WEBVTT - Monster - Behind The Podcast [bonus] 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.880 Welcome to Monster d Z Sniper, a production of I 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:10.000 Heart Radio and Tenderfoot t V. The views and opinions 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.920 expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.400 author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.720 represent those of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot t V, or 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:27.120 their employees. Listener discretion is advised. Late last month, new 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.800 developments broke in the DC Sniper case. The Supreme Court 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.360 was set to rule on whether Lee Boyd Malvo should 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.600 be resentenced in Virginia. In two past cases, the Supreme 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.440 Court held that mandatory life sentences without parole for juvenile 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:46.640 offenders is unconstitutional. In February, before the Supreme Court made 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.080 a ruling, Virginia Governor Ralph Northam signed a new bill 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.280 into law. The law gives parole eligibility to all juvenile 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:59.040 offenders tried, convicted, and sentenced within the adult justice system 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.920 in Virginia. As a result, Malvo agreed to withdraw his 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.920 appeal and the case has been dismissed by the Supreme Court. 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.679 This new law means Malvo can seek parole in Virginia. 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:16.839 These developments will have lasting implications not just on Malvo's fate, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.640 but the fates of hundreds of others who committed felony 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.319 crimes as miners in Virginia. For that reason, Monster d 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.920 C Sniper is taking an extra week to conduct further research, 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.560 speak with more experts, and to update the finale of 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.520 this podcast. The main season will resume next week with 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.120 episode twelve with the investigation into the Sniper's killings leading 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.560 up to the DC attacks, including police interviews with Lee 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:48.000 Boyd Malvo and John Mohammed. In the meantime, we're happy 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.240 to present this recording of Alive behind the scenes event 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:57.240 from January. The creators of Monster Dacy Sniper were invited 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.880 to speak at the Savannah College of Art and Designs 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.000 Podcast Weekend. The event was hosted by the senior executive 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:11.639 director at SCAD Film, l Semen. Hi, everybody, my name 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.160 is Lee Semen, and I have the distinct pleasure to 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.480 head up the festivals and events produced by SCAD Film 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.640 with an incredible support team from all of our SCAD family, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.480 over four campuses around the world, sixteen thousand students, over 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.600 forty thousand alumni, and seventy countries. GOAD Film was created 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.520 so that we could take full advantage of our SCAD 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.480 expertise and pre eminence and match it to the growing 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.840 expertise that industry was bringing to Atlanta, UH and create 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.240 opportunities for a collision of creative minds. And we've been 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.280 able to do that through established festivals like our SCAD 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.880 Savannah Film Festival, which has been in place over twenty years, 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.480 our a TV Fest which will be in its eighth year, 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.120 and this sort of new palette of festivals Animation Fest, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.880 gaming Fest, and a whole year of events like this 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.000 this one SCAD podcast Weekend. Now, I have a question 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.120 for you, when is the last time that you counted 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:12.080 to seventy million? Our friends here today counted to seventy 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:16.120 million in their first season. They counted almost to seventy 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.320 million again, and they're about to count to more than 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.919 seventy million with season three. These guys know what they 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.760 are doing and they are led by Matt Frederick. Please 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:30.040 join me and welcoming him. Hi, everybody, my name is 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.520 Matt Frederick. I am currently a lead executive producer at 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.320 I Heeart Podcasts. We're here in Atlanta were based in 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:38.520 pont City Market. That's where we make a lot of 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.680 our shows. Back in two thousand six, I got an 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.640 internship at how Stuff Works. It was back on the 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.880 internet when you're on the internet just to read articles. 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.920 Do you remember that time? Does anybody remember a time 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.560 when that happened? Because How Stuff Works the whole time 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.760 it had been a thing made articles. A couple of 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.240 years later, we started making videos. So we tried to 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.840 do is take those articles and put them into video format, 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.480 and it worked really well for a while. We created 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.720 things like brain Stuff and one of the shows I 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.040 created called stuff They Don't want you to Know. It 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.440 was going really well, but there's this other emerging medium 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.040 called podcasts, and nobody knew really what it was. But 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.320 we figured, well, let's try taking those articles and turn 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.480 them into an audio format that you could just listen 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.360 to instead of having to read it. And from those 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.120 little experimentations from back in two thousand and eight two 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.880 thousand nine, we created some of the biggest podcasts that 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.680 exist on this planet today, Stuff you should Know, Stuff 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.120 you missed in history class, stuff Mom never told you. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.880 And that was all through the website How Stuff Works, 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:41.520 which became stuff Media, the podcast arm of that website, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.919 and it's so weird. We moved to Pont City Market 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.320 we're making all these shows, and we find out there's 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.240 this amazing true crime show unlike anything anybody has ever 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.320 heard before, and it's apparently being produced four floors above 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.279 our office. We had no idea that was happening. It 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.840 was this just a small group of people. They were 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.159 called Tenderfoot TV, and we were so impressed with the content. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.680 We thought, Okay, let's contact these guys, Donald Lellbright and 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.920 Payne Lindsay, let's see what they're up to. We had 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.760 a quick meeting and just over coffee, we decided we 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:16.480 want to work together, and if we are going to 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:18.760 work together, what do we want to tackle? What story 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.960 do we want to tell. Both teams simultaneously wanted to 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.839 tell Atlanta's missing and murdered children's story because it was 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.039 not something that was being talked about. We felt like 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.039 it was a story that had been underserved, and it 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.720 was an underserved community in the first place, and we thought, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.400 let's at least do our best to tell the stories 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.800 of the people who went through this, who lived through this, 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:47.160 and we created Atlanta Monster Atlanta, Georgia, nineteen seventy nine. 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.360 One by one, kids are going missing with no explanation 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.560 seven of the children have disappeared since March. A black 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.240 thirteen year old boy living in a housing project, good 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.600 in school, a loner working for extra money, and as 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:06.920 of Thursday night, missing Are you scared? Altogether nine children 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.640 between the ages of seven and fourteen have disappeared in 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.120 the last year. People from outside see this in the 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.960 context of what's happening to black people across the country. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.200 Missing children have become priority number one at a p D. 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.600 We cannot as a community, as a city, carry on 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.159 business as usual. I want the people of Atlanta and 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.599 the nation to know that this administration is totally color blind. 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.839 When the producers of Up and Vanished in Health Stuff works, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:43.200 you present an all new podcast, Atlanta Monster. Officially, according 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.880 to the list, there were twenty three children five adults 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.039 who were killed from nine the picture there is a 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.560 mug shot of Wayne Williams, the man who is still 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.600 in jail right now. He was convicted of killing two adults, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.840 and we spoke with him extensively for this show. I 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.080 don't know if you guys realized this. There are so 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.040 many people in this city that believe that man killed 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.000 absolutely zero people. It was mind blowing to us to 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.000 know how many people held that as an opinion. We 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.800 thought it was worth talking to him to see what 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.880 he had to say. It premiered in January, and again, 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.720 this is stuff media. At that time, we get acquired 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.440 by I Heart Radio the end of We love the process, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.960 we love the style, and we wanted to work again 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.160 with tender Foot TV. We're gonna find another time when 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.520 terror was running rampant in this city, when just going 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.520 about your daily life was a problem, and we looked 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.640 to San Francisco. Right at the turn of the Summer 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.560 of Love n nineteen sixty nine, there was what was 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.360 believed to be a man who was killing young people 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.760 in their cars at lovers lanes. This person was writing 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.880 letters to the San Francisco Chronicle and other newspapers. He 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.920 had captured a city, and he had put fear in 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.120 the hearts of everyone living in the entire area from 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:05.040 Napa Valley to Valleo to San Francisco. In the seventies, 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.880 as it was happening, a lot of us probably thought, Gee, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.680 there's a lot going on, But looking back at a 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.880 decade of violence, it was just crazy. It was crazy time. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.239 Most serial killers don't make any effort to involve media 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.640 or investigators. They're very secretive. They don't want attention. They 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.480 almost want their crimes to go unnoticed. But the idea 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.400 of committing a crime and then calling up the police 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.080 and bragging about it, that's a whole nother level of terror. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.240 A man who wore a medieval style executioner's hood, who 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.440 has baffled the police and baffled the media. He seems 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.320 to crave publicity. He sent letters and cryptograms to newspapers 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.600 and the police. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.760 no a double murder. I did it here. We are 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.400 fifty years after the first Zodiac killing. In today's world 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.680 of forensics, old cases are being solved. We're talking about 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.760 the most famous cold case in the last century or 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.040 so in terms of it's drama and being unsolved. Who 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:11.640 doesn't want to know how it turns out, Dear editor, 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.680 this is the Zodiac speaking. If you do not print 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.640 the cipher by the afternoon of Friday, first of August, 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.120 I will go on to kill rampage Friday night. I 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.720 will cruise around all weekend, killing loan people in the night, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.480 then move on to kill again. The best part of 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.560 it is that when I die, I'll be reborn in 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.360 paradise and all that I have killed will become my slaves. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.920 From My Heart Radio, How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV, 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:51.960 this is Monster the Zodiac Killer. That impression of the 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.400 Zodiac Killer. That was an actual letter that was sent 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.080 to the San Francisco Chronicle. Hearing it in that way, 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:58.440 I don't know if it has the same effect on you. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.160 I hope it does. That's kind of the point of it. 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.920 But it really is spine tingling to me to know 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.080 that someone actually wrote that and felt that I wanted 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.559 everybody else to feel that way. It kind of just 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.840 fits that title, doesn't it. Monster whoever that was. So 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.000 here's the deal. We are back with the third iteration 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.559 of the Monster series. We went from one all the 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.680 way back to sixty nine. This year we're going to 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.120 two thousand two, to a time right after nine eleven, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:30.120 to a time when the country was in fear already 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.040 and someone came along and struck fear in the hearts 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:35.800 of all of us. Again. We're gonna tell you all 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.199 about it tonight, because tonight we have the creators of 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.400 the third iteration. It is called Monster d C Sniper. 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.839 Tonight we have the host, Tony Harris, and we have 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.920 two of the producers, Trevor Young and Benjamin Kiebrick. And guys, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.400 if you'd like to join me on stage, come on up. 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.880 We've got Trevor Young, this is Ben Keebrick. These guys 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.320 are the writers and really the backbone the creators of 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.880 the show. So, Ben, I want to pose this to you. 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:04.920 Can you tell us kind of a basic overview of 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.040 the case and how you came to learn all the 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.480 information about it? So one thing just to start, So 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.600 I actually I grew up in northern Virginia, so I 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.560 was a high school student when all this stuff was 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.679 going on. But then starting to research it, I realized, 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.400 even though I was there at the time and like 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.800 getting all that local news and stuff, I realized there 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.439 is so much about this case that either I never 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.520 knew or completely forgot about um. And that was one 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.880 of the reasons I wanted to tell this story, as 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:31.400 I felt like, well, if I don't know any of 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.480 this stuff, then I don't think many people do. So 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.040 October second, two thousand two, one person was shot. The 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.240 next day five people are shot. They're just going about 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.880 their everyday lives. A guy mowing a lawn, people filling 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.840 up their cars with gas, things like that. They seem 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.080 to have no connection to one another, but when they 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.800 analyzed the bullets, they realized that they're all coming from 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.880 the same rifle. There's someone out there kind of shooting 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.080 people and discriminately, and it's kind of like, now, what 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.000 do you do? No one knows is it terrorists, is 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.160 it a serial killer? What's going on. It's a very 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.520 suburban area. Immediately everyone was worried about their kids. A 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.400 couple of days later, there's a shooting at a middle school. 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.600 Outside that middle school, they find a terror card with 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.040 a cryptic note written on it, and kind of the 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.520 story just gets crazier and crazier. When I was doing 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.400 the research, one of the things is it seems like 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.440 there's a lot of misinformation out there. There are some 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.439 good books written about it that kind of cover narrow angles, 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.720 some kind of made for TV documentaries, but it felt 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.760 like no one had really put everything in one place 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.199 where it tried to to really give a feel of 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.840 what it was like to live through that. And that's 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.360 that's the thing that Monster does really well, is putting 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.640 people into a time and a place and kind of 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.280 trying to make our listeners feel what it must have 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.200 been like to go through that. So, Trevor, you tracked 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.640 down so many people and talked with them, tell us 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.520 the different perspectives that we're actually hearing from the show. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.520 So off the bat, you can expect to hear anywhere 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.679 from forty to fifty people in this podcast. We've over 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.040 the last six to nine months interview just an insane 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.600 amount of people. But I think this was such a 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.800 big story that affected so many people that really that's 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.760 only a tiny fraction of the people we could interview. Right. Um. 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:23.800 Dr Caroline Namro was a pediatrician. She was just um 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.199 going about her day. She was dropping her kids off 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.960 at school. Uh, and she stopped to get gas on 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.679 October three, and she made eye contact with a man 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:34.839 and didn't really think anything of it. Then all of 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:36.920 a sudden, she hears a pop and the man goes 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.760 down on her car, bleeding and says, call the cops. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.560 So she tries to resuscitate this man. She's calling the police. 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.360 She you heard her on the nine one one call 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.640 on that teaser, and she's doing I think what all 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.400 of us would do. She's just kind of reacting. She's 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.880 frankly kind of freaking out. I don't know how I 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:56.719 would react. I don't even know if I could call 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.959 nine one one. She told us her medical training kick 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.960 dan and she was able to go into gear and 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.800 really try and help this person. And it's a phenomenal 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.079 story to hear her tell it, and it's one of 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.440 the first things you hear in the podcast. There's a 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.800 lot of incredible stories like that, and I think what 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.560 we really want to do is really tell them to 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.960 their like full extent, to really let you know the 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:20.760 full story of what happened with each and every one 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:34.600 of these people from every perspective. So we're speaking with witnesses, 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.160 we're speaking with victims, families, were speaking with the law 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.920 enforcement officials from all of the varying organizations that were 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.000 a part of this massive manhunt. And one of the 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.640 people that was there at that time was this award 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.800 winning journalist named Tony Harris. You have been in television 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.800 for a long time, my friend, stop right there. When 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.640 when is the first time? Am I not allowed to know? 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.840 Was what was first TV gig? For real? My first 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:06.920 TV gig was eight two eight two. The first time 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:11.920 you're yeah, and you have been working consistently this whole time. 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.600 Knock would Yeah, I just want to know, why are 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.600 you taking all of your TV talents and putting them 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.720 into a pott Oh that's easy. Look, when you sign 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.760 up for this role as a journalist, you know what 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.080 you're saying to anyone who will listen to you is 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.520 that you want to tell amazing stories. You want to 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.560 dig deep, and you want to share those stories. You 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.240 want to investigate, you want to uncover, and you want 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.600 to report. That's what you sign up for when you 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.560 say you want to be a journalist, and that's what 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.960 I did forever ago. And once you do that, you 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.720 want to find as many venues as possible to tell 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.760 amazing stories. So sure, I've I've done that work at CNN, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.400 I did that work for Al Jazeera in Dohan and 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.600 then again in New York. I have been really fortunate 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.760 to cover amazing stories, everything from the Southeast Asia tsunami 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:11.080 to Katrina to the Arab spring. And this is an 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.440 opportunity that I think it's really special now. This world 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.200 that you guys have created gives journalists like me an 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.400 opportunity to dig, to do the deep dive this is 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.360 a really deep dive, and I mean, I think that's important. 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:25.920 That's an important point to make here. So it's not 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.000 a situation that you see a lot in television news 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.120 where you got a fifteen seconds sound bite from someone. 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:35.560 You get an opportunity to actually hear someone explain not 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.280 just the moment, but what they were feeling and what 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.520 they were going through emotionally in that moment. That's why 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.360 I feel blessed to have this opportunity to tell this 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.200 story that I have kind of intimate knowledge of. You 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.840 remember this story, right, I mean you remember this. I 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.240 just need to feel some energy back from from the audience. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.120 You do remember the story, right. This is two thousand two, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.800 and I, um wow. I was working in Baltimore as 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.399 a news anchor for the Fox affiliate there and on 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.919 the second I remember us getting a call in our 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.600 newsroom about our shooting in Montgomery County, which was odd 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.440 and weird because you know, as was mentioned, Montgomery County 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.800 is kind of this pristine community high net Worth County 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.320 in Maryland. That would have led our newscast that night, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.840 and the next day all all hell broke lose um 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.600 five people killed on the third and at that point 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.560 as my news brain was working at the time, I 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.160 knew we had a massive story and not enough people. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.439 I'm thinking resources to cover the story. I'm thinking about 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.520 how do we get the information to people. We weren't 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.399 getting anything from police. Everyone was afraid that that it 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.159 was terrorism, and we just didn't have enough resources to 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.399 cover the story. And I don't know it. At some 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.640 point during the twenty three days of panic and Hell, 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.640 I can remember sort of wait a minute, You're you're 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.080 trying to figure out because as an anchor, you're getting 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.760 people on who are telling the story. And I think 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:06.720 in many cases we might have been part of the 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.720 problem and telling the story because we became as fixated 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:12.879 as anyone with the idea of the white van. You 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.560 remember the white panel truck. Remember that, how that sort 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.359 of dominated the story. And then the next thing was 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.040 all of the leaks that we were reporting on, and 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.240 how some of those leaks were coming from investigators close 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.600 to the case. So you're just conflicted, and you're wondering 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.240 if if you're doing a service to the public. But 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.160 we have people viewers who were clamoring to know everything 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.080 there is to know about this case, and so you're 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.359 feeling conflicted in everything else, and and I'm still thinking 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.920 as an anchor, as a reporter trying to get information. 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.320 At some point, and I don't know when, At some point, 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.479 um I started to think like a human being, and 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.679 I started to think about the people who had been killed, 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:04.199 their lives, their families. And then I it must have 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.840 been around the time when Iron Brown, thirteen year old, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.639 he had a Tasker Middle School shot. Yeah, that's right, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:15.280 that's right at Tasker Middle School. And I think it 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:20.080 was shortly or certainly in that moment, I began to 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.160 stop thinking about this purely as a story, with all 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.480 the adrenaline that goes along with being, you know, a 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.240 reporter or anchor on a huge story with national and 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.560 international interest, and I started to think about myself as 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.320 a father or two young children, and the story kind 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.560 of changes for me at that point. So there are 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.679 two routes I want to go with that, Steve Antoni. 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.320 The first one is how making a show like this 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.879 affects you when you are speaking to somebody like this, 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.359 then you're perhaps in an editing bay and listening to 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.280 it over and over again and really trying to pull 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.760 out the truth and the emotion in something horrific that 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.000 you're listening to. How has that affected you, guys, Has 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.520 it affected you guys at all? Or how do you 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.600 think about it? Well, I think all are most of 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.320 us here come from a journalism background, and I think 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.119 when you work in journalism for so many years, um, 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.119 you kind of in a way learn how to harden 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.480 yourself when you're talking and hearing and dealing with these stories. 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.240 So you know, when you go into this, when you're 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.560 in the moment you're talking to this person, you're doing 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.320 two things. You're you're one trying to get the story, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.040 get the information really like talk with this person, empathize 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:32.879 with them, But you know, at the end of the 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.480 day also you are trying to connect with them on 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.879 an emotional level. And I think in the podcasting world, 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.760 we're trying to do that more over longer periods of time, 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.880 and it's harder to not let that affect you. It's 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.159 hard not to feel more emotionally invest in these people 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.200 when you were talking with them on multiple occasions, sometimes 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.560 for hours at a time. You know, these are not 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:58.600 like TV interviews that you see on a talk show. 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.840 These are people that when you leave the room with them, 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.120 or you get off the phone with them. You feel 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.639 like you know each other and there's a piece of 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.040 each other that you've shared that you are probably gonna 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:15.120 remember forever and you can't take back. And I personally 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.640 have walked away from a lot of interviews I don't 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.720 want to say shaken, but feeling like I had experienced 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.440 something myself that somebody had explained to me because they 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.080 you know, we're so open with me, because they went 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.800 to so much detail, because they gave me something so vivid, 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:35.200 I almost felt like I'd been there. And it's good 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.159 for us to hear that stuff because then we know 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:42.240 we have something powerful. One of the major purposes of 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:46.159 these shows is to learn something from the experience of 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.000 all of the people that have gone through all of 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.040 these things. People who have, you know, been on the 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.480 side of the law, chasing somebody down, or on on 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.840 the wrong side of a gun. It's basic storytelling stuff, 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.800 but it's also very important to us when we're making 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.760 a show like this, looking at the big picture and 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.600 thinking about ourselves. Then I want to jump to you 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:08.479 really quickly because one of the ways we do that 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.560 is to kind of time travel. In these shows, and 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.720 play archival footage from news organizations. Talk to me about 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.119 how we're using archival footage in this and how that's 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:22.200 helping to shape the story. But it's also telling us 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.320 some things about what was going on between law enforcement 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.679 and the media. So this is kind of an interesting 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.119