1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: From battling the red threat to bankrolling bizarre vengures. That 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: is the wildwide that USAAD has taken in history. It 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: was established by JFK in nineteen sixty one to counter communism, 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: but it's now dishing out nearly eight hundred million to 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: fund global censorship and radical gender ideologies. Not to mention 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: twenty million for an Iraqi Sesame Street, because that's the 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: best use of our taxpayer dollars. But it gets worse 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: than that because there have been numerous reports of the 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: money ending up in the hands of terrorists. So when 10 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: did this mission drift into chaos begin to unravel at all? 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: We're joined by J. Michael Waller. He's a former CIA 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: operative from the Cold War era, so we'll dig deep 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: into how USAD lost its way and discuss why. According 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: to Waller's book, Big Intel, how the CIA and the 15 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: FBI went from Cold War heroes to deep state villains. 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: Why politicians are so scared to probe the CIA. So 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: get ready for a no holds barred conversation about government 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: agencies that started with noble intentions but grew into these 19 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: behemoths of corruption. Stay tuned for J. Michael Waller Well Mike, 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: it's your first time on this show. I appreciate you 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: taking the time. I'd reached out to a group of 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: friends trying to figure out the right person to have 23 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: this conversation with, and you were recommended. So I appreciate 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: you making the time today. 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: Well, it's good to be on your show, Lisa. 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: So you recently authored a book called Big Intel, How 27 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: the CIA and the FBI went from the Cold War 28 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: heroes to deep state villains. I want to dig into 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: that a little bit deeper in a minute, but let's 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: talk about So you were a CIA operative. You spent 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: time in Central America. Tell me about that experience. You know, 32 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: what was it like? When did you get into the CIA? 33 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: Kind of give us a little bit of your background 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: and that. 35 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: Well, it was a really neat experience. I was only 36 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: twenty one. I was still an undergraduate in college, and 37 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: I got in in a very unorthodox way. I was. 38 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 2: I was active in college Republicans and Young Americans for Freedom. 39 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 2: And this was President Reagan's first term and his one 40 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: of his best friends, Bill Casey, who had fought the 41 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: Nazis in the OSS during World War Two, was CIA 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: director and he was dissatisfied at the time with how 43 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: the CIA had declined, and so what he was doing 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: was going around finding younger amateurs who really didn't know 45 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: what they were doing, and like in the OSS in 46 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: World War two. And so I was brought in that 47 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: way and went down to Central America with the Nicaraguin contrast, 48 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 2: which was a gorilla army fighting the communist Sandinista government. 49 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: So that's all I got my start, But never as 50 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: a CIA employee or you know, I never got trained 51 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 2: at the farm or anything. It was simply as a 52 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 2: as an asset down in Central America to collect intelligence. 53 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: So you had said that when you so when you 54 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: got in, the CIA was in decline at that moment. 55 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: I guess what do you think led to that decline? 56 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: And are there parallels to where we are today with 57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: the CIA. 58 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: Well, this was nineteen eighty three and eighty four when 59 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: it began, and so the CIA had been torn apart 60 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: in the late seventies, just four or five years earlier 61 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: by President Carter, and the LT just been gutted and 62 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 2: the whole mission to fight communism had been gutted. So 63 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: Reagan was really shocked at what he inherited. From the 64 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: CIA in case he was. So they were trying to 65 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: rebuild capacity, and they did it through hiring new employees, 66 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: but really a college undergrad just can't join the agency. 67 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: So that I was found out and I was recruited 68 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: and as a volunteer, so I got some walking around 69 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: money and just went down and did my thing. And 70 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: I guess the asset to that was you didn't know 71 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: what you were doing, so you didn't know what you 72 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: were not allowed to do, so you could accomplish more 73 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: that way, and you were completely off the books. And 74 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: I learned thirty years later that the pocket money that 75 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: I was given came from Bill Casey's pocket and he 76 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: was using that to get around certain congressional restrictions and 77 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: to be helping President Reagan get the Communies out of 78 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: Central America. 79 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: You know, you look at the CIA obviously had a 80 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: lot of activity in Central America, particularly you know, in 81 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: the context of the Cold War as well. You talked 82 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: about the Contras and supporting that rebel group. We were 83 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: involved in overthrowing or the CIA was involved in a 84 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: coup in Guatemala in the nineteen fifty four to overthrow 85 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: the government. At that point involvement in El Salvador. You know, 86 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: the list goes on as well, kind of like in 87 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: hindsight with a lot of the conversations we've had recently, 88 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: particularly post Afghanistan, with sort of nation building and you know, 89 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: when to get involved, when not to get involved, you know, 90 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: with hindsight looking back, like were those the right decisions 91 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: with the CIA's involvement throughout Central America and then also 92 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: sort of what's your opinion now on sort of regime 93 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: building and you know, or meddling so to speak, in 94 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: various areas of the world. 95 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: Yes, those were the right decisions. Most people won't say that, 96 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: but looking back, this was our southern border, and we 97 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: could either invade militarily or we could just let the 98 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 2: Soviets and their proxies take over on our southern border. 99 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: There's another alternative, and that's covert operations to influence the politics, 100 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: to influence even to help one faction defeat or overthrow 101 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: another faction. This is all in the American national interest 102 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: to do so. I think it was a great thing 103 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: that President Eisenhower did in nineteen fifty four to use 104 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: the CIA to overthrow a pro Soviet. Remember this is 105 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: Stalin had just died, So this guy would have you know, 106 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: he was aligning himself with all the Stalinists to build 107 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 2: a regime right on our order, and so it was 108 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: vital for President Eisenhower to be decisive and get rid 109 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 2: of that regime. 110 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: I guess, how involved currently do you think the CIA 111 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: is in, you know, involving itself in sort of regime 112 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: change throughout the world, or you know, I guess sort 113 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: of what's the CIA's role currently and those sorts of engagements. 114 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: Well, we knew what it was when we had military 115 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 2: forces deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it's understandable that 116 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: we would have all our instruments of power working together, 117 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: and it was a war against the terrorists who attacked us. 118 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 2: So they were just wars. They were just messed up 119 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 2: the way they were carried out, because what you had 120 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: was this nation building exercise that got us nowhere, however 121 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: in nonviolent places. You know, we won't know what's happening 122 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: with the CIA until the future when it's declassified. But 123 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: the CIA has been it was never a right wing 124 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: organization the way it's been trade. The whole strategy in 125 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: the Cold War was to peel away the left, peel 126 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 2: away elements of the left and support the center left 127 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: and sometimes the far left that was sort of on 128 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: the borderline. Are they going to side with the Soviets 129 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: or the Chinese or can we peel them away? So 130 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: the CIA had invested a lot in that and in 131 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: other countries in the center right, but seldom the far right, 132 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: anti communists. It was always the you know, fairly moderate 133 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: to left. And this is one of the misconceptions of 134 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: CIA covert operations because I think people will be surprised 135 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: to find how much of the left around the world 136 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: the CIA actually funded and controlled. 137 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: Dig into that a little bit, do you mind kind 138 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: of building that out? 139 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: Sure? And this started in Europe where the real resistance. Okay, 140 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: think of containment. So we just defeated the Nazis and 141 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: the fascists in Europe, and now what's happening. The Soviets 142 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: are using their subversive networks because they were the only 143 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: ones with organized resistance movements that we had to hijack 144 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: or ourselves to to fight the Nazis in the underground 145 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: in France and Greece and elsewhere. Stalin was using those 146 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: to seize control of those countries after we had defeated 147 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: the enemy, so his view of the war by nineteen 148 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: forty three had decided he was going to conquer all 149 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: of Europe. He would do what he could militarily, and 150 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: then he would subvert the rest under British and French 151 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: and American domination. So we were up against do we 152 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: surrender all our gains and surrender Europe to Stalin? Or 153 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: do we run covert operations to prevent that from happening. 154 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: And the real miracle came in the Italian elections of 155 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: nineteen forty seven, where the CIA man on the ground 156 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: there James Angleton, sort of on a whim. He was 157 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: one of these amateurs that had been recruited into the OSS. 158 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: He was a really superb individual at the time, and 159 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: he got funding from the USA and from wealthy Italians 160 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: as a CIA man to fund the Christian Democrat Party 161 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: that was the center right Catholic party in Italy because 162 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: there was no real political cohesive movement against the communist parties. 163 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: So he prevented Italy from going communists in nineteen forty seven. 164 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: Can you imagine if Italy had fallen to Stalin? 165 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: No way, I mean, I guess, I guess what I 166 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: think about often is sort of just like the broader 167 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: context about you know, when we talk about like democracy, 168 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: if we're intervening in other countries democracy, like can we 169 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, It's just I sort of I go 170 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: back and forth in my mind about some of these 171 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: broader like can you preach democracy if we're you know, 172 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: staging coups and overthrowing governments and democratically like you know 173 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: what I mean? And I'm not saying like and look, 174 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, we've got to do what's in the best 175 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: interests of the country, So I'm not saying I'm against it. 176 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: It's just sort of this broader question that I think 177 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: of and ask myself. 178 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: Sure, well, it's a great question, and it's a really 179 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: fair one because you know, if we're meddling around in 180 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: other countries democracies, how can we preach democracy. On the 181 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: other hand, we wouldn't have our own constitutional republic that's 182 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 2: a democracy, had it not been for the French Secret 183 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 2: Service and the French military helping us during the Revolutionary War. 184 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: So in this case, if you have now, when you 185 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: have totalitarian movements like communism infiltrating democratic societies to subvert 186 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: them from within and recruiting mainstream politicians who are covert 187 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 2: enemy agents, and they're using the democratic system of their 188 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: countries as a device to seize power for good. Then 189 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: you're really defending democracy by subverting what the communists are 190 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: trying to do and helping the good guys be a 191 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: center right or center left. I think that's fine, and 192 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: that is fine from our point of view. I wouldn't 193 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: like other kind doing it to us, but we're not 194 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: other countries, you know. So the problem comes when the 195 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 2: CIA intervenes covertly in American politics or in the American 196 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 2: media to influence how the American public, you know, sees 197 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: the world and understands things and how they vote. That's 198 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: where the danger comes. 199 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: I guess let's get into USAID for a moment. So 200 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: it was created in the context of the Cold War, 201 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: established by Kennedy. I guess talk about how it was 202 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: used then and what's changed since then. Well, I mean, 203 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: obviously a lot has changed since then, but in the 204 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: way that USAID operates and is it still a force 205 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: for good or was it ever? 206 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: Well, it has quite an interesting history and I think 207 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: overall it really benefited US a lot as well as 208 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: arguably billions of people around the world. But the US 209 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: started using foreign aid right after World War Two with 210 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe and similar programs to 211 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: rebuild Japan and other parts of Asia. And that was 212 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: to help us to win the peace and to keep 213 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: Stalin and then Mao, who was backed by Stalin and 214 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: a lot of them at the time, from conquering those 215 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 2: areas around them and helping them to rebuild and join 216 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: a Western alliance or a series of Western alliances that 217 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 2: were being built. And then also to prevent Japan and 218 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: Germany from rising to become militaristic, aggressive powers again. And 219 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: it worked really, really well. Then there was a whole 220 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: system of banking and finance to fund these recoveries and 221 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: to get these economies back on their feet and to 222 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 2: rebuild industries in these countries. And he ended up making 223 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 2: our two worst enemies, Imperial Japan and Germany, two of 224 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 2: our closest allies and most important allies for more than 225 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 2: half a century. So it was a wonderful success. So 226 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: this idea begun under Truman, continue to under Eisenhower, spread 227 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: out to other forms of aid to provide grain, agricultural 228 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: assistance to other countries in need to avoid famine and 229 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: to build goodwill, to show that we meant goodwill in 230 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: these countries, and also to subsidize the American farm industry 231 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: and to expand the farming industry. That worked well. So 232 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 2: what President Kennedy did when he took power in nineteen 233 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 2: sixty one, first and he inherited a CIA coverd operation 234 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 2: that he didn't even know about until after he became president, 235 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: which was Eisenhower's plan to use the CIA to arm 236 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: and equip a Cuban exile guerrilla army to invade their country, 237 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 2: which Castro had just taken over a year and a 238 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: half or two before, and to overthrow Castro and to 239 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 2: get rid of the Communist regime there. And that failed 240 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: at the Bay of Pigs with the invasion. So Kennedy 241 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: was really stung by this whole Bay of Pigs invasion, 242 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: in which he knew about by that time, but he 243 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 2: hadn't prepared for it. This is early sixty one, and 244 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: he thought there's got to be other ways. He gave 245 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: a speech to an association of news editors and he said, 246 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: there's this relentless communist subversion in every corner of the world. 247 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: We have to fight it somehow, we have to develop 248 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: new means to fight it. And sometimes it's going to 249 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: look great, and sometimes it's going to look terrible, but 250 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: we're going to have to do that. And through that 251 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: was the speech that helped shape what became the US 252 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: Agency for International Development USAID, which was one of these 253 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: tools with US Information Agency for broadcasting to countries that 254 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: well friendly and hostile countries so that people could get 255 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: the voice of America right, which had been set up 256 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: during World War II, So a US Information Agency had up, 257 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: So we had all these different agencies for soft power, 258 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: and USAID became one of those agencies for soft power. 259 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: And it was never a giveaway program for charity's sake. 260 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: It was an instrument of statecraft to make sure that 261 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: our inter were advanced in every corner of the world 262 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: that mattered to us. 263 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: But are they in terms of I mean, do we 264 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: do we do you see that return on investment? Then 265 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: in terms of you know, getting other countries to sort of, 266 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, do what we want in return. 267 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: Yes, we've seen it. We've seen it over the decades. 268 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: So this has been what sixty four years, and we've 269 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: seen it happen time and again over the decades. We've 270 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: seen it backfire on us as well. But here's a 271 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: case where you have the propaganda that was being incessantly 272 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: pushed on the whole developing world now in the nineteen 273 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: fifties and sixties with decolonization, was America is a capitalist, 274 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 2: imperial power, a racist power that wants to repress the 275 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: poor people of the world. And it was a very 276 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: appealing propaganda campaign because America had sided with the British 277 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: and French and Belgium and other Portuguese and other colonists' 278 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: colonial powers. So we ended up getting the blame for 279 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: what those colonial powers had done. So to fight that, 280 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: we built a lot of good will in these countries. 281 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: We helped a lot of friendly leaders in those countries 282 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: to show that they could provide for their people, which 283 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: they couldn't before, and they couldn't without our support. So 284 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: we were able to help them, work with them, boost them, 285 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: and then also use this aid as leverage to affect 286 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 2: their behavior to make sure they kept Soviet troops out, 287 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: or they didn't allow a Soviet embassy in there, or 288 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: they cracked down on Soviet communist parties and subversive groups 289 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: that were backed by the Soviets to overthrow those governments 290 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 2: one day. So in those senses, yes, it really helped 291 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: us out. A lot. Where it got a black eye 292 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: reputation wise, was in Vietnam during the Vietnam War, because 293 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: USAID he was running a whole lot of humanitarian programs 294 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: in South Vietnam as part of our war effort. But 295 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: that's where the national consensus about fighting the Cold War 296 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: really broke down because of the unfair way that the 297 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: draft was to fight the war, and then the fact 298 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 2: that there was no real victory plan and President Johnson 299 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: was trying to fight the war without much publicity so 300 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: that he could push his big social great society programs 301 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 2: here at home. So it worked out really really poorly 302 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 2: for US in Vietnam. And then then came Watergate and 303 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 2: the fall of Vietnam and Watergate and these other scandals 304 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: and the Church Committee hearings to expose what the CIA 305 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 2: had done. This is all in the mid seventies, and 306 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: then President Carter coming in saying we've got to tear 307 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 2: this stuff apart and reassess what we're doing. A lot 308 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 2: of the Cold warriors left USAID, and then a lot 309 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 2: of well meaning people and do gooders I would call them, 310 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: came in and so the whole nature of the agency 311 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: changed and it developed mission cree. So it was no 312 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 2: longer going to become an instrument in the US foreign policy. 313 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 2: It became more of a giveaway program in a sort 314 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 2: of a patronizing way for us to just share the 315 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 2: wealth around the world bile getting nothing in return. 316 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: We've got more with Mike Waller. But first, as long 317 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: as the abortion pill is legally mailed and taken in 318 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: all fifty states, no state can truly be abortion free. 319 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: Abortion pills carry distinct risks to both mothers and death 320 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: to babies, and now accounts for over sixty percent of 321 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: all abortions. Preborn's networks of clinics shine a light into 322 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: this darkness by offering free services to women considering the 323 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: future of the baby, including the abortion reversal pill. This 324 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: powerful remedy can help reverse the curse of this toxic pill. 325 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: Preborn reaches into the heart of babies and mothers with 326 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: God's love and compassion, and to date they have rescued 327 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 1: over three hundred thousand babies. Your tax deductible monthly support 328 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: of any amount is crucial in the fight for life. 329 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: All proceeds go towards life, and together we can reverse 330 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: the curse. Saving babies isn't just about one life, It's 331 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: about saving the heartbeat of an entire nation. To donate, 332 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: please call pound two fifty and say the keyword baby. 333 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: That's pound two fifty baby, or visit preborn dot com 334 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: slash booth that's preborn dot com slash booth b O 335 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: O t G. One question a lot of people have 336 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: is is the getting in return? You know, has it 337 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: USA D has it become sort of like a money 338 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: laundering scheme, does a certain degree where you know, you've 339 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: got uh, like the Biden administration, for instance, gives all 340 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: these moneys to all this money to like ng os 341 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: and you know, democrat connected groups, and then those people 342 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: end up being the don't you know, and it just 343 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: kind of like the circular you know, where people sort 344 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 1: of use it to sort of enrich themselves and their 345 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: friends to a certain degree, right. 346 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 2: Right, And this is this is where the whole thing 347 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 2: started falling apart, because first of all, you had us 348 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 2: ai D employees, you know, people in the civil service 349 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 2: equivalent running these programs, and as us say i'd be expanded, 350 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: you know, to to scale up your capabilities, you need 351 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: to hire outside contractors. Well, the outside contractors get paid, 352 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 2: but they get paid more than the civil service people 353 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 2: get paid. And then the if you own an AID company, 354 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 2: you can pay yourself a nice salary, but then you 355 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: can take ten percent profit off the gross size of 356 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: the of the grant or the contract, so you can 357 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: become a millionaire, a multimillionaire very quickly. As the USAID employee. 358 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: If you think, Okay, I'm going to plan to quit 359 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: in two years, and I'm going to promote these people 360 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 2: to take my place, and then they're going to issue 361 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 2: contracts to me, and then and and so, then it 362 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 2: just becomes a money grabbing enterprise with with a do 363 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: gooder kind of mentality or even worse, a politicized mentality 364 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: like we're going to we're just not going to help 365 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: people get fed and have better roads and sanitation. We're 366 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: going to change the world and become a social revolutionary force, 367 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: you like. 368 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: For instant oh sorry, no goal. For instance, you know 369 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: you look at some of even these like Catholic NGOs, 370 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: you know they've been sued by the state of Texas 371 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: for you know, alleged role in human trafficking or you 372 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:12,479 Speaker 1: know what I mean. So you look at a lot 373 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: of these things, sometimes under the guise of helping, and 374 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: you know, I think most people would make the argument 375 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: that that's against American interests to be bringing a legal 376 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: aliens into the United States and to be assisted by that, 377 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: particularly assisted by taxpayer dollars. So I guess what should 378 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: become of US A I D. I mean, the Trumpet 379 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: administration is not the first administration to think about and 380 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: entertain the idea of merging it with the State Department. 381 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: The Clinton Clinton administration had entertained that idea as well. 382 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: So I guess, like, what should we do with U 383 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: S A I D. And are they working in our 384 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: interest or you know, against her interests? 385 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 2: Well, they started working against our interests when they when 386 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: they began supporting our enemies funding Marxist groups, funding pro 387 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 2: Chinese groups, funding pro Hamas and Hesbelah and Jahadis groups 388 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: all around the world, in the Americas, in Africa, in 389 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 2: the Middle East. You know, when you see Hesbela and 390 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: Hamas with USAID tents and food and all these other things, 391 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 2: you obviously the agency lost complete control of its mission 392 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 2: gave up its mission, and it had become a sovereign 393 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: entity within the US government. So even though it's legally 394 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: under the State Department and supposed to be under the 395 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 2: direction of the Secretary of State, it never was that. 396 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: After the after Vietnam, it had become this state within 397 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: a state, and then as we're learning now, it became 398 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: this huge slush fund for a domestic political machine here 399 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 2: at home. That's a crime under the law. This is 400 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: under section fifty of federal law, which is for foreign aid. 401 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 2: It is not for or any activity of a political 402 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 2: nature in the United States. Yet that's what it's done. 403 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, Okay, so let's talk a little 404 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: bit about you know, your your book and wanting to 405 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: reign in the CIA and the FBI. I guess how 406 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: how corruptive, how corrupted have they become? And you know, 407 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: when do you think that happened? Why do you think 408 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: that happened? And is it even possible at this point 409 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: to reform it in a way where either or a 410 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: force for good. 411 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 2: Well, they were both a force for good FBI and CIA. 412 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: And I tracked this in Big Intel, which, by the way, 413 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 2: it said out only to what happened to CIA, FBI, 414 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 2: and how did they get so woke to become self 415 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: destructive and damaging to the country. And I was just 416 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 2: looking at Obama, Trump and Biden, and then I started 417 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 2: tracing this red threadback, Well, who is in charge of this? Well, 418 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 2: how did they get motivated to do this and why? 419 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 2: And you go back through the genealogy of this, and 420 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 2: you could trace it back to a Soviet meeting in 421 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: Moscow five years after the Bolshevik Revolution in nineteen twenty two, 422 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: when a representative of Lenin, when the head of what 423 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: became the KGB and the heads of the communist parties 424 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 2: of Europe got together to meet where they decided, we 425 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 2: can't replicate a Bolshevik revolution in the Western countries because 426 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 2: the conditions are not there for that. We're going to 427 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: have to find another way. So they decided to set 428 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 2: up a subversive movement to not just infiltrate societies, but 429 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: to fight Marxism in the cultural manner, not in the 430 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: economic pore against the economically wealthy, but as a social 431 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 2: movement to destroy all the beliefs that Western civilization has had, 432 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: whether it was their patriotism, whether it was their religion, 433 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: whether it was faith in God at all on which 434 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: civilization was built, whether it was on the law, whether 435 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: it was on the family unit. All of these things 436 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: had to be destroyed in the minds of the public 437 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 2: in order for large numbers of people to question everything 438 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 2: and to feel that their societies are evil and they're 439 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: the source of evil, and therefore they must be destroyed 440 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 2: down to the family level. So that was the cultural 441 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 2: side of Marxism, which is called critical theory, and that's 442 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 2: where we get critical race theory, critical law theory dei. 443 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 2: It all stems from that, and it's all very subversive 444 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 2: and corrosive of the societies. So J. Edgar Hoover, who 445 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: was the longest serving leader of the FBI, but back 446 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: as early as nineteen twenty, before he even went into 447 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 2: the bureau, he was warning about this. He said, they 448 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 2: are foreign born agitators here who came here as anarchists 449 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 2: and radical socialists and communists, and they are trying to 450 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: infiltrate every element of our society and destroy what we 451 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 2: have as a country. We have to do something to 452 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 2: round them up, get them out, and then watch those 453 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 2: who remain, because they're destroying it. So that's how Hoover 454 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 2: got started in the FBI, and the FBI's own function, 455 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 2: by statute, is to defend the country against foreign propaganda 456 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: and covert operations. It stopped doing that at about the 457 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 2: same time USAID began collapsing after Watergate and Vietnam and 458 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 2: the Carter administration. It didn't become woke until the Obama administration, 459 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: so it was sort of the last bastion to fall. 460 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 2: But the CIA had already gone that way earlier. Now, 461 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 2: CIA was supposed to be collecting intelligence and having an 462 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 2: institutional memory to know how did we get here to 463 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: the situation where we are today, so that we can 464 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 2: combat it abroad and collect intelligence on it abroad to 465 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 2: advise our president or presidents and his designees on what's happening. 466 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: And CIA dropped the ball on that completely in the 467 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: late nineteen seventies. 468 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: But I mean people like Ron Paul warning back in 469 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties that it seemed like the FBI's sole 470 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: job was to spy on Americans who disagreed with the 471 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: government on policy. Did it surprise you to find out 472 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: how the FBI spied on you know, then candidate Donald Trump? 473 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 2: Yes, And this is where it became a real, real danger. 474 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 2: Today's FBI is far more dangerous and far more abusive 475 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: than Jaygar Hoover ever was. Hoover was powerful as a person, 476 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 2: and he built the FBI as a powerful institution, but 477 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: he didn't have the technology. He didn't have the legal 478 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 2: leeway even though he violated the law in many cases. 479 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 2: He didn't have the legal leeway that the current FBI has. 480 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: A powerful an FBI director as he was, he had 481 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 2: a decentralized bureau where he couldn't just open up a 482 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: case on somebody in some state somewhere and say investigate 483 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: them or raid them. That was all done by the 484 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: local field officers who made those decisions, fifty six of 485 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 2: them around the country, and they reported up to him. 486 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 2: So he didn't even have a swat team. He didn't 487 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 2: even have tactical units. So he had nothing at the 488 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: FBI has today, let alone the technology that the bureau has. 489 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 2: So we're in a much more dangerous situation today than 490 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 2: when Hoover was at his worst. 491 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: Is it a top down problem that we have now 492 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: or is it an everyone problem? 493 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: It's both. So you had people being recruited into the 494 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 2: FBI or the CIA for that matter, anywhere in government. 495 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: They're coming out of university, what are they trained in? 496 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 2: What are so many of them indoctrinated in? You know, 497 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 2: with every law school almost in the country now preaching 498 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 2: teaching critical law theory, which is which is the legal 499 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 2: form of critical race theory, the legal equivalent to use 500 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: American law as a weapon to achieve a defined political 501 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: and social objective. It's no longer about justice. So that's 502 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: really dangerous. And even though a lot of people in 503 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: the bureau, most of them don't necessarily subscribe to that, 504 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: the attitudes have change. And when you have people in 505 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 2: the Bureau who don't even know what founding principles are anymore, 506 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 2: and there's a resentment against America as a racist society 507 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: that was founded by racists, founded by a corrupt, rich 508 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: patrimony of slave owners who wanted to oppress everybody else, 509 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: and they really view that we have to correct this, 510 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: we have to make good on this, we have to 511 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: be critical of all of this to make change. And 512 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 2: then the FBI becomes a change agent, which is illegal 513 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: for it to do. But that's the mentality of so 514 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: much of the management within the bureau, and those types 515 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: of individuals have been had been promoted over the years 516 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: and then artificially elevated in the Obama administration at a 517 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: time when the reorganization of the FBI post nine to 518 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: eleven was to create a giant management system at the 519 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: top over sixty three senior executive service positions and now 520 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 2: the field office, the special agents in charge of the 521 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: field offices around the country no longer had direct access 522 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: to the director. They had to go through as many 523 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: as fifteen steps just to speak to the director. And 524 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: this empowered a huge new bureaucracy at the top that 525 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: could dictate downward. And that's where the real danger expanded. 526 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: What should President Trump and his administration do about it? 527 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: You know, I guess what can you get done in 528 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: four years in terms of reform with some of our 529 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: intelligence agencies. 530 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: Well, Trump has gotten a whole lot done in three weeks. Think, yeah, 531 00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 2: I'm the whole world. 532 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: I think he just like had a notepad and every day, 533 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: like throughout the day for the past you know, for 534 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: years he's been out of office, past four years, he's 535 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: just like written lists every single day of all things 536 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: he wanted to do when he got back in a power. 537 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: And then now we're saying that come to fruition. 538 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 2: And he had some really excellent and very experienced and 539 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: cohesive policy teams in whatever part of the government that 540 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 2: he was most interested in addressing, as well as legal teams. 541 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: And they didn't exist as teams before in his first 542 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 2: term because he didn't even think he was going to win, 543 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 2: So he just threw teams together of people who didn't 544 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 2: even know each other. Now you have people who'd known 545 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: each other for years, they trust each other, they work together, 546 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 2: and that's why he had so many really well written 547 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 2: executive orders coming out, you know, every hour every day 548 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: practically since he's been inaugurated. With the FBI, the FBI 549 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 2: was founded not by law. It doesn't exist under any 550 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 2: Act of Congress. It was founded by a one page 551 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 2: memorandum from an Attorney general in nineteen oh eight, and 552 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: that's what the Bureau says was it's founding document. And 553 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: there was never a legal statute establishing the FBI the 554 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 2: way there was with say the CIA. So I argue 555 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 2: and beg intel that the President should simply rescind that 556 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 2: Attorney General memorandum of nineteen oh eight and dissolve the FBI. 557 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean get rid of all its people and 558 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: its functions and everything, because we need most of them. 559 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: So if you take the Criminal Division of the FBI 560 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 2: that investigates crime and arrests criminals, and you move it 561 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: to the US Marshals Service, which is a very underappreciated 562 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 2: federal law enforcement agency that dates all the way back 563 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: to the founding fathers and still has a good reputation. 564 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: You take the FBI training, the FBI Academy. You'll also 565 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 2: hand that over to the US Marshals, because the Marshals 566 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: are sort of the least woke of the federal lawf 567 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: hoorsement agencies. And then you take the FBI national security 568 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: side of it, you know, fighting against spies, counter terrorism, 569 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: and you divide that into a couple of different units, 570 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 2: but create a good standalone counter intelligence service and the 571 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: Public Corruption Unit. You would make an entity of the 572 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: of the Criminal Division that would be moved over to 573 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: the Marshals as well, and pretty soon you'll find that 574 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: you you know, the FBI doesn't need to be doing 575 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 2: the work of ATF on firearms and explosive crimes. So 576 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 2: take all those FBI personnel working there, move them to 577 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 2: ATF and then we'll deal with atf later and the 578 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 2: same thing with that. You don't need a counter narcotics 579 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: unit in the FBI when we already have a drug 580 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 2: enforcement administration. So you move that unit from the FBI 581 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 2: over to the DEA. And now you don't really have 582 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 2: much left of the FBI, so you can just dissolve 583 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 2: it and it's split up, so it can't you won't 584 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: have a central law enforcement apparatus anymore to harass and 585 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: abuse the public. Another thing what happened after nine to 586 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: eleven is we're the only democracy in the world of 587 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: any size that has combined domestic law enforcement with domestic intelligence. 588 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 2: So it's an internal spy agency as well as an 589 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: internal law enforcement agency. Those two functions cannot co exist 590 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 2: under the same roof. 591 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: Well, and we've seen, you know, as a result of that, 592 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: things with the Patriot Act and you know, abuse from 593 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: our intelligence agencies and spying on Americans and using it 594 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: as an excuse to spy on us. We've got to 595 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: take a quick commercial break more with Mike Waller on 596 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: the other side. The things that you laid out that 597 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: you would like to see the Trump administration do, and 598 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: some that they have already done, how much of they can. 599 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: Can they do that unilaterally versus you know, do they 600 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: need Congress to be involved in that or you know, 601 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: how much can they do on their own? 602 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 2: Well, most of what I explained in terms of the 603 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 2: FBI doesn't need Congress except where it would affect certain 604 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: budgets where something was appropriated out of a certain budget, 605 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 2: and then they would need congressional approval for that. But 606 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 2: you can, as we've seen with usaid the president can 607 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: unilaterally chop it down ninety five percent if he wants to. 608 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: And then you have lawsuits coming in and you have 609 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 2: all kinds of other challenges. But the way he's handling 610 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 2: it with us and he's shocked the public enough to 611 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 2: help them understand what many already felt, and that is 612 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 2: the central government is too out of control. It's wasting 613 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 2: our money and is spending our money on things that 614 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 2: are harmful to us as a country. And the people 615 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 2: who are defending it, the president's political opponents, say nothing 616 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 2: about fixing the problems or cutting the waste or cutting 617 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 2: the abuse. They just want the thing as it already was. 618 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: So I think the president has a lot of leeway 619 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 2: right now to do what he needs to downsize the 620 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 2: FBI because it's too bloated, it's too big, taken away 621 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 2: powers from the states and the local sheriffs, even though 622 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 2: it works with them a lot. It takes credit for 623 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 2: the work they do, and then they get more money 624 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 2: to expand their staff and authority even further. So the 625 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: president can chop it down, handle a lot of power 626 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 2: back to the states and won't need Congress for that, 627 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 2: especially if now, if you've got to omb chief and 628 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: there Russ Boat, who understands this problem very well. He 629 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 2: doesn't have to ask Congress for a budget for these 630 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 2: things anymore. He can ask for zero if he wishes, 631 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 2: so he'll have a lot of the budgetary authority, and 632 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 2: then if Congress does appropriate money, the president can decide 633 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: not to spend it. 634 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: No, you're right, I mean, I think the broader problem 635 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: with all of this, and like this entire conversation with 636 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: the FBI and the CIA and USAAD is just government's 637 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: gone too big and then it gets out of hand 638 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: and then starts, you know, doing things like you'd talked 639 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: about with USAD, working against American interest, and you know, 640 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: we sort of lose track about what each of these 641 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: agencies and various aspects of our government are doing. It 642 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: sort of becomes its own beast. Is there anything in 643 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: this conversation that you'd like to get across that we 644 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to do so yet. 645 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it's really easy to get upset 646 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 2: about this stuff and get demoralized about it and think 647 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 2: it's all hopeless. But what we're seeing before in our 648 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 2: eyes right now is there's a lot of hope. This 649 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 2: is a great time to be alive and a great 650 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 2: time to witness what's happening and even participate in what's 651 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 2: happening where you can even have Now look at you've 652 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: got the DOGE team pulling out information on waste, fraud 653 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 2: and abuse and corruption and in its raw form and 654 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 2: then putting it out there for the public to look at. 655 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 2: And there's going to be more crowdsourcing of this, and 656 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 2: the encouragement and the aority of whistleblowers and the restitution 657 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: of previous whistle blows whose careers were destroyed because they 658 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 2: came forward through legal means just to tell the truth. 659 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,439 Speaker 2: So I think we're going to have a lot more 660 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 2: public ability to scrutinize what's happening in our government agencies 661 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 2: and how that money is being spent, and a greater 662 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 2: political pressure on all politicians to do something about it. So, 663 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 2: despite the very narrow margins Trump has in the House 664 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 2: and the Senate, I think things are going to get 665 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 2: to the point where you'll have some sort of bipartisan 666 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 2: majorities pushing through a lot of reforms that will be 667 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 2: enshrined in law, not yet the presidential executive order that 668 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 2: another president can resind, you know. 669 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: And I think right now he's got obviously a lot 670 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: of juice coming off of, you know, the first popular 671 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: vote for Republican in twenty years. He's got approval rate 672 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: and majority of Americans are approving of what he's doing, 673 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: you know. So right now he's got a lot of 674 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: momentum behind him to try to make some of these reforms. 675 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: And I think like he's going to end up rebuilding 676 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: Americans faith in government because I think for the longest time, 677 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: we've been told or you know, a lot of people 678 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: have operated with the mentality of secrecy and not telling Americans, oh, 679 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: this is in your interests, you know, this is dangerous 680 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: if we put this information out there, if we declassify this, 681 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,800 Speaker 1: and in reality, I think transparency brings trust and transparency 682 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: is what is going to rebuild faith in government. Transparency 683 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: is going to what is going to be what leads 684 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: to a more unified country. So, you know, I've had 685 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: this conversation with someone earlier today about just how much 686 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: what a transformational figure he has been for the country, 687 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: and like every aspect from just reshaping the Republican Party 688 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: to reshaping government, to reshaping media, to reshaping the way 689 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: Americans even think about their government. I mean most I mean, 690 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: you probably knew because you worked in the CIA, but 691 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, he's brought a lot of it to light 692 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: about just the depths of the corruption of our government 693 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: that you know, I think we you know, obviously we 694 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: saw glimpses of it during the Obama illustration, and you know, 695 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: the targeting of Tea Party with the Irs, and you know, 696 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: the list goes on. But I don't think a lot 697 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: of us knew just how corrupt or government is and 698 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:13,879 Speaker 1: how a bad it's gone. 699 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 2: Right, And a lot of people inside the government don't 700 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 2: even think what they're doing is corrupt or wrong because 701 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: that's how they were hired, that's how they were trained, 702 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 2: that's the attitude they have, And so not everybody in 703 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 2: the government is a completely lost soul. There are some 704 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 2: very capable people, very very good people, very devoted people 705 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 2: to whatever service they're providing in the government, so we 706 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 2: have something to work with once the big personnel changes 707 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 2: are made and the big personnel reductions are done. So 708 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: it's not like we're going to lose a lot of 709 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 2: good people or like we don't have good people in 710 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 2: there with the experience that the newer people will need 711 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 2: to get things done the right way. So it's very 712 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 2: exciting to see. I've been talking to people in some 713 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 2: of the three letter agencies and have been really encouraged 714 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 2: at the level of support among a small number of 715 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:16,399 Speaker 2: highly capable, well placed people who they didn't They're not say, 716 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 2: they're not maga people, they're just professionals, but they really 717 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 2: see that the president is articulating what they've known had 718 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 2: to be done for most of their careers, and they're 719 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,280 Speaker 2: there to help undo this mess. 720 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,359 Speaker 1: No. I mean you're right in the sense of, you know, 721 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: to some degree, people are living in their own universe, 722 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: Like you know, Pete Bojo just has been tweeting out 723 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: about the threats of democracy and how Trump's dangerous, and 724 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm like you guys just try to throw them in jail. 725 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's like a different right, you know. But 726 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: I really do think that he thinks Trump is a 727 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: threat to democracy, and like somehow what he was doing 728 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: and trying, you know, in the desire to throw Trump 729 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: in jail, like they were doing the right thing. And 730 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: that's in the interesting you know. So it's like, you know, 731 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: how do you Yeah, you know, it's almost just two wins, right, 732 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: because you're never going to change someone like that's mind, 733 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: and they live in their own universe. Fortunately there's more 734 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: of us than there are of them. But you know, 735 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,359 Speaker 1: I think he really does think Trump is a threat 736 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,879 Speaker 1: to democracy and somehow throwing your political opponent in jail 737 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: is justified. 738 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, But if this was done in another country, those 739 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 2: same people would throw sanctions on him, saying, you're destroying 740 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 2: democracy by jailing your opponents and then by hounding everybody 741 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 2: else through prosecutions and lawsuits and everything. You're subverting the 742 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 2: democracy of your own countries by doing this. But they 743 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 2: don't look inward. And somebody like Buddha Jegs. He was 744 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 2: raised by a father who was a Marxist, who was 745 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 2: a scholar of one of the founders of what became 746 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 2: critical theory, Antonio Gramsci Gramscy pioneered the communist tactics of 747 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 2: infiltrating very very very slowly over generations through institutions, taking 748 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 2: them over, starting with universities and then elementary schools through 749 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 2: high school and then professional schools, and getting people into 750 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 2: the profession who had been pretty much brainwashed to view 751 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 2: the world in a certain way. That's so you get 752 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 2: all this this this this receptivity toward the wokeness that 753 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 2: Obama imposed from the top was the Gramsey type of 754 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 2: people had been working for a century now since Gramsey 755 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 2: first articulated this to march through these institutions and take 756 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 2: them over. And nobody knows this better than Pete Botagest 757 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 2: because that's the way his dad raised him well. 758 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: And Kamal Harris his dad was a Marxist as well. 759 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: So I guess you you know that solves that problem. 760 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. And Valerie Jarret's parents were Companist party. You know, 761 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 2: she was the you know, she lived in the White House. 762 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 2: She's so close to the Obama She introduced them when 763 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 2: she was working for the Chicago uh, you know the 764 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 2: city of Chicago, and Obama himself was mentored from age 765 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 2: nine by a man named Frank Marshall Davis, who was 766 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,240 Speaker 2: an old Stalinist and Communist Party member, and he raised 767 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 2: he helped shape Obama's worldview as a young person. In 768 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 2: his first autobiography, Obama mentioned somebody named Frank, but didn't 769 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 2: say his last name who was so important in him 770 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 2: because he was trying to hide the fact that it 771 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 2: was Frank Marshall Davis, who you can find out was 772 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 2: a hardcore Balonist and Communist Party person throughout his life. 773 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 2: He broke with Stalin after Stalin's death. But imagine if 774 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 2: you're raised from this as a as a child, if 775 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 2: you're raised in this type of ideology, and it becomes 776 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 2: normal for you, so when you go into college, you 777 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 2: become an activist. When you get out of college, a 778 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 2: guy like Obama could have made a fortune and finance, 779 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 2: but he chose to become a community organizers being mentored 780 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 2: by the weather underground. 781 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: I guess you know when you had mentioned on you 782 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,919 Speaker 1: know Peep, you to judge, and you know us trying 783 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: to throw or not us them trying to throw Trump 784 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: in jail, and then it makes it hard to then 785 00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 1: you know, pre each other. I guess that's kind of 786 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: like my thought us in sort of the broader conversation 787 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: of you know, when we meddle in other countries, if 788 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: we're not, you know, can we really push democracy, particularly 789 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: if we're not practicing it at home. And like, I 790 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: guess my thought process and Trump has changed this a 791 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: lot in the sense of, like, I think the first 792 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 1: the most important thing we can do as a country 793 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,439 Speaker 1: is just get our own house in order, right, because 794 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: it's like if you're on a street and your house 795 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: is falling apart and the grass hasn't been cut, and 796 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: your shutters are falling off, and like your paint looks 797 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: like crap, and like your house is just totally disheveled 798 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: and you know, a complete mess. You can't tell like 799 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: your neighbors and the other people in the neighborhood to 800 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: get it together and you know, to cut through up right. 801 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,760 Speaker 1: It's like we have to, you know, if we're going 802 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 1: to push things on other nations, like we have to 803 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: practice what we preach. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy. And I 804 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: just think, you know, there's a lot of examples throughout 805 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: our history when we aren't doing so, and so I 806 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,880 Speaker 1: think the best thing we can do for our country 807 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,799 Speaker 1: is like get strong, you know, defend our borders, you know, 808 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 1: clean up our own intelligence agencies, make sure that we 809 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: are practicing democracy. Well, I mean, we're constitutional republic, but 810 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, make sure that we are living out like 811 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,400 Speaker 1: what our constitution states, and you know, the kind of 812 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 1: country that our forefathers sought us to be, and you know, 813 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 1: and to like return to being that beacon of light 814 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: in the rest of the world. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy. 815 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 1: And you know, we're we're we're no longer America. 816 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,880 Speaker 2: That's really important. At the same time, you know, people 817 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,919 Speaker 2: throughout history, that's what the Bible is all about, right, 818 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 2: People screw up all the time. So you have to 819 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,359 Speaker 2: help each other to stop screwing up so that you 820 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 2: can perfect yourselves and help the next generation do an 821 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 2: even better job. So we have to recognize our own 822 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 2: faults and recognize that that that republican former government a 823 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 2: democratic process. They're messy and they're going to be abused, 824 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,279 Speaker 2: and it's just a question of how do you try 825 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 2: to perfect the situations you have and respective countries. I 826 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,840 Speaker 2: don't think it makes sense for the United States to 827 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 2: be this big democracy crusader everywhere in the world. But 828 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 2: I do think it's important for us to promote, you know, 829 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 2: promote what's right in places of importance to us and 830 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:21,919 Speaker 2: in places where our largest military adversaries, our most dangerous ones, 831 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 2: are the jihadists, or the Chinese communists, or Russia in 832 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 2: certain places where they are competing and say, destroying the 833 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 2: democratic system right right in our own hemisphere, like Venezuela, 834 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,400 Speaker 2: the way the Russians and the Chinese and the Cuban 835 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,399 Speaker 2: regime have done, and the problems that all that has 836 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 2: caused for us, it's our duty to intervene in those 837 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,799 Speaker 2: countries and help beef up, if not the democratic processes themselves, 838 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 2: at least the political forces that are important to us, 839 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 2: and to help them to destroy the political forces that 840 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,239 Speaker 2: are going to to make life very hard for us. 841 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 2: It's our national obligation to do that. And it's not 842 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,279 Speaker 2: an interventionist strategy. It doesn't it's not some neocon thing, 843 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 2: it's not some forever war thing because it doesn't involve 844 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 2: the deployment of American troops. 845 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: It's right because who are we to decide what's in 846 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: the interests of another nation? You know what I mean, 847 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of like where I you know, 848 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: it's like, who are we to decide? I guess we 849 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,360 Speaker 1: should I don't know. I think maybe we should just 850 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 1: be more honest about it and say we're doing what's 851 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,240 Speaker 1: in our interest, even if that's meddling in other countries 852 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,840 Speaker 1: or staging coups or doing whatever it is, Like the 853 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,440 Speaker 1: bottom line is because it's good for America. It's like, 854 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 1: I don't, like, who are we to tell other countries 855 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: who they should vote for, what their government should look like? 856 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: That doesn't always work out either, you know, we've seen 857 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: where nation building doesn't work out. So yeah, so it's like, 858 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: I guess, my, you know, who are we to tell 859 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 1: other countries? 860 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 2: How? 861 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,239 Speaker 1: And then also like if our government is meddling in 862 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: other elections and staging coups and overthrowing governments and whatnot, 863 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,360 Speaker 1: then how much of that have we been doing in house? 864 00:48:59,400 --> 00:48:59,919 Speaker 1: Like how much? 865 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 2: How? 866 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,760 Speaker 1: What have what has the CIA done you know, throughout 867 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: the course of history, you know, or throughout its course 868 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 1: in our history in our own elections es, you know, 869 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: particularly after what we saw with Donald Trump and the 870 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: spying on him and what you know, and a lot 871 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 1: of that was brought to light because he called them 872 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: out and he was the one that brought attention to it. 873 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,759 Speaker 1: So like, how much of this has been going on? 874 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:21,399 Speaker 2: Right? And then? 875 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 1: And then if that's the case, are we truly you know, 876 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: how democratic are we? You know how much of a 877 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: democracy are we if our own government is meddling in 878 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,400 Speaker 1: our own elections or you know. So it's like, I 879 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 1: don't know, it's like I. 880 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,240 Speaker 2: Just sink situation to be right. All your questions are 881 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,560 Speaker 2: really great questions, and we're always going to be debating them. 882 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,600 Speaker 2: But really, if we believe in American exceptionalism, which the 883 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 2: critical theory types and the DEI types do not believe 884 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,840 Speaker 2: in American exceptionalism, They view us as a force of evil. 885 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,440 Speaker 2: But if we believe in American exceptionalism, and we believe 886 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 2: in making America and keeping him on top of the 887 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 2: world with no pure rival, then it's our duty to 888 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 2: defend our interests however we have to. I don't think 889 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,360 Speaker 2: it's moral at all. I think it's grotesquely immoral to 890 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,319 Speaker 2: have such a decrepit state of our soft power and 891 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 2: our covert capabilities and to solve problems or try to 892 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 2: solve them by bombing people, including innocent people abroad, and 893 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 2: then sending our own people out to be killed just 894 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,279 Speaker 2: because our own leadership can't figure out how to work 895 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 2: in the gray area where we don't have to use 896 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,480 Speaker 2: military force. That's disgusting and it's immoral. And then that's 897 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,319 Speaker 2: how you get into these forever wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, 898 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,239 Speaker 2: where you don't have a lightning strikes against the bad 899 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 2: elements and then call it a day. We start sending 900 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,720 Speaker 2: in what contractors and USAID and multi billion dollar budgets 901 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 2: and the tens of billions of dollars a year to 902 00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 2: do nation building, and what do you need for nation 903 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,560 Speaker 2: But we need more troops to guard and protect the 904 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,799 Speaker 2: USAID programs. You need forces like Blackwater to be hired 905 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,080 Speaker 2: to go out. You're paying these guys, these security guys, 906 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 2: a quarter million dollars a year to be out in 907 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 2: the field providing security for USAID workers. Meanwhile, these USAID 908 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,560 Speaker 2: companies in the in the Washington Beltway are making fortunes 909 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,799 Speaker 2: and not providing value back to the taxpayer. So you 910 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,200 Speaker 2: have these forever wars that become very profitable. Now one 911 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,320 Speaker 2: can look at it from a very cynical way that 912 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,000 Speaker 2: these happen because people are greedy, or I just look 913 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,760 Speaker 2: at it in a more human way where our policy 914 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 2: makers are just shortsighted and foolish. 915 00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 1: I think it's probably both, you know, Like, for instance, 916 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,200 Speaker 1: there's like a Daily Signal article out recently about how 917 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,040 Speaker 1: USAID has worked with like the Soros Foundation and his 918 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: various groups, and you know, obviously he's a big Democrat, 919 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,399 Speaker 1: don't right, It's like, I don't know, I think it's 920 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 1: probably a combination of, you know, the two that I 921 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,400 Speaker 1: think that power corrupts. You know, you look at the 922 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,240 Speaker 1: Biden fan and how he's leveraged his positions of power 923 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 1: not only to get the prosecutor General fired who was 924 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,040 Speaker 1: investigating Breeze and the wholdings, but also just to enrich 925 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,400 Speaker 1: his entire family, you know, and then holding on classified 926 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 1: documents since like the nineteen seventies when he was in 927 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 1: the Senate, so he probably had to remove them from 928 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,359 Speaker 1: a skiff. So you know, what were those documents? Why 929 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,120 Speaker 1: did he have those? And like why were some of 930 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,320 Speaker 1: them being held at the pen Biden center that received 931 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,360 Speaker 1: Chinese money? Like what were they were they buying access? 932 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: What were they buying? Right? So like, I don't know, 933 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's I think it's probably like a combination of, 934 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, some of these people just being dunces, and 935 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 1: then also, you know, the power corrupts and everyone wants 936 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: to get rich and they don't care about doing it 937 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 1: off of our backs as long as they're getting rich, 938 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:42,120 Speaker 1: and so are their families. 939 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,040 Speaker 2: Sure, and there's no accountability. So there has never since 940 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 2: USAD was founded in nineteen sixty one, there's never been 941 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:55,120 Speaker 2: a serious congressional oversight investigation of USAID or how it 942 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,560 Speaker 2: was run. Yeah, there was a day long hearing here 943 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:03,040 Speaker 2: and there, but nothing serious. So USCID became a state 944 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,080 Speaker 2: within the state, spending the money the way it wanted to, 945 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 2: lying and misleading about how it was being spent, and 946 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 2: then becoming a political slush fund for domestic political and 947 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,319 Speaker 2: media activities here at home. That's completely illegal. You've had 948 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:21,560 Speaker 2: the CIA. There has never been a single serious congressional 949 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:27,560 Speaker 2: investigation of the CIA in forty nine years. Imagine that 950 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:31,800 Speaker 2: that's two career cycles for CIA professionals, not a single 951 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,560 Speaker 2: one since the Church Committee hearings of nineteen seventy six. 952 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:39,320 Speaker 2: So they've gone off and done so much that we 953 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 2: don't know and we might never know. And there was 954 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,439 Speaker 2: never an oversight hearing before nineteen seventy six. 955 00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,440 Speaker 1: Why has there not been one since the Church Committee? 956 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: And you know, why do you think that is? 957 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,040 Speaker 2: Well, I've talked to some senators about this and congressmen, 958 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,040 Speaker 2: and some of them honestly feel they don't have any 959 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 2: right to be asking these questions about the CIA. They 960 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,359 Speaker 2: don't have any right to know certain information. And well, 961 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:04,759 Speaker 2: they have. 962 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 3: Every right too, because they were away the public office 963 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,200 Speaker 3: to vote to appropriate our tax dollars and then approve 964 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,319 Speaker 3: the use of those tax dollars to fund these agencies. 965 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,919 Speaker 2: So they should be demanding this. But think of it. 966 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:24,759 Speaker 2: Politicians spend literally half their time fundraising for their next campaigns, 967 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,919 Speaker 2: so they don't have time, and they have to spend 968 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,200 Speaker 2: other time at home, and so they're really in Washington 969 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:36,319 Speaker 2: three days a week while they're in session. And then 970 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,319 Speaker 2: congressional salaries aren't that good. They can't compete with the 971 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,440 Speaker 2: private sector, so so many congressional staff aspire to become 972 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,560 Speaker 2: lobbyists and then double or triple their salary right away. 973 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,400 Speaker 2: So you don't have the real dedicated groups of people. 974 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 2: You do have some right now, but you don't have 975 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,359 Speaker 2: the number that you need. I mean, when you think 976 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,359 Speaker 2: of how Jim Jordan, Congressman Jim Jordan of the House 977 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,920 Speaker 2: Judiciary Committee chairman, came out and said he was going 978 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 2: to set up a Weaponization Subcommittee that was going to 979 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,439 Speaker 2: be just like the Church Committee of nineteen seventy six. 980 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,680 Speaker 2: He did set up the Weaponization Subcommittee, But whereas the 981 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,400 Speaker 2: Church Committee had one hundred and thirty odd lawyers and 982 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:20,920 Speaker 2: investigators and subject matter experts coming in and a cooperative 983 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:26,080 Speaker 2: CIA director who was bringing these secrets out to expose 984 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 2: what the CIA a wrongdoing, one hundred and thirty, the 985 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,120 Speaker 2: Weaponization sub Committee had five. 986 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:39,240 Speaker 1: Are they afraid? Because I remember Chuck Schumer said after 987 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,399 Speaker 1: President Trump was elected, I think it was like twenty 988 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,880 Speaker 1: sixteen or twenty seventeen, he said it. I want to 989 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,040 Speaker 1: say it was on MSNBC if I remember batting that out, Yes, 990 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,399 Speaker 1: And he said that what was it? Six ways from 991 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:54,600 Speaker 1: Sunday they. 992 00:55:54,480 --> 00:56:00,640 Speaker 2: Had, Yeah, they were both talking about Trump blaming the 993 00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:05,799 Speaker 2: CIA for the Russia accusations and so forth. And he 994 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:11,600 Speaker 2: said in a very intense way, he said, and he 995 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,440 Speaker 2: wasn't he wasn't really denouncing Trump for this. He was 996 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,640 Speaker 2: just saying it. As a matter of fact. He said, 997 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,839 Speaker 2: if you go after the intelligence community, they have six 998 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:27,200 Speaker 2: ways from Sunday of getting back at you. Now, think 999 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,840 Speaker 2: of what that means. Where you have the most powerful 1000 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,319 Speaker 2: man in the Senate at the time, who had been 1001 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:38,440 Speaker 2: in the Senate or been in Congress since nineteen eighty one. 1002 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,239 Speaker 2: So during his time in the House and his time 1003 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:47,960 Speaker 2: in the Senate for that forty four year period, he 1004 00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,560 Speaker 2: sat on a judiciary committee with oversight of the FBI 1005 00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,760 Speaker 2: that was part of the committee's responsibility, and he never 1006 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:59,919 Speaker 2: once sought to challenge the FBI in those forty four 1007 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:05,520 Speaker 2: years he has sat on those committees. He's afraid of them. 1008 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,160 Speaker 2: Others are afraid of them. And some lawmakers have told 1009 00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:12,600 Speaker 2: me off the record are not for attribution, that they're 1010 00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,839 Speaker 2: afraid to challenge the system because they don't know what 1011 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,600 Speaker 2: the intelligence services might have or not have on them, 1012 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,840 Speaker 2: and they don't want to They don't want to go there, 1013 00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,400 Speaker 2: and they remember how j Edgar Hoover blackmailed politicians and 1014 00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,240 Speaker 2: spied on politicians, and they're afraid. So when you have it, 1015 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,920 Speaker 2: where where our democratically elected leaders are afraid to challenge 1016 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,600 Speaker 2: the security apparatus of the country. Then we've lost our 1017 00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,800 Speaker 2: constitutional republic, and that's what you know. 1018 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:40,920 Speaker 1: I mean, look, I love America. I wouldn't want to 1019 00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,800 Speaker 1: be anywhere else. I think we're the best country in 1020 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,160 Speaker 1: the world. But I you know, I just I guess 1021 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,280 Speaker 1: I just believe in like realism, and you know, there 1022 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,520 Speaker 1: are many aspects of it that have become corrupted. A 1023 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,840 Speaker 1: large part of that is because it's too broad, it's 1024 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,080 Speaker 1: too centralized, which is what or for our founding fathers 1025 00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: were worried about. And then we've kind of become like 1026 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: the antithesis of what we were supposed to be as 1027 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,520 Speaker 1: a nation, like this decentralized government that was in the 1028 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 1: hands of the American people versus you know, those in power. 1029 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,400 Speaker 1: And then even our government has gotten so big where 1030 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,160 Speaker 1: even the people in power area of like the government 1031 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,080 Speaker 1: and what it's become, as you pointed out with Chuck Schumer, 1032 00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, and then it's like we want to preach 1033 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,720 Speaker 1: democracy abroad, but then we don't abide by those same 1034 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,000 Speaker 1: principles here, which so like, you know, I just there's 1035 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: just like we need to be truthful and then figure 1036 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:31,480 Speaker 1: out how we can fix it. As we've had in 1037 00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: this conversation, and then also just be honest that like 1038 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the things we do abroad, it's not 1039 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,880 Speaker 1: because it's moral or it's not because it's necessarily even 1040 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,760 Speaker 1: the right thing to do, because that could be subjective 1041 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,200 Speaker 1: depending on which country you are, even if you are 1042 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,000 Speaker 1: in the country where the meddling is involved. It's just like, 1043 00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,720 Speaker 1: we're just doing what's in America's interest. Because that's also 1044 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,680 Speaker 1: how you stay to be the biggest superpower in the world, 1045 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,040 Speaker 1: is because you're doing what's in your interest. You know. 1046 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,120 Speaker 1: It's like instead of putting it under the guise of 1047 00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,280 Speaker 1: being do gooders or whatever, it's just because no, we 1048 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,160 Speaker 1: want to be strong and mighty, and so like we 1049 00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,400 Speaker 1: might have to overthrow this government over there in order 1050 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,320 Speaker 1: to stay powerful or to you know, for whatever strategic interest. 1051 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,520 Speaker 2: If there's sort of a bipartisan consensus that we need 1052 00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:16,320 Speaker 2: to invade trouble making countries if they harm us, or 1053 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,920 Speaker 2: we need to squash their economies by sanctioning them. But 1054 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,960 Speaker 2: there's sort of this this weird idea that you can't 1055 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:28,120 Speaker 2: influence their political systems. It's not like other countries aren't 1056 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:32,000 Speaker 2: influencing our political systems, you know, look at you. Look 1057 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,960 Speaker 2: at Senator Menendez who's spending eleven years in prison now 1058 00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,320 Speaker 2: because he was on the take from all these foreign governments, 1059 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 2: and he was chairman of the Senate for Relations Committee, 1060 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,360 Speaker 2: or Hunter Biden in the pocket of the communist Chinese 1061 00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,040 Speaker 2: and the whole Biden family. So you can see what 1062 00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,440 Speaker 2: the Russians were doing with the Clintons. You know they 1063 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,520 Speaker 2: they when they when when Hillary Clinton, when she was 1064 00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,880 Speaker 2: Secretary of State, she was approving the sale of uranium Ie, 1065 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:03,760 Speaker 2: the uranium producing company, to let the Russian Ministry of 1066 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 2: Atomic Energy take a controlling stake in uranium one. This 1067 01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 2: is the Russian agency that manufactures nuclear warheads that are 1068 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:17,040 Speaker 2: aimed at us. She approved that sale and in exchange, 1069 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,320 Speaker 2: the Clinton family foundation got one hundred and forty five 1070 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:25,640 Speaker 2: million dollars in cash from uranium IE interests, and somehow 1071 01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 2: that was okay. So you have this criminalization of our 1072 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,760 Speaker 2: political system with foreign entities paying huge amounts of money. 1073 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:39,760 Speaker 2: Look what cutter that your hardest regime that was backing 1074 01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,080 Speaker 2: the terrorists who are killing our people, yet bought us 1075 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:48,400 Speaker 2: off by giving us, giving us use of their Aludade 1076 01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,000 Speaker 2: military base and a big CIA base. So the terrorists 1077 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,480 Speaker 2: won't hurt Cutter, the Iranians won't hurt Cutter, and the 1078 01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,600 Speaker 2: Americans won't hurt Cutter because we all have different opposing interests, 1079 01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,640 Speaker 2: so they've been able to buy that. Think of the 1080 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,479 Speaker 2: colossal amounts of money that that regime has poured into 1081 01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:08,000 Speaker 2: universities and law firms and lobbyists here and you just 1082 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,800 Speaker 2: sort of name the country and they've got some type 1083 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 2: of influence operation going on to influence how we think 1084 01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:15,840 Speaker 2: and sometimes how we vote. 1085 01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,760 Speaker 1: Well also to make you know, money through foreign interests 1086 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,160 Speaker 1: like you mentioned the Clinton Foundation, or the way the 1087 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,320 Speaker 1: Biden family has enriched themselves, or even with the Penn 1088 01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,920 Speaker 1: Biden Center. It's always like under the guise of you know, 1089 01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:34,360 Speaker 1: some sort of like diplomatic, you know, foreign relations type thing, you. 1090 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,760 Speaker 2: Can give any amount of money to a school or 1091 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,640 Speaker 2: a five oh one C three charity and not have 1092 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,400 Speaker 2: to register under the Foreign Agent's Registration Act because it's 1093 01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,920 Speaker 2: considered charity and education. That's the way the law was written. 1094 01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 1: Quick breaks, stay with us. Should we audit the money 1095 01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,720 Speaker 1: that we have sent to Ukraine? Because you know, obviously 1096 01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,080 Speaker 1: the Biden family had and have made a bunch of 1097 01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:06,080 Speaker 1: money off of leash barisma in Ukraine. You know, we've 1098 01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,320 Speaker 1: already seen reports about you know, not really knowing where 1099 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,080 Speaker 1: the money is exactly going. And you know Ukraine has 1100 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,200 Speaker 1: a history of corruption as well as a country and 1101 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 1: with its politicians, So like, should we do an audit 1102 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,000 Speaker 1: and you know what do you think we would find 1103 01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:22,800 Speaker 1: out about that? 1104 01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:27,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, for a few reasons. First, it's our money. We 1105 01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,400 Speaker 2: have to make sure that at least most of it 1106 01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,880 Speaker 2: is being used the right way, meaning the right way 1107 01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,480 Speaker 2: as our leadership intended for it to be. Whether or 1108 01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,600 Speaker 2: not we agree with the policy, the fact that our 1109 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,080 Speaker 2: leaders implemented the policy with our money, we have a 1110 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,640 Speaker 2: right to know. That's the first thing. The second thing 1111 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:51,160 Speaker 2: is those who want Ukraine to win. I want Ukraine 1112 01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,440 Speaker 2: to win. I support their just fights, but I just 1113 01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,560 Speaker 2: don't support it forever war where we're going to be 1114 01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,200 Speaker 2: just pouring money into it with no plan of any kind. 1115 01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,160 Speaker 2: If you want to fight, you have to make sure 1116 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,120 Speaker 2: that there's minimal fraud in corruption because you're going to lose. 1117 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,760 Speaker 2: So a great example of this is Senator Harry Truman 1118 01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:14,560 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty ran a committee in the Senate before 1119 01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,600 Speaker 2: we got into the war. But while we were supplying 1120 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:22,360 Speaker 2: our own naval vessels and shipbuilding capabilities and other weapons 1121 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:28,200 Speaker 2: capabilities to the British and to others. He was looking 1122 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,080 Speaker 2: to see where's the where's the fraud, where's the abuse, 1123 01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,120 Speaker 2: where's the corruption. So this was the Truman Committee and 1124 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,480 Speaker 2: it operated up until the time he became vice president 1125 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,400 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty five, when he was elected in forty 1126 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,120 Speaker 2: four under Roosevelt. And they came up with all kinds 1127 01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:50,280 Speaker 2: of corruption, to cheap quality steel, to a poor ship design, 1128 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,320 Speaker 2: to things that would have gotten our own sailors and 1129 01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:59,680 Speaker 2: airmen and soldiers killed. And plus it was just wasting 1130 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,200 Speaker 2: a lot of war money that could not be used 1131 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:08,400 Speaker 2: against Hitler and Mussolini and Tojo. So the Truman Committee 1132 01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,360 Speaker 2: literally helped us win World War two, and it even 1133 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,680 Speaker 2: shortened the war by several years based on the quality 1134 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,800 Speaker 2: control that that Senate Committee was having. There's been no 1135 01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,040 Speaker 2: call for a Truman Committee equivalent for Ukraine or for 1136 01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:22,240 Speaker 2: anything else for that matter. 1137 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:27,600 Speaker 1: I guess I just questioned their ability to win. And 1138 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:32,080 Speaker 1: so you know, it's like how much money do we 1139 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,160 Speaker 1: continue to spend and how many people continue to die 1140 01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,959 Speaker 1: if they end up back in you know, some sort 1141 01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,800 Speaker 1: of scenario where like Russia is probably getting in control 1142 01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:46,360 Speaker 1: like the Dawnbass region and obviously they already took Crimea 1143 01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,680 Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, Like it's so at 1144 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:52,280 Speaker 1: the end of it, do we lose all this loss 1145 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,680 Speaker 1: of life, give them hundreds of billions of dollars and 1146 01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:59,080 Speaker 1: like the plead o own you know, military or arsenal 1147 01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,600 Speaker 1: in the process to like end up where we really 1148 01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,600 Speaker 1: could have ended up basically at the beginning of oh 1149 01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 1: this and so it's like, you know, me, and if 1150 01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,440 Speaker 1: they're not going to win, you know, can we just 1151 01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,640 Speaker 1: reach that conclusion sooner? Where like you know, Russia obviously 1152 01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,720 Speaker 1: has to give you know, they're not going to get 1153 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,880 Speaker 1: everything they want, and Ukraine's not going to get everything 1154 01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,280 Speaker 1: they want. But that's basically the best we're going to get. 1155 01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,600 Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just going to be you know, how many 1156 01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,280 Speaker 1: years is this thing going to go on for? How 1157 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,960 Speaker 1: many people are going to die? And uh, you know 1158 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,560 Speaker 1: how much poor will we become as a country in 1159 01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:32,200 Speaker 1: the process. 1160 01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,560 Speaker 2: Sure, and those are the policy decisions on what do 1161 01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,040 Speaker 2: we do with things now? What kind of decisions should 1162 01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 2: be made, But the question we were just looking at 1163 01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,600 Speaker 2: is being done what we have since already. 1164 01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:48,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair. Well, I could honestly talk to you 1165 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,960 Speaker 1: forever because every time you say something, I'll just keep 1166 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:56,320 Speaker 1: asking a question. Very curious person. 1167 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,960 Speaker 2: I'm really joyed this and you got me thinking about 1168 01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,640 Speaker 2: questions that took me away off what I was so 1169 01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:07,200 Speaker 2: this was fun. Well, I had my. 1170 01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,720 Speaker 1: List of questions, and then we started talking about other things, 1171 01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,680 Speaker 1: and then that led to other questions. At some point 1172 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:15,440 Speaker 1: we just had to call this thing or I'm just 1173 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,800 Speaker 1: going to keep asking you questions and then we'll talk 1174 01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:19,680 Speaker 1: about if you crank and win and I'll just you 1175 01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:24,440 Speaker 1: know so, and I'm sure you have things to do. 1176 01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:28,560 Speaker 2: You know, if you think how much has foreign corruption 1177 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:33,640 Speaker 2: of our own political system gotten us into other people's 1178 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:38,360 Speaker 2: wars and conflicts, We've never looked at that before. 1179 01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:44,720 Speaker 1: That's a great point. I guess. I'm just glad that 1180 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,760 Speaker 1: the message that has been sent from the Trump administration 1181 01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,240 Speaker 1: that like nothing is off the table, right Like they 1182 01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,880 Speaker 1: will look at everything. They will look at every you know, 1183 01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:59,200 Speaker 1: line item part of the budget, Like every dollar we're 1184 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,400 Speaker 1: sending out a country is going to be examined. And 1185 01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:07,280 Speaker 1: nothing sacred. There's no sacred cows and everything will be 1186 01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,520 Speaker 1: audited and looked at, and I think that setting that 1187 01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:11,640 Speaker 1: will Obviously everyone's freaking out as a result of it, 1188 01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,360 Speaker 1: but that's a good response, So you know, I think 1189 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,400 Speaker 1: that's a positive and uh, you know, at the end 1190 01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:20,520 Speaker 1: of the next four years, I think Americans are going 1191 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:22,880 Speaker 1: to trust their government a lot more, will be in 1192 01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,480 Speaker 1: a lot healthier place, and hopefully, you know, we've at 1193 01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:30,120 Speaker 1: least taken you know, a sledgehammer a little bit to 1194 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:31,680 Speaker 1: government as much as we can. 1195 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,840 Speaker 2: Well, I hope Americans never trust the government too much. 1196 01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,600 Speaker 1: Well that's true. No, yeah, no, I've never really trusted really, 1197 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm a Santa Truther, So I was 1198 01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,360 Speaker 1: like in kindergarten, so I've always distrusted it. 1199 01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:51,280 Speaker 2: But good healthy upbringing. So if we just you know, 1200 01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,040 Speaker 2: part of part of good governance, if there is such 1201 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:59,280 Speaker 2: a thing, is making the bureaucrats fear the consequences of 1202 01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,440 Speaker 2: their action. But if they don't live in that state 1203 01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,480 Speaker 2: of fear, they're going to do whatever they want and 1204 01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:09,080 Speaker 2: then things will become as inept and corrupt as they do. 1205 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,840 Speaker 2: Think what any of us right, If there are no 1206 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,680 Speaker 2: rules and nobody's looking and there are no consequences, and 1207 01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,400 Speaker 2: we have an unlimited money supply, We're all going to 1208 01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,840 Speaker 2: do messed up things. That's just human nature. Imagine when 1209 01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,760 Speaker 2: they get together in packs, giant packs called bureaucracies, what 1210 01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,679 Speaker 2: they're going to do with that endless money supply and 1211 01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:33,400 Speaker 2: no oversight from the outside. So what President Trump is 1212 01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,759 Speaker 2: doing right now is really a great thing for the country, 1213 01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,040 Speaker 2: and it's going to put real fear into all bureaucrats. 1214 01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:41,879 Speaker 2: But it's also going to give a lot of courage 1215 01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,719 Speaker 2: for other people on the inside to speak out about 1216 01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,200 Speaker 2: the wrongdoing and then to start policing one another. 1217 01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,760 Speaker 1: I'm true why I appreciate your time. Thank you so 1218 01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,400 Speaker 1: much for being so generous with a very interesting conversation, 1219 01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:57,160 Speaker 1: and I learned a lot, So Mike wallerbly appreciate your time. 1220 01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,479 Speaker 1: Thank you for taking it with us. That was j 1221 01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,280 Speaker 1: Michael Waller. Appreciate him for taking the time. Appreciate you 1222 01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,160 Speaker 1: guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday now, 1223 01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:07,920 Speaker 1: but of course you can listen throughout the week. I 1224 01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,160 Speaker 1: also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting 1225 01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:11,719 Speaker 1: the show together. Until next time,