WEBVTT - S1: Bonus EP 4 - The Burden of Truth: Tracyraquel’s Journey for Justice 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.360 Hi, It's Nancy Glass. I hope you've been able to 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.200 watch Burden of Guilt, the docu series on Paramount Plus. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:10.320 That's where you can see the actual footage from the trial. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.440 You can meet the investigators, and of course you'll see 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:19.000 Tracy Riquel Burns, the hero, the warrior in this story. 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.759 And now that it's on the air, I wanted to 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.040 talk with her again. Tracy Riquel, this is our first 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:34.120 conversation since the documentary premiered on Paramount Plus. So what's 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.199 life been like for you since the TV series launched? 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:49.479 That is a tough one. A life has been well, overwhelming, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:58.600 It's been overwhelming. I didn't expect to feel so exposed. 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.640 I think prior to all of this, if if you 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.480 had googled my name, nothing would have ever come up. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.800 You would have never seen a picture. And that's very 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:16.280 much how I how I liked my life to be. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:21.600 I felt very safe and comfortable. And it's absolutely not 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.880 that that way now. And I knew that was going 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.120 to be that way, and I and I you know, 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:31.320 I understood the risk for that. And there are purposes 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.199 for doing this, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.800 But yes, it's been it's been overwhelming to me, and 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:40.520 you know, I've had sleepless nights and all of that 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.040 is just trauma from my childhood, and you know, feeling 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.080 vulnerable and afraid, I wanted to, you know, crawl into 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.200 the corner of my closet and not come out, to 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.080 be honest, but it's irrational and you have to talk 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:55.280 yourself through it, and I have. 0:01:55.600 --> 0:02:00.000 Well, here's the thing, Tracy Ruquel. I don't think there's 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.280 there's anything wrong with that. I think that's a natural reaction. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.800 But I do wonder do you regret having made the 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:11.520 documentary and the podcast. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.120 No, I mean. 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.560 No, I do not regret doing it. I have moments 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.400 where you know, you wish you could have your cake 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.399 and eat it too. But if that makes some sort 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:26.080 of sense. 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.880 Yeah, you wish you could tell your story and then 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:30.560 disappear into the ether. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.000 Yeah, I could have my total safe feeling and be 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.480 totally anonymous. And it doesn't work that way, and I 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.600 get that. So no, I have no regrets. But yeah, 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.160 it's what stepping into the fire is all about. 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.720 So let me ask you about jan Berry Salmon, the murderer, 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.400 the man who killed your baby brother and the man 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:52.359 who is your father. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:54.320 Well, we don't know that for sure. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.359 We don't know for sure. You're absolutely right. 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.240 Yeah, I don't know who is my biological father, and. 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.680 You're hoping it's not Jan Barry Sanmlin. 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.920 Yes, at this point, that's just not even something I 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:06.400 think about. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.919 But you saw him on the documentary. How did he 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:10.560 look to you? 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.519 He looks like an elderly man that's been in prison 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.040 for a very very long time. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:17.639 You know. He looks like he's been through a lot, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.320 and he looks rough. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.079 How many years has it been since you've seen Jan's face? 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:30.320 I have seen Jan's face twice a month every year 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:36.440 since the trials. Why because I go on Florida Department 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.680 of Corrections twice a month to make sure he's still 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:44.240 in prison. And I heard Leanne Mangon on the docuseries, 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.160 and she was one of the prosecutors say that he 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.360 is one of the only people that she's ever put 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.120 in prison that she goes on Google to check and 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.400 see that he's still in prison. And it shocked me 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.680 when I heard it, and I was like, yes, that's 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.720 what I do. I go and make sure he is 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.480 still sitting where he is and so, yes, it wasn't 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.920 shocking to me to see his face because I see 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.720 it all the time and they update that picture every Sunday. 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:12.960 So if he were to ever break out of prison 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:14.840 or they let him out of prison, I know exactly 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.640 what he looks like and I know exactly where he is. 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.880 And maybe some people would say that's unhealthy, or maybe 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.760 it's healthy, it's beneficial to me. 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:26.880 Yeah, you're doing. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.680 What you need to protect yourself apparently. So yes, have 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.839 you heard from Kathy, your mother since this came out? 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:35.479 No? 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.120 And you haven't heard from Sheila, her sister. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:39.440 No. 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.839 Okay, I want to shift to Ted Golder. He was 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.680 married to your mother and you thought he might have 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.760 been your father. He was definitely your baby brother, Matthew's 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.919 biological father, and you talked about him at length in 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:59.160 the podcast. Well, as you know, we received an email 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.120 from his sister. Can I read part of that email 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.520 to you and talk with you about your feelings? 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:08.240 Okay? 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:08.799 All right? 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:13.440 So she says, I'm the sister of Ted Golder. My 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.599 brother passed away in two thousand and six of als 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.679 and since he has no voice to speak his side 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.919 of the story, I'll speak for him. My mother told 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.599 him to stay away from Kathy. That's your mother. She 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.760 was not the girl for him. But my brother had 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.200 no intention of listening to my mother, and so it began. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.120 He was in love with her. She could do no 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.159 wrong in his eyes. She was a majorrete in high school, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.240 very popular. He was proud of her. He was aware 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.320 of her relationship with Jan Sanlin, but blind to the 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.880 fact of how deeply she was involved with him and 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.760 would never break that tie. And as she stated at 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:59.320 the trial, Kathy said, I loved Jan since I was 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.200 twelve years old and that never wavered. So now, in 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.440 nineteen sixty eight, Ted gets drafted and he had to 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.440 go to Vietnam and during his tour of duty, that's 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.480 when Kathy, who was his wife at the time, wrote 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:18.400 him a Dear John letter. Dear John, is goodbye, It's over. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.400 She still has that letter. His sister still has that letter. 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.880 So he wrote to his mother and told her about 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.880 the letter, and he said he threw his wedding ring 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:33.120 into the Sigone River. He said, mother, you're right. And 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.839 Kathy said to him in the letter that her baby 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.880 was Jan Sandlan's baby, and he was getting divorced from her. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.040 And then you fast forward to the summer of nineteen seventy. 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.640 Ted returns home and he's back with Kathy. Tracy's just 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.800 a baby. My mother and father accepted it and even 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.560 had Kathy, Ted and Tracy up on the lake in 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.240 their boat. So everything seemed to be going fine. Ted 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.560 and Kathy got apartment, and Kathy was pregnant, and I 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.600 would visit them in their apartment. I even suggested to 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.200 Cathy to name the baby Matthew, and everything seemed to 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.760 be fine. Then Ted called his sister to say he 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.760 came home from work and Cathy had moved out. She 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.520 was maybe seven months pregnant. No reason, just left. Ted 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.720 had to regroup. He quit his job in Alabama, he 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.000 moved back to Atlanta. He was never able to see 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.600 his son, Matthew born, or even know where Kathy had gone. 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.360 He had no way of finding her yet. Then he 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.960 came back to Atlanta, was notified that the baby was dead, 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.040 and the first time he saw his son was at 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.040 a funeral home. And then the night he came home 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.800 from the funeral, he put his fists through our parents' door. 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:56.680 He was so distraught. And then years later my brother 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.680 told me about a paternity test, and how he was 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.320 to be, you know, talking to you, Tracy, and he 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:08.320 was excited. This is now. He was excited to maybe 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.880 be having grandchildren. He told me they could come over, 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.000 jump all over his furniture, he wouldn't care. But the 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:18.080 test came back and you weren't his daughter, and he 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:23.640 was very, very disappointed. Even though everybody knew all along 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.400 the truth, he was still hoping for a miracle. The 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.880 letter also says that she and her sister were at 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.960 the trial every day in the back row, and after 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.800 the trial, they're interviewing Kathy, your mother outside the courthouse. 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:42.440 She was never charged with anything, but Ted's sister came 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.280 up to Kathy and told her she was just as 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.320 guilty as Jan and she needed to be in jail. So, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.880 if I were to sum up that letter, here's the 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.040 gist of it. So Ted and Kathy get married. Ted 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.320 goes off to Vietnam. He gets a letter from Kathy, 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.319 A dear John letter said saying, I don't love you. 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:06.960 The baby isn't yours. I want a divorce. He's broken hearted. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.480 He gets home, but then everything seems to be fine again. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.199 They're living together, they're happy. He comes home one day 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.160 and Kathy's moved out. He doesn't know what's happened, he 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.000 doesn't know where she's gone. He moves to Atlanta to 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.400 go and find her, and the only thing he knows 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:31.720 about this baby is that the baby has died. So, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.600 Tercy Riquel, what do you think of that letter? 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.280 Most of what she said in the letter is the 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.640 same information that Ted had said to me when I 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.240 was speaking to him in the early to mid nineties. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:51.400 There was a period of time that I had communicated 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.600 with Ted Golder. We had gotten in touch. He wanted 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.040 to do a paternity test, and we talked for about 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.960 six weeks, and during that six weeks he had told 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.480 me pretty much what she states in this letter. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.240 You spoke to Ted Golder's sister on the phone. What 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.080 did she say to you? 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.240 You know, she told me about her brother and you 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.120 know him in high school, and how handsome and sweet 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.440 he was, and you know how much she loved him, 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.840 and that he, you know, would have been a good father, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.520 and the relationship with Kathy, and you know the things 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.160 that they saw that went wrong with Kathy, and obviously 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.199 Kathy's draw to Jam. 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:39.680 Well, Kathy cheated on Ted golder with Jam and even 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.440 when she was married to Ted, she cheated on him 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.440 with Jam. Yes, I can't even imagine the emotions of 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.960 talking to this woman who at one point was your aunt. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:51.800 What else did she tell you? 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.160 Okay, so a couple of things that she told me 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.439 in the conversation that we had was one she said, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:03.640 you know, I saw your mother, Kathy and the newspaper once. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.160 And I thought she was referencing the trials that she 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.520 saw Kathy maybe in the newspaper during the trials, And 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.559 I said really, and she said, yeah, she had two 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.160 broken legs and a broken arm, so she was almost 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:19.520 in a body cast. And it occurred to me like 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.880 I remembered two broken arms, two broken legs, right, And 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.800 I was like, oh, yeah, that was a suicide attempt. 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.320 And she said, oh, I didn't know that because in 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:30.600 the paper they didn't say that. 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.040 Yes, that's a story that you told both on the 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:38.439 podcast and in the documentary of Kathy putting you in 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.760 a seat on the balcony and then jumping off in 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:46.520 front of you and not dying, but breaking both arms 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:47.320 and both legs. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.320 She sat me on, just sat me on the porch 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:56.720 and then jumped off, and my memory was that she 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.720 broke both arms and both legs, but it was both 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.160 legs and an arm, and I thought that was really 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.040 ironic that there's this picture out there in nineteen seventy 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:11.640 two of her in this cast you know of this 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.800 event that you know this directly relinked to this memory 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.560 that I have. Another thing that she told me was 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:25.000 my younger brother, Jason, was actually in kindergarten or the 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.800 first grade, I can't remember which with one of her boys, 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.880 and she said, Jason came to school one day and said, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:41.360 my father is in prison and he killed my little brother, 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.120 and when he gets out, I'm going to kill him. Now, 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.280 the relevance of this is is that that would have 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:53.440 made Jason about seven, so I would have been around twelve. 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.439 Now that's when Kathy started, like openly she had been 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.640 around eleven or twelve, openly telling me Jan did it? 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.880 Jane killed him? Jan is that whatever? You know? It 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:07.520 was just this confirmation to me. 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.199 I guess I would have thought, then, why didn't Kathy 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.319 go to the authorities or even pam Ted Goulder's sister 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.040 who you spoke to. Did she consider going to the authorities, 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.360 because after all, it was her nephew. 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:26.440 I think that everybody thought that there was something wrong 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:31.000 with a whole lot of things in that county and 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.920 surrounding counties. Not to be cryptic, but I think that 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.719 there was a whole lot of homicides and crimes that 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.920 were suspicious. And I think a lot of people thought 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.080 there were a lot of things that were wrong and mishandled. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.840 And that is in connection with jan Sandlin. Even in 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.720 Pam's letters, she says, I think he killed his first wife, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.880 Nancy Tegetter. That was the case where it was determined 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:03.640 to be a suicide, except that how did Nancy Tagatter 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.280 wrap herself up in sheets after she shot herself? And 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.200 why would a pregnant woman commit suicide by shooting herself 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.559 in the stomach. It made no sense whatsoever. And also 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.960 William David Corn, that's another case that Jane has been 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:24.760 associated with. William David Korn was a police officer, and 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.720 the latest thing that we found in our research was 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.000 that it's possible that William David Korn was having an 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.840 affair with Nancy Tagatter and that's why they both ended 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:36.280 up dead. 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:37.200 Well. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:44.040 I recently was told that Nancy was dating a police officer, 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.840 but the name was never said, so I don't know 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.440 who who the police officer was, but that she was 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.040 dating a police officer, but that person had no idea 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:54.280 who the police officer was. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.440 So well, the police always had their suspicions about Jan's 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:01.640 involvement in these two deaths. Did you ever hear stories 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.440 about that while you were growing up? 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:09.080 So as a child, over and over again, I had 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:14.360 heard that Jan killed Nancy. He came to her afterwards 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.840 that he killed a police officer, and they drove to 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.240 Alabama and threw the gun in a lake. And that's 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.080 what drove me to, you know, to Cab County for 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.840 the first time, to pull that incident report. No, actually 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.520 to pull a police report. And all there was was 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.080 an incident report. Now I was very young and didn't understand, 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.840 but I understood enough to say, this is all there is. 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:43.120 Like it didn't make any sense to me. So when I, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.200 you know, first got Jim maybe on the phone and 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:51.240 talked to him. He was my angel, he was my savior. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.720 He's the very first person who said I will get 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.600 this done. He said, send me a letter, and then 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.240 I sent him a letter outlining all of that didn't 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.200 know who the police officer was at that time, but 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.160 that exact phrase that she said over and over, that's 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.600 what I sent him. And the thing was, he knew 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.560 all of that, and he knew Jan Sandlin, and he 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.120 says that's why he took that case and it. 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:16.080 Was so helpful. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:16.360 Right. 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:26.520 He suspected Jan Sandlin from day one. Tracy Raquel, We've 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.560 received quite a few questions about this story, and one 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.960 in particular involves you changing your name from Tracy to 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.400 Tracy Riquel. Do you want to address that. 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.200 Yes, So let's just back up a little bit. And 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.200 this is very complicated, but we'll back up. When I 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:48.560 started school first grade, my name is Tracy Sandlin, and 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.800 I went through school as Tracy Sandlin because that's who 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.800 Cathy was with even when she wasn't with him. Now, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.240 at twelve or thirteen years old, I needed a birth 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:07.320 certificate for something and social Security card and she hesitated, 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:12.160 like you wouldn't believe, beat around the bush for weeks 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.160 till it finally was unavoidable. And the reason was because 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.959 on my birth certificate she was married to Ted Golder 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.480 when I was born, and on my birth certificate my 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:29.880 name was Golder. So I've got eight years of school 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.240 records that are not legal. Had to go to a 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.399 judge and the judge asked me, what name do you want? 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.000 So I went to the name that was on my 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:45.600 birth certificate, Golder, not to mention it was match same 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:48.480 and that makes sense, and I didn't want anything to 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:54.400 do with jam changed everything. So now legally my name 0:17:54.480 --> 0:18:00.200 is Tracy Raquel Golder. Now we fast forward to I'm 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:05.000 in my twenties speaking to Ted Golder and he wants 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.199 to do this paternity test. 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:10.920 He called on the. 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:17.080 Phone and he said, well the results came back, then 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:22.320 you're not my daughter. And he said, you're a very 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:28.280 nice woman. You're lovely. I wish you all the best, 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.399 but I can't have anything to do with you, and 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.400 I would like it if you no longer use my name. 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:46.919 So I didn't when it was necessary. Raquel became my 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:47.800 last name. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:57.439 And then when I got married, my first name became 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:02.879 Tracy Rikel. And it was very important to me that 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.199 my first name be Tracey Raquel because it's all I have. 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.600 And so that's why it is so important to me. 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:16.480 That's my name and it's all I have. Now it 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.200 wasn't so upset to setting to me that I wasn't 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.679 his daughter. It hurt my feelings that he said I 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.199 don't want anything to do with you, you know, But 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:32.159 what was really upsetting to me was that this and 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.159 I understand, you know that it's a piece of symbolism, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.600 What was really upsetting to me was that it, you know, 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.040 he sort of verbally took this connection that I had 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:48.280 to Matthew a way. And you know what, when I 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.800 spoke with his sister, I told her because I said, 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:52.960 you know, i'm gonna explain this on the podcast because 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.280 a lot of people have asked why you know the name? 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.520 And I said, you know, I don't want to hurt 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.440 your feeling, but and I'm sorry, I'm going to tell 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.760 she said. After I told her, she said, you know what, 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.040 it sounds like something he would have done. And I said, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:07.360 I don't know if he just had a knee jerk 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.439 reaction or if he was just mad or whatever. And 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:10.560 she said, you know, I'm. 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.560 Sorry, it sounds like a very nice person. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:14.720 Yeah, And I you know, and I never spoke to 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.320 him again, but I am the kind of person that 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.199 if you asked me not to do something I'm not 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:21.760 going to ever do. 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.679 It tracea raquel. It took me a couple of years 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.840 to get you to agree to tell your story. You 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.879 didn't want the attention, but you did have a motive 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.840 for finally participating in the docu series. You want to 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:34.480 share that with. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.520 Us, so I wrote some notes down. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.320 Of course, by all means, I know this isn't easy, 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.439 So tell us what made you decide you needed to 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:46.840 do this. 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:50.720 Matthew is a part of me, and it's important that 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.359 I show my love for him. I believe that his 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.119 remains laid in his little casket waiting for me, and 0:20:58.200 --> 0:20:59.640 I thank him. 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:02.000 So much for that. 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.080 I did this also because I wanted to bring awareness 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.040 to the spectrum of child abuse that happens in homes, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:19.160 both seen and unseen. But there's something else. I don't 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.440 believe the full extent of justice has been served. I've 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:27.560 always felt an obligation deeply to the family of the 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.080 other victims of Jan, in part because of the information 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:37.000 that was told to me over and over as a child. Also, 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.639 other families have experienced profound loss because of Jan. I 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.280 don't want to be cryptic, but if you follow this 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:48.840 story closely, it will become clear that the same system 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:54.000 in nineteen seventy through seventy two that classified Matthew's death 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:58.800 as an accident has failed to properly address other acts 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:03.760 of violence that deserve attention. My hope is that people 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:08.280 will start having conversations about this, and I truly believe 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.520 that they have and I've seen that they are. 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:16.439 Well, that was beautifully said before we wrap up. I 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.120 know there's something else you want to clear up. 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.119 You know what y'all might think this is silly. In 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.600 the docu series, I did say I didn't do anything wrong, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.359 and that's not true. I did violate seaquestration, even if 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.879 it was walking by and pausing for thirty seconds and 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.840 seeing her. I violated seaquestration and I knew that at 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:39.919 the time, you know, I mean I might not have 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.760 stopped and watched the program and recorded it and did 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.560 all this stuff. But I want to say, yes, I 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.240 know I did that. Can we say that in the podcast? 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.399 Can I say I did I violated seaquestration? Do you 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:55.080 think it matters or do you think anyone cares? 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:55.760 Or well? 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.240 I think if you care, then that's what matters. I mean, 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.480 that's always been our attitude towards the story. If it 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.800 means something to you, it means something to us. 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.520 And then what you don't know is that there were 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.960 two more trials, right and every time I got on 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:15.320 the stand, the judge turned to the jury and told 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:22.160 them basically that I was dishonest because I had violated sequestration. 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.600 And what everybody fails to realize is that then I 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.840 had to leave the court room with this massive amount 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:32.080 of press and the news everywhere going that girl who 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:35.760 brought the case it failed it and brought it like 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:37.520 you know, and it was all over the news about 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:39.679 how I, you know what, I failed it, how I 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:41.719 blew it up, and you know, I mean it was 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:47.479 mass humiliation, like it was just horrifying, you know, And 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:48.760 then what do you have to do? You have to 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.119 I'm begging them to bring the case back, and then 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.080 you got to swallow your pride two months later just 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:54.960 go back in there and do it again. 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:56.639 So I'm just going to say what I've said to 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.520 you one hundred times, thank you, thank you, thank you 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:02.080 for sharing your story and for beeting you. 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:05.840