1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: I think it, but turning before we know it. It 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: is time to talk the Detroit Tigers. Cody Stavenhagen on 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: the show with us today. You can of course see 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: him all over the place. He writes for The Athletic. 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: He's the co host of Tiger Territory. Cody, thanks for 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: being with us. We appreciate it. What are the top 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: three things that the Tigers need to do this offseason? 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, thanks for having me on. First of all, 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: I think you can pretty easily narrow the Tigers offseason 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: to do list down into three categories. Probably the most 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: obvious is to fix the bullpen. It was a weakness 12 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: at many points last year, and more specifically, to add 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: more swing and miss to the bullpen so that you're 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: not living and dying by batting average and balls and play. 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: The Tigers bullpen rank twenty ninth in withfth rate last year, 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: which is unacceptable if you're trying to win a World Series. 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: They need multiple relievers. They I think need at least 18 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: one legit back in swing and miss type relief. I 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: don't I'd be highly surprised if they would spend one 20 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: an Edwin Diaz or a Devin Williams, but the tier 21 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: guys right below that, Pete Fairbanks, some other names in 22 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: that group makes sense, and again they're gonna have to 23 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,919 Speaker 2: get more than one. Right now, will vest and Tyler 24 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: Holton might be or only sure sure things in the bullpen, 25 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: although you do have some other existing guys who have 26 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: had success, but you got a lot of work to 27 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 2: do in the pin. Number two, you have to add 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: a starter. The Tigers. For now, we're just gonna assume 29 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: they're gonna keep trek scuble and not trade them for 30 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,279 Speaker 2: the purpose of this exercise. They're okay. They're in okay 31 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: shape in the pit or in the rotation. Schooble, Casey, 32 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: miz Jack Flaherty, Ree Sultan, and Troy Melton, with Cater 33 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: Montero some other guys in that mix. But they use 34 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: I think fifteen different starting pitchers last year, including bullpen days. 35 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: We all know you need more depth. I think they 36 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: have to get at least one legit starter on a 37 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: major league deal, and I would argue maybe they should 38 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: target someone who can pitch almost as a number two 39 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: to Schooble, because they're not just building for twenty twenty six. 40 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: You're building for the future. After twenty twenty six, you 41 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: are likely to lose Trek Skouble, Jack Flaherty, and Casey 42 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: miz All to free agency, so maybe you could almost 43 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: work ahead now. One thing I want to note on 44 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: both of those topics with the pitching the Tigers, as 45 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: much as it's fun to link them to names like 46 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: Michael King or whoever else, we know they like to 47 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: get creative. So I do wonder or just food for thought, 48 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: might they be looking around the edges is they're a 49 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 2: reliever they think they could convert to a starter, or 50 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: a starter they could convert to a reliever. I would 51 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: not rule out them doing something more outside of the box. 52 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: That conventional wisdom, you know, isn't bringing to the top 53 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: of all our minds. And then the third thing is 54 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: to improve the offense. For what it's worth, the Tigers 55 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: ranked eleventh and run scoring last year. They did that 56 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: with a really young lineup I think the fourth most 57 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: played appearances of hitters twenty five or younger. But they're 58 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 2: awful September and in the playoffs some of their flaws 59 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: really showed up. There can still be too much swing 60 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: and miss, a little too much chase. I think a 61 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: lot of what happens with this lineup will revolve around 62 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: what glaber Torres does. This afternoon. We will learn whether 63 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: he accepts or declines the qualifying offer. If he accepts it, 64 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: that'll be good for their lineup. He's a dependable professional hitter. 65 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: But you do wonder how they will configure the rest 66 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: of their infield, especially with a lot of existing young 67 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: players in place, especially with Kevin McGonagall arguably the top 68 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 2: prospect in baseball, and some other guys won the rise. 69 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: I think they need more, but there's not a beyond 70 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: glaber Torres. There's not a clear solution, like a clear fit. 71 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 3: You know. 72 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: They could go after the Alex Bregman's. The Bobaschets in 73 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: the world makes a lot of sense, but they'll have 74 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: to do some other shuffling and again, for better or worse, 75 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: the Tigers tend to be creative, so I'm really interested 76 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: to see what kind of solutions they will ultimately land on. 77 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: Talked about the bullpen needing more swing and miss. Is 78 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: there any of those guys besides the two that un 79 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 3: mentioned that change maybe their pitch mix, the repertoire, because 80 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: you're not gonna find six guys that have swing and 81 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: miss that just are out there available and the Tigers 82 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 3: aren't willing to spend that much money. So are there 83 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: guys that they've said, hey, you know what, we can 84 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 3: increase this to increase that swing and miss. Yeah. 85 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: Always a good question, and generally something that Tigers been 86 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: pretty good at is helping guys tweak their arsenals optimize 87 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 2: their pitch mix. Kyle Finigan, who they traded for last year, 88 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: is the perfect example. He's a free agent again, but 89 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,679 Speaker 2: I think there could be some mutual interest in bringing 90 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: him back, and they didn't acquire him necessarily. He was 91 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 2: a good reliever, a good closer, but he wasn't a 92 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 2: huge swing and miss guy. He got to Detroit almost 93 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: doubled the usage of his splitter and the swing and 94 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 2: miss went way up. So that's a Finnegan's a prime example, 95 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: and I think that's a reason he would like to 96 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: maybe return to Detroit, and maybe they would like to 97 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: have him back because they already made that sort of adjustment. 98 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: There's certainly more guys in turn, but you look at 99 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: some of the major names, they're bullpen like Brendan Hanafy. 100 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: He's more of a sinker ground ball type guy. Brent Herder, 101 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 2: he can miss some bats with a slider. You know, 102 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: he's a lefty, but still more of a ground ball 103 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: type guy. So I don't know that you can completely 104 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: change the profiles of some of your existing players in house. 105 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 2: That's why it's certainly going to take multiple external additions. 106 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: While yeah, I guess you get you're hoping, hey, throw 107 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 2: the slider, throw the slider a little harder, and maybe 108 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: you can get a little more swing and miss. So 109 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: at least you're not ranking twenty ninth. Cody. 110 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: What would it take to trade Trek Scooble? What do 111 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: you have to get in return? 112 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, obviously it's one of the biggest questions 113 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: of the whole offseason. I think it would take a 114 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 2: real haul. You know, I think you're tacking multiple major 115 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: league ready players top one hundred prospects, if not greater 116 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 2: than that. It's hard to see a world where it's 117 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: not at least a three player package, and all three 118 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 2: of those players are going to have to be pretty good. 119 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: I think you would like some major league ready pitching, 120 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: starting pitching, and maybe some up to middle athletes. For 121 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 2: as much as we look around in free agency, at 122 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: third basement. Stuff like that, shortstop and center field seem 123 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: to be some areas the Tigers could stand to improve. 124 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: Maybe it'd be easier to do that on the trade 125 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: market than free agency, But I don't know that you 126 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: can just snap your finger and come up with an 127 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: offer that makes sense. It would It would really have 128 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: to be a pretty mind blowing offer. I think for 129 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: the Tigers to do this doesn't mean they won't, doesn't 130 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: mean they're not listening, because they certainly have not shut 131 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: down this talk. Scott Harris, Jeff Greenberg when they've been 132 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: asked about it, they've basically said no comment, which to 133 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: me says, hey're they're open to listen, listen to offers, 134 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 2: but they don't have to trade them. So I think 135 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 2: it would take something that they really would have to 136 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 2: feel strongly is worth it, both in the short term 137 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: and the long term. 138 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 4: Holiday shopping season is here and we have you covered 139 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 4: from to toe. 140 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 3: Let's take to talk about an area that's not quite 141 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 3: close to the toes. 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To get exclusive holiday deals up to yep, 152 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 4: I said it, fifty percent off. Go to meundies dot 153 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 4: com slash foul and enter promo code foul. That's m 154 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 4: E U N d I e s dot com slash 155 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 4: f o U L promo code foul for up to 156 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 4: fifty percent off. 157 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 5: Cody, I was gonna say, what you missed on that 158 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 5: off season to do list was signed Trek School, right, 159 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 5: I mean, that's it. And I joked with Scott Harris 160 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 5: when we were in Seattle together, like and Terrek walked by, 161 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 5: and I go, Scott, when are we announcing this extension here? 162 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 5: And Scott, you know, Scott Harris looked at me like 163 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 5: I was crazy because I sent in front of Tarek. 164 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 5: But you know that's me. Whatever. Anyways, so I thought 165 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 5: it was funny. Hinch was there too. He laughed. Everyone 166 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 5: kind of had a good chuckle about it. And I 167 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 5: think Trek said something like, we'll have Scott call my 168 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 5: Scott and we'll figure it out. But I don't think 169 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 5: that's gonna happen. It's not that simple. But you mentioned 170 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 5: offense at the end, right, And I watched them play 171 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 5: five games. I watched them play more than five games, obviously, 172 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 5: but the five games against the Mariners, it was swinging, miss, 173 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 5: swinging miss, swinging miss, strikeouts, strikeouts, strikeout. And I love 174 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 5: I love Riley Green. I think Riley Green could be 175 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 5: one of the best hitters in all of baseball if 176 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 5: he just cut down his strikeouts. Will he change in 177 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 5: order to do that? Because I've talked to some people 178 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 5: in baseball that say, this guy could be a three 179 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 5: four hundred million dollar guy, or if he could and 180 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 5: he's on the path he is, he'll be a hundred 181 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 5: which listen, one hundred million dollars is a crazy amount 182 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 5: of money, you know, one hundred to two hundred million 183 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 5: dollar guy if he stays where he's at. So do 184 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 5: you think they can talk him into changing and just 185 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 5: cutting down on the strikeouts? Just I mean, just to 186 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 5: go from two hundred strikeouts to one hundred and fifty 187 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 5: strikeouts and put the ball in play in situations. 188 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's certainly attainable. Like when he was 189 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: coming up as a really highly touted prospect, I never 190 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: viewed him as a guy who's going to strike out 191 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: two hundred times. Now, around the time he got to 192 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: double a, myself and some mothers kind of start noticing, like, 193 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 2: this guy does swing and miss a little more than 194 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: maybe we've talked about. So it started to show up. 195 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: But he was viewed as like a very pure hitter, 196 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: a very natural hitter, a line drive, all fields type hitter. 197 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: And the big question was, like, how's the power going 198 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: to develop? Is this a twenty homer guy, a thirty 199 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: homer guy, a thirty plus homer guy, and you look 200 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: up at age twenty four, he hit thirty six home runs, 201 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: But I think it's fair to say there was a 202 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: little bit too much selling out for power. It led 203 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: to a franchise record for strikeouts. Yeah, he got the 204 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 2: home runs, but some other parts of his game really suffered. 205 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: Playing the game moving the ball forward huge issue. I 206 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: think he's a good enough and adaptable enough hitter to 207 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: no that's not gonna fly. His first couple of years 208 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 2: in the majors, he was hitting the ball on the 209 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: ground too much. He adapted, started hitting the ball in 210 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: the air, tapped into his power again. It seems now 211 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: fair to say that was probably an over correction. Something's 212 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: going to have to change. And Shirley Riley knows that. 213 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: I was gonna ask you about Kevin mcgonagal. Yes, he 214 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 3: is maybe number two. I think he's ranked number two 215 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 3: or number three prospect in all of baseball. They're number 216 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 3: one prospect. Is this team able to bring up Kevin 217 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 3: mcgonagal to the big leagues and at the same time 218 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 3: say we think our team is getting better and we're 219 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: gonna win a World Series Because normally it's you either 220 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: keep all your stars and get more. We talked a 221 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: lot about free agency and if it doesn't go well, 222 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 3: then we call up our prospects. 223 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the whole I don't know if 224 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: it's the problem, but it's the difficulty of trying to 225 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: thread the needle and build the sustainable winner, right because 226 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: you get these young prospects and you got to get 227 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: him to the big leagues at some point. But we 228 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: all know, young players are prone to struggles. Wasn't that 229 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: long ago. Colt Keith was not quite Kevin McGonagall level, 230 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: but he was a very highly touted prospect and he 231 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: really struggled for the first eighty ish games of his 232 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: major league career. Got a little better, but probably still 233 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 2: hasn't hit what he eventually might be. McGonagall, this guy's 234 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 2: really good. I would not be surprised if he has 235 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: success pretty early on. But is he going to be 236 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: as good as Bob Baschett is from day one? I 237 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: mean that's a hard sell, right, It's probably going to 238 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: take a couple of years, so I don't know. It's 239 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: why it's really difficult. I think mcgonagall's legit. I think 240 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: it helps. He can play second, he can play third, 241 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: he can play some short I'm not sure he's an 242 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: everyday shortstop though, and so that that's part of the 243 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: equation that makes it a little bit harder. 244 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 5: All right, Cody mcgonagall's a super prospect. They have Max 245 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 5: Clark who is coming also. I love what the Tigers 246 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 5: do with Cole Keith. They're not afraid because they're in 247 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 5: the central winnable Division that they can still do this. 248 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 5: What I want to know though, is Scott Harris. Okay, 249 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 5: Scott Harris is the GM's he's been in charge for 250 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 5: a few years now. What's his role. Can he go 251 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 5: to Christopher Illich and say, mister Ilich, I need more money, 252 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 5: I need ten million and we can get Bragman ambushit 253 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 5: and have McGonagall or is he not have that power 254 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 5: because he's a young guy. He came from the Cubs. 255 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 5: The Cubs are a big market, even though sometimes they 256 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 5: don't act like it, right, So does he learn to 257 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 5: be stingy or will he Does he have the ability 258 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 5: to go to Christopher re Lilich and say I need 259 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 5: this much more money and we can get past Seattle 260 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 5: and maybe go to the World Series. 261 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know exactly how those conversations go down, 262 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: but oddly enough, for as much as Chrisilich isn't his 263 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: father and isn't known as a big spender, it seems 264 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: like he's always been willing to open the pocket books 265 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: to like a reasonable level. Like people who complain about 266 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: the Tigers being cheap. It wasn't that long ago they 267 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: signed Hobby Bias, and they signed Eduardo Rodriguez, and they 268 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: spent pretty big in the twenty twenty two off season. Now, 269 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: I do wonder if Chris Hilich hired Scott Harris in 270 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: part because there was some alignment that they didn't have 271 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: to be a luxury tax team, that they didn't have 272 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: to be the Mike Ilitch Tigers. Yeah, Scott Harris, you know, 273 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 2: he came up under theo Epstein, but then he worked 274 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: for far hands ied in San Francisco. It doesn't seem 275 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 2: so far like free agency, like spending is necessarily how 276 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: he views, you know, the best way to build a 277 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 2: baseball team. This is a guy who likes the waiver wire, 278 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 2: and I think that the challenge of finding surplus value 279 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: and winning on the margins and all those kind of buzzwords. 280 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 2: But to some degree has been pretty good at it. 281 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: So maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle. I 282 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: think this offseason can be a test though, for Chris Ilich, 283 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: how hands on do you want to be? How much 284 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: do you want to spend? And then Scott Harris, He's 285 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 2: done a really good job at a lot of the 286 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: finer aspects of building an organization, but putting the finishing 287 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: touches on the major league roster I've always viewed that 288 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: as the hardest thing to do, and sometimes that means 289 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: that that means you got to spend. 290 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: I think, Cody, why doesn't Chris spend like Mike. 291 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: I think it's also important to remember Mike Ilich spent 292 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: big for what less than ten years toward the end 293 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: of his life. He wanted to win a World Series. 294 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: But Mike Elich owned the Tigers in the nineties and 295 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: they didn't really act like that. And in the early 296 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: two thousands maybe to some degree when they signed Pad Rodriguez, 297 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: that was a huge deal, but it wasn't really until 298 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: later in his life and his ownership with the Tigers 299 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: that he spent at that level of aggression. So it 300 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: was abnormal and it wasn't his entire ownership. Chrisilich clearly 301 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: just doesn't view things the same way his dad did 302 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: toward the ends. Towards the end. 303 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 5: There, Yeah, that's when they started winning, is when they 304 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 5: signed Pudge and they signed Maglio and they had justin Verland, 305 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 5: and they brought Kenny Rogers back, and they went got 306 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 5: carlos Ki in, and they went and got plus Atoplongo, 307 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 5: and they went and got all these guys Max Scherzer 308 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 5: and Porcelo and David Price, and that's when the Tigers 309 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 5: were good. Maybe they should look in the mirror and 310 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 5: be like, we were good and starting six, because four 311 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 5: they were four. They were very good when they got 312 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 5: Pudgo five. But then six when they all started coming together, 313 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 5: that's when they went to the World Series. And then 314 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 5: obviously they had that great run in the twenty tennis. 315 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 5: Trust me, I played against all those guys. They went 316 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 5: to god making Cabrera paid him. They went got Dontro 317 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 5: and they paid him, even though he didn't work out right. 318 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 5: But they did these things and that was how they won. 319 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 5: And Camerica can be awesome. I've seen it. And thank 320 00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 5: god they got a new well they didn't get a 321 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 5: new score. They move the scoreboards. You can now actually 322 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 5: see it. So they've done some good things there. 323 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, they did all that, and they got to the 324 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: World Series twice and they didn't win it. And so unfortunately, 325 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: I think that is like ammunition for the newer class 326 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: executives who would say, why should we do all that 327 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: and then having to risk tear it down where we 328 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: could operate like this and make the playoffs and back 329 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: to back years and think that we're going to continue 330 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: to get better now. Obviously there are a million cautionary 331 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: tales of examples that didn't quite work out. The Orioles 332 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: last yearn even the Cubs who did win a World Series. 333 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 2: They thought they had the makings of a dynasty and 334 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: that thing fell apart pretty quickly. And that wasn't necessarily 335 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: that they were you know, they were willing to spend 336 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: in Chicago too. But I think that's one of the 337 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: more fascinating, like philosophical debates, because everyone wants to spin, spin, spin, 338 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: and I think they're like, I think they were taught. 339 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: The Tigers are at a point where they need to 340 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 2: get serious about spending a little bit more. But I 341 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: don't know, you can spind your heart out and sometimes 342 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: it still doesn't work. 343 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, look at the Mets. 344 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: Cody. 345 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: We appreciate you taking the time to be with us 346 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: today and all things Tigers. Have a good offseason. We'll 347 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: talk to you. 348 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 2: Soon, all right, Thanks guys, All right. 349 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 5: Thank you. 350 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: Don't forget. You can check out Tiger Territory with Cody 351 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: and Kieran Steckley on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.