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Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel

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Speaker 1: one thirty two. You know the films Shakespeare and Loved

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Speaker 1: good Will, Hunting, Silver Linings, Playbook, The Man Behind Them.

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Speaker 1: Legendary Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein. After multiple sexual harassment allegations,

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Speaker 1: movie local Harvey Weinstein has been forced out of his

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Speaker 1: own company. His movies have won a total of seventy

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Speaker 1: five Oscars. Eight women, including actress Actually Judd, came forward

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Speaker 1: to accused Weinstein of sexual misconduct. The Times uncovered sexual

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Speaker 1: harassment allegations that span almost three decades. The film executive

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Speaker 1: and announced plans to take a book leave of absence.

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Speaker 1: The Famish guys coming now and one minute, and if

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Speaker 1: you want to leave when the guy comes to my gray,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Just come on. I'm used to that. Are

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Speaker 1: you're used to that? You know what? Right now, the

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Speaker 1: NYPD really ought to be a shame. And I'm a

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Speaker 1: big supporter of the police. You know, police were my

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Speaker 1: best witnesses except for a couple of dogs I put

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Speaker 1: on the stand a couple of times, and some of

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Speaker 1: the most honorable people I know police. But right now,

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Speaker 1: the Brits, the British police. Are they actually going to

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Speaker 1: bring charges against Harvey Weinstein before American cops can do it?

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Speaker 1: Please get a move on. There's more. Will it never

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Speaker 1: end with Harvey Weinstein and all of his alleged attacks

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Speaker 1: on women, ranging from groping them, harassing them, pressuring them,

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Speaker 1: chasing them around in a bathrobe that's open in the front. Man,

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Speaker 1: Please don't do that. It's not sexy. It's really not.

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Speaker 1: Don't all the way to allegations of rape. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: finding out he apparently hit on Paris Hilton in a bathroom.

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Speaker 1: Does it never end with this guy? But there's a

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Speaker 1: lot more than bathroom antics and hitting on Paris Hilton.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to arrest until somebody arrest this guy and we

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Speaker 1: find out the truth, whether these allegations are true or not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's think about it. Are all these women lying?

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Speaker 1: All thirty going on forty maybe more of them? Now?

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Speaker 1: Are they all lying? Or is it just Harvey Weinstein?

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Speaker 1: Lyne think about it. That's how I used to put

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Speaker 1: it to the jury. Joining me right now an all

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Speaker 1: star lineup, Alexis Terres Chuck joining me from Radar online

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Speaker 1: dot Com. High profile lawyer Troy Slayton joining me from

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Speaker 1: l A, apparently the hot bed of Harvey Weinstein activities.

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Speaker 1: And Dr Bethany Marshall, psycho analys joining me from l A,

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Speaker 1: and of course Alan Deep joining me from his penthouse

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Speaker 1: pad in l A. First of all, Alexis terres Chuck.

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Speaker 1: Does it never end with this guy? No, it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Every single time you think every last woman has come forward,

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Speaker 1: and another woman comes forward and surprises you with the

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Speaker 1: horrific experience that she had with Harvey Weinstein. What's the

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Speaker 1: very latest? So the latest is an actress named pas

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Speaker 1: Dela Querta. She was on Boardwalk Empire. She is the

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Speaker 1: actress that people have really picked on, I'd say for

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years. She that people say she's

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Speaker 1: drunk at events, that she's a mess, she's losing her jobs. Well,

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Speaker 1: she just explained that in two thousand ten, Harvey Weinstein

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Speaker 1: raped her twice. Perhaps an explanation for why she's had

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Speaker 1: bad LuFe. What what what? White white white white, white, white,

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Speaker 1: white white white Alexis holed on. I glanced away from

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Speaker 1: the microphone for twenty seconds to look up a picture

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Speaker 1: paras Hilton, and all of a sudden, and all of sudden,

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Speaker 1: I hearing the words raped twice by Harvey Weinstein. Start over,

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Speaker 1: excuse me what? Actress pas Dela querta beautiful actress on

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Speaker 1: Boardwalk Empire, and she says that in two thousand ten,

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Speaker 1: she had done the movie Cider House Rules a decade

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Speaker 1: earlier with Harvey Weinstein, so she knew him from that,

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Speaker 1: never had any experience with him in she met. She

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Speaker 1: saw him at a club. They hung out. She didn't

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Speaker 1: say anything and they were drinking or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: She just said they were together at an event. He

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Speaker 1: offered her a ride home. Who wouldn't take a ride

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Speaker 1: home with the head of Mirror Max, the biggest movie

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Speaker 1: studio out there. He insisted that he come up to

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Speaker 1: her apartment. She said she was apprehensive about it. But again,

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Speaker 1: the most powerful man in Hollywood, she is an actress,

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Speaker 1: comes up to her apartment. She says, immediately grabbed her

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Speaker 1: dress off, ripped it off, and raped her. Now you

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Speaker 1: said that there were two rape allegations on her part,

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Speaker 1: She says, a few months later, mid and after midnight,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Harvey Weinstein is pounding at the

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Speaker 1: door of her apartment. She lets me in again. She says,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I did it. I know how

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Speaker 1: to say no, but it was Harvey Weinstein and I

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Speaker 1: was overwhelmed. And she says he came in again and

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Speaker 1: raped her a second time. I'm so just sick, Dr

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, because rape victims sex assault victims always feel

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Speaker 1: like it's their fault. Well then always, but very often.

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Speaker 1: I understand. I understand how they feel. I have represented

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Speaker 1: so many rape victims, and like this case, the first time,

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Speaker 1: she probably thought, well, I'll let him in. You know,

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Speaker 1: that was my fault. I let him in. And then

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Speaker 1: I'm just sick about the way this is unfolding. And

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Speaker 1: I'm even sicker that no charges have been brought. Help

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Speaker 1: me get into their minds, Dr Bethany Marshall. We well,

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Speaker 1: we hear that she led him in a second time,

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Speaker 1: but what we're not hearing is all the grooming that

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Speaker 1: took place in between those two rape attacks. So I

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Speaker 1: would imagine he was stalking her, calling her, texting her.

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Speaker 1: You know, this isn't just somebody who gets a knock

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Speaker 1: at her door and let somebody in. This is somebody

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Speaker 1: who has been brought into somebody's confidence and has let

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Speaker 1: her guard down, and who can't really believe that this

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Speaker 1: powerful man would stoop to this level. You know, victims

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Speaker 1: are always vulnerable, as you know, Nancy. They they sometimes

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Speaker 1: they have things going on in their lives that make

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Speaker 1: them vulnerable. Maybe they have histories of being victims. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they can't imagine that somebody in a position of trust

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Speaker 1: would do this to them, so they leave themselves wide open,

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Speaker 1: which is not to say that it's their fault. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's very robust research into the minds of rapists, and

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Speaker 1: we know that rapists fall into three different categories. One

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Speaker 1: is a power rapist, but one is something called a

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Speaker 1: power assertion rapist, and that is the rapist who wants

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Speaker 1: to imagine that he's wanted. After the rape attack, he

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Speaker 1: will describe that the woman wanted it. He has no

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Speaker 1: idea what's going on in her mind. He imagines that

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Speaker 1: she wants to have sex with him. In his mind,

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Speaker 1: he's wanted and desirable. And when I read these reports

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Speaker 1: of him, you know, inviting young women up to his

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Speaker 1: hotel room, and his robe is unbuttoned, his pot belly

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Speaker 1: is hairy, chest of hanging out and he actually thinks

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Speaker 1: this is sexy. This to me really falls into the

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Speaker 1: category of the power assertion rapists who really wants to

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Speaker 1: think that they're wanted even though they're not. The big

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Speaker 1: question can passed Delahuerta help get Harvey wine Stain behind bars.

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Speaker 1: You know the way she describes what happened, It's awful

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Speaker 1: and I'm giving your a quote. Immediately when we got

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Speaker 1: inside the house, he started to kiss me and I

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Speaker 1: kind of brushed him away. Then he pushed me onto

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Speaker 1: the bed and his pants were down. He lifted up

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Speaker 1: my skirt. I felt afraid it was not consensual. That

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Speaker 1: happened very quickly. She goes on and ends with when

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Speaker 1: he was done, he said he'd be calling me. I

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Speaker 1: laid on the bed in chuck, Alexis tures chuck. I'm

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Speaker 1: just I'm just hurting for this woman because I know

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Speaker 1: what sex assault victims go through. And for the rest

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Speaker 1: of your life. You may go on, you may get

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Speaker 1: another job, you may succeed, you make sale, people may

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Speaker 1: think you're unstoppable, but in your mind, you still remember

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Speaker 1: that feeling of powerlessness, of helplessness, of what could I

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Speaker 1: have done different? Why didn't I do this? Why didn't

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Speaker 1: I do that? What prompted her Alexis tres Chuck Radar

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Speaker 1: online dot com to speak out. She said that she

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Speaker 1: had just seen so many people come forward and that

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Speaker 1: she realized that her time was within the statute of

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Speaker 1: limitations and that she could actually do something to stop Harpywind.

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Speaker 1: Seeing that, she realized that she could actually be effective

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Speaker 1: and perhaps putting him behind bars. And she just said,

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Speaker 1: so many people had come forward and she had been

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Speaker 1: so ready to talk about it. She told two people,

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Speaker 1: she told, I think her mother and a therapist, hardly

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Speaker 1: anybody because she was so ashamed of it, and her

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Speaker 1: career was it went nowhere. She had had a great career.

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Speaker 1: A lot of women that Harvey had attacked said the

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Speaker 1: same thing, that he destroyed their career, and that even

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Speaker 1: mirror Sorvina, who wanted Oscar said, you know, she said,

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Speaker 1: I had no proof, but my jobs went away after

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Speaker 1: she turned him down. So Pas finally realized that she

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Speaker 1: she had nothing left to do. She had to speak out,

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Speaker 1: and she is the one that may bring him down.

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Speaker 1: The NYPD says that she's very credible and that she

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Speaker 1: has given them so many explicit details that they feel

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Speaker 1: like this is the case that they could prosecute, that

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Speaker 1: they could arrest Harvey. Sorry, I'm not the lawyer. The

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Speaker 1: NYPD could arrest Harvey. I get, I understand, I understand.

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Speaker 1: So this is what we know. Paz Delaharta described to

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Speaker 1: the NYPD to alleged rapes in two thousand ten. And

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Speaker 1: as you all know by now, there's no longer statute

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Speaker 1: of limitations on rape in New York. That's my understanding

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Speaker 1: of the law. I'm gonna go to Troy Slayton on that.

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Speaker 1: Delawerta appeared in Weinstein's film cider House Rules, Okay, at

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Speaker 1: age fourteen. She ran into the producer again Weinstein, at

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Speaker 1: age twenty six. They were at the Standard at the

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Speaker 1: Highline Hotel in Manhattan two thousand and ten. She got

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Speaker 1: a ride home, all right. That's when the first alleged

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Speaker 1: rape happened. The second happened when Weinstein showed up at

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Speaker 1: her apartment in the lobby weeks later. And he has,

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Speaker 1: of course now unequivocally denied any unconsensual sex. Now, according

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Speaker 1: to the n y p D Chief of Detectives, Robert Boyce,

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Speaker 1: he has spoken about the allegations, and he says that

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Speaker 1: I'm quoting, we have an actual case here. We're happy

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Speaker 1: with where the case is right now. Mr Weinstein is

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Speaker 1: out of state. We would need an arrest warrant to

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Speaker 1: arrest him right now. We're gathering our evidence and continue

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Speaker 1: to do so. Now. It's heartening that they've said that,

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Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, you're the high profile defense lawyer, but it's

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Speaker 1: also not saying we've gotten a restaurant ready as soon

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Speaker 1: as he puts a toe in in New York. So

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Speaker 1: what do you make of it? Troy? Nancy, the NYPD

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Speaker 1: is said that these allegations are the strongest that they

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Speaker 1: have so far, and that they're taking their time to

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Speaker 1: assemble their case. And it is interesting that New York

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Speaker 1: got rid of the statue of limitations for rape um

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Speaker 1: about ten years ago, so this could very well be

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Speaker 1: the thing that takes Harvey Weinstein down. She said quote,

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Speaker 1: I was very traumatized. I don't think I was taking

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Speaker 1: very good care of myself. What happened with Harvey left

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Speaker 1: me scarred for many years. I felt so disgusted by

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Speaker 1: it with myself. I became a little self destructive. It

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Speaker 1: was really hard for me to deal to cope. What

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Speaker 1: does that main Dr Bethany Marshall, Well, what it means

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Speaker 1: is that she blames herself for the rape, that the sudden,

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Speaker 1: unwanted intrusion of something traumatic has left deep scars. One

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Speaker 1: of the things we know about post traumatic stress disorder

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Speaker 1: is that it's the unanticipated intrusive nature of what happens

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Speaker 1: that is sometimes so traumatic that the person cannot prepare

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Speaker 1: for the trauma. UM. I would imagine that what is

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Speaker 1: happening to her is similar to many rape victims. That

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Speaker 1: they dissociate, meaning they disconnect from themselves, which causes a

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Speaker 1: feeling of being deadened inside, and then often that paves

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Speaker 1: the way for eating disorders, cutting self destructive behaviors, that

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Speaker 1: that are really for the purpose of trying to feel

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Speaker 1: alive again in some way, And that there's massive distrust

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Speaker 1: in all of her relationships because when something like this happens,

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Speaker 1: you stop trusting people, and then when you stop trusting people,

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Speaker 1: you stop letting good things into your life, and then

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Speaker 1: there's no therapeutic aspect to relationships. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: So you don't trust people, you push them away, and

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Speaker 1: then then all all of a sudden, other bad happenings

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Speaker 1: start taking place into life. According to the nyp D.

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Speaker 1: Also now I'm quoting NYPD Detective Nicholas Di Guardia. He says, quote,

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Speaker 1: I believe, based on my interviews with Paths that from

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Speaker 1: the NYPD standpoint, we have enough to make an arrest.

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Speaker 1: Troy's light was the hold up. They d and the

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Speaker 1: New York County District Attorney's Office want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they have all their ducks in a row. They

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Speaker 1: know this is going to be the case of the

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Speaker 1: of a year, if not the decade, and they want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that they get it right. All eyes

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Speaker 1: are gonna be on them. He's going to have a

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Speaker 1: team of high powered lawyers, has been assigned to the

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Speaker 1: best in the office, so they just want to make

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Speaker 1: sure they get it right. Let me ask you something, Troy.

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this a lot now. New York

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Speaker 1: and a few other states, a handful of other states

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Speaker 1: have done away with the statute of limitations on rape,

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Speaker 1: much like murder. There is no statute of limitations on

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Speaker 1: murder in any jurisdiction and our country. So now a

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Speaker 1: handful of states have said there's no statute of limitations.

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Speaker 1: What I mean by that statute of limitations is this say, Um,

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Speaker 1: let's just say I go to Troy Slayton's house and

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Speaker 1: I slash his tires because I don't like what he

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Speaker 1: said on the Serious radio show. I think criminal damage

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Speaker 1: to property. You've got like a two to five year

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Speaker 1: statute of limitations. In other words, if I'm not prosecuted

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Speaker 1: within two to five years of slashing Troy's tires, they

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Speaker 1: can't touch me. I'll walk free. Here's my question. That's

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Speaker 1: what a statute of limitations is. The time within which

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Speaker 1: you can bring the prosecution has a limit. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: can't come back on me for slash those tires twenty

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Speaker 1: years from now, Okay, unless I do it against Troy,

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Speaker 1: So watch out. And there's a good there's a good

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Speaker 1: reason for that, Nancy. The reason is because it becomes

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Speaker 1: harder to defend yourself if years later you have an

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Speaker 1: alibi about where you were that night when I'm alleging

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Speaker 1: that you were slashing my tires, and that person dies

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Speaker 1: or forgets, or you lose some of the evidence that

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Speaker 1: you had to prove that you were somewhere else. So

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Speaker 1: there's a good reason for that. So here's my question

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Speaker 1: to you, Troy s Layton, if New York has now

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Speaker 1: gotten rid of the statute, does that apply, Could it

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Speaker 1: apply retroactively to older rape cases, or does that just

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Speaker 1: apply to cases that occurred since the statute was banned.

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Speaker 1: The answer is change. The law can't revive a case

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Speaker 1: that was already time barred. However, some of the older

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Speaker 1: cases that may not be able to be prosecuted on

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Speaker 1: their own, can be brought in to show Harvey Weinstein's

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Speaker 1: m O, to show his habit and routine, to show

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Speaker 1: the way that he did things, just like we saw

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Speaker 1: in the Bill Cosby rape trial. There was another case

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Speaker 1: that was brought in, not to show that he did

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Speaker 1: something else on another day, so therefore he's a bad

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Speaker 1: guy and you should convict him, but to show this

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Speaker 1: is the way that he conducted his criminal acts. So

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Speaker 1: it's called similar transactions under the law. So again, I

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Speaker 1: um could get prosecuted for slashing Troy's tires, Troy Slaton's tires,

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Speaker 1: but sas slash Alan Duke's, Analexis Torres chucks and Dr

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall's but that was fifteen years ago. Those cases

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Speaker 1: can be brought in with a Troy incident, to show

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Speaker 1: my m O, my method of operation, my motus operandi,

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Speaker 1: how I do the deed, my course of conduct, frame

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Speaker 1: of mind, scheme. So the other rape cases, the other

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Speaker 1: alleged rate cases and sex assault cases could be brought

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Speaker 1: in on Pas de la Huerta's case to show Harvey

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Speaker 1: Weinstein's m O, his course of conduct, frame of mind

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Speaker 1: and scheme, his motive. Yes, they can come into court

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Speaker 1: for that reason. Let me pause and thank our partner

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Speaker 1: start laughing because I've said it a million times to juries.

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Speaker 1: thank you for being our partner. We are on the case.

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Speaker 1: Big question, what about Paris Hilton Alexis Chuck, What happened

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Speaker 1: with that? So apparently with long time ago? Actually in

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Speaker 1: two thousand one, Paris Hilton was at this very exclusive

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Speaker 1: fundraiser am Far, which Harvey Weinstein does every year. I

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Speaker 1: can't understand you're talking l a valley girl. What did

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Speaker 1: you just say? Paris Hilton was in a fund. All

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Speaker 1: I heard was at the very very Harris Hilton went

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Speaker 1: to a fundraiser. The organization is called amphar A m

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Speaker 1: F A R. Harvey Weinstein has been involved for decades.

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Speaker 1: Paris Hilton walked in wearing I think three quarters of

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Speaker 1: a million dollars worth of diamonds on her dress, so

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Speaker 1: she instantly obviously everybody was looking at her, but Harvey

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Speaker 1: zeroed in on her. He basically stalked her throughout the party,

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Speaker 1: waited until she went into the bathroom, and actually followed

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Speaker 1: her into the bathroom, tried to push open the stall

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Speaker 1: that she was in, trying to get to her. Luckily,

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Speaker 1: Paris did not open the stall, and security had watched him.

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Speaker 1: They thought it was very strange that he was going

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Speaker 1: into the women's bathroom, and they dragged him out of there.

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Speaker 1: They had to stay by Paris's side the whole night

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Speaker 1: to keep him away from her. They were so afraid

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Speaker 1: that he was going to do something at her, and

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Speaker 1: he was apparently very lecherously going after her. Oh so,

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Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, let me just wrap this up and put

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Speaker 1: a bow on it. Where is You may not even

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Speaker 1: know this, Alexis Chuk. Where is Harvey Weinstein right now.

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Speaker 1: So he is still in treatment, his treatment in Phoenix, Arizona.

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Speaker 1: But he actually was spotted over the weekend at a restaurant.

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Speaker 1: But he was wearing a disguise. He had on like

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Speaker 1: a blonde wig, as if the whole world doesn't know

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Speaker 1: what Harvey Weinstein looks like now, he was trying to

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Speaker 1: hide out. He was at a chain restaurant and just

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Speaker 1: chowing down on dinner, but not under arrest, not really

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Speaker 1: doing any intensive therapy, just having dinner out in a way. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So apparently he's not that concerned Troy Slayton because according

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Speaker 1: to TMZ, Harvey Weinstein quote wigs out at Phoenix restaurant.

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Speaker 1: I mean, have you seen this picture of him? He

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Speaker 1: apparently shows up in a not uh, not so good

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Speaker 1: disguise at a Phoenix restaurant and it was a blonde

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Speaker 1: wig with orange and makeup and a baseball cap. He

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Speaker 1: showed up at something called Chestnut Restaurant. He asked for

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Speaker 1: a private room, but the room was all glass so

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Speaker 1: everybody could still see him. Um, that's what I know.

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Speaker 1: So how can NYPD get their mits on him, Troy?

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Speaker 1: If he's in Arizona and so called treatment at the

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Speaker 1: Chestnut restaurant in a blonde wig. As soon as n

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Speaker 1: y p D gets before a judge and gets a

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Speaker 1: warrant signed based on probable cause, they can execute that

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Speaker 1: warrant uh in cooperation with local authorities. And he were

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Speaker 1: in the Unit States. He's not going anywhere. Harvey Weinstein

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Speaker 1: is being watched. And I think that as soon as

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Speaker 1: they've got their ducks in a row and they're ready

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Speaker 1: to start their prosecution, then he'll be facing arrest no

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Speaker 1: matter what. To Bethany, why is it that so many

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Speaker 1: people find God when they're behind bars? And let me

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Speaker 1: tell you funny story, Dr Bethany. So when I was

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Speaker 1: first prosecuting, I was doing a plan arrayment calendar, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he brought fifty sixty guys over from the jail,

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Speaker 1: maybe three or four women, and I had on a

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Speaker 1: cross necklace. It was very you know, small, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess they saw it. The next that was on Monday.

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Speaker 1: I had another calendar on Thursday. No, because I would

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Speaker 1: go through the cases, I would give a plea offer

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Speaker 1: or if there was gonna be one, which they all

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Speaker 1: hated because they thought it was too strict and then

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Speaker 1: they come back, let's stay on Thursday, and they either

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Speaker 1: take the player to put him on a trial calendar.

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Speaker 1: When they came back on Thursday, Dr Bethany, about eighteen

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Speaker 1: or nineteen of them had woven and from yarn. I

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Speaker 1: don't know where they got giant crosses, and we're wearing

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Speaker 1: them around their necks and came in and we're like

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Speaker 1: looking at me with these sad puppy eyes. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: that yarn, it's not working on me. Okay. So apparently

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Speaker 1: apparently Weinstein has has found the Lord. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad for him if this is true, because he's

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Speaker 1: sure is gonna need it on his hat. This is

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Speaker 1: how I know this. I had a hat at Chestnut

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Speaker 1: restaurant and it was on top of his orange makeup

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Speaker 1: and blonde wig. It was a hat and it was

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Speaker 1: inscribed to Cohen twenty four. And there's a Bible verse

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Speaker 1: that reads, but God raised him from the dead, freeing

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Speaker 1: him from the agony of death because it was impossible

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Speaker 1: for death to keep its hold on him. So, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I want Harvey Weinstein to, you know, realize

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Speaker 1: the bad thing he's done and just go ahead and

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Speaker 1: play guilty and go to jail, don't lie about it,

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Speaker 1: and he can explore verse two for a nice long

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Speaker 1: time behind bars. Why is he finding God now? Well,

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Speaker 1: I do not begrudge him God, just like you don't

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Speaker 1: be grudge God. But you know, when you talk about

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Speaker 1: these these convicts coming and they have all these crosses

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Speaker 1: around their neck, and then Harvey Weinstein and he has

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Speaker 1: this Bible verse on his hat, I mean I just

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Speaker 1: tend to think of it as magical thinking, meaning that

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Speaker 1: they think God is going to magically swoop down and

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Speaker 1: save them. I also see it as a form of manipulation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Harvey is highly manipulative. He always his victims

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Speaker 1: were actresses, women who wanted something from him, and he

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Speaker 1: would target that population. And it's almost as if he's

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Speaker 1: targeting the public at this point by plastering this Bible

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Speaker 1: verse on his hat. You know, Nancy, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that really upsets me about this story and uh

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Speaker 1: similar stories where men go to treatment for sex addiction,

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Speaker 1: is that this has nothing to do with sex addiction.

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Speaker 1: This has to do with criminality. This has to do

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Speaker 1: with being a sex offender. Um, you talked about similar

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Speaker 1: transactions from a legal perspective. I just hear offending pattern.

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Speaker 1: He had the same exact offending pattern with each woman,

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Speaker 1: And you know, I wanted to circle back. You were

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Speaker 1: asking about the destructive psychological effect of being raped or

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Speaker 1: being a sexual abuse victim. One of the tragedies for

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Speaker 1: these victims is that they feel guilty and ashamed because

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Speaker 1: they all wanted something. Sexual abuse victims always want something,

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Speaker 1: and that's what leaves leaves them wide open. Children want

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Speaker 1: to be loved. That's why they are groomed by adults. Um.

427
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: These women wanted roles. That's why they were targeted by Harvey. Um.

428
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: Women want to be seen um as being sometimes acquiescent

429
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: and going along with things and not causing trouble, and

430
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: that's what opens them up to being victims. And Harvey

431
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: played right into that. So there's no sexual treatment center

432
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: that's going to help him with that. He's just a criminal, Nancy.

433
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: Another issue, I don't understand, And tell me if I'm wrong, Um, alexis,

434
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: But I'm understanding. He did like one week in a

435
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: facility and now it's quote out patient because I mean

436
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: he's slinking around. He is slinking around in public with

437
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: a blonde wig on on an orange and makeup according

438
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: to TMZ, So if he's in rehab at some facility,

439
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: what's he doing at at chestnut restaurant with a wig on?

440
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: So he only did about one week in treatment and

441
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: now he's doing outpatient treatment, which is clearly not that

442
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: strick because he's in restaurants with you know, hiding out

443
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: in a wig, hiding out in plain sight. I guess

444
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: he is. He's not in a thirty day facility. He's

445
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: not in a serious treatment center. He and you know,

446
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: he didn't even want to do that one week because

447
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: he did not want to be away from his cell phone. Okay,

448
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: we're on it and we're waiting for n Y p

449
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: D to do something. I don't even know what's happening

450
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: with the l A p D, but I guess you

451
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: know it looks right now the Brits are going to

452
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,720
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483
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Speaker 1: C dot com code Nancy. A Texas university is rocked

484
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: by the mystery death of a young teen cheerleader just

485
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: just gorgeous. Police now looking at possible homicide after the

486
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: girl kill him and Dotti stops breathing in a friend's car.

487
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: That that doesn't even make sense to me, Ca you

488
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: stop breathing in a friend's car, and now a homicide investigation.

489
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: The teen cheerleader is Keilly Mandotti. Cheryl McCullum, crime scene expert,

490
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: What what do we know right now? Why why don't

491
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: you just stop breathing? Because when they say it that way, Cheryl,

492
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: it makes it sound like she had a health issue.

493
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: But if it was a health issue, why is homicide

494
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: sniffing around? Well, not just that, if it was a

495
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: health issue, they would have stayed with her at the hospital, Nancy,

496
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: Her friends dropped her off, they bounced, they got out

497
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: of there. So it says to me, the autopsy is

498
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: going to show some type of illegal substance potentially in

499
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: her body. There was a reason they fled. You know,

500
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at this photo of her. Cheryl and

501
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: I always would struggle, if you recall of our days

502
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: in court, to find a way to show the jury

503
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: the victim in life. And you know that's inadmissible. Pictures.

504
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: Photos of the victim in life are inadmissible in a

505
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: court of law and criminal trial because there's no relevance.

506
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: And the defense will argue that that's just Nancy Grace

507
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: trying to get sympathy by showing the jury who this

508
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: victim was. And I always thought that was just the

509
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: most stupid rule of evidence. But Cheryl I would learn

510
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: a way around it. For instance, if there had been

511
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: a blow to the head, I would say, but your honor,

512
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: this is the only way that I can show a

513
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: really good picture of the victim's head. Because the autopsy

514
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: photos show the head cut open. The jury can't even

515
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: tell what that is for pizza with the skin pulled back,

516
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: And that's why I had to show this picture. You know,

517
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: I'm looking this picture of this girl and she's got

518
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: an little cheerleading out fits as tigers and she's in

519
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: front of a statute of a tiger. He reminds me. Recently,

520
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: I went down to Mercer, Cheryl, where you know, I

521
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: went to underground law school before I went to n

522
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: y U, and I took a picture with the bear

523
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: as a giant bear. And here she is, and she's

524
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: got this huge, gorgeous, gorgeous brunette hair down to her waist.

525
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: And this is what got me, aside from her big smile.

526
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: Somebody spent a lot of money on those teeth. But

527
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: she's got this huge bow on top of her head, Cheryl,

528
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: and that bow. There's always been something about every case

529
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: I investigate or try, there's always one seemingly insignificant fact

530
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: that just I can't get it out of my mind.

531
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: And it's the bow, Cheryl. It's the bow. You know why,

532
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: because that was my little girl's signature of style up

533
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: until this year when she just turned in. She got

534
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: she quipped with the bows. No matter where she went,

535
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: she would have a huge it could be huge, it

536
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: could be little bow stuck on her head, usually right

537
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: in the middle of her head. And we have a closet,

538
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: a tiny, shallow closet of bows, and they're still there.

539
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm not giving up on the bows because I wanted

540
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: to return to them. When I saw this picture of

541
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: Kelly with that big bow on her head and that

542
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: big smile, and now I think this girl is dead

543
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: and homicide is investigating. I could help but think about

544
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: Lucy Cheryl. I just could not help it. Yeah, she's

545
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: read dogs, she's so attractive, she looks like so much fun.

546
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: She's in a sorority, she's a cheerleader on this college campus,

547
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: and you think this is the greatest time of her life.

548
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: There's no question, And I agree with you. That bow

549
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: looks to me like anybody that's ever had a little

550
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: girl into your leading, that's that thingnature bow right on

551
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: top of their heads, bigger than their head, so you

552
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: can see it from the sands, Tony, and that's what

553
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: it looks like. And I guarantee you that's why she

554
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: did it, so her family can make her out at

555
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: a distance. Should have the boat. I used to do

556
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: that with Lucy and soccer out of a giant pink

557
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: bow in her head so I could find her out

558
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: on the soccer field. The mysterious death of a teen girl,

559
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: a Texas cheerleader has totally shaken a small university campus

560
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: and it is Trinity University in San Antonio. Little Kelly

561
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: and Dotti is dead and Texas Rangers are now investigating

562
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: her death as a homicide. I want to go to

563
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: John Limley Crime Stories investigative reporter John, tell me what happened?

564
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: How did this girl end up in the emergency ramp?

565
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: In addition to being a nineteen year old a cheerleader,

566
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: she was a sophomore at Trinity University UM and also

567
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: a sorority sister. Now Texas Rangers are investigating her death,

568
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, as a possible homicide. The teenager had

569
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: been a passenger in that car on its way back

570
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: to San Antonio from Houston during the day on Halloween

571
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: when someone in the car noticed she wasn't breathing. Okay.

572
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe Carmichael uh, New York psychologist and creator of

573
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: Anxiety tools dot Com, is with us, Dr Chloe. When

574
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm in the car, I've got the twins in the car.

575
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: We're all talking and jabbering and having a good time.

576
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: This morning. I recall when I took him to school.

577
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: Lucy got guinea pigs for for her birthday. Don't even

578
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: ask so she didn't do her times tables, so the

579
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: whole way we were doing practicing times tables for her test,

580
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: and of course John David was butting in, causing mayhem,

581
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: and we were all talking the whole whole way. That

582
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: doesn't sound right to me, right there, Dr Chloe, That's

583
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at. You drive all the way back

584
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: to school to San Antonio and you just notice after

585
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: a period of times somebody's not breathing. What that doesn't

586
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: sound right? Dr Chloe. Absolutely, Nancy, it founds absolutely bizarre.

587
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: It's not a narrative that makes any sense. And the

588
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: fact that they're not really offering any other explanation about it.

589
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: It seems whether it's a conscious or unconscious type of

590
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: denial that's going on. When we hear a report like

591
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: that with just kind of this detachment that that conveys

592
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: that we just noticed that she wasn't breathing. Um, You're

593
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. It doesn't sound logical at all. In

594
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: details of who was in the car with Kelly are

595
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: also unknown. Sherley, you said that they just dropped her

596
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: off at the emergency room and left. Correct. They apparently

597
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: took I ten from San Antonio to Houston, which names

598
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: it is the three and a half hour trip. That's

599
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: the seven hour round trip on top of however much

600
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: time they spent in Houston, So it could be they

601
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: thought she didn't taking an apple on the way back,

602
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: depending on what they did then if they were their

603
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: party in or we don't know why they even went

604
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: to Houston. We don't even know who was in the car,

605
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: but somewhere about who iurs into the trip, they noticed

606
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: she's not breathing. They dumped her off at this hospital

607
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: in some little nowhere towns and leave her and head

608
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: back to San Antonio with notice. Back to John Lemley,

609
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter. Her friends, the friends of the

610
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: little cheerleader also tight lipped. They say it was definitely

611
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: not a suicidal I mean, they're in the car weather,

612
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't they have known what happened? They're claiming they were

613
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: quote unusual circumstances. You know what, John, Let's just take

614
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: it from the beginning, okay, because I've gotten as far

615
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: afield with Lucy's bow and the multiplication tables started at

616
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: the beginning, John Limley, if you don't mind, absolutely, we

617
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: know that Kaylee Mandati was riding in a car an

618
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: hour or so away from San Antonio from Houston. This

619
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: was during the day on Halloween, and again someone looked

620
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 1: around and realized that Kaylee was not breathing. They took

621
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: Mandati to a hospital in Lulling, Texas, and then they

622
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: left the other passengers in the car. Now. Mandatti was

623
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: later transferred to another hospital in Kyle, Texas, where she

624
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: was pronounced dead around three forty three that afternoon. Again,

625
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: this was October. Details of who was in the car

626
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: with Mandatti remain unknown now. The day after Mandati's death,

627
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: Trinity University sent out a safety alert to the campus,

628
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: urging students to look out for a man named Mark

629
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: how Arton, who was not enrolled but was associated with

630
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: the cheerleader. In fact, I did a quick Facebook check

631
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: this morning before we began talking, and it shows Kayley

632
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: as one of Howardton's Facebook friends. And speaking of Facebook,

633
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: according to numerous selfies that Howardton made, he was quite

634
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: the serious bodybuilder and like to chronicle his progress. In fact,

635
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: the page is completely filled with these with these selfies

636
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: of Howardton at the gym. Okay, hold on right now,

637
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm about to go off track again. Cheryl McCollum. I

638
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: told my husband, David, I said, you know what, if

639
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: you get all bulked up and buff, you know what,

640
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: I'm calling your parents because I need a man that

641
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: goes to work. Okay, you do not have time to

642
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: go be a gym rat and bulk up and work

643
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: out all day long. Sure, go for a jog, go

644
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: for a walk, get your cardio in, lift a little

645
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: weights here and there. But that's it. Now. When a

646
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: guy is spending four and five hours at a time

647
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: in the gym, Cheryl, that just something rubs me wrong

648
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: about that, Cheryl. I hear you, Nancy, But I tell

649
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: you what rubs me the wrong way is how everybody

650
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: begin tight Limp, even her family, her sorority, her classmates.

651
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: That let me, let me sleep this out. All of

652
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: his sealthies in what looks like a iPhone, they're gonna

653
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: be able to ping that and tell us everywhere he

654
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: went in Houston and for how long? So again was

655
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: he there to buy drugs, Dell drogs, What in the

656
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: world were they doing? Well, this is what the alert

657
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: says that John Limley is telling us about it. It's

658
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: got two pictures of him which were pretty easy to

659
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: find you're right about all those photos, John Limley. It says, quote,

660
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: should you observe Mr Howarton on our campus or any

661
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: other suspicious activity, please contact university police immediately. Oh seven oh.

662
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: Also be aware of your surroundings, reports suspicious activity immediately.

663
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: Never attempt to engage the person involved in criminal activity.

664
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: Use alerts to directly report to t U p D

665
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: or see virtual escort twenty four hours a day. Why

666
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: are they telling students they need a virtual escort if

667
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: they see this guy? Trinda University p D say they

668
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: issued Howardtons a criminal trespass warrant. Warning on Howardton he

669
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: had been on campus before Keely's death. Quote, we want

670
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: people to know this person is not welcome back on campus.

671
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: He was associated with Kelly. Now that's from the university spokesperson,

672
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: Sharon Jones Schwitzer. We've increased patrols, increased the university police presence,

673
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: trying to get the word out to students to be

674
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: on the lookout. Now, I don't understand what connection unless

675
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: he was in the car, what connection he would have

676
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: to her. Also listen to this Cheryl McCollum and autopsies

677
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: being carried out on Little Kelly, but the results could

678
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: take three months. You know what that means toxicology, no question.

679
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: And Nancy, here's what article. You know as well as

680
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: I do. The things that go on on a college

681
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: campus that the campus police are completely unaware of. If

682
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: they've already zeroed in on this man, he is well

683
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: known to them, So that tells me he's been an

684
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: issue on that campus for a minute. They know him,

685
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: so again, he's either a drug dealer or he is

686
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: somebody that is called major problems on that campus. There's

687
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: something else I don't understand. Dr Chloe Carmichael, creator of

688
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: Anxiety Tools dot com, New York psychologist, joining us today.

689
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: Why would her friends not this guy? Why would her

690
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: friends just drop her at the emergency room and leave

691
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: her why? Well, yes, Nancy, I'm glad you noticed that.

692
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: It certainly does. You know. Just it's it's absolutely bizarre.

693
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: It's kind of the opposite of concern um. It kind

694
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: of goes with this idea that there's a detachment that

695
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem normal in a friendship where they just report, oh,

696
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: she we've just we've noticed that she stopped breathing, and

697
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: so we're just going to drop her off at some

698
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, random emergency room. Um It, the story just

699
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: isn't adding up. There's there's something about it that just

700
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: isn't making sense. Questions swirling. What Cheryl, go ahead. You

701
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: and I had a case where these group of friends

702
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: dropped somebody off of the emergency room with Grady and

703
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: they filed what makes perfect Wait? Wait, what case was that, Cheryl.

704
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: I don't remember the name of the female, but she

705
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: odeed in the car and all of her friends, hey it,

706
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: thinking we're gonna go to jail because we were all

707
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: doing drugs. They take it to the emergency room to

708
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: get her help, but they left her. You know what,

709
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: I'm glad you reminded me of that, Cheryl, because now

710
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: I'm remembering that. You know, Cheryl, I've tried so many

711
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: cases I cannot even document them all and taken believe

712
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: or not, cherylne I tried to add it up because

713
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: I would get about a hundred and fifty new felonies,

714
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: all felonies a week, I believe is the way it went.

715
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: I can't even remember it. And then that would be

716
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: four weeks a month, twelve months a year times ten

717
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: I think was the number. It's there's so many. I

718
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: can't even remember them all now, Cheryl, I remember most

719
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: of the cases I tried. But you're right just dumping

720
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: her off um. Questions still swirling around the death of

721
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: this team cheerleader, Kelley Mandotti. Trinity University is saying it's

722
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: a very close knit community. Well, if it's this close knit,

723
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: why wasn't this guy already kicked off campus? What was

724
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: he doing there? She's just a sophomore, for Pete's sake.

725
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 1: That puts her at about nineteen years old. She died

726
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: on Halloween Day. We know that Trinity sends out this

727
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: alert to all the students, and right now everybody has

728
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: clammed up. Cheryl McCullum, you're the crime scene expert, you're

729
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: the Cold Case Institute director. Why is everybody clamming up?

730
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: See when everybody gets tight lipped, that makes me highly suspicious.

731
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: They know something that they don't want to tell, Otherwise

732
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: they'd be talking. So here's one there. She gets in

733
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: the car with this guy that's the known drug dealer.

734
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: They're gonna go to Houston to pick up whatever it

735
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: is that everybody won'ts so they have the ween party.

736
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: So she gets in the car with some other folks.

737
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 1: They've all got the money from all the other people

738
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 1: that won't. Let's say pot. So they get out there,

739
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: they get the weed. They're on the way back, they're

740
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: partying on the way back. Let's say the weed they

741
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: got no good, it's got sentinel in it. She stopped

742
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: breathing because she has o DS. That could be a

743
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: major issue where everybody says, we gotta get rid of

744
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: the weed. We gotta get rid of her the hospital.

745
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: We're out. You know what about this idea, Eryl McCullum,

746
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: and it's Jackie's idea here in the studio with me.

747
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 1: What if they tried to clean out the car? Maybe

748
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,439
Speaker 1: what if they left for that reason? Again, we don't

749
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: know this guy is a drug dealer, whether it's steroids,

750
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: illegal in narcotics, whatever, we don't know that, and he

751
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: has not been charged with that. We're just trying to

752
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: figure out what happened to Kelly. I mean, you send

753
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: your daughter off, You've done all you can do. You

754
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: finally get them to college where they're gonna do well,

755
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: and they're gonna get out and have a great job

756
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: and a happy life, and then this, I mean, I

757
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine it. You know, I dropped my

758
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: children off in the morning, and I believe I watched

759
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: him walk in because of Karen Horman, watch him walk

760
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: in the door. And now that they're safe, and then

761
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: I try not to worry about them the rest of

762
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: the day. Cheryl, you take your children to this great

763
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 1: little university and then your daughter ends up dumped at

764
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: the e r and dead. Cheryl, It's it's unfathomable, Nancy.

765
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: And again, I mean, she's an athlete, she's beautiful, she's

766
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: clearly intelligent. I mean, she's on that path, she's got

767
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,439
Speaker 1: the world by the tail, and something had gone terribly wrong.

768
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at her in this big, big, beautiful smile.

769
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe Carmichael, I cannot imagine what her parents and

770
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: family are going through right now. Yes, Nancy, it's a

771
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: it's it's really hard to imagine that because this is

772
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: the time when they were probably working really hard to

773
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: let themselves let go a little bit. It's not easy

774
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: for parents to do that. But as you said, she's

775
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: a sophomore now, so after you get over that freshman hump,

776
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: then you parents usually start to relax just a little

777
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: bit um, which is just you know, so and so

778
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: terribly unfortunate here that just as soon as they were

779
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: probably beginning to feel a little bit comfortable, um, they

780
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: got this terrible surprise. And it's really unfortunate too, because

781
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,479
Speaker 1: it does sound like there is um more to come

782
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: in terms of surprises. The theory about the idea that

783
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: they were probably going to get some drugs doing something

784
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: that they shouldn't have been, which would explain why the

785
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: other you know, young people in the car wanted to

786
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: try to just drop her off and run away and

787
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: distance themselves. Not that I'm saying that makes it right

788
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: for them to do that, but at least for us

789
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: to understand why they would behave in such a bizarre manner.

790
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: So the parents, to your point, Nancy, are probably just

791
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: in a world of confusion and paine right now. Another clue,

792
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, is that she was taken to the hospital

793
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: by the people in the car, hospital in Luling before

794
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: she was transferred to another hospital in Kyle, Texas, and

795
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: it was later that day she was pronounced dead. So

796
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: whatever happened to her, it was not immediate. She was

797
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: alive when she was dropped at the hospital in Luling,

798
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: she was alive when she was at the hospital in Kyle, Texas,

799
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: and it was only hours later that she was pronounced dead.

800
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: What indication is that she wasn't shot, she was a

801
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 1: strangled dead or she would have been you know, dead

802
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: much more quickly than that. So what do you think,

803
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: what what does that tell us that one clue that

804
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: time period, Cheryl, Well, they said she was not breathing,

805
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: so that's probably what they said to the emergency woman. Well,

806
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: that again sounds like potential overdose. If she was an athletic,

807
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: they would have stayed with her, they would have called

808
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: her mom, they would have called rority sisters. They didn't

809
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: do that. They dropped her off, which indicates to me

810
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 1: they knew so n illegal was going to come about

811
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: the you know, we found out in some way, so

812
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, whatever she took, thought her from breathing, Well,

813
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they could revive her. So it sounds

814
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: like to me they got her there and they just

815
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: could not bring her back. Well, the fact that nobody's

816
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: talking and they've issued this alert to find this Howarton,

817
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: there's much more to the story and the death of

818
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: a gorgeous young Trinity University cheerleader. We're on it. Nancy

819
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: Gray's crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,