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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Oh, welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Thursday, November twentieth, and

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Speaker 2: guess what, we have a stacked night of headlines. Here's

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Speaker 2: the thing, everybody, from this point forward, we are not

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Speaker 2: going to say the word Epstein tonight, I promise, unless

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Speaker 2: you call in and tell us otherwise. We are putting

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Speaker 2: Epstein on a shelf for the evening. And i'men to

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Speaker 2: that because listen, there's a lot of things happening right now.

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Speaker 2: We're going to be discussing the controversial Jesse Butler case

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Speaker 2: and why Oklahoma has erupted in protest. Also, a judge

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Speaker 2: drops the felony charge against Ashley Buzzard remembers she the

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Speaker 2: mother of missing nine year old Melody. We've been talking

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Speaker 2: about this so much. Where is Melody and what does

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Speaker 2: that mean? And plus that news anchor, Remember we talked

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Speaker 2: about her earlier last week. I believe she's murdered her

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Speaker 2: mother while her mother was in bed? How could that

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Speaker 2: possibly happen? And what is there more to that story?

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Speaker 2: So we'll be unpacking that as well. And also we're

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Speaker 2: doing a bit of a deep dive back into some

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Speaker 2: of the cases that we just really care about want

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Speaker 2: to highlight because sometimes justice is not served the first

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Speaker 2: time until we talk about it right and unpack it

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Speaker 2: and prevent it from happening again. So the Central Park

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Speaker 2: five and the La Rampart scandal is our two cases

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Speaker 2: that are very close to our hearts, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to uncover those and talk a little bit more about

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Speaker 2: them as well. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Faddy Movin

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Speaker 2: and Courtney Armstrong as always my True Crime mates. How

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Speaker 2: are you both tonight?

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Speaker 3: Excellent? It's cold, I'm cold? Is everything child too? It's

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Speaker 3: been raining, it's been yes inhaling and who it's been wild,

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Speaker 3: But I'm cozy.

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Speaker 2: Though it's cozy time. Are you in sweater weather.

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Speaker 3: Or what am I'm in sweater weather? I love that.

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Speaker 2: By the way, are your Christmas lights up?

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Speaker 3: I don't do Christmas lights or totally.

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Speaker 4: Fair or holiday lights.

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Speaker 2: By the way, when I say Christmas, this is not

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Speaker 2: a this is a non denominational holiday.

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Speaker 3: Of course, No, I just it's just me. So I'm

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Speaker 3: just whatever. I go to people's houses and I enjoy it.

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Speaker 5: There no Christmas tree. I've got the little Charlie Brown

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Speaker 5: tree rore. That's what I do. Yeah, so I'm.

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Speaker 6: Not allowed to have it up yet because wed my

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Speaker 6: husband he feels not until Thanksgiving, which our tradition is

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Speaker 6: the day literally the day after so.

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Speaker 3: Black usually when we would do it too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you black Friday shop online and then also put

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Speaker 2: up the tree. I am really jumping the shark this year.

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Speaker 2: You go on, Oh, I have two Christmas trees up,

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Speaker 2: by the way, I'm not like a wild holiday decorator,

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Speaker 2: so this is very unique to this particular holiday. But

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Speaker 2: it's just been a weird year, and I am claiming

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Speaker 2: some cheer and happiness come hell or high water the end.

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Speaker 2: So suddenly I have holiday cheer everywhere, and I'd like

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Speaker 2: to spread it.

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Speaker 3: So oh, I love that.

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Speaker 2: I would have beaten me up this time last year,

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Speaker 2: So I am changing my tone.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, there's so much to get to and listen.

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Speaker 2: We have a ton of talkbacks from last night's shows,

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Speaker 2: so let's get the first one going.

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Speaker 7: Hi, everyone, This is Julie again. I love True Crime

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Speaker 7: Tonight and I've listened to every single episode. I'm currently

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Speaker 7: listening to Crazy in Love as well. I know you

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Speaker 7: don't produce that anymore, but it's really good. I'm wondering

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Speaker 7: if you can comment on the Silwater, Oklahoma case of

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Speaker 7: Jesse Butler, who at seventeen committed or was convicted of

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Speaker 7: ten rape related charges.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, can we ever?

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Speaker 6: Yes, we certainly can. We certainly can. And also thank

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Speaker 6: you for listening. And we're so glad that you're enjoying

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Speaker 6: Crazy in Love that just came up last week.

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Speaker 4: Did we just talk about that?

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Speaker 3: Maybe that's why, Yeah, we did.

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Speaker 2: We talked about it, so in case you're not aware,

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Speaker 2: And again this is not a shameless plug, but Katie,

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Speaker 2: we made a podcast called Crazy in Love. We did

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Speaker 2: fifty two episodes, so it was a big bear of

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Speaker 2: a project, and every episode is basically about a love

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Speaker 2: story that all starts with white picket fences and perfect

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Speaker 2: love and it somehow ends in murder and you know,

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Speaker 2: we've all lived it. There's unfortunately, there's so many stories

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Speaker 2: to tell, but man, they were harrowing and interesting and

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Speaker 2: there's no words to describe how much psychology came out

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Speaker 2: in all of them, and you'll recognize the amazing Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong's a voice and her hard work in it.

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Speaker 6: So Hi five, well, high five back at you, Stephanie,

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Speaker 6: because you were right that we did those fifty two

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Speaker 6: step by so a lot of episodes.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of episodes. We love that show, though

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Speaker 2: we want to do more.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, But your question about Jesse Butler, Yes, this is

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Speaker 6: a case that absolutely should be talked about.

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Speaker 4: Just a quick catch up.

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Speaker 6: He's eighteen years old now, with seventeen at the time,

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Speaker 6: as you said, But Jesse Butler was arrested this wasn't

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Speaker 6: stillwater at Oklahoma back in March of this year for

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Speaker 6: assaulting two high school students. He pleaded no contest to

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Speaker 6: eleven charges. These charges include first degree rape and domestic

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Speaker 6: assault by strangulation. Okay, this guy, Jesse Butler, was facing

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Speaker 6: up to seventy eight years in prison. However, a judge

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Speaker 6: sentenced him to community service and counseling and no time

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Speaker 6: in prison due to a plea deal. Victims and their

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Speaker 6: families criticized the justice system for excuse Butler for these

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Speaker 6: eleven brutal charges. And many attribute his lenient sentence to

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Speaker 6: the family's local prominence. So yeah, the father was he

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Speaker 6: used to he was the former director of operations for

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Speaker 6: the Oklahoma State University's football team.

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Speaker 3: Oh, here we go.

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Speaker 6: But it's an outrage. It is an outrage, and I

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Speaker 6: think it's an absolute injustice. What he did to these

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Speaker 6: two high school students was horrible beyond it's unthinkable.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, what has been done here. This is one of

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Speaker 2: those cases that should get under all of our skin.

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Speaker 2: It is unimaginable pain that families have experienced as a result,

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Speaker 2: and really an unfair look at what the justice system

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Speaker 2: can look like.

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Speaker 6: And these two brave high school girls came forward with

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Speaker 6: these allegations in addition the ones I said also battery

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Speaker 6: by strangulation, and the families are outrage And the mother

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Speaker 6: of one of the victims this was in an impact statement.

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Speaker 6: She criticized how her daughter quote had to prove she

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Speaker 6: was the victim over and over again while the system

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Speaker 6: made excuse after excuse for the person who hurt her.

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Speaker 6: My daughter has handled this with more strength than most

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Speaker 6: adults could. Watching her stay brave while adults failed her

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Speaker 6: has been both inspiring and heartbreaking and.

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Speaker 2: By the way, what a hard lesson to have to

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Speaker 2: learn so young. And they should also know this is

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Speaker 2: not their end story. This is not the story that

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Speaker 2: will define them. But it's impossible to be a victim.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not that it matters, Courtney, But how old were

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Speaker 3: the victims?

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Speaker 6: They were in high school? They weren't high school. Okay,

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Speaker 6: so probably sixteens. Yeah, maybe exactly, so sad, that's terrible.

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Speaker 3: It's eleven charges and he got community service and these

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Speaker 3: girls were bruised.

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Speaker 6: And okay, I'll give you one more snippet if I

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Speaker 6: may have an impact statement, And this was from one

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Speaker 6: of the victims. Ok And she said, I've had to

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Speaker 6: explain bruises, explain silence, Explain why I started isolating from

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Speaker 6: people who love me. You didn't just strangle me with

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Speaker 6: your hands. You strangled my voice, my joy, my ability

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Speaker 6: to feel safe in my own body.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my god, says every victim who's been through

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Speaker 2: anything even close to that. Right. So, I think this

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Speaker 2: is a new day. I just want to say it.

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Speaker 2: I think we are entering an important time where all

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Speaker 2: of us this is not this is genderless men and women.

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Speaker 2: I think we could all agree not okay, and that

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Speaker 2: anybody who suffers in this way should be held accountable

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Speaker 2: for who's done this seteen months ago, yeah, fresh off

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Speaker 2: the presses. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: And to answer your previous question, the two victims' most

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Speaker 6: report where it's say there were sixteen at the time

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Speaker 6: of the offenses. One report mentions one victim was fourteen

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Speaker 6: and the other sixteen. But again most of them say

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Speaker 6: they were two sixteen year olds, you know, and just

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Speaker 6: high school students. So I'm glad you asked about that

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Speaker 6: in your talk back because people should know some of

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Speaker 6: the crimes and sentencings that go along with it. And Stephanie,

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Speaker 6: you are correct, and I think it's worth repeating that

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Speaker 6: this is not the end of their story for these.

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Speaker 4: No, this is not the story, right.

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Speaker 2: The happier things will fill your life, that will replace

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Speaker 2: or absolutely maybe overwhelm some of these terrible things that

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Speaker 2: are such memories, can be so brutal post such an

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Speaker 2: attack or such a all of the things. We know this,

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Speaker 2: So I don't know. I think we're just hearing so

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Speaker 2: much about violence against young people and impressionable people. It's

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Speaker 2: not okay, it's not your fault. It's not your fault.

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Speaker 4: This is community service should not be the answer.

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Speaker 6: Sorry, I can rage and curse and spict is what

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Speaker 6: I would like to do with what this sentence was.

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Speaker 6: But we are going to move forward because we have

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Speaker 6: a couple of other stories to share. So I'm Courtney,

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Speaker 6: I'm here with Stephanie and Body, and we have been

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Speaker 6: talking about the Jesse Butler case and the injustice in

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Speaker 6: the sentencing as viewed by us. And I'd say just

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Speaker 6: about everyone, probably except for his family. If you have

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Speaker 6: your thoughts, we want to hear from you eight to

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Speaker 6: eight three one crime or hit us on the talkbacks

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Speaker 6: and Body, this case brought to our memories a couple

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Speaker 6: of other cases, if.

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Speaker 2: You want to get into it.

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Speaker 3: It did brock Turner. I know that we have mentioned

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Speaker 3: this case before, We've never really talked about it.

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Speaker 2: No, we should know.

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Speaker 3: Our theme tonight is injustice and Brockturner was the first

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Speaker 3: thing that when Taha called me today, I was like

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Speaker 3: brock Turner and so yeah, brock Turner. Brock Turner. He

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Speaker 3: was This is about ten years ago. He was a

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Speaker 3: nineteen year old Stanford student in the Bay student. He

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Speaker 3: was a swimmer and he was arrested in January of

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Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, after two graduate students witnessed him sexually assaulting

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Speaker 3: an unconscious woman. This woman was later identified publicly as

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Speaker 3: Channel Miller. Evidence showed the victim was very intoxicated, she

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Speaker 3: was unconscious, and she was physically injured. A year later,

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Speaker 3: in March of twenty sixteen, Turner was convicted of three

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Speaker 3: felony counts related to that assault and sexual penetration of

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Speaker 3: an intoxicated and unconscious person. The prosecutors in the case

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Speaker 3: sought a six year prison term, while probation officers recommended

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Speaker 3: a shorter sentence based on his lack of you know,

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Speaker 3: prior convictions. He didn't really have a criminal history. Judge

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Speaker 3: Aaron Persky sentenced Turner to six months in county jail

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Speaker 3: with three years probation and mandatory sex offender registration. Turner

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Speaker 3: Sir Brock Turner. He served three months of the sentence,

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Speaker 3: after which was after which he was required to return

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Speaker 3: to Ohio register as a sex offender in complete probation conditions.

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Speaker 3: The sentence like it was, this was you guys remember

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Speaker 3: this ten years ago. This was absolutely There was a

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Speaker 3: recall vote based on this because of the people were

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Speaker 3: so angry at this judge in California that it generated

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Speaker 3: really significant national criticism and you know, resulted in a

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Speaker 3: high profile campaign that led to the judge being recalled

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Speaker 3: by voters in twenty eighteen. He lost his job over this.

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Speaker 3: Public reaction to the case led to the changes in

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Speaker 3: California law, increased attention to the campus sexual assault policies,

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Speaker 3: and the publication of Channel Miller's memoir Know My Name.

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Speaker 3: I thought that was really powerful of her to do

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Speaker 3: excerpts of one of her impact statements. Instead of taking

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Speaker 3: time to heal, I was taking time to recall the

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Speaker 3: night in excruciating detail in order to prepare for the

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Speaker 3: attorney's questions that would be invasive, aggressive and designed to

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Speaker 3: steer me off course, to contradict myself, phrased in ways

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Speaker 3: to manipulate my answers. My damage was internal, unseen. I

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Speaker 3: carry it with me. You took away my worth, my privacy,

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Speaker 3: my energy, my time, my safety, my intimacy, my confidence,

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Speaker 3: and my own voice until today. Is that well said?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I mean that is a list of lists. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: so true. It's so true, it is, and you know,

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Speaker 3: so yeah, that brought national outrage. I remember everybody was

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Speaker 3: talking about it. It was right before Me Too, like

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Speaker 3: a couple of years before Me Too. And when the

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Speaker 3: Me Too movement started, people were bringing up Rock Turner.

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Speaker 3: He was kind of like the case that you would

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Speaker 3: look to when you're talking about in justice against women.

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Speaker 3: And you know, the victim in this case has just

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Speaker 3: done really well. You know, this memoir is is very

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Speaker 3: well done. She's very well spoken, and I just wish

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Speaker 3: hear nothing but the best. Oh, I wish hear nothing

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Speaker 3: but the best.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, And if you or someone you know has been

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Speaker 6: a victim of sexual abuse, you can text the word

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Speaker 6: strength to the crisis text line. It's seven four to one,

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Speaker 6: seven four to one, and you will be connected to

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Speaker 6: a counselor.

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Speaker 2: And listen.

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Speaker 6: Keep it here, because we're going to go into one

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Speaker 6: of the most infamous, wrongful conviction cases in American history.

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Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight an iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lyidecker here with

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Speaker 2: my two favorite ladies on this beautiful Thursday night. I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephanie ly Decker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body Moven

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Speaker 2: and of course we have producer Taha and Sam and

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Speaker 2: Adam in the control room waiting for your call. Please

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Speaker 2: jump in eight eight eight three one crime, or you

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Speaker 2: can always leave us talk back at True Crime Tonight's

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Speaker 2: show on Instagram and Facebook. No, no Instagram and TikTok,

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Speaker 2: or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. That's to leave

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Speaker 2: us a little DM By the way, the talkbacks, you

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Speaker 2: just download the iHeartRadio app and there's a little microphone

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Speaker 2: in the top right hand corner and boom, you're on

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Speaker 2: the show. So listen, We've been talking about some controversial cases.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're so grateful for the caller that called

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Speaker 2: in earlier about Crazy in Love, which has bonded the

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Speaker 2: conversation about Jesse Butler. And it seems like we're just

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Speaker 2: seeing a lot into cases where the sentence doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: equal the crime, and the question is why. And I

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Speaker 2: think the obvious answer is money, right, good lawyers, a

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Speaker 2: little white privilege on the side, and suddenly what seems

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Speaker 2: like a very big deal is suddenly brushed under the

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Speaker 2: carpet because somebody has connection. And the idea that that

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Speaker 2: continues to happen for me personally is maddening, and I

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Speaker 2: know we can all do better, So it's important that

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Speaker 2: we talk about it. I read.

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Speaker 6: Can I just say one more thing about Jesse Butler.

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Speaker 6: There was a protest just very recently because people are outraged.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they should be, because it's outrageous.

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Speaker 6: So again, it was supposed to be a seventy eight

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Speaker 6: year sentence for the eleven counts.

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Speaker 2: It's almost eighty years. Almost eighty years his whole life, basically.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and here's what one protester said, her name is

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Speaker 6: Tory Gray. The justice system here in Stillwater has allowed

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Speaker 6: a violent sex offender to walk free. Not only is

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Speaker 6: he currently free and loose on the streets, he's a

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Speaker 6: virtual student at Stillwater Public Schools as a senior. After

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Speaker 6: he finishes having the slap on the wrist, he doesn't

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Speaker 6: even have to register as a sex offender. He will

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Speaker 6: be conte quence free.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but doesn't that track because again we're seeing that

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Speaker 2: on a larger scale globally with you know the name,

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Speaker 2: we will not mention on a very big scale right

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Speaker 2: of very powerful, influential, financially stable. Honestly, it's it's likely

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Speaker 2: a lot of you know, white privilege at its best,

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Speaker 2: do what it's saying, and the justice system should not

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Speaker 2: be rigged that way we're talking.

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Speaker 5: Should, but I mean this is for me, Like I

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Speaker 5: feel like sometimes we talk about this, I've seen it

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Speaker 5: happen so long and so often that I don't know

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Speaker 5: whether I've become jaded or numb to it, or like

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Speaker 5: this case doesn't shock me, or these kind of things

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Speaker 5: don't because I've seen it happen so often, So this

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Speaker 5: isn't new to me, and it's not one people like,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, this is such a shock. It's it's

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Speaker 5: horrible that it's happening. But maybe one of the positives

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Speaker 5: is more people are become ware. You know, social media

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Speaker 5: has made it so that it's spirals and people can

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Speaker 5: hear more about it. But I think, you know, I've

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Speaker 5: heard about these for my entire life, and I don't

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Speaker 5: feel like enough happens to take enough in your quality

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Speaker 5: happens on either side. So I don't know whether it's

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Speaker 5: me that it's like, maybe I'm too numb and jaded

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Speaker 5: because I see it so often. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I'm tah, You're exactly right.

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Speaker 6: It's a pervasive reality right now, and there's statistics to

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Speaker 6: back it up.

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Speaker 2: It's not even in your head. It's let's talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Like, okay, let's talk a really simple example of like

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Speaker 3: white privilege. Let's just talk about this. Let's lea is

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Speaker 3: crack cocaine versus cocaine? Okay, it's okay, so true. No, seriously,

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Speaker 3: cocaine is primarily used by white affluent people. Like let's

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Speaker 3: jet setters in Miami. Let's say New York. You know

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Speaker 3: a party in totally after hours, who's crack yous by

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Speaker 3: black people in that hood?

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Speaker 5: Right in the hood.

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Speaker 3: Five hundred grams of powder cocaine is a five year

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Speaker 3: mandatory minimum. Okay, well it was, it's recently been changed,

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Speaker 3: but this is the system that everything is built on, right,

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Speaker 3: five hundred grams is a five year mandatory minimum. Five

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Speaker 3: grams of crack is a five year minimum. Five hundred

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Speaker 3: grams versus five grams. Wow, And that's a really sick

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Speaker 3: and listen, white priviach doesn't mean that white people have

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Speaker 3: it easy either, That's not what it means. It just

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Speaker 3: means the system is built.

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Speaker 5: To protect ten in some ways. Exactly this gentleman himself,

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Speaker 5: like he has the family members that can make sure,

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Speaker 5: you know, even when I'm reading more about it, like

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Speaker 5: the judge granted him, he has a relationship with the

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Speaker 5: team and he was one of the coaches, so you know,

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Speaker 5: all of those things that I wouldn't have a family

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Speaker 5: member that's a coach or one of the lead members

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Speaker 5: of this university, so I probably wouldn't get the same advantage.

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Speaker 5: But they you know, I again, no, there's nothing.

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Speaker 4: Don't talk yourself out of it.

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Speaker 2: Taha. You're like, you're already backtracking on that. We're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to. I oh, well, this is just

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Speaker 2: how it is. Well, I think in a larger way,

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Speaker 2: it is not how the majority feels. And I know

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Speaker 2: we can do better. Number one, and money talks, right,

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00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 2: So how about the fact that if you have an

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Speaker 2: amazing lawyer, or you have amazing power or influence, these

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Speaker 2: things just go away. We're seeing that on every level

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Speaker 2: in this country right now, in the world, frankly, So

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Speaker 2: it's not a stain. I just know that we all

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Speaker 2: know that we can do better, and by talking about it,

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Speaker 2: we will.

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Speaker 4: What's a solve.

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Speaker 2: I don't have it in this exact second, but I

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Speaker 2: know we're all talking about it, hearing it, listening like

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Speaker 2: we can do better. And frankly, stories like this are

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Speaker 2: a reminder that we need to and we need to fast.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not fair.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I really agree totally. I just you know,

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Speaker 3: I think it's an important time. It's uncomfortable though, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's an uncomfortable topic.

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Speaker 5: It is.

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Speaker 4: It really is.

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Speaker 5: I mean sometimes even for me, like it's awkward even

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Speaker 5: talking about it with everyone, and then now publicly like,

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Speaker 5: but I have learned to vocalize certain things a little

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Speaker 5: bit more and then share it. Like I tell this

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Speaker 5: unusually odd story to one friend. I was like, you know,

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Speaker 5: I said, isn't it so odd whenever you get a

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Speaker 5: new car, not that I get a new car after that,

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Speaker 5: when you have that, you know, temporary registration, the police

385
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 5: all will always pull you over. And he's like, what

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Speaker 5: are you talking about. I'm like, every time I've gotten

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Speaker 5: a new car, when you have the temporary registration I

388
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Speaker 5: get I can't even make it down the street because

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Speaker 5: they pulled me over like two or three sem Yeah,

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Speaker 5: And I assumed everyone in the world experienced it because

391
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Speaker 5: I was so nonchalant about it. He was like, I

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Speaker 5: get new cars, I've had registration I never had, and

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Speaker 5: lo and behold, I learned. So it's little subtle things

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Speaker 5: that I think and assume. But it's just an unusual.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I will never forget. Like I was

396
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Speaker 2: at a grocery line. I'm very absent minded, as you

397
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Speaker 2: guys know. By the way, Taha looks like a movie star,

398
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Speaker 2: so I you know, I just want to like really,

399
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Speaker 2: but yes, I think that's a clean example. It's these

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Speaker 2: micro examples.

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Speaker 5: By the way.

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Speaker 2: Also, so I'm at a grocery line, I'm on a

403
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Speaker 2: girl's trip. I'm with two of my friends, both of

404
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: which are of color, but like again, like the most

405
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: perfect humans you've ever known, and we're online and typical

406
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: for me, I forget my license, I don't know where

407
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 2: my purses. Suddenly I've left my wallet in the red

408
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: aisle and blah blah blah. Right, so I'm confused, and

409
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: I'm holding up a huge line, and they're gracious and

410
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 2: they've seen this before, and lovely, lovely, lovely, and they

411
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 2: give me the time and the patience and we figure

412
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Speaker 2: it out and it's fine. And as we're leaving, my girlfriend,

413
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 2: who's African American and was like, that would.

414
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Speaker 4: Never happen to me. Wow, Like that just wouldn't.

415
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Speaker 2: And it was an example of a small way of

416
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: how I experienced the world in a different way. And

417
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 2: by the way, this is like the most extraordinary human

418
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: who is smarter than anyone I know, like.

419
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Speaker 4: All the things.

420
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Speaker 2: And yeah, so the criminal justice system is a little

421
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: bit stacked, right, so we have to talk about it

422
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: and it's uncomfortable and tah, I love you so much.

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00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: Number one and number two. Like the sentencing piece of

424
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: it also is equated to cash, right, whoever has those

425
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: money gets the best lawyer, regardless of color. You also,

426
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: whoever is the most cash in their pocket wins, and.

427
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 3: Who's likely to have generational wealth? Let you go, Yeah, right,

428
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: white people are because we white. As a white person,

429
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Speaker 3: I can say we've had more time in this country

430
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Speaker 3: without slavery and Jim Crow laws holding us down, right,

431
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 3: because Jim Crow is a big part of this, It's

432
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Speaker 3: a massive part of this. So just because the slaves

433
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: were free doesn't mean they were really free, right, right,

434
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 3: doesn't mean they were really able to start building money

435
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: for their family do things. I mean, listen, I don't

436
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 3: have any generational wealth. My mom owed money when she does,

437
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 3: if you know what I mean, Like like we're we're

438
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 3: not them, but we are not them, but white people

439
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 3: are you know, inherently more able to have generational wealth. Uh,

440
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 3: And you know that plays a really big part in

441
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: justice because like if you know, somebody that does have

442
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 3: generational wealth of any kind is going to be able

443
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 3: to be able to hire that lawyer.

444
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: Yeahs off the marking ticket because they know the cops,

445
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 2: father and grandfather and whomever.

446
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 5: Even like where you live, Like you know, I can't

447
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 5: afford to live in certain fluent areas if I can't,

448
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 5: and now I have a school system that is not

449
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 5: up to par, and I can't even get into those

450
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 5: colleges that others can sell. It's right, it's it's a

451
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 5: whole cycle that needs to be readjusted. But it's it's

452
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 5: a lot for us to at least we're talking about it,

453
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 5: and I think more people are aware of it. And

454
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: that's why so much what happened with this recent administration

455
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 5: that took away the minuscule advantages or steps that would

456
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 5: help to let some of those people in the back door,

457
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 5: if you will, of like the more higher league idly colleges.

458
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 4: Haha.

459
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 3: You mentioned this, and it just reminded me. They got

460
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 3: rid of the missing and murdered reports. So, oh my god, discuss.

461
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 4: Can we discuss this?

462
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: How have we not talked about this? As I know,

463
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: we're going like completely off the rails, but like are

464
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 2: very important.

465
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: Stuff, I know. So these are actually the.

466
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: Most important stuff in the spirit of this whole.

467
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: Show, the whole show, right, So all of us were

468
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 3: really kind of the missing and murdered Indigenous movement is

469
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 3: really important to us, right, all of us. We've done

470
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 3: podcasts about them, We've interviewed so many different tribal organizations.

471
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 3: You know, we try to get the word out as

472
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: best we can with our white faces, as best as

473
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 3: we can, right, and this.

474
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: Why wash we're without trying of course.

475
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: Not yeah, I mean we have. I mean anyway, this

476
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: this report that that details all these statistics and it's

477
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: really important has been scrubbed from the government websites because

478
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: they said it was DEI.

479
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, the Department of Justice removed this report, and that

480
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 6: was to imply it was to comply with the administration's

481
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 6: executive order that is against diversity, equity and Inclusion DEI initiatives,

482
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 6: which we're hearing so much about. And it's it's so terrible.

483
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 6: The removal of this report that was congressionally mandated, by

484
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 6: the way, and it was called not one more people.

485
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: I'll use the word again.

486
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 6: People are outraged, including the lawmakers who helped.

487
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: My senator about it because she was on the owners

488
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: who do well.

489
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 2: How do I I want to do the same thing

490
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: I had Senator? Oh no way, Okay, yeah, I mean,

491
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 2: and we have to talk about this stuff in it

492
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: top I know we're touching on topics that are close

493
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: to heart, but it's close to aur hearts. You know,

494
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: we're in this together, number one. You so are like

495
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: leading us to.

496
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 5: The right direction, number one.

497
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: And the we're missing indigenous movement is unimaginably.

498
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 4: It's so close to our hearts.

499
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: Okay, I says killing people in the streets, like we

500
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: know that's not okay my personal opinion, you're a maskless

501
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: person wearing a mask, and I.

502
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: Would fight back. I mean I would, I don't.

503
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: I don't even know how if you recover from the

504
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 2: trauma of that, let alone the experience in the confrontation.

505
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 2: So the reality is, I know we can all do better, period,

506
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: and I think we are. We're one step closer to

507
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 2: doing better. I know it, I know it in my heart.

508
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: Well, maybe for the you know, upcoming holiday season. I

509
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 3: will pray for that optimism that you have. Seriously, you

510
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: know what.

511
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I really look about how we can how

512
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: we have such a great community everybody have brought you

513
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: know this truth in tonight. Community is big, amazing and

514
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: mighty and strong and in alignment. By the way, we

515
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 2: don't have to agree. We're not like an agenda driven.

516
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 2: In fact, let's spark up the combo, like we want

517
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: to learn and understand. We're curious, this is a no

518
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: judgment zone. But how do we do better if we

519
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: can't talk about it?

520
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 5: And I think that's the key. I think that's the step,

521
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 5: is just communicating, just talking about it, like I've learned

522
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 5: something from each of you, and I think you learned

523
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 5: something from me. Of course, I think that's maybe that

524
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 5: little nugget that we're learning from each other. Someone out

525
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 5: there listening is like, oh, I didn't think of that perspective.

526
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 5: So maybe that's the first step. We all are just communicating,

527
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 5: talking amongst ourselves, educating other people, and look at it

528
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 5: from my angle, maybe that helps.

529
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 6: Maybe is sorry well, and it is important because things

530
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 6: that are and talked about. Just one more thing on

531
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 6: the Missing and Murdered Indigenous People Report. I remember and

532
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 6: Stephanie I have quoted this a thousand times. You know,

533
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 6: experts have said that Indigenous women, particularly, they're killed three

534
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 6: times murder victims, first in actual physical life and then

535
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 6: with law enforcement, and then in the media because nobody

536
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 6: says a word, he already says a word, then there

537
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 6: is no pressure on the justice system, and then it's

538
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 6: an absolute triangle of terror.

539
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: Have you guys heard of the Emily Pike case.

540
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 5: I have.

541
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's terrible.

542
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 5: It's terrible.

543
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 3: But I want to say, and I might be incorrect,

544
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 3: but I want to say that spurred on in Arizona,

545
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 3: the Turquoise alert and the turquois it did. Yeah, So

546
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: the turquoise alert is specifically for Indigenous peoples who have

547
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: gone missing. Like it's like an Amber alert, but it's

548
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 3: a turquoise alert, and I love that. Well, maybe we'll

549
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: talk about that. We've got some great feedback on our talkbacks.

550
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: We're going to be diving into those and later. One

551
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: of the biggest police corruption scandals in US history, the

552
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 3: LAPD's Rampart Division. Ooh sounds scary.

553
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: And listen, we want to hear from you. So, first off,

554
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: thank you for the talkbacks. We so love them. Keep

555
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: them coming. We're going to try to get through as

556
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 2: many as possible tonight, So let's head to a talkback

557
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: right now.

558
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 4: Good morning True Crime tonight.

559
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 8: This is Sarah from Michigan, and I have a feeling

560
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 8: that I'm going to be feeling like Stephanie did after

561
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 8: the whole BK thing because David I was very like

562
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 8: I was sold on not hanging him out to dry

563
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 8: yet because it didn't make sense to me why you

564
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 8: would dispose of a body in your own vehicle.

565
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: So it sounded like he was being framed.

566
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 8: But I might have to eat my words. I was

567
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 8: being too positive.

568
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 6: Don't be yourself, Sarah. Yeah, well we don't know though,

569
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 6: you know, we got free. Not only has there not

570
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 6: has he not been found guilty of anything. There has

571
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 6: not yet been a trial. He has not yet been

572
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 6: convicted or even arrested. So you know where a whole

573
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 6: bunch of steps away. Well that's the right mindset.

574
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: Sorry, but jump on no please, body, I was just

575
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: going to say, that's the right mindset. Innocent until proven guilty.

576
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: It's like we can't just jump in and start accusing

577
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: people or assuming things. That's such a dead end for

578
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: anybody named in an investigation. When it's wrongful, it's really

579
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: hard to come back from that. So I applaud the.

580
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 5: Holdout, and I'm still hopeful too, because I mean, you know,

581
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 5: it's something about it always felt too obvious, like do.

582
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: You want to know?

583
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 5: Videos with the body in the car, all of it

584
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 5: felt like this feels stage. But I don't know. I'm

585
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 5: going to still be hopeful like Stephanie and much like Sarah,

586
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 5: but I don't know, Boddy, you know more that's happened lately,

587
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 5: so maybe you're going to sway me to go the

588
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 5: other direction.

589
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,959
Speaker 3: I wanted to say a couple of things. Number one,

590
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: to Courtney's point, you know, he hasn't been convicted, there's

591
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: been no trial. And also we really haven't heard from

592
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: LAPD officially. All these like LAPD sources, right, It's not

593
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: like so and so with LAPD says right, it's an

594
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,719
Speaker 3: LAPD source, and we just really don't know who that

595
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 3: source is and how much they know about the case.

596
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 3: But there is an update. I'll go ahead, stuff let me,

597
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: I'll do the up. I'll save it for the end.

598
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: Oddly, I am losing hope.

599
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 3: What do you mean?

600
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: I actually think that there's more to it. I've in

601
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: the same way. I'm like, this poor guy is getting

602
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: like I think he did death by association here, Like,

603
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: let's like he had lost his whole tour. He's like

604
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: somehow being roped into some messy situation with this beautiful

605
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: young girl. How do we not have justice? And I

606
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: think for some reason, I woke up today feeling a

607
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: little bit like my spidey sense, which doesn't count. That's

608
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: my spidey sense, is not the court of law. So

609
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: let's acknowledge that first and foremost. But I don't know.

610
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 2: I think there's something too. I do think there's something

611
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: coming in the arrest department.

612
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 3: I do too, and at the very minimum, something about

613
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: grooming a child. She's fourteen years old, thirteen years old

614
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: when you know they were you know together or when

615
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: they got together. But on Tuesday, TMZ as we know,

616
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 3: citing law enforcement sources, reported that the LAPD Department considered

617
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 3: him a suspect in Solessa's death and this is the update,

618
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: and said investigators were looking into a specific trip that

619
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: happened earlier this year to a remote area in Santa

620
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 3: Barbara County.

621
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: That's where you lost me. I read that and I

622
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: tracked it. I like mapped it. I don't know. There's

623
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: something about the timeline there that doesn't feel It is

624
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,479
Speaker 2: a feeling that a fact, and feelings are not facts.

625
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: So allow me to be clear. This is my personal

626
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: I'm going on a limb here, and I don't do

627
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: this often, and I have been a little bit like

628
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: I I'm not buying the whole David thing. Really, I've

629
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: been saying this behind the scene at least, so when

630
00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: eating my words.

631
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 3: When people have been reaching out for contact about, you know,

632
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 3: with the LAPD to confirm what the spokesman has said

633
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 3: they or this you know LAPD source, a spokesperson with

634
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 3: the LPED said the department wouldn't confirm tmd's report. But

635
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 3: since then, other news organizations have also been reporting similar details,

636
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 3: so it seems like maybe this LAPD source might be

637
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: do it. So we need to keep that in mind

638
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 3: moving forward. But yeah, that's my David.

639
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: I think we have some real action happening very very soon.

640
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: I think as we speak, this is my prediction and

641
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: I'm off and wrong. So take this really just as

642
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: just air talking but my assessment is that this was

643
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: placed in the media on purpose. They're looking for everybody

644
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 2: to talk. David the pop star was living a fat

645
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: life twenty thousand dollars a month in rent at a

646
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: rental in the Hollywood Hills right before the famous Chateau

647
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: Marmond off of Sunset Boulevard. If you don't know Hollywood, it's.

648
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 4: Like tray the spot.

649
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: This is the spot that you would imagine greatness at.

650
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: So here's a guy live in large. He was a

651
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: COVID kid, he who was home for many years, never

652
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 2: returned to school, became a pop star kind of unexpectedly.

653
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: He was kind of online doing his thing. It was

654
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: like he was those like.

655
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 3: For his videos just kept getting copyright struck. In his

656
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: horm we'll just make your own music, then, that's exactly right.

657
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: It was a little like justin Bieber esque in that

658
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: he was sort of like, surprise, now you're famous and

659
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: you're the real deal. And his mother encouraged him to

660
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 2: create his own music all of the things. It's like

661
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 2: the American it's like the American dream in terms of music.

662
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: And maybe he had a bit of an arrested development

663
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: situation going. He was thrown into the spotlight. I wasn't

664
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: super familiar with him, to be honest, prior to this

665
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: story hitting our desks.

666
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: So here he is.

667
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: He's a world or that I am familiar with. That

668
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: is a very very very big deal and not easy

669
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: to get or coordinate. And there's a lot of money,

670
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: a lot of jobs on the line there. You do

671
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 2: not get tossed off a tour or quit a tour easily.

672
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: You just don't know. There's the thousands of people in

673
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: the makings on this, not just working on it, but

674
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: rehearsing for it, and the accountants and the production.

675
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 4: It is big.

676
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: So for that to go away, I actually felt sorry

677
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 2: for him, And now I feel like his inner circle

678
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: they are expecting them to turn on each other. I agree,

679
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: and I'm pretty confident somebody will I did do.

680
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 3: The pressure is mounting.

681
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 6: The pressure is on well, someone to Jarrett Farentino, who

682
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 6: was on last night the Prosecutor. You know he mentioned

683
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 6: he called out the fact that the source has said

684
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 6: that multiple people they believe dismembered celest Fernandez, and that's.

685
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 2: Think about that night or day. I just imagine that

686
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: for a hot second, and we should all be super

687
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 2: enraged by this. Imagine multiple people that have big lives

688
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: ahead of them taking the time together in unison, hacking

689
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: up a fourteen year old now fifteen year old, beautiful

690
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: young body of Celeste revs Hernandez and then tossing her

691
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: body parts in the trunk or fronk air quotes of

692
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: a tesla, like that seemed like a group effort, Like

693
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 2: what was that experience for all of them? Think about

694
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: the sicko moments that that must have been. For a

695
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: group effort to dismember a body is literally next level.

696
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: And anybody who participated should really do the time.

697
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, when I'm close enough that or

698
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 5: wealthy enough that could convince me to be involved with

699
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 5: something that horrendous.

700
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: Or just be prepared to do the epic amount of

701
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: time and what comes with that, Like you do the crime,

702
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: you do the time in that case, and.

703
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 5: I'd notice it if he were dating someone that age

704
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 5: in ball, That's another one I would have a a

705
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 5: big issue with.

706
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: How about that? Now we have to assume that most

707
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 2: of the friends, we've heard reports that they all thought

708
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: that she was nineteen and attending university. They all thought

709
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: she wasn't fourteen years old. She wasn't a super minor,

710
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: so let's give them that. But if David the pop

711
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 2: star is in fact involved and was having a sexual

712
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: relationship of any kind with Celeste, that would also be illegal.

713
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 5: Right. Yeah.

714
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 6: Wow, That's so glad the world.

715
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: Tour is over because I was really concerned about it

716
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: for a hot second there, I really was. I was like,

717
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, the world tour has ended. I mean,

718
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 2: what if he didn't do it? Like we've now taken

719
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 2: all this money and success out of his pocket. He'll

720
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: never live again. If this is true, it will be devastating.

721
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 3: This is your Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy, move

722
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 3: in and I'm here with Stephanie Leijaker and Courtney. I'm

723
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: strong and we have Taha joining in and hopping in

724
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 3: quite often tonight, which I'm really excited about. Actually we're

725
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 3: talking about you know, listen, we're just taking some talkbacks.

726
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: If you want to weigh in, give us a call

727
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 3: at eighty eight thirty one crime. Do we want to

728
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 3: do another talk about or what do we do?

729
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 5: Let's do it talk, Let's do it.

730
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 9: Hay True crime tonight. This is Erica from up to State,

731
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 9: New York. A couple of shows ago, someone called in

732
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 9: or had a talk back about the sattings they were

733
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 9: picking up from you. And the one that I keep

734
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 9: trying to say is Stephanie's pacocta, but I keep accidentally

735
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 9: saying Pakasha.

736
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 3: I love you guys.

737
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: I don't even know where I get the cocta from.

738
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: I think it is you Destoyer, right, it.

739
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 5: Means exactly where you got it from because I worked

740
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 5: together with this.

741
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, we worked for the same person, Taha and I

742
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 2: one thousand and fifty years ago worked the exact same

743
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: person I was. In turn, he was a fancy producer

744
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: then even then, and yes, our boss would always be like,

745
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: this is for cocta. I remember thinking, what does that

746
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: even mean?

747
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: Does it mean?

748
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: It means like.

749
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: Disarray kind of like yeah.

750
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 4: My life is.

751
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking it up right now. I don't know

752
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: how I spell it, though, do I say it that often?

753
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: I don't know how to see you. I don't know

754
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: how to die.

755
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 5: And every person that like, whenever I'm around someone a

756
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 5: Jewish person, they always think like, where did you learn that?

757
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 5: And the other one, Amy, the same person I've talked about,

758
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 5: used to call me and I was like, what does

759
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 5: that mean? And so I found out that's like sort

760
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 5: of like a gossipy kind of like in your business

761
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 5: ye kind of person.

762
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 4: Wait, okay, so I have it.

763
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: I have the actually, like I just got the actual

764
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: definition for cocta.

765
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: So it's kind of like it's spelled f A.

766
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 2: C A seat he a f A c A c

767
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,479
Speaker 2: t a that by my spelling, it has helped this

768
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: at all, But regardless, it means something ridiculous, messed up

769
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: or broken.

770
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, okay, by the way, in California, we would say

771
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 10: instead of yani or is that what you would say

772
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 10: chi molsa?

773
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 3: Like your gossip.

774
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: Just sounds like a cocktail and just like I don't

775
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: even know if I'm saying it right, but yeah.

776
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 5: I've heard that.

777
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: Okay, was just that was just like not Jewish?

778
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 4: Is that true?

779
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 6: No?

780
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 7: Know?

781
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 6: Does like like busy body like in your.

782
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 2: Stuff, like chatty Kathy, what are you doing? A little?

783
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 4: He got there?

784
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 2: That's funny, I think of myself, But you are, You're

785
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 2: actually the opposite.

786
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: My dream is to get like a Margaret read it

787
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,479
Speaker 3: with you with a big bowl.

788
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 5: Just let's make that reality.

789
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: It's my favorite thing margarita's chips and salsa and just

790
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 3: gossip like in that scenario.

791
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, let's do it doing that all right now, anybody

792
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: listening is drinking a margarita with some chips in salsa,

793
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: gossiping and having a day that may have been a

794
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: bit facta get you are. You were so there in spirit.

795
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: I love it to Thursday.

796
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 5: I feel like we need another one, Adam, give us

797
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 5: another fun one.

798
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 9: I just want to say, taha, I'm right there with you.

799
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: In and Out is okay. I don't crave it.

800
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 8: I'll eat if everyone else is there, But I just

801
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 8: feel like there are way better burgers than and Out?

802
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 4: How dare you?

803
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 3: How dare you?

804
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 2: In my personally this stuff, I don't have a lot

805
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: of choices, So In and Out is like Celiac approved,

806
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: and they they're nice to me, so you know, I'll

807
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: take what I can get, even if it's a buttered brick,

808
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 2: I will eat it with happiness. So I might not

809
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: be the gauge, but I used to love a Big Mac,

810
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 2: and man did I love Yeah, So I'm not sure

811
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 2: that I'm the best taste.

812
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 3: I like Whoppers more than Big Max because they're the

813
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: flame grilled you know, but I mean they're in and

814
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 3: out though.

815
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: It's just so.

816
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 3: I just I love animal style in and out, and

817
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 3: I love their shakes.

818
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 4: I just like the shakeshare.

819
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 5: So I don't know.

820
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: There's the Politano yes, yeah, which is like the strawberry,

821
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: vanilla and chocolate all swirled together. Don't get me started.

822
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 5: I don't like mine is the one I live near,

823
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 5: is the fantasy one. You always see that the sum

824
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 5: oh yeah, after the Oscars, and there's always like a

825
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 5: twenty to thirty minute wait to get in. So first

826
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 5: of all, like I've done that thirty minute wait, and

827
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 5: you wait where You're like, this is it? I could

828
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 5: have gone two blocks down and had a Wendy's in

829
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 5: three seconds.

830
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: And Wendy's is nothing to Chili is awesome. I like

831
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: it when that cheese fry, how about the cheese on

832
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 2: the side and you dip your Wendy's French fry And

833
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: I can't do this because of the Celiac because everything

834
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: gets grilled and like putting the same I don't know.

835
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 2: The I don't know, don't get me start cross contaminat

836
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 2: but like the cross contamination, but the cheese on the

837
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 2: side and then you dip your Wendy's fries in the

838
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: cheese right now.

839
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 5: That I can't pretty much anything with cheese. Yeah, I'm

840
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 5: the same with me too. But I was great to

841
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 5: say that live on air, and a couple of people

842
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 5: called me later and said, you should not have said that.

843
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 5: People are going to be standing outside your front door

844
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 5: with pitchfork. So right, But because you in and out,

845
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 5: in and out, He's like, oh.

846
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: Oh, either way, so scandalous.

847
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: I can't believe you. You talked crap about in and out.

848
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: You're you know, like, no, please, it's fine. It's not

849
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 3: like we're, you know, disciples.

850
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of a disciple, but my limited Yeah,

851
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: but I've never had.

852
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 3: What waa burger? And I've heard what a burger is

853
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 3: really good? And every time I say like in and out,

854
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 3: somebody from Texas or you know, Oklahoma or something's like,

855
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 3: what a waa burgers so much better? I'm like, dude,

856
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 3: I've never had that. Okay, I don't know what to

857
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: tell you anyway. Coming up, the latest on former news

858
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 3: anchor accused of killing her mother and the new information

859
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: raising serious questions of about her mental state. Plus a

860
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: Washington Man allegedly inspired by murderer Taratus Deckermemraham, Don't forget

861
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 3: keep it right here a true Grime Tonight.

862
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight an iHeartRadio. We have

863
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: been talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lydek

864
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong, body move in. Of course we

865
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: have Taha, our amazing producer, and of course our amazing

866
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: Adam and Sam in the control room.

867
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 4: They are holding down the fort.

868
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: If you want to call in live, they are waiting

869
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: by the phone. So eight eight eight three one Crime.

870
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: Or you can always leave us a talkback or hit

871
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 2: us up on our social media. Feel free to dm

872
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: us or keep in mind we want to hear from you.

873
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: That is the name of the game, So no judgment zone. Courtney,

874
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 2: we have a lot of headlines to get to. What

875
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: do you think we do have a lot of headlines.

876
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: This one's a sad one. It's Angie Mack.

877
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 6: And if you guys are called Angie is a former

878
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 6: Saint Louis news anchor. She was arrested on Halloween this year,

879
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 6: and she was charged with first screen murder after allegedly

880
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 6: stabbing her eighty year old mother, Anita to death. So

881
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 6: there's a new released please Affid David, and it details

882
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 6: that Angiemocks mental states seems like it had been deteriorating

883
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 6: for really quite some time. It was years of mental

884
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 6: health struggles prior psychiatric treatment and even some outbursts that

885
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 6: were observed by family members.

886
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: So it's a very sad situation that has but it.

887
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 6: Also somewhat explains when we were trying to figure out,

888
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 6: you know, there's an eighty year old woman lying in bed,

889
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 6: what could cause and mental illness if your literal mind

890
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 6: is not in the state of correctness and reality?

891
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 2: Can we jump in on mental illness too? I mean again,

892
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: I feel like we're doing a very esoteric episode right now.

893
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 2: But another thing that I would say, after the many

894
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 2: years and working in true crime, mental illness is such

895
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: a big factor. I know we can do better and

896
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 2: it sounds like this case is an example of that. Yeah.

897
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 4: So this again, this tragedy Angie.

898
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 6: It reveals that Angie had told nine one one that

899
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 6: her mother had tried to kill her, which then prompted

900
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 6: her to stab her eight year old mother in self defense.

901
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 6: Officers found the mom, Anita, deceased, with the multiple stab

902
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 6: wounds several blood covered knives from the kitchen and a

903
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 6: cheese grater nearby, and this is all in the Affidavid

904
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 6: And during Angie's multiple multiple statements, they were conflicting. They

905
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 6: included claims that her mother was sharpening knives and chasing her,

906
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 6: and ultimately revealed that she believed her mother was the devil.

907
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 6: Angie was treated for lacerations to her hands and her

908
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 6: arms and then was invested get it by police, and

909
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 6: during that time she continued with delusional statements. So there's

910
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 6: a competency state hearing that's been ordered and it will

911
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 6: determine whether Angie is mentally fit to stand trial.

912
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 3: M I wonder, you know this happened around the same

913
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 3: time that other women in Michigan kind.

914
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 5: Of Oh, I wonder what's going on? True?

915
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point, because I mean, yeah, this

916
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: sounds like there's some mental health issues going on there.

917
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: Are we a little biased though, because she's a woman killer?

918
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 3: Are we?

919
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: Maybe?

920
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 10: Well?

921
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe I think the bias for me was a

922
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 5: little bit like she's a not that you should judge

923
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 5: a book by its cover, but she's this this very

924
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 5: attractive news anchor and seems so together when I went

925
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 5: back and looked at some of her past appearances on TV.

926
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 5: So not that that, you know, is a factor, but

927
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 5: I mean for me, that was what threw me the most.

928
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 5: I'm like, wow, she like, how could that happen? Yeah,

929
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 5: Like she's so sharp.

930
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 6: I mean, breaks can happen, and you know, I know

931
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 6: what you're talking about in the poise that Angie had

932
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 6: on air. Absolutely, However, in recent years, Angie had lived

933
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 6: with her mother and her stepfather, and this was after

934
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 6: losing her job. And she lost her job because of

935
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 6: something described as an explosive situation involving alcohol. We don't

936
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 6: have further details, Angie step five tracks.

937
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 2: A little bit more. Yes.

938
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 6: The stepfather also stated that Angie had a history of

939
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 6: mental health issues, including a diagnosis for psycho effective disorder,

940
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 6: and other families members again recounted angry outbursts and she

941
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 6: had a two week hospitalizations. Okay, yeah, so it seems

942
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 6: like something something was very wrong.

943
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and and it shows and the details are

944
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: sad and tragic, and.

945
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was doing this like a little bit of

946
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 4: a deep dive.

947
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: It's funny. Last night I had met some new some

948
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: new friends, and one of them had gone to high

949
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 2: school with the girls. Listen, new two friends of a

950
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: new friend. Of course, not you guys is making you're

951
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 2: not daughters already. You guys are my family, my girls.

952
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 2: I wish you with me twenty four hours a day,

953
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 2: literally seven days a week, and we would be having

954
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: like ham sandwiches and ham sandwiches.

955
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 4: Nobody wants that.

956
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: We want the most delicious people to put her in

957
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: jelly sandwiches and.

958
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 4: Corn beef and roast beef and rubens.

959
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 2: But so in this one of them was telling me

960
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: that she went to high school with a girl who

961
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: murdered her mother for really no apparent reason, maybe for

962
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 2: insurance money, which I was like, you have to come

963
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 2: on the show and discuss mattre side is very unusual.

964
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 2: It's very unusual for a woman to kill her own mother.

965
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: Happens rarely. I think the numbers are doing a deep dive.

966
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: It's their numbers are very, very low. So I guess

967
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: that's where my brain goes to mental illness. That is

968
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: not to discount mental illness and other murders and homicides

969
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 2: that involve men. Obviously, I would go so far as

970
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 2: to say mental illness and so many of the homicides

971
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: that we cover or murders that we cover is probably

972
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 2: pretty unchecked and relevant. So again, good that we're talking

973
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: about it.

974
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, good that we're talking about it. But another sad

975
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 5: level is how challenging it is to get the kind

976
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 5: of help that you Yeah, true, seems like it's more

977
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 5: and more. Please don't tell me that's true.

978
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 2: Well, Christine Christine said she will, she wants. She's desperate

979
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 2: to talk to you anytime. Who's Christine Christine who was

980
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 2: on the show.

981
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 4: The other day when we had the worst audio in

982
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 4: the PJS.

983
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: Yes with the fire arm, Yes, exactly, with the firelight,

984
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: by the way, it was, How great was she? She's

985
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 2: going to come back and like fill us in all

986
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: kinds of important holiday pre stuff.

987
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 4: But she is available to you anytime.

988
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: I love her, Okay, I really did enjoy her. I

989
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 3: just wish that her poor smoke alarm wasn't going on.

990
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 4: She was great.

991
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 6: It was an emergency, yes, right, So guess what we're

992
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 6: on True crime tonight. We are on BRA on iHeartRadio.

993
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 6: I'm Courtney, I'm here with body, I'm here with Stephanie,

994
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 6: and I have a bunch of marbles in my mouth

995
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 6: in this moment. We've been speaking about Angie Mock and

996
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 6: we want to hear from you about anything we've been

997
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 6: speaking about this evening.

998
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: So give us a call.

999
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 6: We're at eight eight eight through one crime or hit

1000
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 6: us up on the talk backs and body you had

1001
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 6: some headlines to share as well.

1002
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 3: Right so on Washington mother she made a domestic violence

1003
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 3: call which led police to a state wide manhunt after

1004
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 3: her ex allegedly assaulted her, kidnapped their two children, and

1005
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,720
Speaker 3: threatened to kill them like Travis Decker. I'm using quotes

1006
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,959
Speaker 3: Travis Decker. Do you guys remember the Travis Decker case.

1007
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 3: Of course, he killed his three beautiful young children, and

1008
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 3: then there was this like, you know, nationwide manhunt for him,

1009
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 3: and he was later found I think skeleton, you know,

1010
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 3: his skeleton was found, basically correct the end. So this

1011
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: incident began when a woman in Monroe, Washington, reported that

1012
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 3: her ex boyfriend assaulted her, stole her car, and fled

1013
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 3: while their young children were inside the home. The case

1014
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 3: escalated when she told police he had threatened to kill

1015
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,919
Speaker 3: the kids in a manner referencing Travis Decker again, who

1016
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 3: is the father that murdered his daughters earlier? This year,

1017
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: she reported this assault, car theft, and the disappearance of

1018
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 3: her seven year old and ten ten month year old

1019
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 3: children to Monroe Police. She told the officers or ex

1020
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 3: had allegedly threatened to kill her and the kids. The

1021
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 3: suspect allegedly attempted to run the mother over as she

1022
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 3: tried to turn home to check in on the children.

1023
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 3: Police issued a statewide be on the lookout at a

1024
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 3: bolo right alert and coordinated an ambler alert. Authorities have

1025
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: not released the suspect's name. The county deputy located the father,

1026
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 3: the vehicle, and both children alive, thank god. The suspect

1027
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 3: was arrested and booked on multiple charges, including two counts

1028
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 3: of first degree kidnapping, with the bail set two hundred

1029
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 3: thousand dollars.

1030
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: Wow.

1031
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this threat that referenced Travis Decker, the father

1032
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 3: from nearby Leavenworth, this is kind of in the same

1033
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 3: area of the country who again earlier kidnapped and killed

1034
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 3: his three daughters before dying himself. So sad, I mean,

1035
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 3: can you imagine, like you live in the area where

1036
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 3: all this happened, where Travis Decker happened, and now your

1037
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 3: ex has your kids and he's saying, I'm going to

1038
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 3: kill them like Travis Decker and then takes off with them.

1039
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 3: I will terror, literally frantic, like especially because they've all

1040
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 3: lived in this area. Obviously they're all familiar with Travis Decker.

1041
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 2: No, they were following it so closely, trying to find him. Right, Yeah,

1042
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 2: that's a version of abuse. Oh, one hundred percent like torture,

1043
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 2: right yeah.

1044
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 4: Exactly, like psychological terror.

1045
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, Blessings upon blessings is that they found him and

1046
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 3: the kids were unharmed. It's almost like he is doing

1047
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 3: some kind of power move on hers, Like.

1048
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: Can that be? Like, don't get me started. You know

1049
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 2: why they haven't released his name. Yeah, it just seems

1050
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: like that alone is a version of terror. You're threatening

1051
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: to harm and kill your kids like that should count

1052
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 2: for some sort of a some sort of a something,

1053
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 2: And for a mother or a father to hear that

1054
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 2: information is pretty unimaginable. And I don't know, I think

1055
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 2: that's also worthy of some sort of criminal justice.

1056
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 3: Well, he's being held at the county Corrections Bureau and

1057
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,959
Speaker 3: it's Sonomish County. I hope I saw that right. Please

1058
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 3: don't beat me up if I didn't. Washington, I love

1059
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 3: you on charges including felony harassment, which is the threats

1060
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 3: to kill, yeah, and second degree domestic violence.

1061
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 2: Yeah that sounds right.

1062
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, I feel like there has to be a

1063
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 3: better word because that doesn't seem like harassment. It seems

1064
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 3: like torture.

1065
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 5: Torture, Yeah it is.

1066
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for sure. You're threatening to take the lives

1067
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 2: or harm your own children. Yeah, that's like emotional warfare.

1068
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there you go.

1069
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: Psychological war Yeah, psychological warfare. I guess that's a common

1070
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have a better answer, jump

1071
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 2: in join the comedy of a D eight eight three

1072
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 2: one crime.

1073
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 5: Definitely.

1074
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 6: I'm going to guess the felony harassment likely raises what

1075
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 6: the child, what the sentence would be, so it might cover.

1076
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 3: Maybe that's a question we can ask Jared Jared.

1077
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll keep our list for him because I when

1078
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 5: he's there.

1079
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 2: It's such a tough one because people say all kinds

1080
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 2: of nutty things in a fight, right.

1081
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 4: Justified.

1082
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 2: Everybody feels justified in all kinds of moments.

1083
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 5: So that is a.

1084
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 2: Tough thing about the law and a tough thing about words.

1085
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 2: When is the word the word? When is it like

1086
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 2: this is a threat and this is noise. And that's

1087
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 2: a really hard line for law enforcement to determine. By

1088
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 2: the way, that's a really hard line for a human

1089
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 2: being to understand.

1090
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 5: A line.

1091
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 4: How do you know when someone's.

1092
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: Like, I'm just like telling you I'm going to kill

1093
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: you and they actually mean they're going to kill you.

1094
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 4: That's like people say.

1095
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 2: Things in the moments that it seems silly, right, but

1096
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: something like that the Travis Decker of it all, who.

1097
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 3: I was gonna say that that's a line.

1098
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 2: It is so yeah to me that it's black and white.

1099
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 4: But it's a reminder.

1100
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 2: Just I'm only saying that. I'm only making the distinction

1101
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 2: for any mother or father or anyone who's not sure,

1102
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 2: is like that crossing the line? Did they mean it?

1103
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 2: Take it as though they mean it. And then I

1104
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 2: don't think those words in any circumstance, any threats of

1105
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: any kind that might just feel like, oh, background, noise,

1106
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: It didn't really mean it. You should take it as.

1107
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 3: Though they do, because especially considering the context. I mean,

1108
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 3: it's one thing to have a fight with your partner,

1109
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 3: right and I'm going to kill you, you know.

1110
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 4: But you shouldn't for expression that you should never say.

1111
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 3: That and it said I kill you and the kids

1112
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 3: like Travis Decker, that's like, what but if someone.

1113
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: Says they're going to kill you, trust them that's true,

1114
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 2: that's true. And I think that gets that's like again

1115
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 2: that it's such a fine lote, like the scope is

1116
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: so big, but we can't throw those words around so loosely.

1117
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 3: So but what if like okay, but there's different kinds

1118
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 3: of things like you leave the milk out and your

1119
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 3: husband or wife is like, I'm going to Oh, I'm

1120
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 3: going to kill you if you do this again. I mean,

1121
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 3: you know, I mean I think that's you know nothing,

1122
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 3: it's but if you're if you're fighting and you know

1123
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 3: it has potential to be physical and they're saying things

1124
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 3: like I'm going to kill you, I think that is

1125
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 3: a warning sign in a red flag that you probably

1126
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 3: should you know of advocate.

1127
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 5: Then, like when you're explaining that story to a police officer,

1128
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 5: how do how do they know which context it wasn't

1129
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 5: like was it the I'm going to kill you for

1130
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 5: the milk or I'm going to kill you, Like they

1131
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 5: don't know.

1132
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 2: That they should kill you over the milk. I don't

1133
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 2: know that we should talk that way. I know if

1134
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 2: someone says, like, you know, I think you should be

1135
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 2: kinder about the milk and choose different words.

1136
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 5: Very true, very good.

1137
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 4: This case doesn't seem very fuzzy.

1138
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 6: The suspect allegedly tried to run her over, that's all,

1139
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 6: you know. He then kidnapped her children. He's been charged.

1140
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 6: So this is nothing's fuzzy in my universe with this.

1141
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 6: In any case, what I say about the milk in

1142
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 6: my house, that does get fuzzy.

1143
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 4: So I hear what you say. What's a better word?

1144
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: Like I'm being I sound dramatic. I don't mean to be.

1145
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 2: I don't mean to be. What's a better word? All Like,

1146
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 2: what's the word? But I get it. It's annoying when

1147
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 2: the milk.

1148
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 4: Is out, that's for sure. Yeah, all right, well listen,

1149
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 4: keep it here.

1150
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 6: We've got the rampart scandal that rocked LAPD and much

1151
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 6: more True crime Tonight.

1152
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and I Heart Radio.

1153
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. Happy Thursday, everybody,

1154
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 2: and listen if you want to jump in and join

1155
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: the conversation.

1156
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 4: Eight eight eight three one Crime.

1157
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my sweet booze, my cheekas,

1158
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 2: my mates, my favorite partners in crime, solving, crime, justice,

1159
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 2: you name it, and they are here with us exactly.

1160
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 2: Courtney and Body are in the house and Sam and

1161
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: Adam are holding down the fort ready to hear from you.

1162
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 4: So so much to discuss.

1163
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 2: Listen, the whole idea for tonight was talking about justice

1164
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 2: and injustice. It's sort of the left hand right hand.

1165
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 2: I'm making the I'm doing the thing when the scales

1166
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 2: of skills comes the left to the right right so light.

1167
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 2: I don't know I'm making the I'm making that movement

1168
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 2: right now. And honestly, it's all a conversation. So please

1169
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: share with us what your thoughts are. They do not

1170
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 2: need to be any of ours. That's how we grow.

1171
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 2: So where should we start? First, Courtney, I know, body

1172
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 2: actually wants to jump in first, No, Courtney, want to

1173
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 2: jump on. This was actually the Body just put her

1174
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 2: finger on her nose and.

1175
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 6: Just said, not it, not it, not it, okay.

1176
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 4: Injustice, this is more than a case.

1177
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 6: This is a scenario of injustice that is gigantic.

1178
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 2: So I just wanted to talk about this.

1179
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 6: So the Rampart scandal, Rampart is a place in Los

1180
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 6: Angeles and Rampart scandal. It was a police corruption scandal

1181
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 6: that unfolded during the late nineties and early two thousands.

1182
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 2: I brought this up a couple of days ago.

1183
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 6: And it involved a criminal involved widespread criminal activity within

1184
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 6: the crash unit, which should for community resources against street hoodlums.

1185
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 6: So it was the anti gang unit in.

1186
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 2: The Rampart Division.

1187
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 6: More than seventy police officers were initially implicated. And this

1188
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 6: was in various forms of misconduct. That was police brutality.

1189
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 6: There was planting false evidence, there was drug dealing, stealing,

1190
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 6: there was a bank robbery, there.

1191
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 2: Was perjury, there was cover ups.

1192
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, so this is the stuff actually literally of movies.

1193
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 6: It's the stuff of there's a Denzel Washington movie. Oh yes, yes,

1194
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 6: movie will come up with then. And also the Shield

1195
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 6: with Michael Chicklis, which was I love that. I love this, Yes,

1196
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 6: so briefly March eighteenth, ninety seven. So that's where we are,

1197
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 6: and keep in mind, gang wars are everywhere. Sure, an

1198
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 6: off duty officer named Kevin Gaines was shot and killed

1199
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 6: by an undercover officer, Frank Laga, and this was during

1200
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 6: a road rage incident. So the undercover officer Ligo was

1201
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 6: cleared of wrongdoing after an investigation found that he acted

1202
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 6: in self defense. All right, So the Gaines family, the

1203
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 6: man who was killed, filed wrongful death lawsuit. The city

1204
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 6: settled for a quarter of a million dollars. So later

1205
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 6: in twenty nineteen ninety seven, another officer, David mack orchestrated

1206
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 6: a seven hundred and twenty two thousand dollars Bank of

1207
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 6: America robbery and he was sentenced over fourteen years in

1208
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 6: federal federal prison. So so far we have a murder

1209
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 6: by vehicle and bank robbery. February of the next year,

1210
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 6: another officer he beat a handcuffed gang member named Ismail

1211
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 6: Jimenez at the rampart station. He was ultimately fired the

1212
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 6: officer and him Andez received another quarter of a million

1213
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 6: dollar civil settlement. So this is all really coming to

1214
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 6: a head. And then what really broke it open was

1215
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 6: in May of that year, the following the discovery of

1216
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 6: missing cocaine from the evidence room, Officer Perez, who was

1217
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 6: a nine year veteran, was arrested for stealing six pounds

1218
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 6: of cocaine.

1219
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 2: A lot of that is that a lot of cocaine

1220
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 2: that's a lot of cocaines six pounds.

1221
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 5: I think it's you know, couns. This is what will

1222
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 5: work with a watermelon that weighs six pounds or like anything.

1223
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1224
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 3: A baby, it's a baby, Courtney. You you're talking about

1225
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 3: this crash team? Yes, And in the Shield it was

1226
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 3: called Strike Unit, remember, yes, So this really was kind

1227
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 3: of like a parallel of the Rampart.

1228
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,479
Speaker 6: Absolutely the work entitled yes exactly right now.

1229
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 4: Because they were based on.

1230
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 3: Somebody like an officer in the Shield?

1231
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 2: How about you guys have like West Wing and the

1232
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 2: Shield in common.

1233
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 4: It's crazy making and wires.

1234
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 5: Definitely you love the Shield because I love you?

1235
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 4: And then which do I start first?

1236
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 2: I always think of Michael. Isn't he the Equalizer? No?

1237
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 3: No, Michel Michael was he was the rock guy? Oh yeah,

1238
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 3: wasn't he?

1239
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1240
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 3: But one of the other guys is the dude from

1241
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 3: White Lotus, the thing, Walter Walter Gagon or what's his name?

1242
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 5: Who the guy with the longer hair?

1243
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 6: Play it's Michael Dogs, Michaels, sick List you Equalizer, Country Waltons.

1244
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 2: Okay, Sam, it's your way to save the day and

1245
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 2: it was Michael chicklist In.

1246
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 4: Wasn't he the Equalizer?

1247
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 3: He was in The Fabulous No, the TV.

1248
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 4: Show The Equalizer, I don't know the TV show.

1249
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, the TV show, I'm not sure, but but Denzel

1250
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 5: was in Training Day. That was the movie we were

1251
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 5: thinking about Payaball.

1252
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 4: We are, okay, so let's get back on.

1253
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 6: Okay, so we're going back to Rampart.

1254
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 3: We're going to say the Strike Team.

1255
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 4: So the Strike Team is what though? The strike tea

1256
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 4: lots of cocaine. Okay, So the.

1257
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,799
Speaker 3: Story that Courtney is telling, they're all on this crash

1258
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 3: team as part of the lap D and there's drugs

1259
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 3: in the shield. They're called the Strike Team. So it's

1260
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 3: very parallel.

1261
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 6: Yes, And the goal of this unit, they were Special Unit,

1262
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 6: and the whole goal was to arrest gang members by

1263
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 6: any means necessary. And that went just wildly off the rails.

1264
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 6: They were literally acted completely outside the law doing what

1265
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 6: was that, you know, murdering, stealing banks?

1266
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 5: Terrible.

1267
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, And they had so much power, right, I mean right,

1268
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 3: they were given so much authority to clean up the

1269
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 3: streets that they just kind of ran with it.

1270
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 6: Exactly right, Body and Cloud, I mean they were right.

1271
01:08:59,120 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 4: The crash off.

1272
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 6: They would celebrate shootings, they would get plaques, they would

1273
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 6: they would carry spare guns around on the regular in

1274
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 6: order to plant them on suspects.

1275
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, wow.

1276
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 6: So they were constantly planting yes, wow, absolutely, And they

1277
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 6: were constantly stealing from the gang members that they were

1278
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 6: supposed to be arresting, stealing and dealing as well as

1279
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,919
Speaker 6: stealing and dealing with prostitutes.

1280
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 3: Like guns, drugs, prostitutes. Yeah.

1281
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 2: Everything.

1282
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were. They were absolute criminals, one hundred percent.

1283
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 5: Wowow. So you wonder why there's this fear within that

1284
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 5: community of the police and you see this kind of

1285
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 5: you know, this kind of craziness happening, and it makes

1286
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 5: you think, I don't trust any of you. So, but

1287
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 5: you keep going. I'm sorry.

1288
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, they did unconscionable things. Ultimately, the scandal resulted in

1289
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 6: over one hundred and forty civil lawsuits against the City

1290
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 6: of Los Angeles. These settlements estimated one hundred and twenty

1291
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 6: five million. This crash team and one hundred and six

1292
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 6: criminal convictions were overturned due to falsified evidence or perjury.

1293
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:10,919
Speaker 9: Wow.

1294
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 2: Let that sinka.

1295
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 6: In over a hundred wow, people were innocently perjured.

1296
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 4: Are you kidding.

1297
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 3: Yes, And at the same time, there was like a

1298
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 3: ten year backlog of rape kits that were uh thousands,

1299
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 3: thousands of untested rape kits at in evidence at the LAPD.

1300
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 3: They just weren't testing. So all this is happening in

1301
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 3: LA at the same time. Anyway, it's unrelated to your story,

1302
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 3: core ass. It reminded me of all the rape kits.

1303
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 2: Can we get back to the rape kits being untested

1304
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 2: for that long of a time?

1305
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1306
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 2: Too, Like that's also something to.

1307
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:50,799
Speaker 3: Stockbacklog dot com.

1308
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 2: Is that the thing?

1309
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 3: Is that backlog still happening? Sorry, no, it hasn't say

1310
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 3: but this was at night the night. Yeah, this is

1311
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 3: a long time ago. This is like, wow, the late nineties.

1312
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, the whole all of Los Angeles or a

1313
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 6: lot of Los Angeles policing was terrible, and then ultimately

1314
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 6: it did cause an overhaul completely.

1315
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 2: And there were probably some great cops even back then.

1316
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 2: But now you're getting overshadowed by these crappy stories of

1317
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 2: injustice and how could you not be infuriated if you're

1318
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 2: hearing this stuff.

1319
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 5: Terrible the fear of.

1320
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: You know exactly, oh yeah, exactly. We just even in

1321
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 2: the military, I mean again exactly, Yes.

1322
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean they were treated I mean again, anyone

1323
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 6: who's seen the Shield you don't have to have but

1324
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 6: in this shield, they were just treated as kind of

1325
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 6: rock stars and they simply did whatever they wanted to

1326
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 6: do and steal, you know, and stole and shot.

1327
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 3: Like dealt guns and I mean yeah.

1328
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 6: Absolutely they were the worst gang members there were. So

1329
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,959
Speaker 6: there's also a notorious big connection.

1330
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 2: We can skip over that and do it another time. No,

1331
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 2: the notorious big thing we should also get back to

1332
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:18,719
Speaker 2: in a very meaningful way because again that you have murder, yeah,

1333
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 2: because he's coming up for trial. You know, there's so

1334
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 2: many things were happening across that intersection, and that does

1335
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 2: kind of include Diddy, Like, did you should discuss that

1336
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 2: in a bigger way? Why do we do that?

1337
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1338
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:32,600
Speaker 2: Okay, it's a whole day. Sorry Courtney, I keep de

1339
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 2: railing you. I apologize.

1340
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 6: No, this is my seat though, a lot of a

1341
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 6: lot of tentacles to this. So that's anyway, the injustice

1342
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,560
Speaker 6: you can see, it's one hundred and forty lawsuits, it's people.

1343
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 2: Killed, one hundred and forty lawsuits.

1344
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, and one hundred and twenty five million dollars paid out. Luckily,

1345
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 6: reforms have been put in and you know things have

1346
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 6: changed for the better. This is true crime tonight. We

1347
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 6: hope you're life is changing for the better. We've been

1348
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 6: talking about the rampart scandal. We'd love to hear your thoughts.

1349
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 6: Eight at eight to three to one Crime and now

1350
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 6: body Yeah, Central Park five.

1351
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,799
Speaker 3: This is another story that happened around well a few

1352
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 3: years prior to the rampart but this happened in nineteen

1353
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 3: eighty nine. I'm going to give a quick synopsis of

1354
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 3: the story and then I'll get into the details. So

1355
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 3: April nineteenth, nineteen eighty nine, a twenty six year old

1356
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 3: white woman, Tricia Melli Mayley Sorry, was brutally attacked while

1357
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 3: jogging in Central Park. Five teens were arrested and coerced

1358
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 3: by policed into confessing to the attack, despite DNA evidence

1359
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:45,680
Speaker 3: excluding them. Teens were convicted and sentenced to five to

1360
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 3: ten years or sorry five to fifteen years, spending their

1361
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 3: formative years in prison under wrongful convictions. In two thousand

1362
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 3: and two, serial rapist Mattias Reyis confessed to the crime.

1363
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 3: DNA confirmed sole involvement and the convictions were vacated eventually

1364
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:07,799
Speaker 3: a lot I can't speak, eventually, leading to a forty

1365
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 3: one million dollars settlement. So here's what happened again. It

1366
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 3: was nineteen eighty nine in the springtime. You know, people

1367
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,679
Speaker 3: are out there, you know, at the park. Several groups

1368
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 3: of teenagers entered the northern end of the Central Park

1369
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 3: in Manhattan, where a series of assaults took place. There

1370
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 3: were some harassment incidents and attempted robberies that occurred between

1371
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 3: nine and ten pm. Okay, around the same time, twenty

1372
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 3: eight year old jogger Tricia Mayley was attacked, beaten, raped,

1373
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 3: and left unconscious in a remote wooded area of the park.

1374
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 3: She was discovered around one thirty am in critical condition.

1375
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 3: And at this time, crime in New York was at

1376
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 3: its peak. You know, it was a lot late nineteen

1377
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,640
Speaker 3: eighties and early nineties, leading to like a lot of

1378
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 3: additional pressure on police to find who was responsible. This

1379
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 3: was a record time in the city's history. The just

1380
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 3: the prior year in nineteen eighty eight, there were there

1381
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 3: were eighteen hundred and ninety six homicides, which was a record.

1382
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 5: Wow.

1383
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 3: So they're coming up this really big crime spree. This

1384
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 3: attack had just happened. There was a lot of pressure

1385
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 3: to get this solved. So police responding to reports of

1386
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,560
Speaker 3: the other group, right that was like doing some harassing

1387
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 3: and whatnot. Included Raymond Santana who was fourteen, Keith Richardson

1388
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 3: who was fourteen, and there were some other teens too,

1389
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:37,799
Speaker 3: Antron McKay fifteen, Yusef Salam he was fifteen, and Corey

1390
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 3: Wise who was sixteen. They were brought in for questioning. Right,

1391
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 3: they were babies. They were babies, but they were up

1392
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 3: to you know, they were doing they.

1393
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 4: Were like up trouble yep.

1394
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:55,679
Speaker 3: So after a very long interrogation, detectives obtained statements from

1395
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 3: five of those teenagers describing involvements in the attack on

1396
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 3: the jogger. The teens later arecann't it's saying that their

1397
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 3: confessions were made under duress, right, And there was this

1398
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 3: big ad taken out by Donald Trump. And I'm sure

1399
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 3: you guys remember this ad, Yes, I think you know,

1400
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 3: the Central Park ad saying that you know, bring back

1401
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 3: the death penalty and bring back our police. And it

1402
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 3: was directed at the Central Park five and they were convicted.

1403
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 3: DNA testing concluded at the time that they found cemen

1404
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,719
Speaker 3: but they didn't match any of the five of the teens,

1405
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,600
Speaker 3: but prosecutors proceeded. Again, they were under enormous stress. This

1406
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 3: is not excusing them, by the way.

1407
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 2: No, but it also does show the witch hunt of

1408
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 2: it because there is a ton of pressure on prosecutors

1409
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 2: to convict because they want the cities to be safe.

1410
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's a big policy. It's politics, right, right, it's

1411
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. So the sentences ranged from five to

1412
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 3: fifteen years, with four serving time in juvenile facilities and

1413
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 3: Corey Wise, who was the oldest, serving most of his

1414
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 3: sentence in an adult prison. It's I mean, and there's

1415
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 3: a really good documentary on Netflix about this, and it's

1416
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 3: called I believe it's called The Central Park five. Yeah,

1417
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:07,559
Speaker 3: and it's it's excellent. It's very well. Please check it out.

1418
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 6: Well, listen, stick around. We have a ton more to

1419
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 6: dig into. We have a bunch of talkbacks to get

1420
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 6: to and keep it here. True Crime Tonight.

1421
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been

1422
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with

1423
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 2: Courtney and Body and Man were already in the we

1424
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 2: are in the last segment.

1425
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 4: How does that happen.

1426
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 2: By the way, if you've missed any of the show,

1427
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 2: you can always catch it right after as a podcast.

1428
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 2: Please do. And even if you're listening as a podcast,

1429
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,520
Speaker 2: you can always leave a talkback.

1430
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 4: Just call either eight at eight.

1431
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 2: Three one crime and you can basically leave a voicemail

1432
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 2: and we'll play it on the show, or you can

1433
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 2: leave a talkback by downloading the iHeartRadio app. It's totally free.

1434
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:07,480
Speaker 2: Top right hand corner. There's a little microphone. Push that microphone,

1435
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 2: leave us a message and then we will play it

1436
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 2: on the show, which we love. So buddy, you've had

1437
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 2: us knee deep in such a such an important case,

1438
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 2: so thank you for shedding light.

1439
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 3: If you're just joining us, I'm just going to summarize

1440
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:24,280
Speaker 3: it really quickly and then final thoughts. So April nineteenth,

1441
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty nine, twenty six year old white woman Tricia

1442
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 3: Mayley was brutally attacked while jogging in Central Park. Five

1443
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 3: teens were arrested and coerced by police into confessing to

1444
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 3: the attack, despite DNA evidence excluding them. They were all

1445
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 3: convicted and sentenced to five to fifteen years in prison,

1446
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 3: depending on what happened and spending their formative years in

1447
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 3: prison under wrongful convictions. In two thousand and two, serial

1448
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 3: rapist Mattias Reus confessed. DNA confirmed his sole involvement in

1449
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 3: the convictions were vacated. Okay, so I just to kind

1450
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 3: of talk about, you know, the aftermath just very quickly.

1451
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 3: In two thousand and two, like I said, the serial

1452
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:11,799
Speaker 3: rapists confessed. In two thousand and one, Mattias Reus met

1453
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 3: Corey Wise when they were held at the Auburn Correction

1454
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 3: Facility in upstate New York. He reportedly said that he

1455
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 3: confessed because it was the right thing to do. So

1456
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 3: the real rapist is in prison, right and he meets

1457
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 3: the guy that you know is serving what his and

1458
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 3: I think that was yeah, And I think that was

1459
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 3: kind of like his watershed moment where he's like, I

1460
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 3: got to do the right thing and tell him it

1461
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 3: was me. Yeah, So that's kind of wild. A reinvestigation

1462
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 3: by the Manhattan District Attorney concluded that Mattias Reys acted

1463
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 3: alone and that the prior convictions were totally unsupported by

1464
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 3: their verified evidence, and all convictions were vacated. The men

1465
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 3: now they're known as the exonerated five. You might have

1466
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 3: seen them, you know in news clippings and whatnot. They

1467
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:01,240
Speaker 3: filed a civil la all suit against the state or

1468
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 3: the city, I'm sorry, the City of New York for

1469
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 3: malicious prosecution, racial discrimination, and emotional distress. City officials fought

1470
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 3: the case, obviously, for more than a decade. This went

1471
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 3: on before finally settling for forty one million dollars. And

1472
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 3: this is the best, this is the best news. One

1473
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 3: of the guys, one of the kids who went to

1474
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 3: prison for this, Yusuf Salem, is currently serving as a

1475
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 3: member of the New York City Council. He represents the

1476
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 3: city's ninth council district since twenty twenty four.

1477
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: Well is.

1478
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 2: Deeply wonderful.

1479
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good it's I mean, listen, nothing's going

1480
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:43,479
Speaker 3: to get those years back. No, but he look at him,

1481
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:46,080
Speaker 3: he's a city councilman. That's pretty for New York City.

1482
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 3: And that's a kind of a deal, right.

1483
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very.

1484
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 5: Big that's phenomenal chills as you were going on that

1485
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 5: like change that his life has gone through. But yeah,

1486
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 5: that I should have looked this up. Forty one million

1487
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:05,280
Speaker 5: is divided amongst each of them, I believe, so so yeah,

1488
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 5: so I don't know how much would make up for

1489
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 5: that much of your life that you've lost, which also

1490
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 5: one of my biggest fears. It's like to be wrongfully convicted.

1491
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:14,719
Speaker 3: But could you imagine?

1492
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 5: Oh that's all. Yeah, sometimes I keep me up at

1493
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 5: night thinking like anyway, but this one turned out.

1494
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,679
Speaker 2: We would never let that happen. Yeah, it would be

1495
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 2: over my dead Boddy. But by the way, if you

1496
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:34,639
Speaker 2: got Shawshank Redemption the Fugitive, Like, there are so many

1497
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:38,559
Speaker 2: movies that are embedded in our hearts that, of course,

1498
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 2: how could you not be afraid? Everybody is? I am too.

1499
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can imagine that's everyone's.

1500
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 3: But you know what kind of scares me? Can I

1501
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 3: can we go off for you a little bit?

1502
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:48,639
Speaker 5: Please?

1503
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 3: And getting convicted of a crime? AI so like I okay,

1504
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 3: So I was messing around during Halloween with AI creating

1505
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 3: like cute Halloween movies and stuff like that, and it

1506
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 3: really looked like me. I was like, that looks like me.

1507
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 3: That looks like me walking around And they can make

1508
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 3: AI almost do anything. Like who's to say somebody doesn't

1509
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 3: make an AI video of like Stephanie robbing a bank

1510
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 3: or something.

1511
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,680
Speaker 2: No, they will. That is a fact. I mean, like,

1512
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 2: let's be real, I don't want to put it out there,

1513
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 2: but in reality, there is so much found footage. We're

1514
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,760
Speaker 2: seeing body cam footage, and I don't want to underestimate

1515
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 2: the importance of it because it's such a big piece

1516
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 2: of the puzzle of the cases that we follow daily.

1517
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 2: But fast forward to a different time when AI is

1518
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 2: so readily available that yet you can have ring camera

1519
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 2: footage or surveillance footage or just streamed footage that would

1520
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 2: tie somebody to a crime, And how do you know

1521
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,920
Speaker 2: that that's not AI generated.

1522
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:52,719
Speaker 3: And they only need like.

1523
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 5: You can do it.

1524
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 2: Definitely, Yeah, I would look at me, I'm here eating

1525
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 2: a cheeseburger at in and Out, you know, like you

1526
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,560
Speaker 2: could do the exact same thing, right, true opposite lands.

1527
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:10,800
Speaker 5: I'm hopeful that they have some sort of system that

1528
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 5: they can look at that too.

1529
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 3: There has to be metadata, well, let's talk about metadata, Like, honestly,

1530
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 3: there has to be metadata that body only you would

1531
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 3: know that will at some point get us to a

1532
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:28,559
Speaker 3: place that we can better understand what is real and

1533
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,760
Speaker 3: what is not and things that are time stamped or

1534
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 3: you say metadata to us all the time, and I

1535
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 3: totally get it.

1536
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 2: Because I've learned from you, but I still kind of

1537
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:39,599
Speaker 2: don't one hundred percent get it.

1538
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,719
Speaker 3: Metadata, I think. Okay, let really simple terms. Think about

1539
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 3: a book. You get a book, they were just books,

1540
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,719
Speaker 3: and you open the book and there's a table of contents, right, Yes,

1541
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 3: that's metadata. It's data about data, Okay, So it tells

1542
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 3: you this chapter is on page twelve, and you know

1543
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 3: this this chapter about that, so you know you go

1544
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 3: to page twelve. That's metadata.

1545
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 2: So it's good. So I post a photo, though, I

1546
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 2: post a photo, which I barely do anymore because you've

1547
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 2: all freaked me out so much. So I and by

1548
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 2: the way, I used to post a photo every second

1549
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 2: of every minute. So I post a photo and somebody

1550
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 2: clicks on it, there's info unbeknownst to me or any

1551
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 2: of us for that matter, that.

1552
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,639
Speaker 4: There's metadata attached to that, which is.

1553
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 2: Really important when solving a crime. On a lighter front,

1554
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 2: kind of annoying if you're a regular person, you don't

1555
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 2: want your whereabouts, time of day, and anything and everything revealed.

1556
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I have one.

1557
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,600
Speaker 6: There's literally one suspicious person in my life, and it

1558
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 6: would text me a picture. I would save it because

1559
01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 6: very often that body's nodding her head. Very often I'd

1560
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 6: be like, this wasn't taken now, or when you said

1561
01:24:58,800 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 6: it was.

1562
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:00,760
Speaker 5: Stop, it would come up.

1563
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 4: What have you called them out on this? No, I keep.

1564
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 2: Courtney's building a case I would have that would be

1565
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 2: yelling at him. I would be screaming that within ten seconds.

1566
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 2: I couldn't keep that to myself. But by the way,

1567
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 2: I've had girlfriends. One particular is coming to mind who

1568
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:25,639
Speaker 2: her boyfriend at the time was like, oh, yeah, it's

1569
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:27,880
Speaker 2: so nice, I'm here with my kids, and then she

1570
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 2: did the metadata and it was like, here with my

1571
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 2: kids two months ago.

1572
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 6: You know what I mean.

1573
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 4: It wasn't exactly. It wasn't exactly at that moment, right.

1574
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 3: So what you guys were talking about is the embedded

1575
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 3: text and what not on pictures you take with your phone,

1576
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 3: and that's obviously that's metadata, but that's specifically exit data.

1577
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:51,680
Speaker 3: But ext of data is part of metadata. And by

1578
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 3: the way, we're going to be going over this on Sunday,

1579
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,600
Speaker 3: I'm going to be doing a whole breakdown of metadata

1580
01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:00,160
Speaker 3: and whatnot for our crime lab. But because it's to

1581
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:01,680
Speaker 3: be me, I'm going to be doing crime Live.

1582
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,840
Speaker 2: Policy need to sound effects.

1583
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:06,640
Speaker 5: Right ready for this.

1584
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:10,639
Speaker 3: So what they're talking about is you know, like, okay,

1585
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 3: so you have your iPhone right and you know what

1586
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 3: you're gallery and you're scrolling and you know if you

1587
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 3: when you're scrolling, it has like the month you took it. Well,

1588
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 3: that's it's organized because it's using the metadata on those

1589
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 3: pictures that you've taken to organize your gallery. That's metadata.

1590
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 3: And so what Courtney's and Stephanie you are talking about

1591
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:31,120
Speaker 3: is they get these text messages and it's a picture.

1592
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 3: You can save it and then like long press hold it,

1593
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 3: go to info and see that metadata. Okay, and you.

1594
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 4: Can see not good.

1595
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 5: You know what.

1596
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 3: It's important too, especially if you get text from your

1597
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 3: loved ones and stuff like you're a significant other and

1598
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 3: they're like, I'm just lounging. It's like a picture. View

1599
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 3: the live picture. Definitely view the live picture because oftentimes

1600
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 3: you'll catch things that you are we're not supposed to

1601
01:26:58,479 --> 01:26:58,920
Speaker 3: be shown.

1602
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 2: So those live and that's how like Facebook and Instagram

1603
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 2: obviously like do like a little like album or they're

1604
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 2: like this is through the years, like how do they

1605
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:10,959
Speaker 2: know what they use exactly?

1606
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:13,599
Speaker 3: Or your trip to Cancun, you know what I mean,

1607
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 3: like those kinds of things, but it is important to know,

1608
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 3: like when you upload photos to Facebook or you know,

1609
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 3: Instagram or you know, whatever social media platform you're on,

1610
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:26,920
Speaker 3: it does strip that made it metadata, so that like

1611
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 3: I can't go to Courtney's Instagram and like save her photos.

1612
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 3: I'm not going to get her metadata. It's gone. But

1613
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:37,639
Speaker 3: it does use it when you upload, so it let's say,

1614
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 3: let's say Courtney, you're at Caesar's Palace in Las.

1615
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,759
Speaker 4: Vegas and you take a much joys Yeah.

1616
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, you know you're high rolling, you know, you're

1617
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 3: doing your thing, and you take a picture, you upload

1618
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,639
Speaker 3: it and it tags you know, Caesar's Palace, Las Vegas,

1619
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:53,720
Speaker 3: and it knows that because of the location data that's

1620
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 3: embedded in those photographs. But it doesn't it doesn't save

1621
01:27:58,000 --> 01:27:59,800
Speaker 3: that to the photo when it gets uploaded, but it

1622
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:02,320
Speaker 3: a tag that your you know your location when you

1623
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 3: uppose to be careful of those things.

1624
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 5: I loved anyway, know, I first learned about that from

1625
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:09,160
Speaker 5: Donuf with Cats when there was a photo that I

1626
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 5: had never heard about that until I saw that, Oh wow,

1627
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:15,639
Speaker 5: they can tell where that apartment building is. So yeah, anyway,

1628
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,080
Speaker 5: but that was that. That's that's what I'm looking forward

1629
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:21,679
Speaker 5: to you, I know, but that sadly I learned about

1630
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:24,680
Speaker 5: it that first time I watched that episode. But I

1631
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 5: think that's going to be a really interesting thing to

1632
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:26,640
Speaker 5: talk about it.

1633
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're going to talk about metadata and oh

1634
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 3: in the cases that it solved, like BTK and Joey

1635
01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 3: Arius remember Jody Arius? Yeah in that case. Yeah, we're

1636
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 3: in in whatnot and how metadata kind of gave us

1637
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 3: the timeline of you know, the tragic death of Travis Alexander.

1638
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 3: So we're gonna we're going to go over all of

1639
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 3: that and why metadata is important, why you should know

1640
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 3: about it, how to look for it, where to find it,

1641
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:53,599
Speaker 3: because even in documents you type, like you know, your

1642
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 3: word documents at work, your Excel documents, all that has metadata,

1643
01:28:57,240 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 3: your pds, everything, it all helps.

1644
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:02,519
Speaker 2: I am so for this because I please show me.

1645
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:04,600
Speaker 5: Also, how is there a way to remove any of

1646
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:06,160
Speaker 5: that save that for the show? If there is? But

1647
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 5: I would love to teach people maybe if you don't

1648
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 5: want people to know, I'm currently not where I'm saying.

1649
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:12,839
Speaker 5: I am like, if you want.

1650
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 3: To, okay, I can cover that.

1651
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 2: What do you guys think about people wanting to share

1652
01:29:17,120 --> 01:29:20,120
Speaker 2: locations that are not parents and.

1653
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 3: Children and like your friends and stuff.

1654
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,880
Speaker 4: Listen, okay, not your.

1655
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:29,640
Speaker 2: Husbands, not your husband or your wife, or your significant

1656
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 2: other whenever your you know, sex preference is, or your kids.

1657
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:38,759
Speaker 2: So taking that aside. Okay, okay, maybe a casual somebody

1658
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 2: you're casually dating or casual people.

1659
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:45,639
Speaker 5: Yes, I mean location.

1660
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:51,520
Speaker 6: I heard pass on all of the aside from the

1661
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 6: custodian and child relationship. That's I stop there. In my mind,

1662
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 6: I think it. I don't know what I'm a and

1663
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:02,160
Speaker 6: I'm not.

1664
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 2: Even location share. I don't mean like, hey, in this

1665
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:07,439
Speaker 2: exact moment, I'm here. It's like, what is it when

1666
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 2: you share where you're ways going?

1667
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 3: I have several people on my that have my location,

1668
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:16,840
Speaker 3: and I have several people's location, and I listen. My

1669
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:18,599
Speaker 3: favorite thing to do is to sit in bed and

1670
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:20,440
Speaker 3: like watch them. It's like watching myself.

1671
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:21,799
Speaker 4: See that's the problem.

1672
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 3: Oh, I love it.

1673
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 4: Body moving.

1674
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 2: Okay, let's I'm going to share mine with you very

1675
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:28,679
Speaker 2: very okay. So wait, so like, well, you keep me safe,

1676
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,160
Speaker 2: but like at the same time, I also when other

1677
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 2: people say that I'm like red Flag Central. I oh,

1678
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 2: I love it think it's like a red flag.

1679
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 3: I don't spy on my friends or anything like that,

1680
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:40,799
Speaker 3: but I just like to watch them doing their errands

1681
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 3: and that she's at kmart, Okay, she's driving home from work,

1682
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 3: she's over here. Everybody's safe, everybody's good.

1683
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 5: Okay.

1684
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 6: It's my worst nightmare on every side of that scenario.

1685
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:54,160
Speaker 5: I don't know if I don't.

1686
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:54,599
Speaker 4: Love it either.

1687
01:30:55,320 --> 01:31:02,480
Speaker 5: Wow, going in and out of basket forever in basket robins,

1688
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 5: Well have.

1689
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 3: My location they you know from Yeah, oh yeah.

1690
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 2: I always embarrassed how little my location changes, Like.

1691
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 4: What a loser to room to room for you? Literally,

1692
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:21,680
Speaker 4: I'm just like, I'm at work all day, all.

1693
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 2: Night, Like it's so pathetic so that I would feel

1694
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 2: like I need to jush it up a little bit

1695
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 2: so making a.

1696
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:27,439
Speaker 4: Bit more fun.

1697
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:29,679
Speaker 3: Andy will be like, are you gonna leave your house today?

1698
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:30,560
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1699
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:32,320
Speaker 4: I'm getting a lot time.

1700
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 2: But you know, it's a little bit of a red

1701
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 2: flag to me. I don't love it when people love

1702
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 2: it automatically start sharing with like somebody there casually know,

1703
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:44,519
Speaker 2: started dating somebody and they're already sharing, And I'm like that.

1704
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 4: I don't love that.

1705
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 3: I don't love that it feels weird people close to me.

1706
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 3: You know, I don't have children, so I don't you

1707
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 3: know whatever. But people close to me have my location

1708
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:55,720
Speaker 3: and I have theirs, and it's it's just, you know,

1709
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 3: I like to just and I really do. I sit

1710
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,519
Speaker 3: in bed and I look. Everybody home, everybody's safe, what's

1711
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 3: everybody doing?

1712
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 5: So funny?

1713
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 2: Actually I share location with a few people, but I

1714
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:07,960
Speaker 2: never look.

1715
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 4: Oh I literally never ever ever look.

1716
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 2: If they were lost, I would of course look if

1717
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:17,080
Speaker 2: I was concerned for their safety. Obviously I'm the first

1718
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:20,200
Speaker 2: person to look. But I am the worst snoop. I

1719
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 2: I literally never look. I look every day. It's just

1720
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:27,320
Speaker 2: like a ritual, and I just I just everybody's tucked in.

1721
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:29,640
Speaker 2: I know everybody's good. Okay, you know, time to go

1722
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 2: to back.

1723
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 4: Oh that's so cute.

1724
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 2: I I mean, I should look right now. If everyone's

1725
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:36,720
Speaker 2: tucked in, I feel like I almost feel like it's

1726
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 2: spying a little bit, like I shouldn't know if they're

1727
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:41,960
Speaker 2: tucked in. I hope they're I hope they're gallivanting and out.

1728
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:46,599
Speaker 2: In a doubt, they're out and about doing something for COCXA.

1729
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:49,759
Speaker 4: I'm not sure I should know if that's the case.

1730
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 5: That's so funny.

1731
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:53,080
Speaker 4: I love you guys.

1732
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 2: Listen, we survived a very long, important week, so Hi five.

1733
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:00,360
Speaker 2: We didn't say the word Epstein one time to night,

1734
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,879
Speaker 2: so cue the cue, the smoke machine and the bells.

1735
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:06,400
Speaker 4: Thank you for the talkbacks. We love you so much.

1736
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 2: We'll be back on Sunday for a body's crime lab.

1737
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:12,080
Speaker 2: Be with us, Stay safe, We'll see you in a

1738
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 2: few days.

1739
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:13,479
Speaker 4: Good night.