1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: The following. He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Mick Shot 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: screaming live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Official 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys a time for a special edition of Mick 5 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: Shots here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com on this player 6 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: day off in training camp from Oxnard, California. Mickey Spagnola, here, 7 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: you're used to here in Bill Jones bring us into 8 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: this show, Everson Walls. But Bill lef Everson still back 9 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: in Dallas, and they just left me by myself. That's rude. 10 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: So we are gonna have a special guest here on 11 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: Mick Shots. Brad Sham Radio Voice. So the Dallas Cowboys starting. 12 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: If I've got my math right, like sixth decade doing 13 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: this stuff? Do you ever count them up? I don't 14 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: count him by decades because that really sounds ponderous. It's 15 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: it's my forty third season on the radio broadcast. So 16 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: all right, eleventies, eighties, nineties, two thousand, two, ten and 17 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: twenty six six decades? Wow? How about that? It sounds 18 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: like more years? Yes? Absolutely, and uh, we decided to 19 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 1: you guys have certainly heard enough of me talking about 20 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: training camp and uh, since we have Brad here, who 21 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: can be our Cowboy historian. Oh, we're gonna talk Hall 22 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: of Fame, but like you can't. Well, no, you've got 23 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: a few, You've got one more decade than yeah, than 24 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: I do. We'll talk Hall of Fame with the Cowboys 25 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: having three guys going in uh this weekend after they 26 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: play in the Hall of Fame game on Thursday night, 27 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Jimmy John, Drew Pearson, Cliff Harris, and during Brad's time, 28 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: He's seen all three guys during their careers here. Although 29 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: I think Cliff and Drew beat you to the punch 30 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: they started before me. But I did get to broadcast 31 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: both of their some of both of their games, so 32 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: I did. I did have that provident. Of course, have 33 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: known them right really wealth for decades, and Brad's gonna 34 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: be fortunate enough too. After the Cowboys game Thursday night 35 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: against the Pittsburgh Steelers to remain in Canton, Ohio for 36 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: all the festivities, including the Yellow Jacket presentation, the Saturday 37 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: Sunday inductions of all three guys, and maybe best of all, 38 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: the post induction parties. You know, I know I'll be 39 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: at Drew's okay, and the Cowboys are having a reception 40 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: for all three of them on Saturday afternoon before the induction. 41 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: That'll be special because it'll be all Cowboys. People who 42 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: will be there, people who have been affiliated with all 43 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: three of those guys at various times throughout their ten years. 44 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: And so I was really honored to be invited to that. 45 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: And then yeah, then then Drew Drews had come to 46 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: the party, so you oh, yeah, who am I to say? 47 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: Who am I to be rude and say? No? So 48 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: I yea. I will probably be a little bleary eyed 49 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: Monday morning catching the flight out of Cleveland, and I 50 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: won't care. But the pro he is, he'll be ready 51 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: to go on next week. So the Cowboy party, that'll 52 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: be pretty neat because normally when Cowboys are inducted, So 53 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: there's so many Cowboy players in the Pro Football Hall 54 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: of Fame, a lot of them show up for the induction. 55 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: I mean they show up some of them yearly, since 56 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: they they're all part of it. And that'll be a 57 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: nice walk down memory lane too. You would think that 58 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: there would be a lot of the players who played 59 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: for Jimmy who will be there. I mean, I believe 60 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: Fox is televising the game Thursday night, So Troy Aikman 61 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: will be there surely, since he's Jimmy's presenter, he will 62 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: obviously stay for the ceremony. All of those guys that 63 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: we covered who played for Jimmy will almost certainly be 64 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: there for the ceremony because it's right before the ceremony. Yeah, 65 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: and then the guys who played with the Cliff and 66 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: Drew m that you know again, they will be there. 67 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: You would think as many of you know that Roger 68 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: Staubuck will be there, and you know that Rayphield right 69 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: will be there, and some of them are getting up 70 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: a little bit and hard to travel, don't don't travel 71 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: quite as well. I know Bob Lilly used to go 72 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: all the time, and I hope that he goes. And 73 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: some of the other ones, you just don't know because 74 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: they are some of them at an age where Tramp 75 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: he's get a little bit tougher. But but yeah, you 76 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: do hope to see an awful lot of them there. Absolutely, 77 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: So your thoughts on each of the three guys that 78 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: finally well two of them finally get in. I thought 79 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: that Drew and Cliff long overdue. Wasn't sure where everybody 80 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: would think about Jimmy was only five years with the Cowboys, 81 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: but then coached in the letter five years in the 82 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: NFL with Miami, right, and so his was I wasn't 83 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: sure if longevity meant enough, but I think his success 84 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: with the Cowboys and how he turned around the organization 85 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: when it was really floundering, having losing seasons in eighty six, 86 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: eighty seven, eighty eight before he got here in eighty nine, 87 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: and prior to that, they had winning seasons all the 88 00:05:54,560 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: way from nineteen what sixty six through eighty eight seventy four. 89 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: Might now they had it, they were They didn't make 90 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: that right because that was my first year. Yeah, okay, yeah, 91 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: you know the way that that I always try to 92 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: relate to that question, Mick is um, can you tell 93 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: the story of the NFL without this person? And if 94 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: the answer is no, whatever your opinion of who they 95 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: were or how they played or coach or whatever, if 96 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: you can't tell the story of the league without him, 97 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: then they have to be in the Hall of Fame. 98 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: So to address Jimmy's short tenure, there's no way to 99 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: tell the story of the NFL in the late twentieth 100 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 1: century without Jimmy Johnson because he did what you said. 101 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: He was at at the forefront of taking that team 102 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: that some of it was on Tom Landry's last team 103 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: and eight when they were three and thirteen, that's still 104 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: the worst Cowboys team I've ever seen, and they and 105 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: they had to turn the roster over completely. Now, the 106 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: interesting thing to me always is that the core of 107 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: the offensive line that won the Super Bowls, Nate Newton, 108 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: Kevin Gogan, Mark two and A. Those guys were all 109 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: starting at eighty eight, right. They were all the ones 110 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: that all the writers said were the worst offensive line 111 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: in the history of football. Same guys were starting in 112 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: ninety one, two three, They you know, they changed out 113 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: the other couple of pieces, but Jimmy essentially orchestrated. And 114 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: it's really the same reason Jerry Jones is in the 115 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. You cannot tell the story of the 116 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: NFL without the prominent place that Jerry Jones holds. And 117 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: so you can't tell the story the NFL in that 118 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: period of time without Jimmy Johnson. I don't think they're Frankly, 119 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: anything that Jimmy did with the Dolphins that got him 120 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame it's all what he did 121 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: with the Cowboys, although the Dolphins can certainly claim him 122 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: if they want, because you're right, he was their head 123 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: coach for a while, but he didn't have anything approaching 124 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: the success that he did in Dallas. But you can't 125 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: tell that story without him. And so two Super Bowls. 126 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: Being the architect of the team that went to a 127 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: championship game and won a third Super Bowl, I think 128 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: that certainly merits his spot. I thought Drew was the 129 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: one whose oversight was most egregious. We get two hung 130 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: up on statistics. This is not a sport to be 131 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: measured just by statistics or analytics. It's got its place. 132 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: But you know, if you just look at the raw 133 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: numbers that you would look at Drew and say he 134 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: didn't do anything, But then put it in context and 135 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: look at how was the game being played when he 136 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: played And until his induction. Until his election, Drew was 137 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: the only member of the Team of the Decade of 138 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: the seventies who was not in the Hall of Fame. Now, 139 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: normally players who are elected to the Team of the 140 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: Decade that they are pretty much shoe ins for the 141 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. And so why Drew was not in 142 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame until being voted in this year 143 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: still escapes me. And he was an absolutely essential part 144 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: of the offense of the early seventies that Roger Staubach 145 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: captained and on and on oversight excuse me, to me 146 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: was the most egregious. Now, in Cliff's case, it's harder 147 00:09:53,960 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: because we still try to quantify play by statistics, and 148 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: so how do you quantify a safety. You can't take 149 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: into account the scheme that was being played, you can't 150 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: take into account. So they go by what do they 151 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: go by? Interceptions? Well, that's completely unfair for a safety. 152 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: And I think that safety is one of those positions 153 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: and it is true today Darren Woodson is struggling with 154 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: the effects of it. The John Lynch was Lynch elected? 155 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: Is he going in? Yes? Okay, so I think he. 156 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. But 157 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: how do you determine how do you tell ten years 158 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: down the road, how do you tell John Lynch from 159 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: Steve Atwater which one of them deserves to be in 160 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: More there are some say Troy Polamalo is going in. Well, 161 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: if you watched, if you just watch the games, you 162 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: know that Troy Polamalu deserves to be in. Ed Reid 163 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: went in a year or two ago. Well not last year, 164 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: but okay, well, he deserves to be if you watch 165 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: the games watched those helped them win a championship. Edwyd 166 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: deserves to be in. Well, okay, but now that when 167 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: Cliff Harris played, there's not so many people who watch 168 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: the games who are around doing the voting anymore. And 169 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: you're now, as is the case Withdrew Pearson, you are 170 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: somewhat comparing apples and oranges because of the style that 171 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: was different. So you had to understand the uniqueness of 172 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: the Tom Landry defense, the role that Cliff and his 173 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: presenter Charlie Waters played in orchestrating that defense and flouting 174 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: it from time to time. The best stories are the 175 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: ones that Cliff and Charlie and there there then position 176 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: coach Gene Stallings told about the times that they just 177 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: decided to do something other than what Tom Landry and 178 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: the defensive coordinator Ernie Stautner sent in called their own defenses. 179 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: They did, yeah, they did, and the games and most 180 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: of the time it worked, and sometimes it didn't. The 181 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: Super Bowl right against the Steelers where Charlie Waters ran 182 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: into the umpire and Frank o'harris went running for a touchdown. 183 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: Just hysterical story to hear Cliff and Charlie talk about 184 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: how Terry Bradshaw said he audible to run on that 185 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: play because he saw blitz, and Cliff and Charlie in 186 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: unkind terms would say, we didn't blitz, We weren't blitzing. 187 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: Bradshaw didn't all blitz when he saw it or didn't 188 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: see it. I just ran into the umpire. But they 189 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: would do things regularly to change the defense based on 190 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: what they thought worked. And that was I think for 191 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: a long time. And I was probably guilty of this 192 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: Cliff because he was such a ferocious tackler, and you 193 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: tackled live in practice, and anybody who played with Cliff 194 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: Harris and Randy White paid the price for it, right. 195 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: And so that's how Cliff developed a nickname Captain Crash, 196 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: not only for what he did in games, but for 197 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: how he tackled his teammates in practice. So because he 198 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: had that physicality and that reputation and practice, Cliff became 199 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: known as the physical one, and Charlie Waters became known 200 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: as as the cerebral one, but that that didn't give 201 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: enough credit to the physicality of Charlie's play or the 202 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: intellect that Cliff brought to the game. And so you know, 203 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: Cliff was just instrumental in all of those great Cowboys teams, 204 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: and I'm very happy for him played in all five 205 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: of those Super Bowls during Landry's coaching career. So yeah, 206 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: and I think the point Brad makes is too many times, 207 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: the only way some voters can quantify voting for a 208 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: guy into the Hall of Fame as they look at 209 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: sticks and as he said, and I've always said that 210 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: our job for the Hall of Fame is to protect 211 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: the stories that must live into posterity after we're gone. 212 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: At some point we won't be here to tell those stories. 213 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: Other people won't be here to tell the stories. But 214 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame can save the stories of those 215 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: three guys. I'm a big believer in I've been on 216 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: the board of Trustees in the Selection committee of the 217 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: Texas Sports Hall of Fame for a long time. I'm 218 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: a big believer that Halls of Fame exists primarily for 219 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: that reason, so that fifty years from now, when nobody 220 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: who saw these people participate are around to attest to 221 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: what they did, their exploits, their leadership, their talent will 222 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: live on by anybody who can walk into the Hall 223 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: of Fame in Canton, Ohio. They have the technology to 224 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: use all kinds of different television calls or radio calls, 225 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: and different kinds of film, and it's a great experience. 226 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: I love going back. You know, we usually only get 227 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: to go back because our job is out here, Thank goodness, 228 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: when they have an opportunity to play in the Hall 229 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: of Fame game or and or if someone special to 230 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: the organization is being inducted, and you and I have 231 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: both been fortunate enough to be at a number of those. 232 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: And whenever you go to that and you get a 233 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: chance to walk through the hall and you see the 234 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: exhibits and the bust room is my absolute favorite, and 235 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: just walk through and relive the experience of knowing those 236 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: guys and a lot of them we knew, and not 237 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: just guys who were with the Cowboys, guys who are 238 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: around the league. When you've been around a while, and 239 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: you and I both have, then you get to know 240 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: people and and you get to relive that this flood 241 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: of memories that comes right rushing back by just looking 242 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: at their at their bust. And so it's a great 243 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: experience and for anybody who's a football fan, I urge 244 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: them to take advantage of it if the opportunity, if 245 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: you can, and go, and I'll give you a great 246 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: example of what Brad's talking about about preserving those stories. 247 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: I had the opportunity several years ago to go to 248 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: the Olympic Hall of Fame ooh in Switzerland, ooh, and 249 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: one of the net and this was okay, you win. 250 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: I can't top that. Maybe twenty years ago. This was 251 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: before technology really boomed. Right. Well, one of the neat 252 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: things in that Hall of Fame is with your admission, 253 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: they gave you two tickets somehow and you could go 254 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: down into the film room and call up different events. 255 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: Oh man, all right. So I knew I know the 256 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: story of Bob Hayes right the sixty four Olympics before 257 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: he came to the Cowboys winning the hundred meter dash, 258 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: but I'd never seen it. I was twelve maybe at 259 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: that time. I'm sure I watched it, but didn't remember it. 260 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: So one of my tickets I used was to watch 261 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: Bob Hayes in the hundred and it was astounding how 262 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: he after about sixty yards for sixty meters to the end, 263 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: he kept pulling away. He was leaving everybody behind to win. 264 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: And I'm looking at this going, oh my gosh. Right, 265 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: And the key thing when I was in that Hall 266 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: of Fame, in that film room is you could look 267 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: over other people's shoul and see what they picked, and 268 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: you could watch other events and you picked the event 269 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: and the language right of the broadcast. And so you know, 270 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: I saw some events that it was in a foreign language. 271 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: I had no idea what they're saying, but I remember, 272 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: you know, maybe the event. So yeah, that's what you're 273 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: in now. What the Pro Football Hall of Fames doing 274 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: is they've upgated, upgraded their technology to the point, well 275 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: you can watch guys careers, highlights of their careers when 276 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: you go in those rooms, and it's awfully, awfully special, 277 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 1: you know, and the and the unique thing think about 278 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: the how. And I don't know if this has ever 279 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: happened for the Cowboys, and not just the Cowboys, maybe 280 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: the NFL to have two guys going into the Hall 281 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: of Fame the same year that we're not drafted. About 282 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 1: that they were undrafted rookies who made the team and 283 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: back then think about it, I will if I remember correctly, 284 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: both got drafted when they were seventeen rounds. Still go both. 285 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: We both were signed and they used Not only did 286 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: they have that many players chosen while they were being 287 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: passed over, but in those days the Cowboys was not 288 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: unusual for them to bring a hundred rookies unlimited right. 289 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: You could do whatever you wanted, and they would go 290 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: through a two week camp where they hit before the 291 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: veterans came in, and you had to when when Cliff 292 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: Harris survives that, when Drew Pearson survives all that they 293 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: didn't have four or five guys to beat out, they 294 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: had thirty at their position. Oh, I remember, and I 295 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: can't remember it was Drew telling me the story or Cliff, 296 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: But when they signed their free agent contract of the rookie, 297 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: they were told they were the number one guy at 298 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: that position. And then they show up just like Brad said, 299 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, there's thirty other wide receivers 300 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: or thirty other safeties that they got to beat out 301 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: to make the team. And by the way, Drew it, 302 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: Drew his hysterical tell him the story about how his 303 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: UH bonus. Oh it was. It was one hundred and 304 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: fifty dollars. And he told his wife he got seventy five. Yeah, 305 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: because he wanted to use he wanted to use the 306 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: seventy five to go back to the Dorman party with 307 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: his teammates at at at Tulsa. Yeah, and it was 308 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy five. So they basically paid in 309 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: cash too. And he'll tell the other part of the 310 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: story was he said that when he drove to the 311 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: hotel where the Cowboys scout was after the draft when 312 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: they signed him, he barely had enough gas in his 313 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: car to get to the get to the hotel. So 314 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: he had to spend some of that money on gas 315 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: to make sure he could get back. Uh yeah, and 316 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: he was a newly married guy and uh yeah. And 317 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: but they bird dogged him. You know, he only played 318 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: two years of wide receiver, I believe at Tulsa because 319 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: he got there as a quarterback. As a matter of fact, 320 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: he was the quarterback in high school they took over. 321 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: Uh it was in South River, New Jersey for Joeimen 322 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: at that time, right, And he would call him Joey too, 323 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: by the way, because that's what he was and they were. 324 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: They were also the double play combination in baseball, Theisemen 325 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: at the second and at short and Pierson at second. 326 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: So uh so there they were, and they were starting 327 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: guards on the basketball team together. And at least Drew 328 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: was at Tulsa. People heard of Tulsa, who had heard 329 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: of Wachita Baptist. There are people coming for Cliff's induction 330 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: from Washata, who, um, we'll never get another opportunity or 331 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: reason to go to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. 332 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: And uh, it's amazing that, you know. And you look 333 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: at the career that he had and you say, why 334 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: did Arkansas not recruit him? They were a power in 335 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: the Southwest Conference? Right, and they didn't. He played at 336 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: Wachtab Baptist and he was he was a quarterback. Uh 337 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: and and even to how unique his story is when 338 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: he was coming out of high school in desark God 339 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: knows where that is in Arkansas, right, you'll find out now, 340 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: oh yeah, because he'll talk about it. And uh, he 341 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: was a he was a quarterback coming out and when 342 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: he first got there, you know, they finally said, okay, 343 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: we're gonna move you to safety. Um and and the 344 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: neat thing about it is. He didn't get a scholarship 345 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: to even watch it tab Baptist until a friend of 346 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: his father, who they played together at Watch It Toad 347 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 1: they're in their college days, recommended Cliff Harris to the 348 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: head coach, and he got a scholarship and now he's 349 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: going to the Profoil and now he's going in the 350 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame with by the way, he 351 00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: helped construct a new stadium for watching tab Baptist that 352 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: has his name on it. And I had the opportunity 353 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: several years ago, probably five six something like that, we 354 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: did a legends story on Cliff for the Dallas Cowboys 355 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: for TV, and we drove to is It Arcadelphia Arhikadelphi, 356 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: Coladelphia and interviewed Cliff in the new press box at 357 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: the stadium, right, and the folks there provided us pictures 358 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: of Cliff driving the tractor that pulled down the last 359 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: portion of the old stadium. But it was so neat 360 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: for him to go on the field and say, yeah, 361 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: right here, I did this or this happened right and yeah, 362 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons small college football at 363 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: that time that he's done the award for Small College 364 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: Player of the Year, which is a really neat award 365 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: because some of those guys that they've selected have actually 366 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: made it into the NFL and it made it and 367 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: done very well. And the fact that they could not 368 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: have an induction last year because of COVID, right, means 369 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: that there are there ten of them going in Saturday 370 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: from the class of twenty or is it more well, 371 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: there was twenty nominees and I think they've picked ten. 372 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: I think that's right. And then and then Drew is 373 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: in the class that will go in Sunday night from 374 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: the class of twenty one. But because there are so many, 375 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: they're being limited to like six minutes, right, And Drew 376 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: got in as the loan nominee by the Senior committee, 377 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: but they were going to make up for the seniors 378 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: that hadn't made it the year before, but then they 379 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: had to push the induction back. So yeah, their stories 380 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: are so unique that they got here. And really, Drew 381 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: will tell you a story. You know, he made the 382 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: team in nineteen seventy three as a rookie because special teams, 383 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: because he was considered second third team wide receiver at 384 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: the time until some guy got hurt and he got 385 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: a chance to start. And even Cliff Atto Stowe is 386 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: the guy. Yes, and Drew Will credits Otto Stowe with 387 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: being the one who taught him how to run routes 388 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: and play pro football right. And then it was Auto 389 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: Stow who got hurt, whose job Drew took and never 390 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: gave it up. And then Cliff his rookie year in 391 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, he had earned a starting job, and then 392 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: he had military service duty. Well, the people today don't 393 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: remember or acknowledge this, but I was in the same 394 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: exact spot in that same year where you, if you 395 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: were fortunate, you got into a National Guard or Army 396 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: reserve unit so that you didn't go immediately overseas to 397 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: combat in Vietnam. And so Cliff was one of a 398 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: number of those players who had to They had to 399 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: go to two weeks bivouac, two weeks training during the summer. 400 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: They had to make a meeting one weekend a month. 401 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: You know, they don't care that the Eagles game is 402 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: coming up. You're you gotta go. And so he'd made 403 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: the team and then he had to and then he 404 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: had military duty for a while. He handed up with 405 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: only five starts in eleven games that year, and he 406 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: will profess that when he had to do his military duty, 407 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: that gave Charlie Waters a chance to get on the field, 408 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: that's his story, and played right. Uh, and then they 409 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: both earned starting jobs after that. But yeah, he you 410 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: know what, nineteen seventy one, I was in the same 411 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: boat as you were because they they got rid of 412 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 1: all the all the exceptions. College deferment went away, and 413 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: I ended up in ROTC for two years. But yeah, 414 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: that was a real thing, and you were lucky. You 415 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: were lucky to get an ROTC because they were just 416 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: stands for a Reserve Officer Training Corps, right, And I 417 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,719 Speaker 1: wasn't a very good trainer. I gaining you were training 418 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: to be an officer, and I was the lowest rank possible. 419 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: I was an eleven bravo. I was what they call 420 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: a grunt, an infantry soldier. I think my induction class 421 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: was the last one they were sending people to Vietnam 422 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: before the deal got called off in I want to 423 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: say it was February of nineteen seventy three. I saw 424 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: the thing come over the ticker tape at the newspaper. 425 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: Missed it by that manche got it. But anyway, that's 426 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: how those guys careers began, and Jimmy, you know, Jimmy coached. 427 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: You know. Everybody thinks, well, he was a coach here 428 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: with the Dallas Cowboys those five years. But I went 429 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: back and looked, and he spent twenty I want to 430 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: say it was twenty five years coaching before he got 431 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: the Cowboys, and it was small college high school at 432 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: one point before he sort of broke through. Twenty four years. 433 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: It was, and he coached from nineteen sixty five to 434 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight before he got the Cowboys job. But 435 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: check your math. Did was he ever anywhere longer than 436 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: five years? No? In his life, he has never held 437 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: a full time job. You can't count his Fox job 438 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: because he does. He flies in one or two days 439 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: a week in the non pandemic. And he's never held 440 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: a job in his life. It's part of his story. 441 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: A full time job longer than five years. None of 442 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: the high school jobs, none of the college jobs, assistants, 443 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: defensive coordinators that I was he at Iowas. I always 444 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: stayed Pittsburghsburgh. He did Oklahoma, Arkansas, and then he got 445 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: the head coaching job at Oklahoma, Oklahoma State five years, 446 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: five years, and then he went to Miami how long 447 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: five years, and then he came to Dallas. How long 448 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: five years? And then he went to the Miami Dolphin. 449 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: It was only four yeah, yeah, and then they got 450 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: blown out in the playoffs. And when he went to Miami, 451 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: he had to deal with something that he didn't have 452 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: to deal with in Dallas, which was free agency, right 453 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: and the beginnings of the salary cap. They didn't have 454 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: any of that, right. But that's just that's not being critical, 455 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: that's just part of Jimmy's And he met Miami Dolphins, 456 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: not the university, that's right. He and and and he 457 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: he um. Jimmy uh grew restless, uh going into the 458 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: five year period wherever he went, and that's why he 459 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: moved all the time. But yeah, he had a kind 460 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,239 Speaker 1: of a not a typical college resume. I mean, look 461 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: at Dave Campo's resume as a matter of fact, a 462 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: matter of fact, there was one job left off because 463 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: he had accepted a job as a one of them 464 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: what do they call the intern, the graduate assistant coaches 465 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: at in college in college at Clemson. And he got there. 466 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: Frank Howard, He's got great Frank Howards, I got great 467 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: Frank Howard stories from my first newspaper job. But yeah, 468 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: Frank Howard was the head coach, and then he was 469 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: there in the off season and before the next semester 470 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: started he got the offer to come back, and I 471 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: can't remember it was to Oklahoma or Arkansas. And he 472 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: came back and and and so he never coached really 473 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: a season at Clemson, but had been there. Uh. Yeah, 474 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: he tells some great story Frank Howard's stories, and boy, 475 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: what a Now there is a guy character all lord. 476 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: I remember doing interviews with him in his office when 477 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: he had become the ad and he had a spit 478 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: tune on the side of his desk and that was 479 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: part of his deal when he was doing an interview 480 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: with you. But yeah, so Jimmy, Jimmy paid his dues 481 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: before he got the breakthrough. And I remember when he 482 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: got the job at Oklahoma State. I was doing Big 483 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: eight Skyrider tours and that's when I first met him, 484 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: and I said, you know what, this guy's a little different. 485 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: You know the thing that's interesting to me about Jimmy. 486 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: I mean, all of these, all of the coaches the 487 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: Cowboys have had, have been really good football minds and 488 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: in varying degrees and differing ways, really good instructors. Jimmy, 489 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: of course, had a psychology degree. And I'm not sure 490 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: as much as Bill Parcel's loved to push buttons, and 491 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: as much as Tom Landry would admit that he sent 492 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: messages to his players through the media, I don't think 493 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: that there's ever been anyone who was able to and 494 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: I'll say this word advisedly and mean it in a 495 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: positive way. I don't think there's ever been anyone who 496 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: was able to manipulate his people psychologically like Jimmy Wasn't 497 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: that Jimmy didn't have as much football expertise as anyone else. 498 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: Clearly he did. What a great resume, he had, great 499 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: organizational skills he had, and he's the first one to 500 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: say it, he's a phenomenal life for evaluating talent. But 501 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: Jimmy really knew how to get players. I've never seen 502 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: anyone have the talent that Jimmy did. For saying to 503 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: his players on Monday, this is this is our theme 504 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: this week. He would quickly dissect the game they had 505 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: just played, and he would establish the theme of the week. 506 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: Tuesday was the player's day off, and by the time 507 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: we got a chance to talk to him on Wednesday, 508 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: they were all parroting that line, right, And that's a 509 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: great that's a sign of a really artful coach. And 510 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: if he needed to emphasize that message on Tuesday during 511 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: his press conference weekly press conference, he would emphasize that 512 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: through the media and if he needed those guys to 513 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: know that he was poed going into Wednesday's practice. You 514 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: remember the time he walked out of the press conference. 515 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: He just got mad at a question. He had already 516 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: determined he was mad, right, and that he was going 517 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: to walk out like a basketball coach looking for the 518 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: opportunity to get a technical, right, And he walked out 519 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: of the press conference because he wanted to send a 520 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: message to the guys that hey, we are gonna be 521 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: down to business on the next day. I can't tell 522 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: you how many times he did. At that time, they 523 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: got beat by the Giants really bad up in the Meadowlands, 524 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: and he just totally ignored the game and started complaining 525 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: about the officiating, like since my daddy blew up a football, 526 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: that was a penalty, right, And he would go on 527 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: and on and he would take the attention away from 528 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: how bad they were in nineteen eighty nine. Uh, I 529 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: could tell you in Uh, I believe it was. It 530 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: was either eighty nine or no, it was eighty nine. 531 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: And back then the newspaper would give us a week 532 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: off because Treny camp would go six weeks. Right. So 533 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: my family came down and we were in San Diego 534 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: before a preseason game, right, and get in the elevator 535 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: and the door opens and Jimmy gets in, right. So 536 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: remember we were giving him a hard time that that fresh, 537 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: that rookie year, and this was I saw it had 538 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: been ninety that's right. So anyway, he uh, he looked 539 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: I introduced him, introduced my wife and our daughter, and 540 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: and he looks at our daughters, probably ten eleven, and 541 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, he goes, you need to talk to 542 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: your daddy because he's pretty hard on me. But that 543 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: was Jimmy, right, Yeah, So when did she U? Yeah, no, 544 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: she was she was like, uh were you? Yeah? Right, 545 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: but you know that's that was him. And uh but 546 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: you know what, after that initial part, you got to 547 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 1: understand him, and he was he would be then very 548 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: honest with us, uh even tell us everything. But he 549 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: was honest. It was easy to see the skills that 550 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: Jerry saw when he Jerry knew obviously when he bought 551 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: the team that he was gonna hire Jimmy. And it's 552 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: easy to see the organizational skills, the talent evaluating skills, 553 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: and the and the personnel handling skills that Jimmy had 554 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: that made him successful so quickly. Yeah. Uh. And one 555 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,879 Speaker 1: last story, So before they drafted Troy Aikman, they were 556 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,720 Speaker 1: acting like, well, we don't know if we because Jerry 557 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: was trying to. They were trying to, you know, make 558 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: sure that he didn't get paid too much. Right, we 559 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: got another guy we can take at the first pick. 560 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: You know. It was the Tony manderis the offensive lineman 561 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: that went to Green Bay and flamed out and afterward 562 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: and he was playing he was playing poker, right, poker 563 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: faced the whole thing. So after the draft they took 564 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: Aikman and the actually before and then got him signed 565 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: before the draft, and I think a week or so 566 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: later we were in there. So we got to go 567 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: in his office like Monday, I think the beat writers 568 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: and interview them. When we got in there and he 569 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: got presented by I think it was Edward or a 570 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: Decca Cards like to say, okay, you were playing poker 571 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: with us, right, Well, he proudly kept that Decca cards 572 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: in the front of his desk the whole time he 573 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: was there. Yeah, that was cry to ride. Well, I'll 574 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: tell you what, Brad, thanks for Johnny. You bet we 575 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: could have done this for two hours, probably telling stories 576 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: about these guys. But you know what, their stories will 577 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: be told the weekend they get inducted this Saturday and 578 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: Sunday in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, And I 579 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: would think that's got to be must set without doubt. 580 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,479 Speaker 1: And I'm we haven't been told, and I don't think 581 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: the club as of midday on Monday, has even been 582 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: told by the NFL what the game day protocols will be, 583 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: because one of the highlights every year is seeing both 584 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: teams who are playing in the game line up in 585 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: uniform during pregame, line up on the field, and the 586 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: new Hall of Famers come paraded out, usually in Hawaiian shirts, 587 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: to acknowledge both teams, and of course, in the case 588 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: of Jimmy and Drew and Cliff, one of the teams 589 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: will be the Cowboys. Troy Palamalu and I guess Alan 590 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: Fanica and a couple others would be recognized by the state. 591 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if that'll happen because of the COVID 592 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: protocols that are still going on the field, who can 593 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: be on the field, who can be in contact with whom, 594 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: and but I do know that at because we've both 595 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: been at enough of them. When you experience an induction ceremony, 596 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: there are a lot of Hall of famers who come 597 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: back and they sit up on the stage. I'm sure 598 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: they'll be distanced. I'm sure they'll be socially distanced, but 599 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: a lot of them wear their gold jackets. Yeah, and 600 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: you look up and see decades upon decades upon decades 601 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: of the greatest that Pro football has had to offer. 602 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: Now they're all sitting here and they're paying tribute to 603 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: these people who are going in and to sit there 604 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: in that audience and here Jimmy Johnson, and here Cliff Harris, 605 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: and here Drew Pearson tell their stories and relive their 606 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: careers for those of us who have followed this franchise 607 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: for a while, that'll be a great throat. Well, you 608 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: enjoy that. And I'm just telling everybody else out there, 609 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: if going to the Pro Football Hall of Fame weekend 610 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: induction is a bucket list. It's attainable. You can do it. 611 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: It's not too expensive, you can get there, and there's 612 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: places to stay. You don't have to stay in Canton. 613 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: You can stay in Cleveland, Akron. But it's an untatable deal. 614 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: So I think everybody needs to do that, especially if 615 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: you've never been through the Pro Football Hall of Fame 616 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: in Canton. For Brad Shama, Mickey Spagno, this was Mick 617 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: Shots Live from Oxnard, California. This has been a production 618 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football 619 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:36,479 Speaker 1: Club