1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: The volume The Colin Cowherd Podcast brought to you by 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Fan Duel. It's never been easier to play fantasy on 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Fan Duel. Well, they love basketball, golf, soccer, or any 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: fantasy sport. There is a contest for every fan Fan 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: Duel more ways to win. Hi, everybody, and welcome in. 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: We're going to have a great guest and ten minute. 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: Steve Kime, general manager of the Arizona Cardinals, who fired 8 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: his coach and let go of his quarterback one year 9 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: after drafting and hiring. Both made a quick pivot and 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: he's turned the Arizona Cardinals around. I love guys like that, 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: you know. I got about ten minutes here on John Gruden. 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: So I worked briefly with John Gruden at ESPN. He 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of Bobby Knight, who also worked 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: at ESPN. So let me tell you a story about 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: Bobby Knight in Gruden who as they lost their power, 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: increasingly lashed out at others. So Bobby Knight worked at 17 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: ESPN for years, was legendarily difficult. He would only work 18 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: and surround himself with people who kissed the ring because 19 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: he could retain his power that way. You had to 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: revere him, treat him with a certain level of respect. 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: Bobby would only work with people who bowed down to 22 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: Bobby to make him feel powerful. And as Bobby Knight 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: started losing power and losing games and losing esteem later 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: in his career, he was a really insecure guy who 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: could no longer bully people. People didn't take him seriously. 26 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: People mocked him, and he wasn't a winning basketball coach 27 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: at the end. And it's very difficult when you've had 28 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: power and you start to lose it, and sometimes men 29 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: or people get desperate trying to retain it. So Bobby 30 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: Knight one time they scheduled him for my radio show 31 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: The Herd at ESPN Radio, and I said fine. They 32 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: said there's certain questions you can't ask him, and I said, no, 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: I'll ask him whatever I want to ask him. Bobby's 34 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: not going to control the interview. The show's called The Herd, 35 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: not the guest. I'll control the interview. Bobby wouldn't do it, 36 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: so he went on Mike and Mike, a show that 37 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: was more than willing or certainly more willing to allow 38 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: Bobby certain liberties. I wouldn't do it with Gruden. I 39 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: had him on one or two times. But there were 40 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: similarities with Gruden. When I go back and look at 41 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: Gruden's career, like Bobby is that Gruden only worked with 42 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 1: a finite number of people at ESPN, A certain executive 43 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: who would kiss the ring, a handful of producers or 44 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: co workers who would kiss the ring, and so like 45 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: Bobby Knight, as Gruden became a losing football coach in 46 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: the NFL and move further and further away from the 47 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: Super Bowl, he started lashing out as people who didn't 48 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: adore him or he viewed as a threat. I'll give 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: you an example, so in the emails, he's ripping Roger Goodell. Well, 50 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: Gruden was at his height in Oakland from ninety eight 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: to two thousand and one, he was boy Genius, and 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: then in Tampa from two thousand and two to about 53 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and four and five at the end, remember 54 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: he stayed until two thousand and eight, but he was 55 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: losing at the end. So when Roger Goodell became commissioner 56 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, Boy Wonder was Boy Blunder, 57 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: and Goodell didn't take kindly to old school losing coach 58 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: Gruden on TV, often ridiculing him behind his back. John 59 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: had a history was pretty well known this I can 60 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: verify kind of bad mouthing people who he saw his 61 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: threats are in the way behind their back. He did 62 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: that at ESPN. And then you go to Demorris Smith 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: who is negotiating two thousand and eleven, and John Gruden 64 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: is now you know, he's lost games, he's been fired. 65 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: He's just a TV guy. And Demorris Smith educated Virginia Law, 66 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: worked under Eric Holder, Attorney General. John's is a threat 67 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: because Demorris Smith wanted a less violent game to protect 68 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: the players. And again, you're usurping power from John Gruden. 69 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: This is where Bobby Knight and John Gruden are very similar. 70 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: They're powerful, they're adored and beloved. As they start losing 71 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: and lose that power, they lash out to people who 72 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: are a threat and people that are not going to 73 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: allow the NFL to run the way John sees it 74 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: fit are a threat and this is why Gruden struggles 75 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: to adapt. And it kind of fascinates me. What I 76 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: saw with those emails is a terribly insecure guy. And 77 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: if you go look at the timeline of when a 78 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: lot of these angry emails surfaced and who they're directed at. 79 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: They are directed at people that are not willing to 80 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: give John a pass, don't believe in his narrative, aren't 81 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: going to elevate his power base. The NFL's gotten, by 82 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: the way, much more analytical. John's much more raw, raw. 83 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: There's a way to play the game. The world is 84 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: requiring John and guys like Bobby Knight to be more tolerant, 85 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: to be more thoughtful. If you look at Gruden's career 86 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: and you look at Bobby Knight's career, it's largely the same. 87 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: They're big maybe in the eighties, right, it's the nineties 88 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: and the world changes and they start losing and people 89 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: don't open doors for him, and people don't shudder in fear, 90 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: and they lash out at those people. So you know 91 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: John's approach to football, and let's be honest, he was 92 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: losing at the end in Tampa, and he was losing 93 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: in Oakland slash Vegas. John's style is outdated. When you 94 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: think of great offensive minds, Sean McVeigh, Sean Peyton, Gruden's 95 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: not considered in that class and he doesn't like it. 96 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: And I've always been sort of fascinated. You know, I 97 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: should have a psychologist on people in power lose it 98 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: and how do they react, And to me, Gruden and 99 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: Bobby Knight a lot of similar tendencies bullies, and once 100 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: they lose power, the only way to retain it is 101 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: harshly criticize those who challenge it. And just look at 102 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: who Gruden took shots at. In fact, in a weird 103 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: set of circumstances, total coincidence, I dated a woman years 104 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: and years ago, twenty five years ago. Her current husband 105 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: worked for the Raiders briefly, and I was talking to 106 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: her about three years ago. She had text and we 107 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: were just going back and forth. A really good person, 108 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: and I said, Hey, how's your husband doing with a Raider? 109 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: She said, oh, a year after Gruden took the job. 110 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: He got out of there. It was so toxic, it 111 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: was so alpha, so ridiculous. And her husband's, you know, 112 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: a little more analytical, little smarter person. And that was 113 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: my first glimpse that it was kind of going sideways 114 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: in Las Vegas slash Oakland, but almost always ends poorly 115 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: for people that can adapt. The NFL's ability to evolve 116 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: is actually one of its greatest qualities. There's a certain 117 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: group of men who hate change. Years ago when they 118 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: made the penalties for overly violent plays more punitive. A 119 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: lot of people push back and the NFL would not listen. 120 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: The NFL has been able to, over the course of 121 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: thirty years, increase its fan base to one hundred and 122 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: eighty seven million Americans according to research, and forty three 123 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: percent of those are women. The game is safer, more 124 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: forward thinking, more inclusive, more analytical ratings are revenue is up. 125 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: The game has frankly evolved past John Gruden, and now 126 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: he is literally out of the league. And I think 127 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: all of us acknowledge today. Look at Gruden's record last 128 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: three years Tampa, first three years and five games in 129 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: Oakland and Vegas. He hasn't adapted. It's pretty obvious. So 130 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: how's he retained his power. I've said this recently on 131 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: the show that I've always appreciated men, specifically because I 132 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: think women can do this more easily. Is admit they're wrong. 133 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 1: And Steve Kim has been the jam for seven years, 134 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: eight years now in Arizona. He's been a scout of 135 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: personnel since ninety nine, and scouts take great pride in 136 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: getting it right. But Steve did something that's you just 137 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: do not see in the NFL. I can't recall anything 138 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: like it. He hired a coach and drafted a quarterback 139 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: and a year later said all right, that shit ain't working. 140 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to go in a different direction, and Steve 141 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: joins us. First of all, it's incredibly rare. It is 142 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: a quality I admire and few have. So you had 143 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: to make a decision and say, hey, this isn't working. 144 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: Do you remember, let's talk first about the coaching situation. 145 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: Really good guy, but it didn't work, and you go 146 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: get Cliff Kingsbury. Was there a moment on the coaching 147 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: situation before we get to Kyler, a drive home, a practice, 148 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: a game, when you said, this young coach I hired, 149 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: I just don't think it's going to work. That's a 150 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: great question, and I don't know that it was one 151 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: specific point, Colin. I think it was just through the 152 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: experience of the time that we had spent together, and 153 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: you know, in consultation with Michael bid war Owner, he 154 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: and I had to take a long, hard look at 155 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: and probably what was the most difficult part was taking 156 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: a hard look at the job that I've done and 157 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: the first five years of my career as an NFLGM 158 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: we won over fifty games. We had a lot of 159 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: success with Bruce Arians and Carson Palmer, and quite frankly, 160 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: we stunk it up. And that is really difficult pill 161 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: to swallow. And the only way you can grow as 162 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: a person or as a leader is to self evaluate, 163 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: and it's humbling, and that's what I had to do. 164 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: We had to get our draft picks right, and we 165 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: had to make a change at the top with our coach, 166 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: and I feel like we got it right. But it 167 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: was a huge risk to take. And then you bring 168 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: in Cliff Kingsbury, Did it concern you because he's gotten 169 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: better every year. In fact, my criticism in years one 170 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: and two was the team was a little inconsistent half 171 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: to half, and I thought, well, that could be Kyler Murray. 172 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: He's a kid kid quarterback. But I find the team 173 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: not just winning. It's not just winning, but the team 174 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: is more consistent in terms of penalties, in terms of protection. 175 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: The organization feels more consistent this year early on first year, 176 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: maybe first twenty games. Did you have discussions with him, 177 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: Cliff half to half, series to series, game to game, 178 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: I mean, take me through the evolution of his growth. Yeah, 179 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: and I think that's another great observation because again, you 180 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: know Cliff coming into the business and learning the NFL game, 181 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: no doubt that he's a humble guy and can look 182 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: in the mirror and say, hey, I got improve in 183 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: these certain areas. But I think even a larger picture, 184 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: Colin is when you look at the way your team's 185 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: build up, the makeup of your team, And I felt 186 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: like this offseason, the one thing that we had to 187 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: address his emotional maturity. Yes, and when I say emotional maturity, 188 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: I mean people who can handle success, people who can 189 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: handle adversity, because both are going to hit you at 190 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: different times, whether it's games, weeks, months, and that is 191 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: the area that I feel like we've grown the most 192 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: because we've added veterans, We've added draft picks, guys who 193 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: are emotionally mature, who can handle the tough times, who 194 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: can handle adversity. And that's really I think where as 195 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: a whole, this organization has grown because of the type 196 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: of people we brought in. So now let's pivot to 197 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: Kyler Murray. He was obviously exhilarating early, but you had 198 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: to make a decision with your scouting background since ninety 199 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: nine in Arizona. Obviously he jumps off the tape a 200 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: better athlete than Josh Rosen, But you had to bail 201 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: on Josh. Was there a conversation or a moment or 202 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: a piece of tape where you just went, I can't 203 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: pass up on this. This is somebody. I'm going to 204 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: regret this if I don't make a move on Kyler Murray. Yes, 205 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: and it was. I'll never forget. I was sitting in 206 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: my office and I was watching him for the first time, 207 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: and the first game I started with was Alabama. And 208 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: if you went back and you watched the Oklahoma Alabama game, 209 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: you saw he actually struggled in the first half. They 210 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: got after him, they rushed him, they didn't protect very well, 211 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: had to use his wheels a lot, and struggled. Second 212 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: half completely lit him up. And there was one play 213 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: in particular where it was almost like a short stop 214 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: making a great throw to the first base after getting 215 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: a ground ball. I'll never forget he jumped up off 216 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: of one foot and launched the ball about fifty five 217 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: yards with a strike in the end zone as for 218 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: a touchdown. And maybe in my NFL was a scout 219 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: at that time. Twenty two years. I had never seen 220 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: anything like it, you know, I never saw a guy 221 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: that could run full speed and launch the ball off 222 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: one foot and throw with that kind of zip and 223 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: juice and ball placement. I saw Pat Mahomes do some 224 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: pretty rare and unusual things, but the way Kyler Murray 225 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: did it, even though he was five ft ten, to 226 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: me just was special. And I think it's exactly what 227 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: you said, even regardless with Josh Rosen. I mean, I 228 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: think the guy had potential. We took him with the 229 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: tenth pick overall, and kind of like when you sit 230 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: and you think to yourself, really the big picture, if 231 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: you were drafting an the NBA and you had Clyde Drexler, 232 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: but you had a chance of draft Michael Jordan, would 233 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: you do it? Yes? I mean that player Kyler Murray, 234 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: to me, I thought was a generational talent, and I 235 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: thought it was the kind of guy that could propel 236 00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: this organization in the right direction. The fastest Steve Elway 237 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: had a baseball background. Mahomes, Baker Mayfield, Russell Wilson, and 238 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: Kyler Murray. Um. You know, Urban Meyer in college said 239 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: he loved defensive lineman who had played basketball or track 240 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: multi sport guys, athletes, not just big weightlifter football guys. 241 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: The baseball thing. I always say that Russell and Kyler 242 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: slide like baseball players. Lamar doesn't, Aaron Rodgers doesn't. They 243 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: slide like football players. Um, do you did that? Was 244 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: that any part of it? Did you look at Russell, 245 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: who's a pretty good comp for him, and go, man, 246 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: there's just some things here. Because my takeaway was, Man, 247 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: Kyler small, I don't know if this is gonna work. 248 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: Was the Russell Wilson comper real thing for you? Yeah? 249 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: And I think the Russell comp gave you the confidence 250 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: that this guy could do at this level, because that's 251 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: what we do in this business. It's all comps. So 252 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: the fact that there was never you know, for Russell, 253 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: it's it's and I'll never forget John Schneider saying this. 254 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: You know, John said, what's wrong with him? Other than 255 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: he's five ten. He's got big hands, he's got great feet, 256 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: he can escape, he can throw on the move, he 257 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: can throw it from the pocket. He is great accuracy 258 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: in touch, and he has good vision. Again, all the 259 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: things you want in a great quarterback. Other than the 260 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: fact he's five ten, he had compensating abilities. And that's 261 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: the same thing with Kyler, the fact that he's not 262 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: six foot four, six foot five, he has compensating traits 263 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: that you get excited about. The feet, the explosiveness, the 264 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: arm strength, and their ability to get the ball out 265 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: of their hands quickly. With that baseball analogy, you know, 266 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: you see those guys, it's almost like turn into double 267 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: play when they sometimes they'll catch the snap and they're 268 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: so quick with their release and their footwork. It's like 269 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: a shortstopper or a second baseman turning two. You know, 270 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: when you see that guy flip his hips and get 271 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: the ball out when they throw those screens, it's amazing 272 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: and not many guys can do that. Are you ready 273 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: to amp up the excitement? Every college football Saturday this year? 274 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: All right? It's called Colin Cowherd's Saturday Spreads. It's on FanDuel, 275 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: free shot at big prizes. Really simple. I choose ten 276 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: of college football's biggest matchups each week, make your picks 277 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: against the spread for each one, and the fans who 278 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: get the most right win five thousand bucks in prizes 279 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: every damn week. All right, My picks this week Texas 280 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: minus five hosting Oklahoma State. The Cowboys defense is pretty 281 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: good this year, but I think Texas comes out of 282 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: that loss feeling really good about who they are. They 283 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: controlled large portions of that game late against Oklahoma. I'll 284 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: take the long Horns to win and cover. I like 285 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: Carolina at home minus six and a half over Miami Carolina, 286 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: the slightly better football team with better momentum. And I'll 287 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: take Alabama to bounce back even on the road after 288 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: their loss to the Aggies beat Mississippi State by over 289 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: seventeen and a half. All right, those will be three 290 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: of the ten picks. Go to FanDuel dot com slash 291 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: Saturday Spread FanDuel dot com slash Saturday Spreads, or you 292 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: can just download the FanDuel app. Check in five thousand 293 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: bucks every weekend prizes. No purchase necessary. Age restrictions apply 294 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: depending on location. Voidwear prohibited. See fandel dot com for 295 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: terms and conditions. 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You played, and I believe Jimmy Johnson took 311 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: over for the Dolphins and you were playing back then, right, Yeah, 312 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: And so obviously very few players, some become scouts, almost 313 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: none become gms. And you know, everybody's got strengths and weaknesses. 314 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: Belichick's obviously the great academic, the situational brilliance has sort 315 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: of struggled with skill people fitting into his system. Jimmy, 316 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: when you if I said Jimmy Johnson to you, Steve Kime, 317 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: what jumped out to you? Take people back that don't 318 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: know Jimmy. I do you do college and pro What 319 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: did you learn from Jimmy? What did you see in Jimmy? 320 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: You've probably reached out that Jimmy more than once in 321 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: your life. Go back to Jimmy and how he helped 322 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: it all, maybe even not verbally, just things you noticed 323 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: and the way he ran things in Miami. Well, I'll 324 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: say this, and it was just a short period of 325 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: time because it was about six months and I got hurt. 326 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: But he you know, I think I think the way 327 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: Jimmy was and the way the Dolphins were at that time. 328 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: It was his first year, so to be able to 329 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: change the culture the way he did, you know, and 330 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: way did in Dallas. The way he ran an NFL 331 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: program a little more like a college program, you know, 332 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: with the way they run players, whether you're a veteran 333 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: or a young guy, you worked hard regardless, you know, 334 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 1: you didn't have days off and those sort of things. Um, 335 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: Jimmy made the guys work, and I'll never forget. You know, 336 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: Dan Marino, I'm sure he was used to a certain 337 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: style with Don Shula when Jimmy came in and became 338 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: different and Dan had to work, you know, like everybody else. 339 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: But the funny, funny thing is is I saw Jimmy 340 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: when we played in the NFC Championship. I believe it 341 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: was two thousand and fifteen, and Jay Glazer and how 342 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: he Long were making fun of me because Jimmy said 343 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: hello to me and he didn't remember cutting me, and 344 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: I said, man, I was such a memorable player that 345 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: you didn't remember cutting me. But I also told me 346 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: that the great advice that he gave me was it 347 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: was I realized as a GM. And I never want 348 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: to sign guys like Steve Kine, those short, stubby armed, 349 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, overachievers, We don't want them. I'll throw this 350 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: kind of theory at you. So it's been pretty bumpy 351 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: for Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer was a wildly successful college coach. 352 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: It hasn't been terribly bumpy for Cliff Kingsbury. And I'll 353 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: just throw this at Cliff. Comes to you in a 354 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: more humble place. He wasn't as rich, he wasn't as powerful, 355 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: and that my guess, it's much harder for Urban to 356 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: be a great listener because he's mostly been directing traffic. 357 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: When Cliff comes to you having been fired from his 358 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: alma mater, many people, myself included, said, wow, this is 359 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: a gamble. So he psychologically has got to be more willing. 360 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: He needs help, He needs Steve, he needs his scouts. 361 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: Take me through what Cliff has been like, because you 362 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: know now that Kyler has exploded. He wants to talk 363 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: about the coach, but so much of this league is 364 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: getting a coach that works with his young player. Take 365 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: me through kind of Cliff, what you've seen, how he's 366 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: grown as a coach. Yeah, and I think that's a 367 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: great point. Is Number one, you have to identify what 368 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: are your strengths and your weaknesses. And I'm not saying 369 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 1: that Cliff has weaknesses, but there are things that he 370 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: knows that he's good at, and that's calling plays and 371 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: that's being a head coach of a football team. Not 372 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: so much saying I want to micromanage and run personnel. 373 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: I want to run all of our decisions in the draft, 374 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: the free agency process. The two GM and the head 375 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: coach have to share a vision and you have to 376 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: be on the same page, and you have to have 377 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: that mutual respect and Cliff is humble enough to be 378 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: able to say, I don't need to be the GM, 379 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: I don't need to make the picks. I'll stay in 380 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,479 Speaker 1: my lane. And when everybody stays in their lane, to me, 381 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: it's when you have organizational success. It's when those lines 382 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: get blurred. To me is when people have issues. When 383 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: coach wants to be the GM or vice versa. We 384 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: all have to have that mutual respect and understanding, and 385 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: I have to have the vision on what the coach 386 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: has won. My job is a GM to me is 387 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: not to say, hey, these are my picks. No, I 388 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: want to do the job where I am supplying the 389 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: coaches with the necessary tools that they have to have 390 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: to have success. You know, it's interesting years ago I 391 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: covered the Portland Trailblazers and the general manager was Bob Whitsit, 392 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, be careful calm about labeling players. 393 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: He goes, you know, some of these guys coming out now, 394 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: they can play point, they can play the four Lebron's 395 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: of course the greatest example. And a couple of years 396 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: ago you took a draft pick out of Clemson. He 397 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: was a playmaker, much a little bit like Honey badger, 398 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: but I think a stronger player Simmons and Isaiah Simmons, 399 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: and my takeaway was it's going to take them a 400 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: while to figure out what he is, but he is something. 401 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: And you take me back to that, pick your thought process, 402 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: how it's developed, and perhaps maybe that's not a guy 403 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: that eight years ago that works, but in today's NFL 404 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: it kind of works. Take me there with him. It's 405 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: about matt finding their ability to create mismatches, whether it's 406 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: in the passing game, whether it's running the football. And 407 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: to me, the more players that you can find that 408 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: are hybrids or so to speak, versatile. I've always felt 409 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: like you have different late layers of defense. You have 410 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: the defense in front, the middle section which is your backers, 411 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: and then the back end. And the more players to 412 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: me that have versatility on all levels. I like guys 413 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: that can play inside or outside up front. Love to 414 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,239 Speaker 1: be able to have guys at the second level. They 415 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: all have to be able to cover. The day and 416 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: age of the two down mic linebacker doesn't exist anymore 417 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: because people are too smart and they can find though 418 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: they'll spread out and you become an un Mike loving backer. 419 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: You become a will and same thing with the secondary, 420 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: to have safeties that can cover the can invert and 421 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: play in the slot, and can play over receivers. The 422 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: real hard part nowadays you're coming to see is I 423 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: think there's a big discrepancy and the talent at wide 424 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: receiver versus the amount of secondary players are that are talented. 425 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: When you start getting third and fourth receivers like we 426 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: have matched up on third and fourth corners, it is 427 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: a major messmatch. Yes, that's why you're seeing so many 428 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: explosive plays in my opinion, and you're seeing so much yardage, 429 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: particularly yardage in the middle of field, when you're seeing 430 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: inside guys and corners that are Nichols predominantly facing guys 431 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: like Christian Kirk and Rondale Moore. Well that I saw 432 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: the other day. Carolina went and got CJ. Henderson, They 433 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: drafted J. C. Horne, then they went out and got 434 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: they traded for another corner, And my takeaway was, yeah, 435 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: because they're in the division with Brady Yea and Brady's 436 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: not going anywhere, and you've got to have a legit 437 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: third corner. You know, this brings up something Steve I 438 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: noticed this years ago, So I like recruiting. I've been 439 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: following high school recruiting him at Dork forever, and I 440 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 1: noticed this about eight years ago. In California, there were 441 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: no running backs left. The whole damn state had two 442 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: and there'd be sixty four and five star receivers. And 443 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: young people generally set cultures, fashion, music, sports, Well, young 444 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: people know running backs don't get a second contract. I 445 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: won't be quarterback. Was a wide receiver. State of California's 446 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: got two good running backs a year. So to your point, 447 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: you're taking these Drake London the USC right now as 448 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: a prime example. That guy's like, hey man, I'm gonna 449 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: play basketball and make money or I'm going wide out, 450 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: And it's really fascinating. And I think about this, Steve 451 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: all the time. Is that does it change the way 452 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: you think? Like, for instance, it's very difficult in the 453 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: NFL now, Steve, if you have a good quarterback like Kyler, 454 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna have a good offense for a decade as 455 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: long as you can protect him reasonably. Defenses don't last. 456 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: Rams are number one. Oh they're not. You look at 457 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: there's teams in this league. It is almost impossible, even 458 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: two to three years straight to have a dominating defense, 459 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: because if you do have a good corner, if you're 460 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: paying your quarterback, people will overpay for a good corner. 461 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: Do you find it harder now? I think it's a reality. 462 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: It is hard to retain a great defense. Are you 463 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: do you sense this? Do you feel this? Yeah? I do? 464 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: I do. And I used to think at one time 465 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: the hardest positions to find were quarterback, left tackle, pass rusher, 466 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: left tackle, pass rusher. You could go back and forth 467 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: in my opinion, but now it's to me, corner is 468 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: one of the hardest supplying. Demand is so tough at 469 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: that position, and every team in the NFL that that 470 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: we're you know, we're playing against that, everybody's looking for him, 471 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: you know, we're all looking and the ready list when 472 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: you look at that, the guys that you have to 473 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: sign to try to fill in for injuries and those 474 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: sort of things. It's become really really difficult for us. 475 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: And the funny thing is is a lot of people 476 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: that worried about our team, particularly locally here, they worried 477 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: about our corner play. And I'm thinking to myself, we 478 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: got in week three, four five, and now I'm looking 479 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: at the teams that we're playing, and their corners are 480 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: the same as as all of them around the league. 481 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: Everybody's struggling at corner. And unless you're Jalen Ramsey, I mean, 482 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: everybody's got some real issues. Yeah, Denver Patrick's Artan has 483 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: been a hit for them. Yeah, he's been a nice 484 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: hit in Kyle Fuller, But you know, they struggle. They 485 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: can't score points when you you're clearly a guy you know, 486 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: pivoting for you. It's not difficult. And I always had 487 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: this theory. People have asked me over my career, oh gosh, 488 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: you've been on the air for thirty years, how have 489 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: you lasted? And I always say, fear, I have to 490 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: pivot her. I'm out of work. I gotta find whatever 491 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: platforms growing. I'm loyal to platforms right for you. You 492 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: have a great job. There's no school to go to 493 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: to be a GM. No. Sometimes you lose a GM job, 494 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: you never get another one. Right, I found early in 495 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: my career. I think I'm more joyful now, but early 496 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: in my career there was this kind of fear, like, man, 497 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: they're after me. In your day to day life where 498 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: you're criticized for a draft pick, is it stressful? Do 499 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: you do you sense the stress of it? How do 500 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: you kind of compartmentalize that have a joyful life as 501 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: you deal with every draft pick, every Sunday, wildly scrutinized 502 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: job on the line. Yeah, I mean that's why I 503 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: don't sleep at night. I mean it's truly now, don't 504 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: get me wrong. And the thing that's funny that you 505 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: say fear, I mean, I'm not kidding you. Whether I've 506 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: won Executive of the Year and I still wake up 507 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: in the morning thinking I'm gonna get fired. And I 508 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: think it's probably the roots and where I came from. 509 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: My dad worked for the same company for forty two 510 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: years as a machinist, you know, humbling beginnings and that 511 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And it's just the way I'm wired. 512 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: It's the way I was wired as a player. And 513 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: that part is maybe the mental game that I play 514 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 1: with myself that gives me the edge because I always 515 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: think that I have to prove somebody wrong. But yeah, 516 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's difficult. Particularly and I said this 517 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: about a week ago. If you want to want to 518 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: populatory pop pularity contest, don't become an NFL general manager. 519 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: Because whether it's the players, the coaches, somebody. You're going 520 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: to make people unhappy, and you can't do things to 521 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: make people like you. You have to make really tough decisions, 522 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: which are unfortunate guys that contracts are expiring or trading players. 523 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: At some point in time, people feel like they're going 524 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: to be misled. They're going to feel like you did 525 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: them wrong, and you have to have tunnel vision, block 526 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: out the noise and feel like you're always doing what's 527 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: right for the organization long term health and short term health. 528 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: I feel there's more stability with Arizona ten years ago. 529 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily think that, but it seems like you 530 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: have a good relationship with the younger bidwell soon. I've 531 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: only met him once, but take me to your relationship 532 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: with your owner. Yeah, he's great, and I think the 533 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: one thing that's that's great about him, maybe more than anything, 534 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: is is he is He's in here every day, So 535 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: he's not out on a yacht. He's not out, you know, 536 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: just having fun. He's in here working with like all 537 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: of us are. So his blue collar mentality, roll up 538 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: your sleeves. He's not a flashy guy, and he loves 539 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: the game and most of all. He loves this organization. 540 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: So the two coolest things are Number One, I started 541 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: at the lowest level and worked my way to the top, 542 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: which I think it's myself and Brian Goodkins are the 543 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: only gms in the NFL that worked as area scouts 544 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: with their respective teams and worked to become gms. And 545 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: same thing with Michael. Michael was a ballboy at one time. 546 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: You know. He makes jokes about picking up jock straps 547 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: in the locker room, you know. And now he's the 548 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: president and owner of the team. And again he's committed 549 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: to doing the right things and he's passionate about the 550 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals for the right reasons. Steve, you're an arguably 551 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: the toughest division in sports. When you draft, how much 552 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: do you think about other teams or is it mostly 553 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: self identification? Here's what we are, here's what we're not. 554 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: I remember years ago Pollion Bill Polian said, when we 555 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: got Peyton Manning, we knew we'd have the lead a lot. 556 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: So who we drafted pass rushers? We knew you'd be 557 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: chasing us in the fourth quarter. Kyler Murray presents a 558 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: little bit of that. You're going to score a lot 559 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: of points. Do you think going forward it will affect 560 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: how your vision and how you draft. Yeah, and it's 561 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: already taken place. I mean we've already started to sort 562 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: of formulate our plan around Kyler, drafting Kyler, acquiring Rodney 563 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: Huts in this offseason. I wanted the strong strength in 564 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: the middle where you have a guy who an older 565 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: veteran who's done it, been there, done it and can 566 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: help identify defenses and help Kyler from a mental standpoint 567 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: early on in the process. And then now all of 568 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: a sudden, you look at the perimeter talent we have 569 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: to go along with Kyler and then getting the lead, 570 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: and then also having guys who can rush the passer, 571 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: guys like Chandler Jones JJ. You mentioned Isaiah Simmons. I mean, 572 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 1: you don't want to get into a situation where you're 573 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: turning down good football players, But there is something to 574 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: be said about how you build your roster and then 575 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: how are you going to play your opponents, which again 576 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: you know when you're gonna get Russell every year, and 577 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stability around the league with some 578 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: of those guys and now Matthew Stafford. There's a certain 579 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: way you have to play those teams. You know, when 580 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: you made that deal for Chandler Jones, you know, Belichick 581 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: is this iconic guy. He'd burned a lot of people, 582 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: He'd made a lot of good trades. Where's their apprehension, 583 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: like looking behind closed doors? Okay, I'm going up against 584 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: the wizard because he's been a huge hit for you. 585 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: You have won that trade. That is not disputable, and 586 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: for a couple of years they couldn't generate the kind 587 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: of pass rush right. That was one of the few 588 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: where you look back a couple of years later and go, wow, 589 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: New England misses that player and Arizona stole that player. 590 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: Do you remember when you where you were when you 591 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: made that deal and what was going through your mind? 592 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: I do, because I remember calling him and asking him 593 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: if you know again, Sometimes you just have to spitball 594 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: because you think to yourself when you're watching the tape, 595 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: there's no chance they're going to trade this guy because 596 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: of how much you liked the player, the talent, the 597 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: position that he plays, how hard they are to find. 598 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: So hey, why not throw it out there? I mean 599 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: all they can say is no, right, So say, hey, Bill, 600 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: would you consider moving on from Chandler Jones, and I'll 601 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: never forget, you know, with Bill's reaction, maybe you know, 602 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: I think about it and I'm thinking to myself, Wow, really, 603 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: you know, no different than DeAndre Hopkins or at the time, 604 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: Carson Palmer when I talked to the Raiders. You know, 605 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: I liked what I saw in Carson even though they 606 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: weren't winning a lot of games. He threw for over 607 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: four thousand yards that year. Yea, and thought put him 608 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: in Bruce Arian's offense, vertical stretching the field. Yeah, it's 609 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: good fit. And sure enough it was. So when you're 610 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: making those trades again with guys like him and d 611 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: hop and Chandler, you know, guys that you think are 612 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: really good football players, you always wonder what do they 613 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: know that we don't. That's that's why I always talk 614 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: about free agency the way I do in general. I 615 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: truly view it as fools gold because number one, why 616 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: are they on the market. Two, we don't have intimate 617 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: knowledge of that player unless we have a coach that 618 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: coached him at that team. So why is that team 619 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: ready and willing to move on from him? And we're 620 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: putting this type of contract in front of him with 621 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: this type of guaranteed money. It's scary that DeAndre Hopkins 622 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: that that day you signed him, did you drive home thinking, 623 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: holy shit, we got a guy. It was terrifying because 624 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: we agreed to the deal Bill O'Brien and myself, and 625 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: the pandemic hit. So trade is not consummated until you 626 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 1: have each player past the physical, so David Johnson and 627 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: d hop had to pass physicals. We couldn't travel because 628 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, so we had to sit around on 629 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: pins and needles, number one, holding the secret that we 630 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: have Andre Hopkins coming, and in two the fact that 631 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: it's not done until there's a physical. So you're always, 632 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: you know, praying that this guy is going to pass 633 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: the physical. And thank goodness, they both did and it 634 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: all worked out. But for about a month or maybe 635 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: even two months, I had to sit on that with 636 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: nobody knowing, no reports, and truly there were days where 637 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: I remember waking up and I remember calling Michael Biblinson, 638 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: we're really getting DeAndre Hopkins, aren't we? You know, like really, 639 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: like is this really real or my dreaming? I mean, 640 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: the pandemic was screwy enough. You know, you already had 641 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: stuff going on in your mind. You were playing games 642 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: with yourself, so it was pretty difficult. I find you 643 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: to be an incredibly easy guy to root for. We 644 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: have a personal Eric Tannambam's a buddy of mine, absolutely, 645 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: a great friend of yours. He just thinks the world 646 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: of you. And if anybody that likes Eric, I love so. Steve. 647 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: I appreciate this. I love when you can educate my 648 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: audience and share stories. And this has been as much 649 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: fun in thirty minutes as I can have. My man, 650 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: Let's talk again. Absolutely, Thanks Colin. All right, that was fun. 651 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: That ship was fun right there. I'm not gonna lie. 652 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: That was man. You don't get to do that on 653 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: TV or radio thirty minutes to Steve kim stories. Can 654 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: you imagine having a secret on DeAndre Hopkins for thirty minutes. 655 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: I couldn't keep it. I couldn't do it. I would 656 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: just at some point my mouth would open and the 657 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: words would come out and it would end up in 658 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: the paper. At the Volume Sports, Twitter, Instagram, rate review, Subscribe, 659 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: YouTube Channel two Talk Soon the Volume