1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,200
Speaker 1: You're about to hear a clip from one of our

2
00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: Patreon exclusive episodes. To hear the entire episode, sign up

3
00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,680
Speaker 1: now at patreon dot com. Slash Jenkins and Jones.

4
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 2: The motherfucking yeah, I said in the first thing.

5
00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 1: We have company John, I.

6
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,560
Speaker 3: Know, and also she talk and I try to step

7
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,240
Speaker 3: on nine. Let me please stop.

8
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: Welcome to Jenkins and Jones, independently owned operator since twenty

9
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,880
Speaker 1: twenty five. We've got a very special guest today talking

10
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,360
Speaker 1: about her book, Once Upon a Time in Dollywood. It

11
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,960
Speaker 1: is acclaimed author Jenkins and Jones subscriber Ashley Jordan. Ashley,

12
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.

13
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. Hi, everybody, Yeah,

14
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:50,680
Speaker 3: this is so hype.

15
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: This is super hype. Do you want me to do

16
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 1: an intro or should we get straight into it?

17
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:57,680
Speaker 3: Whatever you want, this is your show.

18
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 1: As always, Jenkins and Jones is hosted by mister Cheeks

19
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 1: Jethro Jenkins Man.

20
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 3: I was mister, but you know what I'm saying because

21
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 3: he from the nineties anyway, he was one of my favorite.

22
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,360
Speaker 1: Songs Dragonfly Jones aka Tyler.

23
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,800
Speaker 3: Hey, everybody on the gun GUARDI b A k A Mike.

24
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: So we're produced as always by the lovely and talented

25
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:39,399
Speaker 1: Jackson staff. That's what I said. Ashley is a real

26
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,960
Speaker 1: Ja and Jones listener. That's what I was like.

27
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 2: She might want to I did, but I didn't want to,

28
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 2: like tell you what to do.

29
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 1: Well, you can tell us whatever you want us to

30
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,000
Speaker 1: do for the next thirty minutes. Thank you so much

31
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: for joining us. Congratulations on all the success of the book.

32
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,480
Speaker 1: Where should we should we start with the origin story?

33
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 1: Do we just jump straight into it?

34
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:02,720
Speaker 3: Sure?

35
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: Okay, so we talked about this on the court the

36
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,120
Speaker 2: other day. But yes, my origin story starts on like

37
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 2: AO three, I assume because we're all basically the same age,

38
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 2: don't know what fan fiction is. Yes, so yeah that's

39
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 2: where I started.

40
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,080
Speaker 3: And should I just tell them, like tell us whatever

41
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 3: you want to sure you're writing. I'm intrigued. So this

42
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 3: is so stupid. It's not stupid.

43
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,360
Speaker 1: I really actually, I really think it's like one of

44
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 1: the best stories. Like there's not a lot of fun

45
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,440
Speaker 1: stories about writers, like, you know, it's a great It's

46
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 1: like really, like I have told people who do not

47
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 1: read this story.

48
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,639
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so the the property was The Walking Dead.

49
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 3: I used to love that show. I'm so sorry.

50
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,840
Speaker 1: I kind of fell off for a while after a while,

51
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,919
Speaker 1: but after started the first half of that makes sense.

52
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first few seasons were actually good then. Yeah,

53
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 2: so that's basically why I was writing fan fiction, like

54
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 2: I was fixing ship that was pissing me off?

55
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,799
Speaker 3: Was that your first foray in to running? Because I

56
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 3: feel like folks who like you know, become professional writers.

57
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 3: I feel like they always loved writing. It's like elementary school.

58
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 2: Well okay, yes, I did love writing, but and then

59
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 2: I'm like in college, I was like, oh, I'm going

60
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 2: to go into journalism, and it was kind of at

61
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 2: a time where journalism was not a good thing.

62
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,040
Speaker 3: It's like a good idea, and so are you smart

63
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:37,200
Speaker 3: to do that? Actually, don't you journalism only one I will.

64
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 2: To you? Were like I was major okay, yes, so

65
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,920
Speaker 2: I did do English, but also my mother was like, girl,

66
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:48,840
Speaker 2: you need a real job. So I put away like

67
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 2: the idea of like creating.

68
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 3: I know, right, parents did that, you know what I mean?

69
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 3: They also a finance major. I want to do that

70
00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 3: goofy ash.

71
00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, like my mom wanted me to business and I'm like,

72
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that. But you know, it was always

73
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 2: in the back of my mind. Teachers are all like,

74
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 2: you're a great writer, you should do this, blah blah blah,

75
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 2: And it never really occurred to me that I could

76
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 2: actually make money off of this.

77
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 3: So I just, like, you know, put it on the

78
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:12,880
Speaker 3: back burner.

79
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,520
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I had read fan fiction like in

80
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 2: high school, not really in college, but mostly in high school.

81
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 2: I was aware of it, and so I don't know

82
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 2: what drew me to it for this dumb show.

83
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:24,599
Speaker 3: I think it was the Nagara.

84
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 2: Like I just as soon as she stepped on screen,

85
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:28,840
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I love her. She's

86
00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,479
Speaker 2: me She's sick of these white people, and I just

87
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 2: wanted to like give her like a better story than

88
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,720
Speaker 2: what she was currently on screen.

89
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,359
Speaker 3: And so it was twenty sixteen when her and the

90
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 3: main character like actually got together Rick Crimes.

91
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,680
Speaker 2: And it was at the same time Beyonce's Lemonade came out,

92
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,599
Speaker 2: and for some reason, even though this couple had just

93
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 2: gotten back together and the whole fandom was very happy,

94
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,159
Speaker 2: I decided to use Lemonade to like write a story

95
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 2: and pull them apart, like just take them through it.

96
00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,600
Speaker 2: And so at the time I had no idea, but

97
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 2: this right from BuzzFeed was like also reading fan fiction,

98
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,480
Speaker 2: and she reached out. She DM me on Twitter, I

99
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 2: will never forget this, and she said this is one

100
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:07,840
Speaker 2: of the best books I read all year.

101
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 3: I said, oh, what what are you talking about? And

102
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:12,599
Speaker 3: she was so serious. She was like, I want to

103
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 3: do an interview with you. I really want you to

104
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 3: get published. And I'm like, oh, that's so sweet, but

105
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,520
Speaker 3: I have a job. I'm not doing that. Like that

106
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,440
Speaker 3: was again not in my mind at all.

107
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,279
Speaker 2: And then twenty twenty came along and I wasn't doing nothing,

108
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,600
Speaker 2: so I said, you know, maybe she was right.

109
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 3: Let's see what I can do with this.

110
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 2: And I had already written this story like it was

111
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 2: a two hundred thousand word fan fiction story. There were

112
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,000
Speaker 2: no zombies in it, but it was very much you

113
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 2: know about grief and all the stuff the book is about.

114
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 2: But it needed you know, polishing and all this stuff,

115
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 2: obviously cutting down a lot. So I spent a lot

116
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty doing that, and I started reaching out

117
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,840
Speaker 2: to agents. It went okay, like I got some good feedback.

118
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 2: I got one offer, but the agent didn't feel right

119
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 2: for me. It just felt like she wasn't selling where

120
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 2: I wanted to be like to publishers, I wanted to

121
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 2: be so I was like, I'm going to turn this down.

122
00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 3: And by I see what happens. Old decision. It felt

123
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,039
Speaker 3: stupid at the time, but it felt.

124
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 2: Right for me, you know, yeah, exactly exactly. And so

125
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 2: one of the agents told me because at the time

126
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,920
Speaker 2: that I wrote it, it was more focused on women's

127
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,919
Speaker 2: fiction and like the journey of the main character, it

128
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,039
Speaker 2: was not a romance. And she said, I think you

129
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,839
Speaker 2: do a good job of making this romance at the

130
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,080
Speaker 2: male point of view, which I was like, how to

131
00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 2: do that?

132
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,240
Speaker 3: But it was good.

133
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 2: It was good advice, honestly, like it really fleshed out

134
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 2: the story. And so I did that, and it took

135
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,880
Speaker 2: me a long time to create, I mean to like

136
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 2: send it out to agents again because I also went

137
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:38,839
Speaker 2: back to school to get my master's.

138
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,479
Speaker 3: This time I was really born twenty twenty. We just

139
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 3: got a master's. That's crazy, I got it.

140
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:53,480
Speaker 2: Yes, Black women get bored and go get their master's degrees. Man,

141
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,039
Speaker 2: it's insane. Yeah, it's insane. Because I got a dual

142
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 2: degree and then wrote this book. So all of this

143
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,360
Speaker 2: was happening, and so I was very slow at sending

144
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 2: it back out to agents, and at the time, because

145
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,159
Speaker 2: of the George Floyd protests and you know, black lives

146
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 2: mattering for a very brief period of time, publishing was

147
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 2: really interested in black stories. Supposedly briefly, but at the

148
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,600
Speaker 2: same time recent this one. You know, she has her

149
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 2: book club. She created this fellowship called blit Up, which

150
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 2: was supposed to not just for black authors, but for

151
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 2: any like underrepresented women. They wanted to help give them

152
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,160
Speaker 2: sort of like a leg up and publishing. We have

153
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,720
Speaker 2: a retreat and you know, just mentorship and all kinds

154
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 2: of things to sort of they're not going to give

155
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 2: you a book deal, but they.

156
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 3: Will help you if you do get a book deal.

157
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 2: So I applied for this and like they said, like

158
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 2: eight hundred people applied, they chose five people and I

159
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 2: was one of them, which is insane, yes, but that

160
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 2: really catapulted me toward you know, getting an agent, getting

161
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 2: a book deal, and eventually getting Rece's book club. Like,

162
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 2: they don't automatically pick everyone from this fellowship, but because

163
00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 2: I had been in it, they were aware of the

164
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 2: book and gave it to Reese and you know, it's

165
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 2: up to her what she picks and stuff.

166
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that moment like of finding out that

167
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: she had picked the book? Because I know from knowing authors,

168
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 1: those moments are as big as getting the book deal

169
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,280
Speaker 1: almost right, hitting that platform.

170
00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,640
Speaker 3: So what was that moment like for you?

171
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 2: It was it was again, nothing happened like normal with me,

172
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 2: but I my friend had ordered pre ordered my book.

173
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 2: It was originally supposed to come out October of last year,

174
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 2: and so my friend had pre ordered the book. She

175
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,680
Speaker 2: woke me up one Saturday morning She's like, Hey, do

176
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 2: you know Amazon saying your book's coming out in August?

177
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:36,360
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, it's not.

178
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 3: What are you talking about?

179
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 2: And part of me was like dying inside because I

180
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 2: was like something is wrong, like somebody is sabotaging me somewhere.

181
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 3: So I'm like Saturday morning, texting my agent like what's

182
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 3: going on? Why is this happening? Is this a glitch?

183
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 3: And she's like