WEBVTT - Monster Hunting 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:14.560 Forward Thinking and Welcome to Forward Thinking the podcast and 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.320 looks at the future and says scientists have proven that 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.520 the Sasquatch he is real. I am Jonathan Strickland, and 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.480 I'm Joe McCormick, and our other host, Lauren Vogelbaum, is 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.440 not with us today. She is not feeling well, but 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.639 she will be back with us next time. I like 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.080 to think that she's hunting monsters right now. I'm sure 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.120 that's what she's doing. Yeah, in fact, that's what we're doing. See, 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:40.879 we wanted to do a special Halloween themed episode or 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.920 two or four maybe four. Well, while Jonathan was out 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.159 if you haven't heard them, we, Lauren and I decided 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:50.760 we wanted to talk about monsters in the spirit of 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.520 October because we're all sort of horror fans are in here, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.680 but how could we talk about monsters on this podcast. Well, 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.560 it turns out there are a lot of ways we can. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.840 So we invited on our friend Robert Lamb from Stuff 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.840 to Blow Your Mind, are sort of resident monster expert, 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:09.640 to come talk to us about the future of monster. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.480 He's very good friends with Dr Anton Jessup, who is 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:16.960 uh is such good friends it's disturbing. Yeah, truly disturbing. 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.880 He's a ductor. Anton Jessup, if you aren't familiar, is 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.520 a an expert in monster science. Yeah, and so Robert 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.440 Lamb decided to come over and do some episodes, and 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.440 I was very disappointed that I could not be part 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:30.640 of them, although I must admit I was also having 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.960 an amazing time at the simultaneously while those episodes are 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.200 being recorded. Well, I'm sorry you couldn't be with us too, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.680 but you can be with us on these upcoming monster podcasts. Uh. So, 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:45.039 the one we wanted to talk about today was monster hunting, 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.160 because this is another thing that can sort of relate 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:51.400 to science and technology. Yeah, there is a quest that 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:56.280 many people have committed themselves too deeply in a heartfelt way, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.520 to go out into the dark spaces of the world 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.240 and find find the monsters that linger. Yes, for there 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.440 there be dragons. Well, there is sort of a sense 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:10.160 that technology and its progress throughout the years has eliminated 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.840 a lot of the strange creatures that we used to 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:17.640 think existed, but some people hold out hope. Yeah, I 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.959 mean I and I can totally understand that. So as 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.440 a kid, when I was in elementary school, I checked 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.760 out every single book in our elementary school library that 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.839 had to do with folklore, ghosts, aliens, and monsters. Those 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.280 were those were like my go toos, so much so 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.240 that I read them more than once. I tell you what, 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.320 when I was a child, I had my brain ruined 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.200 by these documentaries on TV about the Locknest Monster and 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.480 UFOs and stuff. Because I saw them presented in a 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.560 documentary format that was pretty much the same as the 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.519 format of stuff about uh, you know, animals and and 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.760 movie effects and all the other documentaries things like volcanoes 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.600 or whatever. I just assumed, Oh, okay, just totally normal 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:08.160 to believe in uh Sasquatch and Mothman all that stuff. Yeah, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.120 that's just part of the world, and it's an especially 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.880 cool part of the world, right, So why wouldn't I 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.440 believe in it? Yeah? And I was. I was very much. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.760 I don't know that I fully believed in everything, but 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.440 I knew I wanted to believe in them. And we'll 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.960 talk more about the psychology of believing in monsters and 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.760 hunting for monsters towards the end, but just keep in 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.200 mind that. As a kid, I was one of those people, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.600 and as I grew up, I was too, I think 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.120 I I as I by the time I hit high 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.320 school and I was already developing a much more skeptical 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:46.640 view of the world. And I remember loving, uh mockumentaries 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.920 that had to do with monster hunting. There was one 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:53.400 called Phil and Arthur as a pair of British comedians 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:59.800 who did a Luckness Monster special where they were investigating 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:06.360 the Lockness Monster and absolutely parodying everything about Lockness Monster investigations. Um. 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.480 And I remember it came on the public broadcast station 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.560 and we videotaped it. We had videotapes back in those days. Kids, 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.679 and U so, yeah, I have at my parents house 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.000 somewhere there's a videotape that may or may not still 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.720 be in playable condition. Um. That was one of my 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.840 cherished possessions because even as a high school student, even 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.599 at that point where I had kind of decided to 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.240 put away the belief in these things, I still harbored 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.520 this fascination for it. So it didn't believe was not 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:42.520 a requirement. Well so beyond the realms of just wishing 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.560 for these things to be true and liking the mystery 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.600 and strangeness of the creatures. There are people who are 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:53.080 really interested in the question of whether some supposedly existing 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.440 strange animal is actually out there. Yeah, and they dedicate 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.640 time to study something. But there's studying something for which 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.479 there is no evidence that actually exists. The evidence is 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.720 very shaky, right, There's nothing like an actual specimen, for example, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:15.279 to study. So uh, it's it's a type of pseudoscience 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.760 called crypto zoology. And the reason we call it pseudoscience 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.520 is because they don't have that hard evidence to actually 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.640 look into. Well, I want to hold up for a 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:27.560 second here and be fair and say I don't know 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.400 if it's necessarily right to call it a pseudoscience. And 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.440 now I'm not going out and saying that I believe 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.560 the Locknest Monster and Bigfoot and all these creatures exist. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.480 I I very much don't. But I think you could 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:43.599 use the scientific method to look into questions of whether 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.159 these creatures exist, or you could look for evidence. You 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.680 could make hypotheses about what you'd expect to find if 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.320 they did exist. You could test those and look for 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.000 evidence and either find it or not. I think you 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.760 could take a skeptical perspective to these questions absolutely, and 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.520 I say you should take a skeptical viewpoint to those questions. However, 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.080 you could end up saying the same thing about cold fusion. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.000 That doesn't make it science unless you find the actual 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.560 evidence to support it. It ends up being pseudo scientific. 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:15.800 Now if you find the evidence to support it, and 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.120 then you would have to say, all right, this is 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.200 no longer pseudoscience. We can actually make observations, we can 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.680 make predictions, we can test, we can replicate tests. Then 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.120 that's truly the element of science. But if you're talking 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:33.120 about let's say unicorns, that's if I sit there and 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.400 I claim like I want to discover whether or not 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.520 unicorns are real, well, all I can do is look 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:39.960 for evidence for it. If I don't find any evidence 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.000 for it, that doesn't necessarily mean that unicorns aren't real, right, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.800 It means I can't find the evidence. If you look 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.839 really hard and you can't find the evidence, they're probably 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.760 not real. Probably, but you can't say with certainty. So 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:52.520 this is this is why we put it into the 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.920 realm of pseudoscience until there's actually direct evidence for these things, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.400 in which case we no longer call it cryptozoology. For 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.080 that particular or incidents. We call it zoology because it 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.960 becomes uh an animal that we can actually or an 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.240 organism we can actually study. Until it reaches that point, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.840 then it falls into cryptozoology, which because we can't actually 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.920 point to evidence for it, we can't actually study an 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:20.600 actual example of it. We're just talking about things that 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:25.760 are based on folklore, on first firsthand or second hand 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:31.280 accounts of encounters with this stuff, or maybe some unreliable 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.960 media of it of some sort. Then we can't really 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.360 you know, without the direct observation of it, we can't 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.960 really call it a science. M Okay, I think we're 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.760 agreeing on the substance, just maybe disagreeing on how we're 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:47.119 using words. Sure, Uh well, I think if you ask 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:52.920 any any like skeptical organization about cryptozoology, they would classify 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.240 it as pseudoscience as opposed to science. But keeping in 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.320 mind that if you were to find an animal that 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:04.240 often gets lumped in under cryptids, these these hidden animals 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.360 that we have not discovered an actual uh sample of, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:10.640 then they would say, all right, well then that that 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.800 clearly falls into it, like we could exactly. Yeah, the 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.040 Ceila canth is a great example. Ceila canth is a 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.520 fish that we had long believed to have gone extinct, 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.800 and then of course a fisherman caught one, and then 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.520 the and the and the wasn't the only one. Well 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.080 if Phil and Arthur made that joke, because so there's 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.560 a Ceila cat which people believe would been extinct, then 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.400 a fisherman cult one, and now they are extinct. You know, 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.120 that's not exactly, that's not true. There are more ceila 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.920 can't out in the Okay, Jonathan, Before we talk about 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.760 the technology and the future prospect for looking for monsters, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.400 we should talk about what are the monsters that are 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.920 on the table. What what do people believe is out 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.520 there that we haven't actually verified yet. Well, cryptids come 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.760 in all shapes and sizes. They some of them are 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:00.320 are more quote unquote and monstrous than others. Mons stress 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:05.960 does not necessarily mean spooky, scary, nasty, mean evil. It 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:11.600 may mean that it's just something that's it's incredibly unusual large, uh, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.240 you know, something that is well outside the norm. But 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.080 cryptids in general, that could be anything, uh, that is 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:22.200 believed to exist but there's no proof for it. That 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.280 could be you know, pretty much any kind of living thing. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.679 I should say, because this doesn't really fall into the 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.280 realm of the spiritual and ghosts and that kind of stuff. 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.760 So um, pretty much anything that was rumored to exist 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.400 could fall into that category. Okay, so how about like 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.920 the Lockness Monster, one of my favorites when I was 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.880 a kid. In it then, because of course you saw 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:46.760 that picture or the thing coming out of the water, 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.200 the surgeon eld be well, and that was that was 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.360 probably out of all the monsters that I read about 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.480 when I was a kid, that was the one I 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.720 held onto the longest. That was the one I was 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.880 least willing to let go, right Like, Like, if you 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:08.120 think of my my progression into skepticism, the Lochness monster, 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.520 nessy she was. She was hard for me to say, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.120 all right, I don't really believe there's a monster in 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.679 Lochness anymore. It took me a very long time. So uh, 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.160 in case somehow you have managed to go through your 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:26.480 life without knowing about the Lochness Monster. Lochness is in Scotland. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:28.640 It's a lake in Scotland, or a loch. It is 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:32.600 very large lake. It is very deep, it's extremely deepest 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:36.280 formed by a glacier. Uh thousands and thousands and thousands 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.520 of years ago. Uh, it is connected by locks to 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.920 um to Are you going to keep saying that's the 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.800 way it's said. It's got the glottal stuff there. So 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.600 how did it end up with a dinosaur? And well, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.120 that's sort of the idea, right, that it's a pleasyasaur 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.560 like dinosaur monster. Yeah, they're different. There were always Well, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.600 first you had to ascertain the fact that there's supposedly 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.520 a monster here there first, right, and the very first 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.079 sighting goes all the way back to St. Columba and 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.680 Irish monk uh in the in sixth century Scotland, who's 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.440 supposedly encountered a sea beast or at least a lake 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.560 beast in the in the waters, and then calmed it 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.440 through Christianity. I'm not making any of this up. This 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.400 is all in in folklore. And then uh it does 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:30.959 you people knew yeah, essentially um and calmed it. It 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.599 was some sort of sea serpent in uh in the story. 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.680 But you don't really get any more stories about it 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:42.760 until the nineteen thirties. Actually three there was a monster 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:49.839 hunter named Marmaduke, which his name is It was Marmaduke. Uh. Yeah, 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:56.600 that was his first name. Um So Marma Duke, Marma 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:00.079 Duke Weatherell. It's the best name ever, isn't it. I 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.280 thought it was going to be like Marmaduke groteil Dip. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.440 I don't know. Weather Ell is pretty good though, Marmaduke 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.719 weather Ll. All right. So Marma Duke weather Ll had 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:17.640 been hired by a truly um uh historic and important journal, uh, 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.440 the Daily Mail, to go to to go and and 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.440 look into reports that there was supposedly a monster in 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:31.080 uh loch Ness. And so he went and discovered some tracks, 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.920 didn't find any actual like, he didn't see the monster himself, 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.840 but found some interesting tracks that were near the loch 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.440 and proclaimed them to be the actual tracks of a 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.240 monster living in Luchness. And then it turned out that 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.679 in fact those tracks had been made by a dried 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:54.320 out hippopotamus foot, which was at the time and at 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:59.840 the time and in early twentieth century England, hippo and 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:08.560 elephant feet were used as umbrella stands. Yeah, yeah, enlightened times. Anyway, Uh, 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.880 he was more or less humiliated, uh, And that is 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.000 important for a little bit later in the story. So 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.800 this is the time that we have the infamous surgeon's 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:26.720 photograph of NeSSI, although uh Dr Robert Kenneth Wilson, who 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.680 was the the person who supposedly took the image, was 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.960 not actually a surgeon. He was a guynecologist, but it 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.559 was always referred to as the surgeon's photograph. He had 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:40.000 produced this photo that's the iconic image of NeSSI, the 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.000 one where you see a neck extending out from the 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.560 lake with the head and it's you know, it looks 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.000 like a plesiosaur, like our our our imagination of what 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.320 a plesiosaur looked like. And so you see like a 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.040 hump behind the neck and head. Fortunately, there's i think 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.680 nothing in the photograph to give its scale. Well, the 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.320 the full photo makes it look like it's pretty tiny, 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.000 but the image that you always see is a cropped 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.560 image where it's yeah, the croped image has it where 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.000 you can't see any of the shore. You just see water. 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.800 And in that case, you have no no sense of scale. Right, 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.520 this thing could be enormous or it could be tiny. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.080 You don't know. Uh. In the full picture it looks 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.440 like it's a little smaller. You still don't have it's 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.320 still not close to the shore, so you can't be 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.560 entirely certain exactly how big it is, but it looks 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.320 like it would be smaller than what you would imagine 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.560 it up please please us, or to look like at 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.720 any rate. Uh. This photograph made huge news. I mean 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:43.400 it was incredibly successful and uh for many many decades 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:48.960 it was held out to be a true, authentic photograph 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:55.640 of a monster in the lake, until yeah, a man 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.760 named Christian Spurling claimed that in fact, the image and 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.960 the photograph was of a why submarine that had been 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.440 outfitted with a sea serpent neck and head and placed 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.440 in the lake. The photograph itself was not taken by 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.080 Dr Robert Kenneth Wilson, but rather a certain Marmaduke Weatherell, 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:19.560 who had been uh been stung his pride stung by 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.720 the treatment he had received from proclaiming the footprints to 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.320 be authentic, and then revealed that it was all a 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.200 hoax and his reputation had suffered as a consequence, and 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.280 he said, we'll give them a monster and so um 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.800 he took the photograph then gave it to Dr Wilson 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.120 as the person to actually proclaim he was the one 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.800 who took the photograph, because obviously weather all came forward, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.080 everyone would claim that was a hoax in the first place, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.400 right because he had already been involved in this. You know, 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:50.440 I want to go ahead and point out one thing 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.880 that's going to be relevant to our eventual point in 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.760 this episode, which is that I think the only reason 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:01.080 of photograph like this remained a prominent piece of evidence 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.880 for so long is how bad the photograph is. Yeah, 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.560 like that you could look at this and plausibly interpreted 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.200 as a monster is a fact that is based on 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.960 it being black and white, being often, at least as 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.880 I experienced it always cropped, and so not having any scale, 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:24.040 and being blurry, grainy, low resolution that old time you photography. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.840 You don't have any any detail on the monster at all. 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.680 You can't make out any features on the monster. Um, yeah, 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.240 it's all those things really aid quite a bit. Now, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.880 granted there have been a lot of other photographs of 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.240 of Lochness and the monster. You just every single time 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.400 I say it, You're just gonna shake your head, aren't you. Um, 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.080 You're you're If you keep saying it like that, I'm 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.960 eventually gonna believe in the monster at the lake. Working 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.560 me towards that the lake near Inverness, Scotland. UM. There's 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.600 been a lot of photographs since then, but many of 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.560 them are none of them are conclusive, right, none of 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:04.080 them are are uh convincing enough for you to say 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:08.280 this is conclusive evidence that there is a monster living 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.840 in that lake. And Nessie, you know, isn't the only 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.480 purported lake monsters. Now, there's so many. Basically every lake 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.320 that people go to has a monster. Everybody of water 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.600 that's been around long enough has a monster in it. So, uh, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:27.320 there's yeah champ in Lake Champlain, there's og Pogo, and 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:32.439 then there's all the other pogos that are supposedly lake monsters. Uh, 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.280 there are there's Big Blue. If you watch X files, 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.560 Uh did you remember that episode? Within saw that one? 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.040 It was it was set in Georgia. Actually Big Blue 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:48.640 was a supposed lake monster living in North Georgia. Um, 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:53.000 North Georgia Lake. And then it is revealed, well, there's 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.439 a false reveal spoiler alert for anyone who's making their 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.359 way through X files for the first time, there's a 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.520 it's a false reveal that it's actually a giant alligator 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.120 that was living in the lake. Never mind the fact 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.000 that no giant alligator could ever live in a North 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.240 Georgia lake. Those leaks are freezing cold. It would never 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.600 an alligator would never survive. But at the very very 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.679 end of the episode, of course, Big Blue pops up 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.639 out of the lake, unseen by anyone other than the viewer. 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:21.960 So it's a little wink and a nod of oh, 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.440 there really is a monster. Well, they gotta keep mystery alive. Yeah, well, 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.680 even though they never go back to that lake ever again. 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.760 But at then you're right, um, Yeah, there's lots of 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.360 different lakes and rivers that supposedly have monsters in them, 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.600 and this this is all over the world, obviously, not 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.960 just We're focusing a lot on North America in this 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.560 episode because that's where we live, but there are all 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.160 over the world stories of lake and river monsters. Okay, 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.000 before we get to the tech, I think we should 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.240 talk about one other big monster, which also comes in 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.439 many varieties. Like the lake monsters. You've got the large 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:57.159 hairy humanoid, yes, big foot slash, sasquatch slash, the skunk 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:01.760 gape slash, the swamp ape slash, the Yet how many 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.320 other names are there for there's yahwe you gotta say, yeah, 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.880 that's the Australian one. Okay, yeah, so yeah, they're these 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:13.359 are essentially the the large harry ape like creatures. Generally 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.919 they tend to be described as a missing link between 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.800 the great apes and man um and there are a 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.119 lot of different varieties, but they all are basically harry 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.800 arboreal critters that I've seen it often referred to as 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.560 the missing link between Neanderthals and Homo sapiens, which means 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.879 people don't even understand the common view on human descent 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.199 that we didn't evolve from Neanderthals, right, and even if 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.960 we did, it seems like Bigfoot would have been a 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:47.560 step back based upon he's a prete hairy guy. Well, 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:52.640 I mean, it's almost suspicious the fact that this widely 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.520 varying concept of monster really seems to coincide with what 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.280 a human would look like in an ape suit. Yeah, 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:04.840 it's almost almost almost suspicious, almost suspicious. Yeah, you would 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.080 if you were, if you were a cynical type, you 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:12.400 might say that this was all based off of flim flam. Yeah. 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.679 But okay, so tons of people have claimed to actually 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.520 see these, to photograph them, to capture some kind of 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.000 some kind of empirical evidence, and before I before I 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.840 go into kind of the the dawn of the big 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.400 foot age here in North America, I have to ask 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.240 you are you are you familiar with the term skunk ape? 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.280 Were you personally familiar with that term? I'd read about 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:36.600 it before. That's a Florida thing, Yeah, mostly Florida, North Carolina. Also, yeah, 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.160 it was one of those things where I had heard 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.960 about it as a kid. Now I was born in 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.560 the seventies. Nineteen seventy four was when there was a 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.879 rash of skunk cape sightings in Florida. And for the 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:49.480 longest time when I was a kid, I mean I 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.879 read about skunk capes right there. That was because I 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:56.360 kept on checking out all the folklore books in my right. 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.160 So when I talk about skunk capes these days, people 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.159 are look at me like, what the heck are you 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.240 talking about. I've never heard of such a thing. And 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.680 it wasn't until I watched um Rob Zombies House of 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.720 a Thousand Corpses where there is a television news item 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.359 going on in the background of one of the scenes 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.880 where they're talking about skun cape, where I thought, oh, 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.720 thank goodness, I didn't just imagine that from my childhood 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:22.520 there's validation. Well, to go to where the bigfoot craze 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.680 started here in North America, you gotta look back at 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.760 the infamous film that was made in nineteen sixty seven. 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.399 That's the one everybody's seen with the loping thing looking 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:36.080 back over its shoulders. Yeah, it's it's twists. It's torso 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.040 to look back because looking back over its shoulders being 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.200 really generous. It turns its whole upper body around in 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:45.320 order to look back and is loping through woods in 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:50.439 northern California at a pretty rapid pace. And um, there 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.159 are some people who proclaimed that the movement's made in 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.840 that film are those that a human could never make. 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:00.600 There are others who say, we don't know what speed 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.399 the film was shooting at, and that's very important because 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.440 based on the film speed, uh, it may be that 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:11.639 it's just like a human would move. But if the 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:14.080 film was shot at a different speed, then it makes 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.359 it look like it's something that a human would not 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:21.600 be able to uh to ape pun intended, even without 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:26.640 seeing it, that argument sounds specious. Tool like that. Well, 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:28.879 nineteen sixty seven was when this film was made, and 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.280 it was made by Bob Jimlin and Roger Patterson Um, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.160 and they shot it in Bluff Creek in northern California. 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.800 And the interesting thing is that there are a lot 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:45.240 of stories about this how this this film came to 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:49.200 be made UM, including stories that reveal at least some 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:53.960 level of hoax. So there was a guy named Ray 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.960 Wallace who passed away in two thousand two, who was 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:01.040 something of a prankster. He enjoyed a good prank now 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:05.080 and then. And his son, Michael Wallace says that his 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.399 father had a wood cover create a pair of sixteen 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.280 inch long feet out of wood that you would strap 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.800 on to your to your own feet, so like giant 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:20.080 sandals essentially, and you could go tramping around wherever, making 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:25.400 enormous tracks in the process. And his his dad, Ray Wallace, 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:30.400 owned a construction company that built logging roads in northern California. 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.760 So you had all these big roads with a lot 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.919 large equipment going back and forth across them where there 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:39.440 was ample opportunity to make some interesting tracks in the mud, 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:42.239