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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week Daily with Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: Hey listen, I'd just fresh off his panel. They talked

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Speaker 2: about AI and security. Is Philip Vnables. He's chief information

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Speaker 2: security officer at Google Cloud. Joining us here in studio.

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Speaker 3: How are you all good.

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Speaker 4: It's a good day to be here, great place, great

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Speaker 4: a great event.

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Speaker 3: It is a great event.

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Speaker 2: Listen OURBI team they just kind of dig into really

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Speaker 2: the specifics of stuff.

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Speaker 3: I want to just first start.

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Speaker 2: We asked this from our other guest from the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: AI event, and that is when you think about the

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Speaker 2: global macro. Here we are in a day where we

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Speaker 2: are obviously taking cues actually most days out of news

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Speaker 2: from Washington, and whether today it's on tariffs, what of

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Speaker 2: tariffs or the global macro think is really top of

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Speaker 2: mind for you in what you do on a daily basis.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not really kind of involved in the side

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Speaker 4: to really kind of talk about tarrorists, but we know

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Speaker 4: when you look at the kind of the global geopolitical situation,

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Speaker 4: one of the things we see all of our customers

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Speaker 4: around the world, they're looking to us for help on

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Speaker 4: defending their cyber security, whether it's from criminals or nation states.

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Speaker 4: And again they look in any conflict, now, all conflict

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Speaker 4: has a cyber security dimension, and so they're looking to

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Speaker 4: us as a leading security provider, whether it's on our

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Speaker 4: own platform or with our tools to help them.

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Speaker 2: Does it pick up because of the tensions that we're

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Speaker 2: seeing right now between the US and formally or still

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Speaker 2: it's allies, like, are you seeing any kind of uptick?

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Speaker 4: Not at this stage either. I mean, and that's not

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Speaker 4: necessarily a good news story because there's a constant backdrop

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Speaker 4: of cyber attacks all around the world that many companies

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Speaker 4: defend against, and so do we, and we help all

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Speaker 4: these companies defend themselves.

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Speaker 5: But have you've seen a change in perhaps nation states

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Speaker 5: such as Russia making attacks or trying to find vulnerabilities

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Speaker 5: in your system just in the last couple of months,

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Speaker 5: as we've seen a change in policy Russia from the

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Speaker 5: not any distinct new level.

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Speaker 4: But again there's a constant background level of attack you

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Speaker 4: do see, in particular see Russia targeting the supply chains

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Speaker 4: of organizations helping the Ukraine war effort. Interesting but that's

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Speaker 4: generally kind of all companies involved in that. We defend

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Speaker 4: our platform every day against the myriad of attacks.

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Speaker 5: Is would you say that there are certain geographies that

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Speaker 5: produce more of these attackers? Like where geographically are you defending?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think organized criminals are all around the world.

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Speaker 4: There's various concentrations. The big four nations we look at

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Speaker 4: all the time as source of attacks Russia, China, North Korea, Iran,

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Speaker 4: But cyber offense is a global phenomenon, not just.

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Speaker 5: Those those who's the most sophisticated.

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, you look at China's attacks recently

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Speaker 4: and some of the well publicized events, the so called

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Speaker 4: vault typhoon and salt typhoon events that have originated in China.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think a lot of these nations are

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Speaker 4: quite sophisticated. I think China has been the more aggressive

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Speaker 4: and assertive in recent times. Russia has got a history.

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Speaker 4: But they're all they're all still still maintaining their offense.

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Speaker 2: All right, So what does wiz brig you I got

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Speaker 2: to say when this deal crossed the Bloomberg term, of course,

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Speaker 2: you guys thirty two billion dollar acquisition. Whiz a startup

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Speaker 2: biggest cybersecurity focused.

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Speaker 3: Deal in history. Why do this deal? What does it

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Speaker 3: bring you guys?

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Speaker 4: Well, so it's all about multi cloud. So one of

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Speaker 4: the things we encounter in our support for our customers

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Speaker 4: is most of our customers are running on multiple clouds.

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Speaker 4: They have on premise environments, they have multiple SaaS companies,

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Speaker 4: and the big important thing is how do they maintain

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Speaker 4: a layer of security consistently across all of that. Wiz

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Speaker 4: has grown a tremendous product and business to do that.

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Speaker 4: We already have been focused on multi cloud security, multi

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Speaker 4: cloud operations, multi cloud tooling, and so it's a natural

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Speaker 4: affinity for us. How do we support customers where they

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Speaker 4: are in multiple clouds? That's the big impetus.

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Speaker 3: Is AI going to complicate all of this language models?

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Speaker 2: And it just feels like the buildout continues fill and

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Speaker 2: whether it's on premise or not.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we think AI actually gives a defenders a

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Speaker 4: more structure, structurally gives defenders an advantage versus attackers. Right now,

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Speaker 4: attackers are using AI, they're using it for misinformation, disinformation, frauds,

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Speaker 4: many things. But from a defensive purpose, AI empowers defenders

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Speaker 4: because we have the data, we have the context. We

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Speaker 4: have the ability to use it unique to our organization,

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Speaker 4: and our customers are finding that, and so there's a

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Speaker 4: structural advantage in how defenders use AI. Now, of course

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Speaker 4: they've got to take advantage of that advantage obviously, but

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Speaker 4: generally speaking, we're seeing more advances in the defensive use

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Speaker 4: of AI than we're currently seeing on offensive use of AI.

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Speaker 4: But the attackers are going to make use of AI

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Speaker 4: in the future as well.

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Speaker 5: Can you characterize how many steps in general you are

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Speaker 5: ahead of the most advanced attackers.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to do a kind of comparison like that

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Speaker 4: because you always have to look at specific attacks. But

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Speaker 4: the thing, main thing we're focused on with our threat

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Speaker 4: in intelligence capability, our defensive capability is just constantly, relentlessly

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Speaker 4: upgrading our infrastructure and then providing that security upgrade to

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Speaker 4: our customers through our platform and products.

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Speaker 5: How quickly are things moving right now, especially on the

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Speaker 5: AI front. I speak to some folks in the AI

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Speaker 5: world who say we're making leaps and bounds within twelve

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Speaker 5: week periods at this point. The piece of innovation is unbelievable.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, I think the pace of innovation

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Speaker 4: is increasing, whether it's on model development, whether it's on

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Speaker 4: the platforms that run the models, that contain the tooling

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Speaker 4: to let people get the best out of the models,

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Speaker 4: all the way up through what we're seeing now in

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Speaker 4: a revolution of how we're deploying AI agents to orchestrate

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Speaker 4: business processes and ultimately parts of our lives. And we're

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Speaker 4: all working very hard to look at how do we

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Speaker 4: make sure the agent environment is secured in the same

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Speaker 4: way that we would expect.

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Speaker 2: How fast is all of this happening, The changes, the

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Speaker 2: challenges like we keep up Deep Seek and how that

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Speaker 2: was you know earlier this year kind of a rethink

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, And I'm just curious how you

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Speaker 2: guys are seeing it, because you're dealing with a day

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Speaker 2: in and day out. We obviously get the headlines, We

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Speaker 2: get the announcements from the different companies and try to

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Speaker 2: keep up and watch what investors are doing.

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Speaker 3: But I'm just curious.

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Speaker 4: So we're seeing it in terms, I mean, where one

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Speaker 4: of the few companies that has the whole stack of AI,

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Speaker 4: from the models to the hardware, to the software, to

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Speaker 4: the platform infrastructure, and so we see in every part

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Speaker 4: of what we do, constant innovation and meeting customer expectations

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Speaker 4: and future custom in demand. We also see it because

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Speaker 4: we host many other models on our platform. A big

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Speaker 4: part of the value is the platform we bring where

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Speaker 4: customers can choose not just our models, but other models

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 2: So what's right in the narrative that's being talked, certainly

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Speaker 2: in the investment world, what's maybe wrong?

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Speaker 4: I don't think and not really seeing anything that's wrong.

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Speaker 4: I think mainly people are looking across the environment and

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Speaker 4: seeing how can we make best use of this technology

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Speaker 4: to fit our particular business need. And we're seeing more

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Speaker 4: and more prizes with our help, getting more sophisticated about

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Speaker 4: how quickly they cannot just tap into the innovation but

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Speaker 4: make that innovation productive in their business.

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Speaker 5: You mentioned the agentic side of things, and I want

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Speaker 5: to talk there a little bit as far as defense

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Speaker 5: and offense go. Something that I could imagine concerning people

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Speaker 5: in your position would be the information that agents have

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Speaker 5: and the information that agents are given. How do you

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Speaker 5: ensure that what agents are doing, whether from a consumer

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Speaker 5: perspective it's booking a vacation or booking flights, which you

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Speaker 5: can do, you know, with Chad Shept's two hundred dollars

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Speaker 5: a month plan how do you make sure that the

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Speaker 5: information that they have stays safe, stays secure and it

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Speaker 5: really isn't used for bad stuff.

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Speaker 4: Well, so it all comes down to who's building those agents,

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Speaker 4: And this is why I think it's important in this

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Speaker 4: environment to.

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Speaker 3: Be well, the way it's going, everybody's going to be

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Speaker 3: able to know that's right.

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Speaker 4: And so ultimately you're going to have like the tools

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Speaker 4: we provide people help people build agents that have privacy properties,

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Speaker 4: are controlled, are secured. But ultimate we're all going to

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Speaker 4: be responsible for making sure we look at the you know,

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Speaker 4: the agents we choose to use should have a degree

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Speaker 4: of trust from the companies we get them from. Now,

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Speaker 4: we and many other companies are working on multiple different

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Speaker 4: standards and frameworks to equip everybody through the platforms with

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Speaker 4: the ability to run agents securely. But there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of work still to be done on how you would

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Speaker 4: delegate your privilege to an agent to act on your behalf,

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Speaker 4: and everybody's working on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the autonomous right I mean in terms of agents

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Speaker 2: and like being able to kind of keep going and

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Speaker 2: make decisions and stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: True, well, and make decisions under the constraints you give it.

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Speaker 3: Right, the pull in stuff that you don't necessarily want

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Speaker 3: them to do right.

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Speaker 4: And how how a company constructs an agent to act

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Speaker 4: on your behalf and give you the transparency and feedback

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Speaker 4: about what you wanted to do is going to be

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Speaker 4: a key differentiator for companies that build these things.

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Speaker 5: Hey, thirty seconds before we let you go, I always

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Speaker 5: like to ask people in your position for one tip

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Speaker 5: on how we can stay safe in this new cyber world.

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Speaker 4: So use talking about gain here. Use the platforms and

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Speaker 4: the security defaults we built into the platforms. So we

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Speaker 4: spend a lot of time thinking about how we ship product,

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Speaker 4: how we ship platforms. We make the defaults as strong

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Speaker 4: as we can to protect people who come onto the platform.

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Speaker 4: Use the defaults, use the secure by design that we

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Speaker 4: provide and that people go along with.

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Speaker 3: All right, grit stuff, Thank you awesome, so appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Phil Vennable's Chief Information security Officer, Google Cloud, joining us

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Speaker 2: here in studio