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Speaker 1: Also media, welcome back for the last time today, I

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Speaker 1: guess or this week Behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 2: We're done with the Epstein Update episodes for now. This

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Speaker 2: this episode will be our last. Andrew T welcome back

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Speaker 2: to the show.

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Speaker 3: Oh thanks, thanks, thanks and scare quotes for having.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks and scare quotes the only thanks we get here.

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Speaker 3: I realized what your show is. You're you're sort of

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Speaker 3: like just like a low mimetic version of The Ring

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Speaker 3: where yeah, after after having been on the show or

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Speaker 3: listening to it, you know, in seven days, you will

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Speaker 3: want to die. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the That's that's what we go for

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Speaker 2: here at Behind the Bastards is to make all of

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Speaker 2: our listeners want to die.

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Speaker 3: Just the god. Now, you know what, less this has

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Speaker 3: been less grim than I thought it was going to be.

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Speaker 3: I will say not that it's not grim.

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Speaker 2: But the nice thing that's weird saying the night Andrew

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Speaker 2: doing these Epstein episodes is that we already did the

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Speaker 2: ones where we talked there's a lot more detail out now,

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Speaker 2: and we probably should at some point go back, but

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Speaker 2: we talked at length in the previous like four episodes

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Speaker 2: about all of the horrible sex trafficking crimes. So the

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Speaker 2: fact that we're just kind of focusing mostly on other

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Speaker 2: stuff here makes it less nightmarish than if we're just

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Speaker 2: going over all of the evidence of child molestation. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: not that we don't want to be highlighting that, but

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Speaker 2: we did, and everyone knows that stuff, and I think

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Speaker 2: this is also important, so we're getting into it.

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Speaker 4: Of course, I'm still pretty scow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, there's a lot that makes me sad.

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Speaker 3: As I said, I'm still an earlier episode. It's like,

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Speaker 3: even without that shit, he would be one of the

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Speaker 3: worst people ever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's one of those things. If it

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Speaker 2: weren't for the fact that he was also the giant

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Speaker 2: pedophile guy, I probably wouldn't be writing about just Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: Epstein's because, for one thing, we just don't know. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of like did he actually get moot to

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Speaker 2: create Pole or no? Like right, we just will never know.

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Speaker 2: But because of the other stuff, like I feel like

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Speaker 2: we do have to talk about how deeply tired he

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Speaker 2: is to all of these massively important things that are

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Speaker 2: happening in society, that he's talking to the major players

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Speaker 2: and trying to convince them of things right. It's weird

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Speaker 2: because this is kind of the only behind the bastards

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Speaker 2: where for the most part, I'm saying like, well, we

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Speaker 2: know he was trying to do something with this bad thing,

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Speaker 2: but we don't know how he influenced this bad thing,

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Speaker 2: which we don't normally do here. But I don't know

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Speaker 2: how else to handle Epstein right now, right.

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Speaker 3: We also don't know the history of everything that you know,

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Speaker 3: this band thing which is in progress.

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Speaker 2: Ryan Brodericks says, you know, Michael Wolfe probably connected Epstein

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Speaker 2: and Bannon in twenty seventeen, but there's evidence from earlier

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Speaker 2: that they would have known about each other, and we're

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Speaker 2: traveling in similar circles, but I can't prove they were

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Speaker 2: in contact earlier. But also millions of documents haven't been

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Speaker 2: released yet, so like who knows what else there is?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right?

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Speaker 2: Or did Bannon used to have a different email, right

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Speaker 2: and it wasn't under his name? I don't know. There

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Speaker 2: may be early emails for them under different emails in

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Speaker 2: the files that we just haven't found because it's not

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Speaker 2: immediately clear that it's banning yet. There's stuff like that

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Speaker 2: people have talked about, like JK Rowling, how like, well,

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Speaker 2: she definitely he was on the invite list for you know,

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Speaker 2: the Harry Potter play when it opened, but she says

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Speaker 2: they had no direct connection. There's not really hard evidence

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Speaker 2: of a direct connection. But there is an email with

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Speaker 2: a cinder redacted where it signed the way JK. Rowling

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Speaker 2: sometimes signs stuff, but that's not conclusive. So I don't know, right,

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Speaker 2: And hopefully as more stuff comes out, maybe there is

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Speaker 2: even more about her in the current files that just

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Speaker 2: haven't been found yet because people we haven't No one

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Speaker 2: knows everything that's in these files yet. Stuff's being found

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Speaker 2: every day, right, So that's one of the issues with

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Speaker 2: this is that I decided there was enough obviously for

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Speaker 2: four episodes now, but in a year, people will probably

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Speaker 2: be angry at you, Well you left this out well

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Speaker 2: because people aren't found yet. I don't know, man like,

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Speaker 2: or there's stuff I know I'm leaving out now that

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Speaker 2: I did find that was on my research doc that

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Speaker 2: I was just like, well, this is forty two pages long.

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Speaker 2: We got to call it somewhere, huhh.

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Speaker 3: And you know what, that's the beauty of podcasting. There's

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Speaker 3: always more podcasts.

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Speaker 2: That's the beauty of podcasting. You can always say good enough.

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Speaker 2: You know who else said good enough? Nope, that's a

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Speaker 2: bad way to talk about the Ferguson.

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Speaker 4: You're surely not doing that, Nope.

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Speaker 2: But we are starting with Ferguson in this episode. It's

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Speaker 2: very relevant to Jeffrey Epstein's intellectual journey because I've been

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Speaker 2: talking about ah Well. Obviously, the fact that he got

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Speaker 2: arrested in trouble has an impact on him because a

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Speaker 2: lot of his behavior seems to shift. He gets born

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Speaker 2: too right wing stuff. But that's also happening to his

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Speaker 2: whole community. All these tech billionaires and rich finance guys

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Speaker 2: are getting more pilled in the two thousands about this

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Speaker 2: stuff anyway. So maybe it would have happened if he

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Speaker 2: hadn't gotten convicted of anything. But there's a definite moment

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Speaker 2: that we can fairly easily say had a big impact

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Speaker 2: on how Jeffrey Epstein thought about the world, and it's Ferguson.

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Speaker 2: On August tenth, twenty fourteen, Ferguson, Missouri police officer Darren

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Speaker 2: Wilson shot Michael Brown and killed him. There were protests immediately,

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Speaker 2: and some people used the opportunity of the protests to

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Speaker 2: loot and engage in other criminal activity. The police are

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Speaker 2: included in the criminal activity that occurs after this shooting

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Speaker 2: because they're violence. In the fact that they all looked

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Speaker 2: like fucking soldiers kicked off further unrest and a national debate.

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Speaker 2: You all probably lived through pieces of this. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to re litigate everything that happened in Ferguson, but

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Speaker 2: the basics of it are very relevant to the Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: Epstein story because Ferguson wasn't just a tragedy in its

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Speaker 2: own right. It was a prelude to mass protests in

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Speaker 2: the wake of George Floyd's murder in twenty twenty, but

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Speaker 2: it also helped to inspire the fascist backlash that first

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Speaker 2: made itself obvious when mister Donald Trump announced his presidency

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Speaker 2: on June sixteenth, twenty fifteen. I don't think it's focused

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Speaker 2: on enough how close Ferguson is in time to Trump

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Speaker 2: announcing the start of his campaign, and how many older

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Speaker 2: white people with money see the videos from Ferguson of

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Speaker 2: the protests of these crowds of mostly black people who

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Speaker 2: are very rightfully angry and get fucking terrified, right because

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Speaker 2: they see this as stirrings of the kind of race

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Speaker 2: riots that they've never stopped fearing. Now we know that

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Speaker 2: Epstein began donating to far right content creators and talking

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Speaker 2: very openly about race science in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: not long after Ferguson, And we know that he paid

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Speaker 2: close attention on what was happening in Ferguson from an

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Speaker 2: early point, and that he talked about his predictions for

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Speaker 2: what might happen next with one of his good friends,

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Speaker 2: former Israeli Prime Minister at Hud Barack fucking well, no,

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Speaker 2: fucking it's always and then he talked about it with

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Speaker 2: his friend, this influential monster.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying, he's the Where's walthough of fat guys.

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Speaker 4: He's fucking everywhere.

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Speaker 2: He really fucking is now in ways that.

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Speaker 3: Don't even always make sense to It's just like it

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Speaker 3: feels like they're the writer's just cramming in mon Man.

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Speaker 2: I guess he hasn't shown up in the show for

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Speaker 2: a while. Bring hood Barack in, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: How'd that friendship start? Do we know?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's there's information about that one, because he's

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Speaker 2: one of the guys we knew was an Epstein friend

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Speaker 2: way before the releases started, right, they've been very like

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Speaker 2: publicly buddies. So what happens here is Michael Brown gets

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Speaker 2: shot in Ferguson and protests start, right, Yeah, And Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: at some point, probably pretty soon after that, is talking

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Speaker 2: with a hood Barack and says, here's what I think's

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Speaker 2: going to happen next, right, and like lays out a

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Speaker 2: prediction for what's going to happen to Ferguson. And we

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Speaker 2: don't know exactly what that prediction was or what he said,

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Speaker 2: but we do know that on November twenty fourth, a

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Speaker 2: grand jury fails to indict Wilson for killing Michael Brown.

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Speaker 2: More protests follow, and some people respond to a man

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Speaker 2: getting away with murder by rioting. Police cars are burned.

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Speaker 2: There's a murder of a man in a parked car.

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Speaker 2: It's really unclear, I think still who does that and

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Speaker 2: why that happens, But it's a big deal, right. What

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Speaker 2: happens in Ferguson in November of that year is like

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Speaker 2: hugely influential all across the country. On November twenty sixth,

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Speaker 2: two days after the grand jury fails to indict Wilson,

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Speaker 2: a hud Barak sends this email to Jeffrey Epstein that

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Speaker 2: you're seeing on your screen right now. Jeff, you've accurately

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Speaker 2: predicted the eruption, and together we'd predicted the mistakes which

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Speaker 2: will follow. Let's hope it won't get worse. Ari, light

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Speaker 2: and strong. I'll call you tomorrow morning. Your time, best,

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Speaker 2: eb And then he's linked there a CEE in an

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Speaker 2: article called Ferguson braces for more unrest. Right, So, I

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Speaker 2: want to really emphasize what's happening here. Jeffrey is concerned

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Speaker 2: enough about the potential of race riots in the United

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Speaker 2: States that he's like looking for them. So as soon

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Speaker 2: as Ferguson happens, he is concerned, and he reaches out

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Speaker 2: to his friend, who he thinks would be the best

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Speaker 2: friend to talk to about his fear that a racial

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Speaker 2: minority in his country is getting violent, the former Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister of Israel. Okay, there's a lot, a lot you

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Speaker 2: can read into this conversation.

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Speaker 4: Right boy, how I hate them all?

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Speaker 2: So I think Ferguson has a lot to do with

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Speaker 2: why the next year, Epstein sends twenty five thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: to a white nationalist YouTube, Right, I think it has

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Speaker 2: a lot to do with a lot of shit that follows.

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Speaker 2: I think it has a lot to do with why

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Speaker 2: he starts reading fucking Breitbart.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I've talked in other episodes. We've known for a while

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Speaker 2: that Epstein had a weird obsession with seeding his own

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Speaker 2: DNA into the human race, and our previous episodes we

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Speaker 2: talked about how he had discussed with his friends that

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Speaker 2: he wanted to have a stud ranch where women would

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Speaker 2: raise his babies and the babies of other genius men.

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Speaker 2: He talked about this, both want to I need to

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Speaker 2: have a lot of babies for the good of mankind,

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Speaker 2: and also obviously smart people should be the ones having

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Speaker 2: basy eugenicist right, he's talking this is Elon Muskshit. He's friends,

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Speaker 2: you know, but he's interested in the same kind of

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Speaker 2: stuff and absent other informations. When I first cover this,

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Speaker 2: I chalked it up as more classic rich guy narcissism.

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Speaker 2: My immediate thing was like, oh, this guy wants a

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Speaker 2: bunch of kids because he's a narcissist, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: really see oh no, no. This guy is also very

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Speaker 2: specifically a white nationalist, right, a budding white nationalist at

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Speaker 2: the very least which Epstein is. By this point, the

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Speaker 2: releases have made this different picture very clear, and I

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Speaker 2: think it makes the most sense when you look at

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Speaker 2: it through the prism a Ferguson. An article on futurism

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Speaker 2: dot com describes how Jeff's interests evolved after Ferguson. In

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, Epstein emailed German cognitive scientist and then MIT

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Speaker 2: professor Joshua Bach, indicating that he was interested in the

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Speaker 2: idea of genetically modifying black people to make them smarter.

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Speaker 2: The Telegraph found Bach had received a roughly four hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars donation from Epstein. Those are tied, that's tied

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Speaker 2: to his interpretation of Ferguson. And that's not a small donation.

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Speaker 4: It's just a fucking freaking little race science nazi.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's just a race scientist. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, but that's like conservatives, right, That is like

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Speaker 3: the extent loss is also the other way to look

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Speaker 3: at it is this is cutting edge conservative thought and

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Speaker 3: it has been from the last however many thousands of years.

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Speaker 3: This is as good as it gets for these people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you know it's one of those things.

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Speaker 2: Obviously he's afraid of Black Americans, and this fear was

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Speaker 2: heightened by Ferguson, but also just given a social life.

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Speaker 2: He's social a lot with wealthy and influential and famous

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Speaker 2: black people, right, So he's not the kind of racist

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Speaker 2: who can't be friendly to some black people, right. He

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Speaker 2: obviously can. But his conversations with his fellow white intellectuals,

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Speaker 2: or at least he saw himself as intellectual, made it

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Speaker 2: clear that he saw successful and intelligent black people as outliers.

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Speaker 2: And when you really want to get into how racist

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Speaker 2: Jeff Epstein is by twenty sixteen, there's no better place

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Speaker 2: to go.

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Speaker 4: Huh hey when you call him Jeff Jeffy.

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Speaker 2: There's no better way to talk about how fucking racist

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein has become by twenty sixteen than to look

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Speaker 2: at his emails with Nom Chomsky. Oh no, oh no.

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Speaker 2: On Sunday, February seventh, twenty sixteen, Jeff emailed Nome after

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Speaker 2: apparently hanging out together. So he had been hanging out

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Speaker 2: with Nome and I guess Nome's partner that night because

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Speaker 2: he says thank you both for tonight, and then he

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Speaker 2: tells Noam Chomsky that hey, man, if you want I

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Speaker 2: can have my private jet, the Lalita Express, pick you

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Speaker 2: up in Boston and take you to my private island

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Speaker 2: and return whenever you like. Right, and Nome calls this

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Speaker 2: invitation eight years after Epstein had been exposed for child

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Speaker 2: sex trafficking tempting. Now, maybe he's just blowing Jeffrey off here,

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Speaker 2: but Epstein doesn't read it that way. Epstein takes Noam

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Speaker 2: Chomsky's response as an invitation to keep chatting, this time

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Speaker 2: about racism, so he continues. After inviting him to his

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Speaker 2: sex island, he says, on a different note, you have

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Speaker 2: encouraged me to look at data, no holds barred mortgages, inequalities, opportunities.

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Speaker 2: I have seen some things through your eyes, and for

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Speaker 2: that I am grateful. The test score gap amongst African

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Speaker 2: Americans is well documented twenty years of and then he

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Speaker 2: spells testing testsing many, which might be said to like,

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Speaker 2: if you can't spell the word testing right, maybe your

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Speaker 2: complaints about other people that are smart issue are kind

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Speaker 2: of bullshit. But he continues many countries. James Watson, who's

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Speaker 2: the racist guy who helped or arguably helped figure out

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Speaker 2: the structure of DNA and was also like a DNA

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Speaker 2: show like black people learn as smart as white people. Guy, right,

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Speaker 2: James Watson big racist?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: So Epstein continues, James Watson had some of his private

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Speaker 2: views made public and hints his dismissal from society. He

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Speaker 2: told me that after one sentence he became an un

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Speaker 2: person making things and he spells the word things wrong.

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Speaker 2: Better might require accepting some uncomfortable facts. You told me that.

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Speaker 2: So this is Epstein broaching a conversation with Chomsky. Hey,

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Speaker 2: you know you told me to look at the data. Well,

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Speaker 2: let's convince me that racism's right. How do you think

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Speaker 2: about that? Nom Chomsky? And no, and I get is no.

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Speaker 4: I'm like you're yeah, yeah, brother, No I No.

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Speaker 2: Nome pushes back, I will say that, okay, right. Nome

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Speaker 2: pushes back, and he points out that like, obviously, outcomes

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Speaker 2: for some a kid like me when I was a kid,

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Speaker 2: are going to be different from a kid that quote

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Speaker 2: is part of a group that for four hundred years,

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Speaker 2: had a chance for about two or three decades to

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Speaker 2: enter the mainstream society, and then with a constant legacy

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Speaker 2: of miserable racism. He's being like, yeah, of course, skills

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Speaker 2: will be lower because like our society hurts these people

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Speaker 2: their entire lives, and that impacts test scores. Right, that's

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Speaker 2: what Chomsky is saying. Right. He says that Epstein's data

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Speaker 2: has no scientific interest, but he also says the greater

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Speaker 2: issue is for later discussion, which I find interesting. Chomsky

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Speaker 2: knows this is bullshit. He knows what his friend is

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Speaker 2: saying is offensive, and he says kind of that. But

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Speaker 2: then he's like, but we can talk about this later.

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Speaker 2: You know you want to keep talking. I'm always down

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Speaker 2: to talk about race science with you. Jeffrey Epstein, though,

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Speaker 2: doesn't take the hint, and he keeps the conversation going.

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Speaker 2: He admits that he's aware of the potential for abuse

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Speaker 2: with genetic engineering and eugenics. However, imagine that a set

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Speaker 2: of genes could be used for working memory, like the

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Speaker 2: ones for tay Sacks disease could be found and adjusted

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Speaker 2: not looking seems cruel. And he's bringing up the argument

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Speaker 2: that anyone makes if you're trying to convince a hostile source,

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Speaker 2: that you need to accept the initial tenets of eugenesis, thinking, well, look,

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Speaker 2: obviously there's problems with this, Yeah, but look at this

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Speaker 2: horrible disease that happens to kids when they're in the womb.

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Speaker 2: If you could knock that out, wouldn't that be good? Right?

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be good?

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Speaker 3: Do you hate kids?

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Speaker 2: And like anyone's gonna say, like, yeah, what if we

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Speaker 2: could make kids who have their lungs born on the

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Speaker 2: outside of their bodies have their lungs on the inside

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Speaker 2: of their bodies? Great? But then the conversation goes from

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Speaker 2: there to like, what if we want to make sure

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Speaker 2: that people aren't born with a certain skin color? And

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Speaker 2: one of the things that's interesting to me is that, like,

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Speaker 2: if you are at a eugenicist and you're trying to

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Speaker 2: like corrupt someone right and get them to agree with you,

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Speaker 2: you'll start the way that Jeffrey ends here, which is weird.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: You don't start with, Hey, i've been looking at the

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Speaker 2: numbers and it looks like black people aren't a smart

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Speaker 2: as white people. That's not how you start that conversation.

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Speaker 2: And Epstein does, and then Chomsky smacks him down, and

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Speaker 2: so Epstein pivots and he ends whe The conversation normally

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Speaker 2: starts where he's like, well, what about these kids with

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Speaker 2: tas SAXS disease? Should we be fixing that, right, Chomsky

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Speaker 2: calls Jeff's proposition almost inconceivable and then says, but if

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Speaker 2: it could be done, I think there would be far

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Speaker 2: more important uses, like changing the genes for dedicated savagery

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Speaker 2: and lack of concern for the welfare or even security

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Speaker 2: of the population on the part of that sector of

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Speaker 2: educated elites that reaches positions of power. And I'd love

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Speaker 2: to appreciate that response more if he wasn't sending it

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Speaker 2: to his friend Jeffrey Epstein's who continued to communicate with

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Speaker 2: for years after his arrests for sexual trafficking.

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Speaker 3: I mean, but I think the thing is in the

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Speaker 3: frat house version of it. This is just like ribbing

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Speaker 3: because you know, right, Oh, that's Jeff's foible. He's a

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Speaker 3: fucking pedophile fascist. We can all joke about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Like it's the chumminess.

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Speaker 2: That's like, it's the friendliness, but it's the you could, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's the chomp the fact that he's so willing to

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Speaker 2: continue this relationship, right, Yeah, I mean you could, I

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Speaker 2: guess if you wanted to feel good that. Chomsky pushes back,

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Speaker 2: but he keeps hanging out with Epstein repeatedly in person,

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Speaker 2: they hang out in person a lot that's fucked up.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's it's also the like like not a

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Speaker 3: real pushback if you're like, it's not a real stone.

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Speaker 2: No, And it's what we see here. And one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons why this is really interesting to me not

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Speaker 2: just to like shit on no Chompsky. I don't really

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Speaker 2: care about that one way or the other. What this

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Speaker 2: is evidence of is as an active attempt by Epstein

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Speaker 2: to influence Noam Chomsky, who is himself very influential on

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Speaker 2: the American left, to try and further mainstream scientific racism.

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Speaker 2: That's what he's doing here. He is trying to get

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Speaker 2: Chomsky to start going down the road he's going down

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Speaker 2: because he knows Chomsky can influence in even a large

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Speaker 2: chunk of the country and maybe make them more amenable

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Speaker 2: to scientific racism. That's what he's trying to do because

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Speaker 2: that's how Jeffrey thinks about everyone who's his quote unquote friend, right.

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Speaker 2: He thinks about them in terms of what can I

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Speaker 2: get out of them, And that's how he's thinking about

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Speaker 2: Chomsky during this convert There's other stuff he gets from Chomsky, obviously,

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Speaker 2: but this is one thing he's trying to get and

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Speaker 2: that he doesn't seem to get out of him. It's

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Speaker 2: the same playbook we saw Epstein to play with Bobby Kotick, right,

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Speaker 2: this is how he operates. What these new files reveal

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Speaker 2: is that Jeffrey Epstein was an active and influential part

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Speaker 2: of the reactionary wave often just called the alt right

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Speaker 2: that's struck from twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen and brought

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Speaker 2: us all the authoritarian bullshit we're living with today. He's

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Speaker 2: a part of that, and he's trying to bring Chomsky

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Speaker 2: into it right. A huge part, well, Chomsky does. A

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Speaker 2: huge part of the class that he's a part of

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Speaker 2: follows him down this road. And part of why they

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Speaker 2: do is because Epstein works on them one by one

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Speaker 2: to encourage them to think differently and to ask uncomfortable questions.

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Speaker 2: He's not the only one doing this, right, He's not

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Speaker 2: the leading one doing this. Part of why all of

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Speaker 2: these Silicon Valley guys go fash is that a core

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Speaker 2: of them start by saying like, well as the brain

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Speaker 2: trust in America is is the only ones who are

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Speaker 2: really intelligent, I really know what's going on. Because of

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Speaker 2: all the money we've made it's incumbent on us to

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Speaker 2: ask uncomfortable questions and you know, to consider things that

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Speaker 2: that less intelligent people might consider forbidden. You know, so

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Speaker 2: let's look into it, right, And that always just means racism.

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Speaker 2: That's the only thing that means, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, sometimes it's a little bit of gender science

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Speaker 3: and masada and sometimes pedophilia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are, there are. And I can remember as

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Speaker 2: a kid there's this big book called Disinfo that I

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Speaker 2: read that was like, it was a bunch of essays

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Speaker 2: about uncomfortable questions, challenging traditional logic and ethics, right, and

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Speaker 2: I found parts of it very interesting, And then I

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Speaker 2: got to an essay that was like, oh, this guy's

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Speaker 2: just arguing about fucking kids. Oh that's what this is about.

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Speaker 3: This is it? Yeah, well but it's the same thing why.

400
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Speaker 3: It's why Anne Rand is appealing when you're like fucking fourteen, right,

401
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 3: because you don't know anything. But once you learn something,

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Speaker 3: most people at least Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's these fuckers talk all the time about uncomfortable

404
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Speaker 2: questions and challenging orthodoxy, and not one of them will

405
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Speaker 2: be like, hey, what if we just didn't have billionaires

406
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Speaker 2: in money, like what we uh, what if we didn't

407
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Speaker 2: do that? What if you couldn't like just throw a

408
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Speaker 2: bunch of money into a thing and then own thousands

409
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Speaker 2: of people's livelihoods because you were born rich. What if

410
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Speaker 2: that was not a thing we could do? Like, that's

411
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Speaker 2: not the dangerous questions. It's all like, what if black

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Speaker 2: people aren't people like that's the dangerous question? Or what

413
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Speaker 2: if fifteen year olds are fine to have sex with

414
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Speaker 2: Those are the dangerous questions that the intellectuals are always

415
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Speaker 2: talking about when they say dangerous questions. And Jeffrey Shift

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Speaker 2: here his interest in this shit, That's what I'm trying

417
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Speaker 2: to say. Like all of he is not novel. He

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Speaker 2: has more influence than most, but a lot of these

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Speaker 2: guys are thinking the same way, and he's using his

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Speaker 2: money to support and encourage them to continue this shift.

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Speaker 2: And I want to tell a story that kind of

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Speaker 2: makes this point for me. And the story starts with

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Speaker 2: the guy named John Brockman. Brockman is a major figure

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Speaker 2: in the New York art scenes starting in the nineteen sixties.

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Speaker 2: He is a peer of Andy Warhol, and he eventually

426
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Speaker 2: becomes one of the most powerful literary agents in the city.

427
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Speaker 2: His specialty is books about science and futurism, and he

428
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 2: works with big name academics and thinkers, which means that

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Speaker 2: he makes a lot of money. Brockman describes himself as

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Speaker 2: a cultural impresario. Right sure man, cool cool.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, already don't like you, my guyen ninety.

432
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 2: He creates the Edge Foundation. This is an informal association

433
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: of intellectuals who meet primarily online, and this is seen

434
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: as a digital evolution from an older similar group that

435
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 2: met in person called the Reality Club. The Reality Club

436
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: we're getting back in American intellectual tradition by a few

437
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 2: decades here. But the Reality Club per an article on

438
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: their own website, I'm going to talk about like what

439
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: this group was. Reality Club members presented their work with

440
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 2: the understanding that they will be challenged. The hallmark of

441
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: the Reality Club has been rigorous and sometimes impolite discourse.

442
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 2: The motto of the Club was inspired by the late

443
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: artist philosopher James Lee Byers to arrive at the edge

444
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 2: of the world's knowledge, seek out the most complex and

445
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: sophisticated minds, put them in a room together, and have

446
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: him ask each other the questions they are asking themselves.

447
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: And that's a great idea. It's a beautiful idea. We've

448
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: hit the edge of the world's knowledge. Let's get the

449
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 2: smartest people together to see if we can extend that edge.

450
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 2: But what happens James Lee byers his whole abilities that

451
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: this will let us accomplish the extraordinary, right, But what

452
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: actually happens is when these guys get together, primarily they

453
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 2: talk about like what if people couldn't vote if they

454
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 2: were poor, what if we had more money, what if

455
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: I could fuck teenage girls? Those are like the three

456
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: big issues at the edge of human knowledge that these

457
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: guys are really interested in it.

458
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: It's like, as you said, the idea of the club

459
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 3: seems cool, like with the additional caveat that, like anytime

460
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 3: anything like that has ever existed in all of human history,

461
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 3: it's always self. Self proclaiming that you fit these attributes

462
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 3: is pretty much the main reason you should not ever

463
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 3: be part of the discussion like this.

464
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: I think one of the things Einstein would have point

465
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: out to these people is that if you have locked

466
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: yourself out as being the absolute smartest in society and

467
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 2: are isolating yourself from everybody else, it's probably evidence that

468
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: you're not the smartest people in society. Yeah, but Brockman

469
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: really loves this idea. He considers these.

470
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 3: People always love this shit.

471
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's you know, I don't know much about him,

472
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: but he other than that, but he considers these scientists

473
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: and these other thinkers in the empirical space, the guys

474
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: that Epstein is hanging out with, these philosophers and bitcoin

475
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: nerds and whatnot. He calls them the third culture. That's

476
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 2: his term for these people, right, because they're separate from

477
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: the culture everyone else lives in, because their minds are

478
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 2: so far ahead of everyone else.

479
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 3: Right.

480
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: Brockman is close with Jeffrey Epstein, and he considers him

481
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: to be one of these Third Culture members who, through

482
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: their unusual insight and brilliance, are making the future. Brockman

483
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: is such an Epstein believer that he attends a dinner

484
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: at Jeff's mansion after he was released from prison. In

485
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: the New Republic of Ginny Morozov describes Brockman as the

486
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: intellectual enabler of Epstein. Brockman bragged that the edge foundation,

487
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: this salon of his was redefining who and what we are,

488
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: and he connected Epstein to important people because he wanted

489
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: his friend Jeff to have a chance to change the world. Now,

490
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 2: one of Brockman's clients is joy Edo of MIT and

491
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: in fact, Brockman may have been how Epstein and Itedo met.

492
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: He may have at least helped to encourage them to

493
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: become friends. We know many other prominent intellectuals like Stephen Pinker,

494
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: were first connected to Epstein by Brockman. So in a way,

495
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: Brockman has been with us this whole story, helping to

496
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: put up and coming technologists, thinkers, and researchers in a

497
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: room with a pedophile sex trafficker. When all of this dropped,

498
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 2: author of Jenny Morozov found himself shocked. His books were

499
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: represented by Brockman's agency, and he decided to look through

500
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 2: his emails with Brockman to see, like, are there any

501
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: signs that like something bad was going on here? And

502
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: he finds an email from twenty thirteen that really gives

503
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: you an idea of how Brockman and Epstein baited the

504
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: hook when they're trying to get these intellectuals interested in them. Right,

505
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to quote from Morozov's article in the New

506
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: Republic here. It was very laconic. Je Fyi JB followed

507
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: by my short bio and some media clippings. Strangely, it

508
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: was sent to me and had no other contacts in CC.

509
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: Perhaps he wanted toscend it to JE but put my

510
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: email there by mistake. When I commented on the meaning

511
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 2: of this cryptic message, he responded with the following message,

512
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: reproduced here in full. I missed that one. Jeffrey Epstein,

513
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: the billionaire scientist philanthropists, showed up at this weekends event

514
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: by helicopter with his beautiful young assistant from Belarus. He'll

515
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: be in Cambridge in a couple of weeks and asked

516
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: me who he should meet. You are one of the

517
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: people I suggested, and I told him I would send

518
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: some links. He's the guy who gave Harvard thirty million

519
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: dollars to set up Martin Oak. He's been incredibly generous

520
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: and funding projects of many of our friends and clients.

521
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: He also got into trouble and spent a year in

522
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: jail in Florida. Crazy way to say he's a registered

523
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: child sex offender. He't got into trouble spend a year

524
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: in jail in Florida.

525
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: I spent a year Jill, Florida.

526
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 4: We've lost the plot, guys, come on, come on.

527
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like mentioning young young assistant is like, I mean,

528
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: obviously that's how they would do it, but like, yeah,

529
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: like what's wrong with you?

530
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 4: Like I hate these people.

531
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 3: If you wrote dialogue this heavy hand, you would absolutely

532
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 3: be run out of out of Hollywood, absolutely and in

533
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 3: a heartbeat, yeah.

534
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: Anyway, that's all nuts. But Brockman suggests that if Epstein

535
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: reaches reached out to Morozov, it's probably worth your time

536
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: to respond to him, right, so's he's basically being like,

537
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: and I don't even know if this missed email isn't

538
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: intentional or not, if he's like trying to whatever he

539
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: is sending Epstein information about this guy, and he's telling Morozov,

540
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: I know he's you know, he's he's a controversial figure,

541
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: but you should meet with him. He's really interesting and

542
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 2: obviously he's got a lot of money that he can

543
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: put towards your work.

544
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 3: Right.

545
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: And then, after saying it's worth probably worth your time,

546
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: Brockman tells this story about Epstein. Last time I visited

547
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: his house, the largest private residence in New York City.

548
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: I walked in to find him in a sweatsuit and

549
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: a British guy in a suit with suspenders getting foot

550
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: massages from two young, well dressed Russian women. After grilling

551
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: me for a while about cybersecurity. The brit named Andy

552
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: was commenting on the Swedish author and the chargers against

553
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: Julian Assange. We think they're liberal in Sweden, but it's

554
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: more like northern England as opposed to southern Europe, he said.

555
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: In Monaco, Albert works twelve hours a day, but at

556
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 2: nine pm when he goes out, he does whatever he

557
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: wants and nobody cares. But if I do it, I'm

558
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: in big trouble. At that point I realized the recipient

559
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: of Arena's foot massage was his Royal Highness, Prince Andrew,

560
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: the Duke of York. Now Brockman is telling this story

561
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: because he thinks it's cool. He thinks it'll convince Morozov.

562
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: He's just gotta meet Epstein.

563
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 3: WHOA.

564
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: I walked in on him and the largest residence in

565
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: New York, and he was getting He was clearly hanging

566
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: out with two prostitutes and the fucking Prince Andrew, the

567
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: Duke of York. That's so I gotta get in on

568
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: that myself, you know, that's what why Brockman tells this story, right, Yes, there.

569
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 3: Is like a hindsight lens that like, obviously we know,

570
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: but yeah.

571
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: I mean I will see. Yeah, there's a who knows

572
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: what Brockman was entirely aware of, but I will see

573
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: in terms of the people who knew this was fucked

574
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: up at the time. Morizov gets this email and it's

575
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: like absolutely not right, I don't I don't want any

576
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: part of this shit. And he says that five fuck

577
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: that stuff, man, that sounds weird. And then Brockman changes

578
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: his attitude and it's like, yeah, okay. So Morozov's conclusion

579
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: is that Brockman was acted basically as Epstein's pr man,

580
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: and he does this because he needs Epstein. Epstein is

581
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: funding the whole Edge Foundation. Jeffrey's assorted donations provided six

582
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty eight thousand of the eight hundred and

583
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: fifty seven thousand dollars in funding the organization received from

584
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: two thousand and one to twenty seventeen. Epstein was, per

585
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: BuzzFeed News, by far the largest donor. In fact, one

586
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: could argue the Edge Foundation and all its billionaire dinners

587
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: seem to have existed largely to connect Jeffrey Epstein to

588
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: tech billionaires in public intellectuals right, because one of the

589
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: things they start doing in the aunts is Rockman starts

590
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: putting together dinners with billionaires like that. They call it

591
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: the Billionaire Dinners, and Epstein's nearly always there. Right. Given

592
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: the private nature of these events, we don't fully know

593
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: what he used his influence to do, but he wouldn't

594
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: have put more than six hundred thousand dollars into this

595
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: foundation if it wasn't worth it to him. One regular

596
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: tradition was that Brockman would send out a list of

597
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: questions for the members of the Edge Foundation to answer

598
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: each year, like what is your dangerous idea? The answers

599
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: would be published on their website, which The Guardian called

600
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: the World's Smartest. So again, everyone's sucking these people off

601
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: in the odds. Brockman also used his influence to host

602
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: annual billionaires dinners, as I mentioned, and Epstein was a

603
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: common feature. This is how some major tech billionaires wind

604
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: up connected to Epstein via email via Mandy Castigan's article.

605
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: Quote email threads, which sometimes included Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos,

606
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: and Elon Musk, later turned into private conferences at Epstein

607
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: and Brockman's properties, as well as public events and debates.

608
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: Brockman Wants bragged to Epstein that the network of the

609
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: forty guests at my two fourteen Billionaire's dinner was equal

610
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: to the combined wealth of sixty percent of all Americans.

611
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, that seems lower than I thought.

612
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't the dangerous idea that that's bad?

613
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 4: I just like to think that they're like, all right, guys,

614
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: let's let's do an icebreak or so everybody gets to

615
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 4: know each other. What's your dangerous idea?

616
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, my dangerous idea is that all of you should

617
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: be fucking taken out by a drone strike like one

618
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: in that dinner would have saved the world some problems.

619
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: My god, so juvenile. It's so juvenile.

620
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 4: And idea that's like, that's like a bad fucking like

621
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 4: Tinder message, like.

622
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: Off again, fuck off all the billionaires at these billionaire's

623
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: dinners hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, emailing with Jeffrey Epstein,

624
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: can see that he's going to be there, can see

625
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: that he's in the email threads, are talking him to

626
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: him sometimes on the email threads, and This is years

627
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: after his arrest and his conviction. Right, for most of

628
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: Jeffrey's donations to EDGE start after his arrest, and he

629
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: attends his first Billionaire's dinner in twenty eleven. Right, But

630
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: we know these dinners go back further, and we know

631
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: that in earlier years, like two thousand and three, his

632
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: close associate Sarah Kellen, was one of the few women

633
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: present at this dinner. To give a brief summary of

634
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: what exactly Sarah's role was in Epstein's operation, here's a

635
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: paragraph from an article about her divorce from NASCAR star

636
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: Brian Vickers. Court documents accused her of helping to arrange

637
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: illegal massage sessions with underage girls. In twenty twenty two,

638
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: a federal judge said she shared criminal responsibility while sentencing

639
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: Gilan Maxwell. However, authorities never filed criminal charges against Kellen. Kellen,

640
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: who worked with Jeffrey connecting people to illegal massage sessions,

641
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: is at the Billionaire's dinner in two thousand and three

642
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: before Jeffrey, as far as we know, is even at

643
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: these huh huh, interesting, I mean interesting, Yeah.

644
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: I.

645
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 3: Imagine some this is somewhat like the rhetorical path you've

646
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 3: been leading us down. But it is like shocking how

647
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: much pedophilia is like an integral part of this whole

648
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: power structure everything these guys intellectualism, like it's always that,

649
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: it's somehow always that.

650
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: Once you get this kind of rich, the most painful

651
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: and annoying thing in the world is anyone telling you

652
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: you can't do something. And I think that that has

653
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: something to do with it. Some of these guys, I'm

654
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: sure would always have you know, gone after underaged, you know,

655
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: kids and stuff. But I do think some of it

656
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: might just be like the sense of impunity they have

657
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: that like nothing should be illegal for me, nothing should

658
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: be beyond me. Right, I don't know, and I don't

659
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: know who else. Maybe no one made Maybe Sarah didn't

660
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 2: connect anyone with legal massages at the Billionaire's Dinner. Maybe

661
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: she was just a great conversationalist who happened to as

662
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: a judge, says be deep complicit and Jeffrey Epstein's illegal

663
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: sex trafficking who knows? So that twenty eleven dinner Epstein

664
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: attended feature Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brinn, and Elon Musk, all

665
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: of whom deny doing anything but briefly meeting Epstein at

666
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 2: this event. This was not the only dinner he had

667
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: with some of these folks, though. In August of twenty fifteen,

668
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: billionaire Tom Pritzker, cousin of JB. Pritzker, asked Epstein if

669
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: he was available to hang out. Jeff replied, not sure yet.

670
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: I had dinner with Zuckerberg, Musk, Teal Hoffmann wild. And

671
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 2: then he sends a photo of this event, and it

672
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: looks Sylvie as shady as you'd guess. They're at like

673
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: a dark table. You can see Elon in one corner,

674
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: whoever took the photo is sitting right next to Mark

675
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: fucking Zuckerberg. Like it is just the shadiest looking dinner,

676
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: but it's also like.

677
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 3: A moron's idea of what power looks like. It's like

678
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 3: rucking the Doctor Evil set up.

679
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: It's the Doctor Evils? Does it does look like the

680
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 2: Doctor Evils set up? And Mark Zuckerberg looks like he's

681
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: rethinking being there, like maybe it's just sitting across from

682
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: Elon Musk is annoying as shit. I don't know.

683
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh man, the photo that must have been Epstein

684
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 5: taking it from right.

685
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know, but he's right. If so, then

686
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: he was right next to Mark Zuckerberg. I can't tell it.

687
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 2: That may be Priscilla Shan right next to him. Yeah,

688
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: I can't tell, but I can't. I can't tell. I

689
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: don't know everyone in the photo, but you can. I mean,

690
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: he says Bezos is there, and that's definitely Musk and

691
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: and Zuckerberg, right, speaking of people who went to dinners

692
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: with Elon Musk and Jeffrey Epstein, none of them support

693
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: this podcast. Maybe it's impossible to say.

694
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is your least accurate ad throw I've heard.

695
00:35:50,280 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, and we're back. So the Edge Foundation is

696
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: interesting to me because it's of what it is a

697
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: precursor for. This is like the more exclusive version for

698
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 2: actual powerful people. But the basic idea that like we're

699
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: going to ask hard questions and come up with the

700
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 2: future is going to come Like that's going to basically

701
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 2: be the operating principle for another group of annoying rich

702
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: guys who are going to come a few years later. Right.

703
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: In a write up for the trans News Network, Maddie

704
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 2: cast again more accurately describes the Edge Foundation as quote

705
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: a loose predecessor for the far right intellectual Dark Web.

706
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: And I think she's right on the money there, right,

707
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 2: or at least I think it's accurate to say the

708
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: intellectual dark web is taking some of these ideas, but

709
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: being like, look, number one billionaires don't have time to

710
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: write this bullshit. They're not thinking up stuff. They're they're

711
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: living out on their yachts, they're surfing. We got to

712
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: find some guys who aren't quite as rich who will

713
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: start thinking dangerous ideas and writing about maybe we should

714
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 2: be racist, maybe it is okay to have sex with children, right,

715
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: Like we need we need our we need our intellectual

716
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 2: dark web to get that information out to the PLBs. Right,

717
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: So I think there's some value in sort of looking

718
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: at it that way, right, To continue from her articles.

719
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: A gang of people whose main like main skill is

720
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 3: somehow convincing at least some number of people that the

721
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: basic pervasive ideas of like your average KKK member is

722
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: somehow interesting and like Foreboden and like worth exploring.

723
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: It's playing on one of the worst things about the

724
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: American psyche, which is our like deeply ingrained sense of

725
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: oppositional defiant disorder. Because if you just say, hey, you

726
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: know the things that everyone else says they're good, what

727
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: if they're bad? And then a bunch of people will

728
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: give you money and let you write for The Atlantic.

729
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

730
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: Uh, the Atlantic, which is run by a friend of

731
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein's anyway, whatever, so is the New York Times whatever?

732
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: Yeah so, to continue from Mandy Castigan's article for the

733
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: Trans News Network. During the research for this article, trans

734
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: News Network uncovered at least eight prominent anti transfigures affiliated

735
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: with Edge or with the IDW who received support from

736
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: Epstein or even visited his island, often through connections with

737
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: Brockman or physicist Lawrence Krauss. Now, it's noteworthy that so

738
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: many super smart Edge people as well as the IDW folks,

739
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: picked hating trans people as their dangerous intellectual idea. One

740
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: of the most noteworthy members of this crew is Epstein's

741
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 2: good friend Lawrence Kraus, As was stated in that quote above,

742
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 2: Kraus is a famous physicist and right wing crank who

743
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: taught at Arizona State University, where only the best scientists work.

744
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: In two thousand and six, he hosted a conference on

745
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: Epstein's island with Stephen Hawking. So he's responsible for all

746
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: the pictures of hawking that we have to think about now,

747
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 2: which don't necessarily implicate hawking and hawking. May have just

748
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 2: heard this is a science conference, because all of these

749
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: scientists are showing up at this island from this guy

750
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: who donates to science. It's two thousand and six. Epstein

751
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: hadn't been arrested yet. That said, for a lot of

752
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: these guys, there's a follow up conference in twenty ten,

753
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: after which point they knew who Epstein was. Kraus is

754
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: so close with Jeffrey that he becomes one of the

755
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: first guys to face public consequences for his relationship with Epstein.

756
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, Rebecca Watson attacked him for continuing to

757
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: associate with Epstein and justifying it by claiming science. Kraus

758
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: defended his friend and said, I don't feel lowered by

759
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: my association with Jeffrey. I feel raised by my friendship

760
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: with Jeffrey. And also he never raped any kids. Yeah,

761
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: it's a good call, Kraus.

762
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 3: Just pr just a pr G. You know, I guess

763
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: what else are you gonna say?

764
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah. And for that piece in the

765
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: trans News Network, Epstein clearly noticed Kraus's vigorous de and

766
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: rewarded him for his loyalty. He pledged one hundred thousand

767
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 2: dollars to Kraus's project at ASU between twenty fourteen twenty eighteen,

768
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: and Epstein's billionaire benefactor and alleged child rapist, Leon Black,

769
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: subsequently pledged a whopping two million in twenty fifteen. Kraus

770
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: claimed he raised a total of four million dollars for

771
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: the project in twenty eighteen, meaning that a large portion

772
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 2: of his funding came from billionaires accused of child rape.

773
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: And my only correction that would be that, like again,

774
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: Epstein was really a billionaire now, But this does goes

775
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: to show when I say that, like you can't just

776
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: look at what Epstein gives. You have to look at

777
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: like what Leon Black is giving because Epstein told him to.

778
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, it creates a yeah, like a like a

779
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: culture and some cover and just like a crowd to

780
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: hide yourself in.

781
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 2: Sure now. Kraus more recently had to step down from

782
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: Arizona State during the Me Too movement after he was

783
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: accused six separate times of sexual misbeaving work. I'm yeah,

784
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 2: he Lawrence Krauss. Everybody wow, he became and after he

785
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 2: gets in trouble. He becomes one of the first prompt

786
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: men who were brought low by me too to reach

787
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,959
Speaker 2: out to Jeffrey Epstein for advice. We'll talk a little

788
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: bit more about that later, but jeff goes so far.

789
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: He's not just given Kraus advice. He's helping him like

790
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: craft his response. Like the open letter that he writes

791
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: about the allegations, which Kraus denied, but now we know

792
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: because we have this information, Epstein was giving him like

793
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: notes on it. Nattie cast again continues. While he has

794
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: long denied many of the allegations from his time at ASU,

795
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: Krause admitted to it, even tried to justify gratuitous sexual

796
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: comments about trans women he made around coworkers. In one

797
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: later removed section of his retirement letter. He also helpfully

798
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: included a grade school sketch of a light bulb that

799
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 2: he drew in front of colleagues. Since Kraus's retirement from

800
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: academia and hopefully sketch art, Epstein continued to advise and

801
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: fund him as he pivoted to building an anti trans

802
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: podcast on his YouTube channel and accompanying substack, where he's

803
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: interviewed a large number of turfs and other anti transfigures,

804
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: including other Epstein associates like Richard Dawkins and for a

805
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: note that light bulb sketch Jeff Drew. I know this

806
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,959
Speaker 2: because of a fucking Dilbert book I read as a kid.

807
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 2: If you like, draw a light bulb in a certain

808
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 2: way and turn it upside down, it looks like a

809
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: woman who's bending over with her underpants on. That's what

810
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: Kraus is doing. One of our greatest minds. Truly a

811
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: master of physics, just a genius. All these men just

812
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: the that's they.

813
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: They are good at one thing probably or okay, at

814
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 3: one thing. Yeah, is the problem?

815
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: Most of them were or not? Is the problem?

816
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 4: Just hate them all.

817
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: I don't know how good Kraus was, but yeah, so

818
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: we've got Epstein funding a white nationalist YouTuber in twenty fifteen,

819
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: and then in twenty nineteen, one of his last actions

820
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 2: is helping to fund Kraus's anti trans propaganda. That's interesting, right,

821
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: and it gets worse. Epstein is also closely tied to

822
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: an evolutionary biologist named Robert Trivers. Now I had not

823
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 2: heard of this guy, but doctor F. Nichols wrote a

824
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: great piece on this for her website Queer Science Lab.

825
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: She started by just searching the Epstein files for the

826
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: word transsexual. Right now today, that is widely although I

827
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: have known some trans people who still use that term

828
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: for themselves, but it is why. It is an outdated

829
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: and offensive term as a general rule, that's like, you're

830
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: not you shouldn't be using that referring to if someone

831
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: wants to take that whatever, I'm not not for me

832
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: to speak about, right. But the reason why doctor Nichols

833
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: uses that term is because most of the men in

834
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: the Epstein files are older men. They're around Jeffrey's age,

835
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 2: and that term was even if you weren't trying to

836
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 2: be offensive, the term you would have used twenty or

837
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: thirty years ago.

838
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: Right.

839
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: That's why she's searching for it, because these guys use

840
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: outdated terms for things. You know that. I just needed

841
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: to explain that. So she looks into Jeffrey and his

842
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 2: friends talking about trans issues, and she points out something

843
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: that gets left out a lot, including in my earlier

844
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 2: coverage of Epstein, which is that and I should have

845
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 2: found this information, but I didn't because it was out

846
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: at this point in time. So I want to correct

847
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 2: that now. The first woman to publicly accuse Jeffrey Epstein

848
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 2: of abuse was a transgender Latina woman named Ava Cordero.

849
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: She sued Epstein in October of two thousand and seven,

850
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: claiming that he forced her into bizarre and unnatural sex

851
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: when she was sixteen years old. Per an article in

852
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: LGBTQ Nation Quote. In her lawsuit, Cordero alleged that in

853
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, Epstein lured her to his mansion undressed

854
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: and requested a massage. Cordero said she felt frightened but agreed,

855
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: at which point Epstein suddenly began violently touching her genitals,

856
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: pushing her head downward, and demanding oral sex. She alleged

857
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: Epstein had lured her to his mansion in nineteen ninety

858
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 2: nine when she was sixteen. Right, so again, I just

859
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: really need to emphasize that.

860
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 3: Right.

861
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: She agrees initially when he asks her to undress because

862
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: she's scared, and once he starts, he begins violently grabbing

863
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: her genitals and then grabs her head and forces her

864
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 2: to perform oral sex. It's really bad, like this is

865
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: a really child as bad as any of the tales

866
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: of the TSL here, but no one takes this seriously

867
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 2: because Cordero is a trans woman and her life and

868
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: night well transchild at the time of the abuse. But

869
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 2: she's nineteen when she anyway whatever, or older than that

870
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 2: when she makes it. Anyway, This is a trans woman

871
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: and that makes assholes consider her an unsympathetic victim. Another

872
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: thing that is used against her is that she's HIV positive. Right,

873
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: she had admitted that she'd been admitted to a psychiatric

874
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: hospital several times. She's has mental health issues in the past,

875
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 2: and she's admitted to illegal drug use in the past,

876
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 2: and all of this makes her a bad victim in

877
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: the eyes of shitty people. I want to emphasize she

878
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: is being judged here. Part of her credibility. Why she's

879
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 2: judged is not credible is that she's admitted to having

880
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 2: used drugs in the past. Epstein is perfectly happy to

881
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: use drugs. In fact, we have evidence of this. There's

882
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 2: a twenty thirteen email exchange between him and his fixer,

883
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 2: Leslie Groff where Groff is arranging for a friend of so.

884
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 2: Epstein has an apartment complex that he owns, right, and

885
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 2: he lets people stay there. Sometimes they're male friends of his.

886
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: They can crash there. Sometimes he lets people live there,

887
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: usually very young women live there for periods of time.

888
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: Right in twenty thirteen, one of these apartments, a woman

889
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: lives there and she asks Leslie Groff, Hey, my friend,

890
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 2: actor Will Forte is coming into town. Can he crash

891
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: with me for a few nights in this apartment Jeffrey

892
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: Epstein owns Now, I don't know the relationship between Jeffrey

893
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: and this woman. I don't know the age at which

894
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 2: she starts talking to Jeffrey. I think she's an adult

895
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 2: at this point from everything that I know. So there's

896
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: a lot that I don't understand here. But Epstein has

897
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 2: this apartment that he sends women to, and that he

898
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: sends men to, and that there's sub evidence he sends

899
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,959
Speaker 2: men to to have sex with young women, maybe women

900
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: that he's giving a free apartment to. It's a little

901
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: bit unclear. That's not what this is, right, Will Forte

902
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: is not a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. When Epstein is

903
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: asked if he can stay at the apartment, Epstein does

904
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: not appear to know the guy right now. Would will

905
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,399
Speaker 2: have been cool if he knew that he was staying

906
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: in an apartment Jeffrey Epstein owned. I don't know if he

907
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: would have been I don't know if he knew. Right

908
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: does this woman tell her friend Will Forte. By the way,

909
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: this apartment's owned by Jeffrey Epstein. You know this is

910
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 2: one of those because I'm bringing Will into it as

911
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 2: a result of something else. I want to make it

912
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: clear there's not evidence he did anything wrong, although maybe

913
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: it should be looked into a little bit right now

914
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: just to make sure, but there's not there's not evidence.

915
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 2: I want to make that really clear. Anyway. The reason

916
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 2: why this is relevant is because this woman asks, hey,

917
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: can Will Forte crash with me? And Leslie asks jeff hey,

918
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: is this okay? And Epstein responds yes, but make sure

919
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: there are no drugs or drink in the apartment, which

920
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: means that there's drugs there a lot of the time, right, right, right.

921
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: This isn't the only evidence that Jeffrey Epstein used drugs

922
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: or applied girls with drugs, right. It just makes it

923
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 2: very clear.

924
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: I guess that's a point in in Will Forte's favor,

925
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 3: as he's hiding.

926
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 2: That he has right that he had that Epstein wanted

927
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: to hide stuff from him, right, So again, there's not

928
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: evidence Will did anything wrong. But this is relevant because

929
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: when this case comes out and when she makes claims

930
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: against him, there are like websites put up right, like

931
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: social media sites claiming to be her social media sites

932
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: where she talks about illegal drug use, right the smear campaign.

933
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: Now she denies these are her social media accounts. And

934
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 2: we know Epstein hired people to fix his Wikipedia for him.

935
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: We know that he hired people to alter website, and

936
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: we know that he hired people to alter like Google

937
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 2: results so that it wouldn't be obvious that he was

938
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 2: a sex criminal. He had somebody removing the fact that

939
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: he was a convicted sex offender from his Wikipedia, he

940
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: had people altering Google results. Wouldn't have been weird for

941
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: him to have someone make a fake social media page

942
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: for this woman who has charged him, who is alleged

943
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 2: that he abused her, right, And I just really wanted

944
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: to emphasize how vile this is really Comprehensively, her case

945
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: is dismissed because it fell outside of the statute of limitations,

946
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: she waited more than five years, and the fact that

947
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 2: this all happens and that it like it's not not

948
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: only is this dismissed, which maybe they didn't have a

949
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 2: choice legally. I'm not enough of a law expert to

950
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: say if this is a good ruling or not. You know,

951
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 2: but statutes of limitation exist, U I mean good in

952
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 2: the is it illegally consistent ruling that they would have

953
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: applied to anybody. But what you do know here is

954
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: that the media treats this like a joke. These are

955
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: serious allegations that Jeffrey Epstein raped a child that come

956
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: out the year before he gets charged with molesting a

957
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: child and convicted, and it is not It is treated

958
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 2: like a joke forever up to the present day and

959
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 2: per an article in LGBTQ Nation, The New York Post's

960
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 2: October twenty third, two thousand and seven coverage included the

961
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: headline gender bend shocker, kinky sex suit gal is a

962
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: man Like, Yeah, this is a rape allegation by a

963
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: child or somebody was a child at the time. Right,

964
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 2: It's just it's it's file. It's just like so comprehensively evil. Anyway.

965
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 2: This is Epstein's first recorded interaction with a trans person,

966
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: but from this point forward, so there's obviously a period

967
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 2: at which he fetishizes trans people right, and that's deeply

968
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 2: tied in with his anti transactivism because that becomes an

969
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: increasing thing to him in the odds and one person

970
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: he expresses a lot of this too, is evolutionary biologist

971
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 2: Robert Trivers. Now. Trivers was famous for back in the

972
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: seventies creating what's called the theory of investment parenting. And

973
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: this theory suggests that parents invest in their kids to

974
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: ensure their own multi generational success. Thus, it's natural for

975
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 2: women to invest more in parenting because they invest in

976
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 2: or to create the child, and it's natural for men

977
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: to invest less in parenting because it's easy to come right.

978
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: That's what Nichols is saying, and that this is fine

979
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 2: and right and good. This theory has been discredited, but

980
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: as doctor Nichols noted in her article, it is still

981
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: widely cited. Travers started corresponding with Epstein in two thousand

982
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 2: and nine, again after Epstein's guilty plea per Nichols quote.

983
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 2: Epstein invited Trivers to his house in Florida to discuss

984
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 2: his work and paid Trivers's travel into comonations. Trivers, like

985
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: all researchers, needed money. Research is expensive salaries, materials, publishing fees,

986
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 2: and more. Over the years, Trivers frequented to Epstein's Florida home.

987
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: Triver's is unsure how we're when Epstein began funding his work,

988
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: but by twenty fifteen, Epstein bragged to Nom Chomsky that

989
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: he was Trivers's major funder. Concurrently, Triver's publicly justified Epstein's

990
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 2: pedophilia in no uncertain terms, and she chooses not to

991
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 2: reproduce that justification here. I think I will reproduce them

992
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: because it's important for knowing what a piece of shit

993
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 2: Trivers is. And in twenty fifteen Reuter's article, after a

994
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 2: lot more stuff about Epstein started coming out, several scientists

995
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: who had received donations from the Epstein Foundation were asked

996
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: why they kept taking his money and associating with him

997
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: after his conviction. Kraus said, I'd be a coward if

998
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: I abandoned Jeffrey over allegations I know nothing about. And

999
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 2: that's gross. But what Trivers says in this article is

1000
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: so much worse. I can't believe he said this to Reuter's.

1001
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: Did he get an easy deal? Did he buy himself

1002
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: a light sentence? Well? Yes, probably compared to what you

1003
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: or I would get but he did get locked up,

1004
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 2: Trivor said. Triver says he also said he believes girls

1005
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 2: mature earlier than in the past. By the time they're

1006
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: fourteen or fifteen, they're like grown women were sixty years ago.

1007
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: So I don't see these acts. Is so heinous?

1008
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, is this guy just like walking around still?

1009
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: Probably?

1010
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: I hope he's dead, but I think he probably is.

1011
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 3: Well, it's also just like like that like branch of

1012
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 3: like bigot science is like you just like find the

1013
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 3: trappings of evolutionary like psychology to like justify what you

1014
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 3: already want to. You know, you can sort of backfill

1015
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: anything if you want, ye, and you will get money.

1016
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 3: It's rewarded to be a bigot. It's cool, like your

1017
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 3: fucking racist pedophile whatever.

1018
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 2: So that next year, in twenty sixteen, Trivers thanked Epstein

1019
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: for sending him extra money and making him an advisor

1020
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: on The Guy. Oh Yeah good. He talked about his

1021
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 2: medical research and added that he was moving forward on

1022
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: theoretical work Epstein had asked him to pursue. We don't

1023
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 2: know what that was specifically, but Epstein's response to this was,

1024
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: I want to see you your piece on transgender in

1025
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 2: the bio world. Right, So that suggests he wanted Travers

1026
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 2: to write a piece about transgender people and actual and

1027
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: like biology, Like this is like a bioessentialist thing, right,

1028
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 2: That's what he wants doctor Travers to write, and that's

1029
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 2: kind of his his priority, right, is getting this guy

1030
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 2: to write about trans people rather than any of the

1031
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: other research that he's doing. Doctor Nichols continues. Two months later,

1032
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,760
Speaker 2: Trivors contacted Epstein again and communicated that he is getting

1033
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 2: to the end of transsexuality. Trivers goes on to pontificate

1034
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: about the benefits of fucking trans women, using the humanizing

1035
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: language to refer to transfilms like organism and the new morphs.

1036
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 2: To that end, Trivers asks Epstein for more money to

1037
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: finish his research on the proposed topics. So, but first off, Trivers,

1038
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 2: if you read his actual emails, he is a fetishist.

1039
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 2: He fetishizes trans people, and he also does not consider

1040
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 2: them number one to be the gender that they are. Right,

1041
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: he's a biological essentialist. But he also and I think

1042
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 2: this is the same with Epstein. They're happy to fetishize

1043
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: these people when these people have an identity and are

1044
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 2: trying to get treated as human beings. That makes him

1045
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 2: incredibly angry because they only exist for his sexual gratification.

1046
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 2: I think that's a big thing for both Epstein and

1047
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: Trivers here, and why they're both on the anti trans

1048
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: stuff right is they're personally offended at the struggle for

1049
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 2: like dignity and civil rights by trans people as a

1050
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 2: community because to them, they're not a community, they're a fetish.

1051
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: That's I think what's going on here. That's my interpretation

1052
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 2: based on my reading. In October of that year, twenty sixteen,

1053
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 2: Trivers held a talk in London titled and Evening on

1054
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 2: Evolutionary Biology, an Overview covering feminism, transgender sexuality, and on

1055
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 2: our Killings. He invited Epstein to the talk, and in

1056
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 2: an email where he laid out the details of the event,

1057
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 2: wrote wrote the title, so as far back as twenty sixteen,

1058
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 2: Epstein is trying and giving his money to support the

1059
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 2: creation of an internet wave of coverage critical to transidentity.

1060
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 2: Because Epstein's response is that basically, I think this will

1061
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: do a good job of getting in the news, like

1062
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: great work on the conference. Hopefully people write about it,

1063
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 2: you know, like he's really trying to get intellectuals to

1064
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: put out critical stuff about trans people that he can

1065
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 2: then get to go viral, and he talks about this

1066
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 2: directly in his emails with Trivers. In twenty eighteen, Epstein

1067
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 2: and Trivers again communicate about trans theories. Trivers uses more

1068
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 2: really bad language. He calls trans people novel phenotypes, and

1069
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 2: then he describes an experiment that he wants to do

1070
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 2: to kind of test some of his theories, which and

1071
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: this is how doctor Nichols describes it. He reiterates his

1072
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: attraction to trans women and explicitly erasist trans men, all

1073
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 2: while using his porn algorithms as evidence. Trivers ends the

1074
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 2: email by claiming that trans three year old's are receiving

1075
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 2: hormone treatments, a false anti trans scare monger. So again,

1076
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 2: this mix of fetishization and scare mongering is really interesting.

1077
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to include too much of the texts

1078
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 2: of these emails. They're gross enough that I don't really

1079
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,439
Speaker 2: want to read them in detail. But his Nichols notes,

1080
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: Epstein funds his anti trans work over his other research,

1081
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: which is often also racist. For example, Trivors wanted to

1082
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: find an evolutionary reason for why basically black people do

1083
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 2: on our killings and Middle Eastern like Arab people do

1084
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 2: want our killings, when the reality is that like on,

1085
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 2: our killings are everywhere. If a man gets angry that

1086
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 2: his wife slept with someone else or doesn't respect him

1087
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: enough and murders her, which happens all of the time

1088
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 2: in the US, that right, there's an honor killer, my friend. Yeah,

1089
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: he's angry because a woman made him in there any

1090
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 2: murderer anyway. What's interesting, though, is that above all this stuff,

1091
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,280
Speaker 2: above even the racial stuff, Epstein wants Trigvor's writing anti

1092
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: trans propaganda. Here's a March twenty nineteen email where Epstein

1093
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: lays out directly that he considers the anti trans stuff

1094
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: Trivers's main priority. I can call you today if you

1095
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: like My recollection is that we sat together. I thought

1096
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 2: that you might want to focus on transgender biology. People

1097
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 2: would be interested, and I would fund. I am a

1098
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 2: true believer in your talents.

1099
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah right, I mean you know to the extent that

1100
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 3: Epstein had a talent. It was like this, like even

1101
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 3: if it's not like people will be interested, it's that like, yeah,

1102
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: the fucking like powerbrokers and information people down to like

1103
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 3: the New York Times and like you know, quote unquote

1104
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 3: liberals or whatever will also buy the shit hook line

1105
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 3: and sinker right well, or at least by the debate,

1106
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 3: perpetuate the debate.

1107
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 2: That's right, And it's the debate he wants to push

1108
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: out there first, right, because it starts with the debate.

1109
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: It starts with Okay, let's have him have this talk

1110
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 2: and then see if we can get the guardian whoever

1111
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: to report on the fact that this biologist is talking

1112
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 2: about you know, this is what he said about trans people.

1113
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 2: People are starting to question, you know, some of the

1114
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: things that the community is putting out right. That's he's

1115
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 2: very specific about, Like, I want this to go viral,

1116
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: I want this to get news coverage, right, he expresses.

1117
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: And when he says in that last email that people

1118
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 2: will be interested about your anti trans research, he's expressing

1119
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 2: confidence that he can brute force the public to care

1120
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 2: about Trivers's research. Right. That's what he's talking about, is

1121
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 2: forcing anti trans talking points into the public sphere. I

1122
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 2: could go on about the other people that may have

1123
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 2: had played a role in this. Epstein is very close

1124
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: to the Sulzberger family who own The New York Times,

1125
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 2: who publish a lot of anti trans bullshit. Epstein knew

1126
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: them as far back as the seventies. In one email chain,

1127
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: he jokes with Michael Wolfe about the fact that former

1128
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 2: publisher Arthur Sulzberger had a sex scandal that could have

1129
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 2: ruined him before he retired. Sulzberger's son now runs The

1130
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 2: New York Times. And you know, obviously I'm not saying

1131
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: that Epstein convinced the New York Times to run a

1132
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 2: bunch of anti trans propaganda, but it's interesting that Epstein

1133
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 2: is really pushing that and his friends with the people

1134
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 2: behind the Times and The Atlantic.

1135
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 3: But that is also the thing. It's like he doesn't

1136
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 3: have to that is sort of like the the both

1137
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 3: the useful idiocy of places like the New York Times

1138
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 3: of the Atlantic and like just that I guess class

1139
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 3: of people, which is like he doesn't have to dictate

1140
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 3: how you should do this. He knows that they are

1141
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 3: primed to support these ideas or again, support the debate.

1142
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 2: In this class of people, which includes basically everyone who's

1143
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: ever written a pop science book that's been successful, and

1144
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 2: includes a number of actual scientists, most of the billionaires,

1145
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 2: and a whole lot of like hereditary newspaper people, right

1146
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 2: people who get jobs at the Times of the Atlantic

1147
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: or The New Yorker because of who their dad or

1148
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 2: mom was. Right, a lot of these all these people

1149
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: are desperate money from rich assholes like Jeffrey Epstein and

1150
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: are willing, like especially the writers and the academics, to

1151
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 2: kind of say anything if there's money in it. They

1152
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: they all of these fucking guys like the the fucking

1153
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 2: Berry Weis's crew or whatever talk about how they're like

1154
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: truth tellers, and this is the same as like the

1155
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 2: honestly the New York Times editorial board talk about how

1156
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: they care about the truth and good and get information

1157
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 2: to people. They give a shit about money and having

1158
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 2: rich friends and access right and they're so desperate for

1159
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: it that the instant someone like Jeffrey Epstein starts saying,

1160
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,479
Speaker 2: you know what I found about trans people, they'll start

1161
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 2: green lighting articles because that's what the public wants to hear.

1162
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 3: It's so it's shocking that the truth tellers just all

1163
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: in their like vast search for truth just happen to

1164
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 3: coalesce around the opinions of the right wing power structure.

1165
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 2: That it's interesting also that like the most dangerous thing

1166
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 2: to suggest isn't maybe all these assholes with all of

1167
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 2: the money shouldn't have it. It's maybe these people with

1168
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 2: no money at all are bad and dangerous.

1169
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1170
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: Maybe the poorest and most depressed group of people that

1171
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: I can think of pretty much here are yeah, secretly.

1172
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 3: In charge intellectual kings and Queen is good stuff.

1173
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Ultimately the result of Epstein's investment in Trivers didn't

1174
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: reach fruition until two months before his death, and twenty

1175
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 2: twenty Trivers published his Universal Theory of gender identity, which

1176
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: argued that the ratio of one's digit lengths like fingers,

1177
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: revealed how much testosterone they received as a fetus, and

1178
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 2: thus predicted gender identity and then thus proved gender absolutism basically,

1179
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 2: and he basically said that, like, by the way someone's

1180
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 2: fingers look, I can tell you if they're transgender.

1181
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 3: This is wrong.

1182
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 2: His work has been disproven, but it cited regularly, including

1183
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 2: in a twenty twenty two paper from an anti trans

1184
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 2: group called Sex Matters for doctor Nichols. The group cites

1185
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 2: digit ratios and denying the autonomy of trans adolescents. And

1186
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: this next bit that she writes is very important to

1187
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 2: recap Epstein funds Triver's research and suggests specific topics of study.

1188
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 2: Triver's becomes obsessed with trans women as sexual objects and

1189
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 2: see the universal biological explanation of gender identity. He asks

1190
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 2: for more money and publishes his findings. Ultimately, Triver's theory

1191
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 2: is easily falsifiable. Despite this, hate groups pick up on

1192
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: the pseudoscience and use it as a justification for their

1193
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 2: regressive policies. That is, in a nutshell, the Jeffrey Epstein story.

1194
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 3: It is telling that like the best, most funded, absolutely

1195
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 3: cutting edge of right wing thought is basically the same

1196
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 3: as on the playground when they said if your hand

1197
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 3: is bigger than your face, your ex you getta yeah

1198
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 3: whatever follows like that is literally the best these people

1199
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 3: can do. And there it is.

1200
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. I uh, let's you know, Andrew, here's some ads.

1201
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 5: I don't have a better pivot right now, there's no

1202
01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 5: pivot and we're back.

1203
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 2: There's a lot that I feel bad about not including

1204
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 2: in these episodes that I want to. We're not talking

1205
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 2: about Howard Littnik, right, like the fucking cot Trump's Commerce secretary,

1206
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 2: who is also the custodian of like the tether reserves

1207
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 2: and thus very tied to fucking and tied to Jeffrey Epstein. Right,

1208
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 2: we're not talking about a lot of stuff that is

1209
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 2: really important because there's just too much to talk about

1210
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 2: that we already have on these episodes. But I would

1211
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 2: feel bad if I didn't end by coming back to

1212
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 2: the bromance between Jeffrey Epstein and Steve Bannon right now.

1213
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 2: As I said earlier, both are in each other's orbit

1214
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 2: for years before they got connected officially in twenty seventeen

1215
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 2: by Michael wool Through. At least that was, you know,

1216
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 2: the best estimate that I found previously, but there is

1217
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 2: evidence that it goes back earlier. And on Sunday, December

1218
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 2: eighteenth of twenty sixteen, Epstein emails Brock Pierce asking if

1219
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 2: he'd had a chance to meet with Bannon. Right, Epstein's asking, Hey,

1220
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 2: did you meet with Bannon yet? And Brock says yes,

1221
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 2: and Epstein says, Bannon seems like the pretty smart puppet master.

1222
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 2: Brock vouches for Bannon and says like, yeah, I've relied

1223
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 2: on him for years. And it's after this point that

1224
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: Steve and Jeffrey talking awful lot, So it may have

1225
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: been that, you know, in twenty seventeen, they start talking

1226
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 2: after you know, this conversation December of twenty sixteen, but

1227
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 2: also the fact that Epstein's asking Brock if he'd had

1228
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 2: a chance to meet with Bannon suggests that he's aware

1229
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 2: of Bannon and is interested in what he's doing, and saying,

1230
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 2: you know, maybe because they knew each other, or maybe

1231
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 2: because they were kind of socially distant, but still someone

1232
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 2: I don't exactly know, right, but it's telling that he's like,

1233
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: Bannon seems like a pretty good puppet master. In twenty sixteen,

1234
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 2: here's Politico's summary of their relationship. The two texted frequently

1235
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 2: about everything from the TV show Chernoble and a guessing

1236
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 2: game over who pinned the twenty eighteen anonymous New York

1237
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 2: Times op ed to their efforts to influence international geopolitics,

1238
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 2: including shaping Europe's governing coalitions, ramping up pressure on China,

1239
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 2: and forging business ties in the Middle East. At one point,

1240
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 2: took credit for convincing Trump in twenty eighteen to impose

1241
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: massive tariffs on China, gabbed with Epstein about his we

1242
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: Build the Wall endeavor that would later end in a

1243
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 2: federal indictment and presidential pardon, and gossiped about the latest

1244
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 2: developments in Special Councer Robert Mueller's investigation, in which Bannon

1245
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 2: was a subject. They're talking about everything, especially their crimes.

1246
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 4: Don't forget that HBO limited run show.

1247
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 3: I mean it is like largely an exercise and guilt

1248
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 3: by association, but it is like the most damning.

1249
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not damn it.

1250
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 3: It's just like the evidence. It's like the pattern continues

1251
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 3: to build and it is like, you know, again, this

1252
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 3: goes back to My biggest thing has been, like, the

1253
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 3: fuck was Trump thinking with release the Epstein files? Really? Like,

1254
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 3: what do you hope to accomplish?

1255
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 2: Hey, I don't think he had much choice. I don't

1256
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 2: think he's at his full powers, you know. And unfortunately,

1257
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 2: when you get your whole base obsessed with the idea

1258
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 2: that he's explain everything, kind of have to.

1259
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 3: But why start, why start on this? You knew it

1260
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 3: was in this shit man arrogance.

1261
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 2: You know, it was large. I think it was a

1262
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 2: lot of other people, like fucking Trump used it. But

1263
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 2: Trump wasn't the Trump left to his own devices, he

1264
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't have had the idea to hang Epstein on these

1265
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 2: guys because he talks about Clinton now as a friend right.

1266
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 3: So.

1267
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 2: In their private correspondence, Epstein and Bannon are very open

1268
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 2: about their disdain for Donald Trump. Epstein calls him a grifter,

1269
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,919
Speaker 2: and Bannon repeatedly uses the term stable genius to mock

1270
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 2: his former boss. The two got along because they both

1271
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 2: had a vested interest in destroying the establishment as it existed.

1272
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 2: Bannon gave Epstein advice on rehabilitating his image after his arrest,

1273
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 2: even as Epstein himself acted as a free advice giver

1274
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 2: to all the famous men impacted by me too. The

1275
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 2: two men were very direct about their plans to subvert democracy.

1276
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 2: In July of twenty eighteen, they talked about hiring hackers

1277
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 2: or otherwise working to get them on our side. Epstein

1278
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 2: included links to the website for hacking convention def con

1279
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 2: as he pondered how they might influence these people. And

1280
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,479
Speaker 2: it's very clear for these emails neither of these guys

1281
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 2: know much about hacking, although one reveal from the Epstein

1282
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 2: files is that at least per Epstein's claims. In the files,

1283
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 2: Epstein claims Peter Teel was funding Nazi hacker Weave for years,

1284
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 2: which I do believe so Bannon asks, hey, do you

1285
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 2: know any of these guys, and Epstein responds, some of

1286
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 2: the founders, organizers. They are the most dangerous force in

1287
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 2: today's society by far. Bioweapons pale due to blowback nuclear

1288
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 2: a sixty year old technology. Whether sixty year old tech

1289
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 2: frightens you. Space Frontier can't operate without software, so basically

1290
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 2: saying like hackers are scarier than nukes or bioweapons, which

1291
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 2: is also a dumb thing to say. Cool Bannon asks

1292
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 2: if he thinks these kind of people can be bought,

1293
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 2: and Epstein says yes, and he excitedly explains, you can

1294
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 2: buy hacks, you can buy zero day exploits, right, you

1295
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 2: see that in the email on here too. And he

1296
01:07:57,800 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 2: says in other emails that he's wrestling with the task

1297
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 2: of getting hackers who would work for Bannon and could

1298
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 2: maybe find a zero data target crypto wallets or voting booths. Right, yeah, now,

1299
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 2: there's no evidence they did this, certainly, and Epstein is

1300
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 2: going to have other concerns very soon after these emails

1301
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,560
Speaker 2: get sent. This may have just been another example of himbloviating,

1302
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 2: but it shows how he and Bannon are thinking, right,

1303
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 2: and that's meaningful. At least there's more. At least they're dumb.

1304
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 3: And if people still say script kitty, I can't believe,

1305
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 3: you know, script kitty.

1306
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:35,440
Speaker 2: Oh script. I don't think it's super relevant these days.

1307
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 3: Not anymore. That's Epstein, though I could buy buy an exploit,

1308
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 3: sure man, Carly.

1309
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 2: Ray Epstein, Yeah, good stuff, He's I don't know if

1310
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 2: this is what I've got. There's an interview between him

1311
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 2: and Bannon, but like Bannon was trying to make a

1312
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: documentary on his friend. That's really telling that. I may

1313
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 2: break down later for you guys, but I think this

1314
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:03,759
Speaker 2: is enough for now. I'm tired, begs Robert. I'm tapping

1315
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 2: out personally. Yeah, from this, Oh my god.

1316
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 3: But I think there's also like the trove is endless.

1317
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,759
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. The trove is endless, endless content.

1318
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 4: We could do many more parts, and we might end

1319
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 4: up having to.

1320
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 2: But you know, I'd like maybe Apstein really just sacrificed

1321
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 2: himself for the global content minds, you know, be ensure

1322
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 2: that there were plenty of podcasts and YouTube videos.

1323
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 3: Think about it.

1324
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:28,759
Speaker 4: I'd love to be done.

1325
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 3: It hurts. Yeah, this was dayingful.

1326
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'm done. Goodbye?

1327
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 3: Are we done, done, done, done, yeah okay.

1328
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 4: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1329
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 4: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1330
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 4: Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1331
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video

1332
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 4: episodes that Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix,

1333
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 4: dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Remind me of Flix. You

1334
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 4: don't miss an episode. For clips and our older episode catalog,

1335
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:07,320
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1336
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 4: slash at Behind the Bastards. We love about forty percent

1337
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 4: of you, statistically speaking,