WEBVTT - Part Four: How Jeffrey Epstein Helped Build the Modern World

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<v Speaker 1>Also media, welcome back for the last time today, I

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<v Speaker 1>guess or this week Behind the Bastards.

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<v Speaker 2>We're done with the Epstein Update episodes for now. This

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<v Speaker 2>this episode will be our last. Andrew T welcome back

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<v Speaker 2>to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh thanks, thanks, thanks and scare quotes for having.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks and scare quotes the only thanks we get here.

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<v Speaker 3>I realized what your show is. You're you're sort of

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<v Speaker 3>like just like a low mimetic version of The Ring

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<v Speaker 3>where yeah, after after having been on the show or

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<v Speaker 3>listening to it, you know, in seven days, you will

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<v Speaker 3>want to die. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's the That's that's what we go for

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<v Speaker 2>here at Behind the Bastards is to make all of

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<v Speaker 2>our listeners want to die.

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<v Speaker 3>Just the god. Now, you know what, less this has

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<v Speaker 3>been less grim than I thought it was going to be.

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<v Speaker 3>I will say not that it's not grim.

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<v Speaker 2>But the nice thing that's weird saying the night Andrew

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<v Speaker 2>doing these Epstein episodes is that we already did the

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<v Speaker 2>ones where we talked there's a lot more detail out now,

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<v Speaker 2>and we probably should at some point go back, but

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<v Speaker 2>we talked at length in the previous like four episodes

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<v Speaker 2>about all of the horrible sex trafficking crimes. So the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that we're just kind of focusing mostly on other

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<v Speaker 2>stuff here makes it less nightmarish than if we're just

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<v Speaker 2>going over all of the evidence of child molestation. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>not that we don't want to be highlighting that, but

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<v Speaker 2>we did, and everyone knows that stuff, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>this is also important, so we're getting into it.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, I'm still pretty scow.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know, there's a lot that makes me sad.

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<v Speaker 3>As I said, I'm still an earlier episode. It's like,

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<v Speaker 3>even without that shit, he would be one of the

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<v Speaker 3>worst people ever.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, And it's one of those things. If it

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<v Speaker 2>weren't for the fact that he was also the giant

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<v Speaker 2>pedophile guy, I probably wouldn't be writing about just Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 2>Epstein's because, for one thing, we just don't know. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of like did he actually get moot to

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<v Speaker 2>create Pole or no? Like right, we just will never know.

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<v Speaker 2>But because of the other stuff, like I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>we do have to talk about how deeply tired he

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<v Speaker 2>is to all of these massively important things that are

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<v Speaker 2>happening in society, that he's talking to the major players

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<v Speaker 2>and trying to convince them of things right. It's weird

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<v Speaker 2>because this is kind of the only behind the bastards

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<v Speaker 2>where for the most part, I'm saying like, well, we

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<v Speaker 2>know he was trying to do something with this bad thing,

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<v Speaker 2>but we don't know how he influenced this bad thing,

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<v Speaker 2>which we don't normally do here. But I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how else to handle Epstein right now, right.

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<v Speaker 3>We also don't know the history of everything that you know,

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<v Speaker 3>this band thing which is in progress.

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan Brodericks says, you know, Michael Wolfe probably connected Epstein

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<v Speaker 2>and Bannon in twenty seventeen, but there's evidence from earlier

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<v Speaker 2>that they would have known about each other, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>traveling in similar circles, but I can't prove they were

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<v Speaker 2>in contact earlier. But also millions of documents haven't been

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<v Speaker 2>released yet, so like who knows what else there is?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, right, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Or did Bannon used to have a different email, right

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<v Speaker 2>and it wasn't under his name? I don't know. There

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<v Speaker 2>may be early emails for them under different emails in

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<v Speaker 2>the files that we just haven't found because it's not

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<v Speaker 2>immediately clear that it's banning yet. There's stuff like that

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<v Speaker 2>people have talked about, like JK Rowling, how like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>she definitely he was on the invite list for you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the Harry Potter play when it opened, but she says

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<v Speaker 2>they had no direct connection. There's not really hard evidence

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<v Speaker 2>of a direct connection. But there is an email with

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<v Speaker 2>a cinder redacted where it signed the way JK. Rowling

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes signs stuff, but that's not conclusive. So I don't know, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And hopefully as more stuff comes out, maybe there is

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<v Speaker 2>even more about her in the current files that just

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<v Speaker 2>haven't been found yet because people we haven't No one

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<v Speaker 2>knows everything that's in these files yet. Stuff's being found

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<v Speaker 2>every day, right, So that's one of the issues with

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<v Speaker 2>this is that I decided there was enough obviously for

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<v Speaker 2>four episodes now, but in a year, people will probably

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<v Speaker 2>be angry at you, Well you left this out well

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<v Speaker 2>because people aren't found yet. I don't know, man like,

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<v Speaker 2>or there's stuff I know I'm leaving out now that

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<v Speaker 2>I did find that was on my research doc that

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<v Speaker 2>I was just like, well, this is forty two pages long.

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<v Speaker 2>We got to call it somewhere, huhh.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know what, that's the beauty of podcasting. There's

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<v Speaker 3>always more podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the beauty of podcasting. You can always say good enough.

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<v Speaker 2>You know who else said good enough? Nope, that's a

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<v Speaker 2>bad way to talk about the Ferguson.

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<v Speaker 4>You're surely not doing that, Nope.

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<v Speaker 2>But we are starting with Ferguson in this episode. It's

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<v Speaker 2>very relevant to Jeffrey Epstein's intellectual journey because I've been

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<v Speaker 2>talking about ah Well. Obviously, the fact that he got

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<v Speaker 2>arrested in trouble has an impact on him because a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of his behavior seems to shift. He gets born

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<v Speaker 2>too right wing stuff. But that's also happening to his

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<v Speaker 2>whole community. All these tech billionaires and rich finance guys

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<v Speaker 2>are getting more pilled in the two thousands about this

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<v Speaker 2>stuff anyway. So maybe it would have happened if he

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't gotten convicted of anything. But there's a definite moment

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<v Speaker 2>that we can fairly easily say had a big impact

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<v Speaker 2>on how Jeffrey Epstein thought about the world, and it's Ferguson.

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<v Speaker 2>On August tenth, twenty fourteen, Ferguson, Missouri police officer Darren

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<v Speaker 2>Wilson shot Michael Brown and killed him. There were protests immediately,

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<v Speaker 2>and some people used the opportunity of the protests to

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<v Speaker 2>loot and engage in other criminal activity. The police are

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<v Speaker 2>included in the criminal activity that occurs after this shooting

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<v Speaker 2>because they're violence. In the fact that they all looked

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<v Speaker 2>like fucking soldiers kicked off further unrest and a national debate.

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<v Speaker 2>You all probably lived through pieces of this. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>going to re litigate everything that happened in Ferguson, but

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<v Speaker 2>the basics of it are very relevant to the Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 2>Epstein story because Ferguson wasn't just a tragedy in its

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<v Speaker 2>own right. It was a prelude to mass protests in

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<v Speaker 2>the wake of George Floyd's murder in twenty twenty, but

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<v Speaker 2>it also helped to inspire the fascist backlash that first

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<v Speaker 2>made itself obvious when mister Donald Trump announced his presidency

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<v Speaker 2>on June sixteenth, twenty fifteen. I don't think it's focused

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<v Speaker 2>on enough how close Ferguson is in time to Trump

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<v Speaker 2>announcing the start of his campaign, and how many older

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<v Speaker 2>white people with money see the videos from Ferguson of

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<v Speaker 2>the protests of these crowds of mostly black people who

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<v Speaker 2>are very rightfully angry and get fucking terrified, right because

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<v Speaker 2>they see this as stirrings of the kind of race

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<v Speaker 2>riots that they've never stopped fearing. Now we know that

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<v Speaker 2>Epstein began donating to far right content creators and talking

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<v Speaker 2>very openly about race science in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen,

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<v Speaker 2>not long after Ferguson, And we know that he paid

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<v Speaker 2>close attention on what was happening in Ferguson from an

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<v Speaker 2>early point, and that he talked about his predictions for

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<v Speaker 2>what might happen next with one of his good friends,

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<v Speaker 2>former Israeli Prime Minister at Hud Barack fucking well, no,

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<v Speaker 2>fucking it's always and then he talked about it with

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<v Speaker 2>his friend, this influential monster.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm just saying, he's the Where's walthough of fat guys.

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<v Speaker 4>He's fucking everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>He really fucking is now in ways that.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't even always make sense to It's just like it

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<v Speaker 3>feels like they're the writer's just cramming in mon Man.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess he hasn't shown up in the show for

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<v Speaker 2>a while. Bring hood Barack in, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>How'd that friendship start? Do we know?

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<v Speaker 3>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure it's there's information about that one, because he's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the guys we knew was an Epstein friend

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<v Speaker 2>way before the releases started, right, they've been very like

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<v Speaker 2>publicly buddies. So what happens here is Michael Brown gets

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<v Speaker 2>shot in Ferguson and protests start, right, Yeah, And Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 2>at some point, probably pretty soon after that, is talking

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<v Speaker 2>with a hood Barack and says, here's what I think's

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<v Speaker 2>going to happen next, right, and like lays out a

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<v Speaker 2>prediction for what's going to happen to Ferguson. And we

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<v Speaker 2>don't know exactly what that prediction was or what he said,

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<v Speaker 2>but we do know that on November twenty fourth, a

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<v Speaker 2>grand jury fails to indict Wilson for killing Michael Brown.

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<v Speaker 2>More protests follow, and some people respond to a man

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<v Speaker 2>getting away with murder by rioting. Police cars are burned.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a murder of a man in a parked car.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really unclear, I think still who does that and

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<v Speaker 2>why that happens, But it's a big deal, right. What

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<v Speaker 2>happens in Ferguson in November of that year is like

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<v Speaker 2>hugely influential all across the country. On November twenty sixth,

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<v Speaker 2>two days after the grand jury fails to indict Wilson,

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<v Speaker 2>a hud Barak sends this email to Jeffrey Epstein that

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<v Speaker 2>you're seeing on your screen right now. Jeff, you've accurately

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<v Speaker 2>predicted the eruption, and together we'd predicted the mistakes which

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<v Speaker 2>will follow. Let's hope it won't get worse. Ari, light

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<v Speaker 2>and strong. I'll call you tomorrow morning. Your time, best,

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<v Speaker 2>eb And then he's linked there a CEE in an

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<v Speaker 2>article called Ferguson braces for more unrest. Right, So, I

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<v Speaker 2>want to really emphasize what's happening here. Jeffrey is concerned

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<v Speaker 2>enough about the potential of race riots in the United

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<v Speaker 2>States that he's like looking for them. So as soon

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<v Speaker 2>as Ferguson happens, he is concerned, and he reaches out

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<v Speaker 2>to his friend, who he thinks would be the best

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<v Speaker 2>friend to talk to about his fear that a racial

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<v Speaker 2>minority in his country is getting violent, the former Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister of Israel. Okay, there's a lot, a lot you

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<v Speaker 2>can read into this conversation.

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<v Speaker 4>Right boy, how I hate them all?

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<v Speaker 2>So I think Ferguson has a lot to do with

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<v Speaker 2>why the next year, Epstein sends twenty five thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 2>to a white nationalist YouTube, Right, I think it has

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to do with a lot of shit that follows.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it has a lot to do with why

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<v Speaker 2>he starts reading fucking Breitbart.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I've talked in other episodes. We've known for a while

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<v Speaker 2>that Epstein had a weird obsession with seeding his own

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<v Speaker 2>DNA into the human race, and our previous episodes we

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<v Speaker 2>talked about how he had discussed with his friends that

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<v Speaker 2>he wanted to have a stud ranch where women would

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<v Speaker 2>raise his babies and the babies of other genius men.

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<v Speaker 2>He talked about this, both want to I need to

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<v Speaker 2>have a lot of babies for the good of mankind,

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<v Speaker 2>and also obviously smart people should be the ones having

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<v Speaker 2>basy eugenicist right, he's talking this is Elon Muskshit. He's friends,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but he's interested in the same kind of

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<v Speaker 2>stuff and absent other informations. When I first cover this,

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<v Speaker 2>I chalked it up as more classic rich guy narcissism.

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<v Speaker 2>My immediate thing was like, oh, this guy wants a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of kids because he's a narcissist, and I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really see oh no, no. This guy is also very

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<v Speaker 2>specifically a white nationalist, right, a budding white nationalist at

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<v Speaker 2>the very least which Epstein is. By this point, the

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<v Speaker 2>releases have made this different picture very clear, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think it makes the most sense when you look at

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<v Speaker 2>it through the prism a Ferguson. An article on futurism

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<v Speaker 2>dot com describes how Jeff's interests evolved after Ferguson. In

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<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen, Epstein emailed German cognitive scientist and then MIT

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<v Speaker 2>professor Joshua Bach, indicating that he was interested in the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of genetically modifying black people to make them smarter.

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<v Speaker 2>The Telegraph found Bach had received a roughly four hundred

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars donation from Epstein. Those are tied, that's tied

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<v Speaker 2>to his interpretation of Ferguson. And that's not a small donation.

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<v Speaker 4>It's just a fucking freaking little race science nazi.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's just a race scientist. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, but that's like conservatives, right, That is like

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<v Speaker 3>the extent loss is also the other way to look

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<v Speaker 3>at it is this is cutting edge conservative thought and

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<v Speaker 3>it has been from the last however many thousands of years.

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<v Speaker 3>This is as good as it gets for these people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and you know it's one of those things.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously he's afraid of Black Americans, and this fear was

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<v Speaker 2>heightened by Ferguson, but also just given a social life.

0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:41.319
<v Speaker 2>He's social a lot with wealthy and influential and famous

0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.440
<v Speaker 2>black people, right, So he's not the kind of racist

0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.400
<v Speaker 2>who can't be friendly to some black people, right. He

0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.479
<v Speaker 2>obviously can. But his conversations with his fellow white intellectuals,

0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.640
<v Speaker 2>or at least he saw himself as intellectual, made it

0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.400
<v Speaker 2>clear that he saw successful and intelligent black people as outliers.

0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.720
<v Speaker 2>And when you really want to get into how racist

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Jeff Epstein is by twenty sixteen, there's no better place

0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:03.800
<v Speaker 2>to go.

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.959
<v Speaker 4>Huh hey when you call him Jeff Jeffy.

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.840
<v Speaker 2>There's no better way to talk about how fucking racist

0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein has become by twenty sixteen than to look

0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:20.520
<v Speaker 2>at his emails with Nom Chomsky. Oh no, oh no.

0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.440
<v Speaker 2>On Sunday, February seventh, twenty sixteen, Jeff emailed Nome after

0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.559
<v Speaker 2>apparently hanging out together. So he had been hanging out

0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.840
<v Speaker 2>with Nome and I guess Nome's partner that night because

0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.960
<v Speaker 2>he says thank you both for tonight, and then he

0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.760
<v Speaker 2>tells Noam Chomsky that hey, man, if you want I

0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.199
<v Speaker 2>can have my private jet, the Lalita Express, pick you

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.280
<v Speaker 2>up in Boston and take you to my private island

0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.400
<v Speaker 2>and return whenever you like. Right, and Nome calls this

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.199
<v Speaker 2>invitation eight years after Epstein had been exposed for child

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.800
<v Speaker 2>sex trafficking tempting. Now, maybe he's just blowing Jeffrey off here,

0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.120
<v Speaker 2>but Epstein doesn't read it that way. Epstein takes Noam

0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Chomsky's response as an invitation to keep chatting, this time

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.200
<v Speaker 2>about racism, so he continues. After inviting him to his

0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.960
<v Speaker 2>sex island, he says, on a different note, you have

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:12.839
<v Speaker 2>encouraged me to look at data, no holds barred mortgages, inequalities, opportunities.

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:14.720
<v Speaker 2>I have seen some things through your eyes, and for

0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.760
<v Speaker 2>that I am grateful. The test score gap amongst African

0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Americans is well documented twenty years of and then he

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:25.080
<v Speaker 2>spells testing testsing many, which might be said to like,

0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 2>if you can't spell the word testing right, maybe your

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.320
<v Speaker 2>complaints about other people that are smart issue are kind

0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:36.280
<v Speaker 2>of bullshit. But he continues many countries. James Watson, who's

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 2>the racist guy who helped or arguably helped figure out

0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.040
<v Speaker 2>the structure of DNA and was also like a DNA

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 2>show like black people learn as smart as white people. Guy, right,

0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 2>James Watson big racist?

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:47.600
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 2>So Epstein continues, James Watson had some of his private

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.200
<v Speaker 2>views made public and hints his dismissal from society. He

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.360
<v Speaker 2>told me that after one sentence he became an un

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 2>person making things and he spells the word things wrong.

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Better might require accepting some uncomfortable facts. You told me that.

0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:08.080
<v Speaker 2>So this is Epstein broaching a conversation with Chomsky. Hey,

0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.360
<v Speaker 2>you know you told me to look at the data. Well,

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.280
<v Speaker 2>let's convince me that racism's right. How do you think

0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.319
<v Speaker 2>about that? Nom Chomsky? And no, and I get is no.

0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.720
<v Speaker 4>I'm like you're yeah, yeah, brother, No I No.

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Nome pushes back, I will say that, okay, right. Nome

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 2>pushes back, and he points out that like, obviously, outcomes

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 2>for some a kid like me when I was a kid,

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 2>are going to be different from a kid that quote

0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.440
<v Speaker 2>is part of a group that for four hundred years,

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.600
<v Speaker 2>had a chance for about two or three decades to

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 2>enter the mainstream society, and then with a constant legacy

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.880
<v Speaker 2>of miserable racism. He's being like, yeah, of course, skills

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 2>will be lower because like our society hurts these people

0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.280
<v Speaker 2>their entire lives, and that impacts test scores. Right, that's

0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.640
<v Speaker 2>what Chomsky is saying. Right. He says that Epstein's data

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 2>has no scientific interest, but he also says the greater

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 2>issue is for later discussion, which I find interesting. Chomsky

0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.240
<v Speaker 2>knows this is bullshit. He knows what his friend is

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 2>saying is offensive, and he says kind of that. But

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 2>then he's like, but we can talk about this later.

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 2>You know you want to keep talking. I'm always down

0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 2>to talk about race science with you. Jeffrey Epstein, though,

0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 2>doesn't take the hint, and he keeps the conversation going.

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.160
<v Speaker 2>He admits that he's aware of the potential for abuse

0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.320
<v Speaker 2>with genetic engineering and eugenics. However, imagine that a set

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 2>of genes could be used for working memory, like the

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.479
<v Speaker 2>ones for tay Sacks disease could be found and adjusted

0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 2>not looking seems cruel. And he's bringing up the argument

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 2>that anyone makes if you're trying to convince a hostile source,

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 2>that you need to accept the initial tenets of eugenesis, thinking, well, look,

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 2>obviously there's problems with this, Yeah, but look at this

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 2>horrible disease that happens to kids when they're in the womb.

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 2>If you could knock that out, wouldn't that be good? Right?

0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Wouldn't that be good?

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:45.160
<v Speaker 3>Do you hate kids?

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.960
<v Speaker 2>And like anyone's gonna say, like, yeah, what if we

0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:49.800
<v Speaker 2>could make kids who have their lungs born on the

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 2>outside of their bodies have their lungs on the inside

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 2>of their bodies? Great? But then the conversation goes from

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>there to like, what if we want to make sure

0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 2>that people aren't born with a certain skin color? And

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that's interesting to me is that, like,

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 2>if you are at a eugenicist and you're trying to

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.080
<v Speaker 2>like corrupt someone right and get them to agree with you,

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 2>you'll start the way that Jeffrey ends here, which is weird.

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 2>You don't start with, Hey, i've been looking at the

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.080
<v Speaker 2>numbers and it looks like black people aren't a smart

0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.720
<v Speaker 2>as white people. That's not how you start that conversation.

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 2>And Epstein does, and then Chomsky smacks him down, and

0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 2>so Epstein pivots and he ends whe The conversation normally

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.440
<v Speaker 2>starts where he's like, well, what about these kids with

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 2>tas SAXS disease? Should we be fixing that, right, Chomsky

0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 2>calls Jeff's proposition almost inconceivable and then says, but if

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:40.640
<v Speaker 2>it could be done, I think there would be far

0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 2>more important uses, like changing the genes for dedicated savagery

0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 2>and lack of concern for the welfare or even security

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>of the population on the part of that sector of

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.200
<v Speaker 2>educated elites that reaches positions of power. And I'd love

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 2>to appreciate that response more if he wasn't sending it

0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 2>to his friend Jeffrey Epstein's who continued to communicate with

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 2>for years after his arrests for sexual trafficking.

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 3>I mean, but I think the thing is in the

0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.480
<v Speaker 3>frat house version of it. This is just like ribbing

0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:14.159
<v Speaker 3>because you know, right, Oh, that's Jeff's foible. He's a

0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.399
<v Speaker 3>fucking pedophile fascist. We can all joke about that. Yeah,

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 3>Like it's the chumminess.

0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 2>That's like, it's the friendliness, but it's the you could, yeah,

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 2>it's the chomp the fact that he's so willing to

0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 2>continue this relationship, right, Yeah, I mean you could, I

0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.639
<v Speaker 2>guess if you wanted to feel good that. Chomsky pushes back,

0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:38.560
<v Speaker 2>but he keeps hanging out with Epstein repeatedly in person,

0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 2>they hang out in person a lot that's fucked up.

0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.080
<v Speaker 3>I mean it's it's also the like like not a

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.679
<v Speaker 3>real pushback if you're like, it's not a real stone.

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.240
<v Speaker 2>No, And it's what we see here. And one of

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:54.959
<v Speaker 2>the reasons why this is really interesting to me not

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:56.840
<v Speaker 2>just to like shit on no Chompsky. I don't really

0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 2>care about that one way or the other. What this

0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.400
<v Speaker 2>is evidence of is as an active attempt by Epstein

0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 2>to influence Noam Chomsky, who is himself very influential on

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 2>the American left, to try and further mainstream scientific racism.

0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 2>That's what he's doing here. He is trying to get

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Chomsky to start going down the road he's going down

0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.440
<v Speaker 2>because he knows Chomsky can influence in even a large

0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 2>chunk of the country and maybe make them more amenable

0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.120
<v Speaker 2>to scientific racism. That's what he's trying to do because

0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.400
<v Speaker 2>that's how Jeffrey thinks about everyone who's his quote unquote friend, right.

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.000
<v Speaker 2>He thinks about them in terms of what can I

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:28.880
<v Speaker 2>get out of them, And that's how he's thinking about

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Chomsky during this convert There's other stuff he gets from Chomsky, obviously,

0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.040
<v Speaker 2>but this is one thing he's trying to get and

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 2>that he doesn't seem to get out of him. It's

0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 2>the same playbook we saw Epstein to play with Bobby Kotick, right,

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 2>this is how he operates. What these new files reveal

0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.200
<v Speaker 2>is that Jeffrey Epstein was an active and influential part

0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 2>of the reactionary wave often just called the alt right

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.840
<v Speaker 2>that's struck from twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen and brought

0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 2>us all the authoritarian bullshit we're living with today. He's

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.360
<v Speaker 2>a part of that, and he's trying to bring Chomsky

0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.960
<v Speaker 2>into it right. A huge part, well, Chomsky does. A

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:02.840
<v Speaker 2>huge part of the class that he's a part of

0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.600
<v Speaker 2>follows him down this road. And part of why they

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.440
<v Speaker 2>do is because Epstein works on them one by one

0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.960
<v Speaker 2>to encourage them to think differently and to ask uncomfortable questions.

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.800
<v Speaker 2>He's not the only one doing this, right, He's not

0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.159
<v Speaker 2>the leading one doing this. Part of why all of

0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.200
<v Speaker 2>these Silicon Valley guys go fash is that a core

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.119
<v Speaker 2>of them start by saying like, well as the brain

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.479
<v Speaker 2>trust in America is is the only ones who are

0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 2>really intelligent, I really know what's going on. Because of

0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.240
<v Speaker 2>all the money we've made it's incumbent on us to

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.760
<v Speaker 2>ask uncomfortable questions and you know, to consider things that

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.240
<v Speaker 2>that less intelligent people might consider forbidden. You know, so

0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.600
<v Speaker 2>let's look into it, right, And that always just means racism.

0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.120
<v Speaker 2>That's the only thing that means, right.

0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Well, sometimes it's a little bit of gender science

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 3>and masada and sometimes pedophilia.

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are, there are. And I can remember as

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.959
<v Speaker 2>a kid there's this big book called Disinfo that I

0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.560
<v Speaker 2>read that was like, it was a bunch of essays

0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 2>about uncomfortable questions, challenging traditional logic and ethics, right, and

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.600
<v Speaker 2>I found parts of it very interesting, And then I

0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 2>got to an essay that was like, oh, this guy's

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:16.240
<v Speaker 2>just arguing about fucking kids. Oh that's what this is about.

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 3>This is it? Yeah, well but it's the same thing why.

0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.160
<v Speaker 3>It's why Anne Rand is appealing when you're like fucking fourteen, right,

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.440
<v Speaker 3>because you don't know anything. But once you learn something,

0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:33.960
<v Speaker 3>most people at least Yeah.

0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:37.879
<v Speaker 2>And it's these fuckers talk all the time about uncomfortable

0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.399
<v Speaker 2>questions and challenging orthodoxy, and not one of them will

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.480
<v Speaker 2>be like, hey, what if we just didn't have billionaires

0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.040
<v Speaker 2>in money, like what we uh, what if we didn't

0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.679
<v Speaker 2>do that? What if you couldn't like just throw a

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.800
<v Speaker 2>bunch of money into a thing and then own thousands

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.240
<v Speaker 2>of people's livelihoods because you were born rich. What if

0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 2>that was not a thing we could do? Like, that's

0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.240
<v Speaker 2>not the dangerous questions. It's all like, what if black

0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.359
<v Speaker 2>people aren't people like that's the dangerous question? Or what

0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.480
<v Speaker 2>if fifteen year olds are fine to have sex with

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Those are the dangerous questions that the intellectuals are always

0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 2>talking about when they say dangerous questions. And Jeffrey Shift

0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.560
<v Speaker 2>here his interest in this shit, That's what I'm trying

0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.000
<v Speaker 2>to say. Like all of he is not novel. He

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.160
<v Speaker 2>has more influence than most, but a lot of these

0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 2>guys are thinking the same way, and he's using his

0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.359
<v Speaker 2>money to support and encourage them to continue this shift.

0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.399
<v Speaker 2>And I want to tell a story that kind of

0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:29.359
<v Speaker 2>makes this point for me. And the story starts with

0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the guy named John Brockman. Brockman is a major figure

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.360
<v Speaker 2>in the New York art scenes starting in the nineteen sixties.

0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.480
<v Speaker 2>He is a peer of Andy Warhol, and he eventually

0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.280
<v Speaker 2>becomes one of the most powerful literary agents in the city.

0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.800
<v Speaker 2>His specialty is books about science and futurism, and he

0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.560
<v Speaker 2>works with big name academics and thinkers, which means that

0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.720
<v Speaker 2>he makes a lot of money. Brockman describes himself as

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 2>a cultural impresario. Right sure man, cool cool.

0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, already don't like you, my guyen ninety.

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:04.120
<v Speaker 2>He creates the Edge Foundation. This is an informal association

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 2>of intellectuals who meet primarily online, and this is seen

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.800
<v Speaker 2>as a digital evolution from an older similar group that

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.320
<v Speaker 2>met in person called the Reality Club. The Reality Club

0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.680
<v Speaker 2>we're getting back in American intellectual tradition by a few

0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.560
<v Speaker 2>decades here. But the Reality Club per an article on

0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:22.320
<v Speaker 2>their own website, I'm going to talk about like what

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.639
<v Speaker 2>this group was. Reality Club members presented their work with

0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.199
<v Speaker 2>the understanding that they will be challenged. The hallmark of

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 2>the Reality Club has been rigorous and sometimes impolite discourse.

0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:33.359
<v Speaker 2>The motto of the Club was inspired by the late

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.480
<v Speaker 2>artist philosopher James Lee Byers to arrive at the edge

0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:38.840
<v Speaker 2>of the world's knowledge, seek out the most complex and

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.480
<v Speaker 2>sophisticated minds, put them in a room together, and have

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.080
<v Speaker 2>him ask each other the questions they are asking themselves.

0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.200
<v Speaker 2>And that's a great idea. It's a beautiful idea. We've

0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.560
<v Speaker 2>hit the edge of the world's knowledge. Let's get the

0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.240
<v Speaker 2>smartest people together to see if we can extend that edge.

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 2>But what happens James Lee byers his whole abilities that

0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.359
<v Speaker 2>this will let us accomplish the extraordinary, right, But what

0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.320
<v Speaker 2>actually happens is when these guys get together, primarily they

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.160
<v Speaker 2>talk about like what if people couldn't vote if they

0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:10.159
<v Speaker 2>were poor, what if we had more money, what if

0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I could fuck teenage girls? Those are like the three

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.440
<v Speaker 2>big issues at the edge of human knowledge that these

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:17.520
<v Speaker 2>guys are really interested in it.

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 3>It's like, as you said, the idea of the club

0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:23.720
<v Speaker 3>seems cool, like with the additional caveat that, like anytime

0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:26.760
<v Speaker 3>anything like that has ever existed in all of human history,

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:31.480
<v Speaker 3>it's always self. Self proclaiming that you fit these attributes

0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.760
<v Speaker 3>is pretty much the main reason you should not ever

0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 3>be part of the discussion like this.

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the things Einstein would have point

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.480
<v Speaker 2>out to these people is that if you have locked

0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 2>yourself out as being the absolute smartest in society and

0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:47.879
<v Speaker 2>are isolating yourself from everybody else, it's probably evidence that

0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.400
<v Speaker 2>you're not the smartest people in society. Yeah, but Brockman

0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 2>really loves this idea. He considers these.

0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:56.680
<v Speaker 3>People always love this shit.

0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he's you know, I don't know much about him,

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.399
<v Speaker 2>but he other than that, but he considers these scientists

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and these other thinkers in the empirical space, the guys

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.359
<v Speaker 2>that Epstein is hanging out with, these philosophers and bitcoin

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:12.000
<v Speaker 2>nerds and whatnot. He calls them the third culture. That's

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.160
<v Speaker 2>his term for these people, right, because they're separate from

0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:17.520
<v Speaker 2>the culture everyone else lives in, because their minds are

0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:18.880
<v Speaker 2>so far ahead of everyone else.

0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:19.200
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Brockman is close with Jeffrey Epstein, and he considers him

0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:24.800
<v Speaker 2>to be one of these Third Culture members who, through

0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:28.440
<v Speaker 2>their unusual insight and brilliance, are making the future. Brockman

0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 2>is such an Epstein believer that he attends a dinner

0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.800
<v Speaker 2>at Jeff's mansion after he was released from prison. In

0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:38.040
<v Speaker 2>the New Republic of Ginny Morozov describes Brockman as the

0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:42.760
<v Speaker 2>intellectual enabler of Epstein. Brockman bragged that the edge foundation,

0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 2>this salon of his was redefining who and what we are,

0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:49.720
<v Speaker 2>and he connected Epstein to important people because he wanted

0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.280
<v Speaker 2>his friend Jeff to have a chance to change the world. Now,

0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.679
<v Speaker 2>one of Brockman's clients is joy Edo of MIT and

0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.280
<v Speaker 2>in fact, Brockman may have been how Epstein and Itedo met.

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:02.320
<v Speaker 2>He may have at least helped to encourage them to

0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:06.320
<v Speaker 2>become friends. We know many other prominent intellectuals like Stephen Pinker,

0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.280
<v Speaker 2>were first connected to Epstein by Brockman. So in a way,

0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Brockman has been with us this whole story, helping to

0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 2>put up and coming technologists, thinkers, and researchers in a

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:18.679
<v Speaker 2>room with a pedophile sex trafficker. When all of this dropped,

0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 2>author of Jenny Morozov found himself shocked. His books were

0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:26.080
<v Speaker 2>represented by Brockman's agency, and he decided to look through

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 2>his emails with Brockman to see, like, are there any

0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:31.639
<v Speaker 2>signs that like something bad was going on here? And

0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:35.960
<v Speaker 2>he finds an email from twenty thirteen that really gives

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:38.560
<v Speaker 2>you an idea of how Brockman and Epstein baited the

0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:42.200
<v Speaker 2>hook when they're trying to get these intellectuals interested in them. Right,

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:44.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to quote from Morozov's article in the New

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Republic here. It was very laconic. Je Fyi JB followed

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:52.240
<v Speaker 2>by my short bio and some media clippings. Strangely, it

0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:54.639
<v Speaker 2>was sent to me and had no other contacts in CC.

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Perhaps he wanted toscend it to JE but put my

0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 2>email there by mistake. When I commented on the meaning

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.120
<v Speaker 2>of this cryptic message, he responded with the following message,

0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 2>reproduced here in full. I missed that one. Jeffrey Epstein,

0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 2>the billionaire scientist philanthropists, showed up at this weekends event

0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:13.280
<v Speaker 2>by helicopter with his beautiful young assistant from Belarus. He'll

0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 2>be in Cambridge in a couple of weeks and asked

0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:17.159
<v Speaker 2>me who he should meet. You are one of the

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 2>people I suggested, and I told him I would send

0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:21.960
<v Speaker 2>some links. He's the guy who gave Harvard thirty million

0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 2>dollars to set up Martin Oak. He's been incredibly generous

0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:27.240
<v Speaker 2>and funding projects of many of our friends and clients.

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 2>He also got into trouble and spent a year in

0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 2>jail in Florida. Crazy way to say he's a registered

0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 2>child sex offender. He't got into trouble spend a year

0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:38.600
<v Speaker 2>in jail in Florida.

0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:40.320
<v Speaker 3>I spent a year Jill, Florida.

0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:44.520
<v Speaker 4>We've lost the plot, guys, come on, come on.

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:51.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's like mentioning young young assistant is like, I mean,

0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 3>obviously that's how they would do it, but like, yeah,

0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:56.399
<v Speaker 3>like what's wrong with you?

0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:57.800
<v Speaker 4>Like I hate these people.

0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:01.560
<v Speaker 3>If you wrote dialogue this heavy hand, you would absolutely

0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 3>be run out of out of Hollywood, absolutely and in

0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:09.520
<v Speaker 3>a heartbeat, yeah.

0:27:09.200 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, that's all nuts. But Brockman suggests that if Epstein

0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:16.480
<v Speaker 2>reaches reached out to Morozov, it's probably worth your time

0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to respond to him, right, so's he's basically being like,

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:21.880
<v Speaker 2>and I don't even know if this missed email isn't

0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:25.560
<v Speaker 2>intentional or not, if he's like trying to whatever he

0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:29.800
<v Speaker 2>is sending Epstein information about this guy, and he's telling Morozov,

0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:32.840
<v Speaker 2>I know he's you know, he's he's a controversial figure,

0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:35.119
<v Speaker 2>but you should meet with him. He's really interesting and

0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:36.959
<v Speaker 2>obviously he's got a lot of money that he can

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:37.920
<v Speaker 2>put towards your work.

0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:38.400
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.280
<v Speaker 2>And then, after saying it's worth probably worth your time,

0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Brockman tells this story about Epstein. Last time I visited

0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:47.600
<v Speaker 2>his house, the largest private residence in New York City.

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:49.600
<v Speaker 2>I walked in to find him in a sweatsuit and

0:27:49.640 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 2>a British guy in a suit with suspenders getting foot

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.240
<v Speaker 2>massages from two young, well dressed Russian women. After grilling

0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:58.080
<v Speaker 2>me for a while about cybersecurity. The brit named Andy

0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 2>was commenting on the Swedish author and the chargers against

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Julian Assange. We think they're liberal in Sweden, but it's

0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 2>more like northern England as opposed to southern Europe, he said.

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:09.520
<v Speaker 2>In Monaco, Albert works twelve hours a day, but at

0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:11.480
<v Speaker 2>nine pm when he goes out, he does whatever he

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:13.800
<v Speaker 2>wants and nobody cares. But if I do it, I'm

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 2>in big trouble. At that point I realized the recipient

0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 2>of Arena's foot massage was his Royal Highness, Prince Andrew,

0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:24.399
<v Speaker 2>the Duke of York. Now Brockman is telling this story

0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 2>because he thinks it's cool. He thinks it'll convince Morozov.

0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:29.879
<v Speaker 2>He's just gotta meet Epstein.

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:30.840
<v Speaker 3>WHOA.

0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 2>I walked in on him and the largest residence in

0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:37.000
<v Speaker 2>New York, and he was getting He was clearly hanging

0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:40.320
<v Speaker 2>out with two prostitutes and the fucking Prince Andrew, the

0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Duke of York. That's so I gotta get in on

0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:48.280
<v Speaker 2>that myself, you know, that's what why Brockman tells this story, right, Yes, there.

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:51.400
<v Speaker 3>Is like a hindsight lens that like, obviously we know,

0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 3>but yeah.

0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:57.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean I will see. Yeah, there's a who knows

0:28:57.040 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 2>what Brockman was entirely aware of, but I will see

0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:03.040
<v Speaker 2>in terms of the people who knew this was fucked

0:29:03.080 --> 0:29:05.440
<v Speaker 2>up at the time. Morizov gets this email and it's

0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:08.640
<v Speaker 2>like absolutely not right, I don't I don't want any

0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 2>part of this shit. And he says that five fuck

0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:17.960
<v Speaker 2>that stuff, man, that sounds weird. And then Brockman changes

0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:22.800
<v Speaker 2>his attitude and it's like, yeah, okay. So Morozov's conclusion

0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>is that Brockman was acted basically as Epstein's pr man,

0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:29.840
<v Speaker 2>and he does this because he needs Epstein. Epstein is

0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:35.480
<v Speaker 2>funding the whole Edge Foundation. Jeffrey's assorted donations provided six

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:37.760
<v Speaker 2>hundred and thirty eight thousand of the eight hundred and

0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:40.600
<v Speaker 2>fifty seven thousand dollars in funding the organization received from

0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:44.320
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and one to twenty seventeen. Epstein was, per

0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:48.400
<v Speaker 2>BuzzFeed News, by far the largest donor. In fact, one

0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:51.400
<v Speaker 2>could argue the Edge Foundation and all its billionaire dinners

0:29:51.640 --> 0:29:54.720
<v Speaker 2>seem to have existed largely to connect Jeffrey Epstein to

0:29:54.760 --> 0:29:57.960
<v Speaker 2>tech billionaires in public intellectuals right, because one of the

0:29:58.040 --> 0:30:00.520
<v Speaker 2>things they start doing in the aunts is Rockman starts

0:30:00.520 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 2>putting together dinners with billionaires like that. They call it

0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:08.160
<v Speaker 2>the Billionaire Dinners, and Epstein's nearly always there. Right. Given

0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the private nature of these events, we don't fully know

0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 2>what he used his influence to do, but he wouldn't

0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:15.080
<v Speaker 2>have put more than six hundred thousand dollars into this

0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:19.480
<v Speaker 2>foundation if it wasn't worth it to him. One regular

0:30:19.600 --> 0:30:21.920
<v Speaker 2>tradition was that Brockman would send out a list of

0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:24.640
<v Speaker 2>questions for the members of the Edge Foundation to answer

0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:28.400
<v Speaker 2>each year, like what is your dangerous idea? The answers

0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:30.840
<v Speaker 2>would be published on their website, which The Guardian called

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:34.560
<v Speaker 2>the World's Smartest. So again, everyone's sucking these people off

0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 2>in the odds. Brockman also used his influence to host

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:40.440
<v Speaker 2>annual billionaires dinners, as I mentioned, and Epstein was a

0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:43.840
<v Speaker 2>common feature. This is how some major tech billionaires wind

0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:48.080
<v Speaker 2>up connected to Epstein via email via Mandy Castigan's article.

0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Quote email threads, which sometimes included Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos,

0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:54.800
<v Speaker 2>and Elon Musk, later turned into private conferences at Epstein

0:30:54.840 --> 0:30:57.600
<v Speaker 2>and Brockman's properties, as well as public events and debates.

0:30:57.880 --> 0:31:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Brockman Wants bragged to Epstein that the network of the

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:04.120
<v Speaker 2>forty guests at my two fourteen Billionaire's dinner was equal

0:31:04.160 --> 0:31:07.000
<v Speaker 2>to the combined wealth of sixty percent of all Americans.

0:31:08.480 --> 0:31:10.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, honestly, that seems lower than I thought.

0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, isn't the dangerous idea that that's bad?

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 4>I just like to think that they're like, all right, guys,

0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:20.200
<v Speaker 4>let's let's do an icebreak or so everybody gets to

0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:23.560
<v Speaker 4>know each other. What's your dangerous idea?

0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my dangerous idea is that all of you should

0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:32.280
<v Speaker 2>be fucking taken out by a drone strike like one

0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:34.680
<v Speaker 2>in that dinner would have saved the world some problems.

0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 3>My god, so juvenile. It's so juvenile.

0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:43.640
<v Speaker 4>And idea that's like, that's like a bad fucking like

0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:45.080
<v Speaker 4>Tinder message, like.

0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Off again, fuck off all the billionaires at these billionaire's

0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 2>dinners hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, emailing with Jeffrey Epstein,

0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:54.360
<v Speaker 2>can see that he's going to be there, can see

0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:56.640
<v Speaker 2>that he's in the email threads, are talking him to

0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:59.320
<v Speaker 2>him sometimes on the email threads, and This is years

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>after his arrest and his conviction. Right, for most of

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey's donations to EDGE start after his arrest, and he

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.760
<v Speaker 2>attends his first Billionaire's dinner in twenty eleven. Right, But

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 2>we know these dinners go back further, and we know

0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 2>that in earlier years, like two thousand and three, his

0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:18.400
<v Speaker 2>close associate Sarah Kellen, was one of the few women

0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:20.800
<v Speaker 2>present at this dinner. To give a brief summary of

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:24.120
<v Speaker 2>what exactly Sarah's role was in Epstein's operation, here's a

0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:26.760
<v Speaker 2>paragraph from an article about her divorce from NASCAR star

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Brian Vickers. Court documents accused her of helping to arrange

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.800
<v Speaker 2>illegal massage sessions with underage girls. In twenty twenty two,

0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:37.040
<v Speaker 2>a federal judge said she shared criminal responsibility while sentencing

0:32:37.080 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Gilan Maxwell. However, authorities never filed criminal charges against Kellen. Kellen,

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:48.480
<v Speaker 2>who worked with Jeffrey connecting people to illegal massage sessions,

0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:51.200
<v Speaker 2>is at the Billionaire's dinner in two thousand and three

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.280
<v Speaker 2>before Jeffrey, as far as we know, is even at

0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:59.960
<v Speaker 2>these huh huh, interesting, I mean interesting, Yeah.

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:00.720
<v Speaker 1>I.

0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:05.960
<v Speaker 3>Imagine some this is somewhat like the rhetorical path you've

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:09.400
<v Speaker 3>been leading us down. But it is like shocking how

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:13.040
<v Speaker 3>much pedophilia is like an integral part of this whole

0:33:13.720 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 3>power structure everything these guys intellectualism, like it's always that,

0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:22.640
<v Speaker 3>it's somehow always that.

0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Once you get this kind of rich, the most painful

0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:29.440
<v Speaker 2>and annoying thing in the world is anyone telling you

0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:33.400
<v Speaker 2>you can't do something. And I think that that has

0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:35.960
<v Speaker 2>something to do with it. Some of these guys, I'm

0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>sure would always have you know, gone after underaged, you know,

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:42.080
<v Speaker 2>kids and stuff. But I do think some of it

0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:44.480
<v Speaker 2>might just be like the sense of impunity they have

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 2>that like nothing should be illegal for me, nothing should

0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:49.480
<v Speaker 2>be beyond me. Right, I don't know, and I don't

0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:52.120
<v Speaker 2>know who else. Maybe no one made Maybe Sarah didn't

0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:55.120
<v Speaker 2>connect anyone with legal massages at the Billionaire's Dinner. Maybe

0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:58.560
<v Speaker 2>she was just a great conversationalist who happened to as

0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:01.920
<v Speaker 2>a judge, says be deep complicit and Jeffrey Epstein's illegal

0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:06.440
<v Speaker 2>sex trafficking who knows? So that twenty eleven dinner Epstein

0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 2>attended feature Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brinn, and Elon Musk, all

0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:13.200
<v Speaker 2>of whom deny doing anything but briefly meeting Epstein at

0:34:13.239 --> 0:34:15.839
<v Speaker 2>this event. This was not the only dinner he had

0:34:15.880 --> 0:34:18.800
<v Speaker 2>with some of these folks, though. In August of twenty fifteen,

0:34:18.880 --> 0:34:22.400
<v Speaker 2>billionaire Tom Pritzker, cousin of JB. Pritzker, asked Epstein if

0:34:22.440 --> 0:34:25.640
<v Speaker 2>he was available to hang out. Jeff replied, not sure yet.

0:34:25.800 --> 0:34:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I had dinner with Zuckerberg, Musk, Teal Hoffmann wild. And

0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:32.200
<v Speaker 2>then he sends a photo of this event, and it

0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:35.440
<v Speaker 2>looks Sylvie as shady as you'd guess. They're at like

0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:38.120
<v Speaker 2>a dark table. You can see Elon in one corner,

0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:40.680
<v Speaker 2>whoever took the photo is sitting right next to Mark

0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:46.600
<v Speaker 2>fucking Zuckerberg. Like it is just the shadiest looking dinner,

0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:48.080
<v Speaker 2>but it's also like.

0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:51.600
<v Speaker 3>A moron's idea of what power looks like. It's like

0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 3>rucking the Doctor Evil set up.

0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:57.200
<v Speaker 2>It's the Doctor Evils? Does it does look like the

0:34:57.280 --> 0:34:59.919
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Evils set up? And Mark Zuckerberg looks like he's

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:03.520
<v Speaker 2>rethinking being there, like maybe it's just sitting across from

0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:05.640
<v Speaker 2>Elon Musk is annoying as shit. I don't know.

0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:11.280
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, oh man, the photo that must have been Epstein

0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:12.399
<v Speaker 5>taking it from right.

0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I don't know, but he's right. If so, then

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:19.279
<v Speaker 2>he was right next to Mark Zuckerberg. I can't tell it.

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:23.280
<v Speaker 2>That may be Priscilla Shan right next to him. Yeah,

0:35:23.400 --> 0:35:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I can't tell, but I can't. I can't tell. I

0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 2>don't know everyone in the photo, but you can. I mean,

0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:32.160
<v Speaker 2>he says Bezos is there, and that's definitely Musk and

0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:37.840
<v Speaker 2>and Zuckerberg, right, speaking of people who went to dinners

0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:43.000
<v Speaker 2>with Elon Musk and Jeffrey Epstein, none of them support

0:35:43.040 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 2>this podcast. Maybe it's impossible to say.

0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is your least accurate ad throw I've heard.

0:35:50.280 --> 0:36:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Yep, yeah, and we're back. So the Edge Foundation is

0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:06.040
<v Speaker 2>interesting to me because it's of what it is a

0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:10.799
<v Speaker 2>precursor for. This is like the more exclusive version for

0:36:10.960 --> 0:36:14.839
<v Speaker 2>actual powerful people. But the basic idea that like we're

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:17.759
<v Speaker 2>going to ask hard questions and come up with the

0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:20.760
<v Speaker 2>future is going to come Like that's going to basically

0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:25.799
<v Speaker 2>be the operating principle for another group of annoying rich

0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.200
<v Speaker 2>guys who are going to come a few years later. Right.

0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:31.400
<v Speaker 2>In a write up for the trans News Network, Maddie

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:34.320
<v Speaker 2>cast again more accurately describes the Edge Foundation as quote

0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.800
<v Speaker 2>a loose predecessor for the far right intellectual Dark Web.

0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 2>And I think she's right on the money there, right,

0:36:41.280 --> 0:36:42.759
<v Speaker 2>or at least I think it's accurate to say the

0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:45.080
<v Speaker 2>intellectual dark web is taking some of these ideas, but

0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:47.560
<v Speaker 2>being like, look, number one billionaires don't have time to

0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.719
<v Speaker 2>write this bullshit. They're not thinking up stuff. They're they're

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:53.040
<v Speaker 2>living out on their yachts, they're surfing. We got to

0:36:53.080 --> 0:36:55.560
<v Speaker 2>find some guys who aren't quite as rich who will

0:36:56.000 --> 0:37:01.120
<v Speaker 2>start thinking dangerous ideas and writing about maybe we should

0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:04.920
<v Speaker 2>be racist, maybe it is okay to have sex with children, right,

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:07.320
<v Speaker 2>Like we need we need our we need our intellectual

0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:10.399
<v Speaker 2>dark web to get that information out to the PLBs. Right,

0:37:12.280 --> 0:37:14.160
<v Speaker 2>So I think there's some value in sort of looking

0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:17.400
<v Speaker 2>at it that way, right, To continue from her articles.

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:23.640
<v Speaker 3>A gang of people whose main like main skill is

0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:26.920
<v Speaker 3>somehow convincing at least some number of people that the

0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 3>basic pervasive ideas of like your average KKK member is

0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:37.239
<v Speaker 3>somehow interesting and like Foreboden and like worth exploring.

0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 2>It's playing on one of the worst things about the

0:37:40.160 --> 0:37:43.320
<v Speaker 2>American psyche, which is our like deeply ingrained sense of

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:46.759
<v Speaker 2>oppositional defiant disorder. Because if you just say, hey, you

0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:48.920
<v Speaker 2>know the things that everyone else says they're good, what

0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:51.799
<v Speaker 2>if they're bad? And then a bunch of people will

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:53.680
<v Speaker 2>give you money and let you write for The Atlantic.

0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Uh, the Atlantic, which is run by a friend of

0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein's anyway, whatever, so is the New York Times whatever?

0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:08.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah so, to continue from Mandy Castigan's article for the

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Trans News Network. During the research for this article, trans

0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:15.200
<v Speaker 2>News Network uncovered at least eight prominent anti transfigures affiliated

0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:18.000
<v Speaker 2>with Edge or with the IDW who received support from

0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Epstein or even visited his island, often through connections with

0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Brockman or physicist Lawrence Krauss. Now, it's noteworthy that so

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:29.080
<v Speaker 2>many super smart Edge people as well as the IDW folks,

0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:33.520
<v Speaker 2>picked hating trans people as their dangerous intellectual idea. One

0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:37.920
<v Speaker 2>of the most noteworthy members of this crew is Epstein's

0:38:37.920 --> 0:38:40.720
<v Speaker 2>good friend Lawrence Kraus, As was stated in that quote above,

0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Kraus is a famous physicist and right wing crank who

0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:47.520
<v Speaker 2>taught at Arizona State University, where only the best scientists work.

0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and six, he hosted a conference on

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Epstein's island with Stephen Hawking. So he's responsible for all

0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:56.319
<v Speaker 2>the pictures of hawking that we have to think about now,

0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:01.360
<v Speaker 2>which don't necessarily implicate hawking and hawking. May have just

0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:03.759
<v Speaker 2>heard this is a science conference, because all of these

0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:05.759
<v Speaker 2>scientists are showing up at this island from this guy

0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:08.200
<v Speaker 2>who donates to science. It's two thousand and six. Epstein

0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:11.640
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been arrested yet. That said, for a lot of

0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:14.040
<v Speaker 2>these guys, there's a follow up conference in twenty ten,

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:19.279
<v Speaker 2>after which point they knew who Epstein was. Kraus is

0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:21.600
<v Speaker 2>so close with Jeffrey that he becomes one of the

0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 2>first guys to face public consequences for his relationship with Epstein.

0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:29.000
<v Speaker 2>In twenty eleven, Rebecca Watson attacked him for continuing to

0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:33.680
<v Speaker 2>associate with Epstein and justifying it by claiming science. Kraus

0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.520
<v Speaker 2>defended his friend and said, I don't feel lowered by

0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:40.160
<v Speaker 2>my association with Jeffrey. I feel raised by my friendship

0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:44.719
<v Speaker 2>with Jeffrey. And also he never raped any kids. Yeah,

0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:46.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a good call, Kraus.

0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:50.880
<v Speaker 3>Just pr just a pr G. You know, I guess

0:39:50.880 --> 0:39:51.960
<v Speaker 3>what else are you gonna say?

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, yeah, yeah. And for that piece in the

0:39:57.040 --> 0:40:00.360
<v Speaker 2>trans News Network, Epstein clearly noticed Kraus's vigorous de and

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:03.400
<v Speaker 2>rewarded him for his loyalty. He pledged one hundred thousand

0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:07.320
<v Speaker 2>dollars to Kraus's project at ASU between twenty fourteen twenty eighteen,

0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:11.759
<v Speaker 2>and Epstein's billionaire benefactor and alleged child rapist, Leon Black,

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.560
<v Speaker 2>subsequently pledged a whopping two million in twenty fifteen. Kraus

0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:17.680
<v Speaker 2>claimed he raised a total of four million dollars for

0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:20.000
<v Speaker 2>the project in twenty eighteen, meaning that a large portion

0:40:20.040 --> 0:40:22.720
<v Speaker 2>of his funding came from billionaires accused of child rape.

0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:24.719
<v Speaker 2>And my only correction that would be that, like again,

0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:27.759
<v Speaker 2>Epstein was really a billionaire now, But this does goes

0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:29.400
<v Speaker 2>to show when I say that, like you can't just

0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:31.520
<v Speaker 2>look at what Epstein gives. You have to look at

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:34.160
<v Speaker 2>like what Leon Black is giving because Epstein told him to.

0:40:34.360 --> 0:40:37.360
<v Speaker 3>Right. Yeah, it creates a yeah, like a like a

0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:40.319
<v Speaker 3>culture and some cover and just like a crowd to

0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:41.200
<v Speaker 3>hide yourself in.

0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:45.279
<v Speaker 2>Sure now. Kraus more recently had to step down from

0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:48.160
<v Speaker 2>Arizona State during the Me Too movement after he was

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:52.640
<v Speaker 2>accused six separate times of sexual misbeaving work. I'm yeah,

0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:57.279
<v Speaker 2>he Lawrence Krauss. Everybody wow, he became and after he

0:40:57.320 --> 0:41:00.320
<v Speaker 2>gets in trouble. He becomes one of the first prompt

0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:03.680
<v Speaker 2>men who were brought low by me too to reach

0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:07.959
<v Speaker 2>out to Jeffrey Epstein for advice. We'll talk a little

0:41:07.960 --> 0:41:10.480
<v Speaker 2>bit more about that later, but jeff goes so far.

0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:13.000
<v Speaker 2>He's not just given Kraus advice. He's helping him like

0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:15.880
<v Speaker 2>craft his response. Like the open letter that he writes

0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:19.880
<v Speaker 2>about the allegations, which Kraus denied, but now we know

0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:22.400
<v Speaker 2>because we have this information, Epstein was giving him like

0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:26.160
<v Speaker 2>notes on it. Nattie cast again continues. While he has

0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:28.600
<v Speaker 2>long denied many of the allegations from his time at ASU,

0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Krause admitted to it, even tried to justify gratuitous sexual

0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:34.200
<v Speaker 2>comments about trans women he made around coworkers. In one

0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:37.400
<v Speaker 2>later removed section of his retirement letter. He also helpfully

0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:39.640
<v Speaker 2>included a grade school sketch of a light bulb that

0:41:39.680 --> 0:41:42.839
<v Speaker 2>he drew in front of colleagues. Since Kraus's retirement from

0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:46.000
<v Speaker 2>academia and hopefully sketch art, Epstein continued to advise and

0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:48.400
<v Speaker 2>fund him as he pivoted to building an anti trans

0:41:48.440 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 2>podcast on his YouTube channel and accompanying substack, where he's

0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:54.120
<v Speaker 2>interviewed a large number of turfs and other anti transfigures,

0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:58.279
<v Speaker 2>including other Epstein associates like Richard Dawkins and for a

0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:00.840
<v Speaker 2>note that light bulb sketch Jeff Drew. I know this

0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:02.959
<v Speaker 2>because of a fucking Dilbert book I read as a kid.

0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:04.879
<v Speaker 2>If you like, draw a light bulb in a certain

0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:06.600
<v Speaker 2>way and turn it upside down, it looks like a

0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:09.640
<v Speaker 2>woman who's bending over with her underpants on. That's what

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Kraus is doing. One of our greatest minds. Truly a

0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:18.160
<v Speaker 2>master of physics, just a genius. All these men just

0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:19.680
<v Speaker 2>the that's they.

0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:22.960
<v Speaker 3>They are good at one thing probably or okay, at

0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:24.920
<v Speaker 3>one thing. Yeah, is the problem?

0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:28.239
<v Speaker 2>Most of them were or not? Is the problem?

0:42:28.280 --> 0:42:29.600
<v Speaker 4>Just hate them all.

0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:32.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how good Kraus was, but yeah, so

0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:36.000
<v Speaker 2>we've got Epstein funding a white nationalist YouTuber in twenty fifteen,

0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and then in twenty nineteen, one of his last actions

0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:43.359
<v Speaker 2>is helping to fund Kraus's anti trans propaganda. That's interesting, right,

0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:46.640
<v Speaker 2>and it gets worse. Epstein is also closely tied to

0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:50.480
<v Speaker 2>an evolutionary biologist named Robert Trivers. Now I had not

0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:52.920
<v Speaker 2>heard of this guy, but doctor F. Nichols wrote a

0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:55.600
<v Speaker 2>great piece on this for her website Queer Science Lab.

0:42:55.880 --> 0:42:58.759
<v Speaker 2>She started by just searching the Epstein files for the

0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:02.600
<v Speaker 2>word transsexual. Right now today, that is widely although I

0:43:02.640 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 2>have known some trans people who still use that term

0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:07.360
<v Speaker 2>for themselves, but it is why. It is an outdated

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and offensive term as a general rule, that's like, you're

0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:12.640
<v Speaker 2>not you shouldn't be using that referring to if someone

0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.200
<v Speaker 2>wants to take that whatever, I'm not not for me

0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:18.400
<v Speaker 2>to speak about, right. But the reason why doctor Nichols

0:43:18.480 --> 0:43:20.880
<v Speaker 2>uses that term is because most of the men in

0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:23.680
<v Speaker 2>the Epstein files are older men. They're around Jeffrey's age,

0:43:24.000 --> 0:43:26.279
<v Speaker 2>and that term was even if you weren't trying to

0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:28.480
<v Speaker 2>be offensive, the term you would have used twenty or

0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:29.239
<v Speaker 2>thirty years ago.

0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:43:29.480 --> 0:43:31.440
<v Speaker 2>That's why she's searching for it, because these guys use

0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:33.759
<v Speaker 2>outdated terms for things. You know that. I just needed

0:43:33.800 --> 0:43:37.279
<v Speaker 2>to explain that. So she looks into Jeffrey and his

0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:39.879
<v Speaker 2>friends talking about trans issues, and she points out something

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:42.200
<v Speaker 2>that gets left out a lot, including in my earlier

0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:45.719
<v Speaker 2>coverage of Epstein, which is that and I should have

0:43:45.760 --> 0:43:47.879
<v Speaker 2>found this information, but I didn't because it was out

0:43:47.920 --> 0:43:49.400
<v Speaker 2>at this point in time. So I want to correct

0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:52.720
<v Speaker 2>that now. The first woman to publicly accuse Jeffrey Epstein

0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:55.840
<v Speaker 2>of abuse was a transgender Latina woman named Ava Cordero.

0:43:56.360 --> 0:43:59.360
<v Speaker 2>She sued Epstein in October of two thousand and seven,

0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:02.560
<v Speaker 2>claiming that he forced her into bizarre and unnatural sex

0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:05.279
<v Speaker 2>when she was sixteen years old. Per an article in

0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:09.759
<v Speaker 2>LGBTQ Nation Quote. In her lawsuit, Cordero alleged that in

0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:12.960
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety nine, Epstein lured her to his mansion undressed

0:44:12.960 --> 0:44:16.480
<v Speaker 2>and requested a massage. Cordero said she felt frightened but agreed,

0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:19.680
<v Speaker 2>at which point Epstein suddenly began violently touching her genitals,

0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:23.040
<v Speaker 2>pushing her head downward, and demanding oral sex. She alleged

0:44:23.040 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Epstein had lured her to his mansion in nineteen ninety

0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:29.319
<v Speaker 2>nine when she was sixteen. Right, so again, I just

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:30.480
<v Speaker 2>really need to emphasize that.

0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:30.919
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:34.640
<v Speaker 2>She agrees initially when he asks her to undress because

0:44:34.680 --> 0:44:38.000
<v Speaker 2>she's scared, and once he starts, he begins violently grabbing

0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:40.040
<v Speaker 2>her genitals and then grabs her head and forces her

0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:42.360
<v Speaker 2>to perform oral sex. It's really bad, like this is

0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:46.480
<v Speaker 2>a really child as bad as any of the tales

0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:50.160
<v Speaker 2>of the TSL here, but no one takes this seriously

0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:52.840
<v Speaker 2>because Cordero is a trans woman and her life and

0:44:52.920 --> 0:44:54.680
<v Speaker 2>night well transchild at the time of the abuse. But

0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:57.880
<v Speaker 2>she's nineteen when she anyway whatever, or older than that

0:44:57.960 --> 0:44:59.839
<v Speaker 2>when she makes it. Anyway, This is a trans woman

0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:04.200
<v Speaker 2>and that makes assholes consider her an unsympathetic victim. Another

0:45:04.239 --> 0:45:07.000
<v Speaker 2>thing that is used against her is that she's HIV positive. Right,

0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:09.759
<v Speaker 2>she had admitted that she'd been admitted to a psychiatric

0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:12.480
<v Speaker 2>hospital several times. She's has mental health issues in the past,

0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:14.839
<v Speaker 2>and she's admitted to illegal drug use in the past,

0:45:14.880 --> 0:45:17.279
<v Speaker 2>and all of this makes her a bad victim in

0:45:17.320 --> 0:45:21.319
<v Speaker 2>the eyes of shitty people. I want to emphasize she

0:45:21.520 --> 0:45:24.480
<v Speaker 2>is being judged here. Part of her credibility. Why she's

0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:27.279
<v Speaker 2>judged is not credible is that she's admitted to having

0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:31.400
<v Speaker 2>used drugs in the past. Epstein is perfectly happy to

0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:34.120
<v Speaker 2>use drugs. In fact, we have evidence of this. There's

0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:37.400
<v Speaker 2>a twenty thirteen email exchange between him and his fixer,

0:45:37.480 --> 0:45:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Leslie Groff where Groff is arranging for a friend of so.

0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:44.919
<v Speaker 2>Epstein has an apartment complex that he owns, right, and

0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:47.480
<v Speaker 2>he lets people stay there. Sometimes they're male friends of his.

0:45:47.600 --> 0:45:49.520
<v Speaker 2>They can crash there. Sometimes he lets people live there,

0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:52.319
<v Speaker 2>usually very young women live there for periods of time.

0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Right in twenty thirteen, one of these apartments, a woman

0:45:56.280 --> 0:45:59.560
<v Speaker 2>lives there and she asks Leslie Groff, Hey, my friend,

0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.760
<v Speaker 2>actor Will Forte is coming into town. Can he crash

0:46:02.800 --> 0:46:05.120
<v Speaker 2>with me for a few nights in this apartment Jeffrey

0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Epstein owns Now, I don't know the relationship between Jeffrey

0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 2>and this woman. I don't know the age at which

0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:13.360
<v Speaker 2>she starts talking to Jeffrey. I think she's an adult

0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:15.879
<v Speaker 2>at this point from everything that I know. So there's

0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:18.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot that I don't understand here. But Epstein has

0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:21.360
<v Speaker 2>this apartment that he sends women to, and that he

0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:23.960
<v Speaker 2>sends men to, and that there's sub evidence he sends

0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:26.959
<v Speaker 2>men to to have sex with young women, maybe women

0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:29.600
<v Speaker 2>that he's giving a free apartment to. It's a little

0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:32.640
<v Speaker 2>bit unclear. That's not what this is, right, Will Forte

0:46:32.680 --> 0:46:35.120
<v Speaker 2>is not a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. When Epstein is

0:46:35.160 --> 0:46:37.080
<v Speaker 2>asked if he can stay at the apartment, Epstein does

0:46:37.120 --> 0:46:41.000
<v Speaker 2>not appear to know the guy right now. Would will

0:46:41.040 --> 0:46:42.399
<v Speaker 2>have been cool if he knew that he was staying

0:46:42.440 --> 0:46:45.360
<v Speaker 2>in an apartment Jeffrey Epstein owned. I don't know if he

0:46:45.400 --> 0:46:46.960
<v Speaker 2>would have been I don't know if he knew. Right

0:46:47.400 --> 0:46:50.239
<v Speaker 2>does this woman tell her friend Will Forte. By the way,

0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:53.040
<v Speaker 2>this apartment's owned by Jeffrey Epstein. You know this is

0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:55.279
<v Speaker 2>one of those because I'm bringing Will into it as

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:56.840
<v Speaker 2>a result of something else. I want to make it

0:46:56.880 --> 0:46:59.960
<v Speaker 2>clear there's not evidence he did anything wrong, although maybe

0:47:00.040 --> 0:47:02.480
<v Speaker 2>it should be looked into a little bit right now

0:47:03.840 --> 0:47:05.840
<v Speaker 2>just to make sure, but there's not there's not evidence.

0:47:05.880 --> 0:47:08.720
<v Speaker 2>I want to make that really clear. Anyway. The reason

0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:10.920
<v Speaker 2>why this is relevant is because this woman asks, hey,

0:47:11.000 --> 0:47:13.839
<v Speaker 2>can Will Forte crash with me? And Leslie asks jeff hey,

0:47:13.880 --> 0:47:16.759
<v Speaker 2>is this okay? And Epstein responds yes, but make sure

0:47:16.800 --> 0:47:19.520
<v Speaker 2>there are no drugs or drink in the apartment, which

0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:22.600
<v Speaker 2>means that there's drugs there a lot of the time, right, right, right.

0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:25.640
<v Speaker 2>This isn't the only evidence that Jeffrey Epstein used drugs

0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:29.000
<v Speaker 2>or applied girls with drugs, right. It just makes it

0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:29.600
<v Speaker 2>very clear.

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.600
<v Speaker 3>I guess that's a point in in Will Forte's favor,

0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:35.960
<v Speaker 3>as he's hiding.

0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:37.439
<v Speaker 2>That he has right that he had that Epstein wanted

0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:39.440
<v Speaker 2>to hide stuff from him, right, So again, there's not

0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:44.160
<v Speaker 2>evidence Will did anything wrong. But this is relevant because

0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:47.880
<v Speaker 2>when this case comes out and when she makes claims

0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:53.160
<v Speaker 2>against him, there are like websites put up right, like

0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:57.000
<v Speaker 2>social media sites claiming to be her social media sites

0:47:57.640 --> 0:48:02.400
<v Speaker 2>where she talks about illegal drug use, right the smear campaign.

0:48:02.480 --> 0:48:08.080
<v Speaker 2>Now she denies these are her social media accounts. And

0:48:08.120 --> 0:48:11.439
<v Speaker 2>we know Epstein hired people to fix his Wikipedia for him.

0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:15.640
<v Speaker 2>We know that he hired people to alter website, and

0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:17.480
<v Speaker 2>we know that he hired people to alter like Google

0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:19.880
<v Speaker 2>results so that it wouldn't be obvious that he was

0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:22.800
<v Speaker 2>a sex criminal. He had somebody removing the fact that

0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:25.000
<v Speaker 2>he was a convicted sex offender from his Wikipedia, he

0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:27.680
<v Speaker 2>had people altering Google results. Wouldn't have been weird for

0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:31.000
<v Speaker 2>him to have someone make a fake social media page

0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:33.520
<v Speaker 2>for this woman who has charged him, who is alleged

0:48:33.520 --> 0:48:36.240
<v Speaker 2>that he abused her, right, And I just really wanted

0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:42.200
<v Speaker 2>to emphasize how vile this is really Comprehensively, her case

0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:45.640
<v Speaker 2>is dismissed because it fell outside of the statute of limitations,

0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:50.640
<v Speaker 2>she waited more than five years, and the fact that

0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:54.839
<v Speaker 2>this all happens and that it like it's not not

0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:57.080
<v Speaker 2>only is this dismissed, which maybe they didn't have a

0:48:57.160 --> 0:48:59.239
<v Speaker 2>choice legally. I'm not enough of a law expert to

0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:01.279
<v Speaker 2>say if this is a good ruling or not. You know,

0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:05.840
<v Speaker 2>but statutes of limitation exist, U I mean good in

0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:08.040
<v Speaker 2>the is it illegally consistent ruling that they would have

0:49:08.040 --> 0:49:12.400
<v Speaker 2>applied to anybody. But what you do know here is

0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:15.719
<v Speaker 2>that the media treats this like a joke. These are

0:49:15.760 --> 0:49:19.560
<v Speaker 2>serious allegations that Jeffrey Epstein raped a child that come

0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.120
<v Speaker 2>out the year before he gets charged with molesting a

0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:26.440
<v Speaker 2>child and convicted, and it is not It is treated

0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:29.920
<v Speaker 2>like a joke forever up to the present day and

0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:33.240
<v Speaker 2>per an article in LGBTQ Nation, The New York Post's

0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:35.719
<v Speaker 2>October twenty third, two thousand and seven coverage included the

0:49:35.760 --> 0:49:39.120
<v Speaker 2>headline gender bend shocker, kinky sex suit gal is a

0:49:39.200 --> 0:49:43.640
<v Speaker 2>man Like, Yeah, this is a rape allegation by a

0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:46.359
<v Speaker 2>child or somebody was a child at the time. Right,

0:49:47.680 --> 0:49:53.960
<v Speaker 2>It's just it's it's file. It's just like so comprehensively evil. Anyway.

0:49:54.160 --> 0:49:57.280
<v Speaker 2>This is Epstein's first recorded interaction with a trans person,

0:49:57.560 --> 0:49:59.880
<v Speaker 2>but from this point forward, so there's obviously a period

0:49:59.880 --> 0:50:03.720
<v Speaker 2>at which he fetishizes trans people right, and that's deeply

0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:08.239
<v Speaker 2>tied in with his anti transactivism because that becomes an

0:50:08.239 --> 0:50:10.160
<v Speaker 2>increasing thing to him in the odds and one person

0:50:10.200 --> 0:50:13.600
<v Speaker 2>he expresses a lot of this too, is evolutionary biologist

0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Robert Trivers. Now. Trivers was famous for back in the

0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:20.920
<v Speaker 2>seventies creating what's called the theory of investment parenting. And

0:50:20.960 --> 0:50:23.759
<v Speaker 2>this theory suggests that parents invest in their kids to

0:50:23.840 --> 0:50:28.239
<v Speaker 2>ensure their own multi generational success. Thus, it's natural for

0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:31.640
<v Speaker 2>women to invest more in parenting because they invest in

0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:34.359
<v Speaker 2>or to create the child, and it's natural for men

0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:37.279
<v Speaker 2>to invest less in parenting because it's easy to come right.

0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:40.080
<v Speaker 2>That's what Nichols is saying, and that this is fine

0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and right and good. This theory has been discredited, but

0:50:44.440 --> 0:50:47.000
<v Speaker 2>as doctor Nichols noted in her article, it is still

0:50:47.040 --> 0:50:50.960
<v Speaker 2>widely cited. Travers started corresponding with Epstein in two thousand

0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:54.760
<v Speaker 2>and nine, again after Epstein's guilty plea per Nichols quote.

0:50:55.040 --> 0:50:57.800
<v Speaker 2>Epstein invited Trivers to his house in Florida to discuss

0:50:57.840 --> 0:51:01.360
<v Speaker 2>his work and paid Trivers's travel into comonations. Trivers, like

0:51:01.400 --> 0:51:05.600
<v Speaker 2>all researchers, needed money. Research is expensive salaries, materials, publishing fees,

0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:09.279
<v Speaker 2>and more. Over the years, Trivers frequented to Epstein's Florida home.

0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Triver's is unsure how we're when Epstein began funding his work,

0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:15.440
<v Speaker 2>but by twenty fifteen, Epstein bragged to Nom Chomsky that

0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:20.080
<v Speaker 2>he was Trivers's major funder. Concurrently, Triver's publicly justified Epstein's

0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:24.560
<v Speaker 2>pedophilia in no uncertain terms, and she chooses not to

0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:29.000
<v Speaker 2>reproduce that justification here. I think I will reproduce them

0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:31.120
<v Speaker 2>because it's important for knowing what a piece of shit

0:51:31.160 --> 0:51:35.319
<v Speaker 2>Trivers is. And in twenty fifteen Reuter's article, after a

0:51:35.360 --> 0:51:38.880
<v Speaker 2>lot more stuff about Epstein started coming out, several scientists

0:51:38.920 --> 0:51:42.160
<v Speaker 2>who had received donations from the Epstein Foundation were asked

0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:44.640
<v Speaker 2>why they kept taking his money and associating with him

0:51:44.640 --> 0:51:47.960
<v Speaker 2>after his conviction. Kraus said, I'd be a coward if

0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I abandoned Jeffrey over allegations I know nothing about. And

0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:54.440
<v Speaker 2>that's gross. But what Trivers says in this article is

0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:57.160
<v Speaker 2>so much worse. I can't believe he said this to Reuter's.

0:51:57.880 --> 0:52:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Did he get an easy deal? Did he buy himself

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:02.640
<v Speaker 2>a light sentence? Well? Yes, probably compared to what you

0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:04.440
<v Speaker 2>or I would get but he did get locked up,

0:52:04.920 --> 0:52:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Trivor said. Triver says he also said he believes girls

0:52:07.920 --> 0:52:10.359
<v Speaker 2>mature earlier than in the past. By the time they're

0:52:10.400 --> 0:52:13.080
<v Speaker 2>fourteen or fifteen, they're like grown women were sixty years ago.

0:52:13.160 --> 0:52:14.920
<v Speaker 2>So I don't see these acts. Is so heinous?

0:52:15.840 --> 0:52:18.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, is this guy just like walking around still?

0:52:19.960 --> 0:52:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Probably?

0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:22.600
<v Speaker 2>I hope he's dead, but I think he probably is.

0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:26.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's also just like like that like branch of

0:52:26.560 --> 0:52:30.160
<v Speaker 3>like bigot science is like you just like find the

0:52:30.200 --> 0:52:35.840
<v Speaker 3>trappings of evolutionary like psychology to like justify what you

0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:38.560
<v Speaker 3>already want to. You know, you can sort of backfill

0:52:38.680 --> 0:52:42.160
<v Speaker 3>anything if you want, ye, and you will get money.

0:52:42.719 --> 0:52:45.520
<v Speaker 3>It's rewarded to be a bigot. It's cool, like your

0:52:45.680 --> 0:52:48.560
<v Speaker 3>fucking racist pedophile whatever.

0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:53.440
<v Speaker 2>So that next year, in twenty sixteen, Trivers thanked Epstein

0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:56.080
<v Speaker 2>for sending him extra money and making him an advisor

0:52:56.120 --> 0:53:00.920
<v Speaker 2>on The Guy. Oh Yeah good. He talked about his

0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:03.880
<v Speaker 2>medical research and added that he was moving forward on

0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:07.600
<v Speaker 2>theoretical work Epstein had asked him to pursue. We don't

0:53:07.600 --> 0:53:10.759
<v Speaker 2>know what that was specifically, but Epstein's response to this was,

0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:13.960
<v Speaker 2>I want to see you your piece on transgender in

0:53:14.040 --> 0:53:19.320
<v Speaker 2>the bio world. Right, So that suggests he wanted Travers

0:53:19.360 --> 0:53:23.040
<v Speaker 2>to write a piece about transgender people and actual and

0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:26.600
<v Speaker 2>like biology, Like this is like a bioessentialist thing, right,

0:53:26.880 --> 0:53:29.279
<v Speaker 2>That's what he wants doctor Travers to write, and that's

0:53:29.360 --> 0:53:33.319
<v Speaker 2>kind of his his priority, right, is getting this guy

0:53:33.320 --> 0:53:35.319
<v Speaker 2>to write about trans people rather than any of the

0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:39.560
<v Speaker 2>other research that he's doing. Doctor Nichols continues. Two months later,

0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Trivors contacted Epstein again and communicated that he is getting

0:53:42.760 --> 0:53:46.360
<v Speaker 2>to the end of transsexuality. Trivers goes on to pontificate

0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:49.080
<v Speaker 2>about the benefits of fucking trans women, using the humanizing

0:53:49.160 --> 0:53:53.200
<v Speaker 2>language to refer to transfilms like organism and the new morphs.

0:53:53.680 --> 0:53:56.840
<v Speaker 2>To that end, Trivers asks Epstein for more money to

0:53:56.880 --> 0:54:01.520
<v Speaker 2>finish his research on the proposed topics. So, but first off, Trivers,

0:54:01.520 --> 0:54:03.880
<v Speaker 2>if you read his actual emails, he is a fetishist.

0:54:03.880 --> 0:54:07.640
<v Speaker 2>He fetishizes trans people, and he also does not consider

0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:12.239
<v Speaker 2>them number one to be the gender that they are. Right,

0:54:13.040 --> 0:54:16.279
<v Speaker 2>he's a biological essentialist. But he also and I think

0:54:16.320 --> 0:54:18.880
<v Speaker 2>this is the same with Epstein. They're happy to fetishize

0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:21.960
<v Speaker 2>these people when these people have an identity and are

0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.040
<v Speaker 2>trying to get treated as human beings. That makes him

0:54:25.040 --> 0:54:28.359
<v Speaker 2>incredibly angry because they only exist for his sexual gratification.

0:54:28.640 --> 0:54:30.560
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a big thing for both Epstein and

0:54:30.560 --> 0:54:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Trivers here, and why they're both on the anti trans

0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:38.120
<v Speaker 2>stuff right is they're personally offended at the struggle for

0:54:38.280 --> 0:54:41.239
<v Speaker 2>like dignity and civil rights by trans people as a

0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:44.200
<v Speaker 2>community because to them, they're not a community, they're a fetish.

0:54:44.719 --> 0:54:47.040
<v Speaker 2>That's I think what's going on here. That's my interpretation

0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:52.720
<v Speaker 2>based on my reading. In October of that year, twenty sixteen,

0:54:52.800 --> 0:54:55.759
<v Speaker 2>Trivers held a talk in London titled and Evening on

0:54:55.840 --> 0:55:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Evolutionary Biology, an Overview covering feminism, transgender sexuality, and on

0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:04.680
<v Speaker 2>our Killings. He invited Epstein to the talk, and in

0:55:04.719 --> 0:55:06.840
<v Speaker 2>an email where he laid out the details of the event,

0:55:06.880 --> 0:55:11.680
<v Speaker 2>wrote wrote the title, so as far back as twenty sixteen,

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:16.319
<v Speaker 2>Epstein is trying and giving his money to support the

0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:20.800
<v Speaker 2>creation of an internet wave of coverage critical to transidentity.

0:55:20.800 --> 0:55:23.839
<v Speaker 2>Because Epstein's response is that basically, I think this will

0:55:23.840 --> 0:55:26.040
<v Speaker 2>do a good job of getting in the news, like

0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:29.000
<v Speaker 2>great work on the conference. Hopefully people write about it,

0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:32.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, like he's really trying to get intellectuals to

0:55:32.960 --> 0:55:36.000
<v Speaker 2>put out critical stuff about trans people that he can

0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:37.920
<v Speaker 2>then get to go viral, and he talks about this

0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:42.200
<v Speaker 2>directly in his emails with Trivers. In twenty eighteen, Epstein

0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:46.839
<v Speaker 2>and Trivers again communicate about trans theories. Trivers uses more

0:55:47.120 --> 0:55:52.359
<v Speaker 2>really bad language. He calls trans people novel phenotypes, and

0:55:52.400 --> 0:55:55.920
<v Speaker 2>then he describes an experiment that he wants to do

0:55:56.000 --> 0:55:59.239
<v Speaker 2>to kind of test some of his theories, which and

0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:03.480
<v Speaker 2>this is how doctor Nichols describes it. He reiterates his

0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:06.360
<v Speaker 2>attraction to trans women and explicitly erasist trans men, all

0:56:06.440 --> 0:56:09.920
<v Speaker 2>while using his porn algorithms as evidence. Trivers ends the

0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:12.320
<v Speaker 2>email by claiming that trans three year old's are receiving

0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:15.840
<v Speaker 2>hormone treatments, a false anti trans scare monger. So again,

0:56:16.080 --> 0:56:20.320
<v Speaker 2>this mix of fetishization and scare mongering is really interesting.

0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:25.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to include too much of the texts

0:56:25.120 --> 0:56:27.399
<v Speaker 2>of these emails. They're gross enough that I don't really

0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:30.439
<v Speaker 2>want to read them in detail. But his Nichols notes,

0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Epstein funds his anti trans work over his other research,

0:56:35.320 --> 0:56:38.520
<v Speaker 2>which is often also racist. For example, Trivors wanted to

0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:41.640
<v Speaker 2>find an evolutionary reason for why basically black people do

0:56:41.760 --> 0:56:44.160
<v Speaker 2>on our killings and Middle Eastern like Arab people do

0:56:44.200 --> 0:56:46.960
<v Speaker 2>want our killings, when the reality is that like on,

0:56:47.040 --> 0:56:49.840
<v Speaker 2>our killings are everywhere. If a man gets angry that

0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:53.440
<v Speaker 2>his wife slept with someone else or doesn't respect him

0:56:53.520 --> 0:56:55.200
<v Speaker 2>enough and murders her, which happens all of the time

0:56:55.239 --> 0:56:58.120
<v Speaker 2>in the US, that right, there's an honor killer, my friend. Yeah,

0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:00.560
<v Speaker 2>he's angry because a woman made him in there any

0:57:00.680 --> 0:57:06.680
<v Speaker 2>murderer anyway. What's interesting, though, is that above all this stuff,

0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:10.280
<v Speaker 2>above even the racial stuff, Epstein wants Trigvor's writing anti

0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:14.280
<v Speaker 2>trans propaganda. Here's a March twenty nineteen email where Epstein

0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:17.040
<v Speaker 2>lays out directly that he considers the anti trans stuff

0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Trivers's main priority. I can call you today if you

0:57:20.080 --> 0:57:22.200
<v Speaker 2>like My recollection is that we sat together. I thought

0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:24.880
<v Speaker 2>that you might want to focus on transgender biology. People

0:57:24.920 --> 0:57:27.240
<v Speaker 2>would be interested, and I would fund. I am a

0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:29.320
<v Speaker 2>true believer in your talents.

0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:32.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah right, I mean you know to the extent that

0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:37.320
<v Speaker 3>Epstein had a talent. It was like this, like even

0:57:37.360 --> 0:57:40.560
<v Speaker 3>if it's not like people will be interested, it's that like, yeah,

0:57:40.600 --> 0:57:44.520
<v Speaker 3>the fucking like powerbrokers and information people down to like

0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:46.920
<v Speaker 3>the New York Times and like you know, quote unquote

0:57:46.920 --> 0:57:49.919
<v Speaker 3>liberals or whatever will also buy the shit hook line

0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:52.720
<v Speaker 3>and sinker right well, or at least by the debate,

0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:53.800
<v Speaker 3>perpetuate the debate.

0:57:54.560 --> 0:57:56.320
<v Speaker 2>That's right, And it's the debate he wants to push

0:57:56.400 --> 0:57:58.840
<v Speaker 2>out there first, right, because it starts with the debate.

0:57:58.960 --> 0:58:00.800
<v Speaker 2>It starts with Okay, let's have him have this talk

0:58:00.840 --> 0:58:02.600
<v Speaker 2>and then see if we can get the guardian whoever

0:58:02.640 --> 0:58:05.160
<v Speaker 2>to report on the fact that this biologist is talking

0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:07.680
<v Speaker 2>about you know, this is what he said about trans people.

0:58:07.680 --> 0:58:09.960
<v Speaker 2>People are starting to question, you know, some of the

0:58:10.040 --> 0:58:13.240
<v Speaker 2>things that the community is putting out right. That's he's

0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:15.480
<v Speaker 2>very specific about, Like, I want this to go viral,

0:58:15.560 --> 0:58:19.280
<v Speaker 2>I want this to get news coverage, right, he expresses.

0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:21.560
<v Speaker 2>And when he says in that last email that people

0:58:21.600 --> 0:58:24.760
<v Speaker 2>will be interested about your anti trans research, he's expressing

0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:28.240
<v Speaker 2>confidence that he can brute force the public to care

0:58:28.280 --> 0:58:31.240
<v Speaker 2>about Trivers's research. Right. That's what he's talking about, is

0:58:31.320 --> 0:58:35.080
<v Speaker 2>forcing anti trans talking points into the public sphere. I

0:58:35.120 --> 0:58:38.080
<v Speaker 2>could go on about the other people that may have

0:58:38.160 --> 0:58:40.640
<v Speaker 2>had played a role in this. Epstein is very close

0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:43.600
<v Speaker 2>to the Sulzberger family who own The New York Times,

0:58:43.800 --> 0:58:47.160
<v Speaker 2>who publish a lot of anti trans bullshit. Epstein knew

0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:50.040
<v Speaker 2>them as far back as the seventies. In one email chain,

0:58:50.080 --> 0:58:52.160
<v Speaker 2>he jokes with Michael Wolfe about the fact that former

0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:55.440
<v Speaker 2>publisher Arthur Sulzberger had a sex scandal that could have

0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:59.200
<v Speaker 2>ruined him before he retired. Sulzberger's son now runs The

0:58:59.200 --> 0:59:03.120
<v Speaker 2>New York Times. And you know, obviously I'm not saying

0:59:03.200 --> 0:59:05.720
<v Speaker 2>that Epstein convinced the New York Times to run a

0:59:05.720 --> 0:59:08.760
<v Speaker 2>bunch of anti trans propaganda, but it's interesting that Epstein

0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:11.040
<v Speaker 2>is really pushing that and his friends with the people

0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:12.520
<v Speaker 2>behind the Times and The Atlantic.

0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:16.000
<v Speaker 3>But that is also the thing. It's like he doesn't

0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:19.440
<v Speaker 3>have to that is sort of like the the both

0:59:19.440 --> 0:59:21.800
<v Speaker 3>the useful idiocy of places like the New York Times

0:59:21.800 --> 0:59:25.400
<v Speaker 3>of the Atlantic and like just that I guess class

0:59:25.480 --> 0:59:28.880
<v Speaker 3>of people, which is like he doesn't have to dictate

0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:31.440
<v Speaker 3>how you should do this. He knows that they are

0:59:31.480 --> 0:59:34.640
<v Speaker 3>primed to support these ideas or again, support the debate.

0:59:35.560 --> 0:59:38.600
<v Speaker 2>In this class of people, which includes basically everyone who's

0:59:38.600 --> 0:59:42.480
<v Speaker 2>ever written a pop science book that's been successful, and

0:59:42.800 --> 0:59:47.240
<v Speaker 2>includes a number of actual scientists, most of the billionaires,

0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and a whole lot of like hereditary newspaper people, right

0:59:52.800 --> 0:59:54.720
<v Speaker 2>people who get jobs at the Times of the Atlantic

0:59:54.800 --> 0:59:56.320
<v Speaker 2>or The New Yorker because of who their dad or

0:59:56.320 --> 0:59:59.000
<v Speaker 2>mom was. Right, a lot of these all these people

0:59:59.280 --> 1:00:03.400
<v Speaker 2>are desperate money from rich assholes like Jeffrey Epstein and

1:00:03.480 --> 1:00:08.000
<v Speaker 2>are willing, like especially the writers and the academics, to

1:00:08.120 --> 1:00:10.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of say anything if there's money in it. They

1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:14.840
<v Speaker 2>they all of these fucking guys like the the fucking

1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Berry Weis's crew or whatever talk about how they're like

1:00:18.200 --> 1:00:20.480
<v Speaker 2>truth tellers, and this is the same as like the

1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:23.160
<v Speaker 2>honestly the New York Times editorial board talk about how

1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:25.240
<v Speaker 2>they care about the truth and good and get information

1:00:25.280 --> 1:00:27.760
<v Speaker 2>to people. They give a shit about money and having

1:00:27.840 --> 1:00:31.160
<v Speaker 2>rich friends and access right and they're so desperate for

1:00:31.200 --> 1:00:33.800
<v Speaker 2>it that the instant someone like Jeffrey Epstein starts saying,

1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:36.479
<v Speaker 2>you know what I found about trans people, they'll start

1:00:36.520 --> 1:00:39.080
<v Speaker 2>green lighting articles because that's what the public wants to hear.

1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:43.400
<v Speaker 3>It's so it's shocking that the truth tellers just all

1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:47.200
<v Speaker 3>in their like vast search for truth just happen to

1:00:47.240 --> 1:00:51.160
<v Speaker 3>coalesce around the opinions of the right wing power structure.

1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:55.720
<v Speaker 2>That it's interesting also that like the most dangerous thing

1:00:55.720 --> 1:00:58.360
<v Speaker 2>to suggest isn't maybe all these assholes with all of

1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:00.720
<v Speaker 2>the money shouldn't have it. It's maybe these people with

1:01:00.800 --> 1:01:02.880
<v Speaker 2>no money at all are bad and dangerous.

1:01:02.960 --> 1:01:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:01:04.520 --> 1:01:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Maybe the poorest and most depressed group of people that

1:01:07.160 --> 1:01:11.720
<v Speaker 2>I can think of pretty much here are yeah, secretly.

1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:16.720
<v Speaker 3>In charge intellectual kings and Queen is good stuff.

1:01:17.120 --> 1:01:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Ultimately the result of Epstein's investment in Trivers didn't

1:01:20.760 --> 1:01:23.840
<v Speaker 2>reach fruition until two months before his death, and twenty

1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:27.120
<v Speaker 2>twenty Trivers published his Universal Theory of gender identity, which

1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:30.560
<v Speaker 2>argued that the ratio of one's digit lengths like fingers,

1:01:30.880 --> 1:01:33.680
<v Speaker 2>revealed how much testosterone they received as a fetus, and

1:01:33.680 --> 1:01:38.640
<v Speaker 2>thus predicted gender identity and then thus proved gender absolutism basically,

1:01:39.680 --> 1:01:42.080
<v Speaker 2>and he basically said that, like, by the way someone's

1:01:42.080 --> 1:01:44.480
<v Speaker 2>fingers look, I can tell you if they're transgender.

1:01:44.960 --> 1:01:45.600
<v Speaker 3>This is wrong.

1:01:45.760 --> 1:01:48.920
<v Speaker 2>His work has been disproven, but it cited regularly, including

1:01:48.960 --> 1:01:51.040
<v Speaker 2>in a twenty twenty two paper from an anti trans

1:01:51.040 --> 1:01:54.480
<v Speaker 2>group called Sex Matters for doctor Nichols. The group cites

1:01:54.520 --> 1:01:58.320
<v Speaker 2>digit ratios and denying the autonomy of trans adolescents. And

1:01:58.360 --> 1:02:01.360
<v Speaker 2>this next bit that she writes is very important to

1:02:01.440 --> 1:02:05.680
<v Speaker 2>recap Epstein funds Triver's research and suggests specific topics of study.

1:02:05.960 --> 1:02:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Triver's becomes obsessed with trans women as sexual objects and

1:02:08.840 --> 1:02:12.760
<v Speaker 2>see the universal biological explanation of gender identity. He asks

1:02:12.760 --> 1:02:16.200
<v Speaker 2>for more money and publishes his findings. Ultimately, Triver's theory

1:02:16.240 --> 1:02:19.320
<v Speaker 2>is easily falsifiable. Despite this, hate groups pick up on

1:02:19.360 --> 1:02:21.680
<v Speaker 2>the pseudoscience and use it as a justification for their

1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:26.520
<v Speaker 2>regressive policies. That is, in a nutshell, the Jeffrey Epstein story.

1:02:27.040 --> 1:02:32.040
<v Speaker 3>It is telling that like the best, most funded, absolutely

1:02:32.080 --> 1:02:35.160
<v Speaker 3>cutting edge of right wing thought is basically the same

1:02:35.280 --> 1:02:37.360
<v Speaker 3>as on the playground when they said if your hand

1:02:37.400 --> 1:02:40.960
<v Speaker 3>is bigger than your face, your ex you getta yeah

1:02:41.000 --> 1:02:46.120
<v Speaker 3>whatever follows like that is literally the best these people

1:02:46.160 --> 1:02:48.360
<v Speaker 3>can do. And there it is.

1:02:49.320 --> 1:02:53.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I uh, let's you know, Andrew, here's some ads.

1:02:53.440 --> 1:02:55.320
<v Speaker 5>I don't have a better pivot right now, there's no

1:02:55.360 --> 1:03:03.600
<v Speaker 5>pivot and we're back.

1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:06.680
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot that I feel bad about not including

1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:08.360
<v Speaker 2>in these episodes that I want to. We're not talking

1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:12.080
<v Speaker 2>about Howard Littnik, right, like the fucking cot Trump's Commerce secretary,

1:03:12.320 --> 1:03:14.760
<v Speaker 2>who is also the custodian of like the tether reserves

1:03:15.840 --> 1:03:20.120
<v Speaker 2>and thus very tied to fucking and tied to Jeffrey Epstein. Right,

1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:21.920
<v Speaker 2>we're not talking about a lot of stuff that is

1:03:22.000 --> 1:03:24.960
<v Speaker 2>really important because there's just too much to talk about

1:03:24.960 --> 1:03:27.160
<v Speaker 2>that we already have on these episodes. But I would

1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:30.240
<v Speaker 2>feel bad if I didn't end by coming back to

1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:34.320
<v Speaker 2>the bromance between Jeffrey Epstein and Steve Bannon right now.

1:03:34.360 --> 1:03:36.640
<v Speaker 2>As I said earlier, both are in each other's orbit

1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:39.600
<v Speaker 2>for years before they got connected officially in twenty seventeen

1:03:39.640 --> 1:03:41.880
<v Speaker 2>by Michael wool Through. At least that was, you know,

1:03:42.120 --> 1:03:46.080
<v Speaker 2>the best estimate that I found previously, but there is

1:03:46.120 --> 1:03:48.720
<v Speaker 2>evidence that it goes back earlier. And on Sunday, December

1:03:48.800 --> 1:03:52.520
<v Speaker 2>eighteenth of twenty sixteen, Epstein emails Brock Pierce asking if

1:03:52.520 --> 1:03:55.440
<v Speaker 2>he'd had a chance to meet with Bannon. Right, Epstein's asking, Hey,

1:03:55.440 --> 1:03:57.840
<v Speaker 2>did you meet with Bannon yet? And Brock says yes,

1:03:58.200 --> 1:04:01.200
<v Speaker 2>and Epstein says, Bannon seems like the pretty smart puppet master.

1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:04.120
<v Speaker 2>Brock vouches for Bannon and says like, yeah, I've relied

1:04:04.120 --> 1:04:06.160
<v Speaker 2>on him for years. And it's after this point that

1:04:06.200 --> 1:04:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Steve and Jeffrey talking awful lot, So it may have

1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:12.680
<v Speaker 2>been that, you know, in twenty seventeen, they start talking

1:04:12.840 --> 1:04:16.400
<v Speaker 2>after you know, this conversation December of twenty sixteen, but

1:04:16.520 --> 1:04:19.680
<v Speaker 2>also the fact that Epstein's asking Brock if he'd had

1:04:19.720 --> 1:04:22.120
<v Speaker 2>a chance to meet with Bannon suggests that he's aware

1:04:22.120 --> 1:04:25.080
<v Speaker 2>of Bannon and is interested in what he's doing, and saying,

1:04:25.440 --> 1:04:27.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe because they knew each other, or maybe

1:04:27.720 --> 1:04:30.920
<v Speaker 2>because they were kind of socially distant, but still someone

1:04:31.160 --> 1:04:35.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't exactly know, right, but it's telling that he's like,

1:04:35.240 --> 1:04:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Bannon seems like a pretty good puppet master. In twenty sixteen,

1:04:40.200 --> 1:04:44.160
<v Speaker 2>here's Politico's summary of their relationship. The two texted frequently

1:04:44.200 --> 1:04:46.840
<v Speaker 2>about everything from the TV show Chernoble and a guessing

1:04:46.880 --> 1:04:49.520
<v Speaker 2>game over who pinned the twenty eighteen anonymous New York

1:04:49.520 --> 1:04:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Times op ed to their efforts to influence international geopolitics,

1:04:53.400 --> 1:04:57.080
<v Speaker 2>including shaping Europe's governing coalitions, ramping up pressure on China,

1:04:57.280 --> 1:05:00.600
<v Speaker 2>and forging business ties in the Middle East. At one point,

1:05:00.640 --> 1:05:03.600
<v Speaker 2>took credit for convincing Trump in twenty eighteen to impose

1:05:03.680 --> 1:05:06.560
<v Speaker 2>massive tariffs on China, gabbed with Epstein about his we

1:05:06.680 --> 1:05:08.600
<v Speaker 2>Build the Wall endeavor that would later end in a

1:05:08.640 --> 1:05:12.040
<v Speaker 2>federal indictment and presidential pardon, and gossiped about the latest

1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:15.520
<v Speaker 2>developments in Special Councer Robert Mueller's investigation, in which Bannon

1:05:15.600 --> 1:05:19.920
<v Speaker 2>was a subject. They're talking about everything, especially their crimes.

1:05:20.680 --> 1:05:23.720
<v Speaker 4>Don't forget that HBO limited run show.

1:05:24.560 --> 1:05:28.080
<v Speaker 3>I mean it is like largely an exercise and guilt

1:05:28.120 --> 1:05:31.280
<v Speaker 3>by association, but it is like the most damning.

1:05:32.360 --> 1:05:33.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's not damn it.

1:05:33.680 --> 1:05:37.560
<v Speaker 3>It's just like the evidence. It's like the pattern continues

1:05:37.600 --> 1:05:41.320
<v Speaker 3>to build and it is like, you know, again, this

1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:44.160
<v Speaker 3>goes back to My biggest thing has been, like, the

1:05:44.200 --> 1:05:47.680
<v Speaker 3>fuck was Trump thinking with release the Epstein files? Really? Like,

1:05:47.720 --> 1:05:50.080
<v Speaker 3>what do you hope to accomplish?

1:05:50.280 --> 1:05:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Hey, I don't think he had much choice. I don't

1:05:52.400 --> 1:05:55.760
<v Speaker 2>think he's at his full powers, you know. And unfortunately,

1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:58.240
<v Speaker 2>when you get your whole base obsessed with the idea

1:05:58.240 --> 1:06:00.920
<v Speaker 2>that he's explain everything, kind of have to.

1:06:01.760 --> 1:06:04.600
<v Speaker 3>But why start, why start on this? You knew it

1:06:04.640 --> 1:06:06.200
<v Speaker 3>was in this shit man arrogance.

1:06:07.240 --> 1:06:08.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, it was large. I think it was a

1:06:08.760 --> 1:06:12.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of other people, like fucking Trump used it. But

1:06:12.720 --> 1:06:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Trump wasn't the Trump left to his own devices, he

1:06:15.480 --> 1:06:17.560
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have had the idea to hang Epstein on these

1:06:17.600 --> 1:06:20.800
<v Speaker 2>guys because he talks about Clinton now as a friend right.

1:06:22.680 --> 1:06:22.760
<v Speaker 3>So.

1:06:22.840 --> 1:06:26.200
<v Speaker 2>In their private correspondence, Epstein and Bannon are very open

1:06:26.200 --> 1:06:29.840
<v Speaker 2>about their disdain for Donald Trump. Epstein calls him a grifter,

1:06:29.960 --> 1:06:32.919
<v Speaker 2>and Bannon repeatedly uses the term stable genius to mock

1:06:33.000 --> 1:06:36.360
<v Speaker 2>his former boss. The two got along because they both

1:06:36.360 --> 1:06:39.400
<v Speaker 2>had a vested interest in destroying the establishment as it existed.

1:06:39.800 --> 1:06:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Bannon gave Epstein advice on rehabilitating his image after his arrest,

1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:46.320
<v Speaker 2>even as Epstein himself acted as a free advice giver

1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:49.120
<v Speaker 2>to all the famous men impacted by me too. The

1:06:49.160 --> 1:06:52.280
<v Speaker 2>two men were very direct about their plans to subvert democracy.

1:06:52.600 --> 1:06:55.040
<v Speaker 2>In July of twenty eighteen, they talked about hiring hackers

1:06:55.120 --> 1:06:58.200
<v Speaker 2>or otherwise working to get them on our side. Epstein

1:06:58.240 --> 1:07:00.960
<v Speaker 2>included links to the website for hacking convention def con

1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:03.080
<v Speaker 2>as he pondered how they might influence these people. And

1:07:03.120 --> 1:07:05.479
<v Speaker 2>it's very clear for these emails neither of these guys

1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:09.160
<v Speaker 2>know much about hacking, although one reveal from the Epstein

1:07:09.160 --> 1:07:12.440
<v Speaker 2>files is that at least per Epstein's claims. In the files,

1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Epstein claims Peter Teel was funding Nazi hacker Weave for years,

1:07:17.360 --> 1:07:23.960
<v Speaker 2>which I do believe so Bannon asks, hey, do you

1:07:24.000 --> 1:07:26.360
<v Speaker 2>know any of these guys, and Epstein responds, some of

1:07:26.360 --> 1:07:29.040
<v Speaker 2>the founders, organizers. They are the most dangerous force in

1:07:29.040 --> 1:07:33.080
<v Speaker 2>today's society by far. Bioweapons pale due to blowback nuclear

1:07:33.120 --> 1:07:35.680
<v Speaker 2>a sixty year old technology. Whether sixty year old tech

1:07:35.720 --> 1:07:40.520
<v Speaker 2>frightens you. Space Frontier can't operate without software, so basically

1:07:40.640 --> 1:07:44.200
<v Speaker 2>saying like hackers are scarier than nukes or bioweapons, which

1:07:44.200 --> 1:07:46.920
<v Speaker 2>is also a dumb thing to say. Cool Bannon asks

1:07:46.960 --> 1:07:49.120
<v Speaker 2>if he thinks these kind of people can be bought,

1:07:49.400 --> 1:07:52.240
<v Speaker 2>and Epstein says yes, and he excitedly explains, you can

1:07:52.240 --> 1:07:54.760
<v Speaker 2>buy hacks, you can buy zero day exploits, right, you

1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:57.760
<v Speaker 2>see that in the email on here too. And he

1:07:57.800 --> 1:07:59.919
<v Speaker 2>says in other emails that he's wrestling with the task

1:08:00.000 --> 1:08:02.280
<v Speaker 2>of getting hackers who would work for Bannon and could

1:08:02.280 --> 1:08:07.440
<v Speaker 2>maybe find a zero data target crypto wallets or voting booths. Right, yeah, now,

1:08:07.600 --> 1:08:11.440
<v Speaker 2>there's no evidence they did this, certainly, and Epstein is

1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:14.400
<v Speaker 2>going to have other concerns very soon after these emails

1:08:14.440 --> 1:08:17.560
<v Speaker 2>get sent. This may have just been another example of himbloviating,

1:08:17.560 --> 1:08:19.559
<v Speaker 2>but it shows how he and Bannon are thinking, right,

1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:24.400
<v Speaker 2>and that's meaningful. At least there's more. At least they're dumb.

1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:27.280
<v Speaker 3>And if people still say script kitty, I can't believe,

1:08:28.120 --> 1:08:30.439
<v Speaker 3>you know, script kitty.

1:08:31.160 --> 1:08:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh script. I don't think it's super relevant these days.

1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:39.760
<v Speaker 3>Not anymore. That's Epstein, though I could buy buy an exploit,

1:08:40.000 --> 1:08:42.240
<v Speaker 3>sure man, Carly.

1:08:42.000 --> 1:08:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Ray Epstein, Yeah, good stuff, He's I don't know if

1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:49.240
<v Speaker 2>this is what I've got. There's an interview between him

1:08:49.240 --> 1:08:51.559
<v Speaker 2>and Bannon, but like Bannon was trying to make a

1:08:51.600 --> 1:08:54.840
<v Speaker 2>documentary on his friend. That's really telling that. I may

1:08:54.880 --> 1:08:57.800
<v Speaker 2>break down later for you guys, but I think this

1:08:57.840 --> 1:09:03.759
<v Speaker 2>is enough for now. I'm tired, begs Robert. I'm tapping

1:09:03.840 --> 1:09:08.040
<v Speaker 2>out personally. Yeah, from this, Oh my god.

1:09:08.479 --> 1:09:11.080
<v Speaker 3>But I think there's also like the trove is endless.

1:09:11.160 --> 1:09:13.759
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. The trove is endless, endless content.

1:09:13.840 --> 1:09:16.320
<v Speaker 4>We could do many more parts, and we might end

1:09:16.400 --> 1:09:16.920
<v Speaker 4>up having to.

1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:21.240
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I'd like maybe Apstein really just sacrificed

1:09:21.280 --> 1:09:24.400
<v Speaker 2>himself for the global content minds, you know, be ensure

1:09:24.400 --> 1:09:26.599
<v Speaker 2>that there were plenty of podcasts and YouTube videos.

1:09:26.880 --> 1:09:27.599
<v Speaker 3>Think about it.

1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:28.759
<v Speaker 4>I'd love to be done.

1:09:29.160 --> 1:09:31.439
<v Speaker 3>It hurts. Yeah, this was dayingful.

1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, I'm done. Goodbye?

1:09:36.320 --> 1:09:38.519
<v Speaker 3>Are we done, done, done, done, yeah okay.

1:09:41.840 --> 1:09:44.439
<v Speaker 4>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:47.280
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1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:50.479
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1:09:50.520 --> 1:09:54.439
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1:10:04.080 --> 1:10:07.320
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