Speaker 1: Welcome to del Riser and then to go sur Prid
Speaker 1: has really been created to some drulling shops a gun. Tonight,
Speaker 1: this is the Sixers History Podcast hosted by Pro Hoops
Speaker 1: Histories Curtis Harris, Going up but at basket Now slide
Speaker 1: back into time Sixers STYT with today's episode. Welcome back,
Speaker 1: everyone to another episode of the Sixers History Pod with
Speaker 1: your host Curtis Harris. And today we're discussing the career
Speaker 1: of the late Larry Costello, who played for the Philadelphia
Speaker 1: seventy Sixers, the Syracuse Nationals, and the Philadelphia Warriors. And
Speaker 1: we're going to discuss Costello's playing career as well as
Speaker 1: his coaching career with Tim Roy, who is the current
Speaker 1: radio play by play announcer for the Golden State Warriors
Speaker 1: and has actually help that job now for I think
Speaker 1: twenty two years. So Tim's got that down pat and
Speaker 1: he's a great talker as you'll hear in the pod,
Speaker 1: and really just really loves basketball history. So I was
Speaker 1: really happy to get him on for this podcast. But
Speaker 1: as Tim will explain in just a moment, he came
Speaker 1: to know Larry Costello back in the nineteen eighties when
Speaker 1: Tim was working in Utica, New York, and Costello was
Speaker 1: the coach of Utica College at that point. So through
Speaker 1: his time knowing Costello from that point forward, Tim got
Speaker 1: to know a lot about him. And we'll talk about
Speaker 1: Larry's career as a player with the as I mentioned
Speaker 1: the Nats, Warriors and seventy six Ers, where he was
Speaker 1: a six time All Star during his playing career and
Speaker 1: was a member of the title team we had here
Speaker 1: in Philly back in nineteen sixty seven. And then after
Speaker 1: his playing career was finished, Costello eventually coached in college
Speaker 1: bad about a decade long stint as coach of the
Speaker 1: Milwaukee Bucks in the NBA and took the Bucks from
Speaker 1: expansion team in nineteen sixty nine to NBA champions by
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one. So this is a great conversation with Tim.
Speaker 1: As I said, he loves basketball history, really loves Larry Costello,
Speaker 1: so he was really pumped to come on and talk
Speaker 1: about talk about his friend, really and all that he
Speaker 1: learned from Costello and helped share his career and his
Speaker 1: accomplishments with you all. So we'll start the podcast off
Speaker 1: with Tim telling us just how he ran across Costello
Speaker 1: for the first time back in the eighties, and then
Speaker 1: we'll just go from there. Learn more about the career
Speaker 1: of All Star NBA champion coaching player Larry Costello. I
Speaker 1: had gone to a small school in up state in
Speaker 1: New York called Jutica College, and it was a small
Speaker 1: Division three school. I was much more I went. I
Speaker 1: visited Syracuse and Boston University because I wanted to be
Speaker 1: a sportscaster. So I knew it's why I wanted to
Speaker 1: do since I was a little kid. And so I
Speaker 1: went up there and and you know, those schools were
Speaker 1: way too big for me. So the guy at Syracy said, hey,
Speaker 1: you're way back home, stop off in Utica and check
Speaker 1: it out. They got a brand new radio station. It's
Speaker 1: a smaller school, maybe more your style and the whole bit.
Speaker 1: So I went there, enjoyed it. Got a job with
Speaker 1: the local radio station, Treum when I was at the
Speaker 1: end of my sophomore year, and Rise we started that year.
Speaker 1: Larry Costello got hired to be the head basketball coach
Speaker 1: and helped take the program to Division one. The school
Speaker 1: president was an old friend of Larry's and he wanted
Speaker 1: to take the program to Division one. So we called Larry,
Speaker 1: can you help me do this? Larry said, sure, I
Speaker 1: got nothing going on. So he came up and was
Speaker 1: the head coach there from nineteen well in the Division
Speaker 1: one in nineteen eighty one through nineteen eighty seven. And
Speaker 1: and so that's how I met him. I did his
Speaker 1: games and broadcasts games on a local commercial station, and
Speaker 1: you know, learned a ton of basketball just listening to
Speaker 1: him talk and you know, having him point out different
Speaker 1: things to me. And I learned a lot about offensive basketball.
Speaker 1: I learned that there's there's a million ways to get
Speaker 1: somebody a wide open shot. And I learned about how
Speaker 1: to use you know, play as misdirection. You know, how
Speaker 1: it looks like it's gonna be that they want to
Speaker 1: do one thing, but you end up getting another thing.
Speaker 1: And and so uh. He was a real task master
Speaker 1: master with his team. But he really understood offensive basketball
Speaker 1: in a way that that not many people could. And
Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways. Though his record
Speaker 1: isn't great when he was in college, I think if
Speaker 1: he saw the talent there and saw what he was
Speaker 1: able to do in certain games to keep that talent,
Speaker 1: you know, against a vastly securitior opponent in the game.
Speaker 1: And um so to me, he was remarkable. He was.
Speaker 1: I think he was a little underrated as a coach
Speaker 1: because he was a you know, he was a he
Speaker 1: was a tough guy. You know, you didn't give him
Speaker 1: any any lip or anything like that. He he was
Speaker 1: you know, he was old school and you know from
Speaker 1: his hair cut all the way down yep, and you know,
Speaker 1: you know, and so so uh you know he And
Speaker 1: but I think if you go back and I think
Speaker 1: of a lot of players who played for him in
Speaker 1: the NBA, I think now with their you know years
Speaker 1: and looking back, I think they probably appreciate it more
Speaker 1: because of the fact that that he was constantly devising
Speaker 1: ways to help get them, you know, better shots and
Speaker 1: to make them a better team. So, after recalling Larry's
Speaker 1: coaching career, I asked him about, you know, what stories
Speaker 1: did Larry share about his playing days. I got some
Speaker 1: good stuff, starting with, uh, you know, the sixty seven
Speaker 1: seventy six ers Costello's time with the championship team, but
Speaker 1: also how Larry got into pro basketball and really did
Speaker 1: some just some you know, interesting fun stories from the
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties. You're not gonna get any more to
Speaker 1: the NBA because things have changed so much. Uh. It's
Speaker 1: not good, it's not bad. It's just different, different kinds
Speaker 1: of stories, different kind of style. He never initiated it.
Speaker 1: I had to try to prod him. And it might
Speaker 1: have been, you know, late night after a game over
Speaker 1: a frosty multi beverage um that uh, he might you know,
Speaker 1: start if I asked him questions, he would he more
Speaker 1: than not, he would answer them. And so when I
Speaker 1: asked her about that team, he said that Alexander had
Speaker 1: called him and said, hey, I wanted to come back.
Speaker 1: I needed to come back a little veteran guard this team.
Speaker 1: And so he, you know, he showed up. And Larry
Speaker 1: was always fanatical about being in shape and about being
Speaker 1: ready and and so he was ready to go, even
Speaker 1: though he had had some injuries throughout his career. And
Speaker 1: uh and and he said he loved he loved flavor
Speaker 1: Alexander because Anna was kind of like he was. Alexandon
Speaker 1: was a former marine and again another guy. I think
Speaker 1: that history doesn't give enough run. I think he was
Speaker 1: an unbelievable coach. Here the history of the Warriors, the
Speaker 1: two Warrior teams that got to the finals before seventy
Speaker 1: five were both coached by Alex Hammer. I mean, and
Speaker 1: it was you know, they brought him back and they
Speaker 1: got to the finals. So anyway, so Larry started to
Speaker 1: that team, and I remember one time I asked him,
Speaker 1: I said, I said, I know you got hurt. He
Speaker 1: what happened because so I tore him achilles tendor. I thought, wow,
Speaker 1: because I got back in time for the playoffs. He
Speaker 1: tore his achilles tended in the middle of the season
Speaker 1: and returned for the playoffs. They didn't play a lot,
Speaker 1: might you Okay, probably was now nowhere close to the
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, But when he got hurt, their record
Speaker 1: was forty four and four. Yep, think about that. Forty
Speaker 1: four and four. I mean, uh yeah, that team was loaded.
Speaker 1: And I think he was proud to be a part
Speaker 1: of that team. And I think if you had pushed
Speaker 1: him at the time, he h he was proud to
Speaker 1: be on a team that a lot of people for
Speaker 1: the longest time said was you know, the best team
Speaker 1: to the best individual one year team to play in
Speaker 1: the NBA. That's how people looked at it for a
Speaker 1: long long time. He was drafted by the Warriors, and uh,
Speaker 1: but you know, I think, I think under some parental pressure,
Speaker 1: he wasn't sure he wanted to be a pro basketball player.
Speaker 1: So his mom and wanted to go to some sort
Speaker 1: of a you know, get some sort of a trade
Speaker 1: here at college. So he went up to dental school
Speaker 1: and he was this is after Naggurate. So he's hanging
Speaker 1: out and he goes, I was going to dental school.
Speaker 1: He goes, but I kept finding myself in the gym.
Speaker 1: I kept finding myself playing basketball and taking shots and practicing,
Speaker 1: and he goes. And so you know, finally he got
Speaker 1: he called up at a Gali because he still want
Speaker 1: me because the camp had already started, and so galis, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: get out, get down here. So he reported the Philadelphia
Speaker 1: with the Warriors and started his career. Ended up being
Speaker 1: trade to Syracuse, which is why he had such a
Speaker 1: network of friends up there, because he played with the
Speaker 1: Nationals for a long time. And uh, and I remember
Speaker 1: Jean Shoe telling me once that, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of times, you know, the teams back then in the
Speaker 1: fifties would travel by train, and so uh, sometimes he goes.
Speaker 1: Occasionally we would be like, you know, waiting for the
Speaker 1: other team to home team to get there, and if
Speaker 1: Syracuse had played like Fort Wayne or somebody the night before,
Speaker 1: he says, the train would come in and the players
Speaker 1: would get there about five o'clock and he goes and
Speaker 1: because I looked at Larry, goes one night and here
Speaker 1: comes Larry. He looks like he's having about two hours sleep,
Speaker 1: and he's, you know, basically dragging his bag of locker
Speaker 1: room as, oh, I've got this to night because he
Speaker 1: just sees the tip with up because Larry's running me,
Speaker 1: ragging all of us going. So it was at an act.
Speaker 1: Did he just look tired, you know? Or you know,
Speaker 1: did he just turn I so, uh yeah. So he
Speaker 1: he had a thing and I remember there was I
Speaker 1: think this might have been with Syracuse that he scored
Speaker 1: I think thirty consecutive points without a miss. He had
Speaker 1: a night where he got really hot, he said, and
Speaker 1: didn't miss and just kept scoring and scoring and scoring.
Speaker 1: He was always a great foul shooter, so that they
Speaker 1: foul him. It was usually two points, because I think
Speaker 1: he led the league two or three times at three
Speaker 1: throw percentage. But one night he just couldn't miss, and
Speaker 1: he was one of the last guys early to suit
Speaker 1: the shoot the kind of set shot that they shot
Speaker 1: in the early days. He had that going. But he
Speaker 1: was so quick that he could pump pick you on
Speaker 1: that and get it get around you. He was always quick.
Speaker 1: But yeah, those were He talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: the travel and about how you know, guys were you know,
Speaker 1: the game was a lot tougher back then, and you know,
Speaker 1: he says, guys would knock you down, the referee look
Speaker 1: hit you and say we'll get up. So so they
Speaker 1: had to play a different style game back then. So
Speaker 1: despite all he accomplished, Larry was still a little reticent
Speaker 1: to have his college players know that he was an
Speaker 1: NBA All Star. So Tim talked about why Larry was
Speaker 1: so hesitant to reveal his All Star status. Six times
Speaker 1: he was an NBA All Star. Did also here Tim
Speaker 1: recall some stories from other Hall of famers discussing what
Speaker 1: respect they had for Larry as a player. Well, he didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't really mention the All Star games too much.
Speaker 1: Like I said, he was very really hard to get
Speaker 1: in to talk about, you know, his days in the NBA.
Speaker 1: He um, he really I think, you know, once he
Speaker 1: got the job there, I think he wanted the players
Speaker 1: at the college level to really focus in on him
Speaker 1: as their coach and not as his former NBA guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, usually if I got him
Speaker 1: in a moment where we were alone and there was
Speaker 1: no you know, maybe one or two other people around,
Speaker 1: and he would he would chat with us about that.
Speaker 1: But I do know that, uh, you know, when I
Speaker 1: when the All Star thing came up. I remember one
Speaker 1: conversation we had and you know, one of the guys
Speaker 1: that was one of the assistant coaches, I didn't know
Speaker 1: he made the All Star Game that that much. And
Speaker 1: he was, yeah, well, you know, because I had a
Speaker 1: few years while I was you know, doing it doing
Speaker 1: it right. And so I mean he was he was
Speaker 1: a really steady player, and like I said, he was
Speaker 1: very quick. He was a tenacious defender and a very
Speaker 1: very good shooter. But but he could do you know,
Speaker 1: a variety of other things. I think he is numbers
Speaker 1: on the rebounding and assist if I remember, and you
Speaker 1: get the page up, they're kind of tailed off. And
Speaker 1: you know, in his latter years and I think the
Speaker 1: injuries started to take a little bit of their toll.
Speaker 1: But but when he was healthy, he was a pretty
Speaker 1: solid rebounder and assist guy, and so to me, he
Speaker 1: was kind of like an all around player. And then
Speaker 1: if you go back to his college days, he was
Speaker 1: a very good college player and part of this college
Speaker 1: um tree, if you will, a legendary coach named Taps
Speaker 1: Gallagher started and coming out of that school. Cool at
Speaker 1: the time were three guys who ended up being NBA
Speaker 1: and ABA head coaches, Frank Layton, Larry Costello and hughby
Speaker 1: Brown and um and I remember, you know, won't get
Speaker 1: to the coaching part yet, but but to me, I
Speaker 1: remember talking to Tom Heinson about Larry Costello one time
Speaker 1: on my talk show and when I was working in
Speaker 1: upstate New York, and he went out of his way
Speaker 1: to give him praise as far as the talented player.
Speaker 1: He says, people don't know how good that guy was.
Speaker 1: And he goes, but he said he wouldn't you know,
Speaker 1: he would have been a guy that that you know,
Speaker 1: he felt would have fitted in on the Celtics because
Speaker 1: he would do things that you know, he could have scored.
Speaker 1: He goes, he goes, twenty and nine if he wanted
Speaker 1: every night, but he would make plays for other guys
Speaker 1: to try to help the team win. He goes he
Speaker 1: was all about trying to not only beat you physically,
Speaker 1: but beat you in in terms of the game. The
Speaker 1: respect that Oscar had for Larry was great enough. So
Speaker 1: Larry called him to come up and speak at his
Speaker 1: basketball camping up State New York, and Oscar came. Now,
Speaker 1: you know, Oscar doesn't do you know, a lot. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't see him on the banquet circuit and he's
Speaker 1: not doing a lot of that stuff. But but he
Speaker 1: flew into you know, Judica, New York, which is out
Speaker 1: a very big place, and showed up and I'm sure
Speaker 1: Larry compensated him, but it couldn't have been that much.
Speaker 1: Uh and and so, But that he came out of
Speaker 1: respect for Larry and the fact that he played against
Speaker 1: him and uh and was coached by him, and they
Speaker 1: want a championship together. That he came up and he
Speaker 1: you know, he did did my talk show, he did
Speaker 1: the local TV and I spoke to the campers, and
Speaker 1: you know, he was you know, he was very respectful
Speaker 1: of Larry, and I appreciated him. Well. Here at six
Speaker 1: or History, we never missed an opportunity to try to
Speaker 1: get some Wood Chamberlain stories. And fortunately for us, Larry
Speaker 1: Costello played with and against World Chamberlain, so we got
Speaker 1: some Wood Chamberlain stories. I basically I remember him telling
Speaker 1: me that Wilt could do whatever he wanted to do
Speaker 1: on the floor, and almost any given time he said that,
Speaker 1: you know, Russell would Russell would give him problems like
Speaker 1: Russell gave everybody problems. But but for the most part,
Speaker 1: he said, says, Will could do whatever he wanted. And
Speaker 1: he pointed to that year where you know, Will let
Speaker 1: the league and assists where he said, look, you know
Speaker 1: he went out and said I'm gonna legal league and
Speaker 1: assists and went out and just did it and helped
Speaker 1: the team because that's what they you know, they asked
Speaker 1: Hoxham asked him to do that, and you know he
Speaker 1: went out and average around and eight assist at night
Speaker 1: and they became a much better team than they won.
Speaker 1: And then he says, we'll put his mind to do it.
Speaker 1: And when he you know, when he did that, he
Speaker 1: says he was remarkable and he'd also, uh, he said,
Speaker 1: Will physically could have been a real, you know, nasty
Speaker 1: guy to a lot of players if he wanted to.
Speaker 1: He says that he says he saw will get his
Speaker 1: shot blocked at the rim a couple of times by guys.
Speaker 1: I mean not going to mention names because I think
Speaker 1: they're still alive, but uh, and then we'll go down
Speaker 1: the floor the other way and said, you know, I
Speaker 1: let you block that dunk because I would have broken
Speaker 1: your wrist by fall. True, and so next time think
Speaker 1: about that. You know, I'm paraphrasing. I'm not sure that
Speaker 1: was the exact language. Yeah, it's a little more culporful
Speaker 1: than that. But uh. But but he says, I, I
Speaker 1: know he did a couple of times because he didn't
Speaker 1: want to hurt the guy, you know, and so he
Speaker 1: let him block a shot. And then but he would
Speaker 1: let him know that I let you block that shot
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to break your arm. You're not
Speaker 1: kind of like, oh okay, he said one of the guys.
Speaker 1: Uh said, well, well he goes looks like it was
Speaker 1: thanks Pisa, you want walked away and was like, oh
Speaker 1: so yeah. He he was really impressed with Wilton and
Speaker 1: m and uh and like it. Like like I said,
Speaker 1: I said, he enjoyed playing with him, you know, in
Speaker 1: the back end of his career, that the last couple
Speaker 1: of years because he loved the fact that that Alex
Speaker 1: Hannum and Wills had a great understanding and it just
Speaker 1: made that team, you know, as devastating as it was.
Speaker 1: So as always here is Sixers history. When we have
Speaker 1: someone recalling an old friend, an old teammate, an old coach,
Speaker 1: we'd like to give that person an opportunity to summarize
Speaker 1: the influence, the impact, what meaning that person held for them.
Speaker 1: So here's Tim Roy providing for us his thoughts, his
Speaker 1: final summary, his final account of Larry Costello what he
Speaker 1: meant to him as a player, friend, basketball coach. Well,
Speaker 1: you don't the one other anecdote I'd love to get
Speaker 1: in if I can, Yeah, sure it is. I spoke
Speaker 1: to Hugh by Brown a few years ago when the
Speaker 1: Lawyers were in the finals, and I did an interview
Speaker 1: with him about the ABA and about you know, all
Speaker 1: the great times and stories they had, and then I
Speaker 1: finished it with a question about Larry. I said, look,
Speaker 1: you know I worked with Larry, and he went on
Speaker 1: about you know, just how you know Larry, you know,
Speaker 1: let him have that job and gave him a chance.
Speaker 1: He goes without Larry hiring me in Milwaukee to be
Speaker 1: his assistant, I would not have the career that I have,
Speaker 1: you know, it says he He hired me and and
Speaker 1: and trusted me, and he goes and I learned so
Speaker 1: much about coaching basketball, about you know, coaching men, about
Speaker 1: dealing with you know, other teams and opposition and scouting
Speaker 1: because they were he said, they were one of the
Speaker 1: first teams to really start filming and looking at film
Speaker 1: and things like that, and and um and so he said,
Speaker 1: in that way, he was kind of a little bit
Speaker 1: of ahead of ahead of the rest of the league.
Speaker 1: And uh and he said he just you know, it
Speaker 1: allowed hit him to grow to be the coach that
Speaker 1: he became. Um So, so that's one thing that you know,
Speaker 1: Larry was also you know giving back and doing some
Speaker 1: different you know things to help other guys you know,
Speaker 1: follow his bath. But for Larry, he was a gregacious guy,
Speaker 1: a tough guy. Um Uh. He was a guy that
Speaker 1: that was was hard nosed, but he did have he
Speaker 1: did have a compassionate side. And he was always willing
Speaker 1: to uh to listen to a good story. And I
Speaker 1: think personally and no talking ill of any of the
Speaker 1: folks that have gotten in the last few years. But
Speaker 1: I think when you look at his since it is
Speaker 1: a basketball Hall of Fame and not just an NBA
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, I think if you look at his
Speaker 1: body of work as a college player, as a pro
Speaker 1: player as you mentioned, six time All Star, and as
Speaker 1: a coach, even though his coaching career was not long,
Speaker 1: but he did have you know, his record with the
Speaker 1: Bucks was unbelievable, and you know, I think I think
Speaker 1: when you add all that up, I think, and I
Speaker 1: know he's been nominating the past, but I think he
Speaker 1: deserves another look. I think he you know, if you
Speaker 1: look at some of the clateria that has been used
Speaker 1: to get some players in there, I think, and we
Speaker 1: can kick a look at him as a whole. I
Speaker 1: think he did a lot of fastball. All right. That
Speaker 1: concludes another episode the Sixers History the podcast. I'd like
Speaker 1: to thank Tim Roy, who was a busy, busy man,
Speaker 1: for taking time out of his schedule to talk with
Speaker 1: us about Larry Costello, who is, when you get down
Speaker 1: to it, one of the best point guards in franchise history.
Speaker 1: So I'm very appreciative we were able to get someone
Speaker 1: who knew Larry was able to speak about him as
Speaker 1: a player, a coach, and really also as a person
Speaker 1: so we can learn as much about him as possible.
Speaker 1: So thanks to y'all for listening. See a background here
Speaker 1: real soon