Speaker 1: You were listening to the Miami Dolphins podcast Network. This
Speaker 1: is Drivetime with Travis Winfield. Back to throw to a
Speaker 1: looking at a wide dolphan touchdop, cleric kill, unbelievable. Just
Speaker 1: flue fire for the second time to know where he
Speaker 1: was going right away ahead of that the man I
Speaker 1: want to help you soon up on his man away wattle,
Speaker 1: waddle to a shotgut back to throw looking us up fires,
Speaker 1: touchdop again, it's waddle, It's six touchdown paradown tea. Drivetime
Speaker 1: with Travis Winfield begins. Now let me check your pulse
Speaker 1: if you're not furt of what is up? Dolphins and
Speaker 1: welcome to the Drivetime Podcast, part of the Miami Dolphins
Speaker 1: podcast network, covering your team, your Miami Dolphins. How's it
Speaker 1: going everybody? I am your host, Travis Wingfield. And on
Speaker 1: today's show, draft Prep begin here on the Drivetime Podcast,
Speaker 1: We're gonna welcome in Matt Waldman of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio,
Speaker 1: one of the best in the business. He does skill
Speaker 1: players on offense, so we're talking all things wide receivers,
Speaker 1: tight ends, and running backs on this edition of the podcast.
Speaker 1: From somewhere in South Florida, This is the Drivetime Podcast
Speaker 1: maya Gaffe Fish. The calendar has turned to April. The
Speaker 1: masters is this weekend. Baseball has opened up much of
Speaker 1: the chagrin of a one in three start for the
Speaker 1: Ciallo Manors, but hey, Julio Rodriguez is off to a
Speaker 1: hot start. But it also means the most important thing
Speaker 1: on the calendar the NFL Draft coming up in just
Speaker 1: a few weeks. The defense have a couple of picks
Speaker 1: on Day two, couple of picks on Day three. We
Speaker 1: will go ahead and jump into what that might look like,
Speaker 1: but more importantly, just talk about this class and get
Speaker 1: you guys educated on what's potentially there, the strongest points
Speaker 1: in terms of position groups in those class, and where
Speaker 1: Miami could be looking with each potential pick at those
Speaker 1: spot in terms of strength, team fit, all that fun stuff.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna have a slew of expert guests on
Speaker 1: here to help us get familiar with the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: three NFL Draft class. And we're gonna start today with
Speaker 1: someone that I'm pretty pumped up to have. I haven't
Speaker 1: had him on my podcast before. He did do our
Speaker 1: Twitter Spaces show last spring. A guys, I've been reading
Speaker 1: for over a decade now, which he'll hear in the
Speaker 1: interview Matt Waldman of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio. He is
Speaker 1: a refreshing draft mind in the industry that sometimes to
Speaker 1: me can get a little bit bogged down with cookie
Speaker 1: cutter type of regurgitation, I think is the way I
Speaker 1: put that. So Matt Waldman does not do that. He
Speaker 1: gave us great insight last year on Skylar Thompson before
Speaker 1: he was drafted, which was really cool to hear, great
Speaker 1: insight on eric As Zuokama. He just knows all the
Speaker 1: players from rounds one through seven and even Udfa, So
Speaker 1: I thought, what a valuable resource to get on the
Speaker 1: podcast here Miami. Going into this draft, we brought the
Speaker 1: entire running back room back. We have the receiver room
Speaker 1: which looks pretty good, but there's a spot or two
Speaker 1: that for a guy that could be drafted, and then
Speaker 1: of course a tight end position. As we talk on
Speaker 1: this podcast, just three players in the roster had five
Speaker 1: on opening day last year. So some potential options I
Speaker 1: think at those positions to add in this year's draft class,
Speaker 1: as there is every year at every position. But without
Speaker 1: further ado, why don't we go ahead and welcome in
Speaker 1: the expert on all those things, all things skill players,
Speaker 1: Matt Waldman. And I'm thrilled to be joined today by
Speaker 1: someone who's work that I have followed for quite some time.
Speaker 1: He is Matt Waldman, the creator of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio.
Speaker 1: He focuses on the skill players. That's the offensive side
Speaker 1: of the football, and that's the side of the ball
Speaker 1: we're doing today regarding the twenty twenty three NFL Draft.
Speaker 1: So Matt, welcome in, sir, Hey Travis, it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I let him with that intro, Matt,
Speaker 1: because I first found your work, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: back in twenty twelve, and I remember it being so
Speaker 1: much different than what I would consider at the time
Speaker 1: cookie cutter draft content that I think, you know, most
Speaker 1: people had to sift through back at that time because
Speaker 1: draft Twitter and the draft coverage hadn't exploded the way
Speaker 1: I think it has in the last decade at that time,
Speaker 1: and it's even more so the case nowadays. But we'll
Speaker 1: get into that here in a moment. But it was
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty twelve draft. The Dolphins needed a quarterback.
Speaker 1: The quarterback market was bustling that year, both in free
Speaker 1: agency and the draft. You had Peyton Manning and Matt
Speaker 1: Flynn was a big ticket at him before he assigned
Speaker 1: the contract in Seattle, and then you had Andrew Luck
Speaker 1: RG three, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Whedon, Russell Wilson, and who
Speaker 1: could forget the Super Bowl MVP of that group, Nick Foles.
Speaker 1: But anyway, you broke down tannehills game in a way
Speaker 1: that was so different to me at the time, and
Speaker 1: everybody wanted to say that this guy needs reps. He
Speaker 1: was a converted wide receiver, which wasn't the case he was.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a different topic, different day. But you
Speaker 1: went more in depth and showed us how he won
Speaker 1: from the pocket, how he anticipated, and how he was
Speaker 1: absolutely worthy of being not just the top ten pick,
Speaker 1: but the eighth pick in the draft that year. So
Speaker 1: it's a very long way to lead into asking you
Speaker 1: about the genesis of the rookie scouting portfolio. Did it
Speaker 1: come to be and how did it, I guess, get
Speaker 1: to where it is today. Well, sure, I was an
Speaker 1: operations manager and a quality director for about a ten thousand,
Speaker 1: ten thousand employee company and really what I had specialized
Speaker 1: in was training people and working with others in a
Speaker 1: way where that we could take a system and evaluate
Speaker 1: individuals on criteria that isn't necessarily objective, but to try
Speaker 1: and make it as objective as possible so that you
Speaker 1: could get people to be more productive and understand these things.
Speaker 1: And I got certified in a lot of techniques in
Speaker 1: terms of how to create evaluation systems, how to implement them,
Speaker 1: how to continuously improve them. And I was always a
Speaker 1: big football fan, and I had done some freelance writing
Speaker 1: in my life over the years, and I just thought
Speaker 1: one day reading Gil Brandt talk about a running back
Speaker 1: who was five nine two oh five and if he
Speaker 1: were a couple inches taller ten pounds, he would have
Speaker 1: been a top five overall pick, And as someone who
Speaker 1: worked in corporate America, it all kind of clicked to go,
Speaker 1: I get it. What draft capital is isn't necessarily all
Speaker 1: about talent. It's about what's safe sometimes, because at five nine,
Speaker 1: two hundred and five pound back had two ACL tears,
Speaker 1: couldn't got his scholarship dropped at FSU, went to Villanova,
Speaker 1: and then wound up being with the Philadelphia Eagles and
Speaker 1: being an All Pro and Brian Westboro. You know, so
Speaker 1: I got really interested in all that and started implementing
Speaker 1: what I did for my living with creating a draft guide.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's been eighteen years now. This is
Speaker 1: my full time job now doing it, and in the
Speaker 1: RSP is now one of the two most purchased independent
Speaker 1: draft guides by scouts and personnel people in the NFL,
Speaker 1: according to people like Alex Brown, who's the director of
Speaker 1: recruiting for SMU and has worked at RICE as well
Speaker 1: as at Houston with Tom Herman and folks like that,
Speaker 1: and he deals with people every week who come in
Speaker 1: so that he could talk about the pros Bexany, sees
Speaker 1: what they're looking at, ask what they're looking at, and
Speaker 1: you know, and that's the that's the source who's told
Speaker 1: me that information. So it's been a fun journey, and
Speaker 1: you know, I take people through my process with the RSP,
Speaker 1: so it's really in depth, but I try to do
Speaker 1: it in an entertaining way, in an easy way to
Speaker 1: see everything. And because I've been running about fantasy football
Speaker 1: as well, I dovetail that in so it's kind of
Speaker 1: like I give separate like fantasy recommendations, but also show
Speaker 1: like real football, and so it's kind of captured an
Speaker 1: audience where I've got scouts who read the book and
Speaker 1: use it for cross checking, but I also have media
Speaker 1: and fantasy people who like it because I work at
Speaker 1: football guys dot Com as a senior staff writer, so
Speaker 1: they know that I can kind of switch between worlds.
Speaker 1: Did you know at the time that you were essentially
Speaker 1: creating a cross platform product that would basically hit and
Speaker 1: all the major all the major you know, players in
Speaker 1: this world, because it sounds like you really kind of
Speaker 1: hit the funnel perfectly with all of that. I was hoping,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, you know, it was the
Speaker 1: vision and then executing the reality were much different. I
Speaker 1: turned down a lot of opportunities early on to do
Speaker 1: some things where I could write for somebody else's draft guide,
Speaker 1: and they were at three letter or four letter networks,
Speaker 1: and then I was sitting in an empty house, you know,
Speaker 1: watching TV and seeing people I was going to be
Speaker 1: working with their working for that. I turned down doing
Speaker 1: national gigs and I thought, well, this better work. So
Speaker 1: it was you know, it's worked out very well for me,
Speaker 1: and I'm very very, very fortunate. And I was hoping
Speaker 1: that I could do something that was heavy on content,
Speaker 1: light on the bells and whistles, and it's worked out
Speaker 1: that way. But I, you know, I was hopeful, but
Speaker 1: I didn't think it would work out as smoothly as
Speaker 1: it has. That's why I love talking about these stories
Speaker 1: because it was it was somewhat similar for me. I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounds like you took, you know, what you learn
Speaker 1: from your professional life and then took what you were
Speaker 1: curious and interested in and kind of combined the two
Speaker 1: and made, you know, made a job out of it.
Speaker 1: And that's essentially what what I did in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways with the birth of NFL Game Pass. And
Speaker 1: I was so fascinated by the idea of going back
Speaker 1: and trying to kind of reconfigure the idea of how
Speaker 1: we view quarterback play. And I did so many projects
Speaker 1: I thought were bad after the fact, but also had
Speaker 1: some stuff that was pretty good that got me in
Speaker 1: a position where I started to understand tap more and
Speaker 1: things like that. So it's it always fascinates me. I
Speaker 1: think the audience that I have here is fascinated by
Speaker 1: it too, because you know, podcasting it's about the content
Speaker 1: is certainly, but also the person that's behind the microphone,
Speaker 1: and I think it's a big part of the intimacy
Speaker 1: you build on a podcast. But before we get into
Speaker 1: this class here, I wanted to ask you this last
Speaker 1: thing about the scouting you know, the scouting world as
Speaker 1: it is currently and kind of how you view it, because,
Speaker 1: like you said, you know, you're you're on the radar
Speaker 1: of not just fantasy fans, but you know, people in
Speaker 1: the league and people are on the you know, the
Speaker 1: scouting cogniscente as it were. But I'm curious because we
Speaker 1: get this, this this new wave of I guess social
Speaker 1: media that produces draft takes, and that wasn't always the
Speaker 1: case because the draft used to be this really niche,
Speaker 1: you know, thing that people covered and if you wanted
Speaker 1: to find out about it, you had to kind of
Speaker 1: dig into the animals of the uh of the animals
Speaker 1: of the internet and or the other sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: when it comes to some of these social media outlets. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: there we go. I almost just let it go and
Speaker 1: and didn't know and didn't come back to it. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna make sure that kid's taken out there. But
Speaker 1: um no, so I just you know, you didn't have
Speaker 1: a chance to really to get everyone's opinion on the stuff.
Speaker 1: And I feel like now it's it's almost become inundated
Speaker 1: with this, like, oh, I saw two clips of a
Speaker 1: guy on Twitter, so I have a take and if
Speaker 1: you if you draft that guy, I'm gonna be mad
Speaker 1: about it. Do you notice that and does it does
Speaker 1: it ever bother you? Or how do you kind of
Speaker 1: try to combat I guess what has become modern? I
Speaker 1: guess amateur scouting a lot of ways, even though you're
Speaker 1: in the professional ranks of it, Like how do you
Speaker 1: how do you kind of navigate those waters? Well, it's
Speaker 1: always going to be frustrating when you see something on
Speaker 1: a day to day basis, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: you get you developed the perspective to understand this is
Speaker 1: that what are you trying to be? You know, if
Speaker 1: you're trying to be popular, then these types of things
Speaker 1: can be really frustrating, but you're but that's part of
Speaker 1: the popularity thing, is that you're trying to entertain more
Speaker 1: than you're trying to deliver long term, actionable, evergreen content.
Speaker 1: And when you're trying to but if you're trying to
Speaker 1: do that, then popularity is seen in a different light,
Speaker 1: and what you're trying to do is to be able
Speaker 1: to formulate things where I guess the younger folks call
Speaker 1: it receipts, but like the true meaning of receipts, where
Speaker 1: you know, you can go onto your Twitter page and
Speaker 1: when everyone says that you were an idiot for ranking
Speaker 1: Nick Chubb above, say Quon Barkley, or that Justin Jefferson
Speaker 1: should be you should just wait for him instead of
Speaker 1: Jerry Judy and Ceedee Lamb and Denzel Mims or Patrick
Speaker 1: Mahomes actually is a far smarter quarterback than some of
Speaker 1: the ways people are saying that he is. And when
Speaker 1: you have things like that, you have complete scouting reports
Speaker 1: that you are able to put up there, it stands
Speaker 1: the test of time, and you get the perspective of
Speaker 1: that the type of people who are going to gravitate
Speaker 1: toward that aren't the type of people who are going
Speaker 1: to gravitate towards the I saw two plays and therefore
Speaker 1: you know, I stayed at the holiday and express and
Speaker 1: now I know everything you know type of thing. So
Speaker 1: it's it's just patience and putting out good work and
Speaker 1: having the perspective to know that the type of audience
Speaker 1: that's going to be gravitated to you, to you to
Speaker 1: your work. Is the type of audience you want to have.
Speaker 1: And if it means you have, you know, two thousand
Speaker 1: raving followers as opposed to two hundred thousand, then that's
Speaker 1: that's all the better because you know you're going to
Speaker 1: have a much better experience interacting with people as a whole.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the perspective I take. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: the perspective like that, Matt, that I think produces the
Speaker 1: good content. And I really appreciate that. And you know,
Speaker 1: I always see like the idea of branding or doing
Speaker 1: certain things for a certain reason. It's like, no, if
Speaker 1: you just if you just beat yourself and make good content,
Speaker 1: people tend to gravitate towards that. And I think that's
Speaker 1: probably what you found with you know, the RISP. It's
Speaker 1: it's like you said, it's spread really really wide at
Speaker 1: this point, very successful, and people like me sure love
Speaker 1: to get our hands on that. And that's why I
Speaker 1: wanted to have you on today and kind of start
Speaker 1: here with the skill groups. And I was thinking about
Speaker 1: how to best guide this in the Dolphins direction, and
Speaker 1: I think we'll start at the tight end position, just
Speaker 1: because if you look at the numbers of the roster,
Speaker 1: and this is like another trope, like you know, you
Speaker 1: have certain things you think you need and don't need,
Speaker 1: but teams don't typically draft that way. They usually take
Speaker 1: good players. That's the best way to draft, well, I think,
Speaker 1: but I think if you just look at the numbers
Speaker 1: on the Dolphins roster, they have three right now tight
Speaker 1: ends compared to five on opening day last year. We
Speaker 1: did get a Drham Smith extension earlier this week, but
Speaker 1: also I just keep hearing about how great this tight
Speaker 1: end class is best in the last decade. So I
Speaker 1: wanted to start there, Matt. And you know, we've seen
Speaker 1: tight end utilize and what has kind of become known
Speaker 1: as the Shanahan offense right at the Shanahan tree and
Speaker 1: all the branches off at offense. And we have one
Speaker 1: of those branches and the very bright Mike McDaniel down here,
Speaker 1: and perhaps no one was greater in that role than
Speaker 1: currently with George Kittle and San Francisco. And I was
Speaker 1: curious to first kind of get your take on the
Speaker 1: impact of a dual purpose tight end in this offense
Speaker 1: because Kittle, I think in a lot of ways makes
Speaker 1: that Niners offense go, do you agree? And how important
Speaker 1: is it to have a piece like that to maximize
Speaker 1: what this offense is at his core? I agree that
Speaker 1: it is. You know that Kittle was the guy to
Speaker 1: make that go. And you know, tight end as a whole,
Speaker 1: when we think of the all around play both in
Speaker 1: line and split outside and be a receiving threat type
Speaker 1: of tight end, they're very rare. I mean you basically
Speaker 1: they are unicorns. The past two are Rob Gronkowski and
Speaker 1: George Kittle, and both of them have dealt with injuries
Speaker 1: throughout because it's a practically impossible position to play in
Speaker 1: that way in today's NFL, even you know, because even
Speaker 1: in the past when you had Kellen Winslow or Ozzie
Speaker 1: News some those were receivers who were basically given a
Speaker 1: minimal amount of responsibility at the line. So for the
Speaker 1: Miami Dolphins, it would be ideal if they could find
Speaker 1: a player like that. And I think that there is
Speaker 1: maybe one who could possibly get to that level, maybe
Speaker 1: two or three that that'll get close. And but again
Speaker 1: we're talking about unicorn status. And then there's about seven
Speaker 1: or eight other players who if you use them more
Speaker 1: as h backs or you know exactly how you want
Speaker 1: to use them as blockers or as receivers. It might
Speaker 1: work well enough in McDaniel's offense, because in McDaniel's offense,
Speaker 1: the fact that they have the personnel that they do with,
Speaker 1: you know, with those two great receivers on the outside,
Speaker 1: is it necessary that they need him to be a
Speaker 1: man match up problem along the lines of Kittle or Kelsey,
Speaker 1: And I would argue that you don't need it to
Speaker 1: be quite that level. It would be nice, but maybe
Speaker 1: the priority is is you need a guy who can block,
Speaker 1: who can at least be someone who can do double
Speaker 1: teams on the front side or backside, be able to
Speaker 1: work across the formation and pull do some pulling blocks
Speaker 1: as well as doing some wine back blocks. And there
Speaker 1: are a number of guys in this class who can
Speaker 1: do that and also threaten the seam up the middle,
Speaker 1: off play action, run some over routes or crossing routes.
Speaker 1: And then it just depends on the flavor what you
Speaker 1: want there, you know. I mean, it's like there's maybe
Speaker 1: three different variations of chocolate type of flavors here that
Speaker 1: you might look at and go, do you want the
Speaker 1: guy who can stretch the seam win one on one
Speaker 1: on the outside, Or are you okay with the guy
Speaker 1: who's a little better of a blocker, but he's not
Speaker 1: going to beat cornerbacks, you know, detached outside on a
Speaker 1: regular basis. He's probably better off facing up linebackers in
Speaker 1: the occasional safety. Well, I think I think it's nice
Speaker 1: to have options and different flavors that you prefer in
Speaker 1: as class. And you've queued me up there for a
Speaker 1: perfect teaser. We're gonna go ahead and take our first
Speaker 1: break right here and come back on the other side.
Speaker 1: And I want to ask Matt, who is that one
Speaker 1: or two potential unicorns in this year's tight end class.
Speaker 1: That's next Draft Time podcast, Your host Travis Wingfield, my
Speaker 1: guest today, Matt Waldman, brought to you by Auto Nation.
Speaker 1: Back here on a Wednesday edition of the Draft Time Podcast.
Speaker 1: You heard Matt kind of lead into a potential not
Speaker 1: a secret. But I'm really dying to hear your answer
Speaker 1: on this. Who are those unicorns you're talking about in
Speaker 1: this tight end class? I have an idea who they
Speaker 1: might be, but I want to hear what your perspective
Speaker 1: is and then also tell me are they going to
Speaker 1: be gone by pick fifty one? How high do the
Speaker 1: tight ends going this year's class? Yeah, that's the big question.
Speaker 1: And for me, I'm much more of a how do
Speaker 1: they look and how would I grade them as opposed
Speaker 1: to where they I think they're gonna go. But I'll
Speaker 1: give my best shot on that the guy who fits
Speaker 1: that bill. He may not be the best tight end
Speaker 1: in this class ingrades for how I look at it,
Speaker 1: but he's close. And that's Luke's Schoonmacher. The tight end
Speaker 1: for Michigan maybe not getting as much love as some
Speaker 1: of the other players, but if you're looking for a
Speaker 1: guy who might be the best all around tight end,
Speaker 1: you know, he's an excellent inline blocker who can do
Speaker 1: all the work that you're looking for in the run
Speaker 1: game in terms of you know what he can do
Speaker 1: with different types of blocks. He can win with finesse,
Speaker 1: he can win with technique, he can win with power.
Speaker 1: He's someone that can deliver a punch, he can delivers
Speaker 1: a good strike, he gets good position, he moves his
Speaker 1: feet well. He can control all three levels of defenders
Speaker 1: with a variety of blocks, and you would expect that
Speaker 1: from a good Michigan tight end anyway, if you're even
Speaker 1: gonna go to the logo scouting kind of thing, but
Speaker 1: that's the receiving game. That's interesting because you can use
Speaker 1: him on a lot of a lot of the routes
Speaker 1: that you saw Jesseki used on the outlet plays over routes,
Speaker 1: seems up the zone against the safety or a linebacker,
Speaker 1: play action drag routes. He's certainly mobile enough to do that.
Speaker 1: He has the speed to stretch the seam, he has
Speaker 1: the acceleration to get early separation. And then what I
Speaker 1: liked about him most is he has all the elements
Speaker 1: to become a top route runner in the league. He
Speaker 1: can use stems to set up breaks. He has good
Speaker 1: hip flip for speed breaks. He often can get drop
Speaker 1: his weight into short stop routes. What we haven't seen
Speaker 1: him do is beat cornerbacks and safeties one on one.
Speaker 1: But at Michigan they really didn't employ him in that way,
Speaker 1: especially as good of a blocker as he was. But
Speaker 1: I think he has the athletic ability to do that,
Speaker 1: and if he does, you might be looking at the
Speaker 1: best tight end in this class. A certainly high praise.
Speaker 1: Not a name that you've seen. That's that's why I
Speaker 1: like your work, Matt, because it's not a name that
Speaker 1: you see, you know, plastered across everyone's top five, everyone's
Speaker 1: mock drafts in the first round. Just not someone that
Speaker 1: you're you're really getting with that type of content. So
Speaker 1: really cool to hear that. And then was there another
Speaker 1: one you potentially wanted to touch on? A potential unicorn
Speaker 1: that you might might think there is. I think that
Speaker 1: I think that the another potential unicorn in that is
Speaker 1: probably you know, there's two guys, but the guy that's
Speaker 1: the best is probably Dalton Kincaid. I mean Kincaid right
Speaker 1: now is more of an h back at two forty six.
Speaker 1: There's a lot that people say, well, he doesn't block
Speaker 1: well in line just yet, but you see the elements
Speaker 1: there with a punch, I think he's going to be
Speaker 1: able to add more weight to his frame and become,
Speaker 1: you know, to provide a little bit of a more
Speaker 1: solid anchor. But he's actually a much better blocker than
Speaker 1: people give credit for in certain situations where you can
Speaker 1: use him, and I think those situations where that will
Speaker 1: work out for him are really where he can lead
Speaker 1: on counter plays, where he can be a wind back blocker,
Speaker 1: quick hitting hook. He has, you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: elements like I said, to be to develop a wide
Speaker 1: stance and anchor just needs to get a little bit bigger.
Speaker 1: But he's a good stock blocker already. He's mobile, he's quick,
Speaker 1: and then when you add to the fact that he's
Speaker 1: simply one of the one of the two to three
Speaker 1: best receivers in this class, very dynamic with the ball
Speaker 1: above the rim, and not only is he good above
Speaker 1: the rim, but after the catch, he has a skill
Speaker 1: for being able to either make the first man miss
Speaker 1: or break the first tackle. And you don't see that
Speaker 1: a lot with a lot of tight ends, and he
Speaker 1: has that skill. He's much more in that hopeful to
Speaker 1: be around Travis Kelsey type of player that you can
Speaker 1: pull up to. And then Luke Musgrave. I'm not a
Speaker 1: huge fan of his receiving game, but he's good enough
Speaker 1: as a receiver with his speed to stretch the field.
Speaker 1: His blocking is very strong, he has a good punch,
Speaker 1: and he has good weight placement to really be able
Speaker 1: to anchor. And I think that there's enough there that
Speaker 1: he could possibly develop into a more all around tight end.
Speaker 1: But I need to see more with his routes for
Speaker 1: him to develop into that kind of matchup problem. But
Speaker 1: the speed is there, the hands are pretty much there.
Speaker 1: So he's an intriguing guy that I think might be
Speaker 1: there at pick fifty one, and I wouldn't be surprised
Speaker 1: if Michael Mayer falls a little bit. If he does
Speaker 1: fall to the second round, maybe the Dolphins are willing
Speaker 1: to trade up to get him if he's not quite
Speaker 1: at pick fifty one for them. But he may not
Speaker 1: be that high end route runner who can win matchups.
Speaker 1: But I think he's a better blocker than Jessecki turned into.
Speaker 1: I think he'll turn into a better blocker than that.
Speaker 1: And he's good one on one in zone or excuse me,
Speaker 1: in the red zone. And he's also good in zone
Speaker 1: coverage on contested plays where you can throw him open.
Speaker 1: He's just not a matchup guy like Alow the top
Speaker 1: guys are, but you know, would fit very well within
Speaker 1: what the Dolphins do. This is why it's so fascinating
Speaker 1: me because the question that comes to my mind instantly
Speaker 1: when we talk about all those different varieties and styles
Speaker 1: and and really skill sets, is that is there's so
Speaker 1: many good tight ends and different types that you might
Speaker 1: have the class kind of cannibalize itself in the sense
Speaker 1: that maybe guys don't come off the boars early because
Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, I like this tight end here at
Speaker 1: the back around one, but the gap there between him
Speaker 1: and tight end, you know, four whatever, Maybe isn't that
Speaker 1: stark whereas you know, an offensive tackle or whatever the
Speaker 1: case may be, for whatever team, do they maybe kind
Speaker 1: of cannibalize itself that way? And then the other question
Speaker 1: I had is kind of like a follow up to
Speaker 1: just the class in general and maybe kind of an
Speaker 1: off the you know, off the wall type of idea
Speaker 1: is you know, I was watching some Sam Laporta, the
Speaker 1: Iowa tight end, and so glad you mentioned him. I
Speaker 1: want to hear your take on him, rope, but I
Speaker 1: just want to kind of tell you my thought because
Speaker 1: it bleeds into the next thing I want to talk
Speaker 1: to you about with Eric Azukama, because I see, you know,
Speaker 1: the Texas Tech tape with Azukama and they threw him
Speaker 1: all these slip screens, a little bubbles and tunnels and
Speaker 1: just get the ball in his hands and guys bounce
Speaker 1: off of him as tacklers, right, and he runs for
Speaker 1: a bunch of yards after the catch. I see that
Speaker 1: in Sam Laporta's game, too, Like, is there a way
Speaker 1: to possibly use a player like that to, you know,
Speaker 1: get not just tight end production, but also a receiver production.
Speaker 1: So I gave you like eight questions there, Matt, I apologize,
Speaker 1: but I know that you can handle it well. First
Speaker 1: of all, I do think there's a chance that was
Speaker 1: certain there's going to be certain players that stand out,
Speaker 1: Like if you want a blocker, if you're looking for
Speaker 1: a blocker who can also catch and do the traditional
Speaker 1: tight end things, and Scoot Mocker may go a little earlier.
Speaker 1: It's just a certain team that really likes him. But
Speaker 1: then if you're looking at guys like you know and
Speaker 1: then Kinkaid will probably go off the board early. But
Speaker 1: after that you're looking at players who are essentially you
Speaker 1: know Laporta, Darnell Washington, Elijah Higgins if he's going to
Speaker 1: be a I end, the Stanford wide receiver, Luke Musgrave,
Speaker 1: you know, Tucker Craft. These are all guys who can
Speaker 1: do the screen game. You dump the ball off, you
Speaker 1: get them out in space, and they're going to be
Speaker 1: able to make plays for you. And then you're using
Speaker 1: them selectively as blockers, and a couple of them will grow,
Speaker 1: And of course mayor mayor fits in that kind of
Speaker 1: that schoon mucker type of deal. So I think there's
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if there's eight players at the
Speaker 1: tight end position who go between rounds one and four
Speaker 1: during the first four rounds. I think that can happen.
Speaker 1: I think though, that there are other players who are
Speaker 1: intriguing enough that you'll see a ton of them taken
Speaker 1: in the back half. The Porter, to me is a
Speaker 1: player I love, and he's he's actually my third on
Speaker 1: my board right now overall, and that's mainly because I
Speaker 1: value receiving a little bit more than blocking in terms
Speaker 1: of how I wait it, because I try to follow
Speaker 1: that Bill Belichick school. If you can find a blocker later,
Speaker 1: unless he's just a rare bird of a blocker who
Speaker 1: can also be competent in the receiving game. Laporta isn't
Speaker 1: a great blocker for what you would expect out of
Speaker 1: an Iowa tight end these days. But I look at
Speaker 1: it this way. The simplest way to say it is
Speaker 1: that if Evan Ingram didn't have the history of flaws,
Speaker 1: he did as a pass catcher and had a little
Speaker 1: about five more pounds on his frame. Sam Laporta is
Speaker 1: basically that guy. He's a better version of Evan Ingram
Speaker 1: coming out and he's the bet, to me, the better
Speaker 1: version of that of a guy who never made it
Speaker 1: because he had so many off field issues, but he
Speaker 1: was catching passes from Justin Herbert early in his career
Speaker 1: as coult Liarla, who was a fantastic prospect on the field.
Speaker 1: Off the field, different story. Sam Laporta is a really
Speaker 1: good pass catcher with riffic quickness. He's one of those
Speaker 1: make you miss break the tackle in the open field.
Speaker 1: Just smooth, smart, consistent hands, solid blocker. If you use
Speaker 1: him on the wing or use him as that second
Speaker 1: tight end on the backside, and you're not trying to
Speaker 1: feature him against players one on one where he's just
Speaker 1: not going to have a chance. But as a receiver,
Speaker 1: I would not be shocked at all if he turns
Speaker 1: into a Pro Bowl caliber receiver if he finds the
Speaker 1: right landing spot. I'm really intrigued by it all, and
Speaker 1: the fact that you talk about the different elements you
Speaker 1: can get late in the draft is certainly intriguing. As well.
Speaker 1: But those ball skills do seem to come off the
Speaker 1: board earlier and early. That's why receivers go so early,
Speaker 1: and we see some many receivers you know, have such
Speaker 1: good early parts of their NFL career. I want to
Speaker 1: come back on the other side of our last break
Speaker 1: here and talk to you about Dolphins wide receiver eric
Speaker 1: As Yukama and talk about this year's draft as well.
Speaker 1: Let's next Draft Time podcast. Your host Travis Wingfield, my
Speaker 1: guest Matt Wallman, brought you by Auto Nation. We left
Speaker 1: off segment number two on the podcast talking about wide
Speaker 1: receivers and tight ends and Matt, we saw Trent Sherfield
Speaker 1: exit via free agency. He was the third most targeted
Speaker 1: wide receiver on the team last year from Miami. So
Speaker 1: it's a role that has, I guess opened up a
Speaker 1: little bit beyond you know, the top two guys that
Speaker 1: get a lot of targets. And I was curious to
Speaker 1: ask you about Azzukama's opportunity to potentially fulfill that role.
Speaker 1: A guy that you were a big fan of last
Speaker 1: year coming out of the draft. What do you think
Speaker 1: about his game and how it translates into your number
Speaker 1: two here for the Miami Dolphins. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: I think it has a good chance to take another
Speaker 1: significant step forward in a similar way that I think
Speaker 1: where Chargers fans were excited about Josh Balmer. I think
Speaker 1: that a Zukama can be you know, the type of
Speaker 1: player that the Chargers hoping Palmer can become, you know,
Speaker 1: physical player. He had a more limited route tree entering
Speaker 1: the league, but he has all the tools you want
Speaker 1: to develop into high end contributors just a matter of
Speaker 1: you know, he has the bend you're looking for. He's
Speaker 1: good at being able to track the ball, he uses
Speaker 1: contests that he's good at position himself in contested situations.
Speaker 1: He's got the power you're you're looking at. It's just
Speaker 1: about being on the same page where you can read
Speaker 1: the zone coverages or the different hybrid coverages in the
Speaker 1: same manner that your quarterback can. And as long as
Speaker 1: you know, as long as he can have some continuity
Speaker 1: with the same quarterback and to a tonguele can stay healthy,
Speaker 1: then you're going to have an opportunity for him to
Speaker 1: grow into a bigger role. And I think it also
Speaker 1: just depends on, like you said earlier in our previous segment,
Speaker 1: whether or not as Zukanma as a blocker, and I
Speaker 1: think he can be physical enough whether they like him
Speaker 1: enough that he can play on the wing and do
Speaker 1: some work as kind of that H back unofficial type
Speaker 1: of H back, or a a player who's tight in
Speaker 1: the slot that can work and do some do some
Speaker 1: double teams, or do a little bit of blocking on
Speaker 1: safeties and outside linebackers in the league, or they decide
Speaker 1: they want to go with a tight end or draft
Speaker 1: two tight ends and do that, or they take a
Speaker 1: tight end like a Laporta and say, you know what,
Speaker 1: with Duram smythe we feel like we're okay with him
Speaker 1: in line, we can use Laporta outside. We can also
Speaker 1: then split them out and he could be kind of
Speaker 1: that player that ends up taking over for as Ukonoma.
Speaker 1: So I think the draft is going to be a
Speaker 1: big tell as to how likely as Zuconma gets that
Speaker 1: opportunity to take that next step without an injury. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I think that's you know, for both him and Channing Tendal,
Speaker 1: I would expect bigger roles and you're number two after
Speaker 1: kind of what was I wouldn't say a red shirt season.
Speaker 1: They both got some action but didn't play a whole
Speaker 1: lot last year. And two position groups that really for
Speaker 1: the Dolphins were pretty deep and had some good snap
Speaker 1: counts out of you know, Jerome Baker, Lyndon Roberts, Duke Riley,
Speaker 1: and then on offense, you know about the wide receivers
Speaker 1: and Matt We could. The truth is we could do
Speaker 1: you know, five of these podcasts, one for each position
Speaker 1: group really that you talk about primarily, but we're all
Speaker 1: I doing about thirty minutes or so today. I want
Speaker 1: to go ahead and spin it four and talk about
Speaker 1: the running back position because you know, you talk about
Speaker 1: the Dolphins draft strategy here, it seems like they really
Speaker 1: could go anywhere. It just mostly seems to be like
Speaker 1: rounding out some spots because you have so many foundations
Speaker 1: in place now with where this roster is in its
Speaker 1: current cycle. And one of the more interesting groups on
Speaker 1: the team to me is the running back position because
Speaker 1: they brought everybody back. I don't think that most fans
Speaker 1: expected that, you know, with all four Miles Gaskin, Savan Akhmed,
Speaker 1: and then Raheem Mostert and Jeff Wilson. A foursome that
Speaker 1: has two pairings in it, there're two really good buddies
Speaker 1: from previous stops before the Dolphins, which is kind of cool,
Speaker 1: I guess, but we know what the Dolphins offense wants
Speaker 1: to be. From a running perspective, there is a lot
Speaker 1: of variety, but the staples and principles or some outside zone.
Speaker 1: We saw what the Niners could do with getting Christian
Speaker 1: McCaffrey and the receiving game in this type of offense.
Speaker 1: Who are some guys that you would like to combine
Speaker 1: in this Dolphins room that could go into a game
Speaker 1: tomorrow if they had to. But who's somebody you think
Speaker 1: you could PLoP in there and get that running back
Speaker 1: room humming on another level in this year's draft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a great question, because again you're looking
Speaker 1: at players who may not necessarily have to play this year,
Speaker 1: but in a year or two you want them to
Speaker 1: take over from an aging Mostard or with Wilson, and
Speaker 1: you can feel like Wilson can be that compliment. You know,
Speaker 1: someone off the bat who maybe if you go on
Speaker 1: the early side of the draft is Kendre Miller out
Speaker 1: of TCU. He's smooth, he's sudden. He reminds me of
Speaker 1: another former Dolphin and a former fellow alum in Lamar
Speaker 1: Miller with you know, both the University Miami and with
Speaker 1: the Miami Dolphins, very smooth. Quick has an opportunity to
Speaker 1: become a good receiver and a good blocker. The elements
Speaker 1: are there, just a matter of refining some techniques. Another
Speaker 1: player who can fit that Sean Tucker. People seem to
Speaker 1: be a little bit down on him, but he's a
Speaker 1: guy that can run gap and outside zone. He's a
Speaker 1: game breaker of all the receipt of all the runners
Speaker 1: that I've seen this year. I know that there are
Speaker 1: other players who have maybe better acceleration, but when it
Speaker 1: shows up on the on tape, Sean Tucker's acceleration shows
Speaker 1: up on tape better than just about anybody on that level.
Speaker 1: And I think he's a player that can turn into
Speaker 1: a lead back and give you that explosive element that
Speaker 1: they like to have. You know, another one who can
Speaker 1: probably be that type of player who you can get
Speaker 1: later on and as kind of a not people not
Speaker 1: many people are talking about his tie On Evans out
Speaker 1: of Louisville. He's a five nine, two twenty five pound
Speaker 1: running back. First played at Hutchinson Community College. Then Tennessee
Speaker 1: for a season, transferred to Louisville. He's got that four
Speaker 1: or five to speed. He is someone that can run
Speaker 1: or through you. He can run around you, past you.
Speaker 1: Some skills as a receiver, some developing skills as a blocker.
Speaker 1: He kind of reminds me of physically as a mix
Speaker 1: somewhere between Ray Rice and Travis Henry in terms of
Speaker 1: body type, how he moves, what he can do well.
Speaker 1: You know, Chase Brown. I'm not as big of a
Speaker 1: fan of Chase Brown as some others, but he has
Speaker 1: a little bit of that Khalil Herbert Duke Johnson vibe
Speaker 1: where you can run him on outside zone. You know.
Speaker 1: I think that he definitely has explosion, but he I
Speaker 1: don't like backs that turn their back into the defense
Speaker 1: at the end of plays, and there's a little bit
Speaker 1: too much of that going on with his game that
Speaker 1: I have a little bit of questions about with him.
Speaker 1: But those are guys that I think from like who
Speaker 1: are going to be second, third, fourth, fifth round picks.
Speaker 1: These are those are some of the guys that I
Speaker 1: would really highlight that I feel strongly about. Devin Chain
Speaker 1: to me, is interesting, but he's on the lighter side,
Speaker 1: and I think that if you're looking for someone to
Speaker 1: succeed most in this offense, you want somebody who's a
Speaker 1: little bit on the bigger end of the spectrum, and
Speaker 1: those are the guys that probably fit best. That's why
Speaker 1: I touched an everything position group for this team because
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, like you could really take
Speaker 1: your choose whatever you prefer in terms of long term
Speaker 1: immediate impact bruiser, speed guy like it's all on the table,
Speaker 1: I think for the Dolphins this year, and you gave
Speaker 1: us a great list of names there, like you talk
Speaker 1: about Devin ah Chain. He makes the podcast a lot
Speaker 1: because I'm obsessed with speed at that position. I like
Speaker 1: home run hitters that can score from seventy five yards
Speaker 1: away at the running back spot. But no, those are
Speaker 1: some guys that I'm curious see what happens because Miami's
Speaker 1: in this weird situation where they have, you know, a
Speaker 1: second and third round picks and not again till late
Speaker 1: on day three. I am curious if they find a
Speaker 1: way to kind of bridge the gap and get some
Speaker 1: more picks in the middle, maybe stools guys you talked about,
Speaker 1: Can I add one more to you because he will
Speaker 1: probably fall because he transferred schools. He had this He
Speaker 1: was a five star prospect who had a lot of
Speaker 1: who had this quixonic recruiting journey where he started at
Speaker 1: Georgia getting going there and then he wound up at TCU.
Speaker 1: And that's Jack Evans who went to and then wound
Speaker 1: up an old miss. And there's a lot of questions
Speaker 1: about him character wise, but he's actually a great student.
Speaker 1: The founding paternal figure in his family the year before
Speaker 1: he got recruited passed away, so he really didn't have
Speaker 1: any support. He did it on his own. He made
Speaker 1: some immature decisions about his recruiting, but as a as
Speaker 1: a student, as an athlete, as a running back, there
Speaker 1: aren't many better. I think he's I think we could
Speaker 1: look back and go Zach Evans was highway robbery for
Speaker 1: a team because there's a lot of Clinton Portis to
Speaker 1: his game. He's someone who can run for power. He's
Speaker 1: got speed, terrific vision, pass protects extraordinarily well. At this
Speaker 1: point in his game. He was more refined last year
Speaker 1: as a runner between the tackles than what I saw
Speaker 1: out of Bejean Robinson, more refined in terms of being
Speaker 1: a decision maker knowing how to hug blocks the issue.
Speaker 1: Robinson got better and improved, but Evans is not as
Speaker 1: far away from the top. You know, two to three
Speaker 1: backs in this class, then I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people will have him. And if the Dolphins can get
Speaker 1: him later, let him sit and kind of watch and
Speaker 1: get a little bit of work and you know, just
Speaker 1: feel like that he's they feel confident about what he
Speaker 1: is off the field, and I think it'll be less
Speaker 1: of an issue than it is in the media. You're
Speaker 1: going to get one of the best backs in a
Speaker 1: very strong class. Well, my ears parked up when he
Speaker 1: said he was first recruited of Georgia, because those guys
Speaker 1: don't mess around with that recruits, especially at that position.
Speaker 1: What they produce every single year from the bulldog. So
Speaker 1: great stuff there and that scouting background, by the way,
Speaker 1: the kind of detail you can expect on the rookie
Speaker 1: scouting portfolio. He is Matt Waldman. The twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: edition is out now. You can follow him on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Matt Waldman. Matt, is there anything else we can
Speaker 1: promote for you? Here? Maybe the exact web address to
Speaker 1: go find the RSP The sure Matt Waldman dot com
Speaker 1: twenty one ninety five. You get a pre draft and postdraft.
Speaker 1: Postdraft will come out week after the NFL Draft. I'll
Speaker 1: email it to you or I'll email you a linkum
Speaker 1: notice that you can access it, and you know. Part
Speaker 1: of the proceeds go to an organization known as Darkness
Speaker 1: to Light dtwol dot org. They're an organization to help
Speaker 1: teach people about the awareness of how to be aware
Speaker 1: of grooming behaviors, of sexual abuse of children and how
Speaker 1: to prevent that from happening, as well as how to
Speaker 1: address situations when sexual abuse happens so that they don't
Speaker 1: compound the damage so they're protecting children. It's a great
Speaker 1: organization and we've raised over fifty five thousand dollars to
Speaker 1: that organization since two thousand and twelve. That's awesome, Matt.
Speaker 1: That's really cool to hear man. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for your time today and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Sarah sound good, Thanks so much, and there he goes
Speaker 1: Matt Waldman from the RSP. Great stuff there. As always,
Speaker 1: you'll always get good insight from Matt Waldman. Go ahead
Speaker 1: and check out his stuff on Twitter at Matt Waldman
Speaker 1: dot com. Everywhere you can find football content, you'll find
Speaker 1: his stuff. Draft Guide definitely check that out as well.
Speaker 1: All Right, it's gonna be my time. You go ahead,
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Speaker 1: finds up Caroline and Camera and Daddy's coming back upstairs.