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Speaker 1: All right, are were recording. We're recording.

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Speaker 2: Ah, hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee Stubs, a tennis podcast. Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: how excited are you about the fact that it isn't snowing.

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Speaker 3: Yet here in New York.

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Speaker 2: I I mean, I'm sitting outside in a T shirt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. This is always the part of the year that

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Speaker 1: I struggle with because I don't really fall really confounds me.

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking. I love winter because I like skiing

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Speaker 1: and snow. I don't really tend to enjoy this time

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Speaker 1: of the year. So I'm trying to, you know, change

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Speaker 1: my attitude, good, change my whole growth. Yeah. Just you know,

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Speaker 1: for long time listeners of this podcast, you've probably heard

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Speaker 1: us grow and change.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about that, but anyway, trying try. You're trying, so, Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: I sent you an article the other day. Yes, it's

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Speaker 2: getting talked about a little bit on the state of

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Speaker 2: tennis in an overall way, I guess is the best

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Speaker 2: way to put it. And how that you know, Look,

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Speaker 2: we talk about it all the time, about this Asia swing,

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Speaker 2: about what's important after the US opens, blah blah blah,

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Speaker 2: all the things. So you are a great you know,

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Speaker 2: you were a former journalist who still are a journalists

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Speaker 2: like you would have read this article. So I said

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Speaker 2: to you, take a look at it and see what

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Speaker 2: you think based on what you read, and give us

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Speaker 2: a little synopsis of it, because it's kind of going

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Speaker 2: around what's happening right now, and we've talked about it.

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Speaker 2: The tours need to change somehow for these players, for

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Speaker 2: the benefit of the players.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, actually, this is a really good

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Speaker 1: time to talk about this because even though we've talked

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Speaker 1: about it about it at various points in the year,

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Speaker 1: We've talked about it at various points over the years.

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Speaker 1: This part of the year, which is now happening, there's

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Speaker 1: tournaments in Shanghai and Beijing are rape with retirement. They're

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Speaker 1: rife with people shutting in their seasons. You know, since

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Speaker 1: we last spoke, alenas Fitelina has decided that her season

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Speaker 1: is over, and she's not the only one. People have

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Speaker 1: been pulling out of Aijing Arena. Seblink did so a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, which, you know, it's a major tournament,

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Speaker 1: it's a mandatory and you don't have the number one

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Speaker 1: player in the world who is you know, coming off

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Speaker 1: of a US Open championship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like she just sort of has this

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Speaker 2: great moment. She's the biggest thing in tennis at the

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Speaker 2: moment in tennis as far as women are concerned. I

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Speaker 2: mean just saying with the eyeballs on the US Open

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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden gone like Kevin Sena

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Speaker 2: for like.

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Speaker 1: A month, one hundred percent. And you know, obviously she's

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Speaker 1: trying to preserve her body and make sure that she

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Speaker 1: has a strong run to the WTA finals, which a

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Speaker 1: lot of players get motivated by, especially the ones who

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Speaker 1: are kind of on the bubble. She is not. She qualified,

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Speaker 1: you know, very early in the year. But obviously there's

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Speaker 1: a big purse associated with playing the tour final tournaments.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's for a lot of other people kind

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Speaker 1: of not you know, the juice isn't worth the squeeze

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Speaker 1: to play this last bit of the tournament either of

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Speaker 1: the season, either because they're injured or because they know

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Speaker 1: that they don't have a chance to accrue the kind

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Speaker 1: of points they'd need to make a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: and so they shut it down. Now, no, I don't

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Speaker 1: blame them at all. It's unfortunate. I'm blame the players

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Speaker 1: at all. I don't blame the players at all. It

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Speaker 1: is something I've reiterated and actually a piece we're about

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Speaker 1: to publish from a Chinese author talking about how, you know,

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Speaker 1: when we see empty stands a lot of these tournaments

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Speaker 1: in the Asia swing, it's because the tournaments haven't necessarily

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Speaker 1: set them up to succeed with scheduling and this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. Why. But my goal here is not to talk

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Speaker 1: about Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But also, Caitline, I mean, you lived in China. It's

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Speaker 2: a very talk about you know, Coloss, It's like they're

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Speaker 2: working there in the day. You know, I can get

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Speaker 2: people that come to the tennis in the daytime there

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Speaker 2: very rarely.

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Speaker 1: It's on the newer end of the spectrum for spectator sports,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I think there are some inherent challenges,

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Speaker 1: not least of which is the fact that you know,

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Speaker 1: there aren't always the stars that are committed that show up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that's true for all tournaments. So

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Speaker 1: my goal here is not to necessarily discuss Asia specifically.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's the calendar. Now. The reason this becomes

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Speaker 1: germane is it was revealed earlier this week that a

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Speaker 1: letter was sent over the summer to the tours, no

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Speaker 1: sorry to the Grand Slams. Now. This letter was signed

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Speaker 1: by very very notable players, including when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: right now, Ernest Sablanca, you get Schianta Cocoa, GoF Carlos

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Speaker 1: Alchrisienix Center and Jack Draper.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's that's some stopouf between.

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Speaker 2: That's not like some you know, fringe couple of players

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Speaker 2: on tour that started the PTPA couple and we.

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Speaker 1: Should talk about the PTPA because they are also engaged

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Speaker 1: in lawsuits against both tours and now the Slams. So

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Speaker 1: all of the governing bodies in tennis, which are arguably seven,

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Speaker 1: between the two tours, the four Slams, and the IF

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Speaker 1: which technically administers the Olympics, it's a lot of governing

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Speaker 1: bodies and a lot of people to sort of a

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Speaker 1: lot of chefs in the kitchen. Now, the fact that

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Speaker 1: the PTPA a couple of years ago launched with Novak

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Speaker 1: Djokovic's support, Vashik Paspiciales support mostly men. They later added

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Speaker 1: some women and have kind of been lobbying lawsuits at

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Speaker 1: various bodies in tennis has largely been seen, I would

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Speaker 1: say as fair to surmise as kind of a nothing burger.

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Speaker 1: That's not to say that there's not good ideas behind

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Speaker 1: it or there's not intelligent people involved. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: unclear to me what their strategy has been, although the

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Speaker 1: goal seems very clear, which is to reform a lot

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Speaker 1: of this schedule and reform a lot of the prize

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Speaker 1: money sharing. Because even though we see every year these

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Speaker 1: slams are announcing bigger and bigger prize pools for the

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Speaker 1: winners and the participants as a percentage, they are making

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Speaker 1: so much more money than they are sharing, certainly more

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Speaker 1: than other leagues right on a sheer percentage side, and they,

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Speaker 1: the players as essentially labor, are saying, we, yes, great

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Speaker 1: that you throw us a bone every year and increase

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Speaker 1: the prize, but we know that you're making so much

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Speaker 1: more money than you're sharing, and we want participate in

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Speaker 1: it now.

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Speaker 2: And I think there needs to be just so people

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Speaker 2: out there understand, like the US Open, for example, is

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Speaker 2: a non for profit, so they use this in a

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Speaker 2: way in some respects to say, well, but we're a

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Speaker 2: non for profit. We use all this money to put

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Speaker 2: back into tennis and run our programs and run our

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Speaker 2: junior programs and pay our coaches and build tennis courts,

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Speaker 2: places and all that sort of stuff, which is true,

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Speaker 2: which is true, but I would like to see more

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Speaker 2: numbers based on Okay, that's true, how much are you

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Speaker 2: spending and how much are you keeping and how much

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Speaker 2: are you profiting on and how much are you making

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Speaker 2: on interest?

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the cases of these non profit

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Speaker 1: entities which control the sports Tennis Australia, the French Tennis Federation,

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Speaker 1: the Lawn Tennis Association and collaboration with all England and

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Speaker 1: London like these are nonprofits, as you say, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of their operation is yes, to theoretically grow the

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Speaker 1: game at a grassroogs level, but also they own other entities,

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Speaker 1: they own o their tournaments and you know, the salaries

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Speaker 1: of the people who work there are sizable. You know, famously,

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Speaker 1: when Patrick McEnroe ran player development, he was famously pocketing

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Speaker 1: a ton of money when none of the players made

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Speaker 1: it as Grand Slam champions. So there's fair critique, I

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Speaker 1: think for a lot of the governing bodies in terms

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Speaker 1: of what they're doing. Now, what's interesting about this letter

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Speaker 1: was that a Novak Djokovic didn't sign it, so maybe

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Speaker 1: he feels like maybe the PTPA more accurately represents his interests,

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Speaker 1: although notably, he is also not a part of the

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Speaker 1: lawsuit officially filed against the Slams and the Tours. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that he has given up?

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Speaker 2: No? Do you think that he knows and is like,

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Speaker 2: I'm supportive, but I'm not putting my.

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Speaker 3: Name to it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think he Do you think it's because he

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Speaker 2: knows he's going to be retiring in the next twelve.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to know. I mean, I actually really appreciate

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Speaker 1: the fact that Novak has tried to be a reformer.

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Speaker 1: I have had a number of things to critique him

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Speaker 1: about through the years, but this is not one of them.

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Speaker 1: I think the fact that he wants the tennis Tour

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Speaker 1: to be quote unquote better is actual, genuine.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, great, I agree with that.

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Speaker 1: I think the problem for a lot of these athletes,

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Speaker 1: and I would say this with you know, absolute generosity,

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Speaker 1: is that I don't think that they all agree on

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Speaker 1: what is quote unquote better, what does better look like.

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Speaker 1: I think there's probably some big ideas that everyone can

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Speaker 1: agree about, like, hey, this season needs to be shorter,

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Speaker 1: this tournament structure went from having ten ish mandatory tournaments.

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Speaker 3: I am twenty.

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Speaker 2: I don't mean to laugh at you, but I do

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Speaker 2: think it's funny because as much as I love Carlos,

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Speaker 2: it's like I have recently seen that he is literally

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Speaker 2: signed up for like every exhibition in December, playing an exhibition.

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Speaker 3: He is playing an exhibition.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me, he's doing with in New Jersey, he's doing

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Speaker 1: with the one in Saudi Arabia. Like, it is hard

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Speaker 1: to take them seriously when they're like, yes, the schedule

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Speaker 1: needs to be smaller so that I can go play

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Speaker 1: exhibitions in the Miami suburbs, like what you know. Again,

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Speaker 1: not so much critique, it's just a little inconsistent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that just makes me. That's what makes me laugh.

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Speaker 2: But I will say I think I don't think I

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Speaker 2: will say this about Carlos. He doesn't complain about the schedule. No,

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Speaker 2: he's the few who doesn't. He doesn't complain about it,

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Speaker 2: And I think that's where he gets away with it

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Speaker 2: a little bit of playing these exhibitions because he's like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not complain.

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Speaker 1: About it, really, And he also.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't play certain tournaments based on the fact that he

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know, we've talked about Igo

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Speaker 1: Schiantak a number of times on this tournament because she's

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Speaker 1: been really vocal about it. She is also signatory to

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Speaker 1: this letter, and you know she doesn't play exhibit she

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Speaker 1: does not. She manages her schedule, I think really intelligently.

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Speaker 1: So the last point I want to make about this

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Speaker 1: letter is that the players, and this is really smart night,

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Speaker 1: actually like to get to the bottom of more of it.

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Speaker 1: They have retained a guy named Larry Scott to represent them.

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Speaker 3: And if people don't know who that is, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Larry Scott is a really interesting person. He ran the WTA.

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Speaker 1: Some would say he ran at the best it has

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Speaker 1: ever been run. With aldi question that is at that

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Speaker 1: time that is a popular opinion. I'm sure there are

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Speaker 1: people who, like in any of these situations, would well yes,

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Speaker 1: but and I'm not a position to say yes. But

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Speaker 1: what Larry Scott is not a nobody. He's somebody who

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Speaker 1: understands the intricacies of the sport very very well. He

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of times in other sport organizing and

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Speaker 1: being in positions of leadership, and I think one thing

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Speaker 1: that I've always felt tennis needed more of was fresh blood,

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Speaker 1: fresh eyes, more experienced business people from outside of the sport.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at the ATP, for example, the

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Speaker 1: person that they just hired to replace Massimo Cavelli, the

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Speaker 1: former CEO, is another player turned agent turned executive. The

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Speaker 1: tours and these governing bodies are rife with people who

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Speaker 1: used to play pro tennis. They are not rife with

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Speaker 1: people who've run businesses and succeeded in other areas of finance,

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Speaker 1: the world sport, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Do you call that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not necessarily nepo because these aren't you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not like these are dynastic rulers that you know,

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Speaker 1: appoint their sons and daughters. But it's it's in and

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Speaker 1: it's incestuous. Just because somebody is a very good tennis

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Speaker 1: player or an okay agent doesn't mean that they will

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Speaker 1: necessarily be very good at running an organization. And I

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Speaker 1: think if you look at what the tourist have accomplished,

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Speaker 1: it speaks to the fact that they're not good enough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that there are and

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Speaker 2: have been former coaches or whatever. I think Craig Tiley

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Speaker 2: is a great example. Craig was a college tennis coach

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Speaker 2: at Indiana.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: No, sorry, not Indiana, Illinois. He was the head coach

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Speaker 2: there and coached you know, some great players during his time.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Anderson, I believe was there many many a really

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Speaker 2: good college player went and he was the coach, including

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Speaker 2: Michael Costa who is now a comedian on The Daily Show.

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Speaker 3: So and wrote a book called Lucky Loser.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't read it, it's pretty funny and gets

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Speaker 2: a little deep into some hilarity. But you know, the

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Speaker 2: bottom line is that I think Craig did an amazing job.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how he got the job at.

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Speaker 2: Tennis Australia based on the fact that he was a

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Speaker 2: tennis coach, but he has done an amazing job at

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Speaker 2: Tennis Australia of changing the landscape of the Australian Open

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Speaker 2: for the better. And I think that there is a

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Speaker 2: possibility of seeing somebody like that who doesn't come from

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Speaker 2: necessarily a finance background or has run a big company.

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Speaker 2: But you know, there are people out there that can

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Speaker 2: do a really, really great job. But I think the

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Speaker 2: ATP and WTA tends to be a little bit more insular.

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Speaker 2: Who is who do you know who ran it on him.

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Speaker 2: Look at Steve Simon who was a tournament director of

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Speaker 2: Indian Wells and took over as WTA CEO, and did

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Speaker 2: he do a great job.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: Didn't really grow it as much as I think he

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Speaker 2: could have. And I think a lot of it is

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Speaker 2: because he came from sort of like a tennis background

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Speaker 2: and a tennis organization background, as opposed to like you're saying,

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Speaker 2: someone who comes in from an outside business perspective. You know,

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Speaker 2: we always talk about a great friend Sophie Goldschman who

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Speaker 2: wants a usk in snowboard looks she's gone through the

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Speaker 2: gamut and actually, interestingly enough, worked under Larry Scott at

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Speaker 2: the WTA and really admires him a lot, and she's

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Speaker 2: done an incredible n Skian snowboard.

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Speaker 1: And I think the reason she's done an amazing job

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Speaker 1: at us Kean Snoward, getting them new events, new sponsorships,

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Speaker 1: grown the sport is because she was able to take

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Speaker 1: lessons from running the Surf League, from working in the

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Speaker 1: rugby union, working at the NBA under visionary leadership. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I look at somebody like Craig Morris, who you know

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Speaker 1: is heading up the brand new coaching initiative that the

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Speaker 1: USTA is hoping to really ignite a lot of grassroots

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Speaker 1: play with his idea that anybody can be a coach,

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Speaker 1: from a grandmother to somebody who's high school jym teat

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Speaker 1: or to whatever, to just get new people into the sport.

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Speaker 1: There are entrepreneurial minded people. Having seven governing bodies is

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Speaker 1: a disaster and stuff and the amount of repetitive function

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Speaker 1: that you have in competition that you have. If you're

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Speaker 1: Audi and you want to sign tennis, you want to

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Speaker 1: get into tennis. You're a sports car manufacturer and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you want to sponsor tennis. Who where

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Speaker 1: do you start? Do you start with the player? You

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Speaker 1: start with a tour?

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Speaker 3: Well that's what.

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Speaker 1: Do you start with a tournament? Do you start with

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Speaker 1: a governing body? And the amount of conflicts of interest send,

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Speaker 1: the amount of red tape and the amount of agents,

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Speaker 1: and the amount of conflicting messages and repetition in all

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Speaker 1: these bodies, it makes it impossible for you to really

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Speaker 1: participate in it without you know, paying off everyone and

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Speaker 1: having an easy time of it. Whereas if I want

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Speaker 1: to go and be okay, I'm going to sponsor F one,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do one deal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah done?

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, So what was your what was your end

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Speaker 2: synopsis of that?

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Speaker 1: My takeaway is that the tours should be and the

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Speaker 1: governing bodies should be on high alert. I think they

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Speaker 1: are caught on the back foot. I think that they

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Speaker 1: do not have a lot of I think their their

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Speaker 1: responses to this lawsuit felt very defensive and they felt

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Speaker 1: very opaque. They were like, we're committed to a transparent structure.

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Speaker 1: We will you know, we look forward to a productive dialogue.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot of corporate cover your ass language

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Speaker 1: that didn't feel transformational or that they took the matter seriously. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm not too worried about the tours the tours being

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Speaker 1: sued by the PTPA. I don't think the PTPA has

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Speaker 1: much teeth, and I also don't think the tours really

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Speaker 1: have a reason to exist. Now that said, I think

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Speaker 1: the Slams absolutely do. They're the ones that have all

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Speaker 1: the power, lucrative cydboarship dollars, they have all the relationship

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Speaker 1: with the audience. When people think of Tennis, they don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily think of the ATP, THEWT Most of people don't

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Speaker 1: know what those things stand for. They think of Wimbledon,

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Speaker 1: the US Open, the French and Australia, and maybe they

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Speaker 1: one or two other tournaments. They're besides the players, they

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Speaker 1: are the only valuable entities in the sport. I think

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Speaker 1: it would behoove them to play nicely and create a

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Speaker 1: one body amongst each other and let the tours fall away.

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Speaker 1: But again, that would take for them, for each individual

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Speaker 1: body to give up a lot of power, and I

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Speaker 1: don't foresee them thinking they should do that. But I

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Speaker 1: think if Larry Scott, along with between the six signatories

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Speaker 1: I named a winner of every Grand Slam in the

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Speaker 1: last two years, those are serious people who seriously command

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Speaker 1: sponsorship dollars and eyeballs. And if those players, along with

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Speaker 1: somebody as a students Lario's, are coming after you, you

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Speaker 1: better sit down and figure out a deal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I can tell you from a television standpoint

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Speaker 2: as well, there's about four people that move the dial

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Speaker 2: on ratings, and you know it's it's Carlos, It's it's Novak,

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Speaker 2: and those three really the ones that really spike. We

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Speaker 2: know that when Carlos plays Yannick, it's a huge spike.

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Speaker 2: We know that when Coco plays a Saballenka. It's a spike,

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Speaker 2: but nobody's really you know, Saballenka is sort of not

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Speaker 2: in the higher upper echelance of like spiking TV ratings,

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Speaker 2: and neither is Yanixinner. They're certainly there, but they're not

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Speaker 2: like people are going, oh my god, I want to

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Speaker 2: watch you onixin oh my god, I want a sable Anca.

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Speaker 2: But they do, particularly in America, where a lot of

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Speaker 2: the needle is pushed. I want to watch Alcoraz, I

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Speaker 2: want to watch So those players hold a lot of

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Speaker 2: power in negotiations overall because also television will listen to

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Speaker 2: what they're saying too, because it's really important for them.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think just to round out the thought,

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Speaker 1: what they're asking for is a higher percentage of pay

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Speaker 1: from the Slams, which is we've treated they deserve them.

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Speaker 1: Is you know the Slams are making more and more money.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't. It hasn't kept a peace with what the

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Speaker 1: players are making. They also would like the season to

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Speaker 1: be shorter. We've talked ad nauseum about that because it's

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Speaker 1: just such a no brainer. The amount of mandatory events

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Speaker 1: went from ten to twenty essentially in the last ten years,

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Speaker 1: and it's crazy. The season is one hundred days to

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Speaker 1: two hundred plus days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know it's also you don't get to mind.

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Speaker 2: It's the tours expect you to play x amount and

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Speaker 2: then on top of that the Grand Slams. Right, so

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Speaker 2: you know, if you if the mandatory events are fourteen,

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Speaker 2: for example, and the wt actually don't know what they are,

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Speaker 2: I should have. I should know it's sixteen sixteen for

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Speaker 2: the WTA, so the Slams plus the Slams, so that's

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Speaker 2: twenty event.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot. You might be out there going, no,

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Speaker 3: it's twenty weeks. No, it's not.

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Speaker 2: It's the two weeks of all the w T one

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Speaker 2: thousands ATP one thousands, few weeks.

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Speaker 3: Of the major titles.

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Speaker 2: And and look, you know, I know I played on

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Speaker 2: the tour for twenty two years and it is a long,

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Speaker 2: long year. But I would argue that it is tougher

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Speaker 2: and it's more arduous. These matches are longer from the

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Speaker 2: first to the finals. And if you look at the results,

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Speaker 2: even this week in Beijing, players are winning a lot,

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Speaker 2: players are losing a lot, players are pulling out. It's

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Speaker 2: a very very very very hard twelve month sport. I mean,

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Speaker 2: really it's eleven months, but it is brutal, and the

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Speaker 2: amount of travel and time changes and surface changes, and

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Speaker 2: it's you seeing people lose their minds from time to time,

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Speaker 2: and Medvedev comes to mind.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's not easy.

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Speaker 2: And so that's where the greats really they really do

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Speaker 2: have my absolute respect, because to do it week in

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Speaker 2: and week out for ten, fifteen to twenty years is

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Speaker 2: bloody remind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think if you zoom out and look

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Speaker 1: at the overall popularity of the sport and how much

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Speaker 1: it has grown through a couple of these names and

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Speaker 1: a couple of these big events, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that the sport has kept a peace. And also

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Speaker 1: we're not making it easy for new fans. We're not

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Speaker 1: making it simple for people to participate in watching and

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Speaker 1: attending and following along. So in addition to pay in

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Speaker 1: a smallish season that makes more sense and is not

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Speaker 1: in direct conflict with each other, they also want contributions

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Speaker 1: to pension, health, maternity benefits, and they want to create

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Speaker 1: a new player council. Now, I will put this on

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Speaker 1: the players because I've heard from friends of mine who

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Speaker 1: work at the PTPA that the players say they want

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Speaker 1: all these things, but then when it comes time to advocate,

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Speaker 1: their nowhere to be found. Yeah, that's true, and I

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Speaker 1: think that that's probably true. You know, obviously they're busy

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Speaker 1: and it takes time out of their day to go

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Speaker 1: and do stuff that isn't a brand sponsorship deal or

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Speaker 1: isn't a recovery from a practice. So I get that

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Speaker 1: it is a little bit of a zero some game

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Speaker 1: on their time and resources. That said, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you want things to be better, you have to participate.

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Speaker 1: So hopefully this this this letter that they sent the

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Speaker 1: slams is it looks like from the responses it has

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Speaker 1: been taken very seriously and also like we want the

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Speaker 1: sport to be better.

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Speaker 2: I think if the I think if the slams and

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Speaker 2: then may just really smat here, that can really this

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Speaker 2: can be a quid pro quir This can be like

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Speaker 2: you scratch my back, ey, scratch youles. Let's let's make

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Speaker 2: a bit of a supatua. Let's do the right thing

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Speaker 2: by each other. And you know, get you guys need

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Speaker 2: to control your players association and in regards to this

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: So I think there's a big opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love.

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Speaker 2: I think some like Larry Scott can really make this

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Speaker 2: happen because he is very smart.

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Speaker 1: And I think he understands how the ecosystem works. And

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Speaker 1: so my hope is that they, yeah, they create a

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Speaker 1: partnership that is fruitful and then allows for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the deadweight to be trimmed away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

435
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the problem, and nobody wants to

436
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 1: lose their perch. And I think the truth is a

437
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 1: lot of people have to We've talked about this.

438
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 2: If you say, well, you know, the US Open pay

439
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 2: the winner's five million dollars, I'm like, okay, I get it.

440
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 2: But you do understand someone like Carlis Alcarez can make

441
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: a million dollars for one appearance at an exhibition exhibition,

442
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 2: so if he paid seven exhibition nights, he's making seven

443
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 2: million dollars. Okay, So you have to you have to

444
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 2: think about that when you're talking about these top players

445
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 2: and you say, well, you know, the players rank fifty

446
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: shouldn't be making that because they can.

447
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 3: That's not the point.

448
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: I think for most lay people, the idea of making

449
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: many millions of dollars, it's crazy. So it's most useful

450
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 1: to couch it as a percentage. If the players are

451
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: making three percent of the overall purse and they're providing

452
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: more than fifty percent of the value, then yes, something

453
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: needs to change. Now I pulled those numbers out of

454
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 1: thin air. But again, percentages, it is hard to fathom

455
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 1: how much more money that the tours are making off

456
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: the players, and the players are making off the tours.

457
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 3: And so for that.

458
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 1: Reason, you know, it's it's interesting. And again to your point,

459
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: it's Jermaine. So because it's Germaine, because we're watching the

460
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 1: Asian Swing, because we have all these amazing matches going on,

461
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: and some that have been rife with retirements. Let's talk

462
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: about what you've been seeing, because you've been watching more

463
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: tennis than I have.

464
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, this week has been really fun.

465
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: Actually, I haven't been able to watch a lot live

466
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 2: just because it's in the middle of the night, so

467
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 2: it's been a pain in the ass. So I've watched

468
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 2: a lot of replays and various things like that. But

469
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 2: it was interesting. One of the questions that we were

470
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: asking after the US Open was would co cook Off play.

471
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 3: The Asian Swing?

472
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she is playing the Asian playing the Asians wing.

473
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 2: Well, she is battling. Yeah, let me tell you something.

474
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 2: She battled in her first round. She's battled against Belinda

475
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: Benchicic today in three sets, lost the first set. Like,

476
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know whether Coco is going to

477
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: come out of this year feeling like she can literally

478
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 2: do anything in her life, knowing the obstacles that she's

479
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 2: had to go through with her technique and with the

480
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 2: scrutiny and all of the above.

481
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: But my god, that kid vites.

482
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: Look she battled in this match against Benchic But can

483
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: I just say also, in the middle of that match,

484
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 2: the reason why Coco, I think, found her way is

485
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: that Belinda Benchicch decided to complain about Coco's team and

486
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 2: how they were clapping and being like, you know, saying

487
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: stuff before she was about to serve and stuff, and

488
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 2: she took offense to it. Listen, there was like twelve

489
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 2: people in the stands, and even Coco said that on

490
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 2: the change over, She's like, there's like nobody in the stance.

491
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 3: So of course they sound a lot.

492
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 2: Louder than they would if like it's a packed stadium, okay,

493
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: because you know, everybody be talking, but because there wasn't

494
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: a lot of people in the stands that they obviously

495
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 2: became a little more vocal and Belinda, Belinda took offense

496
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 2: to it and said something to the umpire.

497
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 3: Look, I can tell you one thing.

498
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: If you're winning a match match and you're in a

499
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 2: winning position, which Bencic was at that point, upper set

500
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: and in the second set, you just got to go

501
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 2: and play like you do not want to add fuel

502
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: to somebody's fire, particularly someone like Coco, to like get

503
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 2: her in the mindset to like fight and battle, which

504
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 2: she did in that second set and then subsequently went

505
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 2: on to win the match. So I just think, like

506
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: it's just crazy that these players like lose their mind

507
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: like that, because it's like what I used to say

508
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: when people would play against Serena. It's like, don't poke

509
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: the bear, Like when you're going to give a player

510
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: something to sort of focus on, like, well, if you

511
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna like rather than thinking about like I'm sure

512
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: Coco was on her own head at that point and

513
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, god, am I going to lose and blah blah.

514
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: Then she's like, uh no, no, now you're disrespecting me

515
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: and my team.

516
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 3: I'm going to focus.

517
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 2: So I would just say anyone who's playing against the

518
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 2: top player, don't poke the bear and don't poke Cocoa

519
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 2: Golf because she's usually probably one of the most respected

520
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: players on tour and she's not going to stand for it,

521
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: and she'll stand up for herself and her team. And

522
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: so I think that was well done by her. And look,

523
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: she went on to win the match. I have to say,

524
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: Emma Radakhanu, although she didn't beat Jessica Bagoola, had three

525
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: match points to win that match and the tennis was fantastic,

526
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 2: like from the beginning, like Emma has. I think Emma's

527
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: gotten so much better with this new coach that she's

528
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: had now, week in and week out working on things,

529
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: and she's on the cusp of sort of breaking through again.

530
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 3: I would argue that she's kind of sort.

531
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: Of back as a very as a top twenty player. Yeah,

532
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: I feel like she's in the top twenty category now

533
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: and I really think that the way she pushed Jesstera

534
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: Bagoola and Jessicagoola's back end down the line, can I

535
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: just say, if you do have a match point against

536
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: her and you had a great shot to her backhand

537
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: to cover the back end down the line, because she

538
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: hit two back ends on the line on two match

539
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: points of the three match points that were unbelievable.

540
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 3: The first one was a joke.

541
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: I mean, Emma hit the most incredible backhand return cross court.

542
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 2: It was so deep and Jess just you know, got

543
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: that left leg down there anchored and just went down

544
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: the line with the back end. It was like unbelievable,

545
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 2: and then you thought, I can't get any better than that.

546
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: And then another match point, Emma comes in on a

547
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 2: really on you know how I feel about coming in

548
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: a cross court foehand severev She goes inside out, hits

549
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: a perfect shot but doesn't cover the line and just

550
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: just makes it back end down the line again. So

551
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: it was great tennis. And then Jess ran away with

552
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: the third set. A couple of couple of tough first

553
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: games in the set in the third, but you can

554
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: imagine that Emma's like just spewing about the three set

555
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: match points that she had. But it was great tennis,

556
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: and really, I feel like Jess might be really tough

557
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 2: to beat there after that because it's almost like when

558
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: you're down match points, you kind of feel like you're

559
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: playing with house money, So certainly feel like Jess will

560
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 2: be really hard to beat and Asia swing tends to

561
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: be really quick the court.

562
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, this suits her does quite a bit. I would

563
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: just going back to run and cunning for a second.

564
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: I was really thrilled to see how she backed up

565
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: Miami on the grass, and she didn't have a great

566
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: US Open. She had two very close matches with Sabalanca

567
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: over this hardcourt summer series. And I'm hoping for her

568
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: that she is a stalwart in the top twenty because

569
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: when she plays well and all the scrutiny. Talk about

570
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: scrutiny for you know, Coco, all the scrutiny with her

571
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: game and her coaching and a da da da da da,

572
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: and like, you know, we are really really hard on

573
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: players who have reached the heights of the game and

574
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: struggled to stay there. That's more true of Emma than

575
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: it is of Coco, obviously, But I think.

576
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: You know, look, Katelein, we have to go back and say,

577
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: this girl won the US Open, So, like you know,

578
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: in the most unbelievable It's like it's like it's a

579
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: story that if a movie was made about it, we

580
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: as tennis Punnetts would be.

581
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: Like that would never happen, realistic.

582
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: There's no chance someone's coming through qualifying and winning a major.

583
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 2: It's not happening. And she did. So it's like the

584
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: most unbelievable fairy tale story arguably in tennis history, what

585
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: she did, you know what I mean, it's just like

586
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: so it's kind of like, you know, on the men's side,

587
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: to say Goran Ivanissovitch winning Wimbledon back in the day,

588
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: when you know he cares a word, you know if

589
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: you're remember having on the podcast and he talked about

590
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: that where he didn't even have enough bloat and shirts

591
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 2: and rackets because no one thought he could get to

592
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: the second week and he ends up winning Wimbledon. I mean,

593
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: at the same time, this is the guy made the

594
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: final a couple of times, so we knew what he

595
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: was capable of doing, certainly on grass, and no Emma

596
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: Radikano winning the US Open through qualifying is a fairy tale.

597
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: And then you know, having to back it up.

598
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: And she's a beautiful young woman and she's got she's

599
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 2: English and press on her. So I don't know, I

600
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: just love her doing well. I love truly and playing

601
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 2: good tennis. I've said this the entirety of the season.

602
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: I love her game. Her game to me a game,

603
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 2: I love her game. I think her technique is just

604
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: really fun to watch because she takes the ball early.

605
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: She's not enormous, but she takes big plays a little

606
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 2: bit like Jeanie Bouchard used to great return on the loan,

607
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: right on the line, go for it.

608
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: On the grays forehand.

609
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: I think She's clearly is a much better movie than

610
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: Genie was. But but yeah, they remind me a lot

611
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 2: of each other the way they play.

612
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: I think her ball is so clean and I like

613
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: the way she constructs points. So for me, watching her

614
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: is really fun. She has one of my favorite games

615
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: on court. Yeah, and also, like you know, because she

616
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: is not unattractive and has a major market behind her

617
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: in the form of the UK, Like they always make

618
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: sure she has great outfits and you know, like she

619
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: she has star quality. I think that's really compelling shot

620
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: a way that Jill Schmoller. I mean kudos, because yeah,

621
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: she's she comes correct only tournament, so I think the

622
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: tour is better with her in it, and I would

623
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: agree to me her the complete season she's had from

624
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: Miami Sunshine double to you know, grass through now the

625
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: hard courts like it's it's been encouraging because I think, again,

626
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: one of the things I like so much about tennis

627
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: is just the very very very diverse amount of game

628
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: styles and backstories and play and all this stuff, and

629
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: it really does, you know, I think, lend itself. But yeah,

630
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: my hope is Pagola takes this momentum and runs away

631
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: with it, because again, the tour is really good when

632
00:28:58,840 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: she's winning big tournaments.

633
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, you would argue that Jess is

634
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: sort of coming into her own after a great US

635
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: Open where she came so close to making another final,

636
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: and and I would argue that Emma, you know, having

637
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: her back inside like the top twenty and really pushing

638
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: these plays. When I was watching that match, I thought, hmm,

639
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: I think Emma Radakanu can make another semi of a Slam, yeah,

640
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: and a Major and maybe even a final. She keeps

641
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: playing like this because there are a lot of parts

642
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: of her game that can get even better. And so

643
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 2: you know, when you've won a major title before, you

644
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: know how to do it, so I do. I wouldn't

645
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,959
Speaker 2: have said this two years ago that she would make

646
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: it back inside the top ten, but I actually do

647
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: think she can make it back inside the top ten.

648
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: And you know me, Caitlin, I don't say those things.

649
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: No, you don't, you don't.

650
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: Can we just talk about the fact that Medvedev, even

651
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: though he's had the worst year of all time, still

652
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: refuses to lose Ti Zveref.

653
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: One thing he's not going to do, yeah, is lose

654
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: to Alexander Zev. Ever, and said somebody on social media

655
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: being like, you know, even when Daniell Medvedev is losing

656
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: to taxi drivers and janitors out here, he's still not

657
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: going to lose Ta Zverev. And thank you for your service.

658
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: This has been a crazy year to watch you play, Donnas.

659
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: You'r US Open was insane.

660
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: Your US Open, your US Summer swing was insane, with

661
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: the bash, with the I've never seen someone could pitulate

662
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: after a loss more than I saw him capitulate in Washington, DC,

663
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: where he threw a racket from mid court after losing

664
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: the match, arguably on the most crazy match point I

665
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: think I've ever seen in my whole entire life. And

666
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: that's saying something because I've seen some pretty crazy shit

667
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: and then almost pitching it into the crowd and then

668
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: literally we've all we've all seen that Satan dry it

669
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: the water drop drink bottles you know that are made

670
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: of steel, essentially him absolutely crushing two of them. It

671
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: was just And then the next week he just walked

672
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: off the court and left his rackets. I mean he

673
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: was going through a mental breakdown, there's no question. But

674
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: sadly for ol many it looked like he's like getting

675
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: his shit back together. He's finally worked with a new

676
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 2: coach in Thomas Johansen, which is a great move and

677
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: nothing to say anything about his old coach, who I

678
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: loved and who had an incredible relationship and run with mehdi,

679
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: But it's time you need a new voice, and he's

680
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: got a new voice in Thomas Johanssen. So he wins

681
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: that match. He looks great, he's got his shit together

682
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: and Thomas Johnson Swedish, so he's not going to put

683
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: up with all this, you know, absolute nonsense on the court.

684
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: But sadly he had to default or quit today against

685
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: Leerna Tien. Can we just talk about Learner Tiene? Yeah,

686
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: the dude only beats good players. It's crazy.

687
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: I guess if you have to go out and have

688
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: a record that's lapseated. You would want to have the

689
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: finals a top of Beijing, top ten, you know, sniper status.

690
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 3: That's unbelievable.

691
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: He loses sometimes bafflingly, but when he wins, he wins big.

692
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

693
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: I mean I'm just good. Good for you, dude. I

694
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: mean here he is. Is he in Beijing?

695
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: Is it in Beijing that he been in Darren Beijing? Oh?

696
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: So he's in the finals of Beijing Finals. It's a

697
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: ATP five hundred in Beijing. It's not a thousand. That

698
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: WTA is a w TA one thousand and in Beijing.

699
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: But the guys is a five hundred. But still, it's like,

700
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: way to go, dude, No, unbelievable way to go.

701
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: Do you think he gets past center in the final? No,

702
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: hard to imagine. You know, he beats he beats group

703
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: players when he plays well.

704
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: Here's the thing.

705
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: Yanick lost a set to Alex Deemenor, And I am

706
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: so happy for Alex Demonor that he won a set

707
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: because that will make him not feel so bad because

708
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: every time he plays Janick Cinner he gets crushed.

709
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 3: It's because I told you.

710
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: I've told you this on the pod everyone, I've never

711
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: seen a player play so well and have absolutely zero

712
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: chance of beating someone with he stray and open. In

713
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 2: that match that they played, it was like it was

714
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: like demon all was playing incredible, wasn't missing a ball

715
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: and literally had no chance to win against Yanick. So

716
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: it's nice that he got a set, and certainly I

717
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 2: think it will be an incredibly entertaining match with Leon

718
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: because he is going to go out.

719
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: They're like, ma fu get and I've got nothing to lose,

720
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 3: and you know what I do. I beat really good players. Sure,

721
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: so this will be a test for learners where he

722
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: really is at. But there's no.

723
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: Question that Learna ten is a top at least a

724
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: top twenty player for sure, no question he can be

725
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: in the top ten the way he plays. He is

726
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: so good and having Michael Chang now coaching him really

727
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 2: helps him think bigger term, right, And that's the thing

728
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: about having these former great players on your bag and

729
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: coaching you. If they've done it themselves like Thomas Johansen

730
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: has done, like Michael Chang has done, they understand what

731
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: to say to you in certain times of a tournament

732
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: and a match and after you win matches of how

733
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: to prepare you for the next match, and not getting

734
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: ahead of yourself and actually saying to you, what do

735
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: you mean you don't think you can win this match? Right,

736
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: That's where it's important to have somebody around you that

737
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: can make you think differently, right, that can make you

738
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: think bigger.

739
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: And everyone out there who's listening to this, it's.

740
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: Probably like, well, yeah, you know, you all go to business,

741
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 2: you all go to your jobs, you all have work.

742
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: If someone believes in you and tells you what you

743
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: can do better and how to get better and what

744
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: you can and achieve at.

745
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: Work, you're like, my boss believes in me.

746
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm going to put that work in

747
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: or maybe I can get that managerial job. Maybe I

748
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 2: can get maybe I can be CEO one day. If

749
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: my CEO believes in me. It's the same in tennis.

750
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: It's exactly the same in tennis. The lif does wonders.

751
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

752
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: So if when you have somebody that you respect and

753
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: look up to tell you those things, man, it makes

754
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: the difference. So I think Michael Chang is really helping

755
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 2: him in that regard. It's sort of similar to Conchitita

756
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: Martinez when she started working with Miran Dreva. It's like

757
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: when you have a great former player who said not

758
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: only a great career in tennis herself, but also a

759
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 2: great coaching career and taking people to winning Grand Slams.

760
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: You believe them when they tell you that stuff because

761
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: you know they're not full of shit, because they're not

762
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: going to say It's like if I tell someone they

763
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: can be in the top ten, I'm not going to

764
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: say that just because you know, I want them to

765
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: feel good about themselves. I'm not going to tell them

766
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 2: they can be top ten. I can say they can

767
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: be top twenty, and then they go, great, God, you

768
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: really believe in me. And then maybe if they get

769
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: into the top twenty, you go, you know what, now

770
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: that I see it, I think you can be top ten.

771
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: So it's you have to have trust in the per

772
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 2: and that you're working with, and so I think Michael

773
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: Chang is going to make an incredible difference there.

774
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: So it's fun to see Michael Chang back in the

775
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: tennis spear in a big way. Both of us who

776
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: grew up playing with his rackets. Yeah, well he was

777
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: pump you know, rebuck.

778
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 3: He was my age.

779
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 2: So well, the thing I did wear were those Rebuck pumps.

780
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: The pumps, so me and Lisa Raymond, we remember we'd

781
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 2: get them and put him on. Lisa Raymond loved those shoes.

782
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: She pumped the side of the thing and they would.

783
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: Let me tell you something, Rebuck, you should bring those back.

784
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: They should. I know, Rebuk was They kind of tried to,

785
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: didn't they They did. I don't know what happened, but

786
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: I would love to see them dray again now that

787
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: we've got Michael Chang on our screens.

788
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: It was awesome.

789
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: Carlos Alcarez played a match against Casperu the other day.

790
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: It was so fun and it was interesting to me

791
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 2: because we talked about it at the US Open. The

792
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 2: way he won that tournament was that he didn't lose

793
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: a set basically, right except you know, when he played Yannick,

794
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: but like throughout the whole tournament, he didn't.

795
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 3: Lose the set. He was so focused.

796
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 2: I think he realized, like, if I'm going to win

797
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: these slams against Yannick, I cannot go four or five

798
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: sets every single match and have a like little mental

799
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: walk about, you know, which he does from time to time.

800
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: And it's like, dude, you cannot have mental walkabouts and

801
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: go three sets.

802
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 3: Well he did that against Rude.

803
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: He went into a little bit of la la land

804
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 2: last his opening set and then got his shit together

805
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 2: and one in three sets. But it's interesting when he's

806
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 2: playing best of three and not playing a slam how

807
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: he's kind of still has those little mental walkabouts.

808
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 3: But he got the job done. I love the hair.

809
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: I love the hair. Yeah, me too. I'm into it. No,

810
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 3: for sure, I'm into it.

811
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: We have By the way, have we ever figured out

812
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: what the tattoo is? Has he ever?

813
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: You haven't seen it yet? No, but I will get

814
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 2: to the bottom of you. I will tell him to

815
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: take his shirt off.

816
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 1: You think it's on his top, buddy.

817
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: I think it's probably on his top, buddy. Okay, I'll

818
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 2: be sure to find out. Don't you worry people, because

819
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: that bet that he made about the Brooklyn Bridge was

820
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: with me.

821
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's serious.

822
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: Even said it on ESPN's coverage when he said, I

823
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: have to get the Brooklyn Bridge because I made a

824
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 2: bet with somebody before the tournament that was with me,

825
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: and we have it on film. Go to Tennis channel

826
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: looking up all right, guys, Well, eagercon Tech is also

827
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: playing great I am.

828
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: I'm super pumped.

829
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: Alcarez beat Taylor Fritz in the final there and straight sets.

830
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: Talk about getting your shit together and winning it quickly.

831
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: That was a very quick rump. It was it was,

832
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: it was clean.

833
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm excited. What I'm watching in Beijing is I'm watching Evalise.

834
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: She's how about that one I've a rebuked to watch.

835
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: She's so fast. I watched her a lot at the

836
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: US Open because she's you know, they put her on

837
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 1: outside courts because she's not a super big.

838
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: Nice she's not.

839
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: She's fisty and a fader. She's got kind of Pawelini

840
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: vibes to me, which is like small, fast and fun,

841
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: which is a combo. I like. I'm also watching to

842
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: see how chin Wen looks after her well surgery.

843
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: Well, she's had to pull out, which you're saying, like

844
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: continually for this reason.

845
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: See how she ends the season, because well, she's always

846
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 1: such a yamic player.

847
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 3: Three Love and third decided to stop.

848
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably realize that, you know, maybe it was starting

849
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: to hurt her a little bit, and didn't want to

850
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 2: push through it, knowing how important it was not to

851
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 2: do that, but also knowing how important it was to

852
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 2: play in Beijing because it's such a big tournament for

853
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: her and for her Chinese fans.

854
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 3: And for the w t A Tour.

855
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 2: So it's nice to searr out then competing and clearly

856
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: you know, but that's where you once it gets to

857
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: a point where you're like, am I gonna? Am I

858
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 2: going to go back three months here if I keep

859
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: continuing to play this match. So I'm sure it was

860
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: incredibly hard. But we have seen a lot of pullouts

861
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: in this tournament, like walkovers and people quitting in the

862
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: middle of matches, which again goes back to our original conversation,

863
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 2: which is about fucking we need some re hard Yeah,

864
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: it's not we need to reform the tennis world. Now

865
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: that there's all these new fans and everyone has, you know,

866
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: a stake in the game, let's let's get you know,

867
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: let's make the best possible product. The best possible product

868
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: is not an unfocused, unwieldy, injury plagued circus that can't

869
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the w NBA, and you know

870
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: how I'd love to bring a little WNBA, but it's

871
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 2: the same as WNBA.

872
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 3: There's so many injuries this year, and.

873
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 2: It's because the schedule is so unbelievably condensed and brutal

874
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: and physical, just like tennis a little bit different.

875
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: You can't hit your tennis opponent. If you do, you're

876
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: out of there.

877
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: But my point is physicality as in running and hitting,

878
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: and it's hard and these a lot of top players

879
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: are getting into visicalia Caitlin Clark like it's happening on

880
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: the regular basis. So like tennis and like the WNBA,

881
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: it's like the bigger and more popular and more money

882
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: that's going to these athletes. You have to take care

883
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 2: of them better, you know, because if they're not there,

884
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: that is a problem. And so yes, I think what

885
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: we talked about at the start of this pot is

886
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: super important and that's where that's where we need to

887
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: be better of protecting them and taking care of them.

888
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: And this is where an opportunity with the players and

889
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: the majors and the heads of the tours need to

890
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 2: recognize they need to change something.

891
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, hopefully a lawsuit will do that. We'll do that.

892
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: Law suit can change a lot of things.

893
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: Can All right, let's wrap it up and see how

894
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: our favorites fare in another week or so. As we

895
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: look to the end of the season. Thanks so much

896
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: for having me over. Hey, you're welcome after it's all