1 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene with 2 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: David Gura. Daily we bring you insight from the best 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: of economics, finance, investment, and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot Com, and of course, 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg. David Gurra in New York, Francy Lapwa 6 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: in London. The President saying he's going to travel to 7 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: Texas tomorrow to inspect what's continue to happen there, the 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: storm continuing to range over Houston many parts of the 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: state of Texas. He's gonna head to St. Louis a 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: little later this week as well to talk about taxi form. 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: A lot of politics and policy to talk about with 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: the conversation. Mark Walker who joins us here in a 13 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven three studios in New York. He's a Republican 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: who represents the sixth district in North Carolina. He's the 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: head of the Republican Study Committee as well. Let's start 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: with with the budget, with all the obligations to Congress 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: faces when they get back here in September. I have 18 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: to pass a funding bill, have to do something with 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: with the death ceiling. Who are you listening to? Who 20 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: should we be listening to in leadership for guidance on 21 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: what's going to happen and when? Well, I believe, first 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: of all, I want to commend Chairwoman Dyeing Black and 23 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: her work on the Budget Committee. Uh, it's rare. I 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: believe that you have to go back ten years where 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: you had a unanimous Republican support on a budget and 26 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: there members across the board, including Freedom Caucus members in there. 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: So I know she worked weekends, stayed on the phone, 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: But to pass that out of Budget Committee, I believe 29 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: deserves a very quick vote and we're certainly encouraging leadership 30 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: to get it to the House floor. One of the 31 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: things that we feel very impressed about it is over 32 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: the next ten years, it does take an honest look 33 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: and reform close to two hundred billion dollars of some 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: specifically some of the Medicaid. Uh. We we've seen the 35 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,279 Speaker 1: current healthcare budget. As we move forward, as another forty 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: million Americans to the Medicaid roles over that ten years, 37 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: it's certainly something that we can't afford. And and I 38 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: will tell you as a former pastor, I don't believe 39 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: it we're doing a service to people by continuing to 40 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: create a spirit of enablement as opposed to maybe an 41 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: incentive to be able to continue to pull yourselves different 42 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: levels out of out of poverty. So when it comes 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: to who we're listening to, we're listening to cheerwoman Black, 44 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: but we're also listening to the leadership as well. Do 45 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: people talk about regular order on Capitol Hill anymore? Have 46 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: we gotten used to this process of continuing resolution after 47 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: continuing resolutions? UH? Short term funding bill after short term 48 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: funding bill? And and do you think we're gonna get 49 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: back to a point where we see a regularity of 50 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: the budget process in Washington again? Well, being there in 51 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,839 Speaker 1: my second term, there's a legend that a regular order 52 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: once existed. Yet, but we're I don't I don't know 53 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: how much of it. We We talked a lot about it, 54 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: but it's probably more rhetoric than anything else. And there 55 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: is some guys that are the purest traditionists. As far 56 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: as trying to get back to it, I believe there's 57 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: good measure and good reasoning why we should be focusing 58 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: on it. However, we live in such interesting days back 59 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: and forth with administration different caucuses. Uh, different leadership that 60 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: that's up even since I've been there. So it's all 61 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: over the map right now. On the issue of tax reform, 62 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: We've gotten a piece of paper from the White House. 63 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: A few months later, we got two pieces of paper 64 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: from the White House. We know that the border just 65 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: a tax is no longer on the table. What's your 66 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: sense of the timetable here for for tax reform? And 67 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: is it a belief of yours that we need to 68 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: get tax reforms? It's deficit neutral if I can get 69 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: away from my talking points, I believe there is legitimate, 70 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: legitimate hope that this is something we can get across 71 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: the board. Uh. We use the word hopeful and optimistic 72 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: and all the different things that we talked about. But 73 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: from what I'm seeing in the work with Kevin Brady 74 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: and ways and means um he and Speaker run obviously, 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: as you just mentioned, we're very keen and very hopeful 76 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: that they can get this thing through with a Board 77 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: of Adjustment to tax because of what it would do 78 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: to the growth immediately. Uh, that is something that we're 79 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: going to have to look as for as how we 80 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: do find that money somewhere else. But as far as 81 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to legitimate tax reform the first time 82 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: in thirty woidant years, I believe there's some sign off 83 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: on from the White House, both with a Senate and 84 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: with a House. So that is something that we can 85 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: never get to on the same page with health care. 86 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: Every time this piece moved a little bit, then it 87 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: then it calls the equal and opposite reaction somewhere else. 88 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: But I believe when it comes to tax reform, without 89 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: putting a hard timeline, I would be very surprised if 90 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: we didn't have this pass before Thanksgiving. UM Congressman, what 91 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 1: does it mean being a Republican a two thousand and seventeen? 92 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: Is it more frustrating now than it was a year ago? 93 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: I believe it is. I'm one that's relatively new to 94 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: the political scene, and I was a pastor for nearly 95 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: eighteen years and work in business and finance right out 96 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: of school for about five or six years. But in 97 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: the two and a half years three years that I've 98 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: been here in in the political scene, uh, my job 99 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: is still continue to put a lot of attention, a 100 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: lot of energy into relationships. I'm very proud that I 101 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: represent UM all of our communities, I represent the largest 102 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: historical black college and university and in all of the 103 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: country in my district, and making sure that Republicans are 104 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: still talking about things that are important to us long 105 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: term when it comes to fiscal but also understand there's 106 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: there's a heart component of this. Uh. As far as 107 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: how we message, I've learned that Republicans are pretty notorious. 108 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: They have a good objective long term, I believe, but 109 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: sometimes fumble in and trying to express why that's important 110 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 1: to all of our communities and not just to select few. 111 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: How's our president doing? How's your president doing? President Trump? UM? 112 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: I believe that overall I would give marks UM that 113 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: are positive because of how much that we've been able 114 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: to get done in the regulatory component, obviously had it 115 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: has impacted the markets. Uh. Now that we were nine 116 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: months almost into this at ten if you want to 117 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: count since the inauguration, but moving into month and or 118 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: nine since um since January. Uh, there are things I 119 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: feel like that continue to be improved. I remember speaking 120 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: to him not too long ago and and and him remarking, hey, listen, 121 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still learning this. Uh. You know, I 122 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: thought I was not one that had a huge pedigree 123 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: of two and a half years. This is something that's 124 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: certainly he has, uh, certainly more room to grow, more 125 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: room to learn. UM, and I understand from a leadership component, 126 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: when you been someone that really hasn't been accountable to 127 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: anyone else is specifically in your line, there's there was 128 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: no board. He answered to uh in learning now that 129 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: there are three equal branches and trying to find the 130 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: balance and all that, as well as trying to motivate 131 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 1: people to pursue or to to complete what he feels 132 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: like is an agenda that American people elected him to accomplish. 133 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: All of that has been kind of a working order. 134 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: Have we arrived We have not. But if you look 135 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: at people like Taylorson and Madis and Gorst's there are 136 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: some winds here that I believe we can celebrate Gods 137 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: but thank you so much of the time, and they 138 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: appreciate that. Joining us here on Blombergradi and Blomberg Television 139 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: as well as Corns and Mark Walker, who represents the 140 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: sixth district in North Carolina, the chair of the Republican 141 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: Study Committee here on Bloomberg Surveillance on Bloombergradio, David Garray 142 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: in New York. Francy and Lapwa in London. This is 143 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Warn. David Gray in New York, Francy Lackwoy in London. 144 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: Tom Keene is offten. This is Bloomberg Surveillance on Bloomberg Radio. 145 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: We continue, of course, to monitor the storm bearing down 146 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: on Texas, on Houston in particular. That's Tropical Storm Harvey, 147 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: downgraded from hurricane status. He's still pouring a ton of 148 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: rain on that city. Flooding a huge issue there, and 149 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: we'll have updates on the situation there throughout the morning. 150 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: Looking at today's agenda, the President schedule to deliver a 151 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: joint press conference with the President of Finland a little 152 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: bit later today, that's at four twenty. Wall Street Time 153 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: will have coverage of that for you here right here 154 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Well, there's a lot of news on 155 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: Friday afternoon, of course, as the hurricane approached the Gulf coast. 156 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: Also the President electing to part in the former sheriff 157 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: of Maricopa County in Arizona, controversial Sheriff Joe R. Peo, 158 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: and the President wrote in a statement on the heels 159 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: of that decision, he's now Joe or Peo now eighty 160 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: five years old and after more than fifty years of 161 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: admirable service to our nation, he is a worthy candidate 162 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: for a presidential parton. Somebody who thinks differently about this 163 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: is no filment. He's a professor of law at Harvard 164 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: Law School, a columnist for Bloomberg View as well. He's 165 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: written about this. He wrote about this in advance of 166 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: that and saying if the president were to do that, 167 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: it could be an impeachable offense. In his words, no 168 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: Felton joins us now on our phone lines, Noah Joe 169 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: Pio convicted of contempt of court by Judge Susan Bolton, explain, 170 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: you know what what what he's being pardoned from. I 171 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: think that's key here, It is absolutely key. The background 172 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: here is that UM a group of citizens sued our 173 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: Pio and the Maricopa County Sheriff's office for unconstitutionally detaining 174 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: I think people mostly Latinos, on suspicion that they were 175 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: undocumented and then holding them indefinitely in prison. And a 176 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: court held that was unconstitutional, that it violated the basic 177 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: rights of the people who were being detained, and the 178 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: court ordered our Pio and the office to stop doing it. 179 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: Our pile refused to stop doing it, and he told 180 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: his staff, We're going to keep on doing exactly what 181 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: we've been doing. First he was held in civil contempt 182 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: and then the Justice Department prosecuted him for criminal contempt um, 183 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: which is pretty unusual, and he was found guilty and 184 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: sentenced to a fairly symbolic sentence of about six months. 185 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: You write about the effect that this could have, this 186 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: pardon could have on the integrity of the legal system. 187 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 1: Just explain what you mean by that. The President, by 188 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: doing this calls into questions sort of the strictures of 189 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: our legal system in this country and your estimation. Yeah, well, 190 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's pretty rare for a sworn law 191 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: enforcement official to be ordered by a court to do 192 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: something and to flat out say no, I'm not going 193 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: to do it. It's even more rare when the thing 194 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: that the law enforcement official has done is to break 195 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: the constitution. And it's even rare for the person than 196 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: to be convicted by the courts, specifically at defying a 197 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: court order. When the President pardoned someone under these conditions, 198 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: what he's basically communicating is that it was fine for 199 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: law enforcements to ignore what the courts told him to do, 200 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: and that it was fine for him to violate the 201 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: Constitution itself. So that's a basic challenge to the rule 202 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: of law. It's saying that a law enforceani can ignore 203 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: the law, ignore the power of the courts to say 204 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: what the law is, and do whatever he wants, including 205 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: violence the constitutional rights of ordinary people. And that's pretty stunning. Frankly, 206 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: It's pretty different in a situation where someone is pardoned 207 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: for committing a crime, because in this instance, the problem 208 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: is not so much that what our pio did is 209 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: against the laws, that it was in direct violation of 210 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: what a judge told him the constitution required. But no, 211 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: he suggests this is an impeachable offense. But then I thought, 212 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: the president pardon who he wanted. Great question. The bottom 213 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: line is this. It's true that the presidents can pardon 214 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: whomever he chooses to parting, probably himself excluded in the 215 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: sense that once the pardon is issued, our Pio can't 216 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: go to jail. I mean the pardon worked in that sense. 217 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that the president is free of any 218 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: sanction for what he's done. If the president abuses his 219 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: power by partnering people, let's say, who were close to him, 220 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: or to serve his own interests, or in this instance, 221 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: to basically fundamentally contravene the idea the constitution binds law 222 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: enforcement officials. The thing that we can do about that 223 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: is to invoke the impeachment power. And it's not just 224 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,599 Speaker 1: me who's saying that. Uh. In When they were ratifying 225 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: the Constitution of the United States at the Virginia Ratifying Convention, 226 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: James Madison, who was the lead draft into the Constitution, 227 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: he was asked specifically about the part in power. The 228 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: people were saying, well, we shouldn't have a part in 229 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: power in the constitution. Is a bad idea. What if 230 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: the president abuses the part in power? Madison said, essentially, well, 231 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: the president uses the part in power, you can impeach him. 232 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: That's the power you have available to you. So the 233 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: idea here is that the part in power, it's not 234 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: it's absolute in the sense the president can do it 235 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: if he wants to, but it's not outside the bounds 236 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: of sanction. And the sanction that's available is impeachment. Right, 237 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: you have to refresh my memory because it's been a 238 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: couple of years that I haven't done constitution a law. 239 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: This is not the abuse of power our article, right, 240 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: this is you're talking about something else. No, Well, in 241 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: the constitution um, a president can be impeached for what 242 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: are called high crimes and misdemeanors. But I tradition, this 243 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: was very clear of the founders. High crimes and misdemeanors 244 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: does not mean breaking a statute, doesn't mean breaking a 245 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: law only it would include that, But it also means 246 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: any abuse of the presidential power, and that is part 247 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: of the impeachment structure. And it's been the case when 248 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: previous presidents have been impeached that Congress has not restricted 249 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: itself to presidential violation of a written statute. They've also 250 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: gone after the president for what they considered abuses of power. 251 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: So abuse of power is a sort of general catch 252 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: all phrase that I'm using to capture the idea of 253 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: high crimes and misdemeanors, and that would cover impeachment. There's 254 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: plenty of things the president can do that would deserve 255 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: impeachment that don't violate a specific law that's on the books, 256 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: but that obviously subvert the structure of the Constitution and 257 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: subvert the rule of law, no fel What does this, 258 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: this story, this case tell us about the relationship between 259 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: the federal government in the States government. Just reading between 260 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: the lines here and the statement from the White House, 261 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: and from what I've read of the former sheriff, it 262 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: seems like there are a lot of people who think 263 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: that he was simply taking a taking the rule of 264 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: law into his own hand. Rightfully, that the federal government 265 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: wasn't doing what it needed to do when it comes 266 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: to protecting the federal the border with Mexico. He was 267 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: doing that. But what does this say about the state 268 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: of that relationship between states and the US federal government. Well, 269 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty badly afraid. Um. In this instance, a state 270 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: of elected official was violating the Constitution. Now, he may 271 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: have been doing it because he thought that the federal 272 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: government needed to do more, but that the federal court 273 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: which convicted him and which ordered him not to do 274 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: what he was doing, believe that he had overstepped his bound. 275 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: If he was just enforcing federal law, he would not 276 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: have been convicted. Our pile would not have been convicted 277 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: of contempt of court. This is not about him acting 278 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: in a way that the federal court didn't want to 279 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: state official that this was about our pio acting in 280 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: a way that no official connect under the constitution. Um. 281 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: It's also true that in principle our Pio could still 282 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: be charged under state law or convective contempts under state law, 283 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: and if that happens, the President would not actually have 284 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: been able to pardon him at all. So this is 285 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: exact an instance of the president intervening as is his 286 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: power to do over the federal courts. And the federal 287 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: courts we're doing what they're empowered to do by the 288 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: fourteen Amendment of the Constitution, namely, supervised state officials and 289 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: make sure they're not violating the Constitution under color of law, 290 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: which is exactly what our pile was doing. No, fellmen, 291 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: what does this tell you about this president's attitude toward 292 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: presidential pardons. I can look back at all of the 293 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: pardons that President Obama made, a lot of them centered 294 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: on drug cases in particular. Um, there are a lot 295 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: of people here wondering a sort of what lessons we 296 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: can draw from this particular pardon, how it might be 297 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: used to say in the Russian investigation, how the president 298 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: might use his power of pardon, and going forward, what 299 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: lessons can you draw. Well, I'm warious of the interpretation 300 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: that says that this is some sort of a message 301 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: with specifically with respect to the Russian investigation. Um. What 302 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: I think is very clear here is that the president 303 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: ignored the usual process that other presidents have in the 304 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: past gone through before they chose to make a pardon. 305 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: There's a special part in office and the partner of justice. 306 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: It was ignored here. Ordinarily, appeals have to be exhausted. 307 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: That was not the case here. Ordinarily it just goes 308 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: to a complex and complete vetting process before any pardon 309 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: is issued. I'm not saying that every past part in 310 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: is one that I would agree with, but in this instance, 311 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: the president circumvented those usual processutes. It also happened early 312 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: in his term rather than late in his term, a 313 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: way of saying, essentially, I don't care what people think 314 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: about this. I'm going to do it on my own. 315 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: So if nothing else, this communicates the president thinks that 316 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: it's within his authority and that he conclearely get away 317 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: with partnering people whenever he wants, and probably however he 318 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: wants to suggests the willingness to be quick with the 319 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: partning power, but no, so he's advising the president actually 320 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: on all matters of law and constitutional powers. Are they 321 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: ill advising him or is the President just ignoring it? Well, 322 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: in this instance, Um, the usual process that would have 323 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: been created to the Department of Justice through the Partner Office, 324 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: we've been told was not followed at all. So the 325 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: strong suggestion is that the procedures that are ordinarily in 326 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: place to advise the president simply were ignored and we're 327 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: not followed. Often the White House Council's office would also 328 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: be involved in the pardon process, and we haven't been 329 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: told publicly whether in fact the White House Council was 330 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: involved in this process or not. Now again, constitutionally, the 331 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: president doesn't have to listen to anybody. He can pardon 332 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: whomever he chooses to pardon. Um. But those procedures have 333 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: been put in place by previous administrations with the goal 334 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: of rationalizing the process and not making a pardon look 335 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: like it violates the basic principle of legality, which I 336 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: think this pardon does look like. David Guray in New York, 337 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: Francy Laqua in London, Tom Keen is off to damn 338 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: looking at news out of Berkeley, California. Big protests yesterday 339 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: there in Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park, a 340 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: big confrontation between antifa and anti fascist anarchist protesters and 341 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: others who were gathered there. Around two thousand people were 342 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: gathered in that park yesterday, and I just wanted to 343 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: bring in our our guests. No Felton, who's a law 344 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: professor at Harvard Law, of course, columns from Bloomberview to 345 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: talk a bit about a free speech and light of 346 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: the protests that we've seen here, in light of the 347 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: protests from both sides that we've seen here over these 348 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: last few weeks, of course, most paramount being in Charlessville. 349 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: When you look at history and how we deal with 350 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: free speech, no matter how how violent is what have 351 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: you been thinking about over these last few weeks now, Well, 352 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: I think there's a whole bunch of really fascinating and 353 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: subtle issues. The most important one is that we need 354 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: to keep on distinguishing two different things. We need to 355 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: distinguished peaceful protests, which is protected by the First Amendment 356 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: and should be protected by the First Amendment, no matter 357 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: how vile the content is, from violent incitement, which is 358 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: when you take an action that you know is likely 359 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: to cause an imminence incitement to violence, and is actually 360 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: causing that, not just that you know it's going to 361 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: cause that, but it isn't that going to cause that. 362 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: The police have every right to prevent the ladder from happening. 363 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: So if there are a group that are confronting each other, 364 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: and there are people trying to provoke violence, then the 365 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: police are wholly within their rights, and indeed, I would 366 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: say their responsibilities to stand in between and to separate 367 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: people and to make sure that violence doesn't break out. 368 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: We don't really think about it this way, but without 369 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: the police protecting us against the violence, the free speech 370 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: right that we have becomes pretty empty. And so we 371 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: actually need both components. We need the order on the 372 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: streets in ordering sure that our free speech rights are protected. 373 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 1: It strikes strikes me as we talk about this, as 374 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,239 Speaker 1: we talk about the Ropio case as well, the the 375 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: a c l U is at the center of both 376 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: of these these stories. Of course, the a c l 377 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: U has said it's now going to represent hate groups 378 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: that march with with firearms. What do you make of 379 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: that decision? There? Obviously, the a c l U has 380 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: taken heat, as it often does from both sides here 381 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: for for a decision like that one, Yeah, I mean, 382 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: I think the needs to and I think it's trying, 383 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: for better or worse, to carve out a space that 384 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: protects peaceful speech. But that doesn't open the door to 385 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: armed groups marching in what looks like ordinary military formation, 386 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: because when that happens, those people aren't really potentially dominating 387 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: the streets, potentially either provoking violence or intimidating other people. 388 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: And there you have the confluence of two different rights. 389 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: You have a Second Amendment right to bear arms and 390 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: a First Amendment right to speak and to associate. So 391 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: in theurious sounds like what should be fine. If you 392 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: can march peacefully, that's fine. If you can carry weapons peacefully, 393 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: then that should be fine. But if you actually do 394 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: both together, then at some point you cease to be 395 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: a peaceful marcher and you actually become a militia that's 396 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: challenging the authority of the police, and that I think 397 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: the law does not protect. And the was trying to find, 398 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: I think a way to to weigh in there. It's 399 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: hard to the sell you because traditionally their position has 400 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: been absolutists. They have gone the most extreme free speech 401 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: positions possible. You know. You remember they actually supported what 402 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: became the Supreme Courts holding in the Citizens United case, 403 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 1: which maximize corporate free speech. So traditionally they've been absolutists. 404 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: Here they're pulling back from that a little bit, probably 405 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: in the wake of Charlotteville and other other recent events. 406 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: But don't know what you're arguing is that basically, to 407 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: almost avoid a situation where too many radicals, you know, 408 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: contribute to destabilization, you just need a much bigger so 409 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: you protect free speech, but you have a much bigger 410 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: police force. Is that right, Yeah, you need a bigger 411 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: police force. Sometimes you need to assign different groups different 412 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: locations to march. In theory, it's great to be able 413 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: to say, well, we can march wherever we want. But 414 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: if you have a large group of anti fascist protesters 415 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: in a large group of you know, not your white 416 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: supremacist protesters, it's constitutionally perrinsipal to the police to say 417 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: you're not marching right in front of each other. You 418 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: have to be separated by you know, thus in such 419 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: a distance, and we're gonna put this group of you here. 420 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: We're gonna put the scoop of you there. And of 421 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 1: course it's always controversial, and the police do that much 422 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: in the way. It was controversial when the police isolated 423 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: protesters at the Democratic and Republican national conventions in recent years, 424 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: moving them away from the convention location. But the police 425 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: are justified in specifying time, place, and manner of speech 426 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: when it's necessary for safety and security. So you also 427 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: need to keep people apart from each other. And last, 428 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: but not least, the police have to be very well 429 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: trained so that they know the difference between peaceful speaking 430 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: and potentially violence provocation. You can't just expect police intuitively 431 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: to be able to do that. They need to be 432 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: trained in order to make sure that free speech is 433 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: protected while class the order is preserved. No, always great 434 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: to speak with you, Thank you very much being so 435 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: generous with your time here on this Monday morning. Now 436 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: a film and ne Felix Frankford, the professor of law 437 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: at Harvard Law School, column is for Bloomberg View, writing 438 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: prolifically and importantly for Bloomberg View. Do check out his columns. 439 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: I'll tweet his latest on Joe or Pio. This is 440 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg surveillance on Bloombergradio, David Gura and Francine Lack with 441 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: Tom keene is off today m h now speaking in 442 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: an interview with Bloomberg and Kathyen Hayes and Jackson Hall. 443 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: Governor Krota said the BJS yield curving control program has 444 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: been working quite well. That he was talking about the 445 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: fact that he also needs to have more very accomgnative 446 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: monetary policy. He warned that his inflation target remains distant 447 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: and that the current pace of growth looks unsustainable. Here 448 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: is Governor Kruder. Four percent grows is excellent, but we 449 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: don't think four percent grows can be sustained. Around to 450 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: pocent grows is likely, and that this amount of growth 451 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,479 Speaker 1: infringel rate to gradually crime up towards the two percent. 452 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: That was Governor Kroda speaking to our Kathy Hayes over 453 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Now, let's bring in Alice Rivlini 454 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: is former FED Vice chair from our DC studios. Mr Ryvelin, 455 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joy in us today. What 456 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: did you make of Jackson Hole? It was rather uneventful 457 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: compared to previous you know, Jackson Hole, Wyoming forums, and 458 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: yet we learned a little bit more about how they 459 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: see risk, yes, and I thought we learned actually quite 460 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: a lot. I thought that Janet Yellen's speech focused on 461 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: exactly the right topic. She hardly mentioned meant monetary policy 462 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: at all, which I thought was appropriate. She mentioned and 463 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: discussed at considerable length the case for UH continued vigilance 464 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: about instability in the financial markets, and particularly the risks 465 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: of rolling back the Dodd Frank Act, which she quite 466 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: persuasively pointed out has made our financial system a lot 467 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: safer and less subject to the kind of turmoil that 468 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: we are instant two thousand eight, Alice Rivelin, what is 469 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: the one thing that actually Governor Croda has not said? 470 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: I guess yet reading between the lines, he's worried about 471 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: the FED, isn't he? Well, he may be worried about 472 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: the FED, but I think he's more worried about the 473 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: Japanese economy, which is UH persistently deflationary. That's been the 474 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: same story for UH for many, many years, and uh uh, 475 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: I think that has got to be his major concern. Alice, 476 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: great to speak with you here on this this Monday morning. 477 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: I wonder if we could shift our attention to Europe 478 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: a little bit is what we heard from Mario, drawing 479 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: you the president of the ECB. There was some speculation 480 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: that he might try to job own the euro a 481 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: little bit, talk it down. He didn't do that. What 482 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: did you make of what what he had to say 483 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: and what do you make of the situation he faces 484 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: on the European continent right now? Well, he faces a 485 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: more difficult situation, I think than than Janet Yellen does UH, 486 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: in part because he doesn't have a cohesive country. He's 487 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: got a whole group of economies that are UH not 488 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: entirely in sync, and that's always very, very difficult. But 489 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: I thought he, like Yellen, made the right speech for 490 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: Jackson Hall, pointing out that the big threat was not 491 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: from UH inflation, it was from the possibility of trade 492 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: war or deteriorating UH regulatory cooperation among the major countries 493 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: on the issue of of regulation. Will come back and 494 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more more about this, but just 495 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: summarize stories, if you would, what what Yellen's thinking is 496 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: on on bank regulation at this point. She's making a 497 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: pretty forceful defense for some of the regulations have been implemented. 498 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: But she also spoke of it as sort of a 499 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: plastic thing, right that it's it's it's it's useful to 500 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: reevaluate her to constantly evaluate the efficacy of regulations. Yes, 501 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: and I think she's absolutely right about that. We put 502 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: some much stronger regular sations in place after two thousand 503 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: and eight. Uh, but uh, and they seem to be working, 504 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: but we haven't tested them yet. And uh. What she 505 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: was warning against was wholesale rolling back, although she did 506 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: stress and she's right that you have to keep reevaluating regulations. 507 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: There's no such thing as a permanent regulatory regime. You 508 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: have to adjust, and particularly you have to make sure 509 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: that the costs of the regulation to the financial sector 510 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: isn't excessive. But she made that point. All right, Alice, 511 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Alice really in there. The former 512 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: FED Vice chair stays with us. We'll be talking to 513 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: her a little bit more about. I guess the possible 514 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: currency war is what we made Also of the rest 515 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: of the FMC members we talked to. We had two 516 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: Federal Reserve officials talking to her, Michael McKee also taking 517 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: opposite sides of I guess David, this central bank ongoing 518 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: debate right about how you were bond to disappointingly low inflation. 519 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: Of course, policy makers gathered in the at Jackson Hole 520 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,239 Speaker 1: at the annual symposium. We're pretty tame. Three years ago 521 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: we had Mario Droggi saying, you know, he'll do whatever 522 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: it takes and to actually put a number on the 523 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: balance sheet. This time we're in a different move. We 524 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: did hear from Kansas City Fed President Estra George saying 525 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: that it will all depend on whether the economic data 526 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: in the US will hold up, on whether there is 527 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: another opportunity or not to raise interest rates again in 528 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen. So we'll talk more about Jackson 529 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: Hole and we'll talk dollar dynamics. David Gurray in New 530 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: York Francy Lackway in London were joined by Alice Rivlin 531 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: or Bloomberg Studios in Washington, d C. She's former vice 532 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: chair of the Federal Reserve, now a senior fellow at 533 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: the Brookings Institution. And Alice, I hope I'm not telling 534 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: tales out of school when I said, the last time 535 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: I saw you in Washington, you said the media tends 536 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: to focus too much on monetary policy and not enough 537 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: on regulatory policies. So let's continue talking about it, if if, 538 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: if we could hear we're looking at a FED that 539 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: could be radically changed from a personnel perspective, and I 540 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: wonder what that could pretend for for its regulatory responsibilities. 541 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: Do you see them shifting here over these next a 542 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: few months, a few years. Well, I think there's a 543 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: risk that the administration and the Congress will roll back 544 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: regulatory financial regulation more than I and Janet Yellen think 545 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: is wise. That was the burden of her speech. Be 546 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: very careful. It's the big threat to the stability of 547 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: the US economy is that we have another two thousand 548 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: and eight. We don't want that to happen. Uh, So 549 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: be very careful about deregulation. Now. I'm not sure that 550 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: the President and many of the Republican majority in Congress 551 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: agree with that message, and they may try to roll 552 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: back regulation the including putting a much more deregulatory person 553 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: at at the FED. How much more regulatory person at 554 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: the FED? I wonder, as we have this conversation about 555 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: personnel who might lead the FED, who might be in 556 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: these jobs, how much an academic background matters you have? One? 557 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: Of course, Jennet Yellen has one. Ben Bernanki had one 558 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: as well. There's there's speculation that the next appointing might 559 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: not come from that background, might be somebody from the 560 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: world of business with oh, just a b a degree 561 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: from from Does that matter to you? Do you think 562 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: that makes the difference whether or not somebody has the 563 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: academic background. Uh? Not necessarily. It would depend who it was. 564 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: The tradition of having a PhD in economics is UH 565 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: is pretty strong at the FED. But market experience and 566 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: financial sector experience is extremely important. Uh. The real criterion 567 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: I would think is, UH, is this person really familiar 568 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: with how the economy works and how markets work and 569 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: committed both to a sensible monetary policy and UH to 570 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: UH keeping us safe from another financial crisis? All right, Alice, 571 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: we're beating around the bush here. It's Gary Cone the 572 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: right person for FED. Oh, I'm not gonna do I'm 573 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: not going to endorse very nice try Okay, But but 574 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: would a former banker be the kind of profile that 575 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: could be good for the FED? Well, it would depend 576 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 1: who it was, But I think you could find somebody 577 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: from the financial sector who would do a very good job. 578 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be an academic PhD. Economist. Although 579 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: I think we were extremely fortunate, uh in the crisis 580 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight to have Ben Bernankee at 581 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: the HELM, because not only was he a very highly 582 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: qualified academic, but he was an expert on what they 583 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: did wrong in the nineteen thirties and very determined not 584 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: to do that again. We got changed change position here 585 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 1: a little bit. Um. You know, I know that when 586 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: there's a big storm like the one that we're seeing 587 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: in Texas, the Federal Reserve is on alert. Of course, 588 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: the Federals bears some responsibility for the banking system here 589 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: in the US. Of course, what does the FED do 590 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: when there's something like this, when people may have difficulty 591 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: getting to banks or just banking normally? This is this 592 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: is part of the Fed's responsibility as well. Oh absolutely, 593 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: And the FED communicates with the banking and financial sector 594 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,239 Speaker 1: that it stands ready uh to help and that they 595 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: shouldn't worry about liquidity. They should uh be as helpful 596 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: to their clients as they possibly can be. Of course, 597 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: we're the two time director of the Congressional Budget Office, 598 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: and let me ask you a bit about sort of 599 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: the challenges that lawmakers face when they get to Washington. 600 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: Uh in just over I guess maybe a littless than 601 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: the webs that just overweight, little less that a week 602 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: is we're on the press fas of reaching September. Uh 603 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: do do you do you foresee there being real difficulties 604 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: here passing some sort of ending bill in time to 605 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,719 Speaker 1: avert a government shutdown. How worried are you about that? 606 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 1: And of course about the reaching the dead ceiling and 607 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: not seeing that raised in time to meet the government's obligations. 608 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm medium worried. I think cooler heads may prevail and 609 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: we will probably get a short term continuing resolution as 610 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: they call it, to keep the government funded past the 611 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: end of the fiscal year so that they can then 612 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: uh make some more serious decisions in November, perhaps even 613 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: into December. That seems to me the most likely. I 614 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: don't expect that we will have a government shut down, 615 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: but we might. And the President is still threatening if 616 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: he doesn't get his border wall to close down the government. 617 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: I hope that doesn't happen on the death ceiling. I 618 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: really hope that Secretary Venution and others can convince the 619 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: Congress and the President that it would be just terribly 620 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: stupid for Uh, the United States to even flirt with 621 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: a debt crisis. We don't need to do that. We 622 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,719 Speaker 1: should raise the debt ceiling as much as is necessary 623 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: to accommodate the spending and revenues that have already been voted. 624 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: How did the FED look at this risk? We heard 625 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: from billionaire head fund manager Rate Dalio that you know 626 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: it's time to off float risk and this is mainly 627 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: because of what's happening in Washington. Well, uh, yes, I 628 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: mean the FED looks at it nervously as as we 629 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: as we all do. But I don't think the FED 630 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: has a real role. These are of fiscal matters to 631 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: be decided between the President and the Congress as to uh, 632 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: when we fund the government adequately and when we raised 633 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: the dead ceiling. The FED can stand on the side 634 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: and look nervous. But that's about all I can do. Right. 635 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: But by looking nervous, would they be right for examply, 636 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: for example, in delaying a hike because of this new 637 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: politic uncertainty? Well they might, um, but the economy itself 638 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: looks pretty strong, and uh, inflation, while not up to 639 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: the two percent target, isn't doing isn't plummeting? Uh. So, Um, 640 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: I think that will be the main things on their mind. Uh. 641 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: They might be a little more cautious because of the 642 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: turmoil and the Congress, but I would expect that mostly 643 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: the conversation would be about is the economy strong enough 644 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: for us to keep on the track that we'd like 645 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: to be on, really get back to a more normal 646 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: interest rate. You know, the FT hasn't been shy about 647 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: saying it's not going to speculate what the federal government's 648 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: going to do when it comes to tax reformer, fiscal policy, 649 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: regulatory reform, all of that, but how much just to 650 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: complicate things, the FET has taken some criticism for how 651 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: it forecasts, how well it forecasts. Give us a sense 652 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: of just the the complexity infused into that process. By 653 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: having so much uncertainty in Washington right now, well they 654 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:31,720 Speaker 1: starting to have to take it into account. Uh. But um, 655 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 1: that's a question without an answer really. Uh, the everybody 656 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: is a little nervous that turmoil in Washington, or hurricanes 657 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,959 Speaker 1: on the Gulf Coast or other sources of uncertainty may 658 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: may be there. But you make your best forecasts and 659 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: stick and go with it. Just lastly, here does Washington 660 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: is there more uncertain than there has been? Which are 661 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: thinking about the death feeling again? You and I have 662 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: talked about it, you know eight out of the nine 663 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: last years, it feels like does this time feel different 664 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: to you in Washington? Yes, I think it does feel different, 665 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: and it's largely because we have a quite inexperienced and 666 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: unpredictable president. We don't know what Donald Trump thinks about 667 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling or other things, and how much he 668 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: is willing to risk chaos to get some of the 669 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,800 Speaker 1: things that he cares deeply about, like the border wall. Alice, 670 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: great to speak with you always. Thank you very much 671 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: being so generous with your time this morning. Alice Freeland, 672 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: Senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, former vice chair the 673 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: Fed Reserve. Because I said, two time Director of the 674 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: Congressional Budget Office, joining us from studios in Washington, d C. 675 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: This morning. This is Bloomberg Surveillance. David Garray in New York, 676 00:36:49,760 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: Francy Lapwa in London. Tom Keane is off today. Big 677 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: news that here in the U. S as well, we 678 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: continue to watch what's unfolding in Texas and pleasure now 679 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: to be joined by James Leewitt, who is a former 680 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: director of FEMA. He joins us on our phone lines. 681 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: Great to have you with us as all of this 682 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: contends to unfold. As I say this, this terrible storm 683 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: in Texas. What are you watching for when it comes 684 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: to government response? In other words, how should we be 685 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: assessing the degree which things are going apace? At Mr? Ware? Well, 686 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: I think the you know, the President appointed Brock Long 687 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: as administrator FEMA, who's a farmer state director of the 688 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: Merchants Management whose is very experienced, very capable, and I 689 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: think he'll be leading FEMA extremely well. And uh in 690 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,720 Speaker 1: all the eight years I was at FEMA and female 691 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: employees are very dedicating about what they do, and so 692 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 1: I think that will go well as supporting the state 693 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: and local governments and that and I think the President 694 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: has done everything right so far. You know, he made 695 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: the Decorate disaster declaration Friday and um and that was 696 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: very important for the state and locals to know that 697 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: there's a lot of these costs go and reimbursable. And 698 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: I think the trip that he's making down to Texas 699 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: tomorrow is important just to show the people that the 700 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 1: federal government is there behind them and will be there 701 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: for the long haul. I think it would be important 702 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: that he meet with the governor and local officials as 703 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: much as he can without disrupting the response. But also 704 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: I think it's important that he if he can, reach 705 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: out into where shelter is and let those people know 706 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: and give them hope, because right now, you know, they're devastated, 707 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,439 Speaker 1: They've lost everything they've worked for all their life, and 708 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: this could come down as the costliest catastrophic event we've 709 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: seen in the United States. Just understand what FEMA is 710 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: doing at this point. As I said that, the storm 711 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: is still raging, it's pouring rain across Houston the surrounding area. 712 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: There's a there's a tremendous amount of flooding here. What 713 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: what at this point is FEMA, UH and and all 714 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: the groups that's working with What are they doing at 715 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: this point. Well, primarily FEMA's role right now is to 716 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: be responsive to state local government and what resources they 717 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,720 Speaker 1: request and the team you know as the full federal 718 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: government behind them that they coordinate all those resources. So 719 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: it's there right now and in the role of responding 720 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: with those resources, supporting the state and local governments and 721 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: what their needs are. And then after this that is 722 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: the response is finished in lives have saved and you 723 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: get into the recovery side of it, then FEMAL will 724 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: take the more prominent role, particularly in the public assistant 725 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: side as well as the individual assistant side and uh 726 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: and so then you know, after they get all the 727 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: assessments done, after this water goes down, and then what's 728 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: going to be important is is what the governor going 729 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: to ask for? You know, I would ask for reimbursable 730 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: costs and be response for how long that takes, and 731 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: then whatever the cost share will be to state and 732 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: local governments after that, which could be or it could 733 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: be SETI if I I would definitely ask for uh. Mr, Well, 734 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: thank you very much for the time. I hope we 735 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: can check in with you a little later this week. 736 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: Is so we continue to watch the response to the 737 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 1: tropical storm over Texas. Right now, it's Change le w 738 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: former director of FEMA, joining us on our phone lines. 739 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and 740 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast 741 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene. David 742 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: Gura is at David Gura before the podcast. You can 743 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio.