1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. It's a very organic process. You know, 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: a lot of people think songwriting is across. I wish 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: you have an idea and then you sit down and 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: you write a song or not. You know, that's not 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: really the way most songwriters that I know, I'm not 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: just talking about me. Now. What happens is you sit 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: down and you start to write, and then it becomes 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: about sundating. 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, the podcast where 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: your host Buzz Night talks with musicians about their influences, 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: their humble beginnings, and their latest projects. On this episode, 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: Buzz ventures to Amherst, Massachusetts to meet up with musician 13 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: Chris Smither. Chris is an American folk blues guitarist and 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: songwriter whose iconic career has captured the hearts of audiences everywhere. 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: Chris has just released a new album, All About the Bones, 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: and he reflects on his incredible career, his time with 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: Bonnie Raid, and his legacy in the music business. Next, Uh, 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 2: Taking a Walk with Buzz Night. 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 3: Well, we're UH on North Pleasant Street in Amherst, and 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 3: it's so great to meet up with Chris Smither here 21 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 3: to talk about All about the Bones, the new release 22 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: tell us about this Grim Reaper you were frequently talking 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 3: about Chris. 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: Mister bones himself. 25 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: Uh. 26 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Grim Reaper. It's just something that you think 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: about a little bit more when you're closer to the 28 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: end than you are even to the middle, uh of things. 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's a it's funny the song came about 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: because I don't know if because it's even a good 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: thing to say, but it came about with my producer, 32 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: David goodwhich he came into my my music room and 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: I was having terrible time writing songs, and he said, 34 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: I gotta come up and visit and we'll work us out. 35 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: He has a a a very good effect on me, 36 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: so he the first day that we were working together, 37 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: he came in the room and he just picked up 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: one of my guitars and he started doing this whole 39 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: baseline a little with double ball ball ball uh, And 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: I started. I had another guitar and I was riffing 41 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: off of that, playing back and forth, and did that 42 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: for two few, two three minutes. Then he said sing something, 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: and I opened my mouth and said, it's all about 44 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: the ball. He was puting the ball back and then 45 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: it sort of went from there. It's just Uh, it's 46 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really make a lot of sense 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: to attach too much deep meaning to it. It's just 48 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: the notion that the most solid thing about is is 49 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: the framework. That's the most solid thing about anything. It's 50 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: the framework, and the rest of it is sort of 51 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: soft decoration with the software and and even the framework 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: done in the last forever. And it's a it's a 53 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: good idea to remember that. 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 4: But was that process a similar process that you've previously 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 4: gone through in terms of creating and breaking through maybe 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 4: with a little bit of a block? 57 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, I you know, I'm I. Well, 58 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: you never wanna say never, but I I almost never 59 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: have any idea what songs are gonna be about until 60 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: they're practically halfway finished, you know. I. I I don't 61 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: sit down with the notion that I'm gonna write a 62 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: song about almost this. I mean, that would be the 63 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: furtherest sting in my mind. I just sit down and 64 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: I start writing. I start knocking out phrases that move 65 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: in time to some guitar riff that I've got working, 66 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: and I s and I watch what happens, you know, 67 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: and eventually those things start to suggesting to me and 68 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: of course, the things that they suggest to me are 69 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: things that that are that will be related to what 70 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about reading recently, stuff like that, and 71 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: they at all times, and you know, it just goes 72 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: from there. It's it's a very organic process. You know, 73 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people think songwriting is is a process. 74 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: I wish you have an idea and then you sit 75 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: down and you write a song about it. You know 76 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 1: that that's not really the way most songwriters that I know, 77 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: even that I'm not just talking about me now, I 78 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: mean what happens is you sit down and you start 79 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: to write, and then it becomes about something. 80 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 5: But you write all the time, No, don't. 81 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: I do not. If I did, I'd have a lot 82 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: more songs than I do now. I write I specifically 83 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: for projects I had. I decide, all right, it's been 84 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: long enough, I gotta get some new material I need 85 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: to record. I'm gonna put some more life into this organization. 86 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: And so I consciously sit down and write a whole 87 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: double fitful of songs. You know. 88 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 4: And what's it like though, that moment that is like electricity, 89 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 4: when suddenly it connects and it starts moving into the formation. 90 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 5: What's that feeling like. 91 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: Relief because you're never quite sure it's gonna happen. You know. 92 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: I you sit, I said, and have these scribblings that 93 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: I think they sort of they sort of tie it together. 94 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: They make a sort of sense. But it doesn't really 95 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: do to play too much close attention to what's going on, 96 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: because the process itself is kind of fragile, and if 97 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: you if you analyze it too closely, it just goes away. 98 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: You know, when you're on a roll you just wanted 99 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: to keep coming, and then you look at it and 100 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: you say, what on earth is going on here? And 101 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: there there does come a moment then you you were 102 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: sort of describing it where you it. To me, it 103 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: feels like somebody just opened the book and all of 104 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: a sudden I can read it. I suddenly say, I 105 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: see what it's about, and I I think, oh, okay, 106 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: that's what he's getting at. He being that part of 107 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: my brain that I'm not really on speaking terms with, 108 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: you know. The it's so it's subconsciously working all these 109 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: things out. And then you know, and I've said this before, 110 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: then from the other side of your brain can take 111 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: over and start to organize it in a a little 112 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: more coherent way. 113 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, moved that a little. Sorry, Kay, perfect, Okay, thanks. 114 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 115 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 4: Do you evaluate your songs a year or two after 116 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 4: you've put 'em out and think differently about 'em? 117 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? Uh, I mean that's just hard to avoid. You change, 118 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: you you change, your perception of the song is gonna change. 119 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: But that's really just an interpretation. I learned a long 120 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: time ago never to to dismiss anybody's interpretations of my songs. 121 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: Once they're out there. They mean whatever anybody wants them 122 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: to mean. You know, as long as you can make 123 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: a good case for it, I'll buy it. You know. 124 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: I've had people come up to me and say, I 125 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: know exactly what that song's about. And I tell 'em, 126 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: I ask 'em, I say what do you think it's about? 127 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: And they'll tell me and it will be something that 128 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: is the furthest thing from my mind. And what I 129 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: say to them is, you're absolutely right, because they are. 130 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: You know, well, that person is no different from uh, 131 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: accepting 'em in degree from the person that you have 132 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: changed into, from the person who wrote the song. So 133 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: you come at it from a different we know, with 134 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: any luck, Oh you've written you've done a nice enough 135 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: piece of work on the language that it could hold 136 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: up to various interpretations. Well, you can actually make a 137 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: case for various interpretations, but sure they change. You know. 138 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: I do look at songs sometimes and say, that's a 139 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: young man's You know, I was a young man when 140 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: I wrote that. But you know it still holds water, 141 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: and I I usually find a way that I can 142 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: make it express something that it's still valid for me 143 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: as a person. 144 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 5: Oh do you think your music changed. 145 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 4: When you got yourself on the clean and narrow straight path. 146 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, it got a lot better, got a lot better. 147 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: I just I'm not so sure it changed. I just 148 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: got better at it, you know, I it w it 149 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: was a little easier to get my thoughts together, you know, 150 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: taking mind altering substances, whether they be you know, drugs 151 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: or alcohol anything. Well alcohol is a drug, but you know, 152 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: they can provide an illusion of insight that doesn't often 153 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: hold up in the long run. You know. It's Uh, 154 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: it used to be a subject that interested in me greatly, 155 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: and now it just kind of bores me, to tell 156 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: you the truth that you know, It's like it the 157 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: question is very much like somebody saying, well, do you 158 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: like writing songs better when you're sick or when you're well. Well, 159 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, you can write songs both ways, but it's 160 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: a lot easier if you feel healthy. 161 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 4: That's how did someone who was gonna be an anthropologist 162 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 4: turned into a musician? 163 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: Nah, pretty easily, you know. Yeah, it's both both are uh, 164 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: dealing with people, you know, trying to fi you what 165 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: makes people take? What made people take? In a historical sense, 166 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: what cultural constants there are? I mean, you know, when 167 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: I was studying anthropology, one of the first things she 168 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: learned is if the anthropologist is in constant search for 169 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: cultural constants, things that show up in every culture, you know, 170 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: so that you can compare and say, well, this culture 171 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: handled that question this way, and this will handled it 172 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: that way. But there are some things that show up 173 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: no matter what, everybody kind of handles them the same way. Yeah. 174 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 4: The more I think about it, how supremely prepared does 175 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 4: that being an anthropologist or wanting to make you for 176 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 4: your craft as a musician, right. 177 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: Well, for my craft is as a lyricist, you know, 178 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: and it didn't prepare me very well for the musical 179 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: aspects of it, you know, that was you know, more 180 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: or less uh on the fly. I didn't. I I 181 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: never really spent a lot of time. I didn't. I 182 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: never studied music. I'm all almost completely self taught. And 183 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: by year I I can I can figure out written notation, 184 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: but I'm not very good at it, not enough to 185 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: really help me just and uh and that's uh, that's 186 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: a been a little bit of a regret there, you know. 187 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: But in terms of the con thing, the lyric content 188 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: of the song, the emotional thrust of the songs, yeah, 189 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: anthropologies probably a pretty good foundation. 190 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 4: What was your first, uh concert experience that you've uh 191 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 4: ever experienced? I, you know, I'm I'm not sure. 192 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: That's a I've been asked this before and I had 193 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: I'm a standard answer, but I'm not sure it's actually accurate, 194 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: you know. I I you know what I you know, 195 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: what I just really realized was when I was ten 196 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: years old, I think I was ten. On my birthday, 197 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: my parents s took me to the opera in New Orleans. 198 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: I'd never seen an opera and they had some spare 199 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: tickets and they said, you wanna go to the opera? 200 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: I said sure, I mean cause they used to go 201 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: to the opera every Thursday night during the opera season, 202 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: and they would go and and it was always kind 203 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: of mysterious to me. The baby said, it was sure was, 204 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: you know. They but they'd get dressed up and they 205 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: would go. I mean those days she had to dress 206 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: to go to the opera, you know, and uh in 207 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: the evening clothes, you know, and they would go. And 208 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: so it was a mystery to me. So, uh, we 209 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: took me and I have a twin sister, and it 210 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: was both our birthday, and they took us to the 211 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: opera and it was Tuscar was the art, and I 212 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: was fascinated. I remember being fascinated. I couldn't make much 213 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: of the music, and of course it's in a foreign language, 214 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: and so it didn't make a lot of sense to me. 215 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: But I I was just I kind of knocked out 216 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: by that, the size of the crowd. And then my father, 217 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: in a whisper, would point out there was a critic 218 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: from the New Orleans paper at Times fifty eight saying, 219 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: see what he's doing, And I said, no, what is 220 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: the Black cities counting the house? 221 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 4: You know. 222 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: So it was an early introduction to that there were 223 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: other aspects to a concert, you know, than just the music. Itself. 224 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: There was a there was a business associated with it. 225 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: But you know, then when I was twelve years old, 226 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: I was in Nashville my uncle. I had an uncle 227 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 1: who taught at Vanderbilt and I for some reason, and 228 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: I was visiting him w and my sister was there 229 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: as well, and he took us to the Grand Over 230 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: Opera in the Ryman, in the old Ryman Auditorium before 231 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: he'd got refurbished. Oh man, that place was a fire track. No, 232 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: that was an experience. I mean, that was amazing. There 233 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: were some strange people there. As far as I was 234 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: getting sented, they were very strange people. Well, I mean 235 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: people straight out of the hills, you know, and they 236 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: looked up. I'd never seen anybody that looked like that 237 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: outside of a comic strip. And yet they were whooping 238 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: and hollering and having the best time, and the music. 239 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: It was just I saw they ever brs, I said, 240 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: they ever bothers. They were just kids. I they were 241 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: barely three four years older than me, wow, you know, 242 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: and now maybe more than that, I guess, maybe five 243 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: or six years older than me. But there they were, 244 00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, seventeen eighteen years old belting out. I can't 245 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: remember what the me they had, what was the first 246 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: big hit any rate, but they were saying it, you know, 247 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: bye bye love. Yeah, yeah, you know. And uh, I've 248 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: never forgotten that. 249 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 5: Yeah. 250 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: But I think the first concert I ever saw that 251 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: made me think that's really cool was a Julian Bream 252 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: concert on the tul Ain campus. Of course, he was 253 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: a classical guitar player, but uh, he was the most 254 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: engaging person. You know, he'd he was sitting on stage 255 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: playing and then he would introduce a new piece in 256 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: his his style. His whole introduction to the piece was 257 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: folks see it really was. But it was just incredibly engaging. 258 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: You know, you just pay you paid attention to him. 259 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: It was like some friend of yours was sitting in 260 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: the living room and he just me, it's so accessible somehow. 261 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: I I I think everybody I was in love with 262 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: the guy, and I think everybody in the room was. 263 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: They just he was just a wonderful performer. And I 264 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: thought that was the first time I remember thinking, ool, 265 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: I would like to do that. That's something that appeals 266 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: to me, not so much the music that he was playing, 267 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: but the effect that he was having on people. Yeah, 268 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: and and the thing that he was generating because it 269 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: wasn't really aimed at himself at all. It was aimed 270 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: at a shared experience. That was the objective, you know, 271 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: and he made it just so enticly. Yeah, I was. 272 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 4: Do you remember what your first experience seeing somebody fingerpicking was? 273 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: Seeing somebody's fingerpick? I think I was about seventeen or 274 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: eighteen years old. I knew what it was because I 275 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: don't already got it hooked on Lighting Hopkins and missis Zippa, 276 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: John Hurt. But I had no idea how they did 277 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: what they did. I had no idea. And there was 278 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: a guy at two Lane. There was a bunch of 279 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, like people into folk music and you know, 280 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: focus at the University of York and all wearing blue 281 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: chambray shirts and torn up jeans and looking as ethnic 282 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: as possible, struggling along to Bob Dylan's and his name 283 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: was Tony Echolos, and he was he was finger picking. 284 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: I forget what the song was, but he was finger picking. 285 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: And I said, how do you do that? Then, you know, 286 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: he gave me a rudimentary explanation of it. 287 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 4: That was. 288 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: That was how that started. 289 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 290 00:17:54,560 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 291 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 4: Tell me about that trip in nineteen sixty four that 292 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 4: you took to uh, New York City and ultimately really 293 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 4: changed you greatly in terms of the impact that you 294 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 4: observed on that trip. 295 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: Oh that you're Oh you mean like when I was 296 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: on my way to Paris, Yes, sir, yeah, oh yeah. 297 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: I was on my way to Paris from my junior 298 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: or college, and I'd gotten to New York a couple 299 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: of days earlier because a friend of mine at school said, well, 300 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, have you have you ever spending time in 301 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: New York? And I said, you know? And he says, 302 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: well if you, cause we were in those days she 303 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: took a steamship to Yoda unless she was really rich, 304 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: especially if you were going for a year, which I was, 305 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: so you had a lot of stuff. So I got 306 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: there a couple of days before the ship was to sail, 307 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: and uh, my friend picked me up wherever. I can't 308 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: even remember how I got there. I think I flew 309 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: to New York, but I could have been a train. 310 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I don't know why I can't remember that, 311 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: but at any rate, and he he took me up 312 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: to his He drove me up to his house. He 313 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: lived in the Yorkers and he, uh, he said, what 314 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: do you wanna do? I said, well, there's there's gone 315 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: to be some some cool music. And he this guy 316 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: was not really into this kind of music at all, 317 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: but he knew that I was. So he had bought 318 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: a copy of the Village's Voice and he was reading 319 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: like who was playing down in the village and all 320 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: these places? And he came across an ad for uh, 321 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 1: the gaslight cafe. I said, oh, I've heard of that, 322 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: and he says, there's somebody playing there, and who's playing tonight. 323 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: He looked to him and says, Mississippi John Hurt You 324 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: ever heard of MISSI? And I said, oh, my god, 325 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: we gotta go, we gotta go. I to me, I 326 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: that was like a bolt from the lou. I I 327 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: couldn't believe in my good fortune. You remember of all 328 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: the days that I was picked to the area or 329 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: there would be John hurrit And of course by this 330 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: time I was I was better at fai. I'd I'd 331 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: become a pretty good pattern picker away and I'd sort 332 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: of elimited uh, I would I had forsworn my free 333 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: cord and thumb and bash strumming and wouldcome almost exclusively 334 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: a finger picker. And uh, so I went down and 335 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: we went down to the gas light. And see, I've 336 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: told this story so many times. Yeah, it's it's funny. 337 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: It keeps changing because I keep meeting people that were 338 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: involved and I didn't know were there at the time, 339 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: and they go, oh my god, I remember that night. 340 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: You know, it's a it's funny. So I went to, uh, 341 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: went to the gas light, and I'm sitting there waiting 342 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: for John Hurt to come out of my ye. I mean, 343 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,239 Speaker 1: he was enormous to me. It's hard to explain, uh 344 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: how important he seemed to me. Then then this kid 345 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: comes out and image the shirt and plays starts playing 346 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: this big gild guitar and I and I knew it 347 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: wasn't John Hurt, for he was the wrong color. For 348 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: one thing, you know, was they were okay songs, you know, 349 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: I I I it wasn't what I was expecting, and 350 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: so I was, you know, not paying too close attention. 351 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: But I thought out how to be polite. I had 352 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: no idea who he was, so I asked us really 353 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: hip looking guy at the table and used to me, 354 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: I said, who's that playing? And he looked at me, like, 355 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: you idiot, how put don't you know? I said, no, 356 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: I don't know who it is. It's says it's Tom Paxton. 357 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: I go, you know Tom Paxton. What do I know 358 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: from Tom Paxton? So but then he finished him well right, well, 359 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: while he was playing, I saw John Hurt come out 360 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: from backstage and he came out into the audience and 361 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: he sat at my table right behind and right go me. 362 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: I was just after me. I was about to wet 363 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: my pasts, you know. I turned around to to say 364 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: something to him and me shushed and he pointed it 365 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: up at the stage. You know, like fifty years later, 366 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: I tell this story that Tom pat said, and I said, so, 367 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: I just wanted you to know that when I was 368 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: twenty years old, I was shushed in your favor by 369 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: none other than MISSISSIVII John Hurt, and he said, damn straight. 370 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: I hope he took it to heart. So then finally 371 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: John Hurt gets on stage and I'm in Hamlet. He 372 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: plays three songs. I'm still in him, I'm still going. 373 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: And then this other guy, other young man comes up 374 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: and starts sitting in with him on harmonica. And I 375 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: was so annoyed, because I mean, I was not a 376 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: soatisticated listener, and I it was hard for me to set. 377 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to hear the guitar around you. It was 378 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: hard for me to keep the sounds separate. And but 379 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: again I thought I'd be polite, so I asked the 380 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: hipster next to me again who that was, and he 381 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: gave me the same look, and he says, it's John Sebastian. 382 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: What do I know from John Sebastian, right, I mean, 383 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: I learned a lot very few years later. But and 384 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: so it was just not even six months ago, No, 385 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: maybe it was. Maybe it was six months ago. I 386 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: saw John Sebastian. I was doing this show with Happy 387 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: Trom and Cyndy cash Dollar and a bunch of other 388 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: people in the woodstock and us to show them that 389 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: Happy d Troum does every year. And uh, and I 390 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: told him that story. We were backstage, and I said, John, 391 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: I never told you by the time I saw you. 392 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: And I told him that whole story, and he grabs 393 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: me by the collar and he turns to everyone. He says, 394 00:23:53,840 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: I got a witness. He says apparently been general people 395 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: for years that he prayed the Mississippi John Hurt. Nobody 396 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: would believe it. 397 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 4: Uh, was he as Mississippi John Hurt? Was he as 398 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 4: great as imagine? 399 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, you know, you have to understand I was 400 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: not in a critical state of mind. I wanted him 401 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: to be just exactly what I wanted him to be, 402 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: and he was, you know, that's the way I saw it. 403 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: But he was that. He was to my eye and 404 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: to my ear, he was this a very gentle soul, 405 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: but Riley witty at the same time. I mean he 406 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: he would make dirty jokes, he wouldn't believe I mean, 407 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: it was just all But at the same time, there 408 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: was just something very gentle and kind about him. And 409 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: I think he reflected in his guitar style. And you 410 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: couldn't hear him. You know, there's nothing slashing, there's nothing 411 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: angry about his playing. Ever, even when he's telling terrible 412 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: stories about people being shot and with that and the other, 413 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's all done. And the sort of tones 414 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: that you and I are using right now. I've talked 415 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: teacher Love. 416 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 5: Tell me about your exposure that I think. 417 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 4: Mostly occurred while you were in Cambridge with the whole 418 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 4: amazing exposure you had with people like you know, Lightning 419 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 4: Hopkins and Reverend Gary Davis. 420 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 5: That was Cambridge, right, That was yeah. 421 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: I although I never saw light Hopkins and Tom I 422 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: I don't think Lighting ever played Boston while I was there, okay, 423 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, and I lived in Boston for close to 424 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: thirty years, you know, I mean, he wasn't alive all 425 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: the time, but you know, he was mostly Houston, Texas. 426 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: And then when he left only he would go to 427 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: the West coast. I did. I never saw him on 428 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: the East coast. He might have been playing in New 429 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: York and I didn't know it. But that's easy in 430 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: those days. You know, we didn't have the kind of 431 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: communication that we got, you know, so I might not 432 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: have known about it. But uh no, he was a 433 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: huge influence saw my play and when he was the 434 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: first he was the first guy that showed me what 435 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: you could do one guy with one guitar. And uh 436 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, all all the rest of 'em, I would 437 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: I I met him and and played with him, and 438 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: I mean I'd just sit around living room jamming with him. 439 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: They cause they didn't stay at hotels. They stayed with people, 440 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, people who would put 'em up, and particularly 441 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: Dick Waterman, who you know managed and and tour managed 442 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: and sh had had a great deal to do with 443 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: all those guys that were we discovered during that sort 444 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: of urban blues revival. And Dick Waterer and his girlfriend 445 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: was this little redheaded gal hanging around all the time. 446 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: That was Bonnie Rady. She was sitting there soaking up 447 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: the same sort of stuff that I was from Mississippi 448 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: friend McDowell, Son Howes, Elevengary dadys. 449 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 4: Would you ask them questions about style and creation or 450 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 4: just listen? 451 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: Nope, I would let other people ask the questions and 452 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: I would listen to the answers. I didn't. I didn't 453 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: ask him that I never had. I almost never had 454 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: one on one with whatever, And the only time I 455 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: ever did it terrified me. One time. I was Spiro 456 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: was his last name, And now I'm such an old man, 457 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: I can't remember his and his and his first name, Phil, 458 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: Phil Spiro. Phil Spiro was instrumental in rediscovering Son Howis 459 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: and uh. But he was into all the blues cats, 460 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 1: you know, all the old blues guys. So Skip James 461 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: was recording for Vanguard. This would have been about nineteen 462 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: sixty eight something like that, okay, And uh, Phil calls me. 463 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: He says, you wanna go down to New York and 464 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: watch uh Skip recording And I said, oh sure, you know, 465 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: well come on, you know, we're driving down. So he 466 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: he had a good car, and we drove down to 467 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: New York and and uh they were you know, Skip 468 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: was by himself out of the studio, you know, and 469 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: I was introduced to Kip Maidard Solomon, who was the 470 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: head of Vanguard, was there and Mader says, uh, he 471 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: comes out to me any oh oh, And Dick Wall 472 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: Dick Waterman was there too, and Dick said, he introduced 473 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: me to Mayard and he said, ye, this is a 474 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: this is a kid usually hear. So there was a 475 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: break in the actual because uh, I think Skip had 476 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: to go take a leap or something, and he and 477 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: I he went out to the bathroom. Maynard comes out 478 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: into the room where we were listening, and uh, he says, 479 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: anybody here, who's the guitar player? And uh, Dick points 480 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: at me. He says, would you go out there and 481 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: tune this guitar? When you know he's sets out of tune. Well, 482 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: I didn't wanna touch it, you know, Lek and Dick said, 483 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: do go ahead, you know, so I went out there. 484 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: Apparently they had been asking him to tune the guitar 485 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: and he'd kept insisting it wasn't she there, and uh, 486 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: so I went out. Well, you know, he he played, uh, 487 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: mostly in a D minor tuning and uh when I 488 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: fortunately I knew that, and so it didn't take me back. 489 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: So I went out and I checked the turning and 490 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: it was fun, I except at the bottom of the stream, 491 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: which was down to D. The lower east string movie 492 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: was a little flat. So I just tweaked it. Yeah, 493 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: but I not, but that was the only thing that 494 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: was wrong, sar and I could tell. And uh and 495 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: Skip comes out and catches me wit his guitar and 496 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: he says, uh, well, how you doing. Yeah, this was 497 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: kind of a high false set of the voice and 498 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: both singing and talking. I said, oh, hello, mister James. Uh, 499 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: I just they sent me out here to straighten out 500 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: I I made up a story. I said, they they 501 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: sent me out here to to uh straighten up some 502 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: mike cables and and I just couldn't resist picking up 503 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: your guitar. I hope you that's all right with you. 504 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. He said, Oh, don't worry about that. 505 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: You ain't gonna hurt nothing, you know. I I and 506 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: then I handed him back to guitar, and I sort 507 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: of ski daddle as fast as I could got out 508 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: of there, you know. And then we watched him and 509 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: he sat there and got ready to play again, and 510 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: he strummed the guitar and he stopped, and he listened 511 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: for a second, and he strummed it again, and then 512 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: he reached up and he reflatted that bottom story. 513 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 5: That's great. 514 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 4: So do you remember where you were when Bonnie Ray 515 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 4: calls you to say that she's gonna in bed? 516 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 5: Do love me like. 517 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: I would sleep on the phone range two o'clock in 518 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: the morning. Friend, we're in the studio, I'm doing your song. 519 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: I said, what's wrong? She says, I mean like a man? 520 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: And I said, uh, oh good. Uh you want me 521 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: to ReadWrite it for you like from a woman's point 522 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: of view? I already did it, and blood did she ever? Yeah? 523 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 5: I'd say. 524 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 4: You must look at her career to this day and 525 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 4: it must just give you a tremendous warm feelings. 526 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: Well, it's yeah. I mean, you know, she's probably the 527 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: I just get you know, I value our friendship enormously, 528 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: not because she's famous or because she but just because 529 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: of the kind of person she is. You know, she's 530 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: she's one of those people who's extremely extremely valuable human 531 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: being and when the planet is better off because she 532 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: walks here, and uh, she would deny that, but she'd 533 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: be wrong. You know. She she's a straight shooter. I 534 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: just uh, you know, it's one of those people that 535 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: you feel lucky that, you know. Yeah, it's just I 536 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: got quite a few for those people, but she's certainly 537 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: one of 'em. 538 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 4: Who are the other people that you have influenced her 539 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 4: in a similar way? 540 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: You mean those people? Yes, well, you know he recently 541 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: died it reason passed away just two years ago. Was 542 00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: uh Billy Conway over her. He was, you know, a 543 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: founding member of Morphine and a founding member of Treat 544 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: Her Right the band, and and he was he was 545 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: a prince. He really was, uh, angelessly curious, very kind. 546 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: Played this music in service to other people in a sense, 547 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: be as a drummer, as a percussionist. It's very hard 548 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: to play music for yourself. But it was a mission 549 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: for him and he did it so well. He was 550 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: he would. My sister asked once she when she first 551 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: met him, she said, tell me about Doe Conway and 552 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: I I said. They said, Dolle Conway is a prince, 553 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: And she said, what do you mean. I said, I mean, 554 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: he's a prince. He's the kind of person it just 555 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: makes you feel good to be around him. It's Billy. 556 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: There were a lot of people who took an interest 557 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: in me, I I and that he helped me that 558 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: I never really got close to, you know, but in 559 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: a way, they they're the ones that instilled in me 560 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: the sense of having of trying to you know, pay 561 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: it forward, that whole idea, and the people and musicians 562 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: had been doing that for decades and decades, probably hundreds 563 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: of years. Yeah, helped me out when when John Pine 564 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: was one, you know, and we weren't we were never 565 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: like tight close, but we were, you know, both we 566 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: were aware of each other and his profile quickly became 567 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: a you know, so much bigger than mine. But he 568 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: would take me out, you know, to open shows for him, 569 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: and he opened up lots of doors and cities always 570 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: the place and for me because and I've said this before, 571 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: but uh John Pine audience, it was just a Chrissmiller 572 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: audience that hadn't hurt me yet. I mean that they 573 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: were so compatible. It was the exactly the same kind 574 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,959 Speaker 1: of people. Cause people were exactly the kind of people 575 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: I was looking for. 576 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 4: What was the experience like that you experienced many times 577 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 4: being able to sing on Paradise when you were on 578 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 4: the J A. 579 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 5: John Prime bill. 580 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 1: Oh, you know, it's it's the same. You know, that's 581 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: not so different from from playing with anybody who's got 582 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: a huge audience out there that you're happy to be 583 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: in front of. It felt about the same as doing 584 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: the the uh the finale song on a show like 585 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 1: Mountain Stage. You know, you got a couple of thousand 586 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: people out there and and you're out there. It's sort 587 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: of you know, for me, I don't often get to 588 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: play for that many people on my own. I would 589 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: almost have to say never. I think maybe the biggest 590 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: crowd I've ever drawn on my own, there's like a 591 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: thousand people. So when you're staying in front of standing 592 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: in front of two thousand, three thousand and four thousand, 593 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: five thousand people, sometimes it's the associates. You get to 594 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: what you thought it might be like when you were 595 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: about fifteen. Yeah, you know, they say, this is a life. Man, 596 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: I'm a star now. God I find it nade a 597 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: big time. No, it's great. It's a great feeling, and 598 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 1: and it's exhilarating because you know, I played by myself 599 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: as a solo artist so much that to have that 600 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: a whole band, you know, playing behind you and people 601 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: singing into harmony, and you feel it just feels so powerful. 602 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's a you know, it's a great feeling. 603 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: It's a kind of thing musicians get addicted to. That's 604 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: why they do it until they're as old as I. 605 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 4: All about the Bones, I wanna talk about some of 606 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 4: the tracks on it. First of all, who's playing horn 607 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 4: on some of the track? 608 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: Chris Cheeks. 609 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:56,760 Speaker 5: Haunting. 610 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 1: Oh he's he's one of the three, maybe three best 611 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: saxophone players in the world. He's untouchable. Study yeah, yeah, yeah, 612 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: And you know what, except for one track, all those 613 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: were first takes. 614 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 5: Really yeah, wow, that's amazing. My personal favorite. 615 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 4: I mean that I've listened to about sixty times, even 616 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 4: though I love everything is Calm before the Storm ye 617 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 4: tell me about the creation of that song. 618 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. 619 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 5: It's not my song, that's not your song. 620 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: You know whose song is Eliza Gilkison. I don't know 621 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: how she wrote it. I'm glad she did. 622 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 5: It's a beautiful song, beautiful song. 623 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: I was. Yeah, I almost always do one or two 624 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: covers on the records. And then and Goodie taught me 625 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: into doing he wanted me. He's he's been asking me 626 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: to do a Tom Petty song for ages, you know, 627 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: and he finally had his way, and I'm glad he did. 628 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 5: Uh time. 629 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: It was a big word that came out. Really, we 630 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: had fun with that. Eliza Gilkeson is somebody that I've 631 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, had a not so secret crushure on for 632 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: twenty years or more. And and I just I love 633 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: the way she writes, I love the way she thinks 634 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: and she uh And also for this piece, you know, 635 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,959 Speaker 1: i'd i'd just come to the realization that I never 636 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: really uh worked with a woman s songs before. I 637 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: was always kicking these men, you know, you know, partly 638 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: cause I'm a guy, partly cause I can be a 639 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: little blind sometimes, you know. And so I started, you know, 640 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: I was consciously looking for a team to cover by 641 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: a woman and uh, and she's spraying pretty naturally to mind. 642 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: Uh then and that song just fell into place. You know. 643 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 1: I I I have a sense about what songs are 644 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: gonna work really well in open dting and and I 645 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: I said, oh, this is gonna work. It's gonna be 646 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: really fun. So I set to work on that, and 647 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: then we recorded it, and then it just went like 648 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: a breeze. It was and it sounded just the way 649 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: I'd heard it in my head, you know, it's and 650 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: uh then we just a few weeks ago, I got 651 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: a a a really nice note from Eliza, effusively praising 652 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: my version of her song and telling me how happy 653 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: she was. She said, this almost brought me to tears 654 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: and so forth. And it wasn't until I got that 655 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: from her that I even realized myself, like how desperately 656 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: I wanted her to like it, cause she's she said 657 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: to me, she's one of these women that it's almost 658 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: you know, I've said this before as well. She makes 659 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: me feel like a boy in short pants sometimes, you know. 660 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: I you know, like when you were when you were young, 661 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: and there's some girls and you didn't want to talk 662 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: to me and enormously attract get you, and you were 663 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,879 Speaker 1: tongue tight because you were so afraid you could say 664 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: the wrong thing. Oh you know, Uh, there's an element 665 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: of that in there. So I wrote her back and 666 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: told her, I agree, how pleased that was that she 667 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: liked it, that it really matter a great deal to me, 668 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: and uh, she acknowledged that it was a It was 669 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: a nice moment, you know. 670 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 4: As a you know, you start with all about the bones, 671 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 4: digging the hole, still believe in you, if not for 672 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 4: the devil. What I love about it is, in the 673 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 4: traditional sense of somebody who grew up listening to albums, 674 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 4: that it it flows so masterfully. 675 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,919 Speaker 5: It's it's it's a it's a. 676 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 4: Flow you don't want to turn away from, and then 677 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 4: you want it when it ends. It sort of is 678 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 4: this disappointment because it's like that's too quick. 679 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you'll be pleased to know that 680 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,760 Speaker 1: that that's the way it's gonna be when the vinyl 681 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: comes out, if it ever comes out. It's so hard 682 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: to get vinyl these days, but it was set up 683 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: that way on purpose. Goodie, My producers are very h 684 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: he's a stickler for album concept and what you just 685 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: listed down there is is side A, and we think 686 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: of the second five songs in side B exactly that. 687 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 4: I don't know if people think about that creators in 688 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 4: that way anymore. 689 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 1: Well young people, don't, you know, you get people in 690 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: their sixties and older they did. 691 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,280 Speaker 5: Did you ever encounter Tom Petty? 692 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: Never met him, never even saw me, never saw him. 693 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: I always admired his work. I just uh loved his 694 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: songwriting sentence, loved the fact that that he wrote these, 695 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: you know, out of left park hits, and they were 696 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: songs that were very different from any other kind of 697 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: pop hit, and yet they were enormous, enormous hits. Free Falling, No, 698 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: you listen to free Falling, and I think ninety percent 699 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 1: of the people who listened to that song, all they 700 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: can remember is free fall and all that beautiful harmony. 701 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: And it's a heartbreaking song. It is heartbreaking you when 702 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: you if you sit down and actually listen to the words, 703 00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: it's it's just awful, you know. And yet at the 704 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: same time, there's this beautiful sense of freedom associated with it. 705 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: But are you're not quite sure you really want to 706 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: be that free? And I you know, that's that's complex. 707 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: That's you know, that's not the stuff of pop hits, 708 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: but there it is. 709 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 4: You know, there's a new collection I just was listening 710 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 4: to on the way up to Amherst. It's called Country 711 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 4: Petty and it's people. 712 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 5: Covering his songs. 713 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 4: And there's one Are you familiar with Rihanna Giddens? Yeah, 714 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 4: Rihanna Giddens and this this whole orchestra behind her. They 715 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 4: do don't come around here no more in a really 716 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,280 Speaker 4: unique different way, like a take that sounds so cool 717 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 4: and and so Rihanna actually, but so true to Tom. 718 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,440 Speaker 1: That's what Stevie Nicks told Joe Walsh. You know, I 719 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: don't come around here in the morning. That's where that 720 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:01,800 Speaker 1: song came from. 721 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 5: Is that right? 722 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? And what's his name? I forget who it was 723 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: that overheard her telling Joe Walsh that don't come around 724 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: here no more and he telling that to Teddy, and 725 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:12,760 Speaker 1: Teddy wrote the song. 726 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 5: It's great. 727 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 4: God, Uh, is there anybody that you'd like to cover 728 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,359 Speaker 4: that you haven't covered? And conversely, is there someone who 729 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 4: hasn't covered you that you'd like them to cover you? 730 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:36,239 Speaker 1: Oh? You know, I'm so uncritical of that stuff. A 731 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, any songwriter will tell you this, and just 732 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: about any songwriter, it is a thrill to hear anybody 733 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: do any one of your songs, uh, Because whether they 734 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,360 Speaker 1: do a good job or a bad job, that means 735 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: just this, the song is out there on its own, 736 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: making its own way and the world. You know, if 737 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: they're like your kids, you know, you like to see 738 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: them become self sufficient. You like to see them they 739 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: can actually make a living. And if you're lucky once 740 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: in a while, they said to check home with dad. 741 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 1: You know it's. 742 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 4: In closing, Chris, is there is there's something you haven't 743 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 4: learned about yourself or your music that you'd like to learn. 744 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: Well, if I haven't learned it, it's hard for me 745 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: to put it in the name check. I don't. I 746 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: don't really, that would be a hard question for me 747 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: to figure out, you know. I'm just I just hope 748 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,360 Speaker 1: I keep I keep learning things that all the time, 749 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, I've developed them. I I've turned into a 750 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: much more tolerant person than I ever was then. Yet 751 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: there are things that's still driving me crazy, you know, 752 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: and and that I'm extremely intolerant of the kind of 753 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: dishonesty and venal self survey, it goes on in politics, 754 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: it's and and I think to myself, you know, how 755 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: how can people how can they listen to people like that? 756 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: How can they square that. 757 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 6: With any s sense of decency that they've ever had 758 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 6: in their life? And then I realized that, you know, 759 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,919 Speaker 6: most people are just trying to get along, just trying 760 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 6: to get along, and a. 761 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: Lot of 'em don't make a very good job, or 762 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: it's something they don't mean to do harm. They just 763 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 1: don't know, you know. And I was certainly that way once, 764 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: and in some respects I probably still am, you know, 765 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,760 Speaker 1: so like it's hard to throw stones, but I should 766 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: walk there sometimes. 767 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm grateful for you being on particular walk here 768 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 4: in Amherst. And congratulations on the new release, and thanks 769 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,319 Speaker 4: for all the the musical joy you continue to give us. 770 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. I'll keep trying. 771 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 772 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 2: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 773 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 2: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 774 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 2: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 775 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 2: and wherever you get your podcasts.