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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane

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Speaker 1: Never Told You reflection of iHeartRadio, and today we are

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Speaker 1: thrilled to be joined by the amazing of the wonderful Joey,

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Speaker 1: who helps us with TikTok and researching and episodes. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: so glad to have you here. Thank you. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to be here. Yes, yes, yes, um, we're very

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Speaker 1: excited to have you. You know, heads up, probably by

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Speaker 1: the title, you can tell this is very controversial topic

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Speaker 1: for sure. Not a sponsor also, I hope obviously, but

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Speaker 1: you know, not a sponsor. Um, we're gonna be a

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Speaker 1: fire if they were. Yes, but this is something, uh,

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Speaker 1: we really wanted to talk about and I had been

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Speaker 1: intending I had an episode kind of planned about it,

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Speaker 1: but it was going to be much more of a

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Speaker 1: like personal I know we're gonna talk about this later,

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Speaker 1: but kind of a personal take on like grieving and

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Speaker 1: fandom and what that that looks like. But yes, all

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Speaker 1: of that said, very excited to talk about this. No,

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Speaker 1: it's controversial, but come with us on this journey listeners. Joey,

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Speaker 1: do you want to introduce yourself anything that I missed

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Speaker 1: that I should have said, um, yeah, hi, I'm Joey

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Speaker 1: A good I don't think you're really missening. I think

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Speaker 1: I'm a producer here at iHeart, So I do research

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Speaker 1: for Smith you from time to time, and I also

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Speaker 1: run the TikTok. So you guys should all go follow

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Speaker 1: that if you haven't already. M yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 1: You have been such a good sport because we just

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Speaker 1: essentially send you very random long clips and are like

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Speaker 1: maybe this or really that, you have to go on

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Speaker 1: and make it with amazing like any crying, it's fine everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get to do that. I don't know the

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Speaker 1: only when there's a little Valentine'sday when I did so

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Speaker 1: far with the So it's fun. It's fun. Definitely giving

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Speaker 1: me an excuse to like spend a lot more time

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Speaker 1: on TikTok too, which is you know, positives and negatives

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Speaker 1: to that. But it depends, well, there is a lot

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Speaker 1: of ground to cover with this. So can you let's

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Speaker 1: get into can you tell us what we're talking about today? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So quick, just trigger warning off the top. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be getting into a lot of like transphobic violence,

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Speaker 1: both like interpersonally and on a state level, some brief

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Speaker 1: discussion of sexual assault, nothing too explicit, the just transphobia,

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Speaker 1: the big thing. Yeah, I'm going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: whole ongoing I guess controversy regarding the Harry Potter franchise

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Speaker 1: as a whole, but particularly this video game that came

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Speaker 1: out recently. And yeah, as Annie had kind of mentioned,

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Speaker 1: also getting into like talking about fandom and what you

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Speaker 1: do when this sort of thing happens, and how to

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Speaker 1: kind of ethically or you know, somewhat ethically interact with

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Speaker 1: this kind of media and yeah, yeah, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have some personal stuff throughout, but

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Speaker 1: I'll just say, like at the top, this is a

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Speaker 1: very We've talked about this several times because not this specifically,

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Speaker 1: but like, you know, everything has its problematic issues, and

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Speaker 1: everybody I always say, like people can do a lot

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Speaker 1: of mental gymnastics, and I guess what I'm saying ultimately

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Speaker 1: is there's no like ones set, one thing fits all,

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Speaker 1: prescriptive thing. And I know that a lot of her

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Speaker 1: has been done by this, so just to acknowledge that,

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Speaker 1: but oh yeah, sure, I don't know, it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of like it's a complicated issue. I mean, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get into like I don't think there's like there's

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Speaker 1: not really a right answer, which is the frustrating part.

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Speaker 1: And again, like you'll see what I go through a

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Speaker 1: lot of the background. It was really first frustrating writing

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Speaker 1: this whole thing because it's like it really is a

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Speaker 1: lot of like back and forth between like a lot

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Speaker 1: of this really violent, terrible things that are happening to

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Speaker 1: trans people and then talking about like nostalgic culture and

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Speaker 1: pop culture and how that affects people, which also is important,

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Speaker 1: but you know, like it again, it's it gets really complicated,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to deny the experiences of anybody

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Speaker 1: or like kind of yeah, like there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: layers to this as we're going to get into. Yes, yes, um,

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Speaker 1: well let's get into it. Can you give us kind

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Speaker 1: of overview of what has been happening, what has brought

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Speaker 1: us to where we are today? So yeah, this this

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Speaker 1: whole I'm going to keep using the word controversy. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to feel about the word, but anyways,

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Speaker 1: this whole controversy started around twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, when

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Speaker 1: fans of the Harry Potter series and noticed that JK.

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Speaker 1: Rowling had liked a number of tweets attacking the trans

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Speaker 1: rights movement, particularly tweets attacking trans women. Apparently at the

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Speaker 1: time she said this was a mistake, but I mean again, like,

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Speaker 1: we'll see where this is going. And then December twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen it really started. JK. Rowling had tweeted her support

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Speaker 1: for a woman who had been fired from the Center

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Speaker 1: for Global Development in the UK for her transpopic comments,

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Speaker 1: and despite responses from LGBTQ plus activists and allies, Rowling

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Speaker 1: refused to back down from her stance. And then twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: things really starting to spiral funnier for everybody in tune,

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Speaker 1: Rowling and tweeted something, Honestly, I'm just gonna say I

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Speaker 1: thought it was a pretty childish response to an article

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Speaker 1: that came out that was titled opinion creating a more

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Speaker 1: equal post COVID nineteen world for people who men Straight.

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Speaker 1: Rowling was upset over the use of the phrase people

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Speaker 1: who men straight rather than women. The article in particular

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Speaker 1: was pointing to how you know, women on binary, people

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Speaker 1: transpend people who men stright have been unfair like particularly

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Speaker 1: affected by the COVID nineteen pandemic and kind of a

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Speaker 1: lot of the dangerous consequences of this taboo on menstrual health,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a pretty you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that's a thing we should be talking about. I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I haven't read the article, but I'm sure it

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Speaker 1: was you know, pretty well put together. But yeah, Rowling,

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Speaker 1: instead of you know, promoting that kind of thing, just

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Speaker 1: decided to take issue with the phrase people who went straight,

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Speaker 1: which I think it's important to remember because when we

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Speaker 1: talk about this, we talk about like turfs that all

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Speaker 1: love like transphobic arguments in particular, I think it's important

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Speaker 1: to remember they usually end up hurting CIS women too

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Speaker 1: and end up promoting patriarchy and like weird kind of

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Speaker 1: ways where it's like yeah, like again, this was an

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Speaker 1: article that was talking about a real issue that was

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Speaker 1: affecting a lot of CIS women and trans people and

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Speaker 1: not women too, but like, yeah, I don't know. And

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Speaker 1: then also just really quick note, I think like the

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Speaker 1: word TURF has made its way into the mainstream kind

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Speaker 1: of along with like the you know the fact that

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Speaker 1: the trans rights movement has gone a lot more attention.

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Speaker 1: TURF stands for trans exclusive radical feminist. I think it's

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Speaker 1: kind of become a catchall for like transphobe, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it particularly is talking about a brand of transphobia that

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Speaker 1: like disguises itself as feminism, usually pretty like light feminism,

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Speaker 1: you know, generally exclusionary feminism. But also yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: and when we talk about the harm that like turfism

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Speaker 1: in particular has caused, it's important to remember that it's

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Speaker 1: like in disguises itself as feminism, and that's part of

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Speaker 1: where a lot of the harm comes in. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: back to Rowling. Following those tweets Deck Rowling, in twenty twenty, JK.

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Speaker 1: Rowling had posted an article on her blog detailing her

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Speaker 1: transphobic views, making a lot of really terrible comments I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to get into because I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: many benefit and sort of just parenting those ideas. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: she at the time, again kind of going back to

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Speaker 1: this whole like turf thing, she takes a very like

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Speaker 1: liberal quote unquote stand like it's a very like well,

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Speaker 1: it's because I support women and because like she does

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Speaker 1: at one point say like I support trans people who

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Speaker 1: are victims of assault and like all the in violence,

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Speaker 1: So all that I just think that, like, and then

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Speaker 1: gets into like basically being like, here, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a very like weird argument where sort of

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Speaker 1: like I support trans people except for the fact that

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Speaker 1: I don't. But yeah, I think at the time, like

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Speaker 1: she was using a lot of like fake niceties to

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Speaker 1: be like, I'm still progressive, I just don't think these

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Speaker 1: people should exist in public, yeah, and saying that like

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Speaker 1: trans women were basically just men and all this like

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Speaker 1: other terrible stuff. Yeah, this article is kind of a

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Speaker 1: turning point. A bunch of factors in the series ended

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Speaker 1: up speaking out against her, Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson, like

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Speaker 1: notably we're both, you know, the leads of those movies.

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Speaker 1: So I think it was interesting a lot of the

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Speaker 1: younger generation, particularly we're speaking out against her. Other celebrities

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Speaker 1: were speaking in support, which was not fun. And also

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Speaker 1: at this point, the Fantastic Beast movies were still coming out,

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Speaker 1: which for spinoffs from the original Harry Potter franchise. I

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Speaker 1: think she had actually written the screenplay for those. Eddie

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Speaker 1: Redmain was the lead of those, and he made like

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Speaker 1: a really vague statement basically being like I support trans people.

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Speaker 1: He literally like became super famous because he's played a

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Speaker 1: trans woman in the Danish Girl, So like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it was that was definitely a weird about it too,

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Speaker 1: where he was sort of like like a lot of

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Speaker 1: people pointed out this is especially when we talk about

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Speaker 1: like sis actors playing trans characters. This is a reason

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Speaker 1: why people are so critical. It is because a lot

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Speaker 1: of time it was like great, like this guy gained

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Speaker 1: so much fame from playing a trans woman and then

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Speaker 1: refuses to like actually make a statement in supportive trans people,

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Speaker 1: refuses to remove himself from the series that is benefiting

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Speaker 1: this person. Yeah, anyways, frustrating. Yeah, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: exploitation when it comes to bettering their own careers without

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Speaker 1: having any sentiment or actual courage to be allies for

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Speaker 1: things like this. And that's the big problem when it

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Speaker 1: comes to overall usage of nonrepresentatives for characters that should

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Speaker 1: be representative. Right, And I bring up this franchise in particular,

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Speaker 1: like we're gonna talk about the video game because that's

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Speaker 1: the most recent thing that's kind of come out of

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Speaker 1: the Harry Potter franchise, but this was the Fantastic Beast

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Speaker 1: movies for a while. We're like the main thing that

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Speaker 1: was coming out from the series that was continuing jk

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Speaker 1: Rowling sort of like relevance at the time. So then

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Speaker 1: since twenty twenty jk Rowling is just double down in

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Speaker 1: her hate comments. She's totally dropped that sort of like

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Speaker 1: faked nicety, like I support some trans people, and just

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Speaker 1: like she started also like outright targeting specific activists on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and sometimes just trans people, like sometimes not even

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Speaker 1: like activists in particular to literally just be like trans

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Speaker 1: people trying to live their lives. She's also like used

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Speaker 1: her platform to speak out against specific legislation, notably this

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Speaker 1: Scotland's Gender Recognition Act in twenty twenty two, which we're

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Speaker 1: going to get to because that's all of it. And

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Speaker 1: then also so this past year in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: the third Fantastic Beast movie came out, and that movie

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Speaker 1: ended up flopping and they ended up canceling like any

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Speaker 1: further movies that would end up coming out. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this was like because of I think at

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Speaker 1: the time I was sort of like, this is great,

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Speaker 1: Like people are actually responding to the fact that like

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Speaker 1: Dick Carawling is saying all this terrible stuff and then

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Speaker 1: not seeing the movie and then this video game made

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Speaker 1: me like maybe not. There were a lot of other

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Speaker 1: issues with those movies. I also just like, don't think

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Speaker 1: they were very good. I don't know. I didn't end

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Speaker 1: up seeing them, so like, who's to say, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of like where we were at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty. Sound to the topic of this episode.

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Speaker 1: Development of the game began in twenty eighteen, so kind

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Speaker 1: of before this became at least like a widely known issue.

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Speaker 1: I guess it officially came out last month. Jaki Rowling

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Speaker 1: wasn't involved in the development of the game, but she

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Speaker 1: gets royalties from it, which I want to point out

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Speaker 1: because I've seen a lot of really ridiculous Twitter arguments

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Speaker 1: of people being like, well, she wasn't directly involved in

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Speaker 1: the game, so it doesn't matter, and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: she's still like royalties, she still makes money from it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have to admit, no matter what, she's a smart

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Speaker 1: businesswoman and she makes sure to copyright the hell out

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Speaker 1: of this series and makes millions of dollars. And she

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Speaker 1: even tweeted in response to people who are criticizing her

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Speaker 1: in her comments that it doesn't matter. I'm still gonna

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Speaker 1: make money, like literally taunting people. So that's kind of like,

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Speaker 1: I have very strong opinions. That is not nice, So

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave it at that. But because of things

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Speaker 1: like that, it's kind of like, no, she knows, she

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Speaker 1: knows she's gonna make money, and she makes sure to

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Speaker 1: let you know no matter what you do, she's gonna

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Speaker 1: stay rich, oh for sure. Yeah. So basically like boycott's

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Speaker 1: or there were calls to like boycott the game in

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Speaker 1: the months leading up to it coming out, and that

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Speaker 1: was the thing that people, yeah kept pointing out was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was that tweet from her where she was like,

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Speaker 1: I still make money, so I don't care like I

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Speaker 1: can say, I can say whatever I want, which is

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Speaker 1: like part of the problem because yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important for people to remember that because

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Speaker 1: I've seen again, like I've seen a lot of I'm

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Speaker 1: a very like online person, so I spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time like reading through Twitter arguments and stuff like this,

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Speaker 1: which is probably not good for my book or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but like I've seen a lot of people that are

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Speaker 1: just like so caught up in this whole Like, well,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't directly involved in creating it. It's like, but

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Speaker 1: the point is the money. The point is like she's

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Speaker 1: making money, You're keeping irrelevant. She sees this money as

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Speaker 1: like I can keep saying all this stuff and there's

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Speaker 1: no consequences. I don't know. Yeah, So there was a

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Speaker 1: trans YouTuber named Jesse Earle who had tweeted any support

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Speaker 1: that Harry Potter franchise current projects while JK Rowling is

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Speaker 1: in charge of it and using her ongoing platform to

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Speaker 1: target and also just by her continued targeting of trans

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Speaker 1: people is harmful to trans people. I think this was

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Speaker 1: like the end of twenty twenty two, and then jk

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Speaker 1: Arling like responded to it on Twitter with like a

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Speaker 1: really nastier response and that sort of again sparked like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the discourse quote unquote about it, like

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Speaker 1: leading up to its release. Also just really quick about

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Speaker 1: this video game, because everybody forgot this really quickly. Back

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Speaker 1: in like May last year. I remember there was some

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Speaker 1: article that came out about the like plot of the

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Speaker 1: video game. So the video game came on to fire

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Speaker 1: because it was using a lot of like really anti

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Speaker 1: semitic tropes. A lot of it were from the Harry

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Speaker 1: Potter series, but they like really really like we're focusing

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Speaker 1: in on that sort of plot, particularly with like the goblins.

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Speaker 1: So I mean that's kind of a there's a big

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Speaker 1: conversation and that people were willing to ignore so much

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Speaker 1: the original and I'm one of them because I also

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed. I didn't. I wasn't at the beginning because

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Speaker 1: I was college years when this was happening when it

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Speaker 1: first started, but I was towards the middle, and then

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Speaker 1: as you start looking at it, they're like, oh, you

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Speaker 1: see that she's actually being racist and anti semitic, and

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Speaker 1: oh she talks about like enslaved people's and what is happening,

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Speaker 1: and nothing is really bad about it, Like even the

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Speaker 1: quip about it is like just taken out and you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or why are we okay, Like we've ignored it for

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Speaker 1: so long until she outright said something and then you're

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Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, yeah, we really really were blind to

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Speaker 1: her darkness for really Yeah, And again with the whole

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Speaker 1: thing about like again like yeah, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: this was coming from the series, and I was a

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Speaker 1: kid when these were coming out. I remember like I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to pick up on this, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people didn't either. I will say

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Speaker 1: I do understand the whole like an, it wasn't that

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Speaker 1: long ago, but it was a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: different type. So people make mistakes sometimes, Like there's a

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Speaker 1: whole conversation we had about like we're focusing on the

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Speaker 1: Goblin stuff, like a lot of that is just from

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Speaker 1: European mythology being very anti semitic, rather then I think

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Speaker 1: jk Rowling in particular, although I do also think that

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Speaker 1: she's gonna be ani semitic. But anyways, like I think

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Speaker 1: the books came out like twenty years ago, he's also

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Speaker 1: came about twenty years ago. Whatever. She had time to

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Speaker 1: be like, oh I made a mistake and whoops, Like

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Speaker 1: my bad, I will but no, like it's gone to

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Speaker 1: the point where like again, she wasn't directly making this

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Speaker 1: video game, but like the company that was making it

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Speaker 1: was like rather than being like, hey, people have pointed

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Speaker 1: out that this is kind of like problematic, they're just

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Speaker 1: using it, and I don't know, I feel like that's

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Speaker 1: like I'm willing to be like if you made a

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Speaker 1: mistake twenty years ago and are like I'm sorry, we'll

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Speaker 1: try and like make the series more inclusive. That's one thing.

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Speaker 1: If you're still going to continue to like perpetuate that,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's weird. I mean, there's one thing

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Speaker 1: about accountability and taking responsibility. When when you don't see

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Speaker 1: that at all, then it doesn't really help the situation.

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Speaker 1: It definitely garners some more criticism, and it should for sure.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, leaning up to the video game's release, there

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Speaker 1: was like a variety of different responses for people. I

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Speaker 1: guess around January again, Okay, disclaimer real quick, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how anything about video games. We went over this

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Speaker 1: before we started recording, but I'm not a big gamer,

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Speaker 1: so Annie and Samantha feel free you to correct me

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Speaker 1: any of this. But I guess some users were posting

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Speaker 1: reviews on Steam, which is a distributor. Yeah, using tags

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Speaker 1: in the reviews that would make the game less popular,

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Speaker 1: so like psychological horror, nft W. Apparently capitalism was one

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Speaker 1: of the tags. I don't know. I just thought that

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Speaker 1: was funny, and then they also created a transphobia tag

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Speaker 1: for the game. Unfortunately, this like kind of campaign wasn't

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Speaker 1: super successful. But I don't know, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: unble that people were trying to like protest the game,

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Speaker 1: and you guys have talked about review bombing and how

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Speaker 1: review bombing can be bad podcasts. But also I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes I don't know, it can be complicated,

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Speaker 1: So I'm not totally mad that people were trying to

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Speaker 1: do that with this game. A couple of streamers also,

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Speaker 1: like a couple of really prominent streamers, We're talking about

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Speaker 1: streaming the game to raise money for a trans charity

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Speaker 1: organization and then ended up receiving a lot of backlash.

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Speaker 1: I think a couple of streamers ended up actually doing this,

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Speaker 1: but Hassan Piker it was one that was like really prominent,

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Speaker 1: and again, like I don't play video games. I know

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Speaker 1: who he is, Like he's like he's a pretty prominent

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Speaker 1: like social media person. He apparently had said that he

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Speaker 1: was like thinking about streaming it and then was like,

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Speaker 1: never mind, I'm not going to do it because people

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Speaker 1: are bulling me online, and I was like all right,

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Speaker 1: Like I think people were just like maybe that's not

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Speaker 1: the best way to like I don't know, like if

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Speaker 1: trans creators are asking people to boycott it, maybe you

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Speaker 1: should just boycott it instead of streaming it, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and then it'll lasted effort to appease critics, The game

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Speaker 1: added a trans character, which so it's like a side character.

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Speaker 1: I guess they show up in like one scene. The

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Speaker 1: character is named Sobrone Ryan, which I guess Sir Rona

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Speaker 1: is the name of a Celtic god for healing and rebirse,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the name is from. But yeah, as Samantha,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, um, jk Rowling is a bit infamous

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Speaker 1: for her like vilely and the nose names for minority characters,

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Speaker 1: and this was one where people were like, Hm, you're

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Speaker 1: naming your trans character sir Rona, Like that sounds like sir.

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Speaker 1: And then Bryan, which is like a male first name. Again,

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Speaker 1: I don't think jk Rowley wasn't one naming it. I

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Speaker 1: don't think she would have wanted this character to even

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Speaker 1: be involved in the game. But um, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of like really funny tweets of

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Speaker 1: like rejected names. They were all like very like they're punished. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're punish, but yeah, I mean there's so much, there's

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Speaker 1: so much to unpack with that, like how that could

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Speaker 1: just go so wrong? I kind of would have been like,

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Speaker 1: all right, we get it, you made an effort, but

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just a better not to just let it.

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Speaker 1: Just let it be because the people who you are

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Speaker 1: trying to hate or two are gonna be the most

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Speaker 1: Like this is more insulting because this is like a

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Speaker 1: level of lights, such a patronizing attempt to be like,

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Speaker 1: but here we did something, yay. Is she's still going

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Speaker 1: to get millions of dollars. Yeah, but there's a character

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Speaker 1: for you that you're really not going to play here

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Speaker 1: you go for sure? Yeah, yeah, Like I don't even

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Speaker 1: think it's a character you can play, like. I think

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Speaker 1: it literally is like like a bartender come across. So

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, And I don't know. It was so weird.

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Speaker 1: It was a really funny day on Twitter. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was weird. It was a weird decision, definitely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So by is this all matters? This is a video game.

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Speaker 1: Going back to Jesse Earl, who's that YouTuber that Rowling

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Speaker 1: had publicly harassed on her Twitter, she had told The

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Speaker 1: Washington Post that buying this game quote keeps Rowling relevant,

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Speaker 1: and then she went on to say she's equating the

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Speaker 1: relevancy with people supporting her views, and her views are

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Speaker 1: directly harmful and attacking and doing damage to the trans community.

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Speaker 1: Which again, like as I said, part of the reason

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Speaker 1: that Decay Rowland keeps doing this is because so far,

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Speaker 1: we use the audience, have shown her that there's not

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Speaker 1: going to be any like financial harm to her doing

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Speaker 1: to continue like saying these kind of things and you know,

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Speaker 1: harassing trans people and really becoming this like spokesperson for

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Speaker 1: a hate movement. Again, I pointed that tweet from Rolling

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Speaker 1: where she sort of was like I don't care. I

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Speaker 1: get my royalty techs and I'm fine, So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, there's the one side of it is it's

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Speaker 1: keeping her relevant, it's showing her that she can use

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Speaker 1: her platform to continue spousing hate and normalizing that hate.

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Speaker 1: But then also it goes a lot deeper than that.

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Speaker 1: The same Washington Post article stated that in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: Senator James lank Board in the US voted against Senate

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Speaker 1: consideration of the Equality Act and LGBTQ Plus LGBTQ Civil

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Speaker 1: Rights Bill, citing a rallying blog post that bill, by

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Speaker 1: the way, still hasn't I think it passed the House,

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Speaker 1: but it's kind of in limbo with like the Senate

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Speaker 1: right now. And then the article also printed to last month,

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Speaker 1: the British government blocked a Scottish bill that would have

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Speaker 1: made it easier for people to change their legal gender.

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Speaker 1: That was that Scottish gender quality bill that Rolling was

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Speaker 1: really outspoken against. And in her twenty twenty blog article,

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Speaker 1: she had said that the bill in effect means that

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Speaker 1: all a man needs to quote become a woman. It's

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Speaker 1: just that he is one, which isn't accurate. And to

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Speaker 1: the actual bill. Yeah, and again that that bill last

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Speaker 1: month was blocked by UK Parliament. I did read one

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Speaker 1: source that said that the particular legislation they used to

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Speaker 1: block it, this is the first time they've used that legislation, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, cool, super fun. And again, yeah, the Equality

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Speaker 1: Act in the US still hasn't passed, so it's going

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Speaker 1: back and forth between the US and the UK here.

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Speaker 1: But it's sort of like the on both. Her rhetoric

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Speaker 1: is being used to argue against specific legislation that literally

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Speaker 1: would just make it easier to exist as a transperson.

426
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: Neither these legislations get into like healthcare or anything like that.

427
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: It literally just makes it easier the Scottish bill in particular,

428
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 1: would have just made it easier to change your name

429
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 1: on official documents and change your gender on official documents.

430
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: There's one side here where it's just like, obviously the

431
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: rhetoric she's putting out is bad and it is hate

432
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: speech leads to violence, and both in her personal and

433
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: then on the legislative level, where like again her speech

434
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: is being used to just buy bills being shot down

435
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: that would make it easier to exists the transperson. None

436
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: of this stuff exists in a vacuum. All of it

437
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: affects each other. Again, Yeah, hate speech fuels violent crime,

438
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: if that's in her personal or on a state level. Well,

439
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm going back to what you said earlier. I think

440
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: part of the real damage is too that she for

441
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: a long time was able to present herself as a feminist,

442
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: and so she was like on this other side of

443
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, people would write articles like she described Donald

444
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: Trump as bolder morn or like you know, had all

445
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: this stuff, and so now you're seeing like these really

446
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: extreme conservatives use what she's saying but being like, but

447
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: remember you liked her so much, Like that's part of

448
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: the the damage of a terfism or like yeah, yeah,

449
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: I think that's that's what scares me because like when

450
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: we talk about transphobia coming from like the really fat right,

451
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: it's easy to just be like, Okay, well they're like

452
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: really conservative, Like I don't know, like I'm not going

453
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: to take obviously it is also serious and has like

454
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: serious impacts on people's like perception of trans people. But

455
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I'm expecting it to come from like

456
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: a Tucker Carlson type person or like even that senitor

457
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: that I mentioned in the in the article who is Republican,

458
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: Like it's there are going to be the people who

459
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: are going to expect to say this kind of stuff.

460
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 1: When it's somebody like jk Rowling, it's like who, by

461
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: the way, I just want to say it, Like she

462
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: calls herself a feminist. I don't know about Like I

463
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: have a big believer and you need you need to

464
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: actually practice feminism. You can't just say her a feminist

465
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: and I don't know, Like I remember when when the

466
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: back last spring, when when the stuff about like Roe

467
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: versus Wade was coming out and they were like with

468
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. One thing that I saw that it

469
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: was interesting with somebody who was like, hey, take her all.

470
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: It is one of those people that keeps saying she's

471
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: a feminist and she sports like women's autonomy and and

472
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: not harming women's bodies and all this stuff, but then

473
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: she's completely silent on this issue that is like affecting

474
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: a lot of women and not women too. But like,

475
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't about feminism, Maybe this is just about hate.

476
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: And there's a million other examples you can find in

477
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: like pretty much any turf argument of how it's just

478
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: like it is patriarchy under the facade of feminism and

479
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: women's rights. And I really would like encourage people to

480
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: like look deeper into a lot of those arguments and

481
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: how they specifically end up harming CIS women as well

482
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: as trans folks. Yeah, it's as a whole mess. And

483
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: I think another thing that has to be said about

484
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: where she was pre quotes and tweets, I guess is

485
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: that she really worked as if she was an ally

486
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: to the queer community, talking about like you know, oh,

487
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: yeah Dumbledore is definitely gay and all these things, and yeah,

488
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: absolutely Hermione could have been a black woman, what are

489
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: you talking about? And she gained the trust of so

490
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: many young people who for so long felt like they

491
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: were alone and isolated. And the reason and I'll never

492
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: We're going to talk a little more, but like the

493
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: reason they loved the Harry Potter series, it was a

494
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: light in this darkness because they saw as an outcast,

495
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: you can be special like less the message all kids

496
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: want to hear. But then to hear her go on

497
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: to say yeah, and I'm an ally for the queer

498
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: people and they definitely were part of the Wizarding World,

499
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: which we all wished was a real thing. Maybe it is,

500
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it was a real thing, and

501
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: felt so so much love for the series and fell

502
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: in love with a series which we've talked about previously

503
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: about what happens when you really love the characters that

504
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: out there, that you have created, even for yourself, a

505
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: different world, and you put yourself in this world, and

506
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: then have her come and slash it, literally murder the

507
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: hopes and love and dreams of these kids who grew

508
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: up and maybe even found themselves a little bit through

509
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: her series. The betrayal of that in itself is so dangerous,

510
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: and we have come back to from being like Alli

511
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: and giving hope and giving someone and out and lights

512
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: to darkness of like, yeah, oh my god, she hates

513
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: me or she hates people like me. Everything that she

514
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: has said is falling apart, and she's celebrating it. She's

515
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: celebrating it by using her influence in society, in politics

516
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: and policy. She's using it as a way of gaining

517
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: more attention through the news media and all the media,

518
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: and then also teaching those parents who have already been

519
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,959
Speaker 1: against the kids to once againe double down. And then

520
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: when we come to see a game that celebrates it's that.

521
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: But there's no way we can I mean, no, you

522
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: really can't. Even when people tell me they buy it,

523
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: or they did they're thinking of buying it, the first

524
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: thing they say is I know, I know she's bad.

525
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: So when that's the first statement that comes out of

526
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: your mouth, you know there's no way to separate this

527
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, And that's what makes it complicated, I think.

528
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: And again, like I grew up with the series and

529
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: like it was my favorite books and I was a kid,

530
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: I definitely like have a lot of like really good

531
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: memories attached to it. I totally understand that aspect and

532
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: also like amas but involved in like the fandom today

533
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: so like I got thought too, but um yeah again

534
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: it just really good. A couple of stats too about

535
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: the state of trans rates as of right now, this

536
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: is gonna be focusing on the US just because it

537
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: shows based in the US. I don't know as much

538
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: about UK politics, although I've heard it's kind of a

539
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: show from friends that are there. But yeah, again, like well,

540
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: actually one thing really quick with the UK, so the

541
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: and again going back to the whole like people buying

542
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: the game and being like I know, like I know,

543
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: which's terrible. I know't the weekend this video game came out,

544
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: there was a sixteen year old trans girl that was

545
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: murdered in the UK. Does that murder have anything directly

546
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: to do with the video game? No, I don't think, like,

547
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's like this is a

548
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: lot of people on Twitter and on social media we're

549
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: pointing out kind of the sort of this weird feeling

550
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: of like you have this, you have all these discussions

551
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: about this video game, and like can you support playing

552
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: this video game or buying this video game or like

553
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: all of that are still like being a fan of

554
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: the series, but then the reality of the situation is

555
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: like this sort of hate speech the jk Rowling is

556
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: championing is what ends up getting people killed, is what

557
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: ends up like literally, like a sixteen year old girl

558
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: was killed because of the kind of hate speech that

559
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: jk Rowling has turned into her entire brand at this point.

560
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: According to a twenty twenty report from every Town for

561
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: Guns Safety in the US, the number of trans people

562
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: we've been murdered doubled between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty one.

563
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's and again, it's not just k Rowling.

564
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like people across the political spectrum

565
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: that I think, like have responsibility for this rise in

566
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: hate of trans people. But she is a very provident

567
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: spokesperson here a lot of the people of use so

568
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: we're like moral panic when talking about this, I would agree,

569
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: like I think we're in the middle of like a

570
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: full blown moral panic around queer people in particular, on

571
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus people in general, but like particularly trans people

572
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: and particularly trans women. I think, yeah, again, like it's

573
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: affecting everybody, it's affecting all trans people, but I think

574
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: trans women are sort of just like that's the main

575
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: group that jk Rowling's targeting that has been the main

576
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: group targeted in a lot of like grooming groomer like

577
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: stuff that's going around and all that. But yeah, as

578
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: of right now, the ACLU is tracking three hundred and

579
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: seventy one anti LGBTQ plus bills throughout the US. A

580
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: number of them particularly target trans people and trans kids. Literally,

581
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: like in the Times, I began putting together like research

582
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: for this episode, Tennessee passa bill the band drag performances

583
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: from public spaces or locations where they could be viewed

584
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: by a minor. And if you look at the bill,

585
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: the language that they use is super vague. I would

586
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: argue that's on purpose, And a lot of activists are

587
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: worried that like this kind of combined with the sort

588
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: of like transphobic view that like trans women are just

589
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: men in drag or vice versa, this bill could be

590
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: used to criminalize like trans people simply existing in public

591
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: or in spaces around children that are private. It's again,

592
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: it's it's not just public at this point now, it's

593
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: also private because it is like it could be a

594
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: private entertainment menu. It could literally be like your home

595
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: if you have kids, or like you know, ore had

596
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: children and your family unit. Yeah, and this isn't like

597
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: the only bill like thought that's going around. Tennessee also

598
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: passed a bill limiting, not limiting banning genderperving care for

599
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: trans kids in Tennessee, which, again really quick I think

600
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: says people get confused when we talk about like gender

601
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: affirming care for kids in particular, because I just assume

602
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: that it means like physical transition. That doesn't necessarily mean that,

603
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: like sometimes it can mean like puberity blockers, which aren't permanent.

604
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: And I'm also not a doctor, so nobody like take

605
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: my particular word for this. But sometimes that literally just

606
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: means like being able to like acknowledge that your kid

607
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: doesn't identify as the gender they've been assigned, which like

608
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: usually just means like letting them change how like their

609
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: hair looks, or how they dress, or like how they

610
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: want to be addressed in public, none of them. Like

611
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: if people people get so caught up and they're like, oh,

612
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: it's not reversible, Like I don't know about Like I'm

613
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: somebody who's changed the names that I've gone by, and

614
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: like that's reversible, Like that is really easy to change.

615
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: I have short hair, I can grow it out really easily.

616
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: Or cut it again, and I changed my outfits every day.

617
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys. I thought that was

618
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: a pretty normal thing, but I don't know. Yeah, so

619
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: it's frustrating. We are living at like a really scary

620
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: time to be a trans person, to be a queer person,

621
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: but particularly to be trans person. Like yeah, and both

622
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: like legislatively on a state level, and also just like, yeah,

623
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: there are more and more trans people that are being murdered,

624
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: particularly trans women. Yeah, it's it's a mess. Yeah, but

625
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: let's talk about a video game. So yeah, the game

626
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: is doing well, which is unfortunate. And again, like the

627
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: frustrating thing, like Samanthony said, like as soon as everybody

628
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 1: breaks up, it's like, I know, like there really is there.

629
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: Most people know there's a pretty much strong argument against

630
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: getting it or against supporting any sort of like Harry

631
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: Potter franchise content, and yet people still do. And as

632
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: much as I want to be like everybody, look at

633
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: all of the facts, all this terrible stuff that's happening,

634
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: how this connects to hate speech, how it's connects to

635
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: this particular woman's platform. Let's stop, like, let's just like

636
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: pretend that this doesn't exist, that's not going to happen,

637
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: Like if it would have happened, it would have happened.

638
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: At this point, I'd rather just focus on like the

639
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: reality of the situation than like what I'd want in

640
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: an ideal world. So yeah, I think this does kind

641
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: of get the question. I'm also like, I don't want

642
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: to like vilify anybody that has gotten the game or

643
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: anybody that does continue to like enjoy this kind of content.

644
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: I will say the people like I keep saying on

645
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: Twitter that are like making these really elaborate excuses of

646
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: like here's why I particularly should be allowed to enjoy

647
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: the game or how I should Like that's dumb, Like

648
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's another story. I will argue with

649
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: you about that, but whatever. I mean. At the same time,

650
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: like I get it again, Like I have no interest

651
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: in buying the video game. I don't think people should

652
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: buy the video game, but I do get being attached

653
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: to this universe, Like, yeah, I grew up with it.

654
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: I was a huge fan when I was a kid.

655
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: I have been somewhat involved with like the fandom stuff

656
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: on TikTok, and actually I have like a lot of

657
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: really close friends that are really involved with like TikTok,

658
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: like cosplay content and fan fiction and all that, and

659
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: like I get being attached to this series. And also

660
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: again because it's so popular like worldwide, there's a lot

661
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: of people that are just like casual fans and like

662
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: grew up with reading it or like you know, are

663
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: going to get it for their kids because it's like

664
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: a staple now sort of childhood like reading these books.

665
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: So it's hard. There's not like there's not an easy answer,

666
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: which is the fresh training part of all of this. Yeah,

667
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean just the things, Like I obviously have very

668
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: strong opinions when it comes to morality issues. The biggest

669
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: thing to me is like, you know, just admit it.

670
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: It's fine, Like we get it. It's hard. Like the

671
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: game is set up beautifully. I have seen YouTube videos

672
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: previews of it and be like, people are so excited

673
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: because this is your Tiffany, so you can tell me

674
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. But the design of it is unique,

675
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: and the way they really created this world apparently is

676
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: really pretty and beautiful. The way you can play it

677
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: is newer, kind of like people's love for Elden Ring.

678
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for those who think I'm being awful. For

679
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: compare the two, but the graphics of it is different

680
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: and has been upgraded over the years. So a lot

681
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: of the video gamer people, gamers as we would say,

682
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: try to say that's the reason, Like I literally has

683
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: say like, oh, they can do this in this world

684
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: and that's never been a thing, or you can do

685
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: these things on this level, and you know, people love

686
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: anything spectacular and new and changing, So whatever they have

687
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: created for this game, I get it. I get that

688
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: that's an appeal, but yeah, it is really hard not

689
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: to see when you see a community hurting, suffer and

690
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: being persecuted on such a depth level. Constantly hearing stories

691
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: of people being murdered or heard or kicked out, being

692
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: threatened to be removed from a family, like being threatened

693
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: to be arrested because you do support your family. It's

694
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: kind of hard to see. But it's also some of

695
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: these same people who would probways say that, but this

696
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: world when I was younger really weren't for me and

697
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: really helped me see some things. So the complicated place

698
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: that they are at it is it is painful because

699
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: you have this decision of like how do I grieve

700
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: but I don't want to let it go, yeah, and

701
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: I just just to know, I don't think you realized

702
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: you did this, that you did look at me via

703
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: this video call and say this is your turf Annie,

704
00:38:51,840 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: which give very very funny. That's the thing we should do, though,

705
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: is we should try to reclaim like to you are,

706
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: I just make whatever people share about like, I don't know,

707
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: this is your whelm, this is you, this is your

708
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: specially who well you have it on videos, we can

709
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: play it back. But I was very like, wait a minute,

710
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: I know actually you did make a face and I

711
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: didn't get it at that point, but yeah, your I

712
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: will say too when it comes to like also like

713
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: the fandom spaces and like the being your turf to

714
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: you are of the kind of thing and somebody like

715
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time in online fandom spaces,

716
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 1: and I think in general they tend to be pretty queer.

717
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: This may also just be like my bubble, but like,

718
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: they tend to be pretty queer bubbles. I've seen the

719
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: same with the Harry Potter fandom. Like I think the

720
00:39:54,160 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: like online social media, very like fandom space usually tends

721
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: to be very queer, and I think that also makes

722
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: it complicated because like it can be frustrating as a

723
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: queer person, like feeling stuck and feeling yeah, I'm like

724
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I just I recognize that's that's

725
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: that can be particularly frustrating. Is again as somebody else

726
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: or who is who's queer and like trans like it's

727
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: it's it can be frustrating. It could be really really

728
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: really frustrating. Yeah. Because also along with that, I've seen

729
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 1: a lot of like trans masculine people in particular speak

730
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: out and be like, well, I'm really attached to this thing,

731
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: so I'm just going to continue to sort of like

732
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: ignore it and like enjoy this media because it's really

733
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: important to me personally. I think it's important to recognize that,

734
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: like the majority of the people that are being really

735
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: really harmed are trans women. It's going to be transmulin general,

736
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: it's going to be queer people in general, but like

737
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: it's trans women, Like trans women are going to be

738
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: particularly targeted by this, and I think, I don't know,

739
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: I guess like I just would ask people to like

740
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: use this as a time to likely reflects on like

741
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: how do we stand up for one another within the community,

742
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: because I have also seen the argument of people again,

743
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 1: Like I've seen a frustrating number of videos of people

744
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: being like I'm trans and I'm saying that you can

745
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: buy the studio game it doesn't matter, and it's like

746
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: usually they're trans masculine people. I don't know. I just

747
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: I would encourage people to like really think about who's

748
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: being affected, who is being harmed, and just like stand

749
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: up for other people in your community. Like, this is

750
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: the time when we need to like have each other's backs. Again,

751
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: we're in the middle of a full blown oral panic

752
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: around trans people. We need to have each other's backs.

753
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: Queer sis queer people too, we need to have each

754
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: other's backs. You guys are not saying from this either,

755
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: like I don't know, it's yeah, I mean, and that's

756
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: absolutely when it comes down to it. When it's attacking

757
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: any type of marginalized community in general, it comes down

758
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: onto all of us. And obviously women are a part,

759
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: not necessarily of the overall marginalized, but they are marginalized.

760
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: You are not a sisman, so therefore you or do

761
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: not have the power, So yes, this will come down

762
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: onto you, which we've seen it is. It goes hand

763
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: in hand. When they go for one, they go for all,

764
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: and what we're seeing is when we're not banning together,

765
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: it allows for the breakdown. And then if we think

766
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: one aspect or one injustice is more important than the other,

767
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: then you've got a problem because you are not truly

768
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: seeing the fact that you're a part of the problem.

769
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: And it's really naive to think that you're one issue.

770
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: And I'm talking to women in general. It's just like

771
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: I'm a woman and trans women are affront to me

772
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: because that takes away from my woes and my inability

773
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: to get all the rights, which is not true. Then

774
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: you are woefully ignorant of the fact that you are

775
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: part of the problem. Absolutely, But yeah, I don't know. Again,

776
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: I yeah, with the whole kind of conversation about then,

777
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: like what do we do with this piece of media now,

778
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: like and I'm talking about Harry Potter and general in

779
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: any sort of Harry Potter thing, because again it's not

780
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: it's not just the video game. The video games like

781
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: the most obvious version of like here's this thing that

782
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: people can buy that people can give their money too.

783
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 1: But it was also like in all the like arguments

784
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: about it, people bring up like the attention economy, which

785
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: you got again going back to like the whole dayk

786
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: Rowling thing, like she's benefiting from the series being really

787
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: popular and benefiting from the attention economy. Like, but also

788
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to say, like people just can't enjoy

789
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: this because I don't know. Again, like I think, I

790
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: do think people can enjoy things as long as it's

791
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: not like hert make somebody. I don't know, I think

792
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: it gets complicated, but like I do think, like I

793
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: get the whole like people just wanting to enjoy the

794
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: series too, And I mean, I think the sort of

795
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: obvious answer is like figuring out a way to like

796
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: be involved in fan culture and fan them and not

797
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: giving money that's going to go to jk Rowling, like

798
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: not buying merch that's directly going to benefit jk Rowling.

799
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 1: There's lots of an independent artists out there. Personally, I'm

800
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: a big advocate of fan fiction. I think like fan

801
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: fiction is always a good thing if definitely read some

802
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: like transversions of characters too, which is fine, um and

803
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: all of that. But yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

804
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: I would love to hear you guys. We have suggestions.

805
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: We had reader we had listeners who sent their own

806
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: and some really good uh rewrites of Harry Potter. Should

807
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: I would yeah, oh my gosh. Um. Uh So originally

808
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: this was you did a much better job than what

809
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: I was gonna do. I was literally just going to

810
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: have a conversation about grieving and what happens because for me,

811
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: like I you know, I graduated high school when the

812
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: seventh book came out, I graduated college from the seventh

813
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: movie came out. It was there on like my darkest times.

814
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: I loved it. I liked travel to lond the idea,

815
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 1: the whole I was like, like I said, fan doesn't

816
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: describe it. And it was such a big part of

817
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: my identity. And that's the danger. Because I've talked before

818
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: on here, I use fiction to cope with trauma. Um,

819
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: and it's very important to me when you let something

820
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: get that close and then it hurts you so bad,

821
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: and that's normal. Like I mean, I do this fare

822
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: but I think plenty, like it's a pretty common thing.

823
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's the thing I keep trying to bring up,

824
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: Like I don't plan people for being fans of the series.

825
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 1: There's a lot of there's a lot of good stuff

826
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: in it, and like yeah, and people do use this

827
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: sort of stuff to cope with trauma. Again, I've seen it,

828
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: Like I've read a lot of fan fiction, so I

829
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: know a lot of people use like fan fiction and

830
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: the sort of stuff to also deal with like their

831
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: identities as like queer people and as trains people and um.

832
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: And that's impacted me a lot too, Like that's definitely

833
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I get that side of it.

834
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm like, I never would fault anybody

835
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: for being attached a series because again, now it's on

836
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: the hypocrite, but also like media affects us and we

837
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 1: can't always you know, none of us can predict where

838
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: these authors are going to go with their lives, unfortunately.

839
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, well that's kind of the interesting thing because

840
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, there's a lot of what

841
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: about is them that happens in this argument where they're like,

842
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: well you'd like that though, right, And that's problematic too,

843
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, but JK. Rowling is like the

844
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: heart of this, Like I can't I can't even read

845
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: fan fiction anymore, Like I can't not think of this

846
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: when I consume any of the media, and like I'm

847
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 1: not saying I'm like holier than that at all, because

848
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: it was like twenty twenty. I knew she was probably

849
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: meant before them, but that was when I was like, Okay,

850
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't do this anymore. And like we said,

851
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: I'm a huge It's true. There's so many like personal

852
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: experiences and mental gymnastics and all of these things that

853
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: go into consuming a thing. And so I also, you know,

854
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: I have friends that have got the game, and I

855
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: don't fallow them, but for me, it's become like I

856
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: literally shut down when people bring it up because it

857
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: was so important to me and it hurt me so bad.

858
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: And so many listeners have written and I'm like all

859
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: kinds of the whole spectrum of this over the years

860
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: and now, like I think of what the stories they've sensed,

861
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: and it's just it's upsite, Like I guess what I'm saying.

862
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: It's like I get I get all sides of this,

863
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: and I also get if, like you're really hurting and grieving,

864
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: because that's kind of where I am, right, Oh for sure, Yeah, yeah,

865
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the thing. It's like, You're not

866
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: the only one I've known people in my age group,

867
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: it's gonna say generational, like, I'm not doing this to

868
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: myself who use that too? Like literally, we're so traumatized

869
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: by family, by love, by abuse that held onto that world.

870
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: And I keep saying that as a world because it

871
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: is it was something that was created to keep them safe,

872
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: and then they created it as a bigger part of

873
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 1: themselves so they be who they were and who they are.

874
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: And then we look at the fact that she destroyed it.

875
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: She destroyed it, I think for those people, for all

876
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: of us because I liked it. I liked it. I'm

877
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: a casual person. Don't get me wrong. Now. I you

878
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: would watch Harry Potter the first one, especially as a

879
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: Christmas movie, like I liked it. I was not a diehard.

880
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: I that is not my escapism. But I as even

881
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,479
Speaker 1: almost like the social work side of watching people being

882
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: able to really have a coping mechanism in a healthy way,

883
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: even though I'm like, oh, you're really really in this

884
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: imaginary world. But it's also good for you because it

885
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: is doing so much for you. And then to have

886
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: that go for a flip, it's such a disruption. It

887
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: takes the wind out of everything. It takes your breath

888
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 1: almost of the jarring turnaround of what it was. And yeah,

889
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: I again, I have a lot of opinions, and I

890
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: don't want to it sounds very critical. I sound very critical,

891
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: and I hate to be that way. When I'm like

892
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: this game, you don't have an excuse. But the fact

893
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: that the matter is that this goes hand in hand,

894
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 1: and it is it has been tainted, this, this reality,

895
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: this fiction, this conversation, something that was so pure at

896
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: one point in time, what we thought has been really

897
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: tainted and we can't not see why, so affecting everyone

898
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: her whole conversation. She had garnered so many right wing

899
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 1: people under her support group that it's overwhelming. The same

900
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: people she was tweeting against and yelling at in twenty

901
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: seventeen suddenly flipped and have become a part of her team.

902
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: And then we see women who have forever tried to

903
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: villainize trans women. It's being feeling justified because here's an

904
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: icon saying exactly what they've been saying for so years,

905
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: and now they have someone to justify that. And then,

906
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: also knowing that she's successful, there was no cancel culture

907
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: for her. She tried to pretend like there was there wasn't.

908
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: And then we also see that people like you Joey

909
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: and people like you Annie, who have so much emotion

910
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: and so much pain from people saying like, I'm sorry,

911
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: but I still want to be a part of it,

912
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: not because they're doing something against you, but they're definitely

913
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: not supporting you. Like that's if you're If you're not

914
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: doing something that is to be an ally, that means

915
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: you're not supporting them. I mean, that's kind of how

916
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: it turns out to be. And it's harsh and it's cruel.

917
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: And I say that to myself as well. I know

918
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: that hearing you as the people in my life that

919
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: I care about to do something that is going against

920
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: the community who are hurting because of this community, that

921
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: means I'm going against the support. I'm not supporting you

922
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: like I said I would. And that's the conversation and

923
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: things that you have to think about. And in this

924
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: it's just a game. I get it. It's just a game,

925
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: but it's also people's lives. It's also people hearts in

926
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: all of this, right, And that's one of the things

927
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: I think this episode I want to do because one

928
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: of the things I also keep saying is like a

929
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: lot of people that I think our allies and their

930
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: heart and our supporters, but just haven't like connected the

931
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: dots exactly between like they know, like O. Jk. Rowling's

932
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: really transphobic, but they haven't like totally realized, like no,

933
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: here's how the specific things that she's saying are affecting

934
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 1: people's lives, are affecting legislation are affecting like the general

935
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,479
Speaker 1: kind of conversation that we are having about trans people

936
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: and about trans women in particular. And I think I understand,

937
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: Like that's it is a hard sort of thing to

938
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: really connect because it is a lot of like, yeah,

939
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: it is a lot of also just like how do hate?

940
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: How do these like cultures of hate happen? But it's there,

941
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: and this is like what I want to do is

942
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: sort of like connect those dots for people and again

943
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: also like remain sympathetic. I do understand, and yeah, again

944
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: like totally understanding it to the series. I'm not saying

945
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: people should just throw there. There was I had like

946
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: a bit like a TikTok break talked about this and

947
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: somebody like commented and was like I'm throwing away my

948
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: books right now, and I was like, no, you don't

949
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: have to do that, Like that doesn't do anything what

950
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: you think it does. This is an important conversation to

951
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: keep having, and it is a conversation that we do

952
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: keep happening because they're just keep There's been a Harry

953
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: Potter content that's been coming out like more or less

954
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 1: consistently for the past couple of years. There was a

955
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: Team Folk article I saw that kind of got into

956
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: the same thing that I came out a year ago

957
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: because of the twentieth anniversary special that was on HBO

958
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: Max that I had totally forgotten about it, but there

959
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 1: was again I remember like there was a whole conversation

960
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: around that too, um and people being like yeah, like

961
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: the same sort of conversation about like nostalgia and being

962
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: attached to the series, but then also like recognizing like

963
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: people's lives aren't being put in danger or like literally

964
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 1: physically armed or guilt and like that is also something

965
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: that is important to remember. Yeah. I don't think that

966
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,240
Speaker 1: there's not an easy answer, and that is that's frustrating

967
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: about all this, but it is like I think the

968
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: best thing people can do is like just continue to

969
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: keep having this conversation, continue to keep acknowledging that what JK.

970
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: Rowling is doing is harmful, and beyond that too, like

971
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: continue to stay informed again, Like there's all of these

972
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,919
Speaker 1: bills in the US right now that are targeting trans

973
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: people and queer people. Pay attention to that. Like, I'm

974
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: sure wherever you are listening to this, there's something in

975
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: your state right now that he's either past or is

976
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: like in consideration right now, Like, look into that. Pay

977
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 1: attention to what's happening. If you want to be an allay,

978
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: be an ally, that's more important than whether you're going

979
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: to like burn your boer merch that you bought in

980
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, Like, I don't know. I like I still

981
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: have like a griffindor blank that I bought when I

982
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: was eleven that I'm like, I'm going to keep this

983
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 1: because I like it, and yeah, like me throwing it away,

984
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 1: it's not going to affection, okay. Rawlings like annual income right, yeah, exactly,

985
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: and just the annual income I I was looking this

986
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: up apparently for the standard apparently for a writer's royalties

987
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: is fifteen percent. So when the book sales happened, I

988
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: think as of twenty twenty two, she made one point

989
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: one five billion dollars, So we know she was a

990
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: savvy businesswoman, especially when it came down to the movies.

991
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: Likelihood of her making that much money off of this

992
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: game alone, it's pretty high. And because she is a

993
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: supporter of anti trans bills, the likelihood that she's giving

994
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: money to that very high. So oh and she has, Yeah,

995
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: she's definitely given so as a reminder that money does

996
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: go specifically against trans people. Yeah, happy days. Yeah. And

997
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: this is also where with this when we're talking about money,

998
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: like independent rich shops exists and didn't like we love

999
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: buy book second hand? Yes, I know, like streaming is

1000
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: the norm now, so it's sort of hard to do

1001
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: the whole like buy your DVD second hand, but like

1002
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, like there's other options. Does eBay still

1003
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 1: do that? The second hand buying? What did that used

1004
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 1: to be? I know, y'all, y'all are not old enough

1005
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: in collod books and I think it was pre Amazon

1006
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: and it was eBay and then it became Amazon. Oh

1007
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: my god, I'm dating myself. I'm still talking yea, Oh

1008
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: my god, Oh wow, my jello and put myself to

1009
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: bed early. I mean wow, I mean that sounds nice. Yeah,

1010
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: it is. It's like I feel like we could come

1011
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: back and do a revisit because it is so complicated.

1012
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 1: Because there's also a part of me that like, I

1013
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: hate that she's done this because it's the movies weren't

1014
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: made in a vacuum. Like sure, if some people agree

1015
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: with her, but there was a lot of people who

1016
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: didn't and who have come out against it. So I

1017
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: hate that that's happening. And then I I would love

1018
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: to bring someone else who knows more about this than me.

1019
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 1: But there's been a lot of articles about what's going

1020
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: on with trans women, specifically in the UK. It's not

1021
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 1: it's still it's bad, but it's not quite the same

1022
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: as what's going on in the US, so that is

1023
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 1: a larger conversation to be had as well. Yeah, Like, again,

1024
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: I don't know as much about UK like politics and culture.

1025
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: I spent my entire life in the US. But at

1026
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: least from what I've heard, it's like it doesn't I've

1027
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: definitely like seen articles when I pointed too, like jk

1028
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 1: Rowling in particular, in her attitude towards this, like it

1029
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: doesn't come that also doesn't come out of a vacuum,

1030
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: like that is very much reflective of how like the

1031
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: culture around trans people and around career people is in

1032
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: the UK. But again, I'm not an expertal of this.

1033
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: While like I don't know, but yeah, above to hear

1034
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: somebody's thoughts, who who knows more on this, because yeah,

1035
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: and it's scary. It's it's a scary world to live in.

1036
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: I do try to be an optimist against my better judgment. Um,

1037
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: so like I am hopeful that I don't know, I

1038
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: do the fact that we're having this conversation at least

1039
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: like to me is like people are talking about it.

1040
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: It's not like this is just something that's happening and

1041
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: like nobody really cares, like there are there wasn't there

1042
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: was an effort to boycott and it wasn't particularly successful,

1043
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: but like it was there, and I have seen a

1044
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: lot of people like sharing information about it and and

1045
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: sharing information about like a lot of these like anti

1046
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: trans and anti career bills that are going around, and

1047
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: that gives me hope. I don't know. Again, it's everything's

1048
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:51,479
Speaker 1: about right now, Like, yeah, I don't know. I feel

1049
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: like that's the overall Yeah, okay, job, Yeah, I mean

1050
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: it is. I think like that's a good a good

1051
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: takeaways to stay informed because I think a lot more

1052
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: people know now at the very least where they they

1053
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 1: didn't before, that this is something we should be talking

1054
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: about or paying attention to. Oh yeah, and I want

1055
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: to clarify, like I said before, like I want to

1056
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: say realistic and just be like I do recognize that

1057
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: I think at this point, like we can't just be like,

1058
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: here's all these bad things and this is why everybody

1059
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: should just forget the series exists and like make Jaker rawling,

1060
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: like I don't think that's gonna work. But also the

1061
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: fact that I don't think that's gonna work, I don't

1062
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: think like it hasn't worked at this point, that doesn't

1063
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: mean that like there aren't things that we can do

1064
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: with that are going to like at least be like

1065
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: harm reduction, you know, like, yeah, we shouldn't keep talking

1066
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: about this. We should keep talking about all this stuff

1067
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: that's happening, because that's always going to be better than

1068
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: just ignoring it. And yeah, or like even if like

1069
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: maybe a mass white cot isn't going to work, that

1070
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: does not mean that you should just like give your

1071
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: money to the corporations they're going to go directly rack

1072
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: to Chaker rawling like you should or like whatever franchise

1073
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: was what I am on the side of, Like, I

1074
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: think if people enjoy the series, I under stand that,

1075
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: and I respect people's ability to, like you consume the

1076
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: media that works for you, but also have some responsibility

1077
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: and think about how your actions and where you're putting

1078
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 1: your money are affecting other people and are affecting the

1079
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: queer community and the trans community. Um, and like what

1080
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: are some alternatives that. Yeah, I think everybody should just

1081
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: read fan fiction and everything will be fine. Yeah, yet

1082
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: doub Joey, don't tell people. Yeah, I know you afections

1083
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: like Luke Skywalkers of particular for it of like, so

1084
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna send me these right, I'm outing her. You

1085
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: really did experiments to see like what gets more clicks.

1086
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: It's been fun, I was what I was putting together.

1087
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: This is because I think the one like internet fandom

1088
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: thing that I had some I don't have a huge

1089
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: chicks Doc account, but I have friends that are big

1090
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: on like Harry Potter TikTok and like Marauder's TikTok in particular.

1091
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: And this is like the point where I was like, oh,

1092
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: my god, somebody's gonna find my TikTok through list Like,

1093
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,439
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna like I've set myself up, Oh my god,

1094
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: like because there's gonna be some video that I was

1095
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: in that my friend Typo that's gonna lead my account

1096
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: and somebody's like, you're criticizing JK Rowling and yeah, you

1097
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: make I don't know. That's the that's the worry. That's

1098
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: the concern people find people find, Oh my god, especially

1099
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: when you get out in which I guess that brings

1100
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: us to wrap up, Joey. Thanks is always for coming on.

1101
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: I know there was even more stuff we could talk about.

1102
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: So come back any anytime, um to revisit this or

1103
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: anything else where. Can the good listeners find you for sure? Yeah,

1104
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: you guys can find me on Twitter or Instagram at

1105
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: Pat not Pratt. That is Pat t which is my

1106
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 1: last name, and then not an ot and then pr Att,

1107
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: which is not my last name. I have mentioned my TikTok.

1108
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: I will not be telling you guys my TikTok, but

1109
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: if you can find it, good for you. But you

1110
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: should follow the stuff Mom never told you tiktoka. Yes

1111
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: I do that too, Yes you are we always love

1112
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: having you on here, so thanks for coming. Thanks for

1113
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: all this work on such a sensitive topic. I know

1114
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: this is emotionally taxing. Yeah, and it's a lot, it's

1115
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: a lot going on. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

1116
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: If you would like to find us listeners, you can

1117
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: or emails Stefania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You

1118
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, Mom Stuff Podcast, or Instagram

1119
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: and TikTok at stuff Mom Never Told You, also on

1120
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: YouTube now. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,

1121
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, Christina. Thanks again to Joey who helps with

1122
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: TikTok and research and this episode, and thanks to you

1123
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: for listening Stuff on Ever Toldy's direction of iHeartRadio more podcast.

1124
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: In my Heart Radio, you can check out the Hurt

1125
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: Radio app pop a podcast wherever you listen to your

1126
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: favorite shows. H