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Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness.

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Speaker 2: Short and Tony Rich and Jeff got a shriff's office.

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Speaker 2: I'm at the Sheriff's office headquarters along with Yorlanda Michelle Chambers.

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Speaker 3: Yolanda was reluctant. She didn't want to talk. Okay, now,

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Speaker 3: you mentioned to me that you heard what you thought

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Speaker 3: was three shots.

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Speaker 4: But when we heard that, we were like, we know

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Speaker 4: what it was.

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Speaker 3: We had to keep at her and we had to pull.

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Speaker 5: Like polite Carlo jumping man's gold.

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Speaker 4: It's cold.

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Speaker 2: It's cold, you know, Yelanda, we need this, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: we'd have to be stern, you know, and firm trying

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Speaker 2: to shake her.

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Speaker 6: You know, did he have anything on his hand that

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Speaker 6: you told me?

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Speaker 4: Blood? Blood?

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Speaker 3: Sometimes we'd have to be soft.

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Speaker 4: What you have already told me during the times that

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Speaker 4: I have interviewed you, is that the truth?

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Speaker 3: Whatever were to get this information out of her, No,

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Speaker 3: it's not the truth.

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Speaker 7: No.

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Speaker 4: So what she's saying she would live and I would live.

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Speaker 3: That's a life.

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Speaker 4: That's a that's a shame.

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Speaker 2: I believe everything Lena told me, No, Helma, Helna. But

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Speaker 2: Yolanda told a lot of truth. Why she was trying

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Speaker 2: to hide it by telling lies.

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Speaker 1: What did it say again?

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Speaker 2: Aia a Foura Ivan Oak Street up a dirt road

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Speaker 2: toward the beginning of the Power of Arms.

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Speaker 1: My producer Marra and I are in Bessemer, a suburb

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Speaker 1: west of Birmingham. This back road is remote, no houses

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Speaker 1: or businesses nearby, just undeveloped land stretching under a bright

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Speaker 1: blue sky.

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Speaker 3: I bet it was this.

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Speaker 1: There's a dirt path underneath a stretch of power lines

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Speaker 1: that cuts through dense, overgrown shrubbery. I wonder if she

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Speaker 1: how far down the dirt road she was.

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Speaker 5: Oh, it was kind of pretty back here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing remarkable about this spot. It's a place

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Speaker 1: you'd drive past and not even notice. But this is

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Speaker 1: where on Valentine's Day of two thousand and nine, some

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Speaker 1: people writing four wheelers found the body of Yolanda Chambers.

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Speaker 1: I'm still not really sure why I wanted to come

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Speaker 1: here or what I was hoping to learn. I just

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Speaker 1: felt like I needed to see it. There are no

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Speaker 1: clues here about what happened to Yolanda Chambers, why she

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Speaker 1: was killed, or who did it. After the investigation into

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Speaker 1: Deputy Bill Hardy's murder ended, Yolanda would continue to work

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Speaker 1: with police as an informant, and that ongoing contact with

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Speaker 1: law enforcement may have contributed to her murder.

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Speaker 5: Do you he my man.

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Speaker 8: Lab Hads, my Fy Sousa in this.

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Speaker 5: O tears? I want to.

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Speaker 8: See a reblation.

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Speaker 5: I want to know who you am reation in this

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Speaker 5: inspiration to the word who's holding stup udo, who's holding stand?

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Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter three, Police Girl.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to talk about Yolanda.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: I've talked to Detective Tony Richardson for over seven hours

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Speaker 1: about this case, and he uses a certain adjective to

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Speaker 1: describe Yolanda Chambers over and over again.

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Speaker 3: She was street small, you remember, I say Yolanda was

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Speaker 3: very street wise, street wise.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you, if you ever met her fifteen years old,

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Speaker 2: she knew more about the street than I did.

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Speaker 1: The Dictionary definition of street smart or street wise is

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Speaker 1: a shrewd awareness of how to survive based on living

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Speaker 1: a difficult life. But Yolanda was just fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: Detective Tony Richardson questioned Yolanda at least twenty five times

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Speaker 1: when he led the investigation into Deputy Harty's murder. Most

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Speaker 1: key witnesses and murder investigations are questioned a few times,

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Speaker 1: but twenty five that many police interviews is almost unheard of.

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Speaker 1: And throughout these interviews, Yolanda changed her story about the

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Speaker 1: night of the murder hundreds of times. Research shows that

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Speaker 1: child witnesses are more easily influenced by police intimidation than adults,

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Speaker 1: and children entangled in criminal cases also face more adverse

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Speaker 1: psychological consequences. But knowing all this, I still wondered what

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Speaker 1: exactly was going on that made Yolanda change her story

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Speaker 1: so many times. Do you get nervous, like knocking on

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Speaker 1: somebody's door unannounced?

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Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, just because I don't want to

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Speaker 2: like freak people out.

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Speaker 6: I know that I wouldn't feel weird.

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Speaker 1: Marra and I went on a drive searching for the

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Speaker 1: one person we knew of who could give us a

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Speaker 1: fuller picture of Yolanda Chambers life, someone who has never

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Speaker 1: spoken publicly about this case, the person who got Yolanda

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Speaker 1: involved with police in the first place.

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Speaker 9: Hey, we're looking for miss Rosa Hardy her mom.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk to you for just a second.

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Speaker 10: My name is Beth, I'm a journalist and this is Mara,

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Speaker 10: and we're working on a project about Deputy Bill Hardy,

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Speaker 10: and we're hoping to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: We pull up to a low rise apartment complex in Huntsville,

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Speaker 1: two hours north of Birmingham. Outside the first floor apartment,

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Speaker 1: we see big pots of alo vera plants and leafy

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Speaker 1: elephant ears. The front door is open, and through the

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Speaker 1: screen door we see a woman wearing a blue dress

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Speaker 1: sitting on an overstuffed leather couch, almost like she's waiting

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Speaker 1: for us to arrive.

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Speaker 4: Hey, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to just show up unannounced, but we didn't have.

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Speaker 4: A known er. I understand because when that happened, I

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Speaker 4: was living in Birmingham, and since then I lived in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 11: Forgive me.

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Speaker 12: You're welcome.

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Speaker 1: Rosa lets us into her tidy apartment. There's a painted

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Speaker 1: wooden sign on the wall that says there is always, always,

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Speaker 1: always something to be thankful for, and a paper program

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Speaker 1: from Yolanda's funeral sits on the coffee table next to

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Speaker 1: framed family photos. Well, I appreciate you letting us in,

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Speaker 1: just a showing up unannounced, but we're, like I said,

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Speaker 1: working on a project about Deputy Bill Hardy's murder, and

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Speaker 1: so we were just reaching out to people that knew

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Speaker 1: him and wondered, you know, if you could share anything

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Speaker 1: about him that you knew. Y'all's relationship, well, I met

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Speaker 1: him through his wife, Diane. Even though Rosa and Deputy

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Speaker 1: Bill Hardy share a last name, they aren't related. Patricia

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Speaker 1: Diane Hardy is Bill Hardy's widow. Rosa sometimes refers to

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Speaker 1: her as pat but mostly calls her Diane.

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Speaker 4: Anne and all of us we grew up together in

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Speaker 4: Selma because her mom used to do our hair. My

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Speaker 4: mother had three girls and three boys, and her mother,

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Speaker 4: Miss Belly, she did our hair every two weeks, so

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Speaker 4: we were friends.

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Speaker 1: Rosa and Patricia both eventually moved to Birmingham, where Patricia

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Speaker 1: marries Bill Hardy and they all remain close friends.

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Speaker 4: I and I talked all the time on the phone,

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Speaker 4: but after that happened and Yolando was involved, she kind

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Speaker 4: of shout away from me, I don't know why you know?

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Speaker 1: And then how did your daughter get wrapped up?

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Speaker 3: Okay the case, let me tell you what happened.

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Speaker 4: I gotta tell you everything because I'm not a liar,

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Speaker 4: so I gotta tell you the truth.

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Speaker 1: Rosa begins by going way back to the first time

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Speaker 1: she and Yolanda were separated, when Rosa was arrested and

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Speaker 1: charged with drug possession.

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Speaker 4: And I ended up catching a case going It took.

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Speaker 1: While Julia Touttweiler Prison for Women is the only maximum

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Speaker 1: security women's prison in Alabama. Rosa pleaded guilty and was

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Speaker 1: sent there for three years. During this time, eight year

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Speaker 1: old Yolanda went to live with Rosa's mother and Selma.

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Speaker 1: When Rosa was released in nineteen ninety one, Yolanda told

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Speaker 1: her that she'd been sexually abused by a neighbor.

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Speaker 4: She said, this guy there used to molest her. My

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Speaker 4: mom would have him to come over and help her

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Speaker 4: with her homework, and he molested her. So when I

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Speaker 4: got back mentally, she was all messed up.

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Speaker 1: Yolanda was twelve years old, and.

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Speaker 4: It was a rock between a hard place because my

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Speaker 4: mother said it didn't happen. But I told my mother

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Speaker 4: these exact words. I said, I wasn't there to protect

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Speaker 4: my daughter, and if she told me something happened to her,

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Speaker 4: I believe it. But then after that, you know, she

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Speaker 4: would run away from me A lot after I came

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Speaker 4: home from prison. She would run away and I ended

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Speaker 4: up letting mistake at her because I was nervous about

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Speaker 4: it when she ended up in Falster tear and when

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Speaker 4: she would go to Falster caere she will run away.

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Speaker 1: When she's fourteen years old, Yolanda is hospitalized after attempting

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Speaker 1: suicide and receives a few months of counseling, and then

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Speaker 1: the next year, when she's fifteen years old, Yolanda officially

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Speaker 1: becomes a ward of the state, living full time and

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Speaker 1: foster care and group homes. The state is supposed to

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Speaker 1: be in charge of her care, but according to an

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Speaker 1: assessment ordered by a county social worker, they don't know

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Speaker 1: where she is for several months that summer. On the

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Speaker 1: night of Hardy's murder, Yolanda is staying with a friend

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Speaker 1: at the apartment where to Forrest Johnson and ardregas Ford

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Speaker 1: pick her up around two in the morning. A few

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Speaker 1: hours later, police stop them at the Super eight motel

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Speaker 1: and tell them they're looking into the murder of a

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Speaker 1: police officer.

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Speaker 4: So when I talked to her the next day, I

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Speaker 4: was employed at Adamson Ford.

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Speaker 3: I was the receptionist there.

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Speaker 1: When Rosa gets to work that day, she reads in

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Speaker 1: the newspaper that their family friend, Deputy Bill Hardy, has

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Speaker 1: been shot and killed. A little while later, she gets

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Speaker 1: a call from Yolanda, so you know, last.

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Speaker 4: Night someone killed Bill over at the hotel because he

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Speaker 4: was moonlight and over there, and leads for her exact words,

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Speaker 4: she's a mommy, I know who did? I say?

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Speaker 3: You do?

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Speaker 1: Rosa says. Yolanda didn't give her names. But after the call,

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Speaker 1: Rosa tells a police officer that her daughter has information

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Speaker 1: about the murder.

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Speaker 4: Because I just felt like I owed that to you know,

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Speaker 4: like I say, we were good friends. We weren't strangers,

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Speaker 4: and we grew up together in Sell and I just

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Speaker 4: felt like, you know, I should have. I was supposed

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Speaker 4: to let somebody know.

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Speaker 1: Sometime after talking with police, Rosa hires an attorney to

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Speaker 1: pursue the twenty thousand dollars in reward money.

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Speaker 3: Was she ever.

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Speaker 4: Compensated for them? No, And I thought that after I

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Speaker 4: had told them, because they did say, you know, there

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Speaker 4: was some compensation.

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Speaker 3: They never did give me nothing.

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Speaker 1: Law enforcement rewards are set up to entice people in

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Speaker 1: tough financial situations, people like Rosa and Yolanda. Police say

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Speaker 1: rewards are necessary to penetrate the culture of silence and

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Speaker 1: communities impacted by crime, but they can also be a

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Speaker 1: means to manipulate because it's up to police to decide

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Speaker 1: whether the information is valuable enough to merit the reward.

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Speaker 1: That means detectives can dangle the money while they work

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Speaker 1: with witnesses, but then choose to never pay it. To

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Speaker 1: state the obvious, Yolanda is extremely vulnerable when detectives first

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Speaker 1: bring her in for questioning. In a clinical analysis she

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Speaker 1: underwent that year, a psychologist wrote that Yolanda was friendly

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Speaker 1: and outgoing, but could also be verbally aggressive and manipulative.

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Speaker 1: She also observed that Yolanda was attention seeking, especially with men.

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Speaker 1: For over a year, detectives question Yolanda at different foster

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Speaker 1: homes and shelters, sometimes pulling her out of class, a

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Speaker 1: pattern that frustrated Yolanda because she was trying to get

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Speaker 1: her ged. It seems like police were really relentless with her.

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Speaker 4: They were, they were, and she would call me each

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Speaker 4: day when she would be away. She said, Mama, they

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Speaker 4: coming again today. I said for what she said, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, Mama. Do you think that they pressured her?

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Speaker 4: Sure they did, Sure they did. What you got for

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Speaker 4: is You've got to tell us something. I remember saying that.

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Speaker 4: She just told me, Mama, you shouldn't even say in anything.

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Speaker 4: Those were her words all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yolanda's statements about the night Deputy Hardy was murdered lead

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Speaker 1: to four people charged with capital murder, including to Forrest

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Speaker 1: Johnson and ardregas Ford. But because Yolanda keeps changing her story,

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Speaker 1: in the fall of nineteen ninety six, ardregas Ford's attorney,

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Speaker 1: Richard Jaffey asks for a hearing. He wants to examine

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Speaker 1: Yolanda's testimony and competency as a witness. The transcript from

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Speaker 1: this hearing is extraordinary, so we asked actors to read

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Speaker 1: for Judge Alfred Bayhackle and Yolanda Chambers. Richard Jaffey agreed

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Speaker 1: to read his own words. The hearing begins, Yolanda takes

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Speaker 1: the stand and is sworn in. Richard Jaffey starts by

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Speaker 1: asking her why she keeps changing her story.

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Speaker 13: Were you there at the Crown Starling, No, sir, you

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Speaker 13: were not there. No, sir, what made you change your

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Speaker 13: mind and say and lie and say you were there?

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Speaker 7: Because the pressure they was telling me, you know, don't

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Speaker 7: you know you can go to jail for this, and

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Speaker 7: that's all I was thinking. That's all I had on

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Speaker 7: my mind. Jail. I don't want to go, and you know,

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Speaker 7: they was just telling me, you know you was there.

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Speaker 7: You know we can find out evidence that she was there,

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Speaker 7: and just all the pressure that was put on me.

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Speaker 7: So after they was putting all the pressure on me,

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Speaker 7: I went on and said I was there. I said,

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Speaker 7: maybe if I go on and say I was there,

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Speaker 7: maybe all the threats and everything will end about me

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Speaker 7: going to jail as a juvenile.

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Speaker 1: At this point in time, Yolanda has testified in front

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Speaker 1: of the grand jury and at multiple pre trial hearings.

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Speaker 1: She has also missed one important court date. Judge Bae

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Speaker 1: Hackle questions her directly.

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Speaker 11: And which hearing?

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Speaker 7: Did you not show up at the one that they

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Speaker 7: had last Monday? I don't know which.

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Speaker 3: Why didn't you show up cause because.

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Speaker 7: I didn't want to get up there and lie. Do

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Speaker 7: you feel threatened by anyone?

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Speaker 8: Has anyone threatened you so that you'd gone into having.

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Speaker 7: I felt threatened by the police because they seemed like

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Speaker 7: they was the ones that was against me.

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Speaker 1: Later, Jaffy questions her about what happened when detectives stopped

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Speaker 1: the tape recorder during interviews.

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Speaker 7: After he you know, somebody put so much pressure on me.

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Speaker 7: And then they get to saying, well, Yolanda, you know

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Speaker 7: you was there because such and such said this, and

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Speaker 7: this person was here, and I know you was with

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Speaker 7: this person. I'm gonna, quite naturally go on and say

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Speaker 7: whatever the person wants me to say, whether it's a

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Speaker 7: truth or whether it's a lie. I'm whatever the person

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Speaker 7: wants me to say, I'm gonna go on and say it.

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Speaker 7: And there was so much stress and pressure on me,

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Speaker 7: and I couldn't have my mama around when they was

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Speaker 7: questioning me or my attorney, so I just went with

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Speaker 7: the flow. Whatever they wanted me to say, I would

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Speaker 7: say it.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel.

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Speaker 2: About what you've done to our Dregis Ford and too

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Speaker 2: far As Johnson.

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Speaker 7: I'm sorry for doing it, but I didn't know any better,

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Speaker 7: and I feel like I was even though I was lying.

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Speaker 7: I feel like I was taking advantage of of two

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Speaker 7: because my own mother wasn't even there to be a

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Speaker 7: comforter for me. Because every time they came and got me,

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Speaker 7: they wouldn't let my mom come in with me. I

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00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 7: always had to go with them, but I was property

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Speaker 7: of them.

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Speaker 1: At the hearing, Jeffy argues that Yolanda's testimony should have

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00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: put an end to the state's case.

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Speaker 3: They should have dropped the case. They should have dropped the.

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00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 12: Case at the point where she had already perjured herself

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Speaker 12: at the preliminary hearing and at the grand jury, and

299
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Speaker 12: now she's saying, I perjured myself. So how do you ethically,

300
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 12: if you're a prosecutor, take a death penalty case, even

301
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 12: a shoplifting case to trial, if all you've got is

302
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 12: pured testimony.

303
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 3: How do you do that?

304
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: But after the hearing is over, Judge Alfred ba Haackle

305
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,719
Speaker 1: makes his decision. He chooses not to accept Yolanda's recantation

306
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 1: and denies the motion to dismiss the charges. The case

307
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: moves forward as if this hearing never happened. More than

308
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 1: twenty five years after this hearing, Detective Tony Richardson and

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00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 1: I discussed this moment when Yolanda said under oath that

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Speaker 1: police pressured her to change her story.

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Speaker 2: The rule of an interrogation is you interrogate, And part

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00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 2: of an interrogation is you lean on people, you put

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Speaker 2: pressure on them.

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Speaker 3: You want them to feel that pressure. You know, you

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Speaker 3: don't threadn no more or.

316
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Speaker 2: Anything like that, but you want them to feel that

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00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: pressure that you leaning on them. And you want that pressure,

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Speaker 2: as O saying goes burst of pipe, so that they

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00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 2: will start to overflowing.

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Speaker 1: And telling you, well, where does that leave the truth?

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Speaker 1: I mean, she's clearly perjured herself somewhere, because she's testified

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Speaker 1: that she was there and will witness the murder on

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Speaker 1: multiple occasions, and then she testifies on the stand in

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Speaker 1: court that she's made the whole thing up and she

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Speaker 1: did it because of pressure. And y'all have been coercing her.

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Speaker 2: If we had been coercing her and pressuring her. And

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that that happens or has happened in the PA.

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Speaker 2: Let's say that happened in the early eighteen hundreds. Okay,

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00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: nobody in the modern age does that anyway. Let's say

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Speaker 2: that she was pressuring the course, did she tell things

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Speaker 2: that she couldn't have known that unless.

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Speaker 3: She was there? Yes?

333
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 4: Like what?

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Speaker 3: Well, like for.

335
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Speaker 2: Instance, the scenario about how it happened, the scenario about

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Speaker 2: how the deputy came out of the back of the hotel.

337
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Speaker 3: We know the deputy came out of the back of

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Speaker 3: the hotel. We're not telling her this. She came in

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00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 3: and told us.

340
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Speaker 4: But that was in the newspaper.

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00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no, no, no no.

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00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: It was in the newspaper. Hardy was killed at the

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Speaker 1: back entrance of the hotel, and this was reported and

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00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: the first article published the day of the murder. It

345
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: was also on the news the morning of his death.

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00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: A reporter gestures to the hotel's back door.

347
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Speaker 4: The work as hard as they can on this.

348
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Speaker 6: We are at the back door of the Crown Sterling Suites.

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Speaker 2: Where forty nine year old William Hardy was found shot

350
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: twice in the head. Not so, what I'm saying is

351
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 2: here you have Yolanda Chambers, who, after all these years,

352
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: from day one, has been called a liar. And I'll

353
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,479
Speaker 2: be the first to tell she is or she was.

354
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 2: But as an investigator, you have to sort through this.

355
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: You have to figure out what's the truth in this

356
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: to help build a case.

357
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: Throughout my conversation with Rosa Hardy, she expresses regret about

358
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: involving Yolanda and Deputy Hardy's murder investigation.

359
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 4: She resented the fact that I even mentioned it. So

360
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 4: we didn't really communicate about it. But in the end,

361
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 4: you know, I felt so many times, even after she died,

362
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 4: that you know, I just had a lot to do

363
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 4: with how she ended up. I don't know if I

364
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 4: did the right thing by speaking up. Looked like it

365
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 4: just missed the boy life.

366
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: At seventeen, Yolanda got pregnant and gave birth to a

367
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: baby girl. Rosa says the child's father was never part

368
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: of their lives. Yolanda would go on to have a

369
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: second child, a son, with another partner.

370
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 4: Such a beautiful picture of hers.

371
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was a really pretty girl.

372
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 4: She was, and she got I mixed up in all

373
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 4: kind of stuff, I tell you.

374
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: Rosa shows us pictures of Yolanda where she appears happy,

375
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: smiling holding her babies. In one photo, a large tattoo

376
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: of a jaguar is visible on Yolanda's chest. Rosa tells

377
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: us after she got Yolanda involved in this case, their

378
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: relationship was never the same, estranged.

379
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 4: And she was fear me to me, call me a

380
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 4: bitch in front of anybody. But we were not close

381
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 4: at all.

382
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: According to Rosa, the baby boy's father wanted to marry Yolanda,

383
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: but he wanted her to get sober first. By then,

384
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: Yolanda had developed a debilitating dependence on heroin to get by.

385
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: Yolanda sometimes worked at a strip club in Birmingham's West End.

386
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: She was also arrested several times for theft and writing

387
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: bad checks, but she wasn't sent to rehab or sentenced

388
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: to prison for these charges. Instead, Yolanda leveraged the one

389
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: relationship where she felt she had some value the police.

390
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 4: I might be talking too much, but I'm going to

391
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 4: tell you this. I found out that she was snitching

392
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: on drug dealers and they were paying her. The FBI,

393
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 4: they gave her money. They would come by the apartment

394
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 4: and give her money. So eventually I ran across from

395
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 4: one that had come to the apartment one time, and

396
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 4: I had told them that they needed to take care

397
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 4: of my daughter, and they said that they would.

398
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 1: Rosa says that police were knowingly supporting Yolanda's addiction with

399
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: no regard for her health or the incredible risks she

400
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: was taking informing on drug dealers. My producer spoke with

401
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: Rosa over the phone about this.

402
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 14: Do you think they were trying to protect her in

403
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 14: any kind of way?

404
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 4: The police, No, they wouldn't. No, they were not no

405
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 4: mm m. They didn't care. All they wanted was what

406
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 4: they wanted.

407
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 5: So they just paid her and that was that was it.

408
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 4: They just paid her and that was there. And they

409
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 4: told me that it wasn't anything going to happen to

410
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: her and she when she went missing. I called them

411
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 4: and told them that she was missing, and they were

412
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 4: very short with me and told me just like this,

413
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 4: Oh she'll show up. She just don't want her be

414
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 4: and just that was the reply.

415
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: Rosa connects us with an old friend of Yolanda's named Alicia,

416
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: who confirms that Yolanda worked as an informant. Yolanda would

417
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: sometimes crash at Alicia's house before walking to the corner

418
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: where officers would pick her up.

419
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 4: And she got out and walked out and down.

420
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 6: To her home.

421
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 4: She was like, I'll be big.

422
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: Alicia tells us it wasn't a secret that Yolanda was informing.

423
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 11: Knew a lot of people know.

424
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that was god.

425
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 11: Police nerve and don't.

426
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 3: Talk too oh really.

427
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: Some people even called her police girl. But law enforcement

428
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: gave Yolanda no protection and she took no precautions.

429
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 3: Because see, she was so into her bad habit.

430
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 4: She didn't care who knew she was snitching on people,

431
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: so the hit could have came from anywhere.

432
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: Yolanda's murder was part of a string of tragedies in

433
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: Rosa's life. All three of her children died young. When

434
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: Yolanda was six years old, her older sister, Sabrina, died

435
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: from asthma complications, and a few years after Yolanda's death,

436
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: her brother Darius was killed. Darius was openly gay and

437
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 1: active in Chicago. He was waiting at a bus stop

438
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: when a group of men approached him and beat him

439
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: to death. Media report stated the men wanted his cell phone,

440
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: but Rosa still wonders if it was a hate crime.

441
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 4: It's devastating when you lose your kids, you know, But

442
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 4: I have to push through it. Will you mean we

443
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 4: all are gonna die? What hurt is the way they live?

444
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 4: I think that did some so much.

445
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 6: I do.

446
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: I miss my kids, The people who loved Yolanda hoped

447
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: she could get help overcoming her addiction. Sometimes it seemed

448
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: like Yolanda wanted that too.

449
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 4: She told me that she was sorry about the way

450
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 4: she had talked to me, and did you mistreated me?

451
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 4: And then she got killed.

452
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: The autopsy report shows that when Yolanda was killed, she

453
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: was wearing black corduroy pants, a black T shirt under

454
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: a black zip up jacket, and gold slip on flats.

455
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: Her T shirt had a heart and a peace sign

456
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: on it. She had been shot three times in the

457
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: head and once in the chest. A bullet had gone

458
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: through her right hand, as if she'd held it up

459
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: to defend herself. She was twenty nine years old.

460
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 4: That she was a very troubled person and demons had

461
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 4: took over her. And don't think I'm crazy when I

462
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: say this, because there are certain such things. Even when

463
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 4: she died, you could see the demons in her in

464
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 4: her casket. She wasted so bad. The girl in Selma

465
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: that had her body. She said that she had been

466
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 4: shot up with dope. She had hit straight through here

467
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: with a bullet, and she begged me not to look

468
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: at her. She said, please, don't look at it. She said,

469
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 4: remember her the wear you were. I just had to

470
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 4: see her, and she opened up and she let me

471
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 4: look there.

472
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: We wanted to know if Yolanda's murder was connected to

473
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: her relationship with police, so we filed a freedom of

474
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: information request with the FBI was she in fact working

475
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: with them as a paid informant. As of this recording,

476
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: the FBI has emailed us to say they have identified

477
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: at least fifty pages of relevant documents, but our request

478
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: to read them is in a long line of other requests.

479
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: We won't be able to see the documents until twoenty

480
00:31:48,520 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: twenty five. So you don't know who killed your daughter.

481
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 4: No, I don't know who killed but she did call

482
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 4: me and told me that if anything had ever happened

483
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 4: to her, this guy had threatened her.

484
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: This guy was Yolanda's boyfriend. Both Rosa and Yolanda's friend Alicia,

485
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: believe he killed Yolanda and told me their relationship was volatile.

486
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: I haven't found any other evidence connecting this person to

487
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: Yolanda's murder, so I'm not going to name him here,

488
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: but I look up his record and find that he

489
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to drug trafficking and served time in federal prison.

490
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: Alicia says when she found out that Yolanda had been murdered,

491
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: she figured he'd finally learned Yolanda was informing on drug dealers.

492
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: I also learn this person was killed in twenty fifteen,

493
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: and I don't know if police ever connected him to

494
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: Yolanda's murder. Rosa says after Yolanda's funeral, she had some

495
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: contact with a detective in Bessemer about her daughter's murder,

496
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: but she hasn't heard anything in years.

497
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 4: So a call.

498
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 10: It's been forwarded to an automatic voice message system at

499
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 10: the tone, please record your message.

500
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: Hey, this message is for Lieutenant Clemens. My name is

501
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: Beth shelburn I spend weeks trying to connect with Bessemer

502
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: Police to find out if there's anything going on with

503
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: Yolanda's murder investigation. I leave messages and finally I get

504
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Christian Clemens on the phone. I tell him the

505
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: same thing that I said in the messages, that I'm

506
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 1: looking into Yolanda's murders. He says he'll call me back,

507
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: but after two months, Mara and I decide to just

508
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: go there in person. Lieutenant Clemens.

509
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: Here we come.

510
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm here to see Lieutenant Clemens.

511
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 4: Shelburne.

512
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 1: We wait in the busy lobby of the Bessemer Police

513
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: Department until Lieutenant Clemens emerges from behind a heavy steel door.

514
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: So we have both called you about this case that

515
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: we're just trying to get an update on this project

516
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: that we're working on Yolanda.

517
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: Michelle Chambers, tell me.

518
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 14: A little bit more about it, because I remember it

519
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 14: being an overcase.

520
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: I haven't been able to do anything at all.

521
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm stuck in a loop. I keep

522
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: giving this guy the same information what we're talking about. Yeah,

523
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: we're just trying to figure out why you.

524
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 3: Haven't gotten back to us.

525
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: Oh, it's just he tells us that Yolanda's case is

526
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: low on the Totem poll of priorities.

527
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 14: Importance, prioritization.

528
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: It was kind of load.

529
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 11: Why was that low?

530
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 14: Today's victims are the ones we do with most. You know,

531
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 14: it's really just prioritization of cases. We have found detectives.

532
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 14: We had twenty nine homicides last year. We knew the math.

533
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: Even though Lieutenant Clemens is perfectly polite, it seems like

534
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: he's not going to spend time on this case. But

535
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 1: we give him the information we've learned about Yolanda's murder,

536
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,479
Speaker 1: including the name of the possible suspect. Maybe if any

537
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: evidence from Yolanda's body was preserved, police could test it

538
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: and match it against this possible suspect. He served time

539
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: in federal prison, so his DNA would be on record.

540
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: I ask if we can look at the investigative file,

541
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: and he promises to get back to me.

542
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, well, thank you for your time.

543
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: A few hours later, Lieutenant Clements calls and tells me

544
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: that Yolanda's case is still open. He says he'll look

545
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: into the evidence that's being held in a storage unit.

546
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, just so you know, my next chapter is to

547
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 6: go out to our storage build world of our old

548
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 6: records are old cases and look for the case file

549
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 6: on this kind of go through it again to see

550
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 6: what was done, what needs to be done, and go

551
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 6: from there.

552
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: So I wait to hear back from Lieutenant Clemens, but

553
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: he never calls again. This feels like the system letting

554
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers down one final time.

555
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 3: So my name is Cali Greer.

556
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: For many years, Callie Greer faced the same struggles as

557
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers, like drug addiction and charged interactions with police.

558
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: Callie is now an organizer and educator focused on advocating

559
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: for poor people in Alabama. I asked her from some

560
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: perspective on Yolanda's life, death, and her involvement with law enforcement.

561
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 11: They find these vulnerable people that are on drugs for

562
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 11: black some of them white street people. People that on

563
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 11: the street, unsheltered, unprotected, underserved, disposable, invisible people. When you're

564
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 11: out there like that, you're used by the drug deals.

565
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 11: You're used by the men on the street, the giants.

566
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 11: You're used by the police officers. You're used by men

567
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 11: that madelests. You're in your family, you're used by your moms,

568
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 11: your aunt's boyfriends.

569
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 4: And so you just use.

570
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, you're just used and you have no sympathy, You

571
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 11: have no worth, no morals, you have none of this

572
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 11: stuff that makes you feel human.

573
00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: Kelly says that when officers give informants attention, call them

574
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: either given name. That's powerful for people who are otherwise ignored.

575
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 11: How somebody saw you, recognize you.

576
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 3: They actually call my name, you know, because you have

577
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: not been called that name, your name.

578
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 11: You've been called everything else but that crackhead, pitch or prostitute,

579
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 11: greg addet, cod criminal mama.

580
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: So I see that with.

581
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: Her CALLI holds compassion for Yolanda, a grace that didn't

582
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: seem to be extended to her by law enforcement or

583
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: the court system. Yolanda Chambers was most valuable to law

584
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: enforcement when she was traumatized. I think this is something

585
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: Detective Tony Richardson realizes too.

586
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: Yolanda Chambers was a fifteen year old child that I

587
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: wish we would have handled at the time a little

588
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: bit differently.

589
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: What do you wish you would have done differently with her?

590
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: Well, I wish we would have taken more time in

591
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: this whole thing, the whole case.

592
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 3: I wish we would have taken more time. I wish

593
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: that I would have taken more time with Yolanda. I

594
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: wish that.

595
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have looked at her as a street wise girl.

596
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 2: And I think in looking at her at her as

597
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 2: a and she was street wise, I treated her like she.

598
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 3: Was older and street wise.

599
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 2: Instead of treating her like she's fifteen, scared to death,

600
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 2: don't know what to do, which way to go. And

601
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 2: I did that because I've got a police officer that's

602
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: been shot.

603
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: In the years following Hardy's murder and for the rest

604
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: of Yolanda's life, she didn't talk with her mom much

605
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: about the case. But there was one thing, Roses says

606
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: Yolanda told her consistently over the years, and this is what.

607
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 4: She always said too. The one that did at the time,

608
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 4: he wasn't even the one that did it. Now she

609
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 4: did tell me that, she said he didn't even do

610
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 4: so to Forrest Johnson is the one. He's still in prison,

611
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 4: but she said he wasn't the one that did it.

612
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 6: Wow.

613
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: Next time the Overlooked Clues and lost Leads, We investigate

614
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: the investigation into Deputy Hardy's murder and what detectives miss

615
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: while they fixate on Yolanda. Ear Witness is a production

616
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company

617
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: Number One. Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis,

618
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: and me Beth Shelburne. The investigative reporting for this series

619
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: was done by Me and MARAA McNamara. Producers are MARAA McNamara,

620
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: Hannah bial and Jackie Polly. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer.

621
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from

622
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Catherine Newhan. Special thanks

623
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: to Gracelyn Prestwood for playing the part of Yolanda Chambers,

624
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: Brett Knight for playing Judge Alfred bay Hackle, and Attorney

625
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: Richard Jaffey for playing him so helf in the courtroom

626
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: scene of this episode, and special thanks to to Forest

627
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: Johnson's legal defense team. You can follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,

628
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: and Twitter at Lava for Good. To see behind the

629
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: scenes content from our investigation, visit Lava for Good dot

630
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: com slash ear witness