WEBVTT - Money Talks 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.520 Welcome to game Plan, a show about our lives at work. 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.119 I'm Francesco Leavie, editor of the game Plan section at 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.720 Bloomberg dot com, and I'm Rebecca Greenfield, a reporter at Bloomberg, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:24.360 where I cover workplace culture. This week, we're talking about money, 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.080 how we make it, and what we do with it. Later, 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.480 we'll talk to Sally Crotcheck, co founder of la vest, 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.680 a service that helps women invest their money. But first, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.280 let's talk about our salaries. How much do you make? Becca, 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.839 I don't want to talk about that, whyever or not? 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:48.760 Because I don't know. We live in a society, man. Yeah, people, 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.880 people including myself, and I'm guilty of this. We don't 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.480 like talking about our salaries. It's like talking about politics 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.720 and religion. It's like if you bring it up with 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.800 somebody you don't know that, well, it's pretty likely that 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.360 somebody is going to get offended. And I just want 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.399 to avoid the uncomfortable situation. But that's just me to 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.600 see what some other people think. I decided to ask 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.039 some of our coworkers if they would tell me their salaries. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.720 Would you tell me your salary? Yeah? Really? Yeah? Why not? 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.039 What is it? It's WHOA, I can't believe you just 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.240 told me that. Would you tell me your salary? No? 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.200 Why not? It just seems taboo and like culturally unacceptable 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.839 to tell people your salary. Would you tell me your salary? Yeah? Okay? 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.640 What is it I make? I think employees should share 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.760 their salaries. I think it's a way for employees like 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:55.280 banned together and extract more money for their labor. Would 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.920 you tell me your salary? Yes? Okay? What is it? 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.640 Would you tell me your salary? It's not something that 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.520 I discussed often with strangers or even coworkers, but like 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.320 my close network of like friends and family, that would 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.400 be something that I would discuss with them. Probably not, 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.040 I'd be a little hesitant because I've been somewhere where 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.200 employees have shared, and then I've seemed like there was 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:27.400 like a tension almost. It makes people feel less valued 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.119 if they know someone else doing similar work is making more. 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.440 So I was surprised by how many people told me 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.880 what they make, But there were still some people who were, 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.200 like me, uncomfortable with sharing for what I thought were 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:49.320 some pretty legitimate reasons. And yet there have been arguments 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.680 right that salary transparency, which is sort of a buzzworthy 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:57.240 phrase these days, is great. If everybody knew what everybody 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.120 else made, there would be a lot more fairness and 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.639 parity between men and women, right and when you I think, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.680 especially with negotiating, which is something that's particularly hard for 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.720 women to do already, not having any information just makes 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.360 it a hard conversation. Even if you are making the 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.480 exact right amount of money, or more than your coworker, 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:19.960 you you might not assume that. And then, of course, 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.760 on the darkest end of this, if you're actually being 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.600 discriminated against for a variety of reasons and not being 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:30.240 paid just because you are a woman or minority, then 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.600 you might not You won't know that unless there is transparency, 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.040 and transparency has has helped people. So there is this 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:43.400 movement for more transparency which comes in a few different flavors. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.120 And there are companies now where everybody knows what everyone 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.760 else makes. Right. There's one very high profile example in 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.280 the company is called Buffer. What does Buffer do? They're 0:03:54.680 --> 0:04:00.600 a social media platform? Okay, and at first the most 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.920 extreme example because they post everyone's salary online, so it's 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.880 not just public within the organization, it's public to everybody 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.200 in the outside world. And they post the salaries and 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.080 then they have this calculator where they show kind of 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.800 how the salary where it comes from. So various factors 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.440 go into salaries, such as the cost of living of 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.320 a place, how many years experience someone has, what their 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.440 job title is, and that all makes the salary, and 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.200 that's all completely public. And they started this experiment some 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.599 time ago. Yeah, it's been a few years, you know. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.919 They did it for fairness in general, and and it 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.800 should close the wage gap. But they did a study 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.440 recently this year that they found that there was still 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.440 a wage gap, right because there were specific factors going 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.799 into each person's salary that was resulting in a gender 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.640 based wage gap. Yeah, things that they couldn't really control. 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:59.760 For example, they just happened to hire women for job 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.839 types that paid less. So an engineer will make more 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.880 than a community manager UM and women and senior roles 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.160 and community management, but that makes less than a man 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.680 and a senior role in engineering, And knowing where the 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.240 salaries come from doesn't change that, sure, but it would 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.159 be useful to know if you were a woman and 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.920 engineering and you were making less than So that wasn't happening, 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.719 But that kind of discrimination did go away. That's good, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.840 and it's it's also we're talking about private companies or 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.600 public companies that don't have to post this information online. 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.200 But there's some there's some industries where you actually do 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.679 have full salary transparency. I mean most city and state 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.240 employees have public salaries, and that means that it's the 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.440 public's right to know how much you're elected officials are making, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.279 or your local you know, city government employees or whatever. 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.599 And then in those cases there is a very narrow 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.200 range of what you would be making. You just hit 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.520 benchmarks and you make a certain amount of money and 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.240 there are caps, and it can't really be an other 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.960 way because everybody knows what you're paid. Yeah, and I've 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.440 talked to some people who work for public universities who 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.080 have had salary transparency their whole career, and they do 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.480 have a really different relationship and outlook on their salary 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.320 being transparent, and I think it's it's a little bit 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.000 they knew what they signed up for. And also, if 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.880 you're going into public service, you're probably not doing it 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.800 for the money. It's not the same kind of cutthroat 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.960 you judge each other based on what you make. Environment 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.479 so it is a little different. Okay, so fixing the 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:36.080 wage gap is obviously more nuanced and complex than just 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.440 making everybody's salaries known to everybody else. And maybe that's 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.040 the first step, but there's obviously a lot more going on. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.960 But let's say everybody was getting paid perfectly fair salary, 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.840 what the world? The next question is what do you 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.600 do with that money? And are there actually ways that 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.640 women are handicapping themselves by not investing that money in 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.840 the same way that men do. That's exactly what we 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:09.200 are here to talk to our guest about. Sally Crawcheck is, 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.280 apart from being the co founder of l Vest, which 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.440 helps women invest their money, is a wealth management expert 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.080 who worked her way up the financial services ladder at 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.120 places like Bank of America and Merrill Lynch, and in 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.800 recent years she's dedicated her career to helping women in business. 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.320 Is that I'm like, you're a feminist for the capital 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.560 f these days. Yes, that's correct. I love that intro. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.840 Lately your talking points has been the investing gap. The 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.120 we hear a lot about the wealth gap or the 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:44.040 wage gap between men and women, but you are drawing 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.720 attention to another aspect of difference between men and women 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.840 and how they invest. So so we talk a lot 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.560 about the gender pay gap, and let me say something 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.520 to start off with, closing the gender pay gap is 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.840 a great thing for everybody. If we could close the 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.560 gender pay gap, we could actually research shows closed the 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.120 retirement savings gap by nearly a third, so it's a 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.360 big deal. It puts money into the economy, it helps 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:11.440 families be better off, it's all good. There's another gender 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.760 gap that we don't talk about at all, which is 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.160 the gender investing gap. Men invest to a greater extent 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.040 than women do, and the gender investing gap can cost 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.560 some women more, in some cases quite a bit more 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.760 over the course of their lives, and the gender pay 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.440 gap does, but we haven't talked about it. Again, for 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.000 your listeners who aren't women, who are saying I don't know, 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.839 why do I care? You care because closing that gap 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.800 will drive capital into the markets um and will also 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.560 help close the retirement savings gap. And it's good for 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.839 all of us to have these gaps closed. So one 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.480 question I have and other people might have, is our 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.880 men and women not investing as much because women don't 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.959 have as much money. That no, that is a reason, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.160 but it's not the reason. And in fact, what really 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.120 really really bothers me is when the research will come 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:00.760 out and they'll say, oh, women and retire with two 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.439 thirds of money of men and some personal finance journalists, 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.559 none of whom work at this company. I'm sure. Well, 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.920 then say well, yeah, women should invest more, But that's 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.160 not the real issue. It's the gender pay gap. It's 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.160 sort of like saying, oh, my gosh, I broke my 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.080 arm and I broke my leg, but until I can 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.360 fix my leg, I'm not going to fix my arm. Right, So, yes, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:23.960 is some of it that it's they don't have as 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.680 much money, sure, but that's not the whole of the issue. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.560 And stopping there and saying well, we'll wait till the 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.640 gender pay gap is fixed, is I think very shortsighted. 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:36.720 So what are and done? Yeah? Okay, so not to 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.920 be dumb about it, but what are the differences in 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.640 the characteristics of or the investing styles of men vers Well, 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.240 it's a great question because there are so many articles 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.520 out there about mistakes people make when they invest, and 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:54.080 they typically are around overtrading, falling in love with your winners, 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.280 selling your losers too, quickly paying too high fees. But 0:09:58.440 --> 0:09:59.920 da da da da da, And it's sort of sort 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:04.000 as activity based mistakes. Wait a minute, those are mistakes 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.280 men make. Women make different mistakes. Those mistakes women make 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.880 our first and foremost not investing enough. The other mistake 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.320 women make, and this is gonna sound counterintuitive, is they 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.200 wait until they believe that they are fully financially educated. 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.120 So almost every women we know, I see your head nodding, 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.760 I'm going to invest. In fact, I was in Silicon 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.840 Valley a handful of weeks ago and heard from a 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.920 fellow venture capital partner his girlfriend was going to take 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:33.720 a couple of weeks off this summer so she could 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.000 learn to invest. Right, it doesn't take that long, but 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:38.800 there's a view of I need to get smarter. And 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.360 so all these women that we know have stacks of 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.040 books next to the desk and they don't invest, and 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.760 it costs them a fortune. So an example, if you're 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.600 making call it eight dollars a year, you are putting 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.480 of your income in the bank, which is what experts 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.120 recommend us a lot. But let's go with it for 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.680 a second. You're putting in the bank instead of investing, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.440 and you wait ten years. Right, Oh, I've busy. I 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.360 waited years. I hear it all the time, people waited 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.240 ten twenty years. That costs you an average of a 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.840 hundred dollars a day. That wait, right, a hundred dollars 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.520 a day. And so we underestimate the cost of waiting 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.320 and the cost of not investing substantially. I loved reading 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.959 about the thing about waiting until you're fully educated, or 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.000 waiting until you feel like you are done learning everything 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.760 you need to know before you start doing something, because 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.400 that that seems to be something that can stim me 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.320 women in other areas. They say women as opposed to 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.559 men will only apply to jobs if they have a 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.880 hundred percent of the qualifications, or you know, just tend 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.120 to sort of wait to do things until they feel 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.240 completely confident in their own abilities. And it's almost like 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.120 you're saying a little bit of fool hardiness here, like 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.520 a little bit of jumping in without I wouldn't call 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.199 it full hardiness. But but look, Francesca, did you love 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.240 getting a's at school? Of course you did right back, 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:56.480 and you loved getting right absolutely, And so we we wait. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.640 And so here's the example. When I was running Smith 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.920 Barney back in the day of our clients did not 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.719 know what a managed account was, even though it was 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.240 our largest product. Neither gender would ask. When you ask 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.600 the guys, why won't you ask it, essentially was I'm 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.560 a guy, I don't ask for directions. That's what we do. 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:13.760 And when you ask the women, they'd say, I'm a gal, 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.360 I don't want to bother. That's what we do. The 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.680 difference was the men would buy it and the women wouldn't. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:23.960 Now that full so neither knew either NW. So both 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.360 were almost I don't want to say equally, but neither 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.320 were as financially educated as they quote should have been. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:32.960 But the gentleman and biding the women wouldn't. And then 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.200 you go, okay, who just made the mistake? Given that, 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.280 and as women sometimes we were like, oh, it's the guys, right, 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.520 because they bought something they didn't know. But the truth is, 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.520 even without having full financial knowledge, they were getting the 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.640 returns over time as a result of it. So because 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.080 they were starting earlier as well, that's right, because they 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:55.240 were doing it. And so I think the biggest red 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.240 herring out there for women is we we buy into 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.160 the we need more financial education. But then we're so 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.319 busy we never get it and so we don't invest. Now, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.120 I've built elvest, which is a digital investment platform for women, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.640 and part of what we do is we try to 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.320 take away the jargon that we women will try to 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.880 understand and just have you make decisions about things that 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.640 you can control. Yeah, So hearing you talk about the 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.439 mistakes that men make and the way women act, I 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.120 completely relate to it. And also hearing about the men 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.800 really stresses me out because I don't want to be 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.280 in that position, probably because I'm a woman. You know. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:38.040 In addition to lves, what are some ways that women 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.720 can get into investing in a way that makes them 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.320 feel comfortable? Well, look, do it, um, I would say, 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:50.400 whether you use elves or not, whatever, but buying diversified, 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:55.120 low cost investments, you know, in a diversified managed et 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.240 F portfolio, that's the way to go. Go to whatever 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.720 your broker is, whatever your financial advisor, who you're comfortable 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.079 with us, and say, look, just put me an inexpensive, 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.480 highly diversified investments. To my opinion, you have to start there. 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.840 If you want to, then listen to Bloomberg all day 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.319 and figure out you know, the euro is going to 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.280 outperform the end, etcetera, etcetera. You can do that, but 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.160 by not starting with something, you're giving up too much ground. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.960 The other thing I would say is Wall Street is 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.480 pretty mail, actually, and we should keep that in mind. 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.600 It's pretty mail in that the majority of the employees 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.240 in the financial advisor segment or male, about eighty five 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:39.200 percent male financial advisors. The terms and the words we 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.040 use are very war and sports. That's one of my 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.280 big pet peeves that I talk about the sports metaphor 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.880 and and and you know, Bloomberg isn't as much as 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.880 some but the sports it looks like sports programming sometimes 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.640 right the rara, this section segment is winning, this is outperforming, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.560 this is beating, this is we're picking this winner. And 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.400 so there's sort of a very male orientation war and sports. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.480 On top of that, the symbol of Wall Street is 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:15.200 as it's above. Didn't know, you're absolutely correct. In fact, 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.600 the business I used to run, Marriledge, it's able. What's 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:25.200 a ball. It's a phallic symbol. Yes, oh we went there, 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:30.320 we went there. Okay, that's podcast later, But you know, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.880 you don't. I haven't talked to many women who have 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.400 said you know that industry just speaks to me just 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.760 it's me. It's me, And so the advice I would 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.320 give his, look, we're not going to change the whole 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.200 industry overnight, but we should recognize there's a male orientation. 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.960 It's talking to them more and sort of fight through that. 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.760 It's true. It sort of reminds me of this sounds 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.720 fairly beside the point, But I just went shopping for 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:57.120 a car with my partner recently, and in classic car 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.960 dealership style, basically all of the sales people, male or female, 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.640 addressed only him and not me. And I was furious 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.560 about it, of course, But then I realized that the 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:11.760 questions that he was asking and the things that he 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.880 was talking about, we're not particularly educated. You know. He 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.480 sort of like, I want a leather and taster, and 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.520 I want and I want, you know, like a sun roof. 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.040 And I would have felt embarrassed walking in and saying 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.520 those things because I would have felt like I had 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.840 to do months of research on chassis and whatever to 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.720 sound smart. And he didn't worry about sounding smart because 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.360 he could just be a guy and go in there 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.600 and say whatever he wants. That sort of made me 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.320 realize that like, it isn't about them having a shared language. 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.600 It's it's also about just being free to talk without 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.200 worrying too much about sounding down. But we hear that 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.320 in the financial services industry again and again that even 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.280 when when we used to ask our financial advisors, they'd 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.000 meet with couples and we'd say how much time did 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.080 you spend talking to each of them, they'd think, no, 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.360 one quite fifty fifty because the guy and I we 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.880 talked about the football game. But it's and we would 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:07.840 tape them and then we'd play it back and it 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.800 would be like and so of no wonder then that 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.480 what we saw was that men would leave their financial 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.639 advisor at a very low rate. I mean, if the 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.760 client didn't die, I'd leave less than two percent of 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.679 the time, I mean very low rate. But in the 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.560 year after his death, the husband's death, the woman would 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.480 leave at a rate of grader than seventy zero because 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.359 she needed to find somebody that spoke to her exactly 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.600 because the research tells you she says that he didn't 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.880 talk to you know, he the financial advisor didn't talk 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.159 to me for twenty years, forty years, played golf with 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.560 my husband, didn't play golf with me, talked about sports, 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.679 didn't talk to me about what I'm interested in, you know, 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.080 whatever that is. Um just you know, just I feel 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.480 I felt dissed. We're doing options trading strategies. I never 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.439 understood it. No one ever took me to lunch and 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:59.440 explained it, and the financial advisors would typically be sort 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.520 of surprised by this um and then forget it once 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.760 it went from her to the next generation. We used 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.640 to keep the assets less than two percent of the time. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.679 So starting early, finding people that you can relate to, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.560 regardless of whether or not they relate to your husband 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.439 if you're a woman. Those are all great tips for women. 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.240 But I have to ask, since starting early is so important, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:28.359 many people entering the job force or the workforce are 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.040 starting out with a negative net worth because they have 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.439 student debt and not much else. What is the correct 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.080 amount of money to have before you start investing? And 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:40.960 it's a great question. And what do you do if 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.199 if you're so broke that paying off your debt is 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.600 the only thing you can think about, Well, you should 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.320 pay off your debt, is the answer. Another question I 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.919 think young people debt have is that they wonder if 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.760 they should put any money in there for a one 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.440 k or just like you said, pay off your debt. Yeah, 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.240 I think I think it looks for oh one k 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.560 is tax deferred savings. So it's fantastic and oh my goodness, 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.199 whoa if you happen to work for an employer who 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.120 does a match, that is called free money. If they're 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.520 given away free money, take free money. And so you're 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.840 gonna wanna look at that and say, Okay, the four 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.080 oh one K if I'm young, should be mostly in 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.280 equities if there's a match. That's you know, the stock 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.120 markets have returned on average over the past many decades 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.320 and and a half percent a year. I'm not projecting 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.760 any means that it will do that again, but jeez, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.680 if you could put that into equities and have a match, 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:29.760 you know, one for one match, holl of ason you're 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.800 talking about, you know, if it does as well as 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.960 it did historically, you know, close return any that's not bad, right, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.639 So that would overcome a student loan that can be 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.840 a lower single digit rate type of cost for you. 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.000 I also wondering if somebody so you paid off your 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.520 student loans and now you're someone like me, a young 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.160 professional who's making money, doesn't I don't have any debt? 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.920 What should I be doing? Very lucky? I really relate 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:58.760 to so many of the things you said, Like I 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.919 do have money sitting in a savings account? Is that dumb? Right? 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:03.600 You know, what's some advice that you can get that 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:05.879 kind of So do you have three months of your 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.679 salary set aside in a savings account in case of 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.240 an emergency? That's the second thing you do. Because stuff happens. 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.199 Stuff happens. I really did not think I was going 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.400 to get fired from my jobs. I mean, I don't 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.679 know my business that I was running was I had 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.119 a plan and it was the only one that was 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.640 growing at the company, and you know, you just sort 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:30.400 of feel like you're okay, and then they re orged 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.800 me out. Likewise, I don't know. I was married to 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.920 the man I loved, and I really thought he loved 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:37.879 me too, But he loved my friend more than he 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.360 loved me. So that was awkward. Those things happened to me, 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.200 And actually I would say, I know, I I I've 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.240 been trying to make the argument for so freaking long 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:48.919 that if, oh if my husband would cheat on me, 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.359 your husband might cheat on you or your girlfriend or 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.439 your partner whoever, and most people like whatever, But you know, 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.439 jay Z cheated on Beyonce, and if jay Z is 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.320 going to cheat on Beyonce, just all better have an 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.480 emergency fund, is all I'm saying. Right, all I'm saying 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.639 has a pretty big emergency fund. Well, I feel like 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.119 that's why we don't feel sorry for because that woman 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:12.159 was like, hey, JC, I'm going to make it like 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.320 this whole thing about gonna make a lot of money 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:18.280 off of you. I tried that did work anyway, So okay, 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.919 back to the to the topic. Obviously she's got a 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.680 lot of money. But look, we we all know folks 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.280 who have ended up in relationships they don't want to 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:29.679 be in because they didn't have the financial with wherewithal 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.000 to leave or jobs. So get that emergency fund because 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.640 stuff happens. Okay, so this is all fantastic advice. Just 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.919 a final but well, let's say, as a final question 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.960 for you, if you had a magic wand and could 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.240 change one thing, if there was one thing you could 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.560 get all young women to do differently with their money, 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.119 what you know would be to invest, right, so it 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:57.679 would be to go into their boss's office, ask for 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.600 the raise, negotiate for the ays because we're we are 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.879 we're making less than the guys are on average, and 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.560