1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Guess what, Mango? What's that? Will? So, have you seen 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: the Last Jedi yet? I have. I was going to 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: ask you a question about it, but we have to 4 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: keep this spoiler free here, so I'm honestly kind of 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: scared to say anything. Uh do you want to say 6 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: it in pick laden? No? No, I'm just I'm too nervous. 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: But I will say this. So it seems fair to 8 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: say that light speed plays a pretty big role in 9 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: the Star Wars films. That's what you wanted to say. 10 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: I mean, it's true, but well, you know, as I 11 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: sat there in the theater, my mind started wandering again. 12 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: You know, not because it isn't a great movie. I 13 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: really liked it, but I started thinking again about the 14 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: idea of traveling at or beyond light speed. And it's 15 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: one of the age old questions, you know, will anything 16 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: ever travel beyond light speed? Well it's a good thing. 17 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: We have a brilliant author here today is to answer 18 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: some of the biggest questions about the universe, and only 19 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: one of them is about Star Wars. Yeah, but the 20 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: book that he's written is called We Have No Idea. 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: But you're right, we should give him a shot anyway. 22 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: So let's dive in m he their podcast listeners, Welcome 23 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: I'm joined by my good friend man guest Tic and 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: the man on the other side of the soundproof glass 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: sporting an impressive coral saken hair part. That's our friend 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: and producer Tristan McNeil, who knew his hair could even 28 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: part like that. So that's not what we're here to 29 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: talk about, or is it maybe another episode? I don't 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: think it's anyway. So I know you and I have 31 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: recently been talking about the fact that over the past 32 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: few years there have been all these big signs events 33 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: that have just gotten so much attention and people have 34 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: gotten really excited about. We had the discovery of the 35 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: Higgs boson a few years ago. We had that big 36 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,639 Speaker 1: eclipse that you and I and our families all traveled 37 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: out to see. There was um quantum teleportation and all 38 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: this x excitement and confusion surrounding it, and so much more. 39 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: It's fun with events like these capture the world's attention. 40 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: But but sometimes these events and the science around them 41 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: can be very difficult to communicate. But today we've got 42 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: to truly give the communicator and one of the co 43 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: authors of a book called We Have No Idea Daniel Whites, 44 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: and welcome to part Time Genius. Hello, and thank you 45 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: very much for having me on now. Daniel, this is 46 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: a really interesting partnership for this book. You know, you're 47 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: a particle physicist that you see Irvine doing a lot 48 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: of your research over it cern and and you've partnered 49 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: with a terrific cartoonist and Jorge cham And It's been 50 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: a lot of fun getting to know you guys over 51 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: the past couple of months. Now. Jorge also has a 52 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: PhD and robotics. So I have to ask, how did 53 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: you guys meet and then decide to take on a 54 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: project like We Have No Idea? Well, we met on 55 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: Tinder first. Oh good, it's a great way to get going, 56 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, like most modern couples that we did meet 57 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: on the internet. It was maybe ten years ago now, 58 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: and I was thinking about other ways we could communicate 59 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: physics to the general public because I felt like there's 60 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: a lot of exciting questions we're asking with physics, but 61 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: we're not always doing a great job of expressing that 62 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: excitement and the basic ideas to the general public. And 63 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: I thought there was an opening there to communicate some 64 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: of the stuff using cartoons. Actually, I saw a really 65 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: awesome technical comic put up by Google when they put 66 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: out their latest browser, the Chrome Browser, and Scott McCloud 67 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: made a technical comic about the Chrome browser, and like, 68 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: if you're not into writing browsers, you might not be 69 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: into reading comics about browsers. Because they had a great 70 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: job of making this seem interesting, and I thought, wow, 71 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: if they can make browser development sound fun, and maybe 72 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: cartoons are a good way to show other things like physics. 73 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: But I don't have any artistic skills myself, and so 74 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't draw these cartoons myself. Um, but of course 75 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: I was aware of Jorge and his amazing work PhD comics. 76 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: You know, he's some think of an Internet celebrity. In academia. 77 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: Everybody knows him, and his comics are really captured the 78 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: restoration of research and academic life. Anyway, my wife suggested 79 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: she's also an academic and she's a big fan of 80 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: because she said, why don't you email or him and 81 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: asked him to do it, And I thought, yeah, right, 82 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: that's just like emailing Brad Pitt and asking about the 83 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: movie that's that's pretty awesome. And the project that resulted 84 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: from that a few years later, obviously is is we 85 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: have no idea, So can you tell us a little 86 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: bit about the the idea behind this book. Yeah. I 87 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: thought that there's a lot of great science communication that's happening, 88 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: but most of it was focused on what we do 89 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: know about the universe, all the amazing things that science 90 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: has learned, and it's important to show people what we 91 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: figured out. But I thought something was missing that. I 92 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: felt like people had a misunderstanding of how much we 93 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: knew about the universe. So we thought, let's instead write 94 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: a book showing people all the huge but very basic 95 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: open questions to the universe, really simple stuff that we 96 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: haven't yet figured out, stuff like how big is the universe? 97 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: And how did it start? And how will it end? 98 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: I thought there must be an appetite for people who 99 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: are really interested in this basic stuff and excited to 100 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: learn that we haven't yet figured it out. Because to me, 101 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: ignorance is an opportunity. It's a possibility of things you 102 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: could discover in the future. And when I was a kid, 103 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: I was always excited about that possibility of exploring the unknown. 104 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: And figuring out something new, discovering that the world was 105 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: different from the way we thought it might be and 106 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: turned out to be completely uh counterintuitive, like the discoveries 107 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: of quantum mechanics and relativity. I wanted to give people 108 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: the sense that such discoveries discoveries, that that basic scale 109 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: might still be ahead of us, that there are still 110 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: really big, basic questions that we haven't answered. So that 111 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: was the idea behind writing this book. And do you 112 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: tell us just a little bit about you know, I 113 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: know you're a particle physicist, that's certain, but what does 114 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: that mean exactly? And what are you doing in the lab? 115 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: So it's certain we collide protons together. We take the 116 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: protons and speed them up to nearly the speed of light, 117 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: and then the particles inside the protons collide and turn 118 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 1: into little balls of energy. Temporarily, they lose their form 119 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: of matter and turn into pure energy. And then that 120 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: energy has this amazing feature which it can turn into 121 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: any kind of particle in the universe as long as 122 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: there's enough energy budget there. So if you've poured enough 123 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: energy into your collisions, you can make any kind of 124 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: particle there is, which means you can discover new kinds 125 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: of matter even if you didn't know it existed. So 126 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: that's sort of awesome. It's a it's a way to 127 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: explore the universe. And that's the thing that got me 128 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: excited about particle physics is exploring what the universe has 129 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: made out of How is it work at its smallest levels, 130 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: what is the organizational principle for this whole ridiculous, beautiful 131 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: universe we find ourselves in. And the fascinating thing about 132 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: that is that it used to be the particle physics, 133 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: which looks at the very very small told disconnected from cosmology, 134 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: which looks at like the very big history of the 135 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: universe the future of the universe. These days, these two 136 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: fields have kind of converged because we're asking a lot 137 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: of similar questions. Like one of the big questions and 138 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: cosmology is what is all the dark matter? Right? Where 139 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: is all this missing invisible matter in the universe. Well, 140 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: it's certain what we're trying to do is make dark matter. 141 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: We're trying to collide those particles together to make a 142 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: new kind of matter, and we might produce dark matter 143 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: in the laboratory, giving this insight into what's happening at 144 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: the very very big scale. I love that there's so 145 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: many fascinating things in that statement and also so many 146 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: questions I have coming out of it. And I also 147 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: just love that like it starts with such a simple idea, 148 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: like the joy of crashing things together and creating all 149 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: these new things that it's stunning. But um, I know, 150 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: Will general crushing things together is a good way to 151 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: start the scientific experiment. Well. Will was asking at the 152 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: beginning of the f So it about the last Jedi. 153 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: You don't want to have said anyone with spoilers, but 154 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: he talked about how the speed of light does come 155 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: up in it, and is it possible or will it 156 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: be possible for anything to travel faster than light speed? 157 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: So I just saw that movie and I was thinking 158 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: about the same stuff when I was watching it. I 159 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: thought they did it without spoilers. I thought they did 160 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 1: a pretty good job of bringing some real physics into 161 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: that situation. Um. But your question was will we ever 162 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: travel faster than the speed of light? Um? Of all 163 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: the things we don't know about the universe, this is 164 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: one we're pretty sure we know that nothing can move 165 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: through space faster than the speed of light. Now, I 166 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: didn't answer your question directly, I changed it a little 167 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: bit so I could be more more definitive. That is, 168 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: nothing can move through space faster than the speed of light, 169 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: so an object flying through space can't ever go faster 170 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: than lighthood. However, that's a really important copy moving through 171 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: space because recently we discovered in the last few decades 172 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: that space is a weird thing. Space can do things 173 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: that we didn't understand. If you think space is just 174 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: like the emptiness in the universe, the backdrop on which 175 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: everything happens, and then you need to get caught up 176 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: with some modern physics, because space does really weird things 177 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: like thend and expand and ripple. So if your goal 178 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: is not necessarily to move faster than light through space, 179 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: but just to get somewhere fast, like you want to 180 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: go from you know, your rebel base to wherever you 181 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: need to go, and you want to not spend a 182 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: million years getting there, then instead of moving through space 183 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: fast from the speed of light, you might want to 184 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: just compress space itself. Right, so you can bring these 185 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: two locations, which ostensibly are very very far apart, if 186 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: you can bring them closer together by by shrinking space, 187 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: by compressing space, then you can get there rapidly without 188 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: going faster than the speed of light. And that's the 189 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: actual idea behind developing actual work drives. So while you 190 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: can't move through space faster than the speed of light, 191 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: we might actually technically be able to eventually construct warp 192 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: drives that can get us to distant places faster than 193 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: light traveling through normal space. That's just it's as simple 194 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: as that. Really, that's all there is to it. I 195 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: assume that we're pretty close to this whole space compression thing, 196 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: like with the next five to ten years, we should 197 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: be able to do this. Is that right, Daniel? I 198 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: would not invest in those companies, but you know there's 199 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: a fascinating transition there, right. Anytime, if something is just 200 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: totally impossible, it's totally impossible. But now we've moved warp 201 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: drives from totally impossible to completely impractical and very very 202 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: very difficult, which means, yeah, in ten years it will 203 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: probably just be an app on your iPhone, right because 204 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: now we just handed it from physicists to engineers, and 205 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: in current calculations, you know, the energy to run a 206 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: warp drive, even go to like Alpha Centauri would require 207 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: more energy than is contained in like the planet Jube, 208 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: all the massive planet Jupiter. Okay, so vast incredible quantities 209 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: of energy we can't even imagine. However, you know, it's 210 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: it's it's just become an efficiency problem. Now somebody can 211 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: build a better one and build a more effective one. 212 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: Right And of course, for your listeners, nobody's actually constructed 213 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: any sort of functioning warp drive. But theoretically it's not 214 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 1: impossible to compress space to travel places faster than light 215 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: could um. And that's what I liked about in that movie. 216 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: You know, they don't just go places instantly in the 217 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: last They don't just disappear from one place and appear 218 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: somewhere else. They have to get there. And even though 219 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: they're moving through hyperspace, right, there's still a speed they're 220 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: moving through hyperspace and a maximum this limitation there. And 221 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: so that's where the physics comes in, right, is in 222 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: providing plot points and the limitations. Well, I have a 223 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: follow up question to that in terms of headlines from 224 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: earlier this year that dealt with traveling through space, and 225 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about that. But before we 226 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: do that, let's take a quick break. Welcome back to 227 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Part time Genius we're talking to Daniel Whites, and one 228 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: of the co authors of We Have No Idea, this 229 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: awesome book that talks about all of the things in 230 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: the universe, not necessarily that we do know, but the 231 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: many big questions that we don't know. And we're putting 232 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: Daniel on the spot today and asking him to answer 233 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: every single big question about the universe that seems reasonable 234 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: to me. Think, So what do you think? So? Yeah? So, 235 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: So before the break, I mentioned that I had another 236 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: question that related to headlines that we saw everywhere earlier 237 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: this year. There was a headline that said, first object 238 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: teleported from Earth, and I have to be honest, Daniel, 239 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: I struggled with the way the media was covering this 240 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: event that happened, this quantum teleportation, and I wanted to 241 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: see if you could talk to us a little bit 242 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: about that and does it relate to what we were 243 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: talking about earlier, this idea of you know, being able 244 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: to travel through space at faster than the speed of light. 245 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: Can you just talk to us a little bit about 246 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: this event and and how the media may have struggled 247 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: a little bit to communicate what actually happened in that experiment. Yeah, 248 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: I read those headlines, and I was pretty excited object 249 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: teleported into space. I thought, Wow, we're gonna be beaming 250 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: up to space stations in the next few years. Right, 251 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 1: But you're right, the media totally failed to invade that 252 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: accurately because no object was teleported into space. Um. Instead, 253 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: information was sent into space. And that's much less exciting 254 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: because it's essentially just beaming a message. Right. So you can, 255 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: we know already how to send information from one place 256 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: to another. We have lots of techniques for that radio 257 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: laser or some of these things moving the speed of light. Right. Um, 258 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: this was more interesting because it's quantum teleportation. Right. That's 259 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: a process by which quantum information like the state of 260 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: an atom or a photon, can be transmitted exactly from 261 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: one location to another. Right. And it involves like entangling 262 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: particles and using their quantum relationships to send that information. 263 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: So it's a new way to send information. But it's 264 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: not teleportation, right. It's not like your concept where something 265 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: disappears and is reappeared somewhere else, resembled there um. And 266 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: it's also does not move faster than the speed of light. 267 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: A lot of people think quantum entanglement is a way 268 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: around uh sending information is a way around the maximum 269 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: speedling for information. Unfortunately it's not. So this headline describes them, 270 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: which would have been exciting if it was accurate, but 271 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: instead it was a cool technical achievement. They had transmitted 272 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: information using this new quantum technique further than anybody ever had, 273 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: and they sent it out into space, which nobody had 274 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: done before. But it doesn't break the speed limited the universe. 275 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: It's still limited to the speed of light, and it 276 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: doesn't actually send anything anywhere than information. So it's sort 277 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: of deflating, and I think it gets to a larger 278 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: point of how this stuff happens, Like how do you 279 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: do an interesting experiment and then some journalists writes it 280 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: up as if it's something different, as if it's something 281 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: much more dramatic. You know. There's another example of that, 282 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: just a couple of days ago, when the Pentagon released 283 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: all of its footage from this UFO program, and of 284 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: course they saw nothing there to indicate the presence of 285 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: aliens on Earth. But I've been watching the news and 286 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: it's been everywhere. All this stuff has been covered as 287 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: if we're now just discovered that the that the Pentagon 288 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: has been talking to aliens and the headlines headlines or 289 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: things like summary of human encounters with um, you know, 290 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: a summary of human and counters of a third kind, 291 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: and it's all totally misleading click base. But I think 292 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: that's one of the problems with science journalism these days, 293 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: is that in the crowded media community to have to 294 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: sort of scream for attention by touting even modest research 295 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: achievements as incredible events in human history. So unfortunately, nothing 296 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: was teleported into space. Otherwise I would be in line 297 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: because I'd like to get up there. I do wish 298 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: we had talked to you about the whole alien thing, 299 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: because we're we're actually recording this from a bunker right now, 300 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: so it would have been useful information. Yeah, yeah, I 301 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: wish you had quantum teleported that information to us before 302 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: a bunker. I would expect you guys to be on 303 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: a mountaintop with flags and come talk to us actually 304 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: on the quantum teleportation before we move on to another topic. 305 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it is one of those things, like you said, 306 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: should have been a celebrated achievement because it is something 307 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: that had been done in a way that had never 308 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: been done before, and at that distance can you talk 309 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: to us a little bit about what the implications are 310 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: if we are speaking of out it accurately, of what 311 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: this could mean for us. Well, it's an improved way 312 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: to send information. So quantum teleportation is just a copying 313 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: of quantum information like the electron spin or photon state 314 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: um that can be transmitted in principle exactly from one 315 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: location to another. And the cool thing about that is 316 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: just sending information without noise over that information loss right, 317 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: And of course in a an actual practically built system 318 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: there is always information loss because you can't isolate these 319 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: particles from their environment. But the hope is if we 320 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: perfect this kind of technology, you could send information with 321 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: less noise, with less information loss over longer distances. So 322 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: it's always good to have several technologies being developed in 323 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: order to send information. So this is another one that 324 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: could could in principle in the future give us information 325 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: transmission with less power and less less noise and less 326 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: data loss. So, Daniel, I know we've chat a little 327 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: bit about dark matter in the in the past, and 328 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 1: I just thought that conversation was so fascinating, But I 329 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: want you to share some of that with our listeners, 330 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: and it's not just something that's out there, but it's 331 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: actually something that's all around us. Right. Can you talk 332 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: a little bit about that. Yeah, this is one of 333 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 1: my favorite things about physics is when it reveals to 334 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: us that the world we thought we lived in is 335 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: actually totally different if you look at it using a 336 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: new tool or a new perspective. And that's what we've 337 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: discovered with dark matter. We discovered that most of the 338 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: universe is not the kind of matter that you're familiar with, 339 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: the kind of matter that makes up the chair you're 340 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: sitting on, the air you're breathing, or the coffee you're sipping, 341 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: or stars or gases or planets or dust. That most 342 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: of the universe, the matter in the universe is something else, 343 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: something invisible, this thing called dark matter. And most people, 344 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: if they hear about dark matter, they think, oh, maybe 345 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: that's some weird kind of matter out there in space. 346 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: But the thing about dark matter is that it's it 347 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: has gravity, It attracts everything with mass to it, and 348 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: it clusters it a lessons together, indeed, into these big blobs. 349 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: And those big blobs line up perfectly with where normal 350 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: matter is, like galaxies and stars and gas and dust. 351 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: Most of the dark matter and universe is distributed where 352 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: the normal matter is because they attract each other gravitationally. 353 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: And so what that means is that very likely we 354 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: are sitting in a soup of dark matter. Like can 355 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: you imagine all the air in the room around you, Right, 356 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: that's the matter that we understand, but it's invisible, and 357 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: you're cool with being surrounded by invisible matter most of 358 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: the time. But you didn't realize is that there's also 359 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: five times as much matter in the form of dark 360 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: matter that you weren't even aware of, and it's here 361 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: with us. You hold out your hands and you close 362 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: them together. You're enclosing some dark matter. You're holding dark 363 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: matter in your hands. Now, you can't interact with dark 364 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: matter and call it dark, but really it should be 365 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: called invisible or in transible, intransible. What's the word for 366 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: something you can't touch. It should be called an untouched 367 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: What matter sounds right? Unjudgable matter because you pass right 368 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: through it, right, You can't feel it and it can't 369 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: feel you. So, um, it's everywhere all around us. And 370 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: I think most people don't realize that. Every day when 371 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: they go to school or go to work, or get 372 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: in the car whatever they're moving through this invisible ocean 373 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: of dark matter. Yeah, that's unbelievable to think about. So 374 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: how do we know that it's there? Or how did 375 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: astro physicists figure out that dark matter was was out there. 376 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: It's a great story how dark matter was discovered. It's 377 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: sort of a classic science story where somebody was just 378 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: dotting the eyes and crossing the teas and saying, well, 379 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: I think we understand how this works. Let's just make 380 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: sure and do some double checks. And then those double 381 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: checks revealed that something was very, very wrong with our 382 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: understanding of the universe. So the double check was looking 383 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: at how galaxies rotate. Um. You know, galaxies are these 384 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: big swarms of stars and galaxies are spinning. Now, if 385 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: you imagine the galaxy spinning, you think of it like 386 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: a merry go round. Or you might wonder like, why 387 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: are the stars not getting thrown out into intergalactic space? 388 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: If you spin a merry go round and you put 389 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: ping pong balls on it, those ping pong balls will 390 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: fly out into space. So why are the stars not 391 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: flying out into space? The answer is is gravity in 392 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: the galaxy that's holding those stars, that keeping them from 393 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: getting thrown out into the universe. So then you can 394 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: do something cool, which is cross check your numbers. You 395 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: can say, if I know how fast the galaxy is spinning, 396 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: then I can calculate how much gravity I need to 397 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: hold the stars in place. But then I can add 398 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: up all the stars and ask is there enough gravity 399 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: to hold those stars in place? So you add up 400 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: all the mass of the galaxy you can see, calculate 401 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: the gravity from that, compare it to how fast things 402 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: are spinning. So they went they sent some grad student 403 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: to double check these numbers and said, we think we 404 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: understand this, just go double check. And the grad students 405 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: when made this measurements decades ago, and it turns out 406 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: it didn't work like at all. Of galaxies were spending 407 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: way way too fast. There wasn't nearly enough gravity in 408 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: these galaxies to hold the stars in So we didn't understand. 409 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: Was there some gravity coming from some invisible sort of 410 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: stuff that we couldn't see. Why weren't the stars getting 411 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: thrown out into space? Was there some other force to 412 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: gravity work differently than we imagined. So there's something basically 413 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: didn't understand, and people had to think big about the 414 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: kind of ideas they could explain it, because this is 415 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: not a small discrepancy. And one of my favorite things 416 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: about dark matter is we still know very little about it. 417 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: And the name of the theory itself is sort of 418 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: a description of the question, right, Like, we don't know 419 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: why galaxies are spinning, we don't know what's what's giving 420 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: us extra gravity, so we just come up with a 421 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: theory dark meaning we can't see it, matter meaning it 422 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: gives gravity. So it's like dark matter is the theory 423 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: of some invisible gravity giving thing, right. It's just like, 424 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: take the question what's the new invisible source of gravity 425 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: that explains this rotation and answer it with will maybe 426 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: some invisible gravity giving thing, right? But instead, in physics 427 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: you just tend to give it a fancy name, called 428 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: it dark matter, because then it sounds more like an answer. 429 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: But the truth is we don't really know very much 430 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: about dark matter. We know that it's there, you've seen 431 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: it because it causes these galaxies to rota, But we 432 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: don't know what it is made out of, particles, is 433 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: it made out of something else? What kind of particles 434 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: is it made out of? But we know very little 435 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: about dark manner and I love hearing the way you 436 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: guys talk about these sorts of discoveries or at least 437 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: an understanding that this must be in existence. That you know, 438 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: twenty thirty years ago, we had no idea to even 439 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: question this kind of thing or even think about this 440 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: kind of thing. We thought we had a general understanding 441 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: of how the universe was structured in some way. And 442 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 1: then as we learn more and more, the main thing 443 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: that we're doing is exposing all of the many things 444 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: that we have no idea about. And I love the 445 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: way you guys talk about that exactly, And to me, 446 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: that's the excitement. You know, is that scientific come up 447 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: and right the universe says you thought you understood something. 448 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: You guys are such idiots like and you know we're 449 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: doing the best we can. But we continue as humans 450 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: to make this mistake of over generalizing. We have a 451 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: bunch of examples from our experience and we say, maybe 452 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: everything works this way, right, We say, oh, life on 453 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: Earth works this way, maybe everything in the universe operates 454 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: under the same rules. But we continue to discover that 455 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: our experience is parochial, that it's just one slice of 456 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: the kind of physics you could have. You know, the 457 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: life that we leave is sort of large on the 458 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: scale of like tiny particles, and it's sort of slow 459 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: on the scale of astronomical objects. So you know, before 460 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: Newton and before Einstein, you might have thought, oh, we 461 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: have most of physics figured out, but then quantum mechanics 462 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: and relativity show us that actually we didn't understand anything 463 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: about the way the universe works at its lowest level. 464 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: And this is a continuous process, right, And so another 465 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: point we want to make in this book is that 466 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: huge fraction in the universe is not understood, which means 467 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: not only that there are questions we've identified that we 468 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: mean the answers to, like how did the universe begin? 469 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: And what is the universe made out of? But there 470 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: might be basic things that we think we understand that 471 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: will be revealed to be wrong in two hundred years. 472 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: People might look back at our understanding of physics and 473 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: laugh at us, right, and say, those guys understood nothing. 474 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: That's the case. I mean that means that that you know, 475 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: crazy revelations and new ways of looking at the universe 476 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: are ahead of us, and I hope they happen in 477 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: my lifetime. Well, I I think one of the things 478 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: that was also encouraging to me to hear was how 479 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: you said there's so much room for philosophy in this 480 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: not understanding the world right like that there's there's stuff 481 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, and then space to speculate and think and 482 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: think big. I found that really poetic. Yeah. Well, one 483 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: of the fun things about science is that it's so 484 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: philosophically important, right. Um. I love when people talk about, 485 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, is philosophy important? There is science the only 486 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: useful thing when you know, you need philosophy even to 487 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: understand why science is important. And um, there's this counterplay 488 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: between science and philosophy. There are things that you can test, right, 489 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: experiments we can do to measure things and understand things, 490 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: and there are things we can't yet test. You know, 491 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: we can't understand what's beyond the edge of our observable universe, right, Um, 492 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: there's the universe is a certain age. It's almost fourteen 493 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: billion years old, and we can't see anything that's beyond 494 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: a certain horizon because life just hasn't had time to 495 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: get to us yet. So what's beyond their purely the 496 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: realm of philosophy, because no science experiment can tell you 497 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: it's just an invisible, impierceable veil beyond which we cannot see, 498 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: which means there's lots of room for people to speculate, 499 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: right and speculation wild ideas totally fun um. I think 500 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot of room for that. But I also 501 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: think it's important to draw a bright line between the 502 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: science and the philosophy, because there are some things that 503 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: we can test. So one of my favorite examples is 504 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: the multiverse. You hear this idea a lot, maybe our 505 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: universe it is part of a set of other universes 506 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: which are all weird and different, and that's a fun idea, 507 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: But in my view it falls squarely in the philosophy 508 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: camp because we can never test it right. These other universes. 509 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: By construction, that being another universe means it's the place 510 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: we can't interact with. You can't send a probe there 511 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: to discover it, you can't see its effects on electrons, 512 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: you can't do any sort of experiment to interact with 513 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: that universe, which means you could never prove those other 514 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 1: universes exist, which means it will forever be philosophy. I 515 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: don't say that in any sort of negative sense. Right, 516 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: forever being philosophy means forever the speculation um by theorists 517 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: and philosophers, which is wonderful, you know, smoking in appeals 518 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: and have a lot of fun. It's important, I think, 519 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: to draw that line to say here our ideas we have, 520 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: but that's certainly not scientific proven. Yeah, I like some 521 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: science communicators sometimes fuzz that line a little bit more 522 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: than I'm comfortable with. I like that. We recently did 523 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: an episode on trash talking, and you just describe philosophers 524 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: as smoking banana peals and having a lot of fun. 525 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: I kind of like that. Maybe maybe we'll have them 526 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: on to be like, hey, so what do you think 527 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: about particle physicists? Now, I'm just kidding that that's terrific. Well, 528 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: I have a couple of other big questions for you 529 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: that you must answer before we let you go. But 530 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: before we do that, why don't we take a quick break. 531 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part time Genius. Now we are talking 532 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: to day you Whites and co author of We Have 533 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: No Idea, this terrific, terrific book, and we have a 534 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: couple of other big questions before we let him go. So, Daniel, 535 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: I did want to talk a little bit more about 536 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: some of your work at cern and specifically about the 537 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: big discovery a few years ago of the Higgs boson, 538 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,959 Speaker 1: something that we all knew we were looking for, and 539 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: until we found it, you know, obviously we couldn't get 540 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: too too excited about it. But can you talk a 541 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: little bit about that process one helping us understand the 542 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: significance of the Higgs boson, but two also just what 543 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: it's like to be somewhere, you know, like where you're working, 544 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: and when a discovery that you know you've been looking 545 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: for for so long is finally there. What that must 546 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: feel like. I think the discovery the Higgs boson is 547 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: really an amazing feat in human intellectual history because it 548 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: proves the power of maths and patterns. You know, the 549 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: origin of it is fifty years ago a bunch of theorists, 550 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: including a guy named Higgs. We're looking at what you 551 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: knew about particles, and it just couldn't really make sense 552 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: of it. You know, the mathematics were just sort of ugly. 553 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: They didn't understand how can all these particles fit together? 554 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: And what why do some of these particles have mass 555 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: and some of these particles don't have mass. It just 556 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: didn't really make sense of them it wasn't beautiful. And 557 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: there's this interesting push in theoretical physics to say that 558 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: the universe should be simple, and our theory of it 559 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: should be beautiful. There should be some elegance, some symmetry 560 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: to it, which is sort of fascinating, and I think 561 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: a whole other topics we could explore. But this desire 562 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: for simplicity and elegance and beauty pushed them to think, 563 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: is there another way we could look at these particles? 564 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: And so this guy, Peter Higgs and several other people 565 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: came up with this theory. They said, you know what 566 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: if you add one more particle to this mix, and 567 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: that particle has this special property I'll tell you about 568 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: in the moment, then everything just clicks together and it's 569 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: so much simpler and more beautiful. And so maybe this 570 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: is the way the universe works. Since is an idea 571 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: of something I have fifty years ago. And the incredible 572 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: thing is that he was right. You know, this particle 573 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: does exist and it does do the things that he 574 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: suspected that it did, and it suggests that you know, 575 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: this desire for simplicity, this desire to see the universe 576 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: and in an aesthetically simple and beautiful and elegant way 577 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: might be a good way to look at things, right, 578 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: that we the universe at its core is not a 579 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: messy jumble of rules, but a simple set of lessons 580 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: out of which emerge complex fascinating phenomenon, right, like particles 581 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: and ice cream and hamsters and podcasts and all that 582 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. You know. The idea that the universe 583 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: can be explained from a few small set of rules 584 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: is very to me attractive philosophically, right, and the game 585 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: we're back into philosophy. And so the question is why 586 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: did this particle make things simpler? What about this particle 587 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: made our understanding of how the universe worked at its 588 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: smaller scale more simple, or more beautiful or more elegant. Well, 589 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: the question they were trying to understand is why are 590 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: some particles have this mass and other particles don't. For example, 591 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: the photon photon flies through space that has no mass, 592 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: It's just energy moving at the speed of light. Other 593 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: particles like the z boson or the w boson, these 594 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: other particles are very similar to the photon, very similar 595 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: properties and play similar rules, but they're really heavy. They 596 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: have a lot of mass. So people who aren't trying 597 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: to understand why is that um? What controls what has 598 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: mass and what doesn't have mass? And before we answer that, 599 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: you have to think about what is mass. If you 600 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: think about a particle, you're probably thinking about a tiny, 601 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: little spinning ball of stuff, right. And if you think 602 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: about a particle that has mass, probably envisioning it has 603 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: like a little serving of some stuff to it and 604 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: that's what gives it mass. Right, But in our theory 605 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: that's not the case. In our theory, these particles are 606 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: all point particles. They're all tiny dots in space with 607 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: zero volume. So when we think about mass, actually we 608 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: don't think of up stuff or it's no room in 609 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: the particle for any stuff. It's not like something that 610 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: has mass has a bigger serving of universe stuff or 611 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: or more of its squeezed into a little space. They 612 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: all have the zero volume. So instead of thinking about 613 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: mass as an amount of stuff you need to think 614 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: of It's sort of the way you think about electric charge. 615 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: It's just like a label we put on points in space, 616 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: all right. You don't think about when you think about 617 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: the electron. You don't think where is the negative charge 618 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: of the electron? Is there room for the negative charge. 619 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: Does it fit in there? Right? You just think, oh, 620 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: electron has the negative charge. So you should think about 621 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: particles the same way. Some of them have this mass property, 622 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: other ones don't. And that's the question that we're trying 623 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: to answer, and that's where the Higgs does. The Higgs 624 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: is this crazy idea. It says that maybe there's this 625 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: field that fills the entire universe, literally, the whole universe 626 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: filled with this new kind of field called the Higgs field, 627 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: a field like in a electric field or a magnetic field, 628 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: but now a new kind of field, a Higgs field. 629 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: And this field interacts with particles, and some particles it 630 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,959 Speaker 1: makes it harder for them to speed up and slow down, 631 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: and other particles it ignores. So if the Higgs field 632 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: interacts with your particle, like the W the z boson 633 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: that it makes it hard for that particle to speed 634 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: up and hard for it to slow down. That means 635 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: it has inertia, which is another way of saying it 636 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: has mass. So the idea is the mass of these 637 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: particles comes from the way they interact with this new 638 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: crazy field. And photons just don't interact with that field. 639 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: They fly right through without even noticing. That was the idea, 640 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 1: and if this field existed, it explained why some particles 641 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: got mass and some particles didn't get mass. And then 642 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: the prediction of that field that says, if that field exists, 643 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: then sometimes it would get excited, and in certain spots 644 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: it would get excited enough to create out of the 645 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: vacuum this particle called the Higgs boson on. So the 646 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: Higgs boson and the Higgs field are two different things, 647 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: but one sort of proof of the existence of the other. 648 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: So that's what we looked for at the Hadron Collider. 649 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: We tried to create enough localized energy using our collider 650 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: to create a Higgs boson so we could spot it, 651 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: which would be proof of the existence of the Higgs field, 652 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: which would explain why particles have mass. So what was 653 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: that experience like as it was discovered. I'm sure there 654 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: was just a huge celebration. Uh, it was sort of 655 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: like running a marathon. Honestly, it's such a long process. 656 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: We've been looking for the Higgs for decades. When I 657 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: started in particle physics in about it was the top 658 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: priority for particle physics, and then we discovered it, you know, 659 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve, and along the way there 660 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: were times we thought we might have hints of it, 661 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: and times we thought we'll never see it, or you know, 662 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: will we even have the power to discover it um, 663 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: But it sort of happened gradually. We started to see 664 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: the hints, little bits of evidence here, a little bit 665 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: to Theavean's there, started to build up, slowly, slowly, slowly, 666 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: until eventually we crossed the official threshold for having enough 667 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 1: data to convince ourselves and decide say, yes, we can 668 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: say that we've discovered it. But it's sort of like 669 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: when you get to mile twenty two of your marathon. 670 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: At that point you're pretty sure you're gonna finish, you 671 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: just sort of got to stumble across the finish line. 672 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: There's no like real moment there where we said, okay, 673 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: we've discovered it. I mean, there was a public announcement, 674 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: but by that point everybody inside the community had already 675 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: been convinced that it was real. It was there, so 676 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: it wasn't really like a It's not like some late 677 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: night moment where the experiment concluded and we saw the 678 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: results pop up on the screen and nature tells us 679 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: the answer. More of a slow accumulation of results. And 680 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: the other thing I think a lot of people don't 681 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 1: recognize is this was done by massive teams of people, 682 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: or maybe ten tho people were involved intimately in this process. 683 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: So again, it's not like you're maybe your romantic view 684 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: of a physicist or you know, grad student late at 685 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: night alone in the lab seeing the answer for the 686 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: first time and having that experience of knowing something about 687 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 1: the universe that nobody else knows. Right, That's that's an 688 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: exciting idea. It was like meetings and discussions and long 689 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: conversations and more meetings and millions of power points slides. 690 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't mean to undermine the glamorous 691 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: nature or particle physics or anything, but you asked what 692 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: was it like? And you know it was a long slog. 693 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It is funny because I think we 694 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: do all imagine it is like, everybody, get in here. 695 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: Jerry saw it. Jerry pushed the big red button boom 696 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: who discovered the Higgs boson? You know, the thing is 697 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 1: that the Higgs is pretty rare. Even if you focus 698 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: your particle beams and give them a lot of energy, 699 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: you're producing one every few seconds. Whereas you have, you know, 700 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: billions of collisions and seconds, so you have to sift 701 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: through a lot of collisions, and then you have to 702 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 1: do it for a long time to accumulate enough examples 703 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: that you statistically can say we're pretty sure it exists. 704 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: So it's, uh, it's a long game. It's like, you know, 705 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: you're putting a puzzle pieces together, and before you get 706 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: the last piece in, you're pretty sure you knew what 707 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: the puzzle looks like, but you know you still have 708 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: to go through the work of putting all the finding 709 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: those little edged pieces and filling in the sky and 710 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 1: all those pieces. You know, I've heard you talk about 711 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: those numbers of collisions and numbers of experiments that you 712 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: have to do. When you say a lot, it's actually 713 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: it's pretty mind blowing. Can you talk about what that 714 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: is when you're doing these experiments to find something that 715 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: you know is pretty rare. What frequency of experiments are 716 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 1: you doing? And then and and then how many of them? Right, 717 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 1: So we're looking for rare stuff. Most of the time 718 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: when you collide to protons together, not much happens to 719 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: protons come out. Occasionally, you know, one in a million 720 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: or one in a billion times, something different will happen. 721 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: So if you want to see a lot of examples 722 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: of the rare stuff, you've got to sift through a 723 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: huge number of examples of the boring stuff. So that's 724 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: why we do as many collisions as we can, so 725 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: we do it every twenty five nanoseconds. So we have 726 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: these huge detectors at certain which are focused around this 727 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 1: collision points, and then the accelerator runs through the heart 728 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: of the detector and it delivers two beams which cross 729 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: right at that collision point. And the beams are not 730 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: like let's shoot one particle at one other particle. You 731 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: shoot like a bunch of particles like ten to the 732 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,720 Speaker 1: thirteen protons at another bunch, tend of tending the thirteen 733 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: protons and hope to get some collisions. And then you 734 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 1: have these bunches staggered through your accelerator. Accelerators a big circle. 735 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: So you imagine all these little bunches zooming through the 736 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: accelerator in perfect coincidence. They overlap right at these collision points, 737 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: and you get these collisions every twenty five nanoseconds. And 738 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: every time there's a collision, we take this massive digital 739 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: picture and then we had this enormous fire hose the 740 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: data that pours out of the detector, and we have 741 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: to somehow try to capture that and analyze it and 742 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: simplify and reduce it so that we can boil it 743 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: all down to answer an actual physics question like does 744 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: this particle exist? To me, that's one of the fun parts. 745 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm sort of a statistics and data processing, machine learning 746 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: kind of guy, data science, and so for me, it's 747 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: a really fun puzzles how to drink from this massive 748 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: fire hose of information and answer very high level questions 749 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: about the universe. That's pretty amazing. So so Mega, we've 750 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: gotten a chance to talk about traveling at light speed, 751 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: quantum teleportation, the Higgs boson. I don't know if achieve it. 752 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: I still have a thousand more questions I could ask. Yeah, 753 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we're gonna have to have you back 754 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 1: on Daniel sometime. But I do hope that all of 755 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: our listeners will check out your awesome book that you 756 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: and Jorge have worked on together. We have no idea, 757 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: but Daniel, thanks so much for joining us on parts. 758 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: I'm genius. Thank you very much a lot of fun 759 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: guys and I'd love to be back anytime every Thanks 760 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: again for listening. Part Time Genius is a production of 761 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,800 Speaker 1: how stuff works and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant 762 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: people who do the important things we couldn't even begin 763 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: to understand. Tristan McNeil does the editing thing. Noel Brown 764 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: made the theme song and does the MIXI mixy sound thing. 765 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: Jerry Rowland does the exact producer thing. Gave Louesier is 766 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: our lead researcher, with support from the research Army including 767 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas Adams and Eve. Jeff 768 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,240 Speaker 1: Cook gets the show to your ears. Good job, Eves. 769 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, 770 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: And if you really really like what you've heard, maybe 771 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: you could leave a good review for us. Did you 772 00:41:48,520 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: forget James Jason who