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Speaker 1: Andrew McCutchen is a Pirates legend. He won an MVP there.

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Speaker 1: He brought him back to when they actually made the

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Speaker 1: playoffs and were relevant again. Why can't they figure this out?

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Speaker 1: Why can't they just do like the Red Sox did

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Speaker 1: with Tim Wakefield and like, Hey, as long as you

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Speaker 1: want to play, here's one year, five million dollars and

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Speaker 1: you can play as long as you want to play,

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Speaker 1: and you will always have a spot here in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 2: I wrote about this at length today, AJ and it's

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Speaker 2: a complicated situation in many ways, and one of the

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Speaker 2: things that should have happened here. And the Pirates do

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Speaker 2: realize this. They should have addressed this with McCutchen sooner.

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Speaker 2: Should have told him last offseason or even during the

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Speaker 2: season if this was their intention, Hey, this is it, Andrew.

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Speaker 2: Let's plan out your farewell. Let's make it the last

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Speaker 2: go round in Pittsburgh, and let's go from there. The

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Speaker 2: problem with that is that Andrew McCutcheon still believes he

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Speaker 2: can play, and actually last year was pretty good, not great,

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Speaker 2: not the Andrew McCutcheon of old, of course, but a

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Speaker 2: contributing major league player, especially against left handed pitching. He

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Speaker 2: gives you a good at bat, and then you're looking

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Speaker 2: at a situation where, Okay, the Pirates suddenly decide this

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Speaker 2: offseason that, ooh, we've got Paul Skeins, maybe we should

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Speaker 2: try a little harder. Since we've got Paul Skeins that

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Speaker 2: have wasted two years with him, So they set out

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Speaker 2: to improve their offense, to improve it in a bigger

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Speaker 2: way than they had in the past. When mccutcheen was

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Speaker 2: really the first person they signed the last three off seasons,

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Speaker 2: the first guy that they turned to. Then they built

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Speaker 2: around him. This year, what do they do. They signed

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Speaker 2: Ryan or Hearn, They trade for Brandon Laue, pick up

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Speaker 2: some other pieces as well. The password from Boston and

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Speaker 2: McCutchen seems to be the odd man out. It's unfortunate.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't have happened this way. Part of it is

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Speaker 2: his pride and him saying, hey, I can still play,

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Speaker 2: I should be here, and part of them. Part of

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Speaker 2: it is also them saying, you know what, we're kind

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Speaker 2: of ready to move on. They're not saying that explicitly,

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Speaker 2: in fact, they're saying we're leaving the door open, but

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Speaker 2: clearly they are ready to accelerate in their building here

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Speaker 2: and they want to do better in that DH spot,

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Speaker 2: perhaps than Andrew McCutcheon. I ended the column by saying, listen,

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Speaker 2: if they don't want McCutcheon, that's fine, But unless you

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Speaker 2: find someone better, then what are we doing here? That's

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Speaker 2: kind of what I said. And it's a really difficult situation. Aj.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that you experienced this, Eric, I don't

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Speaker 2: know that you experienced it either. But sometimes with players

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Speaker 2: at the end of their careers, particularly superstar players, it's

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Speaker 2: difficult because they are superstars in large part because they

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Speaker 2: saw themselves in a way that others did not. They

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Speaker 2: had immense faith in their abilities. And when you're like that,

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Speaker 2: when you're built like that, when it comes down to

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Speaker 2: the end, sometimes it's difficult to admit. And that's part

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Speaker 2: of this too.

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Speaker 3: I've seen it. I've seen it. But I love the

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Speaker 3: way you ended your article. You said they have to

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Speaker 3: make another move. They need to make another move, and

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Speaker 3: if that other move isn't better than Andrew McCutcheon, what

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Speaker 3: are they doing right?

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Speaker 2: And it could have been Suarez. They were in on

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Speaker 2: Aohano swarz and I know they're getting the tried hard

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Speaker 2: metal too. Like the Red Sox are, and they're in

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a different spot, of course, because

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Speaker 2: as I wrote, when players have a better option, when

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Speaker 2: free agents have a better option, a more competitive option,

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Speaker 2: in their opinion, they're going to choose that option over

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Speaker 2: the Pirates. That's simply what the Pirates have created for

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Speaker 2: themselves with their efforts the last few years. So in

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Speaker 2: Ajohano Suarez's case, he had played in Cincinnati for seven seasons,

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Speaker 2: he was comfortable there, money's comparable, Hey, why not go back?

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Speaker 2: And that's the choice he made. If they had signed Suarez,

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Speaker 2: or if they get someone along those lines, then I

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Speaker 2: think it's easier for them to justify parting with McCutcheon

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Speaker 2: and say Andrew, no longer. It's no longer time for

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Speaker 2: you here. We want to move on. You can retire

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Speaker 2: here later if you want to go somewhere else, which

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Speaker 2: he has every right to do and go about it

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Speaker 2: in that way. But right now they don't have that

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Speaker 2: additional piece, and mccutchen's sitting out there and they're gonna

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Speaker 2: go to spring training next week if this has not

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Speaker 2: been resolved with manager Don Kelly and his first spring

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Speaker 2: training answering questions about something that he is absolutely not

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Speaker 2: in control of.

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Speaker 4: Ken, I want to double down on what you said

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Speaker 4: with the pirates expecting to get a player when they're

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Speaker 4: putting up a very similar offer here. Noah Hayles, who

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Speaker 4: is one of the hosts on our Bucko Territory show,

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Speaker 4: went after them today.

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Speaker 5: I mean, are they not experienced enough to understand this?

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Speaker 4: Ben Sherington's been in the business for a long period

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Speaker 4: of time, whether it's him or someone else. The part

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Speaker 4: I don't understand is you make a somewhat identical offer

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Speaker 4: from what it sounds like, and then maybe hint that

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Speaker 4: you could go up. Hey guys, it's February, what's your

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Speaker 4: best offer? And do you really want the player?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 4: There's so much confusion. Fans are like, did they even

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Speaker 4: want him? Well, it sounds like they wanted him because

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Speaker 4: they threw an offer out. So is there any way

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Speaker 4: that you can help to take us inside why they

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Speaker 4: would miss on a player that I think they clearly

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Speaker 4: wanted and felt like they could have beaten the offer,

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Speaker 4: yet didn't like waited.

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Speaker 5: I'm very lost on this one.

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Speaker 2: That's a question for them, Scott more so than me,

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Speaker 2: and I will try to get inside their heads, but

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Speaker 2: that's sometimes a dangerous game to play. It seems to

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Speaker 2: me that they are valuing players properly. The problem is,

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Speaker 2: when you're the Pittsburgh Pirates, valuing players properly is not

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Speaker 2: necessarily going to get a deal done. Now, what if

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Speaker 2: they had gone to eighteen million for one year with

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Speaker 2: Suarez three million more than he got from the Reds.

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Speaker 2: Does that get it done? It might? And if you're

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Speaker 2: the Pirates and you're hell bent on doing what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: surrounding the schemes with the best possible talent, taking full

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Speaker 2: advantage of his final years with the team, then you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have to overpay. In certain cases. With Ryan O'Hearn,

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Speaker 2: that was a market deal. It seemed to be maybe

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Speaker 2: a little bit of an overpay. He's a good player

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Speaker 2: for sure, two years, twenty nine million, but they have

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Speaker 2: not been able to get the free agents. And yes,

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Speaker 2: I think what you're getting at is why aren't they overpaying?

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Speaker 2: They need to overpay, and I would not dispute that, Scott.

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Speaker 2: The results speak for themselves. If you're gonna go and

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Speaker 2: play in this arena which they suddenly are seeming to

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Speaker 2: play in, well, then go do it and don't kind

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Speaker 2: of do it halfway.

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Speaker 1: That was my point. We talked to Jim Bowden yesterday

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Speaker 1: and I said the same thing. Listen, you say what

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Speaker 1: you want about the Reds and Suarez, but if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get him to come to Pittsburgh over Cincinnati where

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Speaker 1: he's already been. And people forget, the Reds did make

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Speaker 1: the playoffs last year, no matter how they got in,

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Speaker 1: they did make the playoffs. And what a veteran players

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Speaker 1: look like, especially on short term deals, they want to

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Speaker 1: go somewhere where they can win. For that one Tayoscar

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Speaker 1: Hernandez did it right, for that one year he went

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Speaker 1: to the Dodgers. They win the World Series movie he

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Speaker 1: jumps back again right. Bike Snow tried that with the

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Speaker 1: Giants teams. They want to go to a place pregnant

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Speaker 1: went to the Red Sox and that short term deal.

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Speaker 1: They want where they feel like they have a chance

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Speaker 1: to win. So if you're the Pirates, I'm sorry, you

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Speaker 1: have to go two years and maybe thirty or you know,

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Speaker 1: one year twenty. You have to almost blow somebody out

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Speaker 1: of the water in order to get them there. That's

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Speaker 1: why La has become such a destination. It was why

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Speaker 1: the Yankees forever was a destination because we're going to

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Speaker 1: the postseason. I got a chance to finally get my ring.

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Speaker 1: And if you're going to be that in Pittsburgh, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to overpay, even though they don't want to.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's fair, Aja, And certainly the results have

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Speaker 2: indicated just what you're saying, that they're not getting it done.

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Speaker 2: Giving players maybe the value that they think is fair,

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Speaker 2: and a value that actually is fair. That's fine. But

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Speaker 2: when you're the pit broke pirates, when you have this

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Speaker 2: recent history, seven straight losing seasons, you're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: do some things differently. And they've done things differently in

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Speaker 2: the sense that they've gone after these guys when they

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Speaker 2: haven't done that in the past. But I remember this

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Speaker 2: came up after I reported their offer to Schwarber. It

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Speaker 2: was a good offer, but it was never going to

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Speaker 2: get it done because of course he had a comparable offer,

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Speaker 2: even a better offer from the Phillies, and they needed

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Speaker 2: to go well above where the Phillies were. You want

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Speaker 2: to play the game, you got to play it and

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Speaker 2: play it at full tilt.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And last one, what's the next chip? To fall.

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Speaker 3: Now that we've got some trades out of the way,

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Speaker 3: some free agents, what, in your opinion do you feel

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Speaker 3: like is the next chip to fall? The upper tier Framburg,

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Speaker 3: the middle tier, Bassett, the Verlander type of what's coming

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Speaker 3: down the road. Because we're days now, we're days away

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Speaker 3: from pitchers and catchers for some teams.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that it's fromber and obviously he could

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Speaker 2: sign it the next hour. I looked like an idiot.

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Speaker 2: But it seems to me that's going to go into

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Speaker 2: spring training and it's going to take maybe an injury

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Speaker 2: or a team seeing that maybe it's not as good

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Speaker 2: as it thought it is, and that would be how

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Speaker 2: that gets resolved. I will tell you one thing that

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Speaker 2: we're all waiting for the Detroit Tigers arbitration hearing with

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Speaker 2: Trek Scooble, which is taking place tomorrow. The outcome there

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Speaker 2: likely will influence what the Tigers do next. If they

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Speaker 2: lose and schoob gets thirty two million, I don't expect

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Speaker 2: the Tigers to play for a starting pitcher, whether it's

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Speaker 2: Bassett or Giolito, anybody that they might be in line

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Speaker 2: for if they win and that salary is nineteen million

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Speaker 2: for schoobl instead of thirty two million, then perhaps the

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Speaker 2: Tigers will do that one additional piece. Now you can

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Speaker 2: make the argument, and I would make this argument that

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Speaker 2: they should do it regardless. Got one more year Trek Schoobel, Hello,

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Speaker 2: let's go. But it seems that from what Cody Stavenhagen

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Speaker 2: has reported in The Athletic that they're next move hinges

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Speaker 2: on what happens in that hearing.

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Speaker 4: Ken, sorry, last one, just based on what you just

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Speaker 4: said here, is there any chance that trade talks fireback

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Speaker 4: up if they lose because they seem to be so

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Speaker 4: cash strapped, and if you're not going for it, this

200
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Speaker 4: has been your thing all off season. If you're not

201
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Speaker 4: going for it, what are you doing with Trek Scuba?

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Speaker 4: You're gonna waste away the asset.

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Speaker 2: Scott always possible, and certainly if it's thirty two million,

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Speaker 2: maybe they're more motivated. But at the same time, what

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Speaker 2: are you doing if you're the Detroit Tigers and you

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Speaker 2: make that decision that would be looked at so poorly

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Speaker 2: by their fan base and rightly so. I don't care

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Speaker 2: what the return is. You've got one year left with

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Speaker 2: the one or two best pitchers in the game. He's

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Speaker 2: right there with Skiens. Take your pick, and you have

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Speaker 2: a chance to win with him. You've built your team

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Speaker 2: to try to win with him. Kenley Jansen of course

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Speaker 2: came over. They have done some other things as well.

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Speaker 2: And now you're going to say we're pulling the plug

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Speaker 2: with Jansen and Finnegan in the bullpen. No, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: make much sense to me. And also if they did that,

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Speaker 2: if because they lose this arbitration or lost this arbitration

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Speaker 2: and had to pay him thirty two million, then the

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Speaker 2: question comes back to their original negotiating strategy with schoobl

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Speaker 2: Why didn't you just cut a deal with him when

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Speaker 2: you had the chance to before figures were exchanged. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you remember, I reported this and some Detroit reporters

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Speaker 2: followed up on it as well, their offer to Schooble

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Speaker 2: was just a touch above David Price's record nineteen point

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Speaker 2: seventy five million, a touch above. If you wanted to

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Speaker 2: get this done, you probably had to be more than

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Speaker 2: just a little bit above. You probably had to go

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Speaker 2: into the twenties. Why they didn't do that, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they felt like the pirates, this is the proper

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Speaker 2: value we're gonna win this case. He knows to arbitation,

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Speaker 2: but that's where it is.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, Ken, that was my bad. I just knocked a

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Speaker 5: cup over.

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Speaker 3: And I'm just gonna say this.

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Speaker 1: I've said this before on here, and we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into this whole Schoobl thing. This doesn't end well for anybody.

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Speaker 1: Ask Corbyn Burns, ask anybody that's gone. I've been to arbitration.

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Speaker 1: This is an awful process, no matter if he wins

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Speaker 1: or losing. Even if he wins, I won and I

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Speaker 1: still walked out of there going that sucked. That team

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Speaker 1: hates me and they just and when I did it,

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Speaker 1: I had just gotten traded for right and I and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, that team hates me. Now, imagine Schoobl who's

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Speaker 1: been there five years, five plus years, won two cy

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Speaker 1: Young's basically carried him to the playoffs twice, and he's

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Speaker 1: gonna walk out of there no matter what they say

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Speaker 1: about him. He's gonna be like, and they don't really

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Speaker 1: dig me that much, So why would I don't know?

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Speaker 1: It's just it's just bad optics. It's a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: And I tell you what, it's gonna be fascinating to

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Speaker 1: see who wins and lose, because someone's gonna be really

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Speaker 1: happy and someone's gonna be really pissed.

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Speaker 2: Question is, of course, with this, how am I which

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Speaker 2: was Major League Baseball and the Labor Relations Department influencing

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Speaker 2: what happened here? How much did they sit on the

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Speaker 2: Tigers to stay at nineteen million with their filing number

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Speaker 2: and not to go above nineteen point eight or whatever

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Speaker 2: it was for their offer initially? That is a question

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Speaker 2: that needs to be asked. This is not just on

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Speaker 2: the Tigers. Just as the Union is responsible in some

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Speaker 2: respects for the players ask the league is responsible for

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Speaker 2: how the teams go about it in arb and that's

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Speaker 2: part of this equation too. So I don't want to

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Speaker 2: put it just on the Tigers when there is more

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Speaker 2: going on here. Yep.

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Speaker 5: And we're going to continue on this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, hold on, well, we have cancers. He

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Speaker 1: brought it up. I said this from the get go.

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Speaker 1: This with a negotiating year this year, this is a

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Speaker 1: chance for the owners to say, hey, arbitration doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: If they win against Schoogle, they'll say, you, guys, through

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Speaker 1: your best pitcher that's ever been through the arbitration process

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Speaker 1: at US and he couldn't make more than a guy

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Speaker 1: from fift ten years ago in twenty fifteen, David Price.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we should relook at this whole arbitration because the

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Speaker 1: owners hate arbitration, right. The players like it because they

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Speaker 1: get some more money sooner, but the owners hate it.

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Speaker 1: So it's also could be hey if they went because

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Speaker 1: if you also notice the timing of this case, Ken,

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Speaker 1: I believe it's the first arbitration case going right. Usually

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Speaker 1: they saved the big ones for last. This time they're like,

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Speaker 1: fuck that, We're putting this giant one up front with

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Speaker 1: so everyone sees the results, right, so you know that

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Speaker 1: they're throwing. The MLB is throwing all they have at it,

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Speaker 1: and I know Boris is throwing. I mean, Boris is

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Speaker 1: probably gonna be the guy that does the arbitration, right,

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Speaker 1: He's probably gonna sit in the room and actually make

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Speaker 1: the argument. That would be something if we had Boris

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Speaker 1: on one side and Manford on the other side and

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Speaker 1: they're they're arguing at each other, because that would be

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Speaker 1: unbelievable if we could get a camera in there. But

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Speaker 1: this means so much for the players, and it means

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Speaker 1: so much for the owners that this literally is a

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Speaker 1: historic arbitration case. Whether you care or not, this for

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Speaker 1: baseball is a historic case. And whatever happen. And again,

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Speaker 1: they don't tell you why you want or lost. They

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Speaker 1: just call you and say, hey, you want or you lost.

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Speaker 1: There's no no way explains it. Nobody says this or that.

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Speaker 1: So whoever wins is gonna be a lot richer and

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Speaker 1: whoever loses is going to be really pissed off.

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Speaker 2: Aju did not overstate it. This is a huge thing. Exactly.

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Speaker 4: There you go. We'll have blow by blow coverage tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: Not just kidding, but ken, thank you appreciate it. We'll

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Speaker 4: check in later this week.

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Speaker 5: Thanks guys, fair territory.

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Speaker 4: Will I'm sure talk about this on Thursday if you

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Speaker 4: have questions. I wish we had blow by blow coverage.

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Speaker 4: I wish we could live stream this thing so damn badly.

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Speaker 3: I'd pay more.

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Speaker 5: Streamer needs to get it. Somebody needs to do it.

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Speaker 4: At MGM futures regular season wins for the Rockies, Well, aj,

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Speaker 4: you didn't want to mid eighties. The Rockies are wondering

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Speaker 4: if aj is going to go over or under on

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Speaker 4: their fifty two and a half wins for twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Your thoughts, this is going to be hard to believe it.

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Speaker 1: I'm going over fifty two and a half because to

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Speaker 1: lose a hundred they'd have to lose one hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten games. Like that's White Sox terrible asque. I think

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Speaker 1: they're gonna they win. They'll win fifty seven games, fifty

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Speaker 1: Your crass is going under fifty two games. They'll win

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Speaker 1: thirty at home just because of the of the altitude.

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Speaker 1: So I can't I can't go under fifty two. They

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Speaker 1: would have to lose one hundred and ten games. I

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Speaker 1: don't wish that upon anybody. They are they a better

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Speaker 1: team than last year. I don't know, They're not gonna

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Speaker 1: be worse. It's all go ahead, Scott.

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Speaker 5: I would say they're a better team, just like Scott

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Speaker 5: Harris said.

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Speaker 4: The Tigers are better because everybody grows a year older,

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Speaker 4: so then you get a little better.

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Speaker 5: I mean it is the same concept.

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Speaker 4: They have a lot of young players, they have young

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Speaker 4: talent in the miners, so I would say just by

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Speaker 4: process of baseball results balancing out, they might they might

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Speaker 4: get to, you know, mid fifties. So for me, I

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Speaker 4: am joining aj. I'm taking the over It might not

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Speaker 4: be a crazy over, but I do think it is

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Speaker 4: tough in baseball to assemble a team that is so

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Speaker 4: crazy bad that they're able to get to that mark.

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Speaker 5: So I could see them losing one oh seven.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 5: I think it could be close. I think this could

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Speaker 5: be a hook situation.

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Speaker 4: But I'm going to go slightly over, And looks like

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Speaker 4: Kratz has decided that this team is what one ten

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Speaker 4: plus loss on the board.

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Speaker 3: One ten plus loss the fact that routinely, I mean,

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Speaker 3: somebody's going to make the All Star team, it is not.

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Speaker 3: It is not Hunter Goodman, and the person is close

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Speaker 3: to ability to be traded. Here go. So yeah, I'm

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Speaker 3: taking one ten one ten losses.

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, maybe we'll place a friendly wager on that

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Speaker 4: one at some point, but for now, let's type the

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