1
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: Ruby.

2
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,039
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Leah Palmery.

3
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:10,480
Speaker 1: And I'm Matt Stillo.

4
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,040
Speaker 2: Welcome to Grown Up Stuff. We're your hosts of this

5
00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 2: podcast because that's our job and no matter what your

6
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 2: job is. Today we're going to learn about how we

7
00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 2: can make sure everyone knows you're amazing at it, including yourself.

8
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 1: Everyone does need to know, and we're going to learn

9
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,760
Speaker 1: the right way to let them know, including building your

10
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 1: own confidence in the workplace to be your best self

11
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,199
Speaker 1: at any stage of your career that's right.

12
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,320
Speaker 2: Today we're speaking with Jessica Chen, who's a communications expert,

13
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 2: the host of the podcast Communicating Confidently, and the author

14
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 2: of Smart Not Loud, How to Get Noticed at Work

15
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,559
Speaker 2: for all the right reasons. She's going to help us

16
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: figure out how to best advocate for ourselves at work.

17
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,280
Speaker 1: So this means tips for negotiating your salary, asking for

18
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 1: a raise, and not just being aware of the words

19
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,240
Speaker 1: you use, but the way in which you use them.

20
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: And let's just say, I think we all know a

21
00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: few people who could use this episode.

22
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,400
Speaker 2: Yes we do, Matt, and we didn't get Jessica's take

23
00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 2: on this, but I wonder if you can just drop

24
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 2: a link to this episode in your work slack and

25
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,600
Speaker 2: everyone will get the message that they need to listen

26
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 2: and implement her tips.

27
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see how that goes.

28
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,319
Speaker 2: Okay, try and report back, okay, because I need to know.

29
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,839
Speaker 2: But spoiler alert, Matt, I think maybe you'll be adding

30
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 2: that to your yay folder.

31
00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 1: We'll see. But to learn more about what the yay

32
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,160
Speaker 1: folder is and so much more about crushing it in

33
00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 1: the workplace, here's Jessica Chen. Well.

34
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,560
Speaker 3: Well, hi everyone. My name is Jessica Chen, and I'm

35
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 3: the author of the book Smart Not Loud, How to

36
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,320
Speaker 3: Get noticed at work for all the right reasons. I'm

37
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 3: also the founder of a communications training company called soul

38
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,840
Speaker 3: Casts Media. But prior to all of that, I used

39
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 3: to be a television journalist, so I worked at ABC,

40
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 3: NBC all in different parts of the country. And my

41
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 3: passion for teaching people communications is I just want people

42
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,160
Speaker 3: to feel confident in how they communicate and express themselves.

43
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 1: So important and so needed, very much lack of confidence

44
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: in the country, wouldn't you say.

45
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,640
Speaker 3: More or less? Yes, I think all of us can

46
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 3: use a little bit more confidence anywhere everywhere.

47
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,960
Speaker 1: I apologize for everything. Yeah, that's mainly what I do

48
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 1: is I'm just sorry all the time. But I agree.

49
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,680
Speaker 1: I think that when people are starting their careers, the

50
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 1: confidence then can be difficult, right because you're in a

51
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 1: new environment, new boss, new everything, and you're kind of

52
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 1: like a new dog in a new house. Right, You're like,

53
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 1: what are the rules? When can my personality shine? You know?

54
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,960
Speaker 1: And so first question to throw at you, what are

55
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 1: some of the biggest barriers that prevent people from you know,

56
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 1: maybe even not necessarily advocating, but like speaking of for themselves,

57
00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 1: especially in a new job, and any extra special tips

58
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 1: for the introverts and the shy people.

59
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,400
Speaker 3: Yes, so I love talking about communications. But the reason

60
00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 3: why is because I feel like a lot of times

61
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,640
Speaker 3: we can walk into a new environment, just like you said, Matt,

62
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 3: and it's kind of like we look around and then

63
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 3: we start doubting ourselves. We're like, should I say that?

64
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,119
Speaker 3: Should I not say that? Is it gonna sound silly?

65
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,360
Speaker 3: Is it gonna sound dumb? Right, We're starting to create

66
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,560
Speaker 3: this narrative in our own head where ultimately it mutes

67
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,960
Speaker 3: ourselves from saying anything at all. And I will tell

68
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 3: you I used to be one of those people. In fact,

69
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 3: I remember in my early journalism days, we would have

70
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,080
Speaker 3: our editorial meetings where we would be talking about the

71
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 3: stories we would cover, and all of us reporters we

72
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,880
Speaker 3: would have to come in and pitch our stories. And

73
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 3: I remember I would be sitting in these meetings and

74
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 3: I'd be looking around to all my other colleagues, who

75
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 3: I thought were so smart, so amazing, and I would

76
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 3: feel like, gosh, my ideas are just not as good

77
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,839
Speaker 3: as theirs. But over time I realized it wasn't that

78
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,680
Speaker 3: it wasn't as good. It was that I was creating

79
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 3: this dialogue in my own head, which caused me to

80
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 3: not say what I actually wanted to say. You know,

81
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 3: I looked around and I would always see who were

82
00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 3: the people that always got their ideas heard, Who are

83
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,240
Speaker 3: the people that always got on the big projects. They

84
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 3: were the ones that always spoke with conviction. It wasn't

85
00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 3: that their idea was better. It was that whatever it

86
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 3: was that they were saying, they believed it, they wanted it.

87
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,680
Speaker 3: And I always say that energy carries and that's what

88
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,279
Speaker 3: I always talk to people about. It's that energy and

89
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,520
Speaker 3: that belief. And most of the time, if you're excited,

90
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 3: people are going to be excited to so is.

91
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,520
Speaker 2: There something that you wish at that point in your

92
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 2: career that somebody had told you, because we really want

93
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 2: to make sure people that are just starting out in

94
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,280
Speaker 2: their careers are armed with this that they know here

95
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,120
Speaker 2: are the things that I should be working on when

96
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 2: it comes to speaking up for myself. And on top

97
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,839
Speaker 2: of that too, this is not something that is just

98
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 2: established at the beginning of your career, but throughout your career.

99
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 2: So are there other things tied to that advice as well, that,

100
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 2: like you've learned over the years and you think are

101
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,520
Speaker 2: important for people to continue to use to build that muscle.

102
00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 3: Yes, So I think there's multiple ways in how we

103
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 3: can look at this. So the first one is ourselves

104
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 3: and the other one is the environment that we're in.

105
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 3: And I say environment in the sense, where are you

106
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 3: in an environment where people are encouraging you to share

107
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,039
Speaker 3: what's on your mind, Because we certainly know of things

108
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 3: like psychological safety, right, you might have a terrible boss

109
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,880
Speaker 3: who might constantly make you feel uncomfortable. So that's one part,

110
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 3: which we'll talk about later. But the thing that I

111
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 3: want to talk about first is the personality part. And

112
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 3: you mentioned the word introvert, and I'm an introvert myself,

113
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 3: and people are like, how can you be an introvert

114
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,160
Speaker 3: if you teach communication? And I think it's because I

115
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 3: understand the struggle for a lot of us introverts. I

116
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 3: can talk about this. So when I first started working,

117
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 3: I mentioned speaking was really hard for me. And part

118
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,719
Speaker 3: of it is my personality because I tend to like

119
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,680
Speaker 3: to think things through. I tend to want to be

120
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,400
Speaker 3: more cautious before I say what's on my mind. But

121
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it was also the way

122
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,400
Speaker 3: I was raised to tell you the truth. So I

123
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 3: grew up in a pretty conservative environment where my parents

124
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,719
Speaker 3: were all about, hey, Jessica, there's only a few things

125
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,720
Speaker 3: you gotta do. You gotta work card, you got to

126
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,599
Speaker 3: study hard and try not to, you know, piss people

127
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,600
Speaker 3: off and rock the boat.

128
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:05,000
Speaker 1: Right.

129
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,120
Speaker 3: None of that really encouraged me to feel confident in speaking,

130
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,720
Speaker 3: because in fact, it was always the opposite. It was

131
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 3: about listening, and we know listening is very important, but

132
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,280
Speaker 3: it was almost listening to the fact where you had

133
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 3: to be deferential, meaning you had to be agreeable, meaning

134
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,760
Speaker 3: you almost had to minimize yourself to make other people

135
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,960
Speaker 3: feel better. And I remember even sometimes I would find

136
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,279
Speaker 3: myself sitting in meetings and I would be so hyper

137
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,480
Speaker 3: focused on things like, oh, they're more experienced than me,

138
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 3: therefore they must know more than me. I think that's

139
00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 3: a very common thing. We call it power distance, where

140
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,599
Speaker 3: you walk into a corporate environment and you see the

141
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,719
Speaker 3: senior VP and you're just like, oh, I'm just like,

142
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 3: you know, two or three years into my career, can

143
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 3: I really say what's on my mind? Or am I

144
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 3: just supposed to sit here? And I think that power

145
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,160
Speaker 3: distance can also make us feel sometimes quite uncomfortable. So

146
00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 3: that's one thing where we are creating almost this dis

147
00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,479
Speaker 3: ourselves between feeling like, hey, we're in this room for

148
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 3: a reason, and yes, I might be let's say, more junior,

149
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean my opinions aren't valued. One other

150
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,520
Speaker 3: thing I will say is I work with a lot

151
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 3: of very smart people who tend to want to be perfect.

152
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 3: They want everything to be perfect before they say something.

153
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 3: They want to make sure it's always valuable. And I

154
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,679
Speaker 3: think that's fantastic. But what I always say is what's

155
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 3: valuable is actually quite subjective. You might think what's valuable

156
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 3: has to be something new, but what's valuable can be

157
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 3: you asking a question. It can be you reiterating what

158
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,560
Speaker 3: somebody else said, it can be you acknowledging somebody else

159
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,680
Speaker 3: on the team. But the fact is you saying something

160
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,200
Speaker 3: in that meeting is already half the battle in you

161
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 3: building visibility. And I want people to really understand that,

162
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,440
Speaker 3: especially for people who tend to be more quiet, because

163
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 3: people hearing your voice is so incredibly important.

164
00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 2: I'm glad you mentioned about the power distance thing too,

165
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 2: because I feel like there are so many companies that

166
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 2: I where you sit in these meetings and they will say, well,

167
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 2: what is gen Z into? And so if you are

168
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,320
Speaker 2: gen Z, say what you're into, because like they do

169
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,800
Speaker 2: want the input from these young people that they are

170
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,000
Speaker 2: trying to target. And so it's like, you know, still

171
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,240
Speaker 2: be respectful and professional, but like your opinion and what

172
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,200
Speaker 2: you're seeing online and what you're into and your behaviors.

173
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 2: There's so many companies trying to tap into that. You

174
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 2: have that experience just by being you and being your

175
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 2: age exactly.

176
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 3: And this is what I talk about in terms of

177
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 3: when you're in these meetings. There's a difference between active

178
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 3: listening and passive listening. So passive listening is exactly what

179
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,440
Speaker 3: you think it's like you're sitting in that meeting, but

180
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 3: you really have no intention of actually saying something in

181
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,560
Speaker 3: that meeting. But active listening is where you're listening to cues.

182
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:47,319
Speaker 3: People actually are always throwing cues of when, hey, this

183
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,280
Speaker 3: is my opportune time to say something. So Leah, you

184
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 3: said when people are talking about gen z and you're like,

185
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,880
Speaker 3: wait a second, I know something about this. This is

186
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 3: my time. This is where you jump in. It's not

187
00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,080
Speaker 3: about just kind of taking a back seat. It's like,

188
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,319
Speaker 3: you know something, you got to say something.

189
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: So what can people do to really, like, you know,

190
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 1: kind of reclaim that. How would you encourage people to

191
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 1: push past those feelings that the power distance that you

192
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,240
Speaker 1: were talking about and actually, like Garner, the wherewithal to

193
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,559
Speaker 1: like actually speak up.

194
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 3: So there's a few tips. When people tend to feel

195
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,800
Speaker 3: very intimidated about speaking up, I tend to say, if

196
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,600
Speaker 3: you can speak up earlier in a meeting, it's better

197
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,240
Speaker 3: than speaking up later. And the reason why is because

198
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,559
Speaker 3: oftentimes when we sit in this meeting, five minutes go by,

199
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 3: ten minutes go by, fifteen minutes go by, and all

200
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,600
Speaker 3: of a sudden, the meeting's over and you never said

201
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,040
Speaker 3: a thing. There's something really powerful about being early and

202
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 3: saying something. And again it doesn't have to be that

203
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,840
Speaker 3: brilliant fireworks of an idea. It can be just you

204
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,280
Speaker 3: saying something. But the idea is using your voice early

205
00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 3: in a meeting gets you comfortable to use it later

206
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,720
Speaker 3: on in a meeting. So I think that's a huge

207
00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 3: barrier that once we can overcome that early on, it

208
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,800
Speaker 3: makes it easier to then kind of be and feel

209
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,439
Speaker 3: like you're a part of the comment. And one of

210
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 3: the things I always say is, of course being in

211
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 3: an environment where you are encouraged to speak up, where

212
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 3: you're encouraged to share your idea, is so important. But

213
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,680
Speaker 3: if you feel like people are not giving you that chance,

214
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 3: then learning the communication skills to find and figure out

215
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 3: how to chime in. And there's actually some tips in

216
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 3: the book that I talk about, but like finding those

217
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,600
Speaker 3: ways to chime in and add your thoughts, add your

218
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,800
Speaker 3: two cents is really important. Let me just say, even

219
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 3: saying simple things like the person's name, so you're signaling

220
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 3: to the other person like, hey, I have an idea,

221
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 3: it's acknowledging, and acknowledging is not agreeing, it's just like, hey, Leah,

222
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 3: that was actually a really interesting idea and it made

223
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,719
Speaker 3: me think of A B and C. Right, So it's

224
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 3: like I'm part of the conversation. It's not like I'm

225
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,240
Speaker 3: like bulldozing it in any sort of way.

226
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:50,800
Speaker 1: And then kind of like the flip side of that, right. So,

227
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,640
Speaker 1: like a lot of people worry that like advocating for yourself,

228
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 1: speaking up, saying your mind might make them seem like pushy, overbearing.

229
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,600
Speaker 1: What is your way to like reframe that mindset?

230
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 3: I love that question, Matt, because a lot of times

231
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,840
Speaker 3: people are like, oh, advocating for yourself can feel very

232
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,360
Speaker 3: selfish sometimes, right, It's like can I even ask for

233
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 3: what I want? Should I even ask for what I want?

234
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,160
Speaker 3: And a lot of times people are very considerate as

235
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 3: well as like, oh, maybe now is not the right time.

236
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 3: So the way I think about advocating for yourself is

237
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 3: very simple. I believe it is a must do, not

238
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 3: a nice to do, because at the end of the day,

239
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 3: you are going to be your best advocate. It's almost

240
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,320
Speaker 3: unfair to put that on your manager to remember you,

241
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,000
Speaker 3: your colleagues, to remember the things that you're doing, whatever

242
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,000
Speaker 3: it is that you care about, you have to be

243
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,160
Speaker 3: your own best cheerleader. So one of the things that

244
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,960
Speaker 3: I wanted to share is in the book, I have

245
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 3: this like framework of okay, so what do you actually do?

246
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,239
Speaker 3: Because I think a lot of us conceptually understand advocating

247
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 3: for yourself. Okay, I get what that means, but what

248
00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 3: and how do I actually do it? So I put

249
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,479
Speaker 3: it into this nice and cute little acronym call ACCT.

250
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,440
Speaker 3: You got to act at work because that's part of

251
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,160
Speaker 3: advocating for yourself. So it stands for a ask. You

252
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,720
Speaker 3: got to ask for what you want. That's part of

253
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,559
Speaker 3: advocating for yourself. But not just asking, it's c circling

254
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,559
Speaker 3: back whatever it is you asked for, you gotta circle back,

255
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,439
Speaker 3: you gotta follow up. Many times, when we put ourselves

256
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,120
Speaker 3: out there, we ask for what we want. We're kind

257
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,200
Speaker 3: of like, okay, good, I ask for what I want

258
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,680
Speaker 3: case clothes, Like I'm done right now. The ball is

259
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,560
Speaker 3: in their court. But the truth is people are busy.

260
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,360
Speaker 3: They got like their own things that they got to do.

261
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,680
Speaker 3: They got their own list of two duos, right You

262
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 3: asking is what I often say, is you just planting

263
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 3: that little seed in that person's head. And plus that

264
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,800
Speaker 3: person might not even have the answer right away, so

265
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,959
Speaker 3: circling back is very important. The third one is also

266
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 3: a C and that stands for celebrate Celebrate your wins.

267
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 3: This is my favorite one because I feel like advocating

268
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,760
Speaker 3: for yourself is part of celebrating the amazing work that

269
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,280
Speaker 3: you're doing, and I often feel like we don't do

270
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 3: that enough. Celebrating can be things like letting other people

271
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 3: know what you did, letting other people know what you're

272
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,720
Speaker 3: excited about. And it doesn't have to be this long

273
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 3: winded answer of like, oh my gosh, look at this

274
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,720
Speaker 3: amazing thing. It's just like maybe you forwarding a message

275
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,160
Speaker 3: to your manager and being like, hey, I'm really excited

276
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 3: about this. You're not expecting them to say anything, but

277
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 3: you're just letting them know that you're happy about this.

278
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 3: The last one is a TEA and it stands for

279
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,520
Speaker 3: turn down request, basically saying no.

280
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 1: How do we do that? Yeah? Yeah, that's something I've

281
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,439
Speaker 1: never learned how to say yes.

282
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,439
Speaker 3: There's a whole section in the book of like how

283
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,000
Speaker 3: do you say no? And there's like a few ways

284
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,720
Speaker 3: to go about it, but the idea is when you

285
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 3: say no, it's not about no it's about giving people options.

286
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 3: Because when you give people options of like, hey, I'm

287
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 3: not the best person for this, but maybe talk to

288
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,480
Speaker 3: this person, maybe look at this right you're letting people

289
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 3: know that you're still trying to help them solve the

290
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,320
Speaker 3: problem that they need help solving. It's just that you're

291
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,760
Speaker 3: not the best person for this right now. And I

292
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,760
Speaker 3: think tone of voice is a huge part of this

293
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 3: as well. But I do believe saying no is part

294
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 3: of advocating for yourself. ACCT I love ACCT love are yeah.

295
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,320
Speaker 2: Love an acronym and love everything that it stands for

296
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,920
Speaker 2: and does and accomplishes as well. On top of that too,

297
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,760
Speaker 2: I think sometimes when we're thinking about advocating for ourselves,

298
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 2: we want to make sure that we're getting the credit.

299
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 2: Like I love being part of a team, but I

300
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 2: also like for my colleague credit. Yeah I bought that

301
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 2: what I did, because also I think it helps build

302
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 2: my own confidence to be like, oh, actually, you know

303
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,320
Speaker 2: what I did this? So what are the ways that

304
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 2: are the best for us to be documenting and communicating

305
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 2: our impact on a team but without seeming so self

306
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 2: promotional to everyone and territorial even too, Like how do

307
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 2: we consistently do this, not just around our performance review

308
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 2: time or around big projects, but just consistently throughout the year,

309
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 2: making sure we're documenting and letting people know like hey,

310
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 2: I snagged this much snails, I got this sponsor, I

311
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,120
Speaker 2: got this person to come speak, or whatever the winds

312
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 2: may be.

313
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,480
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, this is what you.

314
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 2: Need to do.

315
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 3: Leah and Matt. You gotta go and create a yay

316
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 3: folder or yay no truly, like this is what I

317
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 3: talk about. Go into your inbox and create a folder

318
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 3: and call it your yay folder. And anytime you do

319
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 3: some amazing work somebody says great job, congratulations, you secured

320
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 3: that deal or whatever. Right, you take that email and

321
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 3: you drag it into this yay folder so that when

322
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 3: you know performance review comes, or when you are now

323
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 3: asking for what you want, you have evidence and documentation

324
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 3: of the amazing work that you're doing, which gives you

325
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 3: more credibility to ask for what you want. I think

326
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 3: a lot of us like we're busy, Like let's be real,

327
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 3: like we're juggling all these different things, and like you

328
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 3: get a great email and you're like, oh, I feel

329
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 3: good about it. But then you move on to the

330
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 3: next thing, because we got things to do, right, But

331
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 3: I do believe documenting you said, it's Leah like documenting

332
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 3: and putting it into one place is really important so

333
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,120
Speaker 3: that you remember where it is. And Hey, if you're

334
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 3: having a crappy day and you're like, god, why do

335
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 3: people not appreciate the work that I'm doing, you just

336
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 3: open your yay folder and you have all the evidence

337
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 3: there too. That works as well.

338
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 2: I like it for that reason. First, it's just my

339
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 2: own little confidence boost. Okay, so before I even have

340
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 2: a yay folder at a job, and I've just landed

341
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,120
Speaker 2: a job and now it's time for me to do

342
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 2: my salary negotiations, what's the best way to prepare ourselves

343
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 2: for that conversation?

344
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 3: Prepare, Prepare, prepare. And it's not just preparing, it's about

345
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: putting yourself in the other person's shoot, meaning you know

346
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,000
Speaker 3: you're going to ask for that race. So if you're

347
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 3: talking to your manager, think about why they might be hesitant,

348
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 3: think about why they might say no. I want you

349
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 3: to even like write this out on a piece of paper.

350
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,400
Speaker 3: And this is great because you're doing this on your

351
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,960
Speaker 3: own time and you're almost kind of playing devil's advocate

352
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 3: of like why they might be resistant to it, so

353
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,120
Speaker 3: that with every single bullet point that you have, you

354
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 3: write down a reason to counter that, so that when

355
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 3: you're having this conversation with them, and in that conversation

356
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 3: they might not say like no, but you having the

357
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,919
Speaker 3: talking points to address their concerns can help you in

358
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 3: a way like bolster your claim of asking for that race.

359
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 3: And I think, like a lot of times, what I

360
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 3: have realized about what makes people great communicators it is

361
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,720
Speaker 3: really anticipating what other people are going to say and

362
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,880
Speaker 3: knowing what your response is going to be. A lot

363
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 3: of times people walk into a meeting kind of blinded

364
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 3: or just hoping for the best. But I do feel

365
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,399
Speaker 3: like preparing and understanding where the person's coming from, what

366
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 3: are their concerns, what can I do to make their

367
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 3: job easier can help you make your case so much better.

368
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 1: I also think that it's important to know what you

369
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 1: don't know. Like the first time I was like, actually

370
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 1: in this, I didn't really realize I was in negotiation

371
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 1: until that I was like, oh, I think they were

372
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,240
Speaker 1: like offering me the job, Okay, I didn't know that,

373
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 1: Like everything is a negotiation, And so knowing that, like

374
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 1: when you get that first job, salary negotiation is on

375
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: the table, like negotiating work perks are on the tables,

376
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 1: Like what is on the table for us when we're

377
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,959
Speaker 1: going into an interview, you know, and maybe they are

378
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 1: going to offer us a job on the spot.

379
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 3: Matt, you said something so amazing. Everything is a negotiation,

380
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,360
Speaker 3: not just even when you're like talking about a new job.

381
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,879
Speaker 3: If you're talking about a new project, you wanting to

382
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,880
Speaker 3: get on a new project, that is also a negotiation,

383
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,280
Speaker 3: and we may not think of it in that formal sense.

384
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 3: And I want people to think about it this way.

385
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 3: Let's say like you're already in the job and there's

386
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 3: like a project that you are perhaps interested in getting on,

387
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,400
Speaker 3: and let's say like it's already been staffed, like there's

388
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,159
Speaker 3: already people, but you're like, God, I really want to

389
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 3: get on this project because I know it's going to

390
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,000
Speaker 3: help my career, and plus it is something that I'm

391
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 3: interested in. So I want you to think about what's

392
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 3: the give and take. It's that give and take and

393
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,400
Speaker 3: what you can communicate during that meeting with your manager,

394
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 3: because it's not about oh, they're saying, hey, Jessica, sorry,

395
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,640
Speaker 3: we don't have room for a you, or we don't

396
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 3: have you know, the time. Whatever. It's thinking about, well,

397
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 3: what other ways can I get into this project? Maybe

398
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,400
Speaker 3: think about it as like the back door, right, So

399
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,360
Speaker 3: maybe that front door isn't there, but maybe you can

400
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 3: offer some other things you can do to help that

401
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,679
Speaker 3: project indirectly, So you're in a way still showing that

402
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 3: you're interested, that you still want to contribute. But it

403
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 3: might not be in that initial proposal or in that

404
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 3: initial offer that you wanted. But I guarantee there are

405
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 3: other ways for you, for all of us to add

406
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 3: value to something that we want That might not be

407
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 3: explicitly laid out, but it takes you being creative so

408
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 3: that you can still attach yourself to the things that

409
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 3: you want to do. I think that's really important. So

410
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 3: I always say no is never case closed, it's just

411
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 3: how do you find another way? And I think that

412
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 3: mentality is so important, and also things like building resilience, right,

413
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,879
Speaker 3: not taking things personally, and always feeling that there are

414
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 3: other ways around it.

415
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a quick break.

416
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,439
Speaker 1: And we're back with more grown up stuff. How do

417
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:11,439
Speaker 1: I don't?

418
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about like a performance

419
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 2: review time. How should people first of all take a

420
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 2: day breath prepare for these conversations so that they're able

421
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: to maximize their impact. You know, is this as simple

422
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 2: as just here's my YAE folder, here's all the amazing

423
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 2: wins I've had, or like, what are the other factors

424
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 2: and things to really be considering when we're asking for

425
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 2: more money for the job we're doing.

426
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 3: So, okay, you're sitting at this table and now you

427
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,160
Speaker 3: want to make that big ask And here's the thing.

428
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 3: Sometimes you might get that raise immediately. Sometimes it's just

429
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: not going to happen. But what I do think is

430
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 3: that you are preparing your manager for the conversation where

431
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 3: it's like, this is what I'm working towards, this is

432
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 3: what I care about, and this is the proof for

433
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 3: why I deserve it. So what I have found that

434
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 3: has helped a lot of people get to that next level,

435
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 3: whether it's title or whether it's more money, it's coming

436
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 3: up with ideas to show that you are contributing to

437
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 3: the team. I think a lot of times we can

438
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 3: go into work and we're just going to be doing

439
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 3: what we're told to do. You're hired for a role.

440
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 3: You do this role. But what I have found people

441
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 3: who truly accelerate are people who are constantly offering new ideas.

442
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 3: Bring that energy, that enthusiasm into this meeting of like,

443
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 3: I'm here, I'm a team player, I want to contribute.

444
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 3: These are the things that I care about and I

445
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 3: know can help. And I feel like that enthusiasm, whether

446
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 3: or not you're getting that raise immediately, can show that, hey,

447
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 3: this is what I can bring. Maybe you can't give

448
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 3: me that raise right now, but let's revisit this conversation

449
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 3: in two months, in three months. And I think setting

450
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 3: that stage is important because when you do bring it

451
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 3: up later on because you didn't get it, let's say initially,

452
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 3: when you have that and when you revisit that conversation again,

453
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 3: it's not so abroad because your manager already knows, like, hey, yes,

454
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 3: Jessica was going to follow up with me on this.

455
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: Another thing that people talk about a lot when talking

456
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: about like negotiations, raises and stuff like that is to

457
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: do a lot of like research, you know, market research

458
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: on like what these positions are typically paid, depending on

459
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: the type of job it is and the area that

460
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 1: you live in and the cost of living and all

461
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 1: that stuff like how much do you recommend that people

462
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: do that? Like, are those like receipts so to speak,

463
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: important to bring to these discussions? And if so, where

464
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: do you advise people go look for that information.

465
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 3: There's tons of information out there on this. But the

466
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 3: one thing I always tell people when it comes to negotiating,

467
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: always ask for ten percent at least ten percent more

468
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 3: of what you find. Ten percent I feel as that

469
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 3: safe spot of like you know you're asking for more.

470
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 3: They might not give you that ten percent. You might

471
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 3: meet maybe like five, six, seven percent, but always overshoot

472
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: so that when you come down at least it's meeting

473
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 3: in the middle ground. But to your point, Matt, yes,

474
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: it's doing the research understanding. Are you being underpaid right

475
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,239
Speaker 3: or are you kind of like where the market it is?

476
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 3: And here, let me say this, if you are kind

477
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 3: of like where the market is still ten percent, ask

478
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 3: for ten percent more because you want to always do

479
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: more so that when you eventually land it feels like

480
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 3: a little bit better from where you are at now.

481
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: It's so true, Like I'm going to tell this story

482
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: and I tell this to everyone, and please learn from

483
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: my mistake. I did not do this research. The first

484
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: time I actually ever asked for a raise, and when

485
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: I presented my then boss the number, they laughed in

486
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 1: my face and said you could have got more, and

487
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: then proceeded to not give me more. And so I

488
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: really made a vow. I was like, the next time

489
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: this happens, you will not be laughing. You will be

490
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: strategizing a way to keep me on as an employee.

491
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: And so like, yeah, to your point, like, always ask

492
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: for more because no one ever wants to pay you

493
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: more and they're always gonna walk you down. So be

494
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: walked down from a ridiculous number, not the number that

495
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: you wanted.

496
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 3: I totally agree. And it's not that they don't like

497
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: love you or they wouldn't want to like give it

498
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: to you, just that they're expecting you to ask for it. Right,

499
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 3: So wait, do they seriously laugh at your face? Matt?

500
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: Like were they like, yeah, it was awful, it was

501
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: like the worst day ever.

502
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: Oh no, he's learned and we've all learned.

503
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: We've learned. So yeah, yeah, learned from my mistake. That's

504
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: all I can say.

505
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think also there's like something really powerful

506
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: too about feeling like if you're not going to get

507
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: what you want, it's okay to also walk away. I

508
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 3: think about like my own work, and for me in

509
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: my role as the founder of my company, we're negotiating

510
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 3: contracts all the time, and trust me, I've gotten turned

511
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 3: down many, many times, and I've gotten turned down in

512
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: the sense where they totally would be like, no, we

513
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 3: only have this little of a quote unquote budget to

514
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: do it. And for me, even though I would feel like,

515
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: should I still do it for that price, it feels

516
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 3: kind of like no. If they're not willing to pay

517
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: X amount or whatever it is, it's okay. There's going

518
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 3: to be other opportunities. And similarly, on the flip side,

519
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 3: I've also pitched a contract with X amount and I

520
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, that is way more than

521
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: I I've ever asked for before too, and they've come

522
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 3: back and said, sure, you just never know. And I

523
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: think my belief is everything always works out in the end,

524
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: but you never know what you're working with unless you

525
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: really ask for what it is. And at the end

526
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: of the day, you want to ask for what feels

527
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 3: good to you too, Right, So if somebody's gonna lowball

528
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 3: you something and you accept it, are you gonna feel happy.

529
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: You have to think about it that way as well.

530
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 3: But in your mind, you have to know what's the

531
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 3: leverage here, right, Like, yes, it might not be the number,

532
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: but it could be the company itself that can get

533
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 3: you to that next level. So you just have to

534
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: be very smart and clear minded with what you're trying

535
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: to do and where you're wanting to go.

536
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: Is it chill to like ask your coworkers what they make?

537
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: Is that an okay thing to do, just to kind

538
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: of like know where you stand and by the way,

539
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: in no way am I saying if you get this

540
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: information you should use it to say, hey, my coworker

541
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: makes as much money I should too. I mean, well,

542
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's some situations where you know, two

543
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: people have the exact same job and they make fast

544
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: different salaries that that isn't something that should be rectified.

545
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: It might, you know, depending on the situation. All I'm

546
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: saying is I think it's a bad argument to make

547
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: to your boss saying hey, this person makes X, I

548
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: should make X. Your argument instead should be, hey, I

549
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: work across X number of dollars on X number of projects,

550
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: and that's why I deserve to make this much money.

551
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: But anyway, all that aside, I am curious to hear

552
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: from your perspective, like, is asking your coworkers what their

553
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 1: salaries are? Is that a chill thing to do.

554
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: I don't think there's like a black and white like

555
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: yes or no. I do think a lot of it

556
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: is dependent on like how comfortable you are with them

557
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: and how comfortable they are with you. And I do

558
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: think a lot of it is like how you ask

559
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: to write if you have an awesome like relationship with

560
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: your colleague. And I think a lot of it's also

561
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: context too, like not having this conversation in passing, but

562
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: like maybe you're getting lunch, You're sitting down and you're like, hey,

563
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 3: so I'm planning to ask during performance review that I

564
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 3: want to raise. Do you feel like what you getting

565
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 3: paid is like fair? Are you thinking about potentially asking

566
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 3: for more? You know, during performance review? Because we're all

567
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 3: going through this right now, and it's kind of like

568
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: I guess testing the water a little bit. But if

569
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: you have somebody who you're like pretty comfortable with, you

570
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 3: can just say, like, I'm willing to share what it

571
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 3: is I make, would you be willing to share too?

572
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 3: So it's like a mutual thing. Yeah, And it's almost

573
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: kind of like, let's share this together. So we both

574
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 3: are basically in a way like helping each other. And

575
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: I do think that there's something really valuable to that.

576
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: But be prepared to feel real weird.

577
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: We actually find yes, exactly.

578
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: I've done this before. It can go great or not great. Yes.

579
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: So let's just say, like you're asking your managers, hey,

580
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: you know, I want to talk about a raise or

581
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: I want to talk about a performance review. To kind

582
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: of get to the discussion of talking about a raise,

583
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: when is it appropriate to walk away? Like I feel

584
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: like someone can only be told no so many times,

585
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: or like now it's not the right time or whatever.

586
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: When do you know that you should leave?

587
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 3: I think there are a few markers, really, and I

588
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: think a lot of it comes down to also the

589
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 3: things that you value. There's a chap or my book

590
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 3: where I talk about building your career brand, and basically

591
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: it's like what do you want to be known for

592
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 3: and what you want to be known for or should

593
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: align with the things that you care about. Let's say

594
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: one of the things that you value is growth. You

595
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: want to always make sure you are getting on projects,

596
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: that's helping you grow, it's helping you learn. And if

597
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 3: you feel like you've reached a point at your current

598
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 3: job where the work isn't stimulating, then I think that's

599
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: a sign because what you value that's not happening, So

600
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 3: maybe it's time to look elsewhere. Another example is let's

601
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 3: say you value financial stability, and if you're feeling like

602
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 3: you're having these conversations of negotiating, you're asking for more

603
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: and your manager's not giving it to you, then maybe

604
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: that's time, right. So I think the question really comes

605
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: down to what it is that you value. What is

606
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: it that you care about. Is your job giving it

607
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: to you? And if not, can you do something about

608
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: it at your current place? If not, then it's time

609
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: to look elsewhere. And I think for many of us,

610
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: if we're fortunate enough to be in a place where

611
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: we have a job and we can still look elsewhere,

612
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 3: that's even better, right, so that when something better comes along,

613
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: then you can leave. So I think it comes down

614
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: to what do you value?

615
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can only be told oh, we don't have

616
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: the budget so many times before you're like, well, I

617
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: got to find somewhere that does have the budget. Because

618
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: I am worth it, so by.

619
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Or find someone who sees the value and me that

620
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: what I'm bringing to the table, you know, obviously, like

621
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: no one's seeing it here exactly.

622
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: I also think that the YA folder I really like

623
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: because sometimes it is a really good reminder of oh, yeah,

624
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 2: I'm good at my job, and look at this amazing

625
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: impact I've had. I think obviously salary is a huge

626
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: part of a job, but also your manager is maybe

627
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: the most important part. What are things that people should

628
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: be looking for in a supportive manager and how do

629
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: you make sure that your manager is accurately advocating for

630
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: you to their manager.

631
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 3: I love that you bring this up, Leah, because I

632
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 3: feel like there is nothing more important than having a

633
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 3: manager who supports you. You can do the best darn

634
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: work ever, but if your manager doesn't see you, doesn't

635
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: appreciate the work that you do, you don't feel like

636
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: they respect you. It doesn't matter if you're going two

637
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: hundred miles an hour right They're never going to, in

638
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: your words, like, advocate for you. And I want to say,

639
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: if any of you feel like you're in a situation

640
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: like this right now where you can kind of feel

641
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: like things aren't really good between you and your manager.

642
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: There's nothing more than I can say than start looking elsewhere.

643
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: But actually it's not that you have to switch jobs,

644
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: switch companies. It could be you getting on another team

645
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 3: because I have found when you quote unquote suck it

646
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: up and just be like it's fine, like I'll just

647
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 3: get through it, you're not just like not accelerating, you're

648
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 3: actually slowing down. You're slowing down your career progression because

649
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: think about the time you are wasting because you are

650
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: doing all this work. It's not being appreciate, it's not

651
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: helping you. And that almost compounds in that way where

652
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: you're kind of like getting behind, more behind and more behind.

653
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: So to your point, yes, finding a good manager is

654
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 3: so important, you know, finding a place, a position, a

655
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 3: team where you feel supported, because that's really the most important.

656
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about not

657
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: just advocating for yourself, but advocating for others because I think,

658
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: you know, obviously like saying I'm amazing is great, but

659
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: like when you're able to say, like, you know, Bob

660
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: is amazing, and Sarah is amazing, Bob.

661
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: Is amazing, Bob's so great at his job.

662
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: I think that also really selfishly shows your impact because

663
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 2: you are a team player and you're noticing everybody else's

664
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: skills that they're bringing to But you know, what can

665
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: you say about really being an ally and advocating for

666
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: colleagues to really help yourself as well on a team.

667
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: Yes, I love this question because I mentioned that I'm

668
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: more of an introverted person. But I was even more

669
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: introverted when I first started working, so much so that

670
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: I was like the quiet person, like the quiet girl

671
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 3: in the meeting, right. But I do remember that there

672
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: were certain colleagues who would shout out the work that

673
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: I would do, and it wouldn't be like awkward. It

674
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: would just be like, you know, somebody be like, hey, Jessica,

675
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 3: like awesome job on like whatever AB and C project,

676
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,479
Speaker 3: and you know that person would just say it. And

677
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: I struggled with advocating for myself, but it made such

678
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: a huge difference in my own confidence when I saw

679
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: somebody else do it. So that now when I see

680
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 3: people who tend to be more quiet, when I see

681
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: people who tend to not like to talk about themselves,

682
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 3: I almost try to remind other people like shouting out

683
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 3: their work, but not just that giving them that runway

684
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: to speak is actually you advocating for them as well.

685
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: So think about it like this way, Like you have

686
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 3: somebody who tends to be quiet on the team, but

687
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: you love them, You think they're awesome, you think that

688
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: they're doing amazing work, and you almost are like, oh gosh,

689
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: I wish they would also say something too, because I

690
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: want people to appreciate them. Right, One of the things

691
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: that you can do is create that runway, and that

692
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: essentially just means like, Hey, Leah, we just had that

693
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: like conversation, that one on one meeting. Can you tell

694
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: folks what it is that we talked about, because I

695
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: think it was so awesome, you know, just creating that

696
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: runway for the other person. Suddenly, when you have somebody

697
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 3: advocating for you, it's kind of like you have that buddy,

698
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 3: and that's awesome. I think that's a great thing for

699
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: any of us to do.

700
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: And this is a big dynamic in your book, Smart

701
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: Not Loud. Can you talk a little bit more about

702
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: those dynamics and how they played into like your personal

703
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: story and how you see them played out in the

704
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: workplace in general.

705
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I wrote this book for people who are

706
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: so smart, so hard working, but do find it very

707
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: hard to communicate they are maybe in an environment And

708
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: this was myself, like I was, you know, working in media,

709
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: you have a lot of like big personality people, people

710
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: who are very assertive, and that was my experience and

711
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,239
Speaker 3: I struggled when I first started because I didn't know

712
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 3: how to find my voice, so to speak. So it's like,

713
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: you're smart, but you're not loud. But the subtitle is

714
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 3: how do you get noticed at work for the right reasons?

715
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 3: Because at the end of the day, that takes work,

716
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: that takes being proactive. So the first part of the

717
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: book is really getting people who feel this, how do

718
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 3: you change your mindset around it. It's not about oh,

719
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 3: if you're quiet, you got to be loud, or if

720
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 3: you're loud, you got to be quiet. You know, I'm

721
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: not telling people you got to change yourself, but I

722
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 3: do tell people you do have to change your mentality

723
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: of certain things. And I won't walk through it in detail,

724
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 3: but mindset is important. And then the other part of

725
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 3: it is like, how do you get noticed at work?

726
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: You got to be really clear on what do you

727
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 3: want to be known for? How do you build credibility

728
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 3: in the workplace, how do you advocate for yourself? Those

729
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: are all chapters in the book. And I believe all

730
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 3: this stuff doesn't mean anything unless you know how to

731
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 3: communicate well. And that's the last part of the book,

732
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 3: that's part three, and it's things like what do you say,

733
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: how do you say say it? Body language? Right, Like

734
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 3: all this are elements of communication. So this book is

735
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 3: like really to help people who might not be able

736
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: to communicate to their value. Well, that's what this book

737
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 3: is about.

738
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: One of the biggest things I say to people is like,

739
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: if you're early on in your career and you find

740
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: that there's a challenge for you a read Jessica's book,

741
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: just do that, but be I always think that like

742
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: doing something completely out of your comfort zone, they can

743
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: kind of just like in a safe environment. I generally

744
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: recommend people to take improv classes, Like if you've got

745
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: an improv class in your city near you, like that

746
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: can be a great way to like a scare the

747
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: Bejesus out of yourself, but be like get outside of

748
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: the bounds of like what is normally comfortable for you,

749
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: because like that's what life is. We're all just improving, right,

750
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: And so if you can kind of like set some

751
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: dedicated time to work on that for yourself. I think

752
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: that that can like pay huge dividends for people like

753
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: who you're describing.

754
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 3: Improv is amazing because it gets you to do something

755
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 3: you're not comfortable doing. But I actually always tell people,

756
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: because I do a lot of like public speaking training

757
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 3: and whatnot, that that's really what it is, like knowing

758
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: how to command the tension of an audience right, And

759
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: a lot of it does have to come down to

760
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 3: the impromptu aspect of it, because how many of us,

761
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 3: like prepare for a presentation, We literally write out our

762
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 3: script right, and now you're presenting, and then you forget

763
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 3: your word and then you start to fumble and you

764
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 3: start to stumble, and it's just like, oh my god,

765
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 3: now it feels like a train wreck. But I do

766
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: think you know, to your point, Matt, I do think

767
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 3: that helps you find your ground quickly, especially when things

768
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 3: don't go as planned. So yes, one hundred percent agree,

769
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 3: it's a muscle totally well.

770
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: On the opposite of improv too, I did want to

771
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: touch a little bit on the things that we can

772
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: control and can be like, you know, very particular about

773
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: are there any tips that you can share with us

774
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: about communicating. When it comes to ensuring that our body language,

775
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: our tonees mind tend to roll a lot. Our words

776
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 2: are all powerful and professional, both in person and also

777
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: in online communications because we're doing a lot on slack,

778
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: we're doing a lot on email. This is not just

779
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 2: sitting in a room having a meeting, but all around.

780
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 2: How can we make sure that we are presenting ourselves

781
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: physically and with words that is professional, but it is

782
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: also like firm and getting our point across but not

783
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: stepping out of line.

784
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 3: Let's say, great question, so let's start with tone of voice.

785
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 3: You know, it's really interesting because every time I talk

786
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 3: about teaching people to adjust their tone of voice, people

787
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: often say, well, is it my tone just kind of

788
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: like what I sound like, or is it just like

789
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 3: if I'm screaming at somebody or if I'm like whispering right,

790
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: But actually, in the communications world, we say that there

791
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 3: are five elements that go into your tone of voice,

792
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: and I'll walk you all through them. The first one

793
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: is your pitch, so the pitch of your voice, and

794
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 3: that basically means how high your voices or how low.

795
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 3: And women we just tend to have higher pitches. Men

796
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: tend to have lower pitches. But what I teach is

797
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 3: we actually have a range. And you might be familiar

798
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 3: with this term, but like speaking with your diaphragm, speaking

799
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: from like your stomach, to have that gravitas, that's pitch, right,

800
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: And when we talk about making sure people understand the

801
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: impact of your message, that variety is key. When you're excited,

802
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: you have a higher pitch. When you're having a serious tone,

803
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 3: it's lower. We have a range. The second one is

804
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 3: your rate, how fast you're speaking or how slow. Most

805
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 3: people when they're nervous, they're like speaking really fast, right,

806
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 3: But it's not about speaking slowly because if you're talking

807
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 3: so slow, it's like boring, honestly. So the key here

808
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: is variety. The other one is what we call your inflection.

809
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 3: So what words do you want emphasized? So like a

810
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 3: lot of us, we never think about it this way,

811
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 3: but when you are trying to convey a message to somebody,

812
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 3: you have a choice of what words you want emphasized.

813
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 3: A lot of times people just kind of like talk

814
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: and talk, But if you want people to like digest

815
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 3: a certain key point, that requires you to inflect certain words.

816
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: The other element is intensity, how loud or how soft.

817
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: How loud you're speaking is like yelling, how soft is

818
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 3: like whispering, And it's about variety. The last one is

819
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 3: the quality of your voice. So that basically means do

820
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: you tend to have more raspy, hoarse, squeaky? And that

821
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: of the five is what we say you cannot change.

822
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 3: So it's like when someone calls you, they're like, oh

823
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: it's Leah, it's Matt, like they know it's you. But

824
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 3: what we always say is when you communicate, you can

825
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: control the four and you should because that's what sounds interesting.

826
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: And what about power stance?

827
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,479
Speaker 2: Oh love a power post?

828
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: How do you feel about power stance in the office?

829
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

830
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, go what you're like, arm on your head, your

831
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: hand on your head all the time?

832
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 2: Right?

833
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: Yes?

834
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: I will tell you that there is something to be

835
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: said about space and how you take up space in

836
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 3: a meeting. And it's not about like hey, let me

837
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 3: hog up, let me like open my hands, like my

838
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 3: arm's wide. But it's about when you're sitting in your seat,

839
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 3: not like scrunching yourself. There's something also to be said

840
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 3: about like and I'm talking about like in person meetings.

841
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 3: Right when you're in a meeting sitting in your seat

842
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 3: like you own the seat. There's also something to be

843
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: said about where you sit. A lot of times when

844
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 3: people feel intimidated, they just kind of find the back

845
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 3: seat where they can kind of like hide in that

846
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: corner and they can quietly just like take down notes.

847
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: I always say, you know, when you're in a meeting,

848
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 3: you want people to see you. So it's not that

849
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: you have to like sit in the very front or

850
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 3: sit next to like that client that's visiting, but at

851
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 3: least position yourself in a way where people can see you.

852
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 3: And this is a huge part of the book. It's

853
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: about building visibility. Part of it is it's not who

854
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,479
Speaker 3: you know, it's who knows you that can really open

855
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 3: doors for you. And part of like you know, where

856
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 3: you sit, how you sit is how they perceive you,

857
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 3: and that's part of that perception. So body language does

858
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 3: play a huge part in it.

859
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: To two final questions, one thing actually I wanted to

860
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: chat with you brought up and this actually really pertains

861
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: to my wife. So my wife is one of those

862
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: people who she works on an international team and a

863
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: lot of them are in Europe. And she's actually by

864
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: yourself in the United States, and so she does feel

865
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: the thing where she's left out and she doesn't necessarily

866
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: feel part of the team. And I guess my question is,

867
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: how can you advocate for yourself when you're in a

868
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: position of like you're completely remote, you're never in person,

869
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: You're always the person who's you know, a box on

870
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: a screen on someone else's office. Like advice for people

871
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: in that situation.

872
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: Gosh, it is hard. So in a situation like that

873
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: where like everybody is situated in one location, you're in

874
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: the other location, I do believe number one. And this

875
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: also makes people feel like kind of uncomfortable. But like

876
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 3: I do think it's important for them to see you

877
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 3: when you are in these remote team meetings. So it

878
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: really is something as simple as like turning your camera on.

879
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: And I know some organizations require some organizations don't, but

880
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 3: I do think that there is value in you turning

881
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 3: your camera on so that they can see your face.

882
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 3: As humans, that's how we connect with other people. Yes,

883
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: you know, we can have that box whatever, right, and

884
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 3: you know it's easier, let's be real to have our

885
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 3: cameras off in these meetings. But if you're in a

886
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 3: remote situation or if it is a what I call

887
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: like a higher stakes meeting, you know, having your camera

888
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: on can allow them to see you and really just

889
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 3: like build that connection with you. The other thing is

890
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: using like the chat functions so that they can still

891
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 3: see that you're engaging like of course if other people

892
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: are using the chat engage in it. It's just trying

893
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 3: to find those opportune times to get your name out

894
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 3: there for people to see you, for people to hear you.

895
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 3: One other thing that I say is important is this

896
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 3: is where one on one connection does make a huge difference. So,

897
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 3: like to your point, Matt, having and establishing those meetings,

898
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 3: these like catch up meetings with people you know, people

899
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 3: who you might not regularly meet but you would want

900
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 3: to get to know them better. Trying to carve out

901
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: time to schedule that one on one chat with them.

902
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 3: I do think it helps them keep you top of mind,

903
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: because that's the biggest challenge right that we're talking about.

904
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 3: When you're remote, it's easy for people to not remember

905
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 3: you at a sight out of mind, right, So for

906
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 3: you it does take that extra ten to fifteen percent

907
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 3: of effort for you to find those ways to include yourself.

908
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 3: But here's another thing. Tell people that you want to

909
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 3: be included in you know, certain meetings where you are

910
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 3: finding yourself not being included. And if it's like certain

911
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 3: projects that you want to get on, you can even

912
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: let them know, like hey, I'm happy to jump on

913
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: a call during this time because they might be thinking, oh,

914
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: we don't want to bother Jessica, right, like they're creating

915
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 3: this narrative. But if you're like, no, no, no, no, like

916
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 3: I actually want to be a part of it, and

917
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 3: you say that, then they know. You know, the one

918
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: thing is that you cannot assume people know what you're thinking.

919
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 3: Whatever it is that you want, you got to make

920
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: it known. That's how they're going to know.

921
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: And to your point Jessica that like you don't know

922
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: what's on the table until you ask for it. I

923
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: was like, they keep telling you that you can come

924
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: to like some stuff in Europe, just tell them that

925
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: you want to come. And she ended up going and

926
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: she was like there for a full week and she

927
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: was like, I'm really really glad that I did that.

928
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: The human connection is just so important, especially when it

929
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: comes to advocating for you, Like people have to get

930
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: to know you as a human and that was a

931
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: huge thing for her. And so I think if anyone

932
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: is in the situation and meetings are going on, ask

933
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: if you can come. You know, companies have the budget

934
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 1: to fly you out most of the time.

935
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just got to ask.

936
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

937
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: Speaking of asking, I'd like to ask you, is there

938
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: anything we didn't touch on here yet today that you

939
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: think is important for people to know that, are you know,

940
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: really ready to speak up for themselves at work?

941
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: You know?

942
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 3: The one thing that I would say, and I always

943
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 3: like to end with this, you know, we talked about

944
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 3: asking for what you want. We talked about negotiating, we

945
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,479
Speaker 3: talked about building visibility, We talked about all the things

946
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: that are really important for our career but we often forget.

947
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 3: But the one thing that I want people to try

948
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 3: to do more is celebrating the work that you are doing.

949
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: And I love talking about this because for most of us,

950
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 3: we work hard. For most of us, like we generally

951
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: like the work that we do. We enjoy it, and

952
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: we like to just get things done right. But oftentimes

953
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: we forget to step back and go like, I'm actually

954
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 3: doing great work here. And that's where the celebration comes.

955
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be this grand thing and the celebrating,

956
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: Like I said, it can be you letting people know

957
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 3: about it. It can be you forwarding a message, It

958
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 3: can be you pinging your colleagues on Slack. Any of

959
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 3: that stuff I believe is celebrating. It's just letting people

960
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 3: know that you're excited about something, and I guarantee they'll

961
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 3: be excited. But aside from letting your colleagues know, even

962
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 3: outside of work, you know, when you're going back home,

963
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 3: you're talking to your wife, your husband, your boyfriend, your girlfriend. Right,

964
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 3: if there's like a deal that you just closed, pop

965
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 3: open that champagne. You know, Like, I really think that

966
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: there is like value in doing things like that, And

967
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: you might not think it's important, but I truly feel

968
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 3: like life is so short, like really like you have

969
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 3: to find these opportune times to celebrate because when else

970
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: are you going to do it?

971
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: Right? Absolutely, If this isn't good.

972
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is?

973
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Jessica, Before we let you go, can you let

974
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 2: everyone know where they can find you and more of

975
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: your brilliant thoughts and work?

976
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, well my books smart not loud? How

977
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 3: to get noticed I'd work for all the right reasons.

978
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 3: It's in bookstores everywhere. You can find on Amazon, Barnes,

979
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 3: and Noble. And if any of this really resonated with you,

980
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: all like this book is filled with all these golden

981
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 3: nuggets to really help you communicate to build visibility, so

982
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 3: check that out. I am most active on LinkedIn, so

983
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 3: if you listen to this episode you love it, add

984
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 3: me on LinkedIn let me know you heard it, or

985
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 3: on Instagram, so just type in my name Jessica Chen

986
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: and you can find me there.

987
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: Amazing, Jessica, thank you so much for spending this time

988
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: with us. I know people are going to get a

989
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: lot of value out of this conversation. These are the

990
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: conversations we just don't really have all the time, and

991
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: they are important to have, so thank you for being

992
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: with us.

993
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 2: Oh I'm putting this conversation in my yay folder immediately, so.

994
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, thank you for having me.

995
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: This is awesome.

996
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jessica. Okay, Matt, tell me about a recent

997
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 2: addition to your yay folder.

998
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: A recent addition to my ya folder is hiring and

999
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 1: working with one of the best post production coordinators out there,

1000
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: ad the Aguilar, who is in the studio with us

1001
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: right now. Amazing, and Abby doesn't want to be on

1002
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: mid right, but we've been working together. She's been getting

1003
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: trained out. She's recording the session right now, and I'm

1004
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: so so happy to have Abby at our team. That's

1005
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: going in my yaye folder. What about you?

1006
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: That was a good one. That was a really good one.

1007
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 2: I got a nice Slack message from someone appreciating that

1008
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: I helped them with a project. So I took a

1009
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: little screenshot of that.

1010
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: Nice people say nice things about your work.

1011
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very nice.

1012
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: So nice. Someone did that recently. They sent me a

1013
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 1: long email and I was like, this is the kindest

1014
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: thing anyone's ever seen. And it made me go like

1015
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: I should do this more. I should just randomly be

1016
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: super kind of people, because it like made my year.

1017
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, even when people do like a pretty okay job,

1018
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: let them know they did a good job and like.

1019
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: It means yeah, it doesn't mean a lot.

1020
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 2: That's our tips.

1021
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: Well. I hope you have many more editions in your

1022
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: yay folder before we're back with our next episode in

1023
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: two weeks.

1024
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 2: That's right, and until next time, good luck being a

1025
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 2: grown up.

1026
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: This is a production of Ruby Studio from My Heart Media.

1027
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Leo Palmery and.

1028
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: That's still This episode was edited and engineered by Sierra.

1029
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: Spreen, and we'd like to thank our team at Ruby Studio,

1030
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: including Sarah You, Ethan Fixel, Rachel Swan, krasnov Lydia, Kim Harper, Wayne,

1031
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: Deborah Garrett, Salia Vra Plug, Abby Aguilar, and Andy Kelly