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Speaker 1: Afro tech World. Marie Sayris is the founder and CEO

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Speaker 1: at Bloom and Bloom Bespoke floral Design Studios. Needs in

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Speaker 1: the afro tech metaverse talking about a non tech these

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Speaker 1: guys to storytelling using social media in order to build

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Speaker 1: an audience and grow a business in today's climate. When

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Speaker 1: I went to college, I really was into the nuts

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Speaker 1: and bolts of how things work as opposed to like

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Speaker 1: the tech of how things work. However, since having a business,

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Speaker 1: I understand that a mass way to communicate to customers

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Speaker 1: and a great way to communicate with people period is

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Speaker 1: through social media through our phones, and I found that

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Speaker 1: Instagram was one of the major ways that I was

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Speaker 1: able to communicate to other people and to like take

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Speaker 1: something that is so the three dimensional on so um

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Speaker 1: hands on that track and three dimensional, and the way

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Speaker 1: it translates on camera, it really flattens out. And so

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Speaker 1: I wanted to figure out a way to still share

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Speaker 1: what I do and what I'm experiencing when I see

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Speaker 1: the person through photography and through that digital platform. I

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Speaker 1: love how visual Instagram is. I think it's so cool,

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Speaker 1: and so I wanted to contribute to that, and so

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Speaker 1: I use that as my portfolio. I am not a

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Speaker 1: tech savvy person, However I understand it's important and how

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Speaker 1: it's the way that one can have a viable business.

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Speaker 1: So that's been a really, really great active way to

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Speaker 1: have a portfolio and to like start to create your

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Speaker 1: own messaging. So that's something that I use constantly to

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Speaker 1: communicate ideas, what we're up to, what we're into, and

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Speaker 1: I think that has drawn of an audience that is

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Speaker 1: interested in what we do. I'm Will Lucas and this

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Speaker 1: is Black Tech, Green Money. I'm gonna introduce you to

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Speaker 1: some of the biggest names, some of the brightest minds

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Speaker 1: and brilliant ideas. If you're black, in building or simply

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Speaker 1: using tech to secure your back, this podcast is for you. You.

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Speaker 1: Lisa Gene Charles is the founder and CEO at Healthy

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Speaker 1: Roots Dolls, which makes toys that represent more diverse backgrounds.

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Speaker 1: A Detroit native, her dolls teach natural hair carried the

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Speaker 1: young girls of color through toys. One of the things

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Speaker 1: we talked about often in tech is the need for

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Speaker 1: representation in order to inspire other black youth to leverage

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Speaker 1: tech for generational wealth. Ask you, Lisa, why is so

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Speaker 1: important for representation with something so simple as toys. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I was studying illustration at the Round School Design,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have an interest in toys. Haven't really

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Speaker 1: had an interest in toys since I was like four.

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Speaker 1: But uh, I did have an interest in social impact

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Speaker 1: and the work that artists do and the way it

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Speaker 1: can influence culture and conversation. And so for me that

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Speaker 1: meant researching and learning that toys actually have a huge

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Speaker 1: influence on how kids think, act and see themselves, and

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Speaker 1: so when children can't find products that look like them,

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Speaker 1: it can have a negative impact on their self esteem.

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Speaker 1: I also learned a little bit about the brown versus

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Speaker 1: Board of Education trial and the Mammy Clark doll test

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Speaker 1: and what role that played in children's self perception and

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Speaker 1: asking children how do you feel about this white doll

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Speaker 1: versus black doll, and having white children overwhelmingly abscribed negative

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Speaker 1: attributes to the black doll, but also having black children

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Speaker 1: do the same thing. And so we see how at

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Speaker 1: a young age people children can be socialized to have

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Speaker 1: these biases, and then thinking about, well, what can we

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Speaker 1: do and what can we create to counteract that? Far

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Speaker 1: too often, you know, because I have the arts, far

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Speaker 1: too often, you know, parents will say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: will they all feel? You know, well, it's just a doll,

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Speaker 1: you know, because we don't really see the impacts like

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Speaker 1: present day and may play out over a lifetime when

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Speaker 1: you are doing that research, like, how did you recognize that,

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Speaker 1: you know, creating the change for young girls and boys today? Um, Actually,

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Speaker 1: in your marketing strategy, how do you communicate that this

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Speaker 1: actually has an impact and it's important to be resolved

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Speaker 1: today versus waiting till they're older, you know, to try

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Speaker 1: to fix, you know, the perceptions that they have about

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Speaker 1: communities that they are part of. Actually, I don't think

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Speaker 1: we really include that in our marketing because people Our

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Speaker 1: goal is never to convince people that this product is important.

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Speaker 1: It's to present it to people that understand or that

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Speaker 1: are looking for it. You can't force people or force

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Speaker 1: feed them the understanding that this is our reality. Like

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Speaker 1: children are influenced by these things racists, real, prayer is real.

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Speaker 1: You can only resent them opportunities to purchase products that

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Speaker 1: might counteract that without them knowing. So we don't really

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Speaker 1: put that in our marketing. Our marketing is mainly just

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Speaker 1: look at this really great toy, kids love her. Here's

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Speaker 1: what she teaches them to do, and then you know

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Speaker 1: what under the surface of that, this is the potential

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Speaker 1: long term impact that you might see. You know. I

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Speaker 1: love that response because it plays into so many different verticals.

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Speaker 1: I was having a conversation UM and I wasn't I

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Speaker 1: didn't prepare us. But you made me think about the

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Speaker 1: conversation I had with Dr Key Holman, who runs UM

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Speaker 1: the Market in Atlanta, and I was talking to her

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Speaker 1: about how I don't particularly subscribe to, you know, support

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Speaker 1: our businesses. I feel like I want to create value.

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Speaker 1: And if you see value, then like we don't support Walmart,

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Speaker 1: we don't support Target, like we go shop there because

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Speaker 1: they have the things that we need. And so I

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Speaker 1: wonder what your perspective is on because you just talked

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Speaker 1: about you don't you you don't try to sell a narrative.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to create something hopefully people see value. What

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Speaker 1: do you say to that perspective? Because I'm very interested

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Speaker 1: in this. I don't I never want to just go

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Speaker 1: around and say, hey, come buy my thing because I

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Speaker 1: need your support. No, I think it makes sense. I

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Speaker 1: always believe that you have a company if you people

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Speaker 1: are buying your product, and if you are not buying

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Speaker 1: your product. You don't have a company, and there's nothing

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Speaker 1: you can say or do to make people buy something

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Speaker 1: if they don't want to buy it. They're not gonna

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Speaker 1: people are gonna buy something just because you're black, just

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Speaker 1: because you're a woman. They're gonna buy it because you

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Speaker 1: are those things and they value that, and they also

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Speaker 1: love your product. And so I believe in letting the

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Speaker 1: products speak for itself. And if you also think that

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Speaker 1: the story behind the person who built it is great, awesome,

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Speaker 1: but that's not what's going to make you. That's not

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Speaker 1: what my goal is to make you buy this product.

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Speaker 1: My goal is for people who identify with the value

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Speaker 1: to purchase it. So let's go a step further there,

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Speaker 1: you know, because you're not trying to sell people who

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Speaker 1: you know, may not, you know, prescribe to that idea.

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Speaker 1: But there's also hundreds of other dolls you know that

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Speaker 1: maybe of color. What separates healthy roots dolls apart from

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Speaker 1: the pack when you're not trying to necessarily sell a

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Speaker 1: narrative it's a healthy Roots doll. The other dolls are

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Speaker 1: healthy that. I think it's interesting because people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: how are you different? Or so and so could could

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Speaker 1: do this. It was like they could, but they're not,

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Speaker 1: and they can't. That's our product. But the other thing

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Speaker 1: is I don't necessarily see this competition because there's no

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Speaker 1: child that only has one doll. We just created another

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Speaker 1: option for you, and if you add Zoe to that

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Speaker 1: club of toys, awesome. We often see products that target,

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Speaker 1: you know, black consumers, whether it be black children, black adults,

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Speaker 1: or whatever, and they often, too often I think they

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Speaker 1: are lame attempts, likely designed with the idea that we're monolithic,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes designed with stereotypes um to thinking about

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Speaker 1: toys we don't or before healthy roots, like we haven't

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Speaker 1: had many that reflected shade well, um talls that were

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Speaker 1: very dark, dolls that were very light, like how do

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Speaker 1: you find, you know, dolls that represent the spectrum you

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Speaker 1: know of black people. Why do companies still to this

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Speaker 1: day have such a hard time with this. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's true, because I see so many different

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Speaker 1: toys that I even now I am collecting. If I

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Speaker 1: see something on the shelf, like I'm grabbing it, like

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Speaker 1: I just saw in contest from Disney, they release those

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Speaker 1: dolls Raya, the Last Dragon, They released dolls for those characters.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's more so it's not that they

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Speaker 1: don't exist, it's that people can't find them. Okay, then

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Speaker 1: that's probably my case. But no, that's another thing. Why

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Speaker 1: are these products not widely distributed? Why are people not

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Speaker 1: aware of the products that exists out there? Why do

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Speaker 1: they have to have an ad be shown to them

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Speaker 1: first before they know it exists? Why is it not

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Speaker 1: on every Walmart shelf? Why is it not in every store?

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Speaker 1: Why is it not equally as distributed as the non

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Speaker 1: parents of color? So let's talk about distribution, you know,

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Speaker 1: because we're moving into a world because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about how about getting on a store shelf?

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Speaker 1: And I wonder if you think do we still need

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Speaker 1: to be on store shelves? Or is direct to consumer

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Speaker 1: a valid distribution channel for startup toymakers. I think d

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Speaker 1: TWOC is a great channel. But it's also marketing. So

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Speaker 1: if you're not able to market a product and build

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Speaker 1: an audience and know how to speak to that audience

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Speaker 1: and utilize all the tools in order to get your

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Speaker 1: ads in front of the right people, build your email

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Speaker 1: marketing funnel, build the right website, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: succeed in that space. It's very challenging. You have to

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Speaker 1: have all the right tools, all the right approaches. But

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Speaker 1: it's great when you get it right. It's the way

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Speaker 1: so many brands have been able to launch themselves and

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Speaker 1: then establish with retailers. It's how a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: underestimated founders get their products into the market in the

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Speaker 1: first place. But they also have the tools and resources

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Speaker 1: to do so, or they have to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: So I totally believe in direct consumer channel. I love it.

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Speaker 1: It's great. It's a marketing effort for sure, but it's

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Speaker 1: not the only way. It's a great way to start.

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Speaker 1: And I was just um, took my keys to watch

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Speaker 1: in Conto, and I get why they want those toys

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Speaker 1: because they were just on the big screen. You know,

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Speaker 1: these sorts of things. How do you if you were

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Speaker 1: building healthy routes over today in the world of Snapchat,

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Speaker 1: in the world of TikTok, in the world of roadblocks.

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Speaker 1: You know, I I tweeted this on a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago that I believe roadblocks is like the LinkedIn

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Speaker 1: for kids, Like that's how they go and they meet

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Speaker 1: people and they see what they did because they got

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Speaker 1: this backpack full of these virtual toys in their metaverse.

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Speaker 1: So how do you build demand for toys when we

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Speaker 1: are so used to, at least in the day I

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Speaker 1: grew up, if it was on TV, that's what I wanted,

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Speaker 1: And it's not maybe so much the case of that anymore.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct from my well, I know from my

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Speaker 1: experience that it's grown organically. So it's a lot of storytelling,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of organic marketing, you know, sharing your story,

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Speaker 1: doing the podcast, going to the events, creating your content

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Speaker 1: and sharing it online with an audience, and then people

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Speaker 1: organically deciding to say, hey, I found this thing, you

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Speaker 1: should totally check this out for your kid, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, earned media. But that that's a slow build,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's something that people forget when they

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Speaker 1: can look at a company like Healthy Roots. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: this happened so quickly. It's like no, I started in

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Speaker 1: class and that was like five years of developing the

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Speaker 1: first product, getting building a lot of organic relationships that

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Speaker 1: have helped us help to make it a bit easier

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Speaker 1: to get those those big published gigs, getting into you know,

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Speaker 1: being nominated for Toy of the Year, last year and

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Speaker 1: things like that, and so I say that I think

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Speaker 1: it's really valuable to focus on organic, so organically having

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Speaker 1: kids find your product and clicking with it because you

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Speaker 1: sent it out to a bunch of influencers and they

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Speaker 1: all did YouTube reviews and now all the kids know

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Speaker 1: about it and things like that. They're telling their friends.

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Speaker 1: It's incredibly valuable. Do you think there's a day where

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Speaker 1: you might you know, have the dolls as care there's

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Speaker 1: on TikTok. I think that's such a concept. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think that also costs a lot of money. You go,

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Speaker 1: I love it. Just that's it. You know, if I could,

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Speaker 1: if I could do everything, I would do everything for sure.

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Speaker 1: Like it's some because so many of our people and

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about you know how you funded

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Speaker 1: this in a little bit, but so much so many

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Speaker 1: of our people have these remarkable things. Um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: having the fuel in the tank is can be an issue.

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Speaker 1: So you just talked about the the idea that this

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Speaker 1: wasn't this was not fast for you, But how do

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Speaker 1: you know, Let's say you're the toymaker, you're a kid's

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Speaker 1: book publisher, and you're doing this out of your kitchen

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Speaker 1: or your garage and it's year three and you went

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Speaker 1: from selling twenty to two hundred. Like, that's not like

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Speaker 1: a huge amount of growth over a period of time,

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Speaker 1: not at least not in the world that we talk

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Speaker 1: about of scale. But how do you know that it's

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Speaker 1: worth it to keep going? What are the indicators you're

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Speaker 1: looking for? I mean those indicators are metrics that you

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Speaker 1: define for yourself. So if you told yourself in a

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Speaker 1: year that you're going to hit these sales goals and

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Speaker 1: these are these are the strategies you're gonna implement to

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Speaker 1: hit those goals, and then you don't, you gotta decide

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Speaker 1: do I keep going or do I try something else

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Speaker 1: and see how that impacts my goals for the next year.

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Speaker 1: So you set your own pace, you set your own

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Speaker 1: factors that determine success, and if you don't hit those factors,

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Speaker 1: then I guess that's how you make your decisions whether

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Speaker 1: or not to keep going. Yeah, I was talking to

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Speaker 1: a fashion designer a few episodes ago about getting celebrity backing,

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Speaker 1: like somebody to an influencer to to wear your stuff,

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Speaker 1: and how much of an impact that is required in

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Speaker 1: order to build uh a label that you know people

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Speaker 1: want in desire, And I wonder, because you mentioned this,

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Speaker 1: getting influencers, you know, getting it in their hands and

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Speaker 1: getting them to talk about it. Um could be an

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Speaker 1: important you know, road and a venue for you know

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Speaker 1: you to build demand for your things. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: about some strategies that may have worked for you or

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Speaker 1: that you've seen work with regard to toys and dolls

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Speaker 1: and novelties to being able to get people to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to talk about your things on their channels. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think one of the brands that has the money

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Speaker 1: to do this. Um leal Surprise is this major. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you already know your kids already have them, don't pay Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they already do, yes, yeah yeah, but LLL Surprise has

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Speaker 1: taken how our attention has changed and also recognizing how

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Speaker 1: short children's attention is on products by creating these little

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Speaker 1: just like scared like scarcity moments with these different little products,

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Speaker 1: and it literally is the way that kids brains work.

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Speaker 1: It's that like hit of like opening something, getting all

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Speaker 1: these little different things and then like being able to

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Speaker 1: go buy another one. And they're not expensive, they're not expensive.

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Speaker 1: They're fairly priced for all these little pieces. And it's

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Speaker 1: like wow, and and it creates collectibles for you know,

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Speaker 1: the older demographic of people who participate in doll collection

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Speaker 1: and things like that, and they trade these things. And

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Speaker 1: they also use celebrities like Cardi b who have kids.

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Speaker 1: They might not be always family friendly characters, but they

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Speaker 1: have children who love these things and throw birthday parties

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Speaker 1: for them. So it's like the scarcity combined with the visibility,

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Speaker 1: combined with the fun play pattern, it's a hit. I'm

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Speaker 1: not my brain has not moved past where you talked

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Speaker 1: what we talked about the animation and having like the

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Speaker 1: TikTok you know, virtual star of a Healthy Roots doll.

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Speaker 1: Because I think about Barbie and then all the verticals

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Speaker 1: Barbie has moved into, whether it be you know, Barbie

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Speaker 1: comic books, and there's Barbie posters, and there's Barbie stickers

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Speaker 1: that you can and all of these different things. What

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Speaker 1: what are low hanging fruit verticals that Healthy Roots could

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Speaker 1: go into, should just the right partner come along. I guess,

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Speaker 1: I'm I guess. My question is probably more so of like,

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Speaker 1: what is if you were to grow one point five

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Speaker 1: times your girl today? What are the key things that

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Speaker 1: would need to happen for your target audience what I

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Speaker 1: would imagine, and you can correct me. It's like an

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Speaker 1: eight to fifteen year old. Eight to fifteen year olds

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Speaker 1: my target audience. I'm asking right now, I'm asking, what's

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Speaker 1: what's your target? No, it's six six six to that.

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Speaker 1: I was too far off, too far off. I don't

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Speaker 1: see the fifteen year olds walking around. If you see

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Speaker 1: a fifteen year old with one of my dolls with

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Speaker 1: a matching app, please taking because because I see healthy,

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Speaker 1: Because representation has not been there, I think there's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity here. Now we we off on a whole different thing.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm I feel like there's a bigger market play

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Speaker 1: for you versus like other dolls, because we haven't had

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Speaker 1: that representation with young girls who see themselves physically animated.

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Speaker 1: You know, and that girl, that girl probably missed seeing

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Speaker 1: because we talked about distribution. I go down the aisles

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Speaker 1: of target again. I talked about I don't see a

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Speaker 1: bunch of shades, and so maybe I'm in the wrong

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Speaker 1: target And that's probably valid. You know what I see potentially,

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Speaker 1: and I'm in My oldest is eleven. So we'll figure

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Speaker 1: this out in four years. If she still wants to representation.

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Speaker 1: But I do see like for girls who did grow

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Speaker 1: up at you know, five, six, seven, didn't see themselves

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Speaker 1: in those dolls. Perhaps maybe they're not playing with them,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps they are the collectors of these things. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: because that's where the age we totally have collectors. It's

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Speaker 1: a thing we lots of people like I didn't have this.

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Speaker 1: I bought one for my grand baby, but then I

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Speaker 1: also bought one for me. But so you don't see

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Speaker 1: like there's any fifteen year olds who are like an

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Speaker 1: avenue into that demographic. Maybe if we got maybe if

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Speaker 1: we got Zoe some like lashes and let's go acrilics.

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Speaker 1: It all happened on black Tech Free money. Come on,

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Speaker 1: see people think it's some lashes for these dolls, because

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Speaker 1: it's happening because they represent what's like you get some

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Speaker 1: of them furry slippers. Put it on that that doll,

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Speaker 1: get her a little tell far let's go ye love it.

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Speaker 1: Many of the places where you've raised money, like they

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Speaker 1: don't like fund CpG. I don't know if this is

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Speaker 1: CpG or not, or toys like their tech investors. You know,

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Speaker 1: many of the places where you've got money, what from

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Speaker 1: your seat being the person who pitched and and one

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Speaker 1: these competitions, one these investments. What was it that got

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Speaker 1: them to buy in and say, yo, U has got something.

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Speaker 1: I know we are doing tech over here in courts

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Speaker 1: and engineers, but this because I've heard so many people

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Speaker 1: who do packaged goods and I'm not sure this falls

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Speaker 1: in that category. I don't know if this is a

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Speaker 1: CpG player, you can correct me. But I talk to

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Speaker 1: people like Tristan Walker, who actually does cepg's, Like those

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Speaker 1: investors who he was friends with were like, is the

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Speaker 1: market that big? You know, when you talk about the

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Speaker 1: black consumer, how do you get those investors to buy

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Speaker 1: into this? It's me and my pink sweaters. Um no. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So I am always very strategic in terms of the

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Speaker 1: spaces I go into and the conversations I have with people,

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Speaker 1: because UM seventeen is very hard for me. When I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, college student firstly, firstly graduated, didn't come from

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur background. I was an art student. I study illustration,

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Speaker 1: even though I had done an accelerator program. But people

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Speaker 1: didn't see the necessary requirements in order to believe in

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Speaker 1: me as a founder just yet. Um. And so I

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Speaker 1: learned that the most valuable thing that I have is

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Speaker 1: my time, and so I would always tell founders, you know,

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Speaker 1: stop chasing money and go find people that actually want

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Speaker 1: to fund you. And so you can't go to the

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Speaker 1: competition tiens where they're focused on tech and sas and fintech,

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Speaker 1: because you know, if you're competing with a person that's

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Speaker 1: trying to cure cancer and you're making dolls, they're not

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Speaker 1: particularly interested in that. So I actually only participated in

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Speaker 1: programs and pitch competitions where they were either trying to

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Speaker 1: support female founders, founders of color, or invest in physical

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Speaker 1: product companies. So one of the first competitions I did

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Speaker 1: was the Startup Stampede in Durham, North Carolina, which is

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Speaker 1: actually specifically for e commerce companies, which is where I

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Speaker 1: learned how to make Facebook ads and that's how I successfully.

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Speaker 1: UM had really strong sales seasons in twenty so how

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Speaker 1: I learned how to build dynamic audiences online. I then

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Speaker 1: went on to win the first New Voices pitch competition

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Speaker 1: at Essence Fest, which is where a lot of black

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Speaker 1: women are and there that fund is specifically for black women.

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Speaker 1: I then did another accelerated program, then I won UM

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Speaker 1: the Wendy Lee, UM mainstream Venture Grit, which is Fromcinnati,

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Speaker 1: which is in the city that I lived in, and

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Speaker 1: they were supporting founders. So all my money technically came

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Speaker 1: from these places, like even the quick and Loans Detroit

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Speaker 1: Demoday where we could come dollars. That was for companies

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Speaker 1: that were in the city of Detroit. UM that were

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Speaker 1: starting like my phase would start like I was a

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Speaker 1: new company. I told the compelling story, and I also

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Speaker 1: had the support of the community after being there for

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Speaker 1: some time, and the people voted for me. So UM.

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Speaker 1: The short answer is that I tell a compelling story,

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Speaker 1: I have a great product product, and people believe in

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Speaker 1: the work that I'm doing. I also curate with the

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Speaker 1: things that I compete in. UM. But that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of time. A lot of a lot of black founders

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Speaker 1: find or I guess a lot of founders in general,

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Speaker 1: find that they need to be part of that story,

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Speaker 1: part of the story. How do you have to, as

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur be the thing to the consumer that sells it,

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Speaker 1: or can you lead with the product? I think what

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Speaker 1: I'm when you say that, all I can think about

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Speaker 1: is authenticity, which oftentimes means that you have to be

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Speaker 1: a part of the story. So I started this company.

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Speaker 1: It's relatively young. I'm young. I created this because of

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Speaker 1: a compelling reason. I am. I am the company. I'm

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Speaker 1: part of the company's story. And that's for people being

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Speaker 1: able to see the person who started it, who's constantly

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Speaker 1: working on it, and seeing where we started versus where

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Speaker 1: we are now. That matters because it's very it's relatable,

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Speaker 1: and it may not be relatable in the sense that

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Speaker 1: everybody starting a company, but it's like, Wow, I've always

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Speaker 1: wanted to achieve great things and I'm seeing this person

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Speaker 1: who actually did all this work to do it. That's

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Speaker 1: really inspiring. I applaud that. Yeah, I'm glad you. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you answered that way because it makes me. It

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Speaker 1: leads me into what I thought you were gonna go

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Speaker 1: in the direction of and ask, is it then a

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Speaker 1: marketable asset? Then if the company, if your LIDSA, is

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Speaker 1: tied to it, like could I'm making this up like

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Speaker 1: could have has Bro say, Yo, we want healthy Roots dolls,

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Speaker 1: but without Elitza. If there is no Healthy Roots dolls,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. I hear what you're saying. They're identities

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Speaker 1: that are tied to brands like Oprah is Oprah brand. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. Maybe one day Zoe can be

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Speaker 1: the face of Healthy Roots Dolls. Yeah, I just wonder

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Speaker 1: if I just wanted to think about that, because I

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Speaker 1: wonder I get the question about how integrated should the

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Speaker 1: individual story be with the brand, and I hear a

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Speaker 1: wide variety of responses to that. Some people don't want

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Speaker 1: to be the face at all, They want to lead

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Speaker 1: with the thing, and UM, that's just curious on your

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Speaker 1: take on that. So I appreciate that I don't consider

429
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: myself the face of my company. I consider myself the

430
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: face of my own experience and and story building the company,

431
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: and sometimes we share that through the company as well

432
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: when you get to talk about the product day that

433
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: when you think ultimately about X saying if if you

434
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: ever think about exiting this company, and I'll let you

435
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: speak on at if you do, do you think about

436
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: do you encourage people to think about exiting at all?

437
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: And do you believe that there or or do you

438
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: believe that there will one day be a new has

439
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: bro like Healthy Roots Dolls could be the one, you know,

440
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: sucking up other opportunities instead of being the one that

441
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: is acquired. I always encourage people to think about their

442
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: long term plans. That's what I'm always telling people when

443
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: it comes to you know, even early on in this

444
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: conversation where you mentioned how do you when to quit

445
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: or how when you keep going? Like do you have

446
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: to create long term plans with mile Jones and then

447
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: chain with yourself on those miles swim determined? Is this progressing?

448
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: Is it's not progressing? Do I need to pivot? So

449
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: if you're starting a company, you need to think about

450
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: down the road what you ultimately want to happen, whether

451
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: that's I want to sell this company for this much money,

452
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: or I want to partner like merge, whatever that might be,

453
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: and that will help drive the rest of the decisions

454
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: you make along the way. I think it's incredib important

455
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: to keep that as a part of history if that's

456
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: the journey you want to take. Pre COVID, we had

457
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations in particularly in tech, about you know,

458
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: where you're located geographically depending on what you're building. So

459
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: if you were building fintech, you needed to be in

460
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: New York. If you were building you know, a consumer thing,

461
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: a social network, you needed to be in the Valley

462
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: or you know, media you needed to be in l A.

463
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: A lot of that's changed, um with COVID in your Detroit,

464
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: you know, Midwest, like I like I am Toledo. I

465
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: wonder what are from your perspective, what are the advantages

466
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: of being where you are? And do you see could

467
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: your success have grown better or faster or worse had

468
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: you not been in Detroit building Um, I definitely think

469
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: that some of my advantages are the cheap flights to

470
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: everywhere else and um, I think I've always just been

471
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: a big fish in a little on from where I

472
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: went from from elementary school to middle school to high school,

473
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: from the college that I went to, from the cities

474
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: that I've lived in I've always had. I've always been

475
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: one of the few people who has like big goals,

476
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: big visions, and is untethered. So I don't think where

477
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: I'm based can stop me from doing anything, because I'm

478
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: gonna go where I need to go to do what

479
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: I need to do. So you don't think being presently

480
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: there matters. I think it can if for it depends

481
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: on who you are, Like if you don't have the

482
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: access to the capital you need to go from place

483
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: to place to place, and you know, spend the month

484
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: here and spend two weeks here. It's gonna be way harder.

485
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: But if you can do that, do it. I would

486
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: travel from I spent four months in Durham, North Carolina.

487
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: I literally just packed up my stuff, went down there

488
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: and stayed there for four months. I've done that for Detroit,

489
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: where I went from Ohio to Michigan for four months

490
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: and then ultimately decided to relocate here. But I would

491
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: I spent a whole year basically on planes just going places.

492
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: But I think it's nice to have a home base

493
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: where you have a core network, where there's a growing

494
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: ecosystem of people doing some work, you know, and start

495
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: up in direct consider marketers so that you can like

496
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: mesh with them. I think that's something I definitely gained

497
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: from my article experience, which is like being in the

498
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: in the critique world of like putting your artwork on

499
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: the wall, getting feedback from people, so making sure you

500
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: have a circle so you can do that. But I

501
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: don't feel I personally, in my experience, have never felt

502
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: limited based on where I live, because I'm gonna go

503
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: where I need to be. Although I do understand how

504
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: where you live can impact that. You just have to

505
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: find your workarounds, and so for me, my workarounds were

506
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: just packing it up and going and asking for introductions.

507
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: In a few minutes I have left with you, I

508
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: do want to talk about getting on a store shelf,

509
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: and can you talk about like what retailers want to see,

510
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: Like how do you even get on their radar to

511
00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 1: where they're having a real conversation with you. Um? Well,

512
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: I think my particular strategy is name dropping, So I

513
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: will name drop retailers and articles. I had a Forbes interview.

514
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: I was it would be great to be in target

515
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: one day, um, and then a buyer reached out and

516
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: we were able to have a conversation about that. But

517
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: I think the best way to get on retail shelves

518
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: is to do five years worth of work, build strong

519
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: sales through your online store, and build a bunch of

520
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: relationships along the way where that's not your first touch

521
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: point with that retailer. So when you go, they have records,

522
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: they can look at what are they looking for? I can't,

523
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: So I can't even say that. I can't even tell

524
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: someone how you would go about getting into detail because

525
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: my journey is so unique in itself, and it's like, oh, yeah,

526
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: just do what I did. It's like I can't really

527
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: tell you to do what I did because I don't

528
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: really know what I did. I just did this work

529
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: and I purposefully went about like, oh yeah, I know

530
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: I want to be in target. Let me work on

531
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: building this channel. So there are definitely lots of opportunities

532
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: to meet buyers and get your products in front of people. UM.

533
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: You can look up those opportunities. I know. I am

534
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: in a bunch of toy different toy groups and organizations

535
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: like Women in Toys and the Toy Association that specifically

536
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: creates opportunities for vendors for members to pitch their products. UM.

537
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: Even the new voice is fund, which is a way

538
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: that people can pitch for UM in competitions for capital.

539
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: They have a segment of that organization that helps introduce

540
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: people to potential to target for potential retail opportunities. So,

541
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: but none of that matters if you don't have a

542
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: compelling product and it already established brand, because you have

543
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: to be able to market it, I'm sure, because it

544
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: has to happen when you're out. Let's say you go

545
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: to a show and you're walking down the aisle because

546
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: you just left your booth for fifteen minutes or whatever.

547
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: You're just out looking at other people, talking to other

548
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: founders who have products, and you see indicators that make

549
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: you interested. Only if this person is ever going to

550
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: get on the shelf because of something thing? What is

551
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: typically a reason why somebody who might have a decent product,

552
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: What is the flag that says, you know what, this

553
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: probably this person is probably not gonna make it to

554
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 1: a shelf. I can tell um, I'm not. That's more

555
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: of a question for a buyer. But what I can

556
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: say are some of the things that a buyer is

557
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: going to need and so they need. You need to

558
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: be able to scale. So if a bvirus says they

559
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: want so the bierus says they need ten thousand units

560
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: in six months, you need to be able to produce

561
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: ten thousand units in six months. And sometimes that means

562
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: you need to finance that inventory. And if you don't

563
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: have financing options, you're not gonna be able to get

564
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: that inventory to them, so you're not gonna get put

565
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: on the shelf. You also have to have the right margins,

566
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: so retailers expect specific margins on products, and if you

567
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: haven't priced your product correctly or your cost of production

568
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 1: is too high, you're not gonna be able to give

569
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: them those margins in order to make it worth the opportunity.

570
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: And then often and then sometimes you will have to

571
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: purchase marketing assets. So those that you see those UM

572
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: inserts in, you know, print materials for the store where

573
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: brands are featured. Sometimes brands have to pay for that

574
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: in order to market and sell the products. So the

575
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: marketing doesn't just stop on your own social you also

576
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: have to market your retailers. So it's gonna be financing

577
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: bandwidth UM and can keep up. Black Tech Green Money

578
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: is a production of Black They Afro Tech on the

579
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 1: Black Effect podcast Network and I Hired Media. He's produced

580
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: by Morgan Dubon and me Well Lucas, with additional production

581
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: support by Love Beach and me Rissa Lewis. Special thank

582
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: you to Michael Davis, Adam Simms, and Sakar Savon Jan

583
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: you know like the Wine, Yes that's his real name.

584
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other tech dirt is

585
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: the innovators at afro tech dot com. The video version

586
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: is episode We'll Drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube,

587
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: so'll tap in. Enjoying black Tech, Green money. Leave us

588
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: a five star rating on iTunes. Go get your money,

589
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: Peace and love,