WEBVTT - Drive Time: Skill Players Draft Preview with Matt Waldman 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:05.160 You were listening to the Miami Dolphins podcast Network. This 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.600 is Drivetime with Travis Winfield. Back to throw to a 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:16.440 looking at a wide dolphan touchdop, cleric kill, unbelievable. Just 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.239 flue fire for the second time to know where he 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.320 was going right away ahead of that the man I 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.160 want to help you soon up on his man away wattle, 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.440 waddle to a shotgut back to throw looking us up fires, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:36.480 touchdop again, it's waddle, It's six touchdown paradown tea. Drivetime 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.960 with Travis Winfield begins. Now let me check your pulse 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:46.199 if you're not furt of what is up? Dolphins and 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.879 welcome to the Drivetime Podcast, part of the Miami Dolphins 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:54.720 podcast network, covering your team, your Miami Dolphins. How's it 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.800 going everybody? I am your host, Travis Wingfield. And on 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:01.600 today's show, draft Prep begin here on the Drivetime Podcast, 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.360 We're gonna welcome in Matt Waldman of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.880 one of the best in the business. He does skill 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.160 players on offense, so we're talking all things wide receivers, 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.960 tight ends, and running backs on this edition of the podcast. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:19.680 From somewhere in South Florida, This is the Drivetime Podcast 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:25.160 maya Gaffe Fish. The calendar has turned to April. The 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.560 masters is this weekend. Baseball has opened up much of 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.920 the chagrin of a one in three start for the 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:32.920 Ciallo Manors, but hey, Julio Rodriguez is off to a 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.479 hot start. But it also means the most important thing 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.480 on the calendar the NFL Draft coming up in just 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.600 a few weeks. The defense have a couple of picks 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.360 on Day two, couple of picks on Day three. We 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.039 will go ahead and jump into what that might look like, 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.120 but more importantly, just talk about this class and get 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.320 you guys educated on what's potentially there, the strongest points 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.960 in terms of position groups in those class, and where 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.640 Miami could be looking with each potential pick at those 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.000 spot in terms of strength, team fit, all that fun stuff. 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.800 And we're gonna have a slew of expert guests on 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.960 here to help us get familiar with the twenty twenty 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.600 three NFL Draft class. And we're gonna start today with 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.240 someone that I'm pretty pumped up to have. I haven't 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.840 had him on my podcast before. He did do our 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.160 Twitter Spaces show last spring. A guys, I've been reading 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:21.960 for over a decade now, which he'll hear in the 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.799 interview Matt Waldman of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio. He is 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:30.800 a refreshing draft mind in the industry that sometimes to 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.680 me can get a little bit bogged down with cookie 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.799 cutter type of regurgitation, I think is the way I 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.239 put that. So Matt Waldman does not do that. He 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.720 gave us great insight last year on Skylar Thompson before 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.600 he was drafted, which was really cool to hear, great 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.240 insight on eric As Zuokama. He just knows all the 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.440 players from rounds one through seven and even Udfa, So 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:52.720 I thought, what a valuable resource to get on the 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.840 podcast here Miami. Going into this draft, we brought the 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.480 entire running back room back. We have the receiver room 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.959 which looks pretty good, but there's a spot or two 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.240 that for a guy that could be drafted, and then 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.400 of course a tight end position. As we talk on 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.240 this podcast, just three players in the roster had five 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.880 on opening day last year. So some potential options I 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.359 think at those positions to add in this year's draft class, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.240 as there is every year at every position. But without 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.160 further ado, why don't we go ahead and welcome in 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.000 the expert on all those things, all things skill players, 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.960 Matt Waldman. And I'm thrilled to be joined today by 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.000 someone who's work that I have followed for quite some time. 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.679 He is Matt Waldman, the creator of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.680 He focuses on the skill players. That's the offensive side 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:36.600 of the football, and that's the side of the ball 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.440 we're doing today regarding the twenty twenty three NFL Draft. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.560 So Matt, welcome in, sir, Hey Travis, it's always a pleasure. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.119 Thanks for having me. I let him with that intro, Matt, 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.800 because I first found your work, believe it or not, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.480 back in twenty twelve, and I remember it being so 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.280 much different than what I would consider at the time 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.520 cookie cutter draft content that I think, you know, most 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:00.640 people had to sift through back at that time because 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.400 draft Twitter and the draft coverage hadn't exploded the way 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.920 I think it has in the last decade at that time, 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.480 and it's even more so the case nowadays. But we'll 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:10.840 get into that here in a moment. But it was 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.680 a twenty twenty twelve draft. The Dolphins needed a quarterback. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.400 The quarterback market was bustling that year, both in free 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.960 agency and the draft. You had Peyton Manning and Matt 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.039 Flynn was a big ticket at him before he assigned 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.320 the contract in Seattle, and then you had Andrew Luck 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.480 RG three, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Whedon, Russell Wilson, and who 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.040 could forget the Super Bowl MVP of that group, Nick Foles. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.479 But anyway, you broke down tannehills game in a way 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.760 that was so different to me at the time, and 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.160 everybody wanted to say that this guy needs reps. He 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.800 was a converted wide receiver, which wasn't the case he was. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.000 You know, that's a different topic, different day. But you 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.159 went more in depth and showed us how he won 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.880 from the pocket, how he anticipated, and how he was 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.960 absolutely worthy of being not just the top ten pick, 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:53.599 but the eighth pick in the draft that year. So 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.240 it's a very long way to lead into asking you 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.240 about the genesis of the rookie scouting portfolio. Did it 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:01.880 come to be and how did it, I guess, get 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:03.920 to where it is today. Well, sure, I was an 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.720 operations manager and a quality director for about a ten thousand, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:15.680 ten thousand employee company and really what I had specialized 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:20.120 in was training people and working with others in a 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.640 way where that we could take a system and evaluate 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:30.120 individuals on criteria that isn't necessarily objective, but to try 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.359 and make it as objective as possible so that you 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.520 could get people to be more productive and understand these things. 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.480 And I got certified in a lot of techniques in 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.960 terms of how to create evaluation systems, how to implement them, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.120 how to continuously improve them. And I was always a 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.359 big football fan, and I had done some freelance writing 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.080 in my life over the years, and I just thought 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.680 one day reading Gil Brandt talk about a running back 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.240 who was five nine two oh five and if he 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.480 were a couple inches taller ten pounds, he would have 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.360 been a top five overall pick, And as someone who 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.880 worked in corporate America, it all kind of clicked to go, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.400 I get it. What draft capital is isn't necessarily all 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.000 about talent. It's about what's safe sometimes, because at five nine, 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.800 two hundred and five pound back had two ACL tears, 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.520 couldn't got his scholarship dropped at FSU, went to Villanova, 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.880 and then wound up being with the Philadelphia Eagles and 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.360 being an All Pro and Brian Westboro. You know, so 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.279 I got really interested in all that and started implementing 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.480 what I did for my living with creating a draft guide. 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:35.320 And you know, it's been eighteen years now. This is 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.919 my full time job now doing it, and in the 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.000 RSP is now one of the two most purchased independent 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.080 draft guides by scouts and personnel people in the NFL, 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.360 according to people like Alex Brown, who's the director of 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.000 recruiting for SMU and has worked at RICE as well 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.880 as at Houston with Tom Herman and folks like that, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.400 and he deals with people every week who come in 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:00.679 so that he could talk about the pros Bexany, sees 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.680 what they're looking at, ask what they're looking at, and 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.480 you know, and that's the that's the source who's told 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.080 me that information. So it's been a fun journey, and 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.160 you know, I take people through my process with the RSP, 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.640 so it's really in depth, but I try to do 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.040 it in an entertaining way, in an easy way to 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.000 see everything. And because I've been running about fantasy football 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.720 as well, I dovetail that in so it's kind of 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:26.720 like I give separate like fantasy recommendations, but also show 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.920 like real football, and so it's kind of captured an 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.160 audience where I've got scouts who read the book and 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.160 use it for cross checking, but I also have media 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.920 and fantasy people who like it because I work at 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.520 football guys dot Com as a senior staff writer, so 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.560 they know that I can kind of switch between worlds. 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.520 Did you know at the time that you were essentially 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.600 creating a cross platform product that would basically hit and 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.680 all the major all the major you know, players in 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.600 this world, because it sounds like you really kind of 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.080 hit the funnel perfectly with all of that. I was hoping, 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.800 but at the same time, you know, it was the 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.960 vision and then executing the reality were much different. I 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.400 turned down a lot of opportunities early on to do 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.120 some things where I could write for somebody else's draft guide, 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.120 and they were at three letter or four letter networks, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.960 and then I was sitting in an empty house, you know, 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.000 watching TV and seeing people I was going to be 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.680 working with their working for that. I turned down doing 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.880 national gigs and I thought, well, this better work. So 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.000 it was you know, it's worked out very well for me, 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.120 and I'm very very, very fortunate. And I was hoping 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.520 that I could do something that was heavy on content, 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:48.040 light on the bells and whistles, and it's worked out 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.120 that way. But I, you know, I was hopeful, but 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.720 I didn't think it would work out as smoothly as 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.240 it has. That's why I love talking about these stories 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.600 because it was it was somewhat similar for me. I mean, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.720 it sounds like you took, you know, what you learn 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.000 from your professional life and then took what you were 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.080 curious and interested in and kind of combined the two 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:06.880 and made, you know, made a job out of it. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.000 And that's essentially what what I did in a lot 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.480 of ways with the birth of NFL Game Pass. And 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.080 I was so fascinated by the idea of going back 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.600 and trying to kind of reconfigure the idea of how 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.400 we view quarterback play. And I did so many projects 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.040 I thought were bad after the fact, but also had 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:24.400 some stuff that was pretty good that got me in 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.360 a position where I started to understand tap more and 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.040 things like that. So it's it always fascinates me. I 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.120 think the audience that I have here is fascinated by 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.559 it too, because you know, podcasting it's about the content 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:35.800 is certainly, but also the person that's behind the microphone, 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.640 and I think it's a big part of the intimacy 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.880 you build on a podcast. But before we get into 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.640 this class here, I wanted to ask you this last 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:43.960 thing about the scouting you know, the scouting world as 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.840 it is currently and kind of how you view it, because, 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:47.880 like you said, you know, you're you're on the radar 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.480 of not just fantasy fans, but you know, people in 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.439 the league and people are on the you know, the 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.559 scouting cogniscente as it were. But I'm curious because we 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.360 get this, this this new wave of I guess social 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.439 media that produces draft takes, and that wasn't always the 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.640 case because the draft used to be this really niche, 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.920 you know, thing that people covered and if you wanted 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:10.160 to find out about it, you had to kind of 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.319 dig into the animals of the uh of the animals 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.480 of the internet and or the other sometimes, you know, 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.600 when it comes to some of these social media outlets. Right, yeah, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:25.080 there we go. I almost just let it go and 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:26.599 and didn't know and didn't come back to it. But 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.480 we're gonna make sure that kid's taken out there. But 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.079 um no, so I just you know, you didn't have 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.040 a chance to really to get everyone's opinion on the stuff. 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.199 And I feel like now it's it's almost become inundated 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.760 with this, like, oh, I saw two clips of a 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:42.440 guy on Twitter, so I have a take and if 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.080 you if you draft that guy, I'm gonna be mad 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.200 about it. Do you notice that and does it does 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:47.839 it ever bother you? Or how do you kind of 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:51.800 try to combat I guess what has become modern? I 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.240 guess amateur scouting a lot of ways, even though you're 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:55.640 in the professional ranks of it, Like how do you 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:57.800 how do you kind of navigate those waters? Well, it's 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.080 always going to be frustrating when you see something on 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.480 a day to day basis, but at the same time, 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.680 you get you developed the perspective to understand this is 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.280 that what are you trying to be? You know, if 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.320 you're trying to be popular, then these types of things 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.040 can be really frustrating, but you're but that's part of 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.800 the popularity thing, is that you're trying to entertain more 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:22.080 than you're trying to deliver long term, actionable, evergreen content. 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:24.360 And when you're trying to but if you're trying to 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.240 do that, then popularity is seen in a different light, 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.439 and what you're trying to do is to be able 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.400 to formulate things where I guess the younger folks call 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.920 it receipts, but like the true meaning of receipts, where 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.040 you know, you can go onto your Twitter page and 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.120 when everyone says that you were an idiot for ranking 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.439 Nick Chubb above, say Quon Barkley, or that Justin Jefferson 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.839 should be you should just wait for him instead of 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:54.439 Jerry Judy and Ceedee Lamb and Denzel Mims or Patrick 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:59.839 Mahomes actually is a far smarter quarterback than some of 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.400 the ways people are saying that he is. And when 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.400 you have things like that, you have complete scouting reports 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.160 that you are able to put up there, it stands 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.440 the test of time, and you get the perspective of 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.200 that the type of people who are going to gravitate 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.640 toward that aren't the type of people who are going 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.160 to gravitate towards the I saw two plays and therefore 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:21.760 you know, I stayed at the holiday and express and 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.120 now I know everything you know type of thing. So 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.600 it's it's just patience and putting out good work and 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.520 having the perspective to know that the type of audience 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.480 that's going to be gravitated to you, to you to 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.760 your work. Is the type of audience you want to have. 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.080 And if it means you have, you know, two thousand 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.920 raving followers as opposed to two hundred thousand, then that's 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.480 that's all the better because you know you're going to 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.720 have a much better experience interacting with people as a whole. 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.800 And that's kind of the perspective I take. Yeah, it's 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.560 the perspective like that, Matt, that I think produces the 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.880 good content. And I really appreciate that. And you know, 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.280 I always see like the idea of branding or doing 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.200 certain things for a certain reason. It's like, no, if 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.520 you just if you just beat yourself and make good content, 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.120 people tend to gravitate towards that. And I think that's 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.400 probably what you found with you know, the RISP. It's 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.800 it's like you said, it's spread really really wide at 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.160 this point, very successful, and people like me sure love 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:19.400 to get our hands on that. And that's why I 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.600 wanted to have you on today and kind of start 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.000 here with the skill groups. And I was thinking about 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.800 how to best guide this in the Dolphins direction, and 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.040 I think we'll start at the tight end position, just 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.560 because if you look at the numbers of the roster, 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.600 and this is like another trope, like you know, you 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:35.839 have certain things you think you need and don't need, 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.520 but teams don't typically draft that way. They usually take 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.360 good players. That's the best way to draft, well, I think, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.000 but I think if you just look at the numbers 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.200 on the Dolphins roster, they have three right now tight 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.760 ends compared to five on opening day last year. We 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.920 did get a Drham Smith extension earlier this week, but 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.000 also I just keep hearing about how great this tight 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.160 end class is best in the last decade. So I 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.600 wanted to start there, Matt. And you know, we've seen 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.600 tight end utilize and what has kind of become known 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.560 as the Shanahan offense right at the Shanahan tree and 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.840 all the branches off at offense. And we have one 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.440 of those branches and the very bright Mike McDaniel down here, 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.319 and perhaps no one was greater in that role than 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.520 currently with George Kittle and San Francisco. And I was 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.880 curious to first kind of get your take on the 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.480 impact of a dual purpose tight end in this offense 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.600 because Kittle, I think in a lot of ways makes 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.359 that Niners offense go, do you agree? And how important 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.080 is it to have a piece like that to maximize 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.880 what this offense is at his core? I agree that 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.880 it is. You know that Kittle was the guy to 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.440 make that go. And you know, tight end as a whole, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.800 when we think of the all around play both in 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.160 line and split outside and be a receiving threat type 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.640 of tight end, they're very rare. I mean you basically 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:55.520 they are unicorns. The past two are Rob Gronkowski and 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.960 George Kittle, and both of them have dealt with injuries 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.800 throughout because it's a practically impossible position to play in 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:07.720 that way in today's NFL, even you know, because even 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.560 in the past when you had Kellen Winslow or Ozzie 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:14.280 News some those were receivers who were basically given a 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.640 minimal amount of responsibility at the line. So for the 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.400 Miami Dolphins, it would be ideal if they could find 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.680 a player like that. And I think that there is 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:28.520 maybe one who could possibly get to that level, maybe 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.880 two or three that that'll get close. And but again 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.640 we're talking about unicorn status. And then there's about seven 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.840 or eight other players who if you use them more 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.600 as h backs or you know exactly how you want 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.960 to use them as blockers or as receivers. It might 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.760 work well enough in McDaniel's offense, because in McDaniel's offense, 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.760 the fact that they have the personnel that they do with, 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.920 you know, with those two great receivers on the outside, 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.600 is it necessary that they need him to be a 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.840 man match up problem along the lines of Kittle or Kelsey, 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.120 And I would argue that you don't need it to 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.160 be quite that level. It would be nice, but maybe 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:12.920 the priority is is you need a guy who can block, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:17.400 who can at least be someone who can do double 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.320 teams on the front side or backside, be able to 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:25.040 work across the formation and pull do some pulling blocks 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.720 as well as doing some wine back blocks. And there 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.680 are a number of guys in this class who can 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.760 do that and also threaten the seam up the middle, 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.440 off play action, run some over routes or crossing routes. 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.320 And then it just depends on the flavor what you 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.600 want there, you know. I mean, it's like there's maybe 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.320 three different variations of chocolate type of flavors here that 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.480 you might look at and go, do you want the 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.560 guy who can stretch the seam win one on one 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:52.960 on the outside, Or are you okay with the guy 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.800 who's a little better of a blocker, but he's not 0:16:55.920 --> 0:17:00.360 going to beat cornerbacks, you know, detached outside on a 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.159 regular basis. He's probably better off facing up linebackers in 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.120 the occasional safety. Well, I think I think it's nice 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.359 to have options and different flavors that you prefer in 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.119 as class. And you've queued me up there for a 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.200 perfect teaser. We're gonna go ahead and take our first 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.040 break right here and come back on the other side. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.040 And I want to ask Matt, who is that one 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.760 or two potential unicorns in this year's tight end class. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.760 That's next Draft Time podcast, Your host Travis Wingfield, my 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.400 guest today, Matt Waldman, brought to you by Auto Nation. 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.800 Back here on a Wednesday edition of the Draft Time Podcast. 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.080 You heard Matt kind of lead into a potential not 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.439 a secret. But I'm really dying to hear your answer 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.879 on this. Who are those unicorns you're talking about in 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:41.520 this tight end class? I have an idea who they 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.399 might be, but I want to hear what your perspective 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.520 is and then also tell me are they going to 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.920 be gone by pick fifty one? How high do the 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.440 tight ends going this year's class? Yeah, that's the big question. 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.399 And for me, I'm much more of a how do 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.679 they look and how would I grade them as opposed 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:58.240 to where they I think they're gonna go. But I'll 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.280 give my best shot on that the guy who fits 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.600 that bill. He may not be the best tight end 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.679 in this class ingrades for how I look at it, 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:11.360 but he's close. And that's Luke's Schoonmacher. The tight end 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.720 for Michigan maybe not getting as much love as some 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:16.960 of the other players, but if you're looking for a 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.480 guy who might be the best all around tight end, 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:26.000 you know, he's an excellent inline blocker who can do 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.359 all the work that you're looking for in the run 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:33.200 game in terms of you know what he can do 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.760 with different types of blocks. He can win with finesse, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.000 he can win with technique, he can win with power. 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.320 He's someone that can deliver a punch, he can delivers 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.240 a good strike, he gets good position, he moves his 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.480 feet well. He can control all three levels of defenders 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.919 with a variety of blocks, and you would expect that 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.840 from a good Michigan tight end anyway, if you're even 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.760 gonna go to the logo scouting kind of thing, but 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.600 that's the receiving game. That's interesting because you can use 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:02.840 him on a lot of a lot of the routes 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:07.399 that you saw Jesseki used on the outlet plays over routes, 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.000 seems up the zone against the safety or a linebacker, 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:16.640 play action drag routes. He's certainly mobile enough to do that. 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.640 He has the speed to stretch the seam, he has 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.320 the acceleration to get early separation. And then what I 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.680 liked about him most is he has all the elements 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:27.919 to become a top route runner in the league. He 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.040 can use stems to set up breaks. He has good 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.000 hip flip for speed breaks. He often can get drop 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.480 his weight into short stop routes. What we haven't seen 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.560 him do is beat cornerbacks and safeties one on one. 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.800 But at Michigan they really didn't employ him in that way, 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.439 especially as good of a blocker as he was. But 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.640 I think he has the athletic ability to do that, 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.399 and if he does, you might be looking at the 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.680 best tight end in this class. A certainly high praise. 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.199 Not a name that you've seen. That's that's why I 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:58.560 like your work, Matt, because it's not a name that 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.200 you see, you know, plastered across everyone's top five, everyone's 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.720 mock drafts in the first round. Just not someone that 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:05.760 you're you're really getting with that type of content. So 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.200 really cool to hear that. And then was there another 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.080 one you potentially wanted to touch on? A potential unicorn 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.840