1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster d Z Sniper, a production of I 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Tenderfoot t V. The views and opinions 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: represent those of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot t V, or 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: their employees. Listener discretion is advised. Late last month, new 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: developments broke in the DC Sniper case. The Supreme Court 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: was set to rule on whether Lee Boyd Malvo should 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: be resentenced in Virginia. In two past cases, the Supreme 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: Court held that mandatory life sentences without parole for juvenile 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: offenders is unconstitutional. In February, before the Supreme Court made 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: a ruling, Virginia Governor Ralph Northam signed a new bill 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: into law. The law gives parole eligibility to all juvenile 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: offenders tried, convicted, and sentenced within the adult justice system 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: in Virginia. As a result, Malvo agreed to withdraw his 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: appeal and the case has been dismissed by the Supreme Court. 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: This new law means Malvo can seek parole in Virginia. 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: These developments will have lasting implications not just on Malvo's fate, 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: but the fates of hundreds of others who committed felony 20 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: crimes as miners in Virginia. For that reason, Monster d 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: C Sniper is taking an extra week to conduct further research, 22 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: speak with more experts, and to update the finale of 23 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: this podcast. The main season will resume next week with 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: episode twelve with the investigation into the Sniper's killings leading 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: up to the DC attacks, including police interviews with Lee 26 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: Boyd Malvo and John Mohammed. In the meantime, we're happy 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: to present this recording of Alive behind the scenes event 28 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: from January. The creators of Monster Dacy Sniper were invited 29 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: to speak at the Savannah College of Art and Designs 30 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: Podcast Weekend. The event was hosted by the senior executive 31 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: director at SCAD Film, l Semen. Hi, everybody, my name 32 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: is Lee Semen, and I have the distinct pleasure to 33 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: head up the festivals and events produced by SCAD Film 34 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: with an incredible support team from all of our SCAD family, 35 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: over four campuses around the world, sixteen thousand students, over 36 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: forty thousand alumni, and seventy countries. GOAD Film was created 37 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: so that we could take full advantage of our SCAD 38 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: expertise and pre eminence and match it to the growing 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: expertise that industry was bringing to Atlanta, UH and create 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: opportunities for a collision of creative minds. And we've been 41 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: able to do that through established festivals like our SCAD 42 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: Savannah Film Festival, which has been in place over twenty years, 43 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: our a TV Fest which will be in its eighth year, 44 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: and this sort of new palette of festivals Animation Fest, 45 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: gaming Fest, and a whole year of events like this 46 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: this one SCAD podcast Weekend. Now, I have a question 47 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: for you, when is the last time that you counted 48 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: to seventy million? Our friends here today counted to seventy 49 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: million in their first season. They counted almost to seventy 50 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: million again, and they're about to count to more than 51 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: seventy million with season three. These guys know what they 52 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: are doing and they are led by Matt Frederick. Please 53 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: join me and welcoming him. Hi, everybody, my name is 54 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick. I am currently a lead executive producer at 55 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: I Heeart Podcasts. We're here in Atlanta were based in 56 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: pont City Market. That's where we make a lot of 57 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: our shows. Back in two thousand six, I got an 58 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: internship at how Stuff Works. It was back on the 59 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: internet when you're on the internet just to read articles. 60 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: Do you remember that time? Does anybody remember a time 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: when that happened? Because How Stuff Works the whole time 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: it had been a thing made articles. A couple of 63 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: years later, we started making videos. So we tried to 64 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: do is take those articles and put them into video format, 65 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: and it worked really well for a while. We created 66 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: things like brain Stuff and one of the shows I 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: created called stuff They Don't want you to Know. It 68 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: was going really well, but there's this other emerging medium 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: called podcasts, and nobody knew really what it was. But 70 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: we figured, well, let's try taking those articles and turn 71 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: them into an audio format that you could just listen 72 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: to instead of having to read it. And from those 73 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: little experimentations from back in two thousand and eight two 74 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: thousand nine, we created some of the biggest podcasts that 75 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: exist on this planet today, Stuff you should Know, Stuff 76 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: you missed in history class, stuff Mom never told you. 77 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: And that was all through the website How Stuff Works, 78 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: which became stuff Media, the podcast arm of that website, 79 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: and it's so weird. We moved to Pont City Market 80 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: we're making all these shows, and we find out there's 81 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: this amazing true crime show unlike anything anybody has ever 82 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: heard before, and it's apparently being produced four floors above 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: our office. We had no idea that was happening. It 84 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: was this just a small group of people. They were 85 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: called Tenderfoot TV, and we were so impressed with the content. 86 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: We thought, Okay, let's contact these guys, Donald Lellbright and 87 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay, let's see what they're up to. We had 88 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: a quick meeting and just over coffee, we decided we 89 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: want to work together, and if we are going to 90 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: work together, what do we want to tackle? What story 91 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: do we want to tell. Both teams simultaneously wanted to 92 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: tell Atlanta's missing and murdered children's story because it was 93 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: not something that was being talked about. We felt like 94 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: it was a story that had been underserved, and it 95 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: was an underserved community in the first place, and we thought, 96 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: let's at least do our best to tell the stories 97 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: of the people who went through this, who lived through this, 98 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: and we created Atlanta Monster Atlanta, Georgia, nineteen seventy nine. 99 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: One by one, kids are going missing with no explanation 100 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: seven of the children have disappeared since March. A black 101 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: thirteen year old boy living in a housing project, good 102 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: in school, a loner working for extra money, and as 103 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: of Thursday night, missing Are you scared? Altogether nine children 104 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: between the ages of seven and fourteen have disappeared in 105 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: the last year. People from outside see this in the 106 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: context of what's happening to black people across the country. 107 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: Missing children have become priority number one at a p D. 108 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: We cannot as a community, as a city, carry on 109 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: business as usual. I want the people of Atlanta and 110 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: the nation to know that this administration is totally color blind. 111 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: When the producers of Up and Vanished in Health Stuff works, 112 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: you present an all new podcast, Atlanta Monster. Officially, according 113 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: to the list, there were twenty three children five adults 114 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: who were killed from nine the picture there is a 115 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: mug shot of Wayne Williams, the man who is still 116 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: in jail right now. He was convicted of killing two adults, 117 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: and we spoke with him extensively for this show. I 118 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: don't know if you guys realized this. There are so 119 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: many people in this city that believe that man killed 120 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: absolutely zero people. It was mind blowing to us to 121 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: know how many people held that as an opinion. We 122 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: thought it was worth talking to him to see what 123 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: he had to say. It premiered in January, and again, 124 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: this is stuff media. At that time, we get acquired 125 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: by I Heart Radio the end of We love the process, 126 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: we love the style, and we wanted to work again 127 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: with tender Foot TV. We're gonna find another time when 128 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: terror was running rampant in this city, when just going 129 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: about your daily life was a problem, and we looked 130 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: to San Francisco. Right at the turn of the Summer 131 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: of Love n nineteen sixty nine, there was what was 132 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: believed to be a man who was killing young people 133 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: in their cars at lovers lanes. This person was writing 134 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: letters to the San Francisco Chronicle and other newspapers. He 135 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: had captured a city, and he had put fear in 136 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: the hearts of everyone living in the entire area from 137 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: Napa Valley to Valleo to San Francisco. In the seventies, 138 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: as it was happening, a lot of us probably thought, Gee, 139 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot going on, But looking back at a 140 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: decade of violence, it was just crazy. It was crazy time. 141 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,239 Speaker 1: Most serial killers don't make any effort to involve media 142 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: or investigators. They're very secretive. They don't want attention. They 143 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: almost want their crimes to go unnoticed. But the idea 144 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: of committing a crime and then calling up the police 145 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: and bragging about it, that's a whole nother level of terror. 146 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: A man who wore a medieval style executioner's hood, who 147 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: has baffled the police and baffled the media. He seems 148 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: to crave publicity. He sent letters and cryptograms to newspapers 149 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: and the police. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, 150 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: no a double murder. I did it here. We are 151 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: fifty years after the first Zodiac killing. In today's world 152 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: of forensics, old cases are being solved. We're talking about 153 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: the most famous cold case in the last century or 154 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: so in terms of it's drama and being unsolved. Who 155 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: doesn't want to know how it turns out, Dear editor, 156 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: this is the Zodiac speaking. If you do not print 157 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: the cipher by the afternoon of Friday, first of August, 158 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: I will go on to kill rampage Friday night. I 159 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: will cruise around all weekend, killing loan people in the night, 160 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: then move on to kill again. The best part of 161 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: it is that when I die, I'll be reborn in 162 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: paradise and all that I have killed will become my slaves. 163 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: From My Heart Radio, How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV, 164 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: this is Monster the Zodiac Killer. That impression of the 165 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: Zodiac Killer. That was an actual letter that was sent 166 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: to the San Francisco Chronicle. Hearing it in that way, 167 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if it has the same effect on you. 168 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: I hope it does. That's kind of the point of it. 169 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: But it really is spine tingling to me to know 170 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: that someone actually wrote that and felt that I wanted 171 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: everybody else to feel that way. It kind of just 172 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: fits that title, doesn't it. Monster whoever that was. So 173 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: here's the deal. We are back with the third iteration 174 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: of the Monster series. We went from one all the 175 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: way back to sixty nine. This year we're going to 176 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: two thousand two, to a time right after nine eleven, 177 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: to a time when the country was in fear already 178 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: and someone came along and struck fear in the hearts 179 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: of all of us. Again. We're gonna tell you all 180 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: about it tonight, because tonight we have the creators of 181 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: the third iteration. It is called Monster d C Sniper. 182 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: Tonight we have the host, Tony Harris, and we have 183 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: two of the producers, Trevor Young and Benjamin Kiebrick. And guys, 184 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: if you'd like to join me on stage, come on up. 185 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: We've got Trevor Young, this is Ben Keebrick. These guys 186 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: are the writers and really the backbone the creators of 187 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: the show. So, Ben, I want to pose this to you. 188 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: Can you tell us kind of a basic overview of 189 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: the case and how you came to learn all the 190 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: information about it? So one thing just to start, So 191 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: I actually I grew up in northern Virginia, so I 192 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: was a high school student when all this stuff was 193 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: going on. But then starting to research it, I realized, 194 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: even though I was there at the time and like 195 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: getting all that local news and stuff, I realized there 196 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: is so much about this case that either I never 197 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: knew or completely forgot about um. And that was one 198 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: of the reasons I wanted to tell this story, as 199 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: I felt like, well, if I don't know any of 200 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: this stuff, then I don't think many people do. So 201 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: October second, two thousand two, one person was shot. The 202 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: next day five people are shot. They're just going about 203 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: their everyday lives. A guy mowing a lawn, people filling 204 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: up their cars with gas, things like that. They seem 205 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: to have no connection to one another, but when they 206 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: analyzed the bullets, they realized that they're all coming from 207 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: the same rifle. There's someone out there kind of shooting 208 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: people and discriminately, and it's kind of like, now, what 209 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: do you do? No one knows is it terrorists, is 210 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: it a serial killer? What's going on. It's a very 211 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: suburban area. Immediately everyone was worried about their kids. A 212 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: couple of days later, there's a shooting at a middle school. 213 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: Outside that middle school, they find a terror card with 214 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: a cryptic note written on it, and kind of the 215 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: story just gets crazier and crazier. When I was doing 216 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: the research, one of the things is it seems like 217 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: there's a lot of misinformation out there. There are some 218 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: good books written about it that kind of cover narrow angles, 219 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: some kind of made for TV documentaries, but it felt 220 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: like no one had really put everything in one place 221 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: where it tried to to really give a feel of 222 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: what it was like to live through that. And that's 223 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: that's the thing that Monster does really well, is putting 224 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: people into a time and a place and kind of 225 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: trying to make our listeners feel what it must have 226 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: been like to go through that. So, Trevor, you tracked 227 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: down so many people and talked with them, tell us 228 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: the different perspectives that we're actually hearing from the show. 229 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: So off the bat, you can expect to hear anywhere 230 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: from forty to fifty people in this podcast. We've over 231 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: the last six to nine months interview just an insane 232 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: amount of people. But I think this was such a 233 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: big story that affected so many people that really that's 234 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: only a tiny fraction of the people we could interview. Right. Um. 235 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: Dr Caroline Namro was a pediatrician. She was just um 236 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: going about her day. She was dropping her kids off 237 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: at school. Uh, and she stopped to get gas on 238 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: October three, and she made eye contact with a man 239 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: and didn't really think anything of it. Then all of 240 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: a sudden, she hears a pop and the man goes 241 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: down on her car, bleeding and says, call the cops. 242 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: So she tries to resuscitate this man. She's calling the police. 243 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: She you heard her on the nine one one call 244 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: on that teaser, and she's doing I think what all 245 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: of us would do. She's just kind of reacting. She's 246 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: frankly kind of freaking out. I don't know how I 247 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 1: would react. I don't even know if I could call 248 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: nine one one. She told us her medical training kick 249 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: dan and she was able to go into gear and 250 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: really try and help this person. And it's a phenomenal 251 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: story to hear her tell it, and it's one of 252 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: the first things you hear in the podcast. There's a 253 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: lot of incredible stories like that, and I think what 254 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: we really want to do is really tell them to 255 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: their like full extent, to really let you know the 256 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: full story of what happened with each and every one 257 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: of these people from every perspective. So we're speaking with witnesses, 258 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: we're speaking with victims, families, were speaking with the law 259 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: enforcement officials from all of the varying organizations that were 260 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: a part of this massive manhunt. And one of the 261 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: people that was there at that time was this award 262 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: winning journalist named Tony Harris. You have been in television 263 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: for a long time, my friend, stop right there. When 264 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: when is the first time? Am I not allowed to know? 265 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: Was what was first TV gig? For real? My first 266 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: TV gig was eight two eight two. The first time 267 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: you're yeah, and you have been working consistently this whole time. 268 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: Knock would Yeah, I just want to know, why are 269 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: you taking all of your TV talents and putting them 270 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: into a pott Oh that's easy. Look, when you sign 271 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: up for this role as a journalist, you know what 272 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: you're saying to anyone who will listen to you is 273 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: that you want to tell amazing stories. You want to 274 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: dig deep, and you want to share those stories. You 275 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: want to investigate, you want to uncover, and you want 276 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: to report. That's what you sign up for when you 277 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: say you want to be a journalist, and that's what 278 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: I did forever ago. And once you do that, you 279 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: want to find as many venues as possible to tell 280 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: amazing stories. So sure, I've I've done that work at CNN, 281 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: I did that work for Al Jazeera in Dohan and 282 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: then again in New York. I have been really fortunate 283 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: to cover amazing stories, everything from the Southeast Asia tsunami 284 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: to Katrina to the Arab spring. And this is an 285 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: opportunity that I think it's really special now. This world 286 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: that you guys have created gives journalists like me an 287 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: opportunity to dig, to do the deep dive this is 288 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: a really deep dive, and I mean, I think that's important. 289 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: That's an important point to make here. So it's not 290 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: a situation that you see a lot in television news 291 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: where you got a fifteen seconds sound bite from someone. 292 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: You get an opportunity to actually hear someone explain not 293 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: just the moment, but what they were feeling and what 294 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: they were going through emotionally in that moment. That's why 295 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: I feel blessed to have this opportunity to tell this 296 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: story that I have kind of intimate knowledge of. You 297 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: remember this story, right, I mean you remember this. I 298 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: just need to feel some energy back from from the audience. 299 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: You do remember the story, right. This is two thousand two, 300 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: and I, um wow. I was working in Baltimore as 301 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: a news anchor for the Fox affiliate there and on 302 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: the second I remember us getting a call in our 303 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: newsroom about our shooting in Montgomery County, which was odd 304 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: and weird because you know, as was mentioned, Montgomery County 305 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: is kind of this pristine community high net Worth County 306 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: in Maryland. That would have led our newscast that night, 307 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: and the next day all all hell broke lose um 308 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: five people killed on the third and at that point 309 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: as my news brain was working at the time, I 310 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: knew we had a massive story and not enough people. 311 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: I'm thinking resources to cover the story. I'm thinking about 312 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: how do we get the information to people. We weren't 313 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: getting anything from police. Everyone was afraid that that it 314 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: was terrorism, and we just didn't have enough resources to 315 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: cover the story. And I don't know it. At some 316 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: point during the twenty three days of panic and Hell, 317 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: I can remember sort of wait a minute, You're you're 318 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: trying to figure out because as an anchor, you're getting 319 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: people on who are telling the story. And I think 320 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: in many cases we might have been part of the 321 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: problem and telling the story because we became as fixated 322 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: as anyone with the idea of the white van. You 323 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: remember the white panel truck. Remember that, how that sort 324 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: of dominated the story. And then the next thing was 325 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: all of the leaks that we were reporting on, and 326 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: how some of those leaks were coming from investigators close 327 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: to the case. So you're just conflicted, and you're wondering 328 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: if if you're doing a service to the public. But 329 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: we have people viewers who were clamoring to know everything 330 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: there is to know about this case, and so you're 331 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: feeling conflicted in everything else, and and I'm still thinking 332 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: as an anchor, as a reporter trying to get information. 333 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: At some point, and I don't know when, At some point, 334 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 1: um I started to think like a human being, and 335 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: I started to think about the people who had been killed, 336 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: their lives, their families. And then I it must have 337 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: been around the time when Iron Brown, thirteen year old, 338 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: he had a Tasker Middle School shot. Yeah, that's right, 339 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: that's right at Tasker Middle School. And I think it 340 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: was shortly or certainly in that moment, I began to 341 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: stop thinking about this purely as a story, with all 342 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: the adrenaline that goes along with being, you know, a 343 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: reporter or anchor on a huge story with national and 344 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: international interest, and I started to think about myself as 345 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: a father or two young children, and the story kind 346 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: of changes for me at that point. So there are 347 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: two routes I want to go with that, Steve Antoni. 348 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: The first one is how making a show like this 349 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: affects you when you are speaking to somebody like this, 350 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: then you're perhaps in an editing bay and listening to 351 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: it over and over again and really trying to pull 352 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: out the truth and the emotion in something horrific that 353 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: you're listening to. How has that affected you, guys, Has 354 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: it affected you guys at all? Or how do you 355 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: think about it? Well, I think all are most of 356 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: us here come from a journalism background, and I think 357 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: when you work in journalism for so many years, um, 358 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: you kind of in a way learn how to harden 359 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: yourself when you're talking and hearing and dealing with these stories. 360 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: So you know, when you go into this, when you're 361 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: in the moment you're talking to this person, you're doing 362 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: two things. You're you're one trying to get the story, 363 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: get the information really like talk with this person, empathize 364 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: with them, But you know, at the end of the 365 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: day also you are trying to connect with them on 366 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: an emotional level. And I think in the podcasting world, 367 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: we're trying to do that more over longer periods of time, 368 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: and it's harder to not let that affect you. It's 369 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: hard not to feel more emotionally invest in these people 370 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: when you were talking with them on multiple occasions, sometimes 371 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: for hours at a time. You know, these are not 372 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: like TV interviews that you see on a talk show. 373 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: These are people that when you leave the room with them, 374 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: or you get off the phone with them. You feel 375 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: like you know each other and there's a piece of 376 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: each other that you've shared that you are probably gonna 377 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: remember forever and you can't take back. And I personally 378 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: have walked away from a lot of interviews I don't 379 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: want to say shaken, but feeling like I had experienced 380 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: something myself that somebody had explained to me because they 381 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: you know, we're so open with me, because they went 382 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: to so much detail, because they gave me something so vivid, 383 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: I almost felt like I'd been there. And it's good 384 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: for us to hear that stuff because then we know 385 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: we have something powerful. One of the major purposes of 386 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: these shows is to learn something from the experience of 387 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: all of the people that have gone through all of 388 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: these things. People who have, you know, been on the 389 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: side of the law, chasing somebody down, or on on 390 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: the wrong side of a gun. It's basic storytelling stuff, 391 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: but it's also very important to us when we're making 392 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: a show like this, looking at the big picture and 393 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: thinking about ourselves. Then I want to jump to you 394 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 1: really quickly because one of the ways we do that 395 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: is to kind of time travel. In these shows, and 396 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: play archival footage from news organizations. Talk to me about 397 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: how we're using archival footage in this and how that's 398 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: helping to shape the story. But it's also telling us 399 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: some things about what was going on between law enforcement 400 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: and the media. So this is kind of an interesting 401 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: case from an archival perspective because it turned into a 402 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: national news story. I mean, you have George W. Bush 403 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: talking about it. You know, it's covered by all the stations, 404 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: and and there are kind of these massive trials that 405 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: happened afterwards where things like the nine one one calls 406 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: got entered into that that public records. We have a 407 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: lot of kind of primary documents of kind of what 408 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: was going on at that time, how people thought about it, 409 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: you know, people calling in to call in radio shows 410 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: to breasts, their their fears and their concerns. So we 411 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: really had a ton of stuff to work with and 412 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: and try to incorporate that kind of whenever we could. 413 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: Um and one of our recent episodes there is kind 414 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: of a particularly harrowing one call that we had a 415 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: big internal debate about, you know, whether to use and 416 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: how much to use, and there's kind of this balance 417 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: of you know, you want to respect the people that 418 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: went through these things, but it's also it's something that 419 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: really happened, and so kind of to accurately present what 420 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: was going on, do you want to kind of show 421 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: that in its kind of most dark and brutal fashion 422 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: there was tension occurring between the media and law enforcement 423 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: about what information should be put out into the public. 424 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: This is what I want to learn from you, Tony, 425 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: So from the newsperson's the journalist perspective, what do you 426 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: think about if information gets lead to you that is 427 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: really important for people's understanding about this case, even though 428 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: you know it's important to the case. Look, are you 429 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: going to hinder the investigation? Obvious at CNN when Jazira 430 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: got the Alqaeda tapes and you know, there was a 431 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: lot of back and forth and ringing of hands and 432 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: a lot of criticism from inside our own building of 433 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: Jazeera for going with those those tapes. When the reality 434 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: is if if we had gotten the tapes, we would 435 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,479 Speaker 1: have we would have run those tapes, right. And so 436 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: if you get information like that that you know is 437 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: really hot and really provocative, what do you do with it? Well, 438 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: there's an editorial process. We all know that you just 439 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: described an editorial process, and I think you've got a way. 440 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: It's all that that's the old question of the public's 441 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: right to know, right, and the extent to which sharing 442 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: that information might hinder an investigation. I think there are 443 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: their circumstances where during that case we got it wrong. 444 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: Channel nine and the Washington Post should not have gone 445 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: with the information, in my opinion, on the Tarot card. 446 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: The reason they did is the fact that the writing 447 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: on the Tarot card essentially eliminated the thought that this 448 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: was foreign terrorism, right, was the reason I believe those 449 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: news organizations decided to go with that. I think it's 450 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: always the sort of balancing act, and there are serious 451 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: editorial meetings about this, and I think there are some 452 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: cases where we absolutely got it wrong. We didn't challenge 453 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: in the way that we should have, the whole idea 454 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: of the white panel truck. So, because you've been here 455 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: today and you've been hearing us talk about this, when 456 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: you go outside today and head home, all you're gonna 457 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: see our white panel trucks, that's all you're gonna see. 458 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: And so I suppose that's that's the way I feel 459 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: about it. We got we got a lot of things wrong. Um, 460 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: we should have questioned more closely. Uh, we should have 461 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: pushed back a lot more aggressively, but we were We 462 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: were operating at a moment when this nation was scared shipless. 463 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: Can I say that I just did? We just got 464 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: a note? He said, absolutely not, Tony, Tony, you have 465 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: to leave now. They're they're coming to get you too. 466 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: Could I add something to that? Yeah, police, So there 467 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: was another interesting element the way the media and the 468 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: investigation was interacting. And then maybe you can help me 469 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: with this. The snipers, the tarot card was one of 470 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: their kind of communications, but there were all these other 471 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: communications as well, all these demands for money, all these 472 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: demands for police to say certain things publicly. So both 473 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: the snipers and the investigation ended up using the media 474 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, as their own kind of megaphones. 475 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: They were kind of talking through the media at each 476 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: other because they weren't interacting directly, the investigators and the 477 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: snipers for the most part. There were a few phone calls, 478 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: but for the most part in the in a big sense, 479 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: they were really using press conferences and newscasts to get 480 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: information on both sides. And that kind of goes into 481 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: the archival things. So then you have actually these press 482 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: conferences of the chief of police for Montgomery County communicating 483 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: to the snipers and kind of, you know, none of 484 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: the reporters or the public at home really knows what's 485 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: going on. Is kind of these coded, cryptic messages that 486 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: are responding to the messages from the snipers, and it 487 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: it really was just kind of this very bizarre scenario 488 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: or it's kind of hard for the media to know 489 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: how to cover it, how much to cover it. Yeah, 490 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: but then that doesn't and you're not making this point, 491 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: but I will. It doesn't. It doesn't explain away the 492 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: irresponsibility in my opinion of local television stations, national networks 493 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: putting every Tom Dick and Harry On who claims to 494 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: be a law enforcement expert just doing rank speculation. And 495 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: that continues today. So that's kind of a pet peeve 496 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: of mine. Folks who are not a part of the investigation. 497 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: We're going to take some questions. Is anybody out there 498 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: have any questions, because if you don't, I'll keep asking them. 499 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: I have a question about your video trailers. So as 500 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: a podcast, you know it's strictly audio, um, but you've 501 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: created these incredible video trailers. Can you talk a little 502 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: bit about the benefit of that and why that's a 503 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: great question. I want to hear this answer. Okay, you 504 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: want me to just keep answering these okay, cool um. 505 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: Video trailers I think are very, very beneficial for any podcast, 506 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: and I think it's mostly what we use it for 507 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: social That's one of the major aspects is just being 508 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: able to put something on say Instagram or some other 509 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: platform that you can watch and get people excited about, 510 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: especially if you're telling a story that's already exciting just inherently, 511 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: but if you can show something that's exciting, that can 512 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: only make your show better and make your audience more interested. Uh. 513 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: In our case, we're working with Tenderfoot TV, guys who 514 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: came from video production. I have a video production degree, like, 515 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: so we we would get together and make these pretty, 516 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: I think, pretty great little video trailers. The other reason 517 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: that you want a video trailer, I think, especially if 518 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: you think your story is good enough to translate into 519 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: other mediums. One of the big things is happening with 520 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: podcasts now is that TV is very interested. TV producers 521 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: across the planet are interested in taking your podcast and 522 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: trying to turn it into a television show. You've done 523 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: all the work exactly. You've got the story, you've got 524 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: the pre production, you've got everything. You've got interviews, you've 525 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: got all the people that you want to get on camera. 526 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's laid out for you. If and as 527 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: a TV executive that's not me, but as some TV 528 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: executive out there, I can imagine it being very great 529 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: if you walk in with essentially a sizzle reel, so 530 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: you will hear this podcast and and I guarantee you 531 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: you will think, Wow, that could be on television today. 532 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: And this is what I wanted to get into before 533 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: we switched over. It's it's exactly that. The way that 534 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: you guys use music, and the editing style and the 535 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: way you cut to and from a commercial, and the 536 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: cliffhangers and all of that. It gets me so pumped 537 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: and excited and scared and sad. Episode two of the show, 538 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: I love it. I cry every time I listened to 539 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: that episode. It moves me in the way a really 540 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: great HBO show or or some other television show does. 541 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: And it's because of the music, because of the stories, 542 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: the way you guys are putting it together, and there's 543 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: this voice that keeps talking to you, but it's just 544 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: so smooth and awesome whatever. So the only thing I 545 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: would add to that is that I've been making films 546 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: and I've had a television show on Discovery I D 547 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: so I've been in this true crime space for four 548 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: almost five years now, and what these guys are doing 549 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: in their storytelling rivals anything then I've been connected to 550 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: in true crime. So I don't get an opportunity often 551 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: to say really nice things to about these guys in 552 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,479 Speaker 1: front of a room of people. But they are that 553 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: good at what they do, and if you haven't listened 554 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: to it, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about when 555 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: you listen. Thank you, And going back to the kind 556 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: of music for a second. I think one of the 557 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: interesting things about Atlanta Monster in the Monster series and 558 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: I guess up and vanished too. It's one of the 559 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: first kind of big podcasts that didn't come out directly 560 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: from public radio, you know, so like Cereal sarracan Ex 561 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: was on This American Life, a lot of people making 562 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: podcast kind of came from that background. Um, I think 563 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: this was one of the first podcast series to kind 564 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: of be made by someone who really had more of 565 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: like a TV aesthetic, and that goes into the way 566 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: you cut things, the way you use music, and we 567 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: try to keep the journalism, We try to keep that 568 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: same rigor, but maybe the way things are timed in 569 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: space and the musical cues a little bit more similar 570 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: to a TV documentary than you know, a standard public 571 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: radio story or something. Well, and they're not here tonight, 572 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: but I think we have a lot of that to 573 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: Tenterfoot TV absolutely frankly invented a lot of that model. 574 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: They came from kind of a documentary producing background. They 575 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: kind of brought that to podcasting with Up and Vanish 576 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: and then Atlanta Monster. Uh So, I mean they have 577 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: taught us a lot how to do that, and we 578 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: talked about music a lot and we should shut out 579 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: maps makeup. In Vanity Set. He does all of the soundtracks, 580 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: and I think he's really another team member, and I 581 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: think that's also kind of a unique thing to kind of, 582 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, have one person doing the whole soundtrack, and 583 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: like we go back and forth about what we want 584 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: and he sends us stuff that's super inspiring and that's 585 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: a big part of our process. Those guys, they make 586 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: such exciting content, and really what we're trying to do 587 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: is you hit on the head. We were trying to 588 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: balance the excitement that they bring with this journalism murder, 589 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: and I think that's what we're achieving this season more 590 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: than we have ever before. So we're gonna do something here. 591 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna play this quick clip. This is kind of 592 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: an example of the style, really using music, using a 593 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: cliffhanger to get you excited about wanting to listen to 594 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: either the rest of the show or the next episode. 595 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: So here we go next time on Monster d C Sniper, 596 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: I need an ambulance right here. God came out from 597 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: behind the store and uh and shop Paul arupa and uh. 598 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: Leading The pressure of the blood inside me was collapsing 599 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: my lungs. He drove and I shot because I was 600 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: the smallest. And back there later they told me, Oh, 601 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: they found you. John sent Lee to your door pretending 602 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: to be a salesperson. Oh, ma'am, I am buying one 603 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: that was gonna for somebody to me. Have you been 604 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: goot you? He said, So, don't get this twisted. Don't 605 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: believe that tim million dollar madness. He came there to 606 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: kill you, That said Malvo has talked about Mohammed having 607 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: a plan and to go create a utopian society in Canada. 608 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: Here you okay, Thank you guys, Thank you so much. UM. 609 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: Everybody's in the download DC Sniper. If you haven't done 610 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: Zodi at Killer or Atlanta Monster, download that one too. 611 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: Thank you to the guys from my heart, UM, and 612 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: thank you to all of you for making our first 613 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: god podcast weekend. It won't be the last watch out. 614 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: It was a success and we appreciate your contribution to that. 615 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 1: Scad film dot com has all the information you need 616 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: about upcoming events that we'll be doing. There is a 617 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: newsletter you can sign up for that. You can also 618 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 1: stop by SCAD dot e du to learn more about 619 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: everything that SCAD produces is here and in Savannah, we 620 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: have a great fashion museum called SCAD Fash. We have 621 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: events throughout the year and we really hope that we'll 622 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: see more of you at them. Thank you and good 623 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: night Monster. DC Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast hosted 624 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: by Tony Harris and produced by iHeart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. 625 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf 626 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio alongside producers Trevor Young, ben Kiebrick, 627 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: and Josh Thain. Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright are executive 628 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Steadman 629 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: and Christina Dana. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. 630 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: If you haven't already, be sure to check out the 631 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: first two seasons at Lanta Monster and Monster the Zodiac Killer. 632 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: If you have questions or comments, email us at Monster 633 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: at i heeart media dot com, or you can call 634 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 1: us at one eight three three to eight five six 635 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: six six seven. Thanks for listening.