Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Caroline Hide and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York and Caroline Hyde and I'm Tim
Speaker 2: Steinbeck in San Francisco.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 4: Technology coming up in video.
Speaker 5: CEO Jensen Wang unveils new AI chips and technology at
Speaker 5: the company's annual Developer conference, but fails to wow investors
Speaker 5: will have all the details. Plus China's ten Cent posts
Speaker 5: its fastest revenue growth since twenty twenty three for the
Speaker 5: company planning to ramp up AI spending and cloud flare
Speaker 5: out with new cybersecurity products aimed to help safeguard against
Speaker 5: AI vulnerabilities. Who speak with the CEO Matthew Prince a
Speaker 5: first rechecking on these markets which are not all consumed
Speaker 5: with AI but instead all consumed with the FED.
Speaker 4: We're currently up eight.
Speaker 5: Five ten percent on the Nasdaq one hundred, bouncing back
Speaker 5: off what had been a significant sell off yesterday, and
Speaker 5: overall we still contend with the macro forces versus the
Speaker 5: micro on the points higher, though Apple doing well to
Speaker 5: push the NASDAK one hundred higher so to is in
Speaker 5: video when we go into that particular name.
Speaker 4: As GtC continues, we're up nine tens percent.
Speaker 5: Remember it fell three point four percent yesterday as Jenson
Speaker 5: Wang took to the stage unveiling our whole host of
Speaker 5: new AI improvements chips that move from the Blackwell Ultra
Speaker 5: onto vira Ubin. We used to also get a new
Speaker 5: scientist name for the next iteration, but tim it didn't
Speaker 5: wow investors.
Speaker 3: It feels it didn't.
Speaker 6: There's always today and there's always the rest of the week.
Speaker 6: From more on in video, Man Deep saying a Bloomberg
Speaker 6: Intelligence joins us. Now Mandeep, there's this narrative emerging that
Speaker 6: AI costs are just getting out of control. What did
Speaker 6: we see yesterday? What did you see yesterday from Nvidia
Speaker 6: said to customers, you're getting more value out of what
Speaker 6: we're bringing you.
Speaker 2: Well, one, there was a clear shift towards reasoning, and
Speaker 2: you know the fact that he said reasoning requires one
Speaker 2: hundred times more compute. So from that perspective, you know,
Speaker 2: the demand trends seem to be reassuring coming from Nvidia,
Speaker 2: and clearly they are ahead when it comes to you know,
Speaker 2: the performance per what that everyone seems to be focused
Speaker 2: on with these chips, and look, you could argue, you know,
Speaker 2: there isn't a new end market on the horizon, even
Speaker 2: though they announced, you know, the partnership with GM or
Speaker 2: the Humanoids was part of the keynote as well. But
Speaker 2: to me, it's still all about data centers and servers,
Speaker 2: and they seem to have a very clear roadmap till
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven in terms of what kind of performance
Speaker 2: improvements they're looking with the next version of their chips.
Speaker 5: I think via Rubin expected to three x the improvements
Speaker 5: on Blackwell Ultra. We get Feynman being the next name
Speaker 5: for the future platform a focus. But look, analysts overall
Speaker 5: once again declaring that the moat is strong, that maybe
Speaker 5: eight years ahead of the competition. If you're talking to
Speaker 5: certain hyperscalers, what more can you do to douce what's
Speaker 5: currently in the valuation right now?
Speaker 2: Well, so, if you look at the trajectory of Nvidia's numbers,
Speaker 2: they've always moved to the upside because they have come
Speaker 2: up with something new or you know, an additional customer
Speaker 2: that is of the same ramp.
Speaker 3: Up all time.
Speaker 4: It's not new enough for that.
Speaker 2: Well, so you have to look at the hyper scale investment,
Speaker 2: and they are all developing their own A six. So
Speaker 2: the fact that you have competition on the horizon, even
Speaker 2: though Nvidia is way ahead of everyone else in terms
Speaker 2: of performance, but you just can't rule out the fact
Speaker 2: that A six are a real possibility. That's what Broadcom
Speaker 2: called out, and to me, that competitive environment will get challenging.
Speaker 2: And look, they made the pivot to reasoning after Deep Seek.
Speaker 2: This wasn't six they're six months back. It was all
Speaker 2: about pre training. The keynote this time around was all
Speaker 2: about inferencing and reasoning. So they're very good at making
Speaker 2: those pivots. But the fact is the market keeps evolving
Speaker 2: and I think A six are still a real threat
Speaker 2: when it comes to in video sales at the data
Speaker 2: center level. Yes, it's a one trillion dollar market, but
Speaker 2: who can give the assurance that it will be in
Speaker 2: Vidia who captures most of that in market because your
Speaker 2: competition is the four or five main hyperscalers that are
Speaker 2: still looking to develop that ac.
Speaker 4: Option frenemies continue.
Speaker 5: Man Deep seeing of Blue meg Intelligence love having him. Meanwhile,
Speaker 5: a wider investor look now at in Nvidia and some
Speaker 5: of the others in the chip sector, Kim forrest A
Speaker 5: Capital Partners CIO joins us and Kim. We mentioned how
Speaker 5: their own clients are becoming their competitors. Not to mention
Speaker 5: AMD still trying to be and also Ran in this space,
Speaker 5: not to mention Intel really languishing. But can Invidia remain
Speaker 5: the king when it comes to AI?
Speaker 7: Well maybe I think it's a strong maybe there, and
Speaker 7: maybe they do rule the hardware world or a lot
Speaker 7: of it, because you know, there really is no substitute
Speaker 7: right now. Here's the thing, though, human beings are incredibly inventive,
Speaker 7: and in Nvidia, although they always trot out the fact
Speaker 7: that they have software that developers may use, I think
Speaker 7: the very largest developers that are using these chips are
Speaker 7: writing their own software, not depending on KUDA.
Speaker 8: So keep that in the.
Speaker 9: Back of your mind.
Speaker 7: But I believe what deep Seek has shown the investing
Speaker 7: world is there's more than one way to skin a cat,
Speaker 7: and just throwing really expensive chips and tons of chips
Speaker 7: at a problem is not always the answer. So I'm
Speaker 7: looking out there for innovation in the software world to
Speaker 7: make the build out of a data center a little
Speaker 7: less like key into developing AI in the future, software
Speaker 7: less hardware Kim.
Speaker 6: Do you think that the market has fully priced in
Speaker 6: the impact of deep seek?
Speaker 10: No?
Speaker 7: Actually, and I think this is a really difficult area
Speaker 7: to talk about AI without really nerding out. So let's
Speaker 7: keep it at the fifty thousand foot level.
Speaker 4: This is a show to not out on, Kim. This
Speaker 4: is a show to net out on.
Speaker 7: I'm just saying, okay, yeah, I'm yeah, okay, I'm trying
Speaker 7: to restrain myself. But here's here's what I see is
Speaker 7: the essential problem is there are limitations in the physical
Speaker 7: world power. You know, how quickly you can build a
Speaker 7: data center, how quickly you can build chips, the machines
Speaker 7: that create these exotic chips, how quickly you can build that.
Speaker 7: It's all, you know, a physical world problem. In many ways,
Speaker 7: software is exactly what we've used in the past to
Speaker 7: become more productive, and why not use it on AI itself,
Speaker 7: to use these data centers that we already have and
Speaker 7: rethink the software and the training, testing and validation kind
Speaker 7: of exercises we do to build large language models. Why
Speaker 7: not make that better by better software?
Speaker 3: Crazy, Well, you have.
Speaker 6: The background to nerd out on this, because before finance,
Speaker 6: you spend more than a decade working on this stuff.
Speaker 6: I mean this was twenty years ago, so you've been
Speaker 6: thinking about this stuff for.
Speaker 3: A long time.
Speaker 6: But now, do the economics of inference work? Do the
Speaker 6: economics of agentic models work right now?
Speaker 7: I don't think so, because they're so expensive to build
Speaker 7: and it doesn't look like people are lining up to
Speaker 7: buy it. I mean, is it really that simple? I
Speaker 7: think the answer is yes. I have not been convinced
Speaker 7: that there is a strong enough problem that can be
Speaker 7: easily identified and thus monetized in AI. I think it's
Speaker 7: the future, absolutely, but I think that businesses who have
Speaker 7: to put their assets at risk buying this stuff.
Speaker 8: And then using it.
Speaker 7: And remember a lot of language large language models are
Speaker 7: eighty five to ninety five percent correct, and that is underwhelming.
Speaker 7: You know, if you're going to build your business on
Speaker 7: something that's incorrect, you know, fifteen to ten to fifteen
Speaker 7: percent of the time. Yeah, these are real world problems
Speaker 7: that we have to get unexcited about and fix. And
Speaker 7: again my answer is software, because that's what I what
Speaker 7: about my book. I know that that area, as opposed
Speaker 7: to building better hardware, we'll.
Speaker 4: Go to the software.
Speaker 5: Go to the newly released open source software dynamo and look,
Speaker 5: there's growing that that makes deep sinks are one thirty
Speaker 5: x faster when you run this new open source software
Speaker 5: being offered by n videos. So are they not adapting
Speaker 5: quickly enough because it centainly feels as though they've gone
Speaker 5: answer for everything.
Speaker 8: Well, I think we really have to do is attack.
Speaker 7: I mean, faster is better, right, But then how do
Speaker 7: we stop wrong answers? That's where the humans have to
Speaker 7: come in and kind of build stuff around that to
Speaker 7: wall off the bad answers. And you know, whenever I
Speaker 7: was doing this back in the late nineties, that's where
Speaker 7: a lot of our time was spent on refining the models,
Speaker 7: was to make sure that we weren't returning bad answers.
Speaker 7: And I don't really see that as a focus. And
Speaker 7: again I'm talking my book what I know, And it's
Speaker 7: still a problem. That's the crazy thing, you know, thirty
Speaker 7: years later, wrong answers are still a problem.
Speaker 6: Kim forrest A Bocha Capital Partners is Kim always great
Speaker 6: to check in with.
Speaker 3: You appreciate you joining us today.
Speaker 6: Meanwhile, as many as four hundred thousand in Vidio chips
Speaker 6: are set to have a new home in the small
Speaker 6: city of Abilene, Texas. It's the site of the first
Speaker 6: data center complex, or open AI's Stargate infrastructure venture. According
Speaker 6: to the developer the prom project, it will be completed
Speaker 6: by mid twenty twenty six with support for hundreds of
Speaker 6: thousands of AI chips, though no word yet on how
Speaker 6: many chips have been committed to the project so far.
Speaker 5: Caroline, coming up, we're talking connectivity and connectivity firm cloud
Speaker 5: Flair introducing new AI tools to take on vulnerabilities. When
Speaker 5: we're speaking with a CEO, Matthew Prince.
Speaker 4: That's next. This is room meg Technology.
Speaker 6: Cloud connectivity firm cloud Flare is in the midst of
Speaker 6: its annual security Week, announcing a slew of new products,
Speaker 6: including one to help safeguard against AI vulnerabilities. Here to
Speaker 6: discusses cloud Flare CEO Matthew Prince. Matthew just announced cloud
Speaker 6: Flare for AI this week. It essentially allows customers to
Speaker 6: safely use and develop AI tech. Up to now, though,
Speaker 6: what has been the problem, what has been the challenge?
Speaker 3: What has been the vulnerability?
Speaker 11: Thing that's really hard in the AI spaces, as your
Speaker 11: last segment was talking about, is everyone's just rushing as
Speaker 11: fast as possible everyone's bored is saying what are we
Speaker 11: doing in AI? And everyone is trying to go as
Speaker 11: fast as possible and what that means is mistakes get made,
Speaker 11: Data that shouldn't leave your enterprise gets sucked.
Speaker 9: Up into an AI model.
Speaker 11: People, maybe you're using AI in a way which might
Speaker 11: embarrass you or your firm. And what we've heard from
Speaker 11: our customers is that they want guardrails, they want controls
Speaker 11: to be able to make sure that even as they
Speaker 11: go as fast as possible, they're not going to break anything,
Speaker 11: which is really really important.
Speaker 9: And so that's what we're launching with cloud Flare for AI, and.
Speaker 11: We're really excited to see already customers using it to
Speaker 11: make sure they can go as fast as possible but
Speaker 11: not make those critical mistakes.
Speaker 9: In the space of AI.
Speaker 5: MAV you've got so many current security offerings already when
Speaker 5: you think about web applications, firewalls of ability, API protection.
Speaker 5: What's new here in terms of cloud Flare for AI.
Speaker 5: Is it a new bundling thematic or is there really
Speaker 5: new offerings coming?
Speaker 11: You know, I think that it is a combination of
Speaker 11: building on the foundation that we have where we can
Speaker 11: process just vast amounts of data flowing through our systems,
Speaker 11: do analysis do those controls? But then adding on top
Speaker 11: of it, not just how are we looking for hackers,
Speaker 11: how are we looking for threats?
Speaker 9: But how are we actually looking for the ways.
Speaker 11: That people might be using AI in a way that
Speaker 11: might be embarrassing to a company, in a way that
Speaker 11: might be revealing secrets that are there. And I think
Speaker 11: part of what's powerful here is, yes, we have a
Speaker 11: whole bunch of customers that care about keeping their use
Speaker 11: of AI secure, but a lot of the AI companies,
Speaker 11: in fact, most of the major AI companies also use Cloubler.
Speaker 9: So we've been able to actually.
Speaker 11: Integrate those two sides in a way that give you
Speaker 11: a holistic offering and make sure that you can again
Speaker 11: go as fast as possible with AI, but do it
Speaker 11: in a way which is secure and has real guardrails.
Speaker 5: That speed, that desire to get out in front. When
Speaker 5: it comes to AI, many would cass as hype. Can
Speaker 5: you just set the broader context here of whether you
Speaker 5: think the AI hype is turning into AI productivity reality?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 11: You know, I think there's anytime you have something which
Speaker 11: is as disruptive a new technology is AI. There are
Speaker 11: going to be a certain amount of money which is
Speaker 11: spent on it, which is just lit on fire. And
Speaker 11: I think that's just the reality that's there. But what
Speaker 11: we're seeing is that there's real value which is being
Speaker 11: created as well. And so even if we assume that
Speaker 11: only one percent of what's being done today turns into value,
Speaker 11: what we see from our customers, what we see from
Speaker 11: the AI companies that are out there, is that that
Speaker 11: one percent has the opportunity to have enormous returns. And
Speaker 11: so again, I think anyone who's not doing at least
Speaker 11: something experimenting in AI is probably missing the boat here.
Speaker 11: And again I don't hear a lot of customers that
Speaker 11: are saying, Gosh, we're going to shut down our AI efforts. Instead,
Speaker 11: I think people are stepping on the accelerator, finding more
Speaker 11: ways to use this. And again I think we have
Speaker 11: to acknowledge some of this is going to be just
Speaker 11: lighting money on fire, but a lot of it is
Speaker 11: going to turn into real innovation over the long term.
Speaker 6: Matthew and investors watching right now probably are wondering how
Speaker 6: big of a business does this turn into. For cloud Flair,
Speaker 6: what are you modeling internally?
Speaker 11: Again, we don't forecast anything in particular, but what I
Speaker 11: will say is customers are coming to us, and this
Speaker 11: was a real demand that was driven by our customers
Speaker 11: saying you are extremely well positioned to be able to
Speaker 11: solve this problem.
Speaker 9: This is something that we want and that we want
Speaker 9: you to build.
Speaker 11: And so I think that that gives us a lot
Speaker 11: of confidence that as we invest in this space, that
Speaker 11: is something where there will be real returns. It's something
Speaker 11: that customers want, it's something that the largest enterprises are
Speaker 11: realizing that.
Speaker 9: They need that they can't just.
Speaker 11: Go at the full throttle without those guardrails in place.
Speaker 11: And because of the unique position that cloud Flairer is in,
Speaker 11: we can deliver those guardrails and make sure that you
Speaker 11: can use AI safely.
Speaker 5: Because you're offering the platform to build to deploy the apps,
Speaker 5: you're also offering the security. But paint a picture of
Speaker 5: the ecosystem right now because people might be thinking, Okay,
Speaker 5: your competitors are like AWS and fastly. But then there's
Speaker 5: this deal with Google buying wiz and what that does
Speaker 5: for overall security of infrastructure, cloud infrastructure.
Speaker 4: Where do you fit in with cloud flair Matthew, I.
Speaker 11: Mean those are all very different companies, and I think
Speaker 11: the first thing to say is congratulate to the Whiz team.
Speaker 11: It's incredibly hard to build companies, and the fact that
Speaker 11: they so quickly generate build something that had enormous value
Speaker 11: and we're able to sell it to Google, I think
Speaker 11: is something that again deserves an incredible amount of tip
Speaker 11: of the hat to them and what they're doing.
Speaker 9: I think the fact that Google had to build Whiz.
Speaker 11: Just shows how security has to be part of any
Speaker 11: cloud platform, and cloud Flair really started with security, and
Speaker 11: I think that's given us a huge advantage over over time.
Speaker 11: Wiz is really great at identifying what an enterprise's security
Speaker 11: vulnerabilities are. And what we're proud of at cloud Flair
Speaker 11: is that we have actually been the solution once Wiz
Speaker 11: that identified the problem to actually solving the security problem
Speaker 11: behind the scenes, where they're recommending us as that solution.
Speaker 9: Google's been a long term partner of cloud Flair. We
Speaker 9: hope that will continue.
Speaker 11: I expect that will continue over over time, and I
Speaker 11: think integrating Whiz actually makes it make more sense for
Speaker 11: them to be integrating closely with cloud Flair and being
Speaker 11: able to deliver our.
Speaker 9: Services as one seamless, offering some of.
Speaker 5: The best as I perspective of the internet. Writ large,
Speaker 5: we love having you on Matthew prints cloud flairer CEO.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much, Tim I forgot well.
Speaker 3: So I'm now for talking tech.
Speaker 6: First up, Google launch Date redesigned version of its budget
Speaker 6: Pixel phone, upgrading the chip and battery life weeks after
Speaker 6: Apple's lower end iPhone sixteen went on sale. The new
Speaker 6: Pixel nine A costs four hundred and ninety nine dollars,
Speaker 6: in line with the price of last year's Pixel eight
Speaker 6: A plus. Tesla was granted approval to begin carrying passengers
Speaker 6: in California. The approval does not allow Tesla to offer
Speaker 6: rides in autonomous vehicles, but a ride hailing business with
Speaker 6: human drivers could pave the way for Tesla to eventually
Speaker 6: introduce robotaxi service in the state where Weimo already operates
Speaker 6: here in San Francisco, and Shaomi is working to expand
Speaker 6: its production capabilities to meet demand. This comes after it
Speaker 6: raised its twenty twenty five delivery target for evs to
Speaker 6: three hundred and fifty thousand units, reflecting inroads into the
Speaker 6: Chinese EV market. Shami Group Vice president and CFO A
Speaker 6: Lamb joined a Bloomberg Television in an exclusive interview to
Speaker 6: weigh in on this.
Speaker 10: You see a couple of our evs right that, the
Speaker 10: red one being the Strew seven, and then the yellow one,
Speaker 10: which is something that we just launched, is our s
Speaker 10: U seven Ultra, which we are start selling at a
Speaker 10: starting price of over five hundred thousand RMP. We are
Speaker 10: running one factory right now in Beijing which is fully
Speaker 10: rammed up. We are working very hard to squeeze the
Speaker 10: extra production volume out of that out of that factory.
Speaker 10: But at the same time, obviously we need to continue
Speaker 10: to expand our production capabilities by adding new production sites.
Speaker 5: Ten Cent posted its fastest pace of revenue grows is
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three revenue rising eleven percent for the three months.
Speaker 4: Ending in December, and it also shed some light on
Speaker 4: its AI ambitions.
Speaker 5: Makes Henry ren joys us now for a breakdown and
Speaker 5: ponymar are really setting out that they're kind of going
Speaker 5: to do in AI what they did for gaming with
Speaker 5: their own but also of the third parties.
Speaker 12: Indeed, so so breakdown for results shows that the company
Speaker 12: is doing pretty strong across it's all its business lines,
Speaker 12: from gamings to social network of free chat as well
Speaker 12: as the payment and fintech, but of course AI is
Speaker 12: the key business focused for today, and the company said
Speaker 12: that it made it so called emergency purchase of GPUs
Speaker 12: in the fourth quarter because it was seeing a search
Speaker 12: in AI demound. And indeed we're seeing this coming through
Speaker 12: on the revenue side of things as well, because the
Speaker 12: company said that it's AI cloud business double this revenue
Speaker 12: in the fourth quarter. And just to give you a
Speaker 12: sense of things in terms of how much the company
Speaker 12: is spending on AI these days, the company said that
Speaker 12: it's fourth quarter capital spending quadrupled from the same quarter
Speaker 12: in twenty twenty three. So it really shows you the
Speaker 12: urgency that the company is having in terms of catching
Speaker 12: up on other Chinese big tech companies in terms of
Speaker 12: you know, enhancing its AI capabilities.
Speaker 6: Whomberg's Henry Wrenn joining us from London. Henry, good to
Speaker 6: see you, Thanks so much. Meanwhile, Elon Musk invested a
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty million dollars to acquire more shares
Speaker 6: in X last year at evaluation, approaching the price he
Speaker 6: paid for the company's equity back in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 6: Woomberg's Kurt Wagner joins us now with more Kurt, what's
Speaker 6: the endgame here?
Speaker 3: Does he just want to own the entire thing?
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean he already owns around seventy five percent
Speaker 13: of X, So I'm not sure how much of this is.
Speaker 13: You know, buying one hundred and fifty million more in
Speaker 13: shares is not going to dramatically change his ownership. It
Speaker 13: could be he was, you know, buying out somebody who
Speaker 13: wanted out. I think more than that, it's it's perhaps
Speaker 13: a signal, right that this company is still valued at
Speaker 13: where he or close to where he purchased it. We
Speaker 13: know they're out raising money right now from other investors,
Speaker 13: and so maybe having that sale at the end of
Speaker 13: last year sort of setting the benchmark, right, Like, if
Speaker 13: Elon's willing to buy in close to what he paid
Speaker 13: for it, maybe others should as well. So perhaps it
Speaker 13: was a little bit more of a signal than anything.
Speaker 5: The signal was an amazing deep dive by you and
Speaker 5: other reporters into Kingdom Holdings and your report. That's a
Speaker 5: Saudi investment firm that seems to where we got the
Speaker 5: tip off that he was offering these sorts of prices
Speaker 5: for the equity.
Speaker 4: Overall, the business seems to be improving.
Speaker 13: Right, Yeah, well that's that's sort of the narrative, and
Speaker 13: there's signs that point to that, right. Number one, the
Speaker 13: fact that they're out trying to raise at this forty
Speaker 13: four billion dollar price tag is one sign we know,
Speaker 13: and we've talked about this on the show, that the
Speaker 13: banks that we're holding all of X's debt have been
Speaker 13: able to sort of offload that at around the same
Speaker 13: price at which they loaned it a couple of years ago.
Speaker 13: And we have heard stories of advertisers returning. Now, I
Speaker 13: will caution on the advertiser front, X and Elon are
Speaker 13: also suing a bunch of advertisers, right, So there is
Speaker 13: some fear out there in the market that, hey, if
Speaker 13: we're not spending on X, we're sort of opening ourselves
Speaker 13: up to a potential legal dispute with this company. Maybe
Speaker 13: we throw them some money to avoid that. But yes,
Speaker 13: there are some signs that, you know, perhaps things are
Speaker 13: certainly better than they were, you know, six months ago.
Speaker 6: Current you wrote the book on this, How is the
Speaker 6: product change under Elon Musk's ownership. I mean, we've all
Speaker 6: seen what the experience has been like, but how has
Speaker 6: the product actually changed?
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean I can only speak for myself here,
Speaker 13: but I would say the biggest thing is that the
Speaker 13: news value of Twitter or now X, in my opinion,
Speaker 13: has gone down right. I remember the first Trump presidency
Speaker 13: how much news was coming out of that administration, and
Speaker 13: Twitter was really like.
Speaker 9: A must have for me.
Speaker 13: I think the changes that Elon has made around verification,
Speaker 13: I think the changes they made around the ranking has
Speaker 13: just in my opinion, made it less useful as a
Speaker 13: news venue, and especially it's been hightened to me, given
Speaker 13: the fact that we're in this Trump you know, two
Speaker 13: point zero presidency and we're seeing that news cycle again
Speaker 13: pickup just like we did during the first time around.
Speaker 13: I just don't feel like I'm getting news through X
Speaker 13: in the way that I used.
Speaker 9: To through Twitter.
Speaker 13: And I think the verification thing in particular has a
Speaker 13: lot to do with that.
Speaker 5: I spy Battle for the burd just over your shoulder.
Speaker 5: Brim bes Kote Wagner on the book, We thank you.
Speaker 5: Welcome back to Bluemoge Technology. I'm Caroline Hide in New.
Speaker 6: York and I'm Tim Stanoveeck in San Francisco.
Speaker 5: It's checking on these Markets tim because gone a little
Speaker 5: bit of a reprieve ahead of the FED. Of course,
Speaker 5: two pm New York time, we get what is the
Speaker 5: ultimate transcript? But then you get the press conference coming
Speaker 5: from Jpower. What will you say about the overall economy?
Speaker 5: Of of course, we're expecting no move in terms of rates,
Speaker 5: but we're up nine tens percent as some of the
Speaker 5: tech names catch a bid on.
Speaker 4: The higher side.
Speaker 5: Apple leaves the child in terms of points, but drill
Speaker 5: into actual individual moves.
Speaker 4: Apple at one point four percent.
Speaker 5: Even as a European commission once again coming out strong
Speaker 5: telling Apple to loosen its control over its iPhone operating
Speaker 5: system to comply with the law law being also the
Speaker 5: Digital Markets Act that they're warning Google about as well
Speaker 5: to comply with and eduging that favors it's in house
Speaker 5: services and prevents developers from offering alternatives, aside from, of course,
Speaker 5: the App Store Playstore.
Speaker 4: Move on and have a little.
Speaker 5: Look at what's happening in terms of Meta though, because
Speaker 5: Meta had been your outperformer of choice when it came
Speaker 5: to mag seven so far this year, but finally it
Speaker 5: tumbled into the red for year to date, and we're
Speaker 5: off by another quarter of percent. This time Kathy would
Speaker 5: seemingly uploading some shares she'd been buying them up all
Speaker 5: through last year. But now we understand they've finally taken
Speaker 5: some profit in that meta holding. But let's turn back
Speaker 5: to the markets more broadly now, where please to welcome
Speaker 5: j Jacobs, his US head of Thematic and Active ets
Speaker 5: at black Frog.
Speaker 4: And today is.
Speaker 5: Such a case in point the macro kind of outweighs
Speaker 5: the micro and fundamentals. In video CEO Jensen Wang cannot
Speaker 5: catch the vibes back into his shares and into his
Speaker 5: market capitalization until basically we hear more better Moon music
Speaker 5: out of the fed.
Speaker 14: Well, I think it's that at tension we're seeing, right,
Speaker 14: is this an interest rate driven market? Or is this
Speaker 14: a thematic driven market? And frankly, what we're seeing from
Speaker 14: our investors this year is more thematic. The developments in AI,
Speaker 14: the developments in geopolitics, that's what's driving a lot of
Speaker 14: the investment this year.
Speaker 3: This is why we've seen continued.
Speaker 14: Inflows into AI ETFs like Arty from black Rock. It's
Speaker 14: why we're seeing a lot of interest in areas like
Speaker 14: infrastructure amid geopolitics. But not every day is the same.
Speaker 14: We certainly see this tension playing out in real time.
Speaker 14: Leaning a little bit more thematic this year, though.
Speaker 5: That sounds an odds I would have thought for many
Speaker 5: who feel that they might have lent in but they've
Speaker 5: actually lost money. We started to see investors pull out,
Speaker 5: in particular of some of the big winners, So you're
Speaker 5: saying people are allocating towards them even though ultimately they're
Speaker 5: in the rent for year today, that's right.
Speaker 14: We've seen about fifty million come into our AI related ETFs.
Speaker 14: That's AARTI, which is an index s based ETF around AI,
Speaker 14: and then BAI, which is an actively managed fund where
Speaker 14: we're picking winners within the AI space. So people are
Speaker 14: buying the dip, and I think a lot of it
Speaker 14: comes back to valuation.
Speaker 4: Just feel like it when you're looking at individual names.
Speaker 14: In the fun space, they are and if you look
Speaker 14: at some of the valuations, you have these incredible AI companies,
Speaker 14: some of the biggest, fastest growing that are trading at
Speaker 14: the same pe as seventy five year old fast food
Speaker 14: companies right now. So there is value in AI which
Speaker 14: doesn't seem I wouldn't have said that three months ago,
Speaker 14: but that's absolutely the case right now.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's surprising to hear you say that, because I
Speaker 6: think a lot of people would argue a jay that
Speaker 6: there's still by many measures, these are still very expensive stocks.
Speaker 6: So where specifically are you arguing that there's value lost?
Speaker 4: Audio? Oh, I don't think he can hear you.
Speaker 5: But as we get the connection back again, Tim was
Speaker 5: asking about where exactly you think you're seeing value where,
Speaker 5: because you know, a twenty five twenty six times future
Speaker 5: earnings for video still feels kind of expensive, even if
Speaker 5: it is akin to a seventy five year old restaurant chain.
Speaker 14: Well, I think it's what you're paying for that growth
Speaker 14: Right in the in the absolute, twenty five times earning
Speaker 14: sounds expensive, but when you get you know, earnings growth
Speaker 14: that's you know, thirty percent a year. Right now, you're
Speaker 14: seeing top line revenue growth in the high double digits.
Speaker 14: That is so much far superior towards even the broader
Speaker 14: technology sector, but even the S and P five SMP
Speaker 14: five hundred. More broadly, generally speaking, you're seeing AI companies
Speaker 14: grow twice the speed of the S and P five hundred.
Speaker 14: So it's okay to pay a little bit more for
Speaker 14: those valuations. If you expect to see the growth back
Speaker 14: that up.
Speaker 5: I suppose everyone was in on the hype and now
Speaker 5: it becomes okay, I'm committed to the long term trajectory.
Speaker 5: And Jens Welom did a good job at showing that
Speaker 5: he's still building a moat, that still his company is
Speaker 5: going to be there for the next eight or so years,
Speaker 5: ahead of others, as many analysts would single out.
Speaker 4: But I think in the here and now, people.
Speaker 5: Are seeing an opportunity costume by investing in certain names.
Speaker 4: Are you seeing it's spread out?
Speaker 5: Are you seeing people okay, go, I'll back the energy
Speaker 5: or I'll back in fact, the application of AI rather
Speaker 5: than the infrastructure, the ultimate you know, picks and shovels
Speaker 5: that we've seen committed to of.
Speaker 9: Late, it is spreading up.
Speaker 14: I think the picks and shovels theme is still very
Speaker 14: much in vogue right now. You're seeing it with semiconductor companies.
Speaker 14: You're seeing it with data centers and digital infrastructure where
Speaker 14: there's just there's a shortage, there needs to be more
Speaker 14: data centers.
Speaker 4: Fact that we're just not seeing that in the share prices.
Speaker 5: You've seen semiconductors absolutely obliterated this year but.
Speaker 14: We're seeing in the vestment dollars where you have some
Speaker 14: of the mag seven companies spending hundreds of billions of
Speaker 14: dollars to build out this space. And so yes, markets
Speaker 14: are volatile in the short term and the long term,
Speaker 14: we see a lot of opportunity in aistill Digital infrastructure
Speaker 14: is really the first area. I think the next area
Speaker 14: of attention from the market is going to be on
Speaker 14: the data companies. Who owns the unique data that's going
Speaker 14: to have to feed into these large language models. Right now,
Speaker 14: you could actually run out of data by next year
Speaker 14: in terms of what is training these models. They're ingesting
Speaker 14: so much data to get so much more powerful. That unique,
Speaker 14: high quality data is going to be where a lot
Speaker 14: of value lies. And then finally beyond that, I think
Speaker 14: we're going to see really transformative industries really build around
Speaker 14: artificial intelligence. But you're seeing the users the adopters. That's
Speaker 14: where kind of in the back part of this decade,
Speaker 14: I think we're going to see a lot of value
Speaker 14: unlocked as well.
Speaker 4: I'm interested as to where the fun flows are coming from.
Speaker 5: Geographically, can you break it down, or even when it
Speaker 5: comes to age groups, how are you seeing people allocate
Speaker 5: towards the AI trade.
Speaker 14: We don't get that much level of detail in the
Speaker 14: ETF space, but I can say it's being broadly felt
Speaker 14: right now. So you're absolutely seeing a combination of end
Speaker 14: investors as well as financial advisors who have been looking
Speaker 14: at the AI trade for a while and maybe even
Speaker 14: telling their clients I'm not ready. The evaluations look a
Speaker 14: little bit stretched. This thing's been on a run. Now
Speaker 14: that it's pulled back this year in a pretty significant way,
Speaker 14: they see it as the entry point for long term investing.
Speaker 14: So we're seeing that pretty broadly across our investor base.
Speaker 6: All right, black Rocks J Jacobs joining us there in
Speaker 6: New York, Jay, thanks so much for joining us well.
Speaker 6: Elon Musk's XAI and chip maker in Nvidia are joining
Speaker 6: forces with Microsoft and black Rock to build thirty billion
Speaker 6: dollars worth of AI infrastructure, mostly.
Speaker 3: In the US.
Speaker 6: The group also includes United Arab Emirates backed MGX and
Speaker 6: plans to focus on data centers and energy infrastructure. Both
Speaker 6: Microsoft and Blackrock have ties to XII rival open Ai,
Speaker 6: which is part of a one hundred billion dollar AI
Speaker 6: infrastructure plan Stargate. Caroline, I feel like I need some
Speaker 6: sort of chart here to keep track of the strange bedfellows.
Speaker 6: But I guess the opportunity brings somewhat frenemies together.
Speaker 5: I mean, the whole well of the AI space seems
Speaker 5: to be one built on frenemies, as is more broadly intecting.
Speaker 5: But isn't it interesting that when we saw this Stargate
Speaker 5: announcement in front of the White House, Microsoft wasn't there.
Speaker 5: It seemed to be Open AI opening itself up to
Speaker 5: deals with Oracle, but Microsoft them in there all along
Speaker 5: with black Rock, really trying to integrate and ensure that
Speaker 5: allocated dollars is going into data centers. And look, when
Speaker 5: you see the news as we reported at the top
Speaker 5: of the show, that four hundred thousand GPUs can be
Speaker 5: honed in the Texas building that's currently happening by Stargate,
Speaker 5: it does feel like the demand is still there for
Speaker 5: all things that Jensen builds.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the demand is certainly remarkable. And look, walt to
Speaker 6: wait and see what we hear from Nvidia in the
Speaker 6: coming week as GtC wraps up. But no question that
Speaker 6: investment these companies are making, it's still happening.
Speaker 5: Coming up though, we're going to talk about what it
Speaker 5: takes a stand up from the crowded market for building
Speaker 5: AI developer tools. Axcels Christin Nesmon is going to be
Speaker 5: joining us and that it's all about Graphite for them.
Speaker 4: This is blue Meg Technology.
Speaker 6: Google has agreed to pay thirty two billion dollars to
Speaker 6: buy cloud security startup Wiz. It's the most search giant
Speaker 6: has ever paid in an acquisition and it's a big win.
Speaker 3: For the backers of Wiz.
Speaker 6: Joining us now is Bloomberg's Katie Roof Katie. We're learning
Speaker 6: more about exactly how this deal came together. Even though
Speaker 6: it was over a long period of time, it was
Speaker 6: also just recently, really in.
Speaker 3: The last week and a half or two weeks. What
Speaker 3: do we know.
Speaker 7: Exactly?
Speaker 15: So, you know, the Google first express interests after hearing
Speaker 15: the buzz about Wiz at RSA security conference last May,
Speaker 15: and then you know, talks picked up last summer and
Speaker 15: Wiz was not interested at all in selling at the time,
Speaker 15: even though twenty three billion, you know, which was so
Speaker 15: much money, especially for a company that it's time.
Speaker 4: Is just four years old.
Speaker 15: But what changed is the regulatory environment. There were people
Speaker 15: involved with Wiz who were very concerned about you know,
Speaker 15: another Adobe Figma type situation that you know, went on
Speaker 15: with regulators and slowed the company down. And so you know,
Speaker 15: there's a perception at least that this deal would be
Speaker 15: more likely to get approved under the current administration. Of course,
Speaker 15: that remains to be seen. And so yeah, really what
Speaker 15: we understand is in the last week or so, Google's
Speaker 15: persistence finally paid off.
Speaker 4: It's interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 5: We had the FDC chair Andrew Ferguson on the earlier
Speaker 5: in the week saying, look, we're going to get out
Speaker 5: of the way if we decide that we can't win
Speaker 5: in court or can't bring an antitrust case. But ultimately
Speaker 5: the still plowing ahead on other alphabet focused investigations.
Speaker 4: When it comes to the speed of this particular set
Speaker 4: of negotiations, boy it was fast.
Speaker 5: It came together a week and a half, you say
Speaker 5: here in New York.
Speaker 15: Yeah, so we're hearing it's about that, you know, earlier
Speaker 15: this month. Is our understanding is when talks picked up again.
Speaker 15: And you know, if you even look at what wiz
Speaker 15: was doing even as of January, they hired an IPO
Speaker 15: ready CFO. They fully thought that they were going to
Speaker 15: IPO at some point and they were.
Speaker 8: Taking steps for that.
Speaker 15: But yes, recently wiz was in the middle of a
Speaker 15: funding round and changed course and decided they had, you know,
Speaker 15: ten billion dollars more reasons to sell. There's the thirty
Speaker 15: two billion that was announced, and there's also an additional
Speaker 15: billion bonus, an employee retention bonus that they may receive.
Speaker 6: Some real cash, not just for the founders, but also
Speaker 6: for the venture capitalists who backed the company. Bloomberg's Katie
Speaker 6: Roof joining us on that. Now it's time for our
Speaker 6: VC spotlight. The market for AI developer tools is quickly
Speaker 6: becoming crowded as more companies turned to AI generated code
Speaker 6: for deeper look at this space. We're joined by Excel
Speaker 6: partner Christine Esherman. Christine, good to have you on set
Speaker 6: with us here in San Francisco. Excel just invested in
Speaker 6: this fifty two million dollars Series B in a Graphite.
Speaker 3: What is the opportunity that you see here?
Speaker 16: Yes, well, thank you for having me, Tim. Yesterday we
Speaker 16: announced our fifty two million dollars Series B in Graphite
Speaker 16: dot dev. Graphite is an AI powered code review platform
Speaker 16: and like you mentioned, I don't think it's any surprise
Speaker 16: that the amount of code that's being generated has just
Speaker 16: absolutely exploded in recent months, largely thanks to the success
Speaker 16: of companies like Cursor and Windsurf and Copilot, And as
Speaker 16: a result of all the activity and codegen there's just
Speaker 16: been an increased emphasis on reviewing that code, testing it,
Speaker 16: and deploying it.
Speaker 8: And that's where Graphite fits.
Speaker 16: In graphit's really the collaboration layer where human developers and
Speaker 16: AI agents can collaborate on code changes.
Speaker 6: So you mentioned it's a collaboration layer. But I think
Speaker 6: when people hear about products such as this, they think
Speaker 6: about their.
Speaker 3: Own jobs being at risk.
Speaker 6: How do you see this disrupting the engineer and the
Speaker 6: software developer market.
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's a really good question, and I think there's
Speaker 16: a lot of conversation and a lot of people that
Speaker 16: are saying, will the software developer cease to exist?
Speaker 8: And what's the future of that career path?
Speaker 16: Anecdotally, just across then Excel portfolio and across conversations that
Speaker 16: I'm having with technology leaders in the enterprise, everybody is
Speaker 16: trying to hire more and more software developers, and it's
Speaker 16: actually a war for talent. That's largely due to the
Speaker 16: fact that software developers can just be much more productive
Speaker 16: with tools like Graphite. We're seeing incredible productivity gains and
Speaker 16: companies are going multi product faster, and I actually think
Speaker 16: that this is going to be an accelerant to the
Speaker 16: software development career.
Speaker 5: We talked about this being a crowded space when it's
Speaker 5: actually coming to using AI to build code.
Speaker 4: This is about assessing that code.
Speaker 5: But there are other thought ups busily building in that direction.
Speaker 5: I think if a person who helped build GitHub Copilot
Speaker 5: is but the building pool side, how do you decide
Speaker 5: that Graphite is a win a hit?
Speaker 4: In what capacity will it win?
Speaker 16: Yeah? Well, there's certainly a number of companies that are
Speaker 16: vying to be the next multi billion dollar company in
Speaker 16: the developer tool landscape. I personally think Graphite is you
Speaker 16: in a number of ways. First and foremost, the team
Speaker 16: is just absolutely exceptional. It's it's founded by three co founders, Merrill,
Speaker 16: Thomas and Greg They all met while studying computer science
Speaker 16: at Harvard, and they've just built an exceptional team in
Speaker 16: culture in New York City. Secondly, this this team has
Speaker 16: just been able to.
Speaker 8: Move very fast and ship new features.
Speaker 16: Yesterday they launched their standalone AI code review product called diamond,
Speaker 16: and I think it's just really important to stay ahead
Speaker 16: of the curve, constantly be iterated, iterating on.
Speaker 8: Product, and Graphite is able to do that.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna be a bit selfish here because this company
Speaker 5: is based in New York, where I happened to sit,
Speaker 5: and I just think of AI lab Cognition as well,
Speaker 5: raising a ton of money, huge valuation, and that busy
Speaker 5: actually trying to build an AI software engineer.
Speaker 4: What's New York got thus? Is the West Coast?
Speaker 8: Definitely? It's a It's a great question.
Speaker 16: And at Excel we're global both in terms of where
Speaker 16: our offices are and where we invest in companies. We've
Speaker 16: long believed that great founders are everywhere across the globe,
Speaker 16: and it's important for us to be able to find
Speaker 16: those founders no matter where they're building their companies. Graph
Speaker 16: it's unique and that they're in person five days a
Speaker 16: week and really care about building a strong culture, and
Speaker 16: I think that's given them an edge in this very
Speaker 16: competitive time.
Speaker 6: Your own portfolio companies include Graphite, Linear, Merge, Remote, and Headway.
Speaker 6: What's exciting to you now as you look across the
Speaker 6: startup landscape.
Speaker 16: Yeah, Well, I'm having a ton of fun. I think
Speaker 16: that there's no time like this when companies are just
Speaker 16: growing so quickly and buyers just have so much willingness
Speaker 16: to spend on technology. So it's been amazing just to
Speaker 16: see the interest in enterprise technology.
Speaker 4: As a whole.
Speaker 16: But what I look for when making new investments in
Speaker 16: consumer and enterprise and AI and and infrastructure is really
Speaker 16: just phenomenal founders. This is a people business, and I'm
Speaker 16: just so fortunate to be able to work with exceptional
Speaker 16: founders across all those different companies.
Speaker 6: But is there a type of technology right now that
Speaker 6: you see on the horizon that's really exciting and you
Speaker 6: want to get behind. We under staying that the people
Speaker 6: make the companies, but the tech has to exist too.
Speaker 16: For sure, and we've are seeing an incredible platform shift
Speaker 16: right now. I mean, software development is entering a new paradigm,
Speaker 16: and I think it's really important to just be paying
Speaker 16: attention to all the different technology innovation. If history is
Speaker 16: going to repeat itself, I think we're going to see
Speaker 16: new winners across productivity, collaboration, and insecurity, and we're paying
Speaker 16: close attention to all three of those areas.
Speaker 4: Christina, I'm going to go.
Speaker 5: Back to something you said that graph it's unique because
Speaker 5: it's in the office five days a week.
Speaker 4: Is that something you care about.
Speaker 5: In person collaboration when ultimately engineers can be based anywhere
Speaker 5: and what together?
Speaker 8: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 16: So we work with companies that are in person and
Speaker 16: also companies that are remote. And I think it really
Speaker 16: depends on the subcategory that you're building in right now.
Speaker 16: In developer tools specifically, I think it's really important for
Speaker 16: teams to be able to move quickly and be in
Speaker 16: person together. This market is moving so so so fast,
Speaker 16: and like you mentioned, it's very competitive and we're waking
Speaker 16: up every day to the companies that are raising hundreds
Speaker 16: of millions of dollars, and in order to be able
Speaker 16: to keep up, I think it is really important to
Speaker 16: be in person together and to be able to pay
Speaker 16: attention to everything that's going on in the competitive landscape.
Speaker 5: Music to many of some of those in finance here
Speaker 5: in New York, at least Christin Essamond Partner and Axel,
Speaker 5: we thank you so much for joining us. Meanwhile, we
Speaker 5: want to update you on a developing story outside of
Speaker 5: the world of technology. President Trump says he just completed
Speaker 5: a one hour phone call with Ukraine's leader.
Speaker 4: Trump says the call with Zelinsky was very good.
Speaker 5: I'll remember that the two presidents had a dramatic disagreement
Speaker 5: to the White House recently. It resulted in Course Selinsky
Speaker 5: being told to leave an interheriation in the relationship. Will
Speaker 5: continue to monitor and bring you any more information from
Speaker 5: that call. Adobe unveiling a new suite of product innovations
Speaker 5: integrating AI to really help drive the customer experience. Please
Speaker 5: to welcome Adobe Digital Media Business President David Wardwani to
Speaker 5: the show and just tell us what is going to
Speaker 5: be happening to a customer right now, How much are
Speaker 5: they going to be interacting with agents?
Speaker 4: What does it change in terms of their experience?
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's been amazing having the world's biggest brands and
Speaker 17: so many companies together talking about the evolution of how
Speaker 17: creativity and how agentic an AI is going to change
Speaker 17: what we call the content supply chain. And the question
Speaker 17: here is around how do you create more content in
Speaker 17: a personalized way to reach audiences with messages and content
Speaker 17: that really resonates with them. So the entire show that
Speaker 17: we are at an Adobe summit today has been really
Speaker 17: around enabling enterprises to create more content at scale through
Speaker 17: AI and agentic experiences that can create better engagement with
Speaker 17: their customers.
Speaker 4: Some of that is about interroperability as well.
Speaker 5: You recently added Google's model example for users, where else
Speaker 5: are you integrating?
Speaker 4: Who else are you adding?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 17: So, first of all, just so everyone understands, we have
Speaker 17: the world's broadest set of AI models focused on creativity,
Speaker 17: and we developed those models in a way that is
Speaker 17: more controllable and toolable than anyone else in the world.
Speaker 17: We also recognize that customers want to have a broad
Speaker 17: set of models that have their own individual personalities, so
Speaker 17: we announced partnerships with Google to bring the Google models
Speaker 17: for both image and video in We also are working
Speaker 17: with Flux. We're also working with a host of other
Speaker 17: third party models, including Runway for video and these kinds
Speaker 17: of things. So we're very excited about making sure that
Speaker 17: Adobe becomes the one stop shop people can come to
Speaker 17: for the most controllable AI models and the trusted partner
Speaker 17: in terms of getting access to everything agentic and everything
Speaker 17: AI based.
Speaker 6: David, how does this affect pricing here? How can you
Speaker 6: move the lever when it comes to pricing? Can you
Speaker 6: keep pushing for more pricing increases because of what you're adding.
Speaker 17: If you look at where we are, creativity is the
Speaker 17: foundation of everything that is happening and change that's happening
Speaker 17: in the world today when it comes to communication, whether
Speaker 17: you're a business professional or a consumer, whether you're a
Speaker 17: creative professional and needing to produce more content, whether you're
Speaker 17: an enterprise trying to create a lot more scaled content
Speaker 17: for personalized experiences, that foundation of creativity is what we
Speaker 17: bring to the market. We are bringing a lot more
Speaker 17: offerings around freemium offers and webin mobile to reach billions
Speaker 17: of users at with business professionals and consumers. We're bringing
Speaker 17: a lot more value to existing creative professionals where we
Speaker 17: can bring in more tiers, and we're bringing a lot
Speaker 17: more solution and value to enterprises. So across this entire ecosystem,
Speaker 17: there's room to bring in more users, provide more value,
Speaker 17: and drive more increased monetization.
Speaker 6: Very briefly, can you just give us a timeline here
Speaker 6: about achieving AI sales of one billion dollars. You've recently
Speaker 6: disclosed a run rate of one hundred and twenty five
Speaker 6: million dollars. You'll be able to that by November. How
Speaker 6: long until AI sales reach a billion?
Speaker 17: Well, first of all, we are already influencing billions of
Speaker 17: dollars of Adobe business because AI is pervasive in everything
Speaker 17: we do. But to your point, we also announced that
Speaker 17: we have standalone value new products that have hit one
Speaker 17: hundred and twenty five million today. We expect that to
Speaker 17: double in the next nine months, and everything we see
Speaker 17: shows a lot more acceleration in that space and those products,
Speaker 17: so we're very bullish about that continue to grow and
Speaker 17: actually accelerate in the years ahead.
Speaker 5: David Willmanni great to catch up with you half the
Speaker 5: heels of course of Adobe Summit. You're the Adobe Digital
Speaker 5: Media Business President. Now that does it for this edition
Speaker 5: bloembg Technology, you do.
Speaker 4: Not want to forget to check out on podcasts.
Speaker 5: You can find it on the terminals well as online.
Speaker 4: On Apple, Spotify and iHeart.
Speaker 5: Catch up on all the datus out of Adobe Summit,
Speaker 5: out of GtC from video, and of course tune into
Speaker 5: the FED special a little bit later as well.
Speaker 4: This is bloombag Technology