 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:56.080 don't know, this is almost a situation where Martin's response 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.400 is kind of worse than the crime. And you got 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.840 to remember somebody's leaking this yep. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.560 And it was pretty funny because David Hogg did screenshots 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.400 showing that he did not return the reporter's requests for 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:08.920 this try. 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.360 To show it that it wasn't him. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.200 And then Malcolm Kenyada, who's also a part of the DNC, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:14.440 kind of called. 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.240 Bull other vice chair, yeah. 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.440 Called bullshit on it. So we have a lot of 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.520 drama where we really need to be united pushing this back. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:23.599 So this is concerning, but it's also a fight we 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:24.880 have to solve, right. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.280 It's clearly something we have to solve now. I do 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.760 want to say Malcolm Kenyata is pretty great and I'm 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.720 a little bit friendly with him, and he's quite smart. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.159 I have a lot of respect for him. 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:38.599 Agreed, and be honest with you. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.040 I like all involved, But yeah, I don't know Ken Martin, 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:43.600 but I like David too. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:44.080 Yes. 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.520 So the Washing Post has a report that says the 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.839 Trump administrations weighing how they cancel funding for California. We've 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.200 discussed the stupidity of this before, but for the listeners 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.640 who may have forgot, I think you have some very 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.440 succinct thoughts on how disastrous this would be for Trump 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:02.400 and his administration. 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.360 So fourth largest economy, you stop giving them money, they 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.839 stop giving you money. Literally, the best thing Donald Trump 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.680 could ever do to Gavin Newsom is say, I'm not 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.359 going to give you any more federal money. Because you 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.760 know who pays the most federal money. The fourth largest 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.760 economy in the world is California. So if you go 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.240 into a pissing match with someone who desperately wants to 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.960 be president, why there's no incentive for him not to 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.719 just escalate and escalate and escalate, and you stop getting 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.000 money federal money from California. The rest country's got a 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.880 big fucking problem. I think this is a disaster for 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.799 Trump is I want to add, this is so trumpy. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:49.000 They're looking for a reason to cut off the money, right, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.000 so they have the punishment but not the crime. As 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.640 I want to mention that in this article it talks 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.000 about how once Donald Trump is donely California, you know 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.200 who's coming for please tell me Main and you know 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:07.560 why because Maine has three trans athletes. Okay, I don't 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.440 know if it's three, maybe it's five, but I mean 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.680 it's some, you know, vanishingly small number. And I think 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.960 it's important to realize you cannot appease this man. If 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.960 you let him bully you, you lose, and you keep losing. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.160 And by the way, all weekend long, we saw more 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.600 and more universities joining Harvard. You know why, because they 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.160 see what's happening to Columbia. Just like those law firms 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.960 that bend in the need for Trump, those guys losing 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.680 clients because you know what happens when you bend the 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.479 need of Trump. Trump just takes takes takes, so you 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.640 cannot appease. And that's really something that the people at 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.120 ABC should be thinking about one hundred percent. 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.720 So I have a theory of the case. I'm curious 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.280 what you think of, which is that one of the 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.160 things that Democrats have missed an opportunity to run on 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.280 is that Republicans constantly make bills like these trans bills, 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.359 and now we have bills banning chemtrails that don't exist. 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.560 Democrats need to say, we're trying to change your lives. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.320 They're trying making up fantasies that don't exist, and run 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.360 against this because this is bullshit and people want bills 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.240 that deliver and change their lives. What do you think. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.760 I think, yes, I think your thesis is correct. And 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.200 I think, look, Republican, this is something they've been doing forever, right, 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.960 fake bills to solve fake problems. Right, They're going to 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:25.320 outlaw something that isn't real. 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.840 Performative moronics is what we often called it. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:32.000 Right, performative moronics. So of course this is what's happening. 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.840 And look, you have a health organization that's run by 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.720 a guy who spent the weekend tanning. Okay, my man, 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.440 he tends he swims in Rock Creek Park, he chews 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.440 chewing tobacco. This is not a healthy person. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.640 You mean the high froth. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.400 I mean, what are we doing? 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:54.960 Man? 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.680 Somi. We had footage this weekend of tanks rolling into 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:04.960 decent So unlike LA, this is for Trump's stupid parade. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.600 There's going to be counter protests to it all over 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.520 America that I think our listeners might be interested in. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.520 Can you talk to us a little bit about this? 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:13.360 Yeah? 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.880 So I just I did a reading in Princeton, New Jersey, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.559 at the library today, and what a lot of people 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.800 talking about is a no King's Day. The idea is 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.480 that Donald Trump has made himself a king. This is 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.320 a two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the United States 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.320 Military of the Army, but it happens to also be 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.520 this same day as Donald Trump's birthday. The Navy and 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.360 the Air Force don't get parades because they are not 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.960 on the same day as Donald Trump's birthday. You know, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.679 Republicans are like, it's just a coincidence, it's for the army. 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:48.320 It's not. 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:53.839 Okay, it is not a coincidence. This is Trump doing 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.320 authoritarian things. He's you know, I thought they were trying 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.920 to save money. We know that having a insane group 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.640 of tanks rolling through Washington, DC will not save anyone 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.280 any money. It's just a complete None of us should 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.960 be surprised by the performative moronics. And also, it really 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.880 is the kind of thing that feels like a souloritarian 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.679 want to be. Look, this is a guy who worships 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.240 Victor orbon This is what you get when you worship 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:34.480 Victor Orbona. Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.560 Project and the host of the Enemy's List. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:41.280 Rick Wilson, OLLI, Jong, fast, have you been arrested this weekend? 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:42.520 Not yet. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.760 A question I started asking people these days because you 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:48.240 never can tell anymore. 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.400 So let's talk about California. I want to just like 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.200 mention something which is anecdotal and not reported, but I 0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:00.280 think important. A friend of mine who was in New 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:05.360 York at the protests said that she found the police 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.360 were trying there were there was a lot of them 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.720 trying to get the protesters to act out. 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:11.680 Yeah. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.680 Yeah, I believe that. And I think that there is 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.360 a degree to which Stephen Miller and Tom Holman and 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.640 Christinoman the rest of these idiots they really really really 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.440 want an excuse and Pete Hegseth, they really want an 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.960 excuse to crackheads. Yeah, they want to. They want an 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.120 excuse to start beating the hell out of people, and 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.640 they want an excuse to say all Democrats believe in violence. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.679 So let's talk about protests because I want to like 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.240 just talk about like protests throughout history, because one of 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.200 the things we're seeing here is this is we're in 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:54.120 these periods of these very rapid cycles of backlash to 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.559 backlash to backlash. So I want to be cognizant of 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.400 like where so for example, well, there are people who 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.360 say that the nineteen sixties and the protests in the 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.320 sixties opened the door to Nixon. 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.560 Now I think you could absolutely make that case historically, by. 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.880 The way, right, So I want to be cognizant of 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:19.240 what's happening. That said, these protests are protests happening not 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:27.359 because of something, but really because they because of extraordinary 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.400 action from the Trump administration. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.160 Correct, this is not Vietnam. This is not so amorphous 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.600 and so distant from people. This is happening in communities 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.200 across this country right now. These are people, you know, 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:47.800 that are being harmed by what DHS and Trump is doing. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.280 There's a reason they're not happy about it. It's because 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.959 they shouldn't be. And you know, you're seeing some of 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:58.560 these Republicans start to get very nervous, Like this morning 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.800 in Florida, you had Salazar, a Republican congressperson from Miami, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.880 suddenly saying, Oh, I don't want all these people deported. 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:11.040 They're good people. Oh oh are they? You might have 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.400 mentioned that before your shill, but you know it is, 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.760 but it is. This is larger and more organic and 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.640 more dangerous for Trump. Then. I think that a lot 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.240 of a lot of his allies have realized they look 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.679 at this as Oh good, it's more Antifa going up 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.000 against the cops. We always win that battle. I'm not 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:36.080 sure you actually win this battle, because a lot of 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.960 the people that are being affected by this have more 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.080 ties into the communities that they're being expelled from than 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:44.520 a lot of the Trump folks think. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.840 Well. I would also add, like Democrats sit around worrying 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.040 about losing Hispanic voters, here's a really good way to 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.200 lose Hispanic voters. Arrest them. 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.920 Yeah, oh yeah, that's that's high them. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.760 To countries they haven't lived in in forty years. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.760 Or sending them to countries like Sudan. 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:05.760 Yeah. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:06.560 Some of the stuff that. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.680 They're doing is so profoundly abusive, and in Florida in particular, 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.960 they're now saying, Okay, well, we we hate communism so much, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.120 we have to send these people back to communist Cuba. 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:17.880 We hate communism so much, we have to send these 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:22.520 people back to Venezuela and in the Maduro regime. No interesting, 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:24.760 interesting approach. Not what I would have thought of. 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.920 Well, so here's the question. Then we have Steven Miller 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.360 two weeks ago says I'd like to see more raids 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:34.319 at the home depot. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:34.720 Yep. 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.800 Today we see raids at the home depot in a 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:42.520 Hispanic neighborhood in California. Stephen Miller comes from Santa Monica, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:48.720 has a certain hostility towards California. California fifth largest economy 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.600 in the world. We see reporting the Trump administration trying 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.800 to figure out ways to cut federal funds to California, right, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.640 I mean, this clearly is very intentional targeting. 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.880 I think I think we could make a very strong 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.400 case that a lot of the craziness that we're watching 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.640 has to do with the pathologies of Stephen Miller's upbringing. 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:12.600 And you and I have talked about, well, there is 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.640 something wrong with that guy. There's something wrong with him 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:21.119 at a really fundamental level, something broke in his childhood 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.680 that we can't really understand, I guess, but he is 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.360 a really, really messed up guy. 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:32.040 And Jesse would the fact check California fourth largest economy. 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.200 Well, there it is, right. I feel like there's a 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:39.040 degree to which we have never had anybody like Steven 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.040 Miller in the White House in a long time, in 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:49.120 part because he is so quite obviously a broken individual. 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.800 And this is like a this stuff is the acting 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.440 out he's doing is so over the top and so dramatic, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.920 and so you know, I will or the beauty of 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.960 the of the white race. Bullshit that it's ugly and 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.240 it's terrible, but it's also vaguely intriguing, Like, how do 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.560 you how do you psychoanalyze this guy? Because there's a 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:12.680 lot wrong with this guy. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.000 Yeah, I mean I also think there's this tension of 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.120 Trump administration really wants you know, they've run on this 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.200 white National List esque kind of racism. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:24.640 Yep. 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:30.080 But now Trump has grown his coalition to include Latino 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.520 He's grown his voting based with Latino men and black men. 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.880 So if you're going to deport those people, there will 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:42.120 be political consequences. Now, again, Trump is not running in 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:45.320 the midterms. There's reporting that says he cares about the midterms. 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.000 It's hard for me to imagine Trump caring about anyone 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:48.720 who's not him. 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.560 Yeah. I have a lot of trouble imagining Trump laying 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.840 awake at night going, oh goodness, I wonder if if 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.480 Mike Lawler is going to be okay, but you know. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.320 He doesn't want to get impeached again. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:03.920 Yeah, but you know what, if I were the Democrats, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.600 I wouldn't even mention impeachment right now. This is this 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.840 is a guy who the criming is so extraordinary and 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:16.480 so constant that you know, impeachment almost seems inadequate for it. 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.040 I mean, this is a guy who quite literally every 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.720 single day is involved in some some type or form 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:28.200 of criminality that has never been imagined in the White 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.400 House before. So, you know, I just I feel like 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.400 I feel like it's it's a better argument in this 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.280 point in the in the in the debate to tell 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.960 the voters that you're going to have Donald Trump's cabinet 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.160 members and the people he who work for him, and 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.640 the people who are doing all this horrifying crap not 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.960 only in America, but two Americans. They're they're going to 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.080 hold him those people account. Well, you're going to have 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.360 Christy Nome and Steven Miller and Tom Homan and and 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.720 you know the rest of these nut jobs up in 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:04.680 front of Congressional committees come next fall or come next 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:09.440 spring and have fun. Because there's a sense of right 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.720 now of immunity among the Trump world where nothing that 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:18.080 Republicans can couldn't possibly lose Congress, and so they feel 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.520 like they feel like nothing can go wrong. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.240 I think that's right. I do wonder though, as we 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.639 look at this and we watch what's happening at this moment. 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.920 There are going to be unintended consequences for Trump. Is 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.120 like with the tariffs. So on Saturday, the steel tariffs 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.760 came on. Now it is more expensive to buy steel 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.040 if you want to manufacture in the United States. That said, 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.680 if you want to bring in things that are made 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.560 with steel, you don't necessarily have the same tariff structure. 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.320 So again, yet another moment of unintended consequence. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:58.280 This administration is marked by a lot of not terribly 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.520 smart people do things that they think will appeal to 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.879 Trump's base. Yeah, and appeal to Trump and over and 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.679 over again. As you just correctly pointed out, something like 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.920 the these steel tariffs, it's one more layer of a 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:20.520 really bad economic theory being applied unwisely by people who 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.199 don't think things through. They have not thought any of 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:28.199 this through at all. There's been no like, hmm, what 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:28.720 could go. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.399 Wrong with this theory? When when a lot seems to 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.840 go wrong with most of the things they do. 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.560 All Elon's people want is for Trump and Eline to 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:43.479 make peace because they know they're fucked right, Like David 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.639 Sacks is like I poured all this money into. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:51.320 This and yep, so guys like David Sacks and and 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.359 and the you know, the all in guys kind of 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.720 nervousness is something to behold. 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:58.440 I love it, Okay, So. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:18:59.680 I'm eating it up with a spoon. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.560 So ABC News reports on Friday, shortly after seven am, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.879 they called Trump. The journalist who calls him asks him 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.600 about Musk. Trump says, you mean the man who has 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.600 lost his mind? Right, He's not particularly interested quote unquote 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:17.800 in talking to him right now. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.879 No, And I think I think one thing you're going 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:25.679 to see here is like a lot of stuff in 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.399 the in the Maga verse, they convinced themselves that the 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:33.080 world looks one way and only that way, because you know, 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.280 before this divorce, mommy and Daddy loved each. 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.439 Other, right, and they. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.040 Were the super team and they were going to make 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.399 the world. You know, they were those who was going 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.399 to save seven trillion dollars the whatever random number. It was. 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:52.040 That Musk represented a sort of new philosophical basis for 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.359 the Republican Party on how they were going to handle things, 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:59.200 and all of it was garbage, Yeah, every bility. It 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.120 was just like h a fever dream. And so now 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.800 you've got you know, guys like David Sachs, I can't. 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:06.879 I think it was Stephen Colbert who said, like David 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.280 Sachs desperately texting mommy to pick please pick me up 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:09.840 from school? 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:15.000 You know, well, I also just think, like David Zacks Trump, 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.760 I think you see Elon being like, well, maybe we 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.400 should make peace. But the reality is like Elon may 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:26.359 be erratic, but Trump is a radic. Like Trump is 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:27.760 not gonna be friends with him. 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.560 Again, Let's remember this the four one of my one 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.960 of my rules about Trump, the four things that motivate Trump, 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.520 what makes him money, what keeps him in the spotlight. 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:39.800 Sex used to be on the list more, but it's 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:40.560 not as much now. 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.600 Gradu turning seventy eight. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.639 Has something to do with it, and what humiliates people? Right, 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.840 and now Elon is only in category four, right he 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.560 And and you know, Michael Moritz, who's a big Silicon 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.359 Valley guy, wrote a piece in the Financial Times today 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.360 like basically saying to people who who thought they were 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.040 getting like good things for Crypto and good things for 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:12.239 the valley and good things for AI. He's like, if 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:14.760 you guys just jumped in with Trump on this, you 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.040 understand he's going to you know, completely f you and 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:23.639 you know that's what Trump. I mean, part of the 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.520 trust behavior is unclear to people at this late stage 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:26.960 in the game. 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.000 No, I agree, but it is. But it is unclear 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:34.000 to people like those Latino voters voted for Trump even 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.439 though the white people and some Latino people at the 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:43.120 Republican National Convention were waving mass deportation now. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.000 Sometimes yeah, and look there there are there are two 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:47.480 groups of people in this country that I think have 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.320 been in the finding out box about Trump more than 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.120 any other this year. A lot of those Arib Americans 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.639 in Detroit, Michigan, Lacomb County who all said, we're going 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.480 to teach Biden to lesson. We're going to show the 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:03.320 Democratic Party that I've committed us on Israel from now on. Yeah, 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.640 and we're gonna and we're gonna show. We're gonna show 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:10.160 Killer Joe, you sure did good work. And now they're 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:14.119 in a position where where you know, we have we 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.080 have a country where if you were an African American, 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.080 Trump looked at you as a prop, you know, as 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.040 a stage prop, and if you're Hispanic, pretty much the 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.520 same thing I heard from one point person around the 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.320 campaign at one point that they never did anything with 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.199 the air of American vote because they just couldn't believe 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:33.720 it was actually happening, that anybody could be that stupid. 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:39.280 Yeah, yeah, so that's pretty dark. So let's talk about 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.480 what happens now. National Guard is in California. Not much 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.560 for them to do now, pretty stupid. They've sent the 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.679 National Guard to California before, during the Rodney King riot. Ye, 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:55.040 there isn't really that's not what's happening here. 0:22:55.200 --> 0:23:00.840 This isn't really a an actual thing that calls for 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:05.840 the for the inclusion or the use of federal military force. 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.840 Yeah, that said, this is their cosplay. But they want 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:10.600 some violence. 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:11.760 They want violence. 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.800 Now, we have seen a lot of stupid things that 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.040 legislators have done to the Guard. For example, in New 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.560 York City, the Guard is on our subway, have almost 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:26.240 nothing to do there, but it's still you know, and 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:29.480 so so it is something there is some precedent for it. 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:32.640 But I think it's really important to remember that when 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:36.320 you look at the Twitter account of one Stephen Miller, 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:39.880 it's all this is an insurrection. This is an insurrection, 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.440 this is the end of days. But what it looks 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:46.840 like on the ground is people, people were pushing back, 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.840 and now it's a little bit more, it's more subdued today. 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:52.840 Look, I think I think we're seeing right now in 0:23:54.640 --> 0:24:04.280 Los Angeles a fairly understandable, explicable response to the very 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:08.320 heavy handed nature of ICE, which is, you know, again, 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.359 that is all Steven Miller. Every bit of that is 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:15.120 Steven Miller's model for doing this. They want to bring 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:19.679 in the heavily armed up, tooled up, tactical sort of 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:24.399 idea so that they can provoke people to do something dumb. 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.120 They want one person to push one cop so that, 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.439 you know, Donald Trump can can do everything short of 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:35.520 New King Los Angeles. It's really clear why they want 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:38.119 to do it this way. It also is something that 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:40.879 plays into the way their base works and thinks and 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:45.359 looks and talks about everything. It's all Antifa, it's all 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:51.040 a radical left wing conspiracy trying to destroy America. All 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:55.720 these things are very like well known We've heard this 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:57.720 song a lot of times. Let's put it that way. 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:00.439 Yeah, And you know, I just want to point out 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:05.760 one more time, between the Elon Trump trauma and the 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:10.280 what's happening in California, there is a massive piece of 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:14.240 legislation that has a lot of crap in it, a 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:16.400 lot of crap. Now, some of it's gonna get shot 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.399 down by a descent of parliamentarian. But there is also 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:23.480 an opportunity here of Democrats are smart to push, push, 0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:26.160 push against his fucking bell on this app. 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.879 Mollie, I could not agree with you more. It is 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:31.760 a it is a moment that is rarely handed to 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:35.560 this to the Democratic Party, where where all they have 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:38.320 to do is take advantage of some basic luck. 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:41.679 So let's talk if you were if you were working 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:43.919 in Chuck Schumer's office right now, what would you do? 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:47.440 Look, I would be doing well. First off, Yes, Line 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:50.560 one in the in this thing is the parliamentarian. Yeah, 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:54.560 that is. That is there's a lot of liquid, hot 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:59.000 garbage in this thing that cannot survive. But round two 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:04.199 is you got time now to talk about what this 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:07.680 is going to do to real people and to voters 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:11.480 in these in these in these Republican districts. And right 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:15.480 now I haven't heard the Democrats aggressively doing that, to 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:19.560 my mind enough, But they've got a moment here where 0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:22.440 they can start outlining the harm of this bill, they 0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:25.159 can start outlining the things that are in it. That 0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:28.760 are the stinkers that they that the Republicans all claim. 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:30.400 I never had a chance to read. 0:26:30.280 --> 0:26:35.840 That, right, I didn't see the judis, but but I wonder. 0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:39.680 It's like what I said that I joked. I was like, oh, well, 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.560 I didn't know that the throwing puppies in the wood 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:44.639 Chipper bill would mean we would throw puppies in the 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:45.840 wood chipper, right. 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:51.919 The refusal to regulate AI, to not allow states to 0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:55.680 regulate AI, to put that for a decade, I mean 0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:59.920 insane lawmaking at every point. Here's the other thing I want. 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:03.160 Decade from now, Molly, the robot overlords will have destroyed 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:04.320 us all at this point. 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:06.879 Well, and it's also but it's also I think a 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:10.639 really important point, which is like right now, Elon Musk 0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.520 has said this bill is a no go. That is 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:17.760 the biggest Republican donor. So you you know, if John 0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:22.560 Thune wants to go to war with the money for 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:25.160 the Republican Party, bring it on. 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:29.119 And look as Trump Trump tried to threaten Elon today 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:32.879 with that whole like the very serious consequences if he 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:36.399 does anything, gives up give money to other people. I'm thinking, 0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:39.560 you know, first off, yes, thank you very much for 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:42.320 the once again reminding us that the Free Speech Party 0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:46.600 is anything but. And secondly, you know this is this 0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:49.960 is a pretty hollow threat. If klon Musk wants to 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:52.199 spend his money, He's going to spend his damn money. 0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:53.879 Yeah, exactly. 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:58.320 And again, as you said, I strongly encourage Elon to 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.760 pursue every possible rem to the harm that's been done 0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:04.040 to him, because. 0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:13.199 Yeah, heartily, heartily, heartily gray. David A. Graham is a 0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:16.280 writer at the Atlantic and the author of the project 0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:19.639 How Project twenty twenty five is Reshaping America. 0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:21.800 Welcome to Fast Politics, David. 0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:22.879 Graham, thank you for having me. 0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:24.480 I think we should talk about this book you wrote 0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:27.760 about Project twenty twenty five, because the thing that I'm 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:30.600 struck by and I feel like I'm going crazy because 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:32.399 every day I'll be like, oh, yeah, this was in 0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:33.520 Project twenty twenty five. 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:34.800 Oh this, this was. 0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:37.320 In Project twenty two. Like I was actually talking to 0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:41.760 someone political this morning who's a straight news reporter. We 0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:44.959 were like debating whether or not Trump is tireder than 0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:47.000 he once was, and he was like, well, he's gotten 0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:48.720 a ton done in the first hundred days, and I 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:51.680 was like, yes, everything from Project twenty twenty five. 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:54.960 Yes, totally. I have the same experience. I keep seeing headlines, 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.480 Oh yeah, that's the that's there, just over and over 0:28:57.560 --> 0:28:58.040 every day. 0:28:58.320 --> 0:28:58.720 Yeah. 0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:01.320 You read it the South and was like and were like, 0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:03.320 oh fuck, and then just wrote a book about it. 0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:05.800 I mean I read bits and pieces last summer, and 0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:07.440 then I actually didn't read I didn't sit down to 0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:10.400 read all through as one thing until after the election, 0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:11.800 and then read it really fast. 0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:16.840 And then you were like, oh fuck, what I like 0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:19.680 about it? And I haven't read the whole thing cover 0:29:19.800 --> 0:29:22.880 to cover. Is it a thousand pages? It's pretty big, right, Yeah. 0:29:22.920 --> 0:29:25.200 I think at the nine hundred and twenty two give us. 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:29.280 The whole like elevator pitch about it, just for those 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:31.600 who have not been who can sleep at night. 0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:32.960 Yeah. 0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:37.320 So in twenty twenty two, the Heritage Foundation asked Paul Danz, 0:29:37.360 --> 0:29:39.280 who had been in the first Trump administration in a 0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:41.920 kind of low level position, to put together a bunch 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.040 of contributors and have a plan for the next conservative president. 0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:47.640 And so they got seventy people, a bunch of them 0:29:47.920 --> 0:29:51.680 former Trump administration members, think tankers, conservative wonks, that sort 0:29:51.680 --> 0:29:53.959 of group, all from kind of across the whole MAGA, right, 0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:57.600 And they put together this plan for what they would 0:29:57.680 --> 0:30:00.880 do department by department and also how they would do it, 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.480 and they produced this document. They put it online in 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:06.240 September twenty twenty three. You know, as we're saying, it's 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:08.720 been kind of the blueprint for how Trump is operated. 0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:11.080 And I think the thing that is notable about it 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:13.600 is not just the things that they said they wanted 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:15.479 to do, which is what I had been aware of, 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:18.440 you know, last summer, but how carefully they laid out 0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:20.480 plans to do it, and in particularly the way they 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:23.080 want to seize power for the president and take over 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.120 powers that belonged to Congress or to other parts of 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:27.040 the executive branch. 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:31.360 My favorite part of the whole story, and by favorite, 0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:35.640 I mean, oh, my fucking god, was when everyone was like, 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.120 he's going to do Project twenty twenty five. Because they're 0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:40.680 saying he's going to do Project twenty twenty five, and 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:43.640 in the introduction is like, I'm doing Project twenty five five, 0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:45.959 and then Trump comes out and it's like, no, I'm not. 0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:49.200 I don't know anything about it, and everyone's like, oh, okay, yeah. 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:50.960 It's amazing that it flew at all. I mean, these 0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:53.840 people are straight from his administration. I think about somebody 0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:56.080 like Russ Vote, who was the head of OMB in 0:30:56.080 --> 0:30:59.000 the first administration, ran his policy committee at the RNC 0:30:59.080 --> 0:31:01.520 in twenty twenty four and is now back at LMB. 0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:03.040 Never plausible at. 0:31:02.920 --> 0:31:05.920 All, never even and everyone was like, oh, okay. 0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:09.120 The thing that I got from it was a great 0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:15.560 expansion of presidential powers, creating a world in which each branch, 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:18.640 like the DOJ, which used to be a separate entity, 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.280 would really be an arm of the president'sy. We are 0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:27.280 seeing that so clearly with Air Force one Gate. I 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:31.920 wonder if you could talk about that mechanism, which is 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:34.400 that I feel like is one of the many new 0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:35.240 things in this. 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:37.600 Yeah, there's a bunch of these things. And it's a 0:31:37.640 --> 0:31:41.360 mix of like blowing through informal guidelines or rules that 0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:43.800 existed that weren't laws, and then in some cases going 0:31:43.880 --> 0:31:46.560 right through laws, or trying to get the Supreme Court 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:48.600 to approve overturning laws. 0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:51.760 Right or using laws that everybody had forgotten about because 0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:53.880 they were so stupid and insane. 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:55.760 Exactly, or applying them in ways that no one had 0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:59.000 anticipated exactly. So the big things I think are one, yeah, 0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:01.240 taking over the Justice Department, which you know they point 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:03.600 out it's the attorney general is appointed. But there've always 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:05.479 been rules that not always there have been long been 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:08.560 rules that insulated DJs, so there weren't abuses and their headituties. 0:32:08.720 --> 0:32:12.040 That is bad right where they've been, you know, firing 0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:14.960 civil servants in violation of the law. They want to 0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:18.280 convert civil servants to political appointments so they can fire 0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:19.800 them and also tell them what they want to do. 0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:24.360 They want to seize control of the independent regulatory agencies, 0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:26.719 so you know, the FCC, the FEC, so on and 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.600 so forth. We've seen them trying to fire people in 0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:32.719 those positions in obvious violation of the law, and those 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.160 are now in lawsuits. And then also there is the 0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:37.680 attempt to impound funds so to basically take the power 0:32:37.720 --> 0:32:39.760 of the purse away from Congress. So all of that 0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:42.640 combines to make a much more powerful presidency. 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:44.240 Right, the imperial presidency. 0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:48.520 What I like so much about this is that since 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:52.160 they do this thing where you say what they want 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:55.280 to create an imperial presidency and they go yeah, mm hmm, 0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:57.960 like instead of being like, no, we don't want to 0:32:57.960 --> 0:32:59.880 do that they're like, yeah. 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:01.040 I mean it's a to me that they just put 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:04.320 this all online in summer of twenty twenty three. Here's 0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:06.880 our playbook, here's what we are going to do, and 0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:08.480 then they've done it. Well, you know, we can't say 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:10.000 we weren't warned exactly. 0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:13.000 So what I like also about Project twenty twenty five 0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:17.680 is like everybody has a peccadillo, because these are highly 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:23.000 aggrieved people who feel that they have never gotten their due, right. 0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:27.040 I feel like the entire trumpest regime sort of runs 0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:30.320 on conservative agreement, right that you know, I didn't get 0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:36.040 into Harvard. I only got into pen because Harvard was 0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:38.960 taking liberals, right, or you know the Charlie Kirk of it. 0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:42.560 I didn't get into college because other people who were 0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:46.480 less deserving got into college and they weren't white. Ergo, 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:49.480 I am now going to do racism. Okay, there's a 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:52.320 lot of that kind of aggrieved thinking in this book. 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:55.280 Talk to me about the sort of in Project twenty 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:59.400 twenty five. What are the kind of most aggrievedy kind 0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:02.640 of or whatever you've seen in there. 0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:05.080 Yeah, So there's like it operates on a bunch of levels. 0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:07.320 There's a kind of general grievance like liberals have taken 0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:08.840 over the culture. You know, they say, we're in the 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:12.280 late stages of Marxist takeover. They're taking away the America 0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:13.960 we love. We have to take it back. So there's 0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:15.960 this kind of broad one. There's a sense that within 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:19.279 the government, liberal elites have a stifled the ability of 0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:21.720 conservatives to do what they want or to control the government. 0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:23.960 You know, they stifled Trump in his first term. There's 0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:27.399 a sense of grievance about the twenty twenty election being 0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:31.000 supposedly stolen, and then also about the prosecutions of Trump, 0:34:31.080 --> 0:34:33.040 so they're very upset about that. And then you get 0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:36.400 kind of particular grievances to individuals and inside departments. So, 0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:38.520 I mean, I think Paul Dan's is a great example of. 0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:40.520 This, right, this is the most interesting. 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:43.480 Yeah, Like Paul Dan's is angry that one of the 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:45.960 reasons he wants better political appointments and why he focused 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:47.719 on this is he's angry that he didn't get a 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:50.279 better job in the Trump administration in twenty seventeen, and 0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:53.080 he thinks he was blocked by bush people and rhinos 0:34:53.080 --> 0:34:55.080 and he wanted real maga people in the government. And 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:58.600 he has this real like crusade against who he sees 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:01.200 what he says as bad political appoint ease. And then 0:35:01.239 --> 0:35:04.080 you get like, you know, in every individual chapter you 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:06.200 have an element of this. So yeah, you know, I 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.400 think about like the intelligence chapter complains that, you know, 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:12.799 conservative dissenters have been not allowed to speak in intelligence, 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:15.040 but they also say intelligence analysts need to keep their 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:17.399 mouths shut and go along with the program. So there's 0:35:17.400 --> 0:35:18.520 a real contradiction there. 0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:23.000 There's a lot of abortion stuff in here that I 0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:26.560 feel like so much of the modern conservative movement we 0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:29.279 shouldn't even call it conservative because that's such a misnomer, 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:33.480 but so much of this modern movement, ohs great credit 0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:38.960 to this sort of fillish slack play wing of insanity. 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:42.200 Talk to me about that, this sort of anti feminism, 0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:43.040 et cetera. 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:45.080 I want to go back real quickly. I mean, you 0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:46.960 said this, it's not conservative, and I think that's a 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:49.280 great point. And I have been trying and not always 0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:51.239 succeeding to think about it that way, to talk about 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:53.160 it that way, like it's right wing. But I don't 0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:56.400 think it's conservative. I think they're contemplating power grabs and 0:35:56.440 --> 0:36:00.440 approaches and use of government that conservatives have traditional lyrisistay. 0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:03.239 Right, I mean, and that's why you see on his 0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:07.879 own rand Paul just by himself being like, hey, hey, 0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:10.320 that's not what we are talking about. 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:13.120 Yeah, there's I mean, there's a very anti feminist strain. 0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:16.279 The number of ideas they have for abortion, I think 0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:19.560 is remarkable. People. Obviously they would like a national abortion ban, 0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:23.040 but they also want to withdraw FDA approval from pristone. 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:24.960 They want to prevent it from being mailed using this 0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:27.440 eighteen seventy three law. They want to create a database 0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.080 that tracks abortions at the state level, in part to 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:32.920 track whether women are crossing state lines to get abortions. 0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:36.600 They want women mostly to be at home looking after children. 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:39.719 They want men to be the breadwinners. So it is 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:42.840 this very traditional schlafy esque kind of vision of how 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:43.879 life should work. 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:46.319 I want to talk about Comstock because I think of 0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:50.120 Comstock as one of these zombie laws. 0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:51.800 Right, those laws. 0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:55.280 That Comstock comes from, anti corruption laws. Anti corruption laws 0:36:55.880 --> 0:36:59.040 seemed so outdated that no one in Congress bothered to 0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:01.840 repeal them. I want you to talk to us about 0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:05.160 other zombie laws in this book, or other things that 0:37:05.320 --> 0:37:09.040 you saw that were leaziness had left them on the 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.600 books or anything along those lines. 0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:14.319 Yeah, I mean, you know, you see the Alien Enemies Act, 0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:16.080 I think is a great example of this. This is 0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:19.000 something that goes back to the late eighteenth century that 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:20.600 they're resurrecting. 0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:21.480 More of eighteen twelve. 0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:24.680 Yeah, the Insurrection Act. Using it in other place, is 0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:27.000 trying to, you know, argue there's an invasion of the country. 0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:30.200 And so they're really clever about digging into the law. 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:31.480 And these are people who spend a lot of time 0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:34.359 in government and understand government well, different from Elon, who 0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.520 you know, seems to be discovering how little he knows. 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:40.239 These guys have done the work and they they've been 0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:42.200 spent a lot of time digging up where they see 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:44.200 laws they can use like this and apply in totally 0:37:44.200 --> 0:37:44.840 novel ways. 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:48.840 How does Elon sort of dovetail in this since on today? 0:37:49.160 --> 0:37:51.480 I think Elon has been a good vessel for a 0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:53.719 lot of the Project twenty twenty five people where they 0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:56.000 didn't anticipate him and when the you know, when they 0:37:56.040 --> 0:37:58.399 produced this report, he was not yet, he hadn't gone 0:37:58.440 --> 0:38:00.399 full Trump yet. But they've been really good just sort 0:38:00.440 --> 0:38:02.319 of pointing him where they want, and so they had 0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.440 they imagined, i think, a pretty slow attempt to shrink 0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:08.200 the federal workforce by firing a lot of people by 0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:10.120 using legal means, which they had thought about a lot, 0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.040 and they realized that they can sort of point eline 0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:14.359 at something and he'll just drive the bulldozer through. Some 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:16.560 of those things will probably get knocked down in court, 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:18.080 but I think there's going to be a permanent shift 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:21.160 because you can't simply reconstitute these things. Once you've laid 0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:22.400 a lot of people off, they're not going to come 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:23.840 back to work. They're not going to come back to 0:38:23.880 --> 0:38:26.080 work in the government. You're not going to restart these programs. 0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:28.040 And so he has been a really effective agent for them. 0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:30.920 I mean, tell me what's in there that really surprised 0:38:30.960 --> 0:38:32.960 you or that people are not talking about but Trippe 0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:34.400 or that's just weird. 0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:36.960 Yeah, God, there's so much that's just weird. I mean, like, 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:40.080 you know, they want to ban porn entirely, and right, 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:40.840 I love it. 0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:43.480 By the way. That's like I'm like, that's what's so 0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:46.120 great about the thing is that like nobody, not even 0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:48.759 Steven Miller, has read the whole time, right, So like 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:50.880 they do want to ban porn? And everyone's like, no, 0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:52.320 that's not true, and it's like no. 0:38:52.160 --> 0:38:55.840 No, really do they want to, you know, eliminate regulation 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:58.400 of forever chemicals. I mean it's just like in every 0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:00.759 section you can find something like that. I think the 0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:03.359 environmental stuff is starting to get attention, but has not 0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:05.840 sufficiently because it is I mean, they just want to 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:08.480 eliminate almost all climate research. They want to get rid 0:39:08.480 --> 0:39:12.080 of climate regulation. It's such a sweeping assault on the 0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:15.880 data and on any protections for climateacation, and their answers like, well, 0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:18.799 private business and innovation will is the best way to 0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:21.239 take care of this, which is not an answer at all. 0:39:21.520 --> 0:39:23.200 I think that's really important. I mean, I think the 0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:26.440 assault on the Education Department and the desire to effectively 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:29.640 snuff out public schools is really important and people have 0:39:29.719 --> 0:39:31.640 gotten a little bit of that, but maybe not quite 0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:34.480 how deep it is. And the family stuff, I mean, 0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:36.040 the way they want to use every arm of the 0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:39.960 federal government to encourage this biblically based vision of the family, 0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:42.879 I think is a really sweeping grab onto power as well. 0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:48.400 Yeah, I mean that's a really good point. The data stuff, 0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:53.160 the idea that somehow knowing things will make them true 0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:56.640 is super interesting. And that's like the war against the 0:39:56.880 --> 0:39:59.839 national the weather. Talk to me about that because that's 0:39:59.880 --> 0:40:03.040 a thing. It's just so strange, but it makes sound right. 0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.640 Yeah, I mean so much of their ideas like we 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:08.879 want research with a for ordained conclusion. So they want 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:11.319 research on, you know, the harm that abortion does to women, 0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:15.600 or they want research on how traditional families produce better outcomes. 0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:17.840 You've already declared what you want, and I think this 0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:20.440 is true. You know, when they talk about climate they 0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:23.560 say they want the federal government to do research and development, 0:40:23.840 --> 0:40:25.399 but then they talk about all the things they want 0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:27.759 to cut, and that includes funding for a lot of 0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:31.160 basic research and includes funding for understanding even what you know, 0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:33.799 what climate is doing. They want all that stuff privatized 0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:36.959 because it helps people who are related you know, Trump 0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:40.080 donors and people involved in the movement, but also because 0:40:40.400 --> 0:40:42.640 once you have good data that suggests climate change, it's 0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:44.680 very hard to argue against taking action, which they don't 0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:45.040 want to do. 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:48.480 Some of it can be pretty easily undone, right, Like 0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:52.359 Trump did one hundred executive orders about things that are 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:56.920 like Mark Olias makes me mad. I understand, he makes 0:40:56.920 --> 0:41:00.600 you mad, but that's not actually how any of it works. 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:04.280 But is there anything else where you sort of see 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:08.160 a real opportunity to undo or where you really say 0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:10.840 that it's going to be hard to get back from. 0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:12.839 I think it's a kind of question of how long 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:15.440 we go. There's a lot of these things that Congress 0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:18.880 could stop quickly, but the or the courts will stop slowly. 0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:21.000 But the longer they go on, the harder they are 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:23.440 to reverse. And so even if you can, you know, 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:25.520 you can switch the executive order, you can cancel something, 0:41:25.760 --> 0:41:27.239 but I think some of the damage to like the 0:41:27.560 --> 0:41:30.239 sort of infrastructure of federal government is going to be 0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:32.279 a lot harder to undo. And also, like I mean, 0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:35.120 executive orders is exactly right. I mean, I remember how 0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:37.719 angry so many people in the Republican Party were when 0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:40.680 Obama was talking about using executive orders in twenty thirteen, 0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:43.920 twenty fourteen, and now they didn't have a legislative agenda. 0:41:44.000 --> 0:41:46.560 It's all just using executive power to force these things through, 0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:48.600 which is another reason why I think it's on. You know, 0:41:48.840 --> 0:41:50.160 it's not conservative at all. 0:41:50.520 --> 0:41:55.040 Rare, It's true, it's not conservative at all. It's something else. 0:41:55.120 --> 0:42:00.799 It's some strange kind of neo monarchist to function. A 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:05.600 lot of people were surprised at how much Congress rolled over. 0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:08.719 I have not actually been so surprised by that. I mean, 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:11.120 I think if you saw Trump one, you realize, like 0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:14.200 these people, you know, the few people who are not 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:18.200 completely cowed to him, really did just lose their seats. 0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:22.040 I wonder, though, when he came into power, he swept 0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:24.520 in on a certain you know, he won the popular vote, 0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:26.480 he was in a better position than he had been 0:42:26.600 --> 0:42:29.440 in twenty sixteen. And again, maybe I'm just a cock 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:33.799 eyed optimist, but I wonder now we see that a 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:36.399 lot of this is unpopular. We you know, the sort 0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:39.560 of thalt of trump Ism. You know, he wants to 0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:42.360 do a lot of stuff that's going to be expensive 0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:46.719 and unpopular. And you know, there really is the invasion 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:50.480 that they had said was a thing is not, you know, 0:42:50.800 --> 0:42:57.359 Trende Aragua is not coming to Ohio and Republican the 0:42:57.360 --> 0:42:59.880 brand clearly he has tarnished. Do you think there's a 0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.000 way here that Republicans find bravery? 0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:05.960 You know, the one time I've seen Republicans do anything, 0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:08.719 it's interesting, was when Russfold tried to impound funds at 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:10.880 the very start of the administration, and you had a 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:13.279 group of Republican senators say, hey, wait a second, that's 0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:16.520 money that's going to our states, and immediately the White 0:43:16.560 --> 0:43:19.080 House back down. And that's the only time they've spoken up. 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:21.000 And that was really striking to me. I do think 0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:23.040 it's really unpopular, and I think that will backfire. But 0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:26.000 I also think for the authors of Project twenty twenty five, 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:29.360 they understood that. They mean, we had pulling from heritage 0:43:29.560 --> 0:43:32.680 last summer, that it was at polling over seventeen percent 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:35.520 in battleground states, right, and then. 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:38.200 Last even when people got to know about it, Yeah. 0:43:38.080 --> 0:43:40.160 Yeah, And so they were like, we need to get 0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:41.720 as much of this done in the first one hundred 0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:43.319 days and in the first two years as we can, 0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:45.640 because they knew they would be backlash and they just 0:43:45.640 --> 0:43:47.200 want to move the baseline as far as they can. 0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:49.839 And so for them, Trump is a means to that end, 0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:52.040 and if he becomes unpopular, it's less of a big 0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:54.000 deal for them because they're playing a long game. 0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:54.439 Right. 0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:58.120 I really think that is the most salient point of 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:00.600 this whole thing. And that again, and when you look 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:03.120 at the war and the courts right, that moving the 0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:06.759 courts the right like they overturned row The things they 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:09.880 want they're getting, and they're sort of moving fast and 0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:14.000 breaking things because ultimately they don't really care what happens 0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:14.400 to Trump. 0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:15.719 Trump is a vassal for those. 0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:18.759 Yeah, exactly. They're very clever about I mean, I think 0:44:18.800 --> 0:44:20.399 we saw this with Rowan and we see this year. 0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:22.279 They're very clever about playing a long game and thinking 0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:24.840 about the methods they want to do and thinking far ahead. 0:44:25.000 --> 0:44:28.440 People have been saying that Democrats should have a Project 0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:32.280 twenty twenty nine. Do you think that's a good idea 0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:34.680 or do you think that actually Project twenty twenty five 0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:36.759 has been largely harmful. 0:44:37.040 --> 0:44:39.279 I think the thing that Democrats need to take is 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:41.880 about the planning and methods, Like it's not enough to 0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:44.000 have what you want to do, but you need to 0:44:44.040 --> 0:44:45.640 have an idea of how you want to do it. 0:44:45.680 --> 0:44:47.440 And I think that's really important. But I also think 0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:49.560 the thing that we really need that I've been thinking 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:51.920 about is we need to empower Congress. Congress has been 0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:54.520 so disempowered. This is something that the Project twenty twenty 0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:56.239 five authors say, but a lot of people agree, and 0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:58.160 we see them rolling over to Trump. So the best 0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:00.319 thing I think to strengthen democracy is to find whey, 0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:03.080 is to get Congress back in action and defending its 0:45:03.120 --> 0:45:05.000 prerogatives in doing its work. 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:08.319 And maybe having people who are not one hundred years old. 0:45:08.600 --> 0:45:11.560 Thank you, Thank you, David Graham. 0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:11.839 Thank you. 0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:21.560 No moment, Rick Wilson, Molly john Fast, what is your 0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:22.600 moment of fuck ray? 0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:25.160 Oh gosh, I mean Steven Miller is the easy, low 0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:28.040 hanging target. But actually I think my moment of fuckery 0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:31.080 right now is we're gonna go We're gonna go down 0:45:31.080 --> 0:45:35.160 to old Joe Rogan. This. Uh, I'm the great independent 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:38.080 voice of the media. I'm not one of those people 0:45:38.120 --> 0:45:40.719 that censors myself. And the other day, when he's sitting 0:45:40.760 --> 0:45:43.839 with Cash Patel and Cash Patel tells him, by the way, 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:47.840 Elon says that that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files, 0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:50.920 Joe Rogan immediately sobs and goes. 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:52.120 What about Hunter Biden? 0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:53.439 Yeah? 0:45:53.520 --> 0:45:55.120 Wow, you know, I'm sorry. 0:45:55.320 --> 0:46:00.400 The act of independent journalism and fiery pursuit of truth 0:46:00.480 --> 0:46:03.000 is on the right is some horseshit of the of 0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:03.799 the highest order. 0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:06.400 Do you know what my moment of fuckery is? 0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:07.040 Do tell? 0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:13.759 It's uh? ABC news, Oh oh Man, and the senior 0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:22.120 national correspondent Terry Moran is suspended, and he is suspended. 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:24.560 By the way, did you see this that maybe they 0:46:24.600 --> 0:46:26.120 didn't call in the National Guard? 0:46:27.520 --> 0:46:28.239 No, I have not. 0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:32.279 The newsom said that he confirmed they called it in. 0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:35.760 Okay, because ABC News is saying they're not. But anyway, 0:46:35.800 --> 0:46:38.680 it doesn't matter. The point is, but here's Terry Moran. 0:46:38.840 --> 0:46:40.920 He says. The thing about Stephen Miller is not that 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:44.080 he's the brains behind Trump is. Yes, he is one 0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:46.560 of the people who conceptualizes the impulses of Trump, the 0:46:46.600 --> 0:46:49.799 trump Is movement, and translated them into policy. But it's 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:52.759 not what's interesting about Miller. It's the brain. It's not 0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:55.680 the brains, it's the bile. And then there's more about 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:59.600 him being a world class hater. Somehow Trump World furious 0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.239 about that this. I would like to remind you that 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:06.120 Donald Trump does stuff ten times worse than this every day. 0:47:06.719 --> 0:47:10.360 But the idea here is that journalists are not I 0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:11.719 don't know, it's fake out right. 0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:14.680 I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you this is 0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:19.920 this is so far short of I think what would 0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:24.279 be a justification for suspending a journalist like Terry, who 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:27.719 is a professional, who is not a who is not 0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:31.520 a not a hack type guy. But again, the Party 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:34.120 of free speech is all for free speech until it 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:38.480 intrudes on the ego of a certain giant, jiggling, obese 0:47:38.560 --> 0:47:42.239 lard heap in the Oval Office. I also don't understand 0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:46.360 the possible motivation of ABC to say themselves, Hey, you 0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:49.520 don't want to be a great idea, let's comply in advance. 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:54.080 Let's give it to Trump before something happens. It just 0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:58.600 it makes no sense whatsoever, and it gives me right. 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:04.160 I'm sorry. This is not how this should work in 0:48:04.480 --> 0:48:05.600 a functioning republic. 0:48:06.600 --> 0:48:11.040 Thank you, Rick Wilson, See you soon. That's it for 0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:17.000 this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:21.719 Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:26.080 make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:29.880 please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 0:48:30.320 --> 0:48:31.440 Thanks for listening.