1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are cut wrenching, but all 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: answers one question, Now, what you were appointed? I'm gonna say, 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: if I get it right, Dame Commander of the British Empire, 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: and that it was in twenty nineteen, there a ceremony. 14 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: Did the kids all come? And good? The ceremonies? Unbelieving? 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: It was very exciting. It was no, they actually only 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: allow you to take three people. So I took Lee, 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: Carly and my step son Jason. And then I felt 18 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: really bad because I've got two elder sisters who I'm 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: really close to. And I was talking to one of 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: the organizers a bit beforehand, and she said, how many 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: of you got and I said too, and she said, oh, 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: I think we can swing it. So I took my 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: two elder sisters and my eldest sister. She cried through 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: the whole thing for about three hours, but they did 25 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 1: it at Buckingham Palace and I got mine from the 26 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: then Prince Charles, who of course is law our King. Yes, 27 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: and he was really sweet because I was really nervous, 28 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: and he just said to me, it's about time you 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: got this. Oh, we're all very happy for you. My 30 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: guest today is Dame Leslie Lawson, or Twiggy. She's been 31 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: known for nearly six decades. Twiggy is an award winning actress, 32 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: a singer, a model, and in many ways, the face 33 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: of an entire generation. She became a global sensation at 34 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: age sixteen when her picture was discovered by a journalist 35 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: at a London hair salon. Twiggie would go on to 36 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: have a very prolific career as a model and news 37 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: regularly gracing the pages of Vogue before pivoting to the 38 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: stage and screen. Today, she's an author, a podcast host, 39 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: a doting mom and grandma, and a wife to her 40 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: wonderful husband Lee. I met them both thirty years ago, 41 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: and I am so grateful that our bond has stood 42 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: the test of time. So, without further ado, here is 43 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: one of my closest and coolest friends, Dame Twiggy. First 44 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: of all, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 45 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: Trying to think it's thirty years ago. We did that 46 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: movie together called The Diamond Trap, unbelievable. I was a 47 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: villain and you were a cup. I was a plea. 48 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: But don't you remember we got so hysterical we last 49 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: because you I mean, you're how tall are you? You're 50 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: I I think I was six feet then I've lost 51 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: a lot of height, but okay, I'm five foot six 52 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: and a half and you're sitting and we had a 53 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: scene if you remember, where I was meant to arrest 54 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: you in the in an elevator and we had we 55 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: got such giggles because you said to me, I could 56 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 1: not You're over in second pick you up with one arm, 57 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: like you're not going to be able to subdue this 58 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: big Well you're not just tall and much stronger than 59 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: we did. We did have it, and it was lovely 60 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: because that program, you know, led us to become friends, 61 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: which I will be forever grateful It was lovely. I'm 62 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: so happy. I remember being really just excited but nervous 63 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: and also just really wanting to you know, you don't 64 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: know how much I respected you, and that's just sweet. 65 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 1: When I look at your career and I look at mine, 66 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: I do see some similar things, especially as a concerns 67 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: like coming of age in the spotlight around the same time. 68 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you became famous around what's sixteen? Yeah, and 69 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: how old were you? You were younger? Weren't you? Well, 70 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: you know, I was eleven, because I did when I 71 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: did Pretty Baby. That really kind of just catapulted me 72 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: into some were you that I was eleven in that moment, 73 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: I thought you were like thirteen or forteen. You were eleven. 74 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: You're a baby. I was a baby. I mean I 75 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: was young, sixteen, but that's young. You had a life 76 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: sort of prior, do you know? Do you know what 77 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: I mean? Do you remember was it a big shift? Well? 78 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: When it first, you know, you've got to remember up 79 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: until that moment, moment that it happened, and it literally did. 80 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: I didn't plan to do it. I didn't. It wasn't 81 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: a planned thing. It wasn't I was a school girl 82 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: and I actually loved school. I was one of those 83 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: people who loved school. I went to a grammar school. 84 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: But I also loved clothes. I always made my own clothes. 85 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: And in that period, which was the early sixties, I 86 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: was what was called a mod, and I was only 87 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: allowed to go out in the evening on a Saturday night. 88 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: There was a local dance or where the mods went, 89 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: and my mum and dad would let me go as 90 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: long as I was home by ten o'clock. Often I 91 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: would make the clothes because I'd learned to sew for 92 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: my mom and my sisters, and I was I was 93 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: very into fashion. I love clothes like most teenagers, and 94 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: I was always playing around with makeup, but I could 95 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: only wear makeup on that Saturday. And did you feel 96 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: like core when you were the girl was hack of you? 97 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: And yeah, it was a group of us girls minds. 98 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't minies then. This was even pre minis. Yeah, 99 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: the pre white boots pre Yeah, this is like sixty 100 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: two sixty three, so that was about to happen. I 101 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: mean my first so called mini dress when I look 102 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: at pictures, and I was probably about fourteen, went to 103 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: a friend's wedding and actually it was only two inches 104 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: above my knee, so it wasn't that mini. But within 105 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: like two years I was wearing hardly more than a 106 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: big belt. Really, they're so sure, God, but so wait, 107 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: take us back a little bit too. You go, that 108 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: was then err and then you had long hair and 109 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: you go into a salon, I'll try and make it sure. 110 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: A friend of a friend, she had a friend who 111 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: worked on a woman's magazine, and she said, you know, 112 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: you've got a really interested in look because I'd always 113 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: at the weekend, i'd put my eyelashes on and paint 114 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: my eyes, which I got off of a rag doll. 115 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: I had a rag doll in my bedroom and I 116 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: used to copy that. And she introduced me to this 117 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: editress of a woman's magazine and she sent she said, 118 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: your hair's terrible because I used to die it myself 119 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: and it was like an orangey color. It was awful. 120 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: And she said, you gotta, we got to do something 121 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: your hair, and we'll have some test shots done of you. 122 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: And so she sent me to a very posh hairdressing 123 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: salon called the House of Leonard, and I actually went 124 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: there to have my hair styled, and the owner, Leonard, 125 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: saw me and came over and said, will you let 126 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: me cut your hair? And it was weird because I 127 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: didn't want my hair cut. I was a age girl. 128 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: I loved my long hair, but I was too frightened 129 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: to say no because he was, you know, I was 130 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: in this posh salon and that was the kind of 131 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: look that you know, took off. But they sent me 132 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: at the following week to have a photograph taken purely 133 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: for Leonard to hang in his salon to show his 134 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: new haircut. So I went to this gorgeous photographer called 135 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: Barry Lattican, and he was in a beautiful studio and 136 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: he sat me in front of the camera and he 137 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: was really sweet, and he took what has now become 138 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: a very famous photo, just me looking in a fair 139 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: arm sweater, looking into camera. And then a very famous 140 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: fashion journalist saw the picture. She was a client, and 141 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: said I love the haircut. Who's the girl? And Leonard said, well, 142 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: she's a schoolgirl and her nicknames Twiggy, and she said 143 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: I want to meet her, and I met her. She 144 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: interviewed me, and a week later in a big daily 145 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: newspaper was Twiggy the face of sixty six and that's 146 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: such a weird thing. I know what happened at school 147 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: did a change her relationships with your friends? Yeah? It did, 148 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: because people were ringing the newspaper to book me. Because 149 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: I didn't have an agent or anything. I was a schoolgirl. 150 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: So it all happened so so unbelievably fast. Was it 151 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: in line with anything you'd ever thought you would be doing? No, 152 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: you know I was. It's so funny when I look 153 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: at our home scrapbook, the old pictures are mainly my 154 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: sisters who went to tap class and went to Brownies 155 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: and girl guides, but none of me because I wouldn't go. 156 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: I just wanted a bit at home with my mum. 157 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: I was really shy. I hated doing anything without her. 158 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: So the fact that what happened to me happened to 159 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: me is was very very peculiar. Were you scared? I mean, 160 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: was anybody with you when you're flying? Yeah? I meant 161 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: part of the deal, because you know, I was sixteen, 162 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: which I was a very very young, unsophisticated sixteen, because 163 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: I meet sixteen year olds an hour and they seem 164 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: very grown up. So I had I had a manager, 165 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: and my dad said, if I'm going to let you 166 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: leave school and go to these places with photographers and things. 167 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: He's got to go with you and be there all 168 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: the time and with your boyfriend. He yeah, he became 169 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: my boyfriend. Yeah, and he was ten years older than me. 170 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: God it was a bit scandalous, I suppose. But but 171 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: but in a way, you know, when all the stuff 172 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: started coming out over the last couple of decades of 173 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: what has gone on to some were lots of poor 174 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: actresses and models and how they were treated that that 175 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: didn't happen to me because I had this guy always 176 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: in standing at the back of the studio and he 177 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: was quite a big guy, you know, muscular, and so 178 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: I never got hit on. And when when you look 179 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: at that relationship, you say it became it became your boyfriend. 180 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: What do you think about that relationship now, Well, it's 181 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: so long ago, and I ended it in the end 182 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: because I grew out of it very quickly. But what 183 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: was complicated was that he was managing me, so it 184 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: was very complicated. But you know, we sorted it out 185 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: and then I went on to meet my first husband, 186 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: Arlie's dad. Now, social class is a huge part of 187 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: British society. Oh yeah, your family, and you were very 188 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: much working, working, very much. So yeah, but at the 189 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: same time you've become sort of this face for a 190 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: nation and in many ways an entire era. Well the person, 191 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: the person who really cemented that for me was Diana 192 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: of Reland, who she for people who don't know, she 193 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: was the editors of American Vogue. And I always say 194 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: that Diana of Reland turned me global because I was 195 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: very famous in England, but the rest of the world 196 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: probably hadn't heard of me unless they got British papers. 197 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: But why do you think that is, I mean, you 198 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: had such a huge impact. Well, she brought me to 199 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: New York when she read all the stuff going on 200 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: in England. Within nine months I was in New York. 201 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: And because of me going in a few years after 202 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: the Beatles, I was like part of that British invasion. 203 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: I was turned into a celebrity. But what happened in 204 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: New York which we didn't count on. When I arrived 205 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: at the airport, you know, there was a press conference 206 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: and there were crowds of people with banners saying welcome tweet. 207 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: It was like because I I came in after the Beatles, 208 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: so it was very peculiar, a bit scary, and I 209 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: can remember going for a walk one day and we 210 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: had to escape into a shop because people were coming 211 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: up and saying could they touch me? And the girls 212 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: started like getting bits of paper out and screaming, and 213 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: that was scary. It was weird because you didn't spend 214 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: that many years modeling, did you. I modeled for four 215 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: years from nineteen sixty six to nineteen sixty nine seventy. 216 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: But in the interim I met this amazing man called 217 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: Ken Russell, you know, the film director, and he cast 218 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: me in my first film, and The Boyfriend and One. 219 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: So we started filming and it was a musical and 220 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: I got to sing and dance and it was like, 221 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is am this is what I 222 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: want to do. So I made the decision at the 223 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: grand old age of twenty that I would follow that 224 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: route rather than the modeling route, because in those days 225 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: there was a bit of a down or you know, 226 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: models were pretty and thick and stupid, which is an 227 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: absolute rubbish, but that's what the kind of feeling was, 228 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: and that I thought, if I'm going to be taken 229 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: seriously as a performer, I probably got an model. Well, also, 230 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: you're so recognizable and so on for you know, everybody's brain. 231 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: And at a time of such high fashion, did you 232 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: did they dress you? Did you pack your own clothes 233 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: and dress yourself for these shows? And well I didn't. 234 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: I never did catwalk. Actually, that was one thing I 235 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: didn't do. I never did either. I did I did 236 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: you know the top fashion magazines, so as you know, 237 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: they send the clothes over you, model is sent for 238 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: you to wear. But was it the same way with 239 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: you when it was in because they never used to 240 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: give us anything Like the stuff you've usually had huge 241 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: holes in it so that people wouldn't steal it or somehow. 242 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: But we never, you know, we never given anything. I 243 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: know because people always say, oh, you must have got 244 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: such amazing clothes, but usually they were samples anyway, so 245 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: they're not going to give you the samples, right, I 246 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: mean I only fit into samples for a little while. 247 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I never did runway. But 248 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: I was never really small enough to fit into the 249 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: samples except for when I was much much younger. Well 250 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: I was the I was the opposite. A lot of 251 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: the samples didn't fit me because I was so tiny. 252 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: I was you know, only five foot six and tiny, 253 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: and was there pressure. You talk about it a lot. 254 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: I mean you've you talk about sort of the idea 255 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: of the physical and the industry's expectation of the female body, 256 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: and you were the absolute center of what it meant. 257 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: I got blamed for anorexia, and I used to go 258 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: on TV and explain that I understood because I was 259 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: very skinny, but that I ate like a horse. I 260 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: didn't put myself up there to say this. You've got 261 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: to look like listen. I was as shocked as probably 262 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: more than anyone. You know, what happened to me happened 263 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: because you know I didn't. I thought I was well. 264 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: I was a funny little thing, really very skinny legs, 265 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: not what you'd call a figure. As one journalists said, 266 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: Oh great, I love how those are the things that 267 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: stick out to us. But it's just but a lot 268 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: of people, I think to assume that, and I think 269 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: we have seen it a lot. You know, I hear 270 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: those horror stories of models who eat cutton balls to 271 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: fill their stomach up. I've hearing all these and you know, 272 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: you look at the samples now and in the shows, 273 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: and they're not getting better. I mean, I know that 274 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: there's tough they say it's body inclusivity and that there's 275 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: healthier bodies in there, but the clothes are not reflecting it. 276 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: And when the times that I've seen shows, it's amazing 277 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: how thin I know, and it's worrying actually, And I 278 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: always did come out and say, look, you know I 279 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: am very thin, but I'm very young. I do eat. 280 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: I eat very healthily. I eat most things. And you know, 281 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: everyone is not born to be a certain shape, you know. 282 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not healthy to be obesely overweight, but 283 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: I don't think everyone should be skinny. I really don't 284 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: a body type though. It's really should not be a trend, 285 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think absolutely not. And that whole that 286 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: pressure was put on you. You know that that was 287 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: the ideal that you had to be that way. And 288 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: I think what helped me actually because I think the 289 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: fact that I only modeled for those four years, it 290 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: didn't become the be all and end all of life, 291 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: do you know? I mean, because I met Ken Russell 292 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: and he gave me the gift of casting me in 293 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: this wonderful film that he made. Did he ever tell 294 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: you what he thought? Like? Did he ever say to you, 295 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: this is why I want you to do this. You've 296 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: never done it before, but this is what I want 297 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: for you. I mean, his faith in me was extraordinary 298 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: because I didn't have I didn't have an equity card, 299 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 1: which in England I don't know about in America you 300 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: couldn't do a film unless you had an equity card. 301 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: And he picked it equity to get me a card 302 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: because it was ridiculous they wouldn't give me a card 303 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: because I was a model, and he got me one 304 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: in the end, so I mean, he really did have faith. 305 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: And then the studios, as you can imagine, I think 306 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: it was MGM, they didn't want me in the lead, 307 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: which again you know they said she's a model. But 308 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: luckily at that point Ken Russell was the most famous 309 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: British film director. You know, he'd done Women in Love 310 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: and The Devil's I mean he was he was huge 311 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: megastar in that world and he was like the Steven 312 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: Spielberg of England there absolutely, and so he just God 313 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: bless him, said well, if I don't have her, I 314 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: won't make it. So you get on this set and 315 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: it's a revelation to you. Oh, unbelievable scary. I was 316 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: really can imagine how scared I was, because you know 317 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: I was. It was all I knew a few actors 318 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: I'd met, but I to walk on and knowing they 319 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: were all professional actors, and you know, but they were 320 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: all at Bar one. Everyone in that on that film 321 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: were wonderful to me, and Christopher Gabele who was my 322 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: leading man, and Tommy cho and that's where I met Tommy. 323 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: I got him cast in that Actually. You know, it's 324 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: interesting because I never felt that I was in the 325 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: pocket of what I was supposed to do until I 326 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: discovered comedy and musical theater. Oh okay, when did you 327 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: feel like your career aligned with your actual passions? Oh gosh, well, 328 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: that's funny enough. I was so nervous about doing my 329 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: one and only but like you, it was like again, 330 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, this is amazing. I 331 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: don't really remember opening night because I was so scared, 332 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: but we got through it. I remember Tommy had hurt 333 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: his back so he couldn't kick his leg as high 334 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: as he wanted to, and I had I had, I 335 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: had I'd got a sore throat because you know, when 336 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: you put a show on You're so tired by the 337 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: time you open. But anyway, we opened and they loved us, 338 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: thank God. And My one and only was a musical 339 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: that you did on Broadway as well, was in the 340 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: West exactly. It is, yeah, amazing and you and Tommy 341 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: tune ah, that's RISI BlimE. I grew to absolutely love 342 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: an Adore. It was. It was, and I'll always thank 343 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: Tommy for giving me that chance because it was a 344 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: world I never thought i'd enter that I could, and 345 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: I did grow to really love in the door. We 346 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: did it for eighteen months. Okay, I want to switch 347 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: over to talk about your first husband, Michael Carly's dad. 348 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: How old was she when he passed away. She was 349 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: coming up to her fifth birthday. It was horrendous. But 350 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: that whole period was very difficult. I mean, he was 351 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: an amazing man, a very talented man, but he did 352 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: have an alcohol problem and it sadly, while I was 353 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: doing the show on Broadway, it kind of got worse, 354 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: I think because I was so busy doing that, and 355 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: eventually he did have a massive heart attack and he 356 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: didn't make it. While you were away what I was doing, 357 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: I was doing the show, but we were separated at 358 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: that time because it had become so difficult with his problem, 359 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: and bless his heart, he had gone to he'd stopped 360 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: drinking for about nine months, I think, and gone to 361 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: AA and things, so he was trying. But I think 362 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: the damage, well, we know the damage was done. But 363 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: the heart, my heart really went out to Carlie because 364 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'd kind of made the decision not to Well, 365 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: I couldn't be with him, I couldn't do the show, 366 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: deal with the other problem. It had kind of broken, 367 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. How do you keep 368 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: his memory positively alive for her? How do you well, 369 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: we talk about him all the time and and you know, 370 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: and she knows the problem he had, and well it's 371 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: nobody's fault when the alcoholism takes over, I suppose, but 372 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: he gave up a lot for that, you know, the bottle, 373 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: if you know what I mean, which is what happens 374 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: with people who have a drink problem. I think I 375 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: always say to her, he loved you more than anything 376 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: in the world, which he did. You know, she was 377 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: his angel. And the hardest thing for her, she can't 378 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: really remember him that well because she's only five. Yeah, 379 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: and I mean, that's that's the hard, hard pope. But 380 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: then you're all of a sudden, I mean you probably 381 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: felt like you were a single mom already. Yeah. And 382 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: also I had to get I mean I took obviously, 383 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: I took a couple of days off. My understudy went 384 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: on to deal with the things you have to deal 385 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: with and and make sure Carly was all right. And 386 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: then I thought, well, hold on, I've got to go 387 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: back to work. You know, I'm I'm now the bread 388 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: the number one breadwinner. I've got a daughter, you know. 389 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: And actually the show helped, well, I carve the show 390 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: now because it's about moments like that one that totally 391 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: uproot your life. And I'm always very curious, um if 392 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: there was a particular one or a few in your 393 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: life that that really stick out to you. Well, we've 394 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: just we've just talked about one. Yeah, And I made 395 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: that decision. I think, well, you'll understand this, and any 396 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: mother out there, in the end, it's your baby, and 397 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: you are the sole provider and loved one of that child. 398 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: And she, you know, she became my world and to 399 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: look after that world I had to. But as I said, 400 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: it helped me as well. Of course, carrying on doing 401 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: the show. Was your mom helpful with Carly? She was 402 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: quite elderly when Carly came along, and also she had 403 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: depression issues. She was fine for a lot of the time, 404 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: but then I think nowadays she'd probably be diagnosed as bipolar, 405 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: but they didn't do it then, and she actually had 406 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: shock treatment when she was in her fifties. Really, they 407 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: gave a shock treatment. Francis Farmer and like Francis Farmer, yeah, exact, 408 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: really beautiful actress. Yeah, so your sister's probably that when 409 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: you say she's like your older sister was like a mum. Yeah, 410 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: that's why because if you can imagine, when I was five, 411 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: my elder sister was twenty, so she used to take 412 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: me on holiday, and you know, mum was and I 413 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: loved I was really close to my mum, but she 414 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: was kind of fragile, if you know what I mean. 415 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: So by the time Carly came along, she was older 416 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: and she, you know, dealing with whatever was going on 417 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: with her um. So you know, she I used to 418 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: take Carly to see her when we were when we 419 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: were in England because you know, but then we were 420 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: living half the time in America and they had a 421 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: nice relationship, but again, it wasn't like like the relationship 422 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: I've got with Carli's too. When you're so young, you 423 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: don't did you really know what was what it was 424 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: like growing up in that environment with a mum who 425 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: who struggled. Not really, not until I was older, because 426 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: my dad was amazing, right, And as I say, it 427 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: would for months and months and months and months, mum 428 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: would be fine and then she would have a dip. Yeah, 429 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: until she wasn't. And they didn't really know how to 430 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: diagnose that then and how to look at They gave 431 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: her pills, the good old pills, give her a pill treatment. 432 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: But she lived till she was ninety ones. And I'm sure, 433 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: even if she didn't quite know how to express it, 434 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: that she was truly truly proud of her little Yeah 435 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: she was, she was, and you know she did your 436 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: sisters have babies? Oh yeah, they've got They had surely 437 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: had three, and they've had two and now they're they're 438 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: all having babies. So the extended family is endless, as 439 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: as as it always is. So funny, Um, so you're 440 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: doing a documentary. How were you approached for the documentary? Well, 441 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: funny enough, Sadie Frost and very sweet you agreed to 442 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: be interviewed. Thank you. It's very honored to have been 443 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: asked to appear in your documentary. Thank you. Well. I 444 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: was doing my podcast, which you very kindly did, and 445 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: I got a call through my producer saying, the public 446 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: relations people for this new documentary on Mary Quant who 447 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: was a famous British designer, directed by Sadie Frost, is 448 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: coming out. This is about eighteen months ago, and could 449 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: Sadie come on my podcast to talk about And I said, oh, great, 450 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: because I kind of I didn't know her ever so well, 451 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: but I knew her. So she did my podcast and 452 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: we were chatting and I said, are you going to 453 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: do another documentary? And she said, oh, I should do 454 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: you and we laughed, and then when we came off air, 455 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: she said, what do you think would you let me 456 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: do you? And I said, WHOA, yeah, I suppose. I 457 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: can't really stop being So then we went out for 458 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: lunch the next week and she said, I think it's 459 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: quite a good idea. What do you think? And I 460 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, if you really want to, yeah, 461 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's your baby. Really, Oh, it's exciting 462 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: it's it's going to be very emotional when you watch it, 463 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: and I'd rather it be done by somebody that I 464 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: kind of know, right, And also she did a brilliant 465 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: job one quant. I don't know whether you watched it, 466 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: but it's a really good documentary. I can't wait till 467 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: the process. This part of the process you get to 468 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: experience because it's just so good for all the right reasons. 469 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: And it's not praising, it's nothing, nothing about that. It's 470 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 1: the depth of a life and you can appreciate that. 471 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: If you were to look, when you look back on 472 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: your many, many accomplishments in your life, what would you 473 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: say your through line is? Oh, gosh, um, I think 474 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: what's important in my life? I mean because of what 475 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: happened to me? And again a bit like what happened 476 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: to you was so extraordinary and you couldn't have You 477 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: couldn't have choreographed it. If you if you or written it, 478 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 1: people say, oh, that's rubbish, that can't happen to somebody. 479 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: So my through line really was always my family. It 480 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: was always very important that I had a home life 481 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: because I'd met many people in our business that had 482 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: gone the other way, and that the work was the 483 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: most important, and and they'd kind of lost the other 484 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: and they didn't seem very happy. And my personal life 485 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: has always been incredibly important. I was very lucky to 486 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: meet Lee, who my husband. We've been together now for 487 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: thirty eight years this year. Well thank you. And that's 488 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: always been my kind of rock, my home life, being 489 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: mum to Carli, now being you know, grandpa. What's weird now? 490 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: Because Joan is seven and other little girls in her 491 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: class whose mums have probably said something because she came 492 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: home and said to me, are you stuymuch? Oh they're not? 493 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: Oh God, here we go. I knew it would happen 494 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: one day because somebody was going to say something, all right, 495 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: And I said, well, you know, I've done a few things, 496 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: but I'm still your mimi, so I don't worry about 497 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: it exactly. And I wouldn't have it any other way. 498 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: But my role, because I said, is my family. That 499 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: was the one and only Twiggy. If you want to 500 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: hear more from her, listen to her podcast Tea with 501 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: Twiggy Annie. iHeartRadio, app Apple podcasts or wherever you get 502 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: your podcasts. That's it for us. Tucked to you next week. 503 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: Now What with Brookshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our 504 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: lead producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research 505 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: and editing by Darby Masters and Abou Zafar. Our executive 506 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahed Fraser.