WEBVTT - Rush Interviews Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice

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<v Speaker 1>I'm really happy to introduce to you Secretary of State

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<v Speaker 1>KNDA Liza Rice, who joins us from from Washington. The

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<v Speaker 1>last time I spoke to you, Madam Secretary, was during

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<v Speaker 1>the two thousand presidential campaign. So it's long overdue, but

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to the program here. Well, it's great to be

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<v Speaker 1>with you Russia. I can't believe it's been that long.

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<v Speaker 1>Time flies when you're good, good, good time. Look, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to get straight to this because I know your

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<v Speaker 1>time is limited. The press conference today the President had

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<v Speaker 1>about the congressional legislation he wants Democrats opposed. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>trying to draw you into political questions here. The rest

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<v Speaker 1>assured you've got the three Republicans McCain and Warner and

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<v Speaker 1>UH and Lindsay Graham joining the Democrats opposing this. Secretary

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<v Speaker 1>Powell wrote Senator McCain a letter that McCain is publicized.

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<v Speaker 1>You have responded in a letter to Secretary Warner. What

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<v Speaker 1>did you say? Well, in fact, I sent the letter

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<v Speaker 1>before I had seen a Secretary Pell's letter. I My

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<v Speaker 1>letter simply stated the Department of States position, which is

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<v Speaker 1>at UH the interpretation of a US treaty obligation through

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<v Speaker 1>US law is something that we do frequently and all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. We're not trying to change what's called Common

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<v Speaker 1>Article free. We're not trying to UH to weaken it.

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<v Speaker 1>We just want our professionals to have clarity so that

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<v Speaker 1>they know what is legal and what is not. And

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<v Speaker 1>I have absolutely no problem defending what the President has

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<v Speaker 1>asked the Congress to do. When I go internationally, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it only makes sense that you would not leave

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<v Speaker 1>UH a very unclear standard like that of Common Article three,

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<v Speaker 1>which talks about outrages on human on human dignity, for

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<v Speaker 1>instance Rush. You don't want to leave that to unaccountable

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutors for instance, internationally. You want US law to defend,

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<v Speaker 1>to define that, Madam Secretary, People like me don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>the substance of this. UH. We see pictures of people

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<v Speaker 1>jumping out the World Trade Center on nine eleven this week,

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<v Speaker 1>we we remember the videotapes of the kind of treatment

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<v Speaker 1>American and foreign hostages receive at the hands of our

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<v Speaker 1>enemy when when in their captivity. I don't understand the

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<v Speaker 1>effort on the part of those who opposed this in

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<v Speaker 1>Congress to try to establish a moral equivalency between the

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<v Speaker 1>way we treat prisoners and the way our enemy does,

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<v Speaker 1>and to suggest that, uh, we can't do something here

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<v Speaker 1>because it might incite them to be even meaner to us.

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<v Speaker 1>Could you help me and others like me understand the

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<v Speaker 1>common sense of opposing this. I can't, I can't get

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<v Speaker 1>my arms around it. Well, Rush, I have to say,

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<v Speaker 1>I think I don't quite understand either, why we would

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<v Speaker 1>not give the the professionals, our professionals a clear standard

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<v Speaker 1>so that they know that they are obeying the law.

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<v Speaker 1>These are people who take tremendous risks to try and

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<v Speaker 1>defend us. Uh. They have made tremendous trades in getting

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<v Speaker 1>information from people like collegue Chech Mohammed who planned nine eleven,

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<v Speaker 1>from people like Ramsey Ben al Sheep, who you saw

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<v Speaker 1>on that videotape with al Qaeda just a few days

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<v Speaker 1>ago crowing about September eleven. They have made great strides

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<v Speaker 1>in getting information from these people that have prevented other attacks,

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<v Speaker 1>and by the way, not just prevented attacks here in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States, but prevented attacks in other parts of

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<v Speaker 1>the world too. To have a piece of legislation that

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<v Speaker 1>does not protect them and does not give them a

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<v Speaker 1>clear legal standard I think is simply wrong. Um, do

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<v Speaker 1>you find yourself in a in a in an uncomfortable circumstance,

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<v Speaker 1>what with the secretary Eparty leaving aside the apparent lack

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<v Speaker 1>of loyalty that exists in his letter. Do you find

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<v Speaker 1>it like I have the New York Senatorial here showdown

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<v Speaker 1>or headline rather show down set between Rice and Powell.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think this is descending into something personal? No? No,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't see it that way. Colin Powell is a

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<v Speaker 1>private citizen. He can have his views, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's the nature of our great democracy. He's a well

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<v Speaker 1>respected private citizen. It's my responsibility now to help defend

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. It's my responsibility now to defend American

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<v Speaker 1>policies abroad and to try through diplomacy to make us safer.

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<v Speaker 1>And I am quite confident that UH, the United States

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<v Speaker 1>UH can both get the information that it needs and

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<v Speaker 1>live up to our treaty obligations, and that the legislation

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<v Speaker 1>that the President has proposed does exactly that. At his

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<v Speaker 1>press conference today he introduced something new. UH. Basically, if

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<v Speaker 1>I if I understand it right, the President said, if

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<v Speaker 1>he doesn't get what he wants, if there's not clarity

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<v Speaker 1>defining and specifying the the vagaries and ambiguities of common

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<v Speaker 1>Article three. He said the program will not go forward,

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<v Speaker 1>and I interpreted that to mean he'll scrap it. And

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<v Speaker 1>he's he's not going to put our professionals as you

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<v Speaker 1>refer to them, in any kind of precarious circumstances if

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<v Speaker 1>they don't go along with what he wants, he'll scrap

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<v Speaker 1>the whole program. And I assume that means the focus

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<v Speaker 1>of attention on the lack of the program existing from

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<v Speaker 1>that point forward will be on Congress. Well, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>very strongly is does the President that these men and

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<v Speaker 1>women who go out and do this, this difficult and

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<v Speaker 1>dangerous work, deserve clarity about the legal ground on which

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<v Speaker 1>they're standing. And uh, I don't think that you will

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<v Speaker 1>get people who will actually participate in this program if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't get that kind of clarity, So you won't

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<v Speaker 1>have a program. And it would be unfortunate because we

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<v Speaker 1>have learned a lot from this program. We have prevented

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<v Speaker 1>attacks Russia. Information is the long pole in the tent

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<v Speaker 1>in the fight against terrorists. If you wait until a

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<v Speaker 1>terrorists has committed his act, then three thousand people die.

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<v Speaker 1>What you want to do is to prevent them. And

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<v Speaker 1>the only way that you can prevent them is to

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<v Speaker 1>know what they're thinking, to know what they're planning, to

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<v Speaker 1>know what they're plotting. And this program has been essential

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<v Speaker 1>in helping us to find that out. Madam, the Secretary

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<v Speaker 1>of the average American understands this. This is uh, this

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<v Speaker 1>is UH. It's not it's not complicated, and it's that's

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<v Speaker 1>why so many people understand the actions of those in

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<v Speaker 1>the President's party who are attempting to to halt this.

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<v Speaker 1>They're thinking, there's got to be something behind the scenes

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<v Speaker 1>that matters more than just the specific of this. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not I'm not asking you to address that. I know

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<v Speaker 1>your time is limited, and I have one more question

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<v Speaker 1>for you, and I assure you I'm asking this solely

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<v Speaker 1>from the from the position of wanting to learn and

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<v Speaker 1>wanting to understand. And I want to go back to

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<v Speaker 1>the recent um war between the Hesbalah and Israeli forces. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems that that when it comes to Israel and

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<v Speaker 1>their fight against terrorists, cease fires and resolutions are the

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<v Speaker 1>rule of the day, even though they really haven't worked

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<v Speaker 1>in ceasing these hostilities and bringing about peace. They just

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<v Speaker 1>bring interruptions to it. Yet when we are fighting terrorists, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't tell ourselves to cease fire and negotiate with them.

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<v Speaker 1>What what is it about the paradigm of the Middle

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<v Speaker 1>East that requires the fight against terrorism they're befought differently

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<v Speaker 1>than the way we're fighting it against us. Well, I

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<v Speaker 1>would think of it a little a little differently. Rush

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<v Speaker 1>what we What you have there is you have a

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<v Speaker 1>Lebanese government that wants to fight terror, and that is

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<v Speaker 1>the beginnings of a democratic government that could be could

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<v Speaker 1>be actually a partner for Israel in fighting terror. And

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<v Speaker 1>so the ceasefire was really with the Lebanese government, and

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<v Speaker 1>now we're trying to help the Lebanese government deal with

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<v Speaker 1>the effects of a hispola that launched that attack without

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<v Speaker 1>leban and even knowing I think of it the following way.

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<v Speaker 1>We are fighting terror in Iraq, but we're doing it

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<v Speaker 1>with an Iraqi government. We are fighting terror in Afghanistan

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<v Speaker 1>and we're doing it with an Afghan government. So the

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<v Speaker 1>way to think about what happened in Lebanon is that

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to fight terror, but we need to do

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<v Speaker 1>it with a Lebanese government that is devoted to fighting

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<v Speaker 1>terror So um, I think with the from our point

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<v Speaker 1>of view, there isn't any difference. No terrorists can be

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<v Speaker 1>uh supported or understood or negotiated with. What you can

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<v Speaker 1>do is to find moderate governments, moderate leaders in those

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<v Speaker 1>countries that are suffering from terrorism themselves and enlist them

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<v Speaker 1>in the fight to help defeat terrorists. Is Lebanon really

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<v Speaker 1>serious about this? I mean if if if the if

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<v Speaker 1>the Hasbata group was able to attack without even the

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<v Speaker 1>government of Lebanon knowing it, then what good does the

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<v Speaker 1>ceasefire with the government of Lebanon do. Well, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to strengthen that government. It's a weak government and it

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<v Speaker 1>but it is getting stronger. It's finally deployed its military

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<v Speaker 1>forces throughout its whole country for the first time in

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<v Speaker 1>more than three decades. And uh, this is a government

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<v Speaker 1>that came to power when the extremist assassinated the reformist

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<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister of Lebanon, Rafik Hariri. And so this is

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<v Speaker 1>a government that comes from the right set of values

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<v Speaker 1>and the right set of principles. It's just not not

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<v Speaker 1>very strong. We're trying to help build it up, build

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<v Speaker 1>up its security forces. But when We've done that in

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<v Speaker 1>Lebanon and in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And indeed, if

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<v Speaker 1>we can find that kind of government government in the

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<v Speaker 1>Palestinian territories, having those strong moderate forces to help you

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<v Speaker 1>fight terror, indigenous forces to help you find fight terror

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<v Speaker 1>is extremely important. Okay. So the theory is that terrorists

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<v Speaker 1>will gravitate to UH areas where there are no states,

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<v Speaker 1>where there are no governments, but they like they did

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<v Speaker 1>Afghanistan and UH and the and Somalia exactly, and so

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<v Speaker 1>you have you have to build up governments that can

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<v Speaker 1>prevent that from happening. And it's hard. They're allied with us.

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<v Speaker 1>These these are governments, they are allied with us. It's

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard work. They're they're sacrificing to UH. There was

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<v Speaker 1>an attempt on the life of the Deputy Interior Minister

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<v Speaker 1>of of Lebanon just a few days ago, so they're

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<v Speaker 1>sacrificing too. But these are these are really good partners.

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<v Speaker 1>We just have to build them up and help them

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<v Speaker 1>to fight the terrorists in their midst before you go

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<v Speaker 1>are there days you wish that you could have become

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<v Speaker 1>the commissioner the National Football League. I love it that

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<v Speaker 1>you're a football fan. Oh yes, of course they're as

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<v Speaker 1>I wish I could. Oh. Look, I love what I'm doing. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's uh, I'm really lucky to be here at

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<v Speaker 1>this particular point in time. But at some point I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to want to go to put to one of

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<v Speaker 1>my first loves, which is well, let me there are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of Americans who are thrilled that you're there too,

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<v Speaker 1>because they understand the battle you have with with a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of career people in the State Department who are

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<v Speaker 1>there before the administration got there. And and uh, you

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<v Speaker 1>bring a comforting staff to a lot of people. But

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<v Speaker 1>the way you conduct yourself in the in the office.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a favorite NFL team or you Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I do. Let me just say Russia. I want you to.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to say one thing. I really do

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<v Speaker 1>like being secretary. I've got a great team here, a

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<v Speaker 1>great group of people and uh, career and professional. They're

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<v Speaker 1>working hard, and people are serving in places like Baghdad

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<v Speaker 1>and Cobble, sometimes without their family, always without their families.

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<v Speaker 1>They're good folks. But in a in a couple of years,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be glad to go. And yes, I have a

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<v Speaker 1>favorite NFL team, The Cleveland Browns Cleveland. We'll manage to

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<v Speaker 1>let Reggie Bush have a great rookie the first game.

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<v Speaker 1>What a disappointing season you are headed for. Well, now

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<v Speaker 1>let's just let's just watch it. I'm a I'm a

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<v Speaker 1>Steelers fan. Oh I see anyway, I I appreciate your time.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to have conversations more often. It's very enlightening.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that rush. Let's let's let's let it be

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<v Speaker 1>too long. The next time we'll do that. Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>very much for your time today. Secretary of State Condole

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<v Speaker 1>is A. Rice