WEBVTT - Conor Oberst 0:00:15.516 --> 0:00:23.236 Pushkin Today, we're welcoming to the show, Connor Oberst out 0:00:23.236 --> 0:00:25.236 of my interview with Connor, I spent two weeks catching 0:00:25.316 --> 0:00:27.916 up on albums of his that are perennial favorites, or 0:00:27.996 --> 0:00:30.716 albums that I missed, or albums and EPs I just 0:00:30.716 --> 0:00:33.156 haven't heard in a long time, And in that two 0:00:33.156 --> 0:00:36.276 weeks I remember just how wonderful his catalog of music is. 0:00:36.996 --> 0:00:40.036 Often his music gets pegged as being maybe only sad, 0:00:40.276 --> 0:00:43.916 But Connor's music, whether it's with Bright Eyes, Deciparcidos, the 0:00:43.956 --> 0:00:48.316 Mystic Valley Band, Monsters of Folk, Commander Venus, his solo works, 0:00:48.396 --> 0:00:51.516 or his stuff with Phoebe Bridges, is not one dimensional. 0:00:51.876 --> 0:00:57.756 It's dynamic. It's deeply smart, captivating, funny, sometimes biting, and 0:00:57.796 --> 0:01:00.316 because it's a lovely blend of all these things, along 0:01:00.356 --> 0:01:06.076 with yes, sometimes melancholy, it's above all joyful. His catalog 0:01:06.196 --> 0:01:10.156 is also deceptively large, especially when considering it age, which 0:01:10.196 --> 0:01:12.756 overwhelmed me a bit going into this conversation. Where do 0:01:12.796 --> 0:01:14.676 you start with someone who's been making music and writing 0:01:14.716 --> 0:01:17.196 songs at a high level since around nineteen ninety five? 0:01:18.036 --> 0:01:19.836 And I guess the answer is you start at the beginning, 0:01:19.956 --> 0:01:22.996 which is what we did. But I hope longtime fans, 0:01:23.116 --> 0:01:25.316 new fans, and even people who've never given his music 0:01:25.356 --> 0:01:28.076 a shot get a lot out of this episode. Connor's 0:01:28.076 --> 0:01:29.996 a real force in music, and at the risk of 0:01:29.996 --> 0:01:33.076 sounding trite all the way from his earliest records through 0:01:33.076 --> 0:01:36.276 his latest five dices all threes, he's done it his way, 0:01:36.476 --> 0:01:38.956 on his terms, and there's a lot to respect in that. 0:01:41.956 --> 0:01:45.196 This is Broken Record liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:45.356 --> 0:01:53.756 I'm justin Richmond. Here's my conversation with Connor Oberst and 0:01:53.796 --> 0:01:55.916 to see the full video version of this episode, visit 0:01:55.956 --> 0:01:58.956 YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast or click the 0:01:59.036 --> 0:02:03.836 link in the episode description. You spend more time in 0:02:03.956 --> 0:02:06.236 la these days or more in Omaha? 0:02:06.396 --> 0:02:10.196 Or it's probably half and half because we have the 0:02:10.316 --> 0:02:12.996 studio here. I can't see you, but up through my 0:02:13.116 --> 0:02:20.356 backyard there's a fence and Michael Mogus, who's in Bright 0:02:20.396 --> 0:02:23.196 Eyes with me, has his house and his studio there. 0:02:23.276 --> 0:02:26.236 So and how long have you guys had that arrangement? 0:02:27.236 --> 0:02:31.356 Oh? I guess it was like two thousand and six. Okay, yeah, 0:02:31.836 --> 0:02:32.996 almost twenty years. 0:02:33.476 --> 0:02:35.716 What was the first stuff he recorded there? Do you remember? 0:02:37.036 --> 0:02:43.636 Yeah? I think we recorded the tail end of Casadega, 0:02:43.676 --> 0:02:46.316 which was the Bright Eyes recorded. Yeah. 0:02:46.356 --> 0:02:48.916 I came out, I guess the next year two thousand seven. 0:02:49.156 --> 0:02:53.596 Yeah, that's one of my favorite brid Eyes records. Yeah, 0:02:53.956 --> 0:02:55.676 I did see you on that tour though. Actually, now 0:02:55.676 --> 0:02:57.196 that I know that I think about it. 0:02:57.276 --> 0:02:59.716 I was the one we all had like the white 0:02:59.796 --> 0:03:02.596 seats and stuff, and my friend was doing the old 0:03:02.676 --> 0:03:06.796 like hippie projection when we put the little colored water 0:03:06.916 --> 0:03:14.116 and big so yeah, yes, our pseudo psychedelic stuff kind of. 0:03:14.036 --> 0:03:15.596 Felt like, yeah, these guys were up there kind of 0:03:15.636 --> 0:03:18.596 like you know, the Flying Burrito Brothers or something. 0:03:19.356 --> 0:03:20.516 I love that. 0:03:21.276 --> 0:03:25.196 You know, I been a fan of your output since 0:03:25.396 --> 0:03:28.156 I don't know, around two thousand and two, one or 0:03:28.196 --> 0:03:30.596 two or you know, things come out piecemeal and you 0:03:30.636 --> 0:03:33.556 just kind of listen over time. But you know, it 0:03:33.636 --> 0:03:35.236 was interesting to be able to listen to like kind 0:03:35.236 --> 0:03:38.956 of like the whole catalog in one and like you know, 0:03:39.116 --> 0:03:40.476 kind of over the course of like a week and 0:03:40.516 --> 0:03:43.916 a half and kind of like the enormity of it 0:03:43.956 --> 0:03:46.716 was like it slipped by me until until like we 0:03:46.716 --> 0:03:48.516 were about to have this conversation and I was like, 0:03:48.916 --> 0:03:49.516 you know, like. 0:03:49.716 --> 0:03:52.636 Jesus, you know, I'm I'm impressed you got through all. 0:03:54.156 --> 0:03:55.916 I was like, how old is this guy? Again? Like 0:03:56.236 --> 0:03:57.996 how does this like? You know, it's almost like a 0:03:58.036 --> 0:04:00.956 Neil Young left ful of output, Like we're just like 0:04:01.756 --> 0:04:04.836 and it just it escaped me. How do you How 0:04:04.836 --> 0:04:07.676 do you hold that all in your your head these days? 0:04:08.276 --> 0:04:11.636 I mean, it's very much. I wouldn't say it's a 0:04:11.636 --> 0:04:15.436 blur because I have a lot of specific memories over 0:04:15.476 --> 0:04:22.156 the years. But you know, I started touring and presenting 0:04:22.196 --> 0:04:28.796 my music at like age I guess like thirteen or fourteen. Obviously, 0:04:28.836 --> 0:04:31.876 like in high school, I kind of just toured in 0:04:31.916 --> 0:04:35.796 the summer and like when I could, and then I 0:04:35.836 --> 0:04:38.716 went to college for like a year, and so I guess, 0:04:38.956 --> 0:04:43.556 like around fevers and mirrors, I think I was like nineteen, 0:04:43.676 --> 0:04:46.796 and that's when I got kind of quit school and 0:04:47.996 --> 0:04:54.676 music became my full time job and just never stopped. 0:04:54.796 --> 0:05:00.556 So it's I feel lucky to like have the longevity. 0:05:00.956 --> 0:05:06.236 I mean, I've had older musicians sort of you know, 0:05:06.396 --> 0:05:09.996 just tell me that there's always like peaks and valleys 0:05:10.036 --> 0:05:14.476 when it comes to like career things and creativity and 0:05:15.596 --> 0:05:18.676 really the ultimate triumph. 0:05:18.236 --> 0:05:21.156 It's just just still you're. 0:05:21.036 --> 0:05:24.076 Doing it after you know, I'm forty four now and 0:05:25.636 --> 0:05:29.676 played too many shows to even count and made so 0:05:29.836 --> 0:05:35.516 many records of various people. So yeah, it's really it's 0:05:35.516 --> 0:05:38.876 been my entire life. So it's hard to it's hard 0:05:38.916 --> 0:05:44.276 to like know what life would be like without music, 0:05:44.396 --> 0:05:46.676 you know, science Like people have like ask me that 0:05:46.716 --> 0:05:48.636 in the interviews, like if you can play music, what 0:05:48.636 --> 0:05:51.436 would you do, And it's like I have like no idea, 0:05:52.196 --> 0:05:53.676 I have no like skills. 0:05:53.956 --> 0:05:58.276 So after getting to the first couple of Bright Eyes Records, 0:05:58.276 --> 0:06:01.076 I remember somehow, I don't remember how someone earned it 0:06:01.116 --> 0:06:03.076 for me or I founded a record shop like the 0:06:03.356 --> 0:06:06.636 Command of Venus, but the Commander Venus, I didn't know 0:06:06.676 --> 0:06:10.716 you were fifteen, sixteen seventeen in that grip, Yeah, like 0:06:10.796 --> 0:06:11.556 that's crazy. 0:06:12.276 --> 0:06:14.916 Yeah, we made the first record. 0:06:14.956 --> 0:06:19.356 There's like two Commandervenius records, and the first one, yeah, 0:06:19.516 --> 0:06:22.036 I made it like when I was like fourteen, and 0:06:22.436 --> 0:06:25.116 Tim Cashers, like the main guy in Cursive, was in 0:06:25.196 --> 0:06:31.836 that band at first, and it was after Valentine's Day. 0:06:31.876 --> 0:06:34.796 We went to like Target or whatever and bought all 0:06:34.836 --> 0:06:38.756 these heart shaped boxes and then we wrote like love 0:06:38.876 --> 0:06:41.756 letters to the record labels we liked. 0:06:41.956 --> 0:06:45.116 So it was like You're Murdered or My Sweet Mr 0:06:45.356 --> 0:06:48.676 My Sweet Manator or whatever, slipop, whatever we liked at 0:06:48.676 --> 0:06:52.996 the time, and we sent it out. And there was 0:06:53.036 --> 0:06:55.196 a record label long gone but. 0:06:55.316 --> 0:06:58.516 Called Grass Records from New York that put out like 0:06:58.716 --> 0:07:03.276 a lot of great records, Brainiac and the Wrens and yeah, 0:07:03.476 --> 0:07:05.876 just a lot of They put out the spam from 0:07:05.876 --> 0:07:08.036 Omaha called mouse Chaps. That's why they were kind of 0:07:08.076 --> 0:07:11.356 like on our radar. But this woman, Camille, who was 0:07:12.276 --> 0:07:15.356 kind of the an r that signed bands. I remember 0:07:15.396 --> 0:07:20.356 she called my parents' house and it was like a 0:07:20.436 --> 0:07:24.836 landline and my brother was like, Connor, you got a call. 0:07:24.996 --> 0:07:28.956 And I'm like, he's like, this is live on Grass. 0:07:28.956 --> 0:07:31.516 I'm like, oh my god, they like listen to this. 0:07:32.076 --> 0:07:36.316 And she's talking to me and I tell her that 0:07:36.436 --> 0:07:40.356 I'm like a fourteen year old boy, and she just 0:07:40.476 --> 0:07:44.076 like screams because she had thought that I was like 0:07:44.716 --> 0:07:46.556 a twenty year old like female. 0:07:47.676 --> 0:07:48.476 That's hilarious. 0:07:48.516 --> 0:07:49.916 My voice hadn't changed. 0:07:52.276 --> 0:07:52.356 Me. 0:07:53.636 --> 0:07:57.236 Yeah, and that wind ends up being like wind up right. 0:07:57.276 --> 0:07:59.996 At a certain point, which was was kind of blooming mine. 0:08:00.036 --> 0:08:01.996 I was looking at their catalog and it was like 0:08:02.116 --> 0:08:04.836 the same year they put out Your guy's second album 0:08:04.996 --> 0:08:08.876 was like there's a Teddy Pendergrass record, a Doctor John record, 0:08:10.516 --> 0:08:13.396 a record from the Wrens, like you mentioned their own grass, 0:08:13.396 --> 0:08:15.516 and then and then a Creed Like Creed's first record 0:08:15.516 --> 0:08:17.756 came out like a month after your guys second record. 0:08:17.796 --> 0:08:21.756 It's like, yeah, those like this guy, Alan Meltzer, who 0:08:21.796 --> 0:08:26.036 was just a really rich guy, bought the label, bought 0:08:26.076 --> 0:08:29.676 Grass and then like basically like got rid of most 0:08:29.796 --> 0:08:32.956 of the bands and and then obviously took it in 0:08:32.956 --> 0:08:35.996 a total different direction. But he was always very sweet 0:08:35.996 --> 0:08:38.796 to me. He's passed away now, but I remember him 0:08:38.836 --> 0:08:42.876 showing me Creed. And his wife was very eccentric as well, 0:08:43.596 --> 0:08:48.396 and they're just super New York. He was like very overweight, 0:08:48.556 --> 0:08:51.436 stout man, and then his wife was like a you 0:08:51.436 --> 0:08:55.356 know model from the seventies that was still like antarexic. 0:08:55.516 --> 0:08:58.476 They were just very crazy to look at, but they 0:08:58.476 --> 0:09:00.316 would like fly me out. They flew me and my 0:09:00.356 --> 0:09:04.156 girlfriend out there to New York for like my eighteenth birthday. Anyway, 0:09:04.156 --> 0:09:05.996 they were sweet, but I remember them showing me Creed 0:09:06.076 --> 0:09:08.356 before it even came out, and I was like, I 0:09:08.396 --> 0:09:13.156 really liked them, and I was like, you guys, sounds 0:09:13.196 --> 0:09:17.476 like a really bad pearl jam and I don't I 0:09:17.476 --> 0:09:20.516 don't think it's not, you know, And like the lady 0:09:20.636 --> 0:09:23.636 was like Diane and she was like, you know, he's 0:09:23.636 --> 0:09:24.676 like Jim Morrison. 0:09:24.796 --> 0:09:26.556 You know, he's like new Jim Morrison. 0:09:28.236 --> 0:09:31.596 I was the guys. And then sure enough they put 0:09:31.596 --> 0:09:33.436 it out and it's like the biggest thing in the world. 0:09:33.516 --> 0:09:37.676 So another reason not to ever you know, trust my rush. 0:09:39.396 --> 0:09:41.916 Maybe maybe not your commercial judgment, but but your ears 0:09:41.916 --> 0:09:43.436 were kind of spot on and they were kind of 0:09:43.516 --> 0:09:47.476 like exactly like a bad birl jam. But funny to 0:09:47.516 --> 0:09:50.116 imagine I bet yeah, probably Scott Staff was probably telling 0:09:50.116 --> 0:09:55.476 her the news. Yeah, I imagine. 0:09:55.716 --> 0:10:00.396 You know, yeah, I remember like on that trip, you know, 0:10:01.476 --> 0:10:03.796 just like I mean, I've been to New York, but 0:10:03.836 --> 0:10:07.316 it was still like you know, my aging birthdayn with 0:10:07.316 --> 0:10:09.556 my girlfriend. They were like they would like drive around 0:10:09.676 --> 0:10:13.836 like limousines like smoking weed and stuff, and like, I 0:10:13.836 --> 0:10:17.276 don't know, it was very it was a surreal little 0:10:17.636 --> 0:10:19.116 period of time there. 0:10:19.636 --> 0:10:21.276 Where was your head at I mean, I guess maybe 0:10:21.276 --> 0:10:24.116 even specifically on that trip, like eighteen flown to New 0:10:24.196 --> 0:10:27.516 York on a rep you know, on a label that 0:10:27.596 --> 0:10:30.476 could actually fly in New York and driving around in 0:10:30.476 --> 0:10:32.676 a limit. I mean, like, what were your thoughts at 0:10:32.716 --> 0:10:33.156 that time? 0:10:33.876 --> 0:10:34.396 I mean. 0:10:35.756 --> 0:10:39.116 We, like my group of friends and all the bands 0:10:39.156 --> 0:10:43.076 like that were associated with Saddle Creek. It was like 0:10:43.116 --> 0:10:45.116 all this was kind of happening at once, Like we 0:10:45.196 --> 0:10:48.996 had started Saddle Creek and like we had the first 0:10:49.036 --> 0:10:52.396 record came out on that and we were all trying 0:10:52.476 --> 0:10:55.516 to you know, support each other and had this like 0:10:55.636 --> 0:11:00.236 little scene. But then we also realized like, oh we 0:11:00.236 --> 0:11:02.636 we maybe we should get on real labels, was like 0:11:02.676 --> 0:11:05.996 the thinking. So some of the bands started signing to 0:11:06.036 --> 0:11:09.956 other labels, and then eventually we kind of like sort of, 0:11:10.276 --> 0:11:13.396 I guess shortly after that, came back together and decided 0:11:13.516 --> 0:11:16.716 just to like really put out our own records. Like 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:21.036 I'm mostly I'm talking about right Eyes, Cursive with Faint, 0:11:22.236 --> 0:11:23.716 they were kind of we were that was kind of 0:11:23.716 --> 0:11:27.436 the big three bands, and and then yeah, it just 0:11:27.436 --> 0:11:31.356 got weird, like we just we you know, we grew up. 0:11:31.396 --> 0:11:33.756 Like there was a record store here called the Antiquarium, 0:11:33.876 --> 0:11:36.476 and it was like like right out of the movies, 0:11:36.556 --> 0:11:39.796 like you know, the old guys smoking cigarettes behind the desk, 0:11:39.876 --> 0:11:42.436 like making fun of what you're trying to buy. You know, 0:11:43.236 --> 0:11:47.436 it's so like militant like punk rock, indie rock, and 0:11:47.476 --> 0:11:49.876 so you know, we love Discord and we were like 0:11:49.916 --> 0:11:53.156 trying to like fight the power and stuff and get 0:11:53.276 --> 0:11:54.076 to do it on our own. 0:11:54.156 --> 0:11:57.236 So I actually all that stuff with like Grass and 0:11:57.276 --> 0:11:57.716 wind Up. 0:11:57.756 --> 0:11:59.956 I was kind of like it's like I was almost 0:11:59.996 --> 0:12:03.276 like I was enjoying it in the sense of like 0:12:03.316 --> 0:12:07.836 observing this is crazy, but I was, you know, a 0:12:07.836 --> 0:12:11.196 little like too cool for cool, you know, like and 0:12:11.236 --> 0:12:12.356 that was our vibe. 0:12:12.476 --> 0:12:13.636 Like all of our friends. 0:12:13.676 --> 0:12:16.316 We were like, I don't know, we just thought we 0:12:16.316 --> 0:12:19.316 were like such bad asss and we're like change in 0:12:19.316 --> 0:12:23.796 the world, like make you know, like little little engine 0:12:23.836 --> 0:12:26.316 that could from Nebraska and all that stuff. 0:12:26.356 --> 0:12:28.396 So I mean, you kind of not wrong thom. You 0:12:28.436 --> 0:12:30.836 guys did have a pretty strong scene going. I mean 0:12:30.836 --> 0:12:34.996 think about those three, I mean the Fing and Cursive 0:12:35.236 --> 0:12:37.756 and Bright Eyes, and you know it's like that's a 0:12:37.796 --> 0:12:41.596 pretty that's a pretty strong core you know as a ray, 0:12:41.716 --> 0:12:43.396 and you can just kind of on and on. You're like, wow, 0:12:43.396 --> 0:12:44.876 it's like a whole yeah. 0:12:45.636 --> 0:12:48.956 Yeah. And like the you know, the bands didn't really 0:12:49.036 --> 0:12:51.716 sound like each other, which I think is interesting. Was 0:12:51.756 --> 0:12:55.636 a lot of like scenes, you know, from certain areas 0:12:55.636 --> 0:12:58.876 like North Carolina or Washington, DC. You know, there's like 0:12:58.956 --> 0:13:02.116 a vibe they like hold music together. But I felt 0:13:02.116 --> 0:13:05.076 like what held us together was just that we were 0:13:05.116 --> 0:13:09.036 all like friends, and we all were like we all 0:13:09.156 --> 0:13:13.076 realized at an early age, like you know, the whatever 0:13:13.276 --> 0:13:17.476 DIY stuff was like that wasn't really a choice. We 0:13:17.956 --> 0:13:20.676 you know, we knew that no one was gonna like 0:13:20.716 --> 0:13:24.436 come find us, you know, so we like gotten bands 0:13:24.476 --> 0:13:28.196 and dull everywhere and played you know, living rooms and 0:13:28.236 --> 0:13:31.716 basements and all this like back when like you know, 0:13:31.876 --> 0:13:35.796 south By still mattered and like, uh, what was the 0:13:35.836 --> 0:13:39.156 one the college music the CNJ Festival in New York 0:13:39.316 --> 0:13:41.796 all that stuff, Like, I mean it was we're talking 0:13:41.996 --> 0:13:44.596 the nineties here, yeah, long ago. 0:13:45.076 --> 0:13:46.996 How were you aware of all, like the sort of industry. 0:13:47.916 --> 0:13:50.396 Was it just through reading magazines or like how did 0:13:50.436 --> 0:13:52.356 you know where to go to kind of be seen? 0:13:53.996 --> 0:13:59.236 I guess like we were big fans of music, so 0:13:59.276 --> 0:14:02.236 it was always kind of like those labels I was 0:14:02.276 --> 0:14:04.316 mentioning before, you. 0:14:04.276 --> 0:14:07.076 Know, we listened to all those records, so I was like, oh, 0:14:08.036 --> 0:14:11.116 I don't know, like Spoon's playing this thing, like it 0:14:11.196 --> 0:14:13.796 must be cool we got to try to play that 0:14:13.996 --> 0:14:16.556 or you know, like so it was mostly just like 0:14:16.916 --> 0:14:19.356 kind of network. And then once we started traveling, like 0:14:19.436 --> 0:14:23.076 you meet just a lot of musicians in different cities 0:14:23.116 --> 0:14:25.516 and so, I mean for a long time we kind 0:14:25.556 --> 0:14:30.636 of booked our own things, and it was like easier 0:14:30.756 --> 0:14:32.596 back then. And even though it seems like it'll be 0:14:32.636 --> 0:14:34.716 easier now with the Internet, it was actually I think 0:14:34.756 --> 0:14:39.596 easier for us because there wasn't as much things happening, 0:14:39.676 --> 0:14:42.756 or at least you didn't know about it, and you know, 0:14:42.836 --> 0:14:46.236 you could like if there was like a cool like 0:14:46.636 --> 0:14:49.836 you know, punk rock venue in some city, you could 0:14:49.876 --> 0:14:54.676 like send a cassette tape or send a CD and 0:14:54.716 --> 0:14:58.156 like someone would actually like listen to it and call 0:14:58.196 --> 0:15:00.796 you back and be you know, a lot of word 0:15:00.836 --> 0:15:04.316 of mouth basically. And then eventually we got you know, 0:15:04.916 --> 0:15:08.836 real booking agents, and then that kind of changed everything 0:15:08.836 --> 0:15:12.156 because then you're playing clubs and you have guarantees and 0:15:12.756 --> 0:15:14.956 you're on you know, real tour. 0:15:15.436 --> 0:15:18.956 So yeah, we were talking about like the mense amount 0:15:18.996 --> 0:15:21.236 of kind of stuff you've done over the years. In hindsight, 0:15:21.436 --> 0:15:23.556 do you think having Saddle Creek as kind of like 0:15:23.556 --> 0:15:26.116 a home base this kind of independent thing that you know, 0:15:26.196 --> 0:15:29.956 you guys sort of all created. Was that to your 0:15:29.996 --> 0:15:32.436 benefit over the years, like being able to work with 0:15:32.956 --> 0:15:34.356 independently as long as you did. 0:15:35.196 --> 0:15:40.996 Yeah, I mean I think that that kind of those 0:15:41.116 --> 0:15:45.276 kind of golden years. I would say, between like yeah, 0:15:44.996 --> 0:15:51.196 you know, nineteen ninety nine up through probably like Sadega 0:15:51.276 --> 0:15:54.556 and stuff, it was like everyone was unified and it 0:15:54.596 --> 0:16:00.356 really felt like a collective and then, like anything money 0:16:00.396 --> 0:16:04.636 and personality, the label kind of ended up belonging to 0:16:05.036 --> 0:16:07.796 like this guy Rob Nansel who was in He was 0:16:07.836 --> 0:16:11.036 actually in Communityvens, but he was kind of the one 0:16:11.036 --> 0:16:15.516 that was like organized in business minded and the rest 0:16:15.516 --> 0:16:18.476 of us were just more into making the music. So 0:16:19.516 --> 0:16:23.836 at a certain point it started to feel like didn't 0:16:23.876 --> 0:16:25.756 belong to all of us anymore. And I think that's 0:16:25.756 --> 0:16:29.276 when things started to fray. Like I made my first 0:16:29.316 --> 0:16:32.196 solo record like on Merge because I was kind of like, 0:16:33.116 --> 0:16:36.036 I don't know, I just didn't feel like connected to it, 0:16:36.796 --> 0:16:40.316 and then been on a lot of other labels since 0:16:40.716 --> 0:16:44.876 with different projects, and you know, I mean I fondly 0:16:44.876 --> 0:16:47.436 looked back at those times, but I mean, who's who's 0:16:47.516 --> 0:16:49.676 to say, but I think that we missed out on 0:16:49.716 --> 0:16:55.756 some opportunities again because we were so like militantly independent, 0:16:56.516 --> 0:17:00.236 like I remember the past of like tons of money, 0:17:01.076 --> 0:17:03.476 and they were like primed to be because they were 0:17:03.476 --> 0:17:08.436 a little ahead of the dancing chronic dance like before 0:17:08.476 --> 0:17:11.636 a killer and floor like, oh, it's like a lot 0:17:11.636 --> 0:17:14.596 of that stuff. It got really huge and and they 0:17:14.756 --> 0:17:17.396 like said no that these major labels to stay on 0:17:17.436 --> 0:17:21.476 the our label, and same with me, and same with 0:17:22.556 --> 0:17:26.436 same with Cursive to certain degrees. So maybe we made 0:17:26.436 --> 0:17:28.916 a mistake. Maybe we should have like struck while the 0:17:28.956 --> 0:17:33.236 iron was hot. You know, that's all hindsight now. 0:17:33.756 --> 0:17:36.636 I remember talking to Rick Rubin one time and like 0:17:36.876 --> 0:17:38.436 basically talking. We were talking about the Faint and how 0:17:38.476 --> 0:17:39.876 much we love the Faint, and he was like, I 0:17:39.996 --> 0:17:42.156 tried to sign the Faint. Yea. I was kind of 0:17:42.156 --> 0:17:43.756 I remember it, just being kind of shocked by that, 0:17:43.796 --> 0:17:45.516 you know, because I do, like remember, I mean, listening 0:17:45.556 --> 0:17:47.756 to them when they're out. It was like I didn't 0:17:47.956 --> 0:17:51.236 assume anyone I was listening to was on any major 0:17:51.276 --> 0:17:53.636 labels radar or I mean, I guess it wasn't like 0:17:53.636 --> 0:17:56.316 a major major, but you had like major distribution, et cetera. 0:17:56.396 --> 0:17:58.916 You know, So It's just kind of wild to hear that. 0:17:58.956 --> 0:18:00.996 Even at that time I was you know, it was 0:18:01.076 --> 0:18:03.676 new and everyone was listening to it in the underground records. 0:18:03.716 --> 0:18:05.676 It was like, oh shit, this was on the radar 0:18:05.756 --> 0:18:08.996 of like other other people were trying to swoop in, 0:18:09.236 --> 0:18:10.636 you know. Yeah. 0:18:11.076 --> 0:18:11.316 Yeah. 0:18:11.436 --> 0:18:15.236 Rick's always been super cool, so he like actually when 0:18:15.876 --> 0:18:18.996 I was making we were making Castle Deega, I was 0:18:18.996 --> 0:18:19.476 in La. 0:18:19.796 --> 0:18:22.556 It's like before I lived there, but yeah, he. 0:18:22.596 --> 0:18:24.876 Like did the send me send a car down to 0:18:25.076 --> 0:18:28.636 LA and I went up to Malau House and like, 0:18:28.836 --> 0:18:31.116 you know, did the whole thing, like playing him songs 0:18:31.116 --> 0:18:34.596 on acoustic guitar. And obviously we didn't end up working 0:18:34.636 --> 0:18:37.796 with him, but I remember I was like, we had 0:18:37.796 --> 0:18:40.116 a lot of songs recorded, and he actually helped pick 0:18:40.156 --> 0:18:42.436 the ones that were gonna that we're gonna be on Castadaga. 0:18:42.516 --> 0:18:44.956 I was like really yeah, I was like right, like 0:18:45.076 --> 0:18:46.996 what you know, it's it's Rick Rubin. I was like, 0:18:47.436 --> 0:18:49.956 what do you think the songs? So he actually did 0:18:50.036 --> 0:18:53.156 like help pick songs for that record, which is I 0:18:53.156 --> 0:18:56.036 hadn't thought about that till now. But and then he's 0:18:56.076 --> 0:18:59.636 always been really cool, Like when I did some solo records, 0:18:59.676 --> 0:19:03.356 at Shangri La and when Nah, actually we made the 0:19:03.356 --> 0:19:06.476 Monsters at Shango Lad before he owned it. But then 0:19:06.516 --> 0:19:09.996 I went back solo record and he cut me a 0:19:10.036 --> 0:19:11.476 good deal and it's very sweet. 0:19:12.516 --> 0:19:15.836 Yeah, yeah, very nice about that. Very nice about that. 0:19:17.636 --> 0:19:20.036 Was that around because I remember going to see you 0:19:20.116 --> 0:19:22.956 right after a Wide Awake Its Morning came out and 0:19:22.996 --> 0:19:25.396 it was like the vibe was you know, going to 0:19:25.436 --> 0:19:28.196 see Bright Eyes before that was like is everyone was 0:19:28.236 --> 0:19:30.836 like my age at the time or maybe a little older, 0:19:31.116 --> 0:19:32.556 and then going there it was like there was like 0:19:32.636 --> 0:19:34.676 sixty year old dudes and I was like, what the 0:19:34.716 --> 0:19:37.996 fuck is this? You know, so I have to imagine 0:19:37.996 --> 0:19:39.236 it is maybe and you were like on the cover 0:19:39.356 --> 0:19:41.756 Rolling Stone, I think if I remember correctly. 0:19:41.476 --> 0:19:47.276 Like it was, Yeah, that whole time with that record 0:19:47.476 --> 0:19:49.716 was you know that was obviously like the kind of 0:19:49.756 --> 0:19:51.196 commercial peak too. 0:19:52.236 --> 0:19:52.796 I guess my. 0:19:53.156 --> 0:19:57.916 Music in general. I learned a lot about kind of 0:19:57.956 --> 0:20:01.356 the way the real industry worked. And yeah, we were 0:20:02.156 --> 0:20:06.316 every label was trying to sign us, and yeah, it 0:20:06.356 --> 0:20:09.676 was like I remember the kind of fun thing is 0:20:09.676 --> 0:20:11.476 we you know, we put out those two records on 0:20:11.516 --> 0:20:14.196 the same day, so we went on the Wide Away 0:20:14.276 --> 0:20:17.116 tour first playing all the songs and it was like, 0:20:17.996 --> 0:20:19.996 you know, it felt like the Beatles or something, and 0:20:20.036 --> 0:20:22.956 we'd walk out on stage and be like like flash 0:20:22.996 --> 0:20:29.116 flash flash flash flash craziness, and then like like you know, 0:20:29.596 --> 0:20:32.036 six months later, we come back to these towns and 0:20:32.116 --> 0:20:35.436 like I remember, in between those tours, there wasn't a 0:20:35.476 --> 0:20:37.836 lot of time, and the thing became our band for 0:20:38.076 --> 0:20:41.316 the Digital Ash shit, and I remember I took all 0:20:41.316 --> 0:20:44.276 the clothes I had and threw them into a bucket, 0:20:44.556 --> 0:20:46.716 and the pose one of the guys in the faint 0:20:46.756 --> 0:20:48.276 helped me, like die them all black. 0:20:48.996 --> 0:20:52.556 Okay, there you go, so all my clothes are black. 0:20:53.356 --> 0:20:54.236 And we went and. 0:20:54.236 --> 0:20:57.156 Just basically played I mean, we should have been smarter 0:20:57.276 --> 0:20:59.676 and like played songs from Bulls, but we were like, 0:20:59.756 --> 0:21:02.156 this is this tour, this is this tour. So we 0:21:02.276 --> 0:21:05.156 go back and people don't know, they're expecting us to 0:21:05.196 --> 0:21:07.996 play the Wide Awake stuff, and man we had some 0:21:08.156 --> 0:21:13.476 upset yeah, ticket ticket fires like. 0:21:13.916 --> 0:21:17.476 The Digital Ash. So yeah, I don't know, was. 0:21:17.476 --> 0:21:19.716 That the like did people feel more strongly about IM 0:21:19.716 --> 0:21:21.116 Wide Awake than a Digital Ash? 0:21:21.396 --> 0:21:24.996 Oh? Yeah, I mean as far as the general I mean, 0:21:25.516 --> 0:21:29.196 that was the only record I feel like when we 0:21:29.236 --> 0:21:31.556 put well maybe lifted, but when we put it out, 0:21:31.636 --> 0:21:35.876 it was like I would consider like well received, you know. 0:21:35.996 --> 0:21:36.956 Like everywhere. 0:21:37.396 --> 0:21:40.116 Yeah, it's like all of our pretty much all my 0:21:40.196 --> 0:21:46.196 other records. It seems like even to my fans, like 0:21:47.076 --> 0:21:51.356 you know, make these records and it's like ten years 0:21:51.436 --> 0:21:55.476 later people are like, oh my god, I love like 0:21:56.356 --> 0:21:59.556 Upside Down Mountains, like one of my solo records. I'm like, man, 0:22:00.756 --> 0:22:02.996 no one seemed to care when it came out, and 0:22:03.236 --> 0:22:05.396 same with like, I mean a lot of those records. 0:22:05.396 --> 0:22:08.836 That's like this delayed effect to even like the fan base. 0:22:09.716 --> 0:22:13.036 I'll say, I'll be one hundred percent honest, I did 0:22:13.076 --> 0:22:17.396 not ever know about Upside Down Mountain or listen to 0:22:17.436 --> 0:22:22.156