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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where I'm able

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Speaker 1: to get back to focusing entirely on women's sports now

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Speaker 1: that my Chicago Bears have lost. Football season is over.

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Speaker 1: There is no football. The Super Bowl does not exist.

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Speaker 2: Please respect my privacy at this time.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, January twentieth, and on today's show, we'll be

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Speaker 1: chatting with Team USA athlete and activist Chris Mosure. I

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Speaker 1: caught up with him last Thursday after his trip to

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Speaker 1: DC where the Supreme Court was hearing oral arguments regarding

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Speaker 1: trans participation in sports. He discussed why he stayed on

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Speaker 1: his side of the protest, how to have conversations with

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Speaker 1: people who are ignorant or uninformed, what he thinks of

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote solutions for trans inclusion in sports, and how.

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Speaker 2: He uses joy as a form of resistance.

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Speaker 1: Plus a different kind of Sunday scaries, turning beats and deborched,

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Speaker 1: and a cross border rivalry over crowd size continues. It's

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Speaker 1: all coming up right after this. Welcome back, Shay. Here's

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Speaker 1: what you need to know today. Let's start with the PWHL.

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Speaker 1: Washington d C made a good argument for getting a

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Speaker 1: PWHL team on Sunday, as seventeen, two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: eight people showed up to see the New York Sirens

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Speaker 1: defeat the Montreal Victoire two to one at Capitol One

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Speaker 1: Arena as part of the PWHL's ongoing Takeover Tour. You remember,

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Speaker 1: those are games in neutral sites cities that don't yet

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Speaker 1: have a team. This attendance marks a new record for

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Speaker 1: a women's hockey game in the United States. After a

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Speaker 1: one to one first period, the Sirens took the lead

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Speaker 1: in the second when rookie and Turkowski scored her first

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Speaker 1: career goal, the eventual game winner. And while the US

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Speaker 1: has a new record to boast about thanks to DC,

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Speaker 1: Canada is always happy to remind us why they're still

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Speaker 1: winning this rivalry, because one day earlier, an even bigger

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Speaker 1: crowd of seventeen thousand, eight hundred and fifty six fans

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Speaker 1: packed Toronto Scotia Bank Arena, home of the mnba's Raptors

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Speaker 1: and NHL's Maple Leafs, for the PWHL's third annual Battle

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Speaker 1: on Bay Street. Darryl Watt scored two minutes and sixteen

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Speaker 1: seconds into overtime to lift the Toronto Scepters to a

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Speaker 1: two to one win over the Vancouver Goldeneyes, and that

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Speaker 1: one scepters have now won all three annual Battle on

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Speaker 1: Bay Street contests dating back to the league's inaugural season

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. More PWHL and just a casual

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Speaker 1: six player trade that rounded out the weekend. On Sunday night,

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Speaker 1: the Ottawa Charge finalized a multiplayer trade with the Vancouver Goldeneyes,

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Speaker 1: sending forwards Anna Mikesner, Anna Shokina, and Mannon McMahon to

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Speaker 1: Vancouver in exchange for forwards michaela Cava and Brooke mcquig,

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Speaker 1: along with defender Emma Greco. The trades at a league

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Speaker 1: record for most players involved in one deal, and it

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Speaker 1: took place just ten days before the PWHL enters its

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Speaker 1: month long break for the Olympics. After the weekend's games,

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Speaker 1: the Charge are in sixth place with seventeen points, while

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Speaker 1: their trade partner Vancouver is at the bottom of the

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Speaker 1: table with thirteen. More hockey Remember that new US women's

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Speaker 1: hockey attendance.

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Speaker 2: Record I just told you about.

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Speaker 1: Well, women's bean pot organizers are hoping it doesn't stand long.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to break that record tonight when TD Garden

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Speaker 1: hosts the Women's bean Pot Championship game featuring Boston University

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Speaker 1: in Harvard. US hockey great and four time Olympian Angela

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Speaker 1: Rigea will be on the call for that one. You

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Speaker 1: can catch it locally on Nessen and nationally on ESPN Plus,

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Speaker 1: and will include the ticket link in the show notes

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Speaker 1: if you want.

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Speaker 2: To watch in person.

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Speaker 1: To college hoops and another busy weekend, Let's start with

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Speaker 1: Texas Tech, who entered the weekend as one of the

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Speaker 1: three remaining undefeated teams in Division one women's hoops, but

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Speaker 1: they saw their streak end on Saturday, with the number

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Speaker 1: seventeen ranked Raiders dropping a sixty five to fifty nine

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Speaker 1: decision to visiting unranked Kansas State.

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Speaker 2: More on the two perfect.

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Speaker 1: Teams left standing in just a minute, but first let's

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Speaker 1: get to Sunday, when the Sunday scaries hit for another

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Speaker 1: batch of ranked teams who ended up on the wrong

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Speaker 1: side of the win loss column, starting with Iowa State,

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Speaker 1: a team that just can't seem to stop the bleeding.

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Speaker 1: The nineteenth ranked Cyclones lost their fifth straight game, an

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Speaker 1: eighty six to fifty eight route at the hands of

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Speaker 1: unranked Oklahoma State head coach Bill Fenley, star Audie Crooks,

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Speaker 1: and the Cyclones started the season with an historic fourteen

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Speaker 1: to er record, matching the program's best start ever, but

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Speaker 1: they haven't won a game in the new year. More

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Speaker 1: upset Sunday, unranked Mississippi State took out number seven Kentucky

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Speaker 1: and unranked Georgia upset number sixteen Ole miss but two

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Speaker 1: top five teams did grab important wins. The Texas Longhorns

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Speaker 1: managed to apply a tourniquet to their losing streak after

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Speaker 1: they fell to number two South Carolina sixty eight sixty

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Speaker 1: five last Thursday. That was their second straight loss and

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Speaker 1: their first time posting back to back els since November

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. On Sunday, the Longhorns bounce back, annihilating

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Speaker 1: unranked Texas A and M eighty to thirty five, and

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Speaker 1: number three UCLA stayed hot, routing number twelve Maryland ninety

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Speaker 1: six sixty seven, the program's largest margin of victory over

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Speaker 1: an ap top fifteen teams since nineteen ninety two. The

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Speaker 1: weekend's games meant another shake up in the rankings, with

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Speaker 1: the top six teams staying put, but Michigan moving up

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Speaker 1: a spot to seventh and Louisville TCU and Iowa rounding

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Speaker 1: out the top ten. It's the first time the Iowa

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Speaker 1: Hawkeyes have cracked the top ten since the final poll

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Speaker 1: of Caitlin Clark's senior season. Meantime, Kentucky f all four

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Speaker 1: spots to number eleven after the aforementioned lost to Mississippi State.

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Speaker 1: Duke winners of ten straight found their way back into

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Speaker 1: the poll at number twenty one, while Iowa State, as

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Speaker 1: we mentioned, losers of five in a row, dropped out

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Speaker 1: of the top twenty five entirely. So back to the

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Speaker 1: two remaining undefeated teams. On Monday, both of them, number

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Speaker 1: one Yukon and number five Vanderbilt, put their perfect marks

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Speaker 1: on the line. Fun fact about these two squads, Vanderbilt

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Speaker 1: head coach Shay Ralph played for and coached under Yukon

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Speaker 1: headman Gino Oriema. Ralph was a Husky from ninety six

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Speaker 1: to one, winning a national championship in two thousand, earning

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Speaker 1: Most Outstanding Player honors that year. She won six more

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Speaker 1: national titles with Yukon as an assistant coach under Gino

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Speaker 1: from eight to twenty twenty one, when she left to

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Speaker 1: take over the Vanderbilt program, and now pupil and teacher

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Speaker 1: lead the last two perfect teams standing What a story?

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Speaker 2: So how they do Monday Night Well.

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Speaker 1: Yukon extended its overall win streak to thirty five straight

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Speaker 1: a perfect nineteen to oh this season with an eighty

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Speaker 1: five forty seven win over Notre Dame. Sarah Strong had

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Speaker 1: eighteen points in the victory, including the one thousandth point

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Speaker 1: of her career, making her the third fastest Yukon player

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Speaker 1: to hit the milestone, behind only Paigebeckers and Maya Moore.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty good company.

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Speaker 1: The win was the Husky's largest margin of victory against

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Speaker 1: the Fighting Irish, and it was their fourteenth straight win

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Speaker 1: by at least twenty five points dominance.

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Speaker 2: Vanderbilt also stayed perfect.

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Speaker 1: They got a seventy two to sixty nine win over

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Speaker 1: number seven Michigan in the Credit Scott King Classic at

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Speaker 1: the Prudential Center in New Jersey. The Commodore's led by

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Speaker 1: seventeen points in the first half before they let the

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Speaker 1: Wolverines get within two points with just two minutes remaining,

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Speaker 1: but Vandy freshman guard Aubrey Galvin hit a late free

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Speaker 1: throw and finished with twenty points on the day. To

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Speaker 1: help the Commodores get the win and improve to nineteen

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Speaker 1: to zero. The other half of that doubleheader saw number

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Speaker 1: twelve Ohio State upset number nine TCU seventy one sixty

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Speaker 1: nine behind twenty two points from Chance Gray and eighteen

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Speaker 1: from Jelani Cambridge.

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Speaker 2: It was a special day for Chance Gray to go off.

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Speaker 1: The senior guard's great grandfather, Benjamin Hooks, worked with Martin

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Speaker 1: Luther King Junior and was at one time the executive

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Speaker 1: director of the NAACP. Said Gray after the game, quote,

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Speaker 1: this is obviously a very important holiday. I was happy

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Speaker 1: to be a part of it here end quote. More

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Speaker 1: Hoops Athletes Unlimited has announced the full list of players

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Speaker 1: who will compete in the upcoming AU Pro Basketball season,

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Speaker 1: a roster featuring twenty returning players and twenty newcomers. Tina Charles,

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Speaker 1: the WNBA's career leader in rebounds and field goals, is

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Speaker 1: among those players making their AU debut this season, the

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Speaker 1: fifth season of AU Hoops. Other headliners include WNBA vets

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Speaker 1: Alicia Clark, Isabel Harrison, and Ariel Atkins. We'll link to

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Speaker 1: the full roster and the season schedule in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: The four week season begins February fourth, in Nashville. Sticking

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Speaker 1: with hoops, Britney Griner is making lemonade out of lemons, or,

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Speaker 1: perhaps more fittingly, borsched out of beats. The WNBA star

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Speaker 1: has co founded a new company called Zenjet to help

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Speaker 1: travelers carry prescription medication across international borders. According to Zenjet's website,

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Speaker 1: the company's basically a form of insurance that offers legal

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Speaker 1: assistance if you're detained or have your meds confiscated while traveling. Grinder,

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Speaker 1: of course, spent two hundred and ninety three days in

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Speaker 1: Russian custody in twenty twenty two for carrying point seven

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Speaker 1: grams of medically prescribed cannabis oil into the country. She

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Speaker 1: told USA Today, quote I never want anybody to go

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Speaker 1: through what I went through.

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Speaker 2: End quote.

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Speaker 1: Quick aside, did y'all watch the latest season of the

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Speaker 1: Morning Show with the whole Russian detention plot line? Because

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Speaker 1: I couldn't stop thinking about Brittany, and honestly, my heart

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Speaker 1: broke for her all over again while I was watching it,

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Speaker 1: and it reminded me how miraculous it is to see

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Speaker 1: how she's recovered and gotten back into basketball and is

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Speaker 1: thriving again. Not sure if Griner watches that show, but

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Speaker 1: if she's looking to it for a little light viewing,

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Speaker 1: I hope someone gives her a warning. First to the

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Speaker 1: slopes where alpine skier Lindsey Vaughn keeps giving us more

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Speaker 1: reasons to think the ultimate comeback, i e. More Olympic

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Speaker 1: medals is possible. Vaughn competed in two races at a

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Speaker 1: World Cup stop in Tarvizio, Italy, over the weekend, finishing

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Speaker 1: on the podium in both. On Saturday, the forty one

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Speaker 1: year old finished third in a downhill behind Italy's Nicole

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Speaker 1: de lago in Germany's Kira vital Inkleman. Then on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: Vaughn placed second in the Super G, with Germany's Emma

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Speaker 1: Eiker winning the race and Chechias Esther Ledetska finishing third. Also,

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Speaker 1: here's a fun fact about Ladetska, who is an absolutely

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Speaker 1: incredible athlete who competes in both alpine skiing and snowboarding.

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Speaker 1: She burst onto the scene at the twenty eighteen Pyeongchang

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Speaker 1: Winter Olympics when, despite being a long shot for a medal,

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Speaker 1: she shocked everyone by winning gold in alpine skiing SUPERG,

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Speaker 1: followed by gold in snowboardings parallel giant slalom, where she

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Speaker 1: was the favorite. In the years since, she's continued to

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Speaker 1: compete in both sports and excel, but she was forced

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Speaker 1: to make a tough choice heading into the Milan Courtina Games.

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Speaker 1: Last season, she won bronze and alpine skiing's downhill event

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Speaker 1: at the World Championships and gold in snowboardings parallel giant slalom,

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Speaker 1: but both events are scheduled for the same day in Italy, Sunday,

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Speaker 1: February eighth. After trying to get the schedule changed, Ladetsko

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Speaker 1: is forced to choose opting to compete in snowboard ding's

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Speaker 1: parallel giant slalom, where she's aiming for a third straight

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Speaker 1: gold medal. She's expected to beat in alpine Super g

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Speaker 1: a few days later, and Sunday's podium finish is a

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Speaker 1: good indicator that she could contend for another medal in

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Speaker 1: her so called weaker alpine skiing event. And if you

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Speaker 1: were confused by any of the events I just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: don't worry. Our upcoming Olympics one O one episode will

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Speaker 1: help you better understand all the different skiing and snowboarding

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Speaker 1: events to the NWSL and a few player moves to

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Speaker 1: tell you about. Let's start with North Carolina. Over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: the Courage completed a transfer of longtime player and captain

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Speaker 1: Denis O'Sullivan to Liverpool. O'Sullivan, who also plays for the

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Speaker 1: Irish national team, departs North Carolina as the club's all

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Speaker 1: time appearance leader, having logged one hundred eighty six games

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Speaker 1: during her nine seasons with the club. Moving on to

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Speaker 1: the San Diego Wave, the club announced it is mutually

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Speaker 1: agreed to part ways with Delphine Cascarino, who was a

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Speaker 1: finalist for NWSL MVP last season. Cascarino, who joined the

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Speaker 1: team in twenty twenty four after nine seasons with Oe Leon,

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Speaker 1: said in a farewell message to Wave fans that she

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Speaker 1: wanted to play closer to home, and on Monday, the

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Speaker 1: French national team member inked a deal to join the

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Speaker 1: London City Lionesses of the Women's Super League. Worth noting

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Speaker 1: Cascarino is the fourth San Diego wavestarter to leave in

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Speaker 1: the off season to the WNBA, And some interesting reporting

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Speaker 1: from friend at the show, Annie Constable for Front Office Sports.

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Speaker 1: You remember back in twenty twenty two, the WNBA sold

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Speaker 1: a sixteen percent equity stake in the league for seventy

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Speaker 1: five million dollars to a large group that included several

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Speaker 1: WNBA and MNBA owners, MNBA Great Paugasol, former US Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State Condolliz Rice, and Nike, among others, giving the

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Speaker 1: league funds that it used to invest in branding and

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Speaker 1: marketing efforts. But in the last four years, the value

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Speaker 1: of the league and that sixteen percent steak has drastically increased.

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Speaker 1: Per costable sources, the league is now looking into buying

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Speaker 1: back that sixteen percent stake, though it's still in the

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Speaker 1: quote unquote exploratory stages of that process. Per Annie's story. Quote,

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Speaker 1: experts believe the muddled structure is hindering the league as

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Speaker 1: players and owners try to hash out a new collective

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Speaker 1: bargaining agreement end quote.

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Speaker 2: We'll keep you posted.

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Speaker 1: As we learn more, and in the meantime, we'll link

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Speaker 1: to Anny's story in the show notes. Back to Soccer,

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Speaker 1: where two of the Goats went head to head over

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Speaker 1: the weekend. On Saturday, Alex Morgan and Mia Hamm launched

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Speaker 1: the Gold Cup, a new celebrity charity soccer match benefiting

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Speaker 1: both of their charitable foundations. Morgan and ham each captained

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Speaker 1: a team with rosters including former national team player Kelly O'Hara,

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Speaker 1: LPGA champion Michelle Wee West and retired w star in

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Speaker 1: front of the show Diana Tarassi. The sold out game

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Speaker 1: was at USC's Rollinson Stadium in LA and Team Morgan

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Speaker 1: emerged victorious over Team Ham. It wasn't clear from all

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Speaker 1: the social posts whether the game was close or not,

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Speaker 1: but friend of the show Julie Foudy, who quote unquote

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Speaker 1: played in the game. Air quotes Foudy's described Morgan's squad

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Speaker 1: as quote a team of young pros and said she

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Speaker 1: was quote Soris schite on Monday.

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Speaker 2: Foudy, We're just impressed you got out there at all.

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Speaker 2: I was invited to play.

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Speaker 1: In this game as well, with freakin' Mia and Alex

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Speaker 1: and Tarassi and Foudy and my stupid spine of dust

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Speaker 1: sidelined me.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry. Definitely won't be taking that regret all the

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Speaker 2: way to the grave. I'm handling it super well. Just

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Speaker 2: skin bullshitin shit.

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Speaker 1: To college gymnastics, where two time Olympian Jordan Chiles had

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Speaker 1: jaws dropping. Over the weekend, the UCLA senior executed her

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Speaker 1: first ever perfect ten on the vault on Saturday, sticking

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Speaker 1: the landing so well she seemed to even surprise herself

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Speaker 1: before she was enveloped in hugs from teammates and coaches.

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Speaker 1: The vault featured a double twisting your chenko, which is

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Speaker 1: a round off onto the springboard, a backhand sprang onto

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Speaker 1: the vault, and a layout somersault with.

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Speaker 2: Two full twists before landing two.

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Speaker 1: We'll link to a video of the vault in the

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Speaker 1: show notes so you can watch it a few times

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Speaker 1: and try to figure out how a human could possibly

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Speaker 1: do all of that in the air.

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Speaker 2: Chiles is now just one step away.

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Speaker 1: From a career Jim Slam of scoring perfect tens on

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Speaker 1: all four apparatus. She's still looking for that perfect score

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Speaker 1: on the beam. Her score on Saturday led number nine

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Speaker 1: UCLA to a two point win over Nebraska in the

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Speaker 1: team's Big ten opener. Now reminder, two points is considered

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Speaker 1: a pretty decisive win. Gymnastics meets are often decided by

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Speaker 1: tenths or even hundredths of a point. To tennis and

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Speaker 1: the Australian Open, where the women's singles draw got underway

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Speaker 1: over the weekend, one of the early surprises came in

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Speaker 1: round one on Sunday, when American Emma Navarro was upset

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Speaker 1: by Poland's Magdalenette. Meantime, other top Americans, including Coco Golf,

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Speaker 1: Amanda Anasamova, and Jessica Pagoula are safely into the second round.

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Speaker 1: We're recording this ahead of defending OSSI Open champion Madison

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Speaker 1: Key is taking the court.

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Speaker 2: For the first time. We'll link to the full schedule

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Speaker 2: and results in the show notes. All right, we got

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Speaker 2: to take a break. When we come back, it's Chris

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Speaker 2: Moser joining us for a second time on the show.

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Speaker 1: He's a triathlete, do athlete, and racewalker, and an outspoken

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Speaker 1: advocate for transgender rights. The first transgender athlete to represent

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Speaker 1: the US and international competition, first transgender athlete in the

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Speaker 1: ESPN Body Issue, first transgender athlete sponsored by Nike, and

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Speaker 1: first transgender athlete to qualify for the Olympic Trials in

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Speaker 1: gender they identify with. He's the founder of transathlete dot com,

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Speaker 1: a resource for information about trans inclusion and athletics at

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Speaker 1: various levels of play. He has spoken across the world

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Speaker 1: about inclusion in sports, his experience as a transgender athlete, athlete, activism,

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Speaker 1: and creating more inclusive spaces, and he's written the forward

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Speaker 1: for and partnered with the authors on a new book

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Speaker 1: called Fair Game, Transathletes and the Future of Sports.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My friend always went in

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Speaker 2: the mustache competition. It's Chris Moser.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Hi, I was waiting to see, like,

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Speaker 3: you have such great introductions. I was like, Oh, I

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Speaker 3: can't wait to see what's the fun part that comes

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Speaker 3: after that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we just went with mustache again because it's just

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Speaker 1: so prominent. I'm staring right at it. I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: to have you back on the show, especially with the

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Speaker 1: timing because the Supreme Court heard oral arguments regarding trans

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Speaker 1: participation this week. You actually were speaking down in DC

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday. What was the focus of your remarks. What

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Speaker 1: did you want to make sure you said outside the courthouse?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Wow, I mean it was wild just to be on

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Speaker 3: the steps of the Supreme Court. While essentially my human

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Speaker 3: and my ability to play sports. And to be clear,

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Speaker 3: this is about kids in you know, these cases are

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Speaker 3: about kids, and they're primarily focused on transgender women, but

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Speaker 3: the factor mains as a trans athlete, this deeply impacts me,

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Speaker 3: and so it was really an honor to be there

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Speaker 3: outside of the case, and Sarah, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you've ever been to one of these rallies, but it

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Speaker 3: is absolutely bonkers. They have the opposition rally four feet away,

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Speaker 3: and so in every single one of my posts that

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Speaker 3: you're hearing me speak about my remarks, you can hear

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Speaker 3: the other side in the background saying what they said.

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Speaker 3: And the difference between our two realities could not be

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Speaker 3: farther from one another. So when I was up there,

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Speaker 3: I really wanted to make sure that I was conveying

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Speaker 3: one my love and appreciation for the trans community to

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Speaker 3: continue to show up, wake up every day, and continue

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Speaker 3: living life under these circumstances, because you know, whether you're

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Speaker 3: an athlete or not, it has been very difficult to

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Speaker 3: be a transperson in America in twenty twenty five and

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. Secondly, I wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 3: everybody knew that this really kind of isn't about sports.

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Speaker 3: You know, it is about sports, and so much as

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Speaker 3: sports are deeply emotional and they're part of our American

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Speaker 3: fabric of our society, there's something that people can be

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Speaker 3: united over and very clearly something that we can be

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Speaker 3: divided over as well, and so I wanted to let

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Speaker 3: people know that this is actually a lot about a

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Speaker 3: lot more than just sports. It's about safety, but not

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Speaker 3: in the way that they're saying. It's more about power

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Speaker 3: and control, and it's about all of our abilities to

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Speaker 3: make choices that relate to our own lives and livelihoods.

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Speaker 3: And so, you know, I really just wanted to send

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Speaker 3: the message that this is impacting all of us and

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Speaker 3: we all have a reason to be invested in the

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Speaker 3: outcome of this decision, because it's not going to end here.

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Speaker 3: This is not the end of the conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sports are the gateway to try to impact rights

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Speaker 1: for all trans folks. And I think it's important that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that your humanity is what's at stake, because

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Speaker 1: when I hear people argue my daughter shouldn't be forced

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Speaker 1: to play sports with someone who has male DNA or

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Speaker 1: all these arguments, what I want to ask them is,

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Speaker 1: what about the other daughter in the situation? What about

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Speaker 1: the trans girl? Do you think that they have a

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Speaker 1: right to do anything and play anything and be a

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Speaker 1: part of it. And fundamentally, if you can't see that

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Speaker 1: there's somebody else in the equation. It's because you're lacking

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Speaker 1: and understanding of their humanity and because you don't see

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Speaker 1: them as equally deserving of opportunity and play and community

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Speaker 1: and confidence as your own child. And that's why when

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Speaker 1: you say the two sides being next to each other

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Speaker 1: feels so fundamentally different. It's very hard for me to

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Speaker 1: sometimes have conversations with people about this because I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how they can't consider the opposite side of who

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Speaker 1: they're fighting against and who they're trying to restrict.

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Speaker 2: And I was watching some of the videos from there.

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Speaker 1: I loved Coach Jackie, the Internet content creators interviews, asking

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Speaker 1: them if they know a goddamn thing about women's sports,

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Speaker 1: which they're trying to protect, quote unquote sayve and of

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Speaker 1: course they didn't. Did you interact with anyone from the

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Speaker 1: you know, the folks on the other side while you

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Speaker 1: were there.

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Speaker 3: No. I stayed on my side, and that was an

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Speaker 3: intentional choice. I mean, I'm put in a position every

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Speaker 3: single day to defend my humanity, defend my community, and

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Speaker 3: also just feel countless personal attacks for my existence and

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Speaker 3: anything that I put online. And a lot of those

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Speaker 3: folks on the other side know me they know me well,

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Speaker 3: they interact with my content or I've had meetings with them, lawmakers,

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Speaker 3: you know, people in positions of power at organizations. We've

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Speaker 3: had conversations. They know where I stand on this, and

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Speaker 3: it's difficult, like you said, to have those conversations with

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Speaker 3: people who don't see you as a real person. And

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Speaker 3: that's you know, that's like it's a non starter if

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Speaker 3: you can't accept and understand that that trans people are real. Like, Hi,

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Speaker 3: I'm right here. We're having a real conversation. Somebody today said,

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Speaker 3: you know, like that that trans people are pretending and

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, like I've been pretending for sixteen years, right,

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Speaker 3: I'm truly investing.

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Speaker 2: Long con for you.

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Speaker 3: This is commitment right here, right, So you know, like

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Speaker 3: we have to start from that point and then we

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Speaker 3: can have this conversation. But really, like there's there's just

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Speaker 3: no common ground between the two sides right now. I

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Speaker 3: want to go to something that you said about, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, my daughter playing sports and I don't want

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Speaker 3: them in the in the locker room, you know, with

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Speaker 3: a with a boy. What I actually hear a lot

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Speaker 3: is with a man. And so most of the speakers

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Speaker 3: on the other side were saying, you know, I don't

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Speaker 3: want my middle school daughter in the locker room with

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Speaker 3: a man. And it's jarring to me because that language

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Speaker 3: is really intentional, right to say, like we're talking about girls,

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Speaker 3: which is young people, and then to say man to

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Speaker 3: conjure up an image of a grown adult, you know,

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Speaker 3: inflicting harm on someone in today's world, that is a

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Speaker 3: very real concern. And so I feel like they know

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Speaker 3: exactly what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: With CIS men.

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Speaker 3: Yes, correct. So you know, if you're afra adult men,

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Speaker 3: if you're afraid of a grown man being in the

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Speaker 3: locker room with your daughter, you're afraid of CIS gender men,

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Speaker 3: you are not a's right of trans kids. And that's

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Speaker 3: you know, that's the thing that we need to get across.

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Speaker 3: We need to be really, really attentive to the language

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Speaker 3: that they're using because that is on purpose. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I want to get to the education side of this

431
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: and that part of it in a minute, but I

432
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 1: want to ask before we move on, what's the worst

433
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 1: case scenario, in best case scenario that comes out of

434
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court rulings in your opinion, yeah, in.

435
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 3: My opinion, I am not a lawyer. I do not

436
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: play one on the internet. But I will say that

437
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 3: in my opinion as a trans athlete and somebody who's

438
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 3: been involved in policy, I think the worst case scenario

439
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 3: would be a decision that redefines sex right, that would

440
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 3: encapsulate like the Supreme Court's version of the Executive Order,

441
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 3: that would have wide ranging impacts for the entire trans

442
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 3: community in and out of sports. I don't see that happening,

443
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 3: to be very clear. But if we're talking worst case

444
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 3: like that would be it for me. Best case, I

445
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 3: think would be we're really focusing on a narrow decision here.

446
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 3: And this is one of the things that people don't

447
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 3: understand about a Supreme Court case, that we're not in

448
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 3: that position arguing the facts of fairness, of safety, of inclusion,

449
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 3: or even some of the details of the policy. It's

450
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 3: really a very specific challenge to the law. And so

451
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 3: there are you know, people were saying, Oh, I watched

452
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 3: the arguments. I'm sad that they didn't say this, this,

453
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 3: and this about how there are so few trans people playing,

454
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 3: or about some of the statistics that's already been battled.

455
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 3: This is about something else and that the Supreme Court

456
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 3: has to weigh in on. So I think a best

457
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 3: case scenario might be too well. Obviously, if they say

458
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 3: it's discrimination and it's not allowed, that would be my

459
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 3: top case. I don't know that that's going to happen either,

460
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: especially with this court. But if we can kick that

461
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: back to hammer out some of the other details that

462
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: were missed in the court cases, I believe that would

463
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: put the case back into the lower courts for a

464
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 3: couple of years, and we would probably see this at

465
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court again in a couple of years. But

466
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 3: those are just my thoughts. I am not a legal expert,

467
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 3: but those are a couple of ways that I could

468
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 3: see it playing out.

469
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 1: And you mentioned the executive order, This could be the

470
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: Supreme Court version of this. You may not remember this

471
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: because we've survived eight billion atrocities since then, but you

472
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: might remember that a couple days into office, President Trump

473
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: said there was an executive order recognizing male and female

474
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: as the only two sexes, which was news to a

475
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: lot of scientists, biology experts, and anyone with half a brain.

476
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 2: But yeah, we don't want there to.

477
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: Be a similar sort of move from the Supreme Court

478
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: to try to limit our very long standing knowledge of

479
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: how bodies actually work. You know, we're talking about the

480
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: qute unquote save women's sports people, the protect women's sports

481
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: people who so often are outed for knowing very little

482
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: about women's sports, particularly the real issues plaguing female athletes,

483
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: lack of funding and resources, fewer opportunities to play, toxic

484
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: and abusive coaches and environments, rampant violations of Title nine,

485
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 1: and how they're desired to police women's sports will ultimately

486
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: negatively affect every girl and woman, sis, trans intersex and

487
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: everything else. Can you share your concern for how having

488
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: to prove one's gender might impact every girl or woman

489
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: who plays sports.

490
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a bill right now. I think it's going

491
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: to be on the ballot in Washington State to enforce

492
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 3: genital checks on children in order to have them play

493
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: school sports. And so, you know, this is not a hypothetical,

494
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 3: This is not theoretical. This is something that lawmakers are

495
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 3: actually proposing. One of the dangers of this is that

496
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: we're not really seeing the genital inspections or reproductive anatomy

497
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: inspections go through because that's gross, right, Like, we should

498
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: not be doing that on children, We should not be

499
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: doing that on grown adults. Anyone even the Olympics has

500
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: moved away from that, even though I believe that they're

501
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 3: moving back towards it in other ways. So, you know,

502
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 3: my concern here is that if you look at the

503
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: cases that have happened since say, early twenty twenty four,

504
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 3: when we had a lot of these laws in place,

505
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: we have seen more cisgender girls be called transgender, be

506
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 3: investigated for being trans. There was a case in Utah

507
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: where where a school board person put a young person

508
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: under fire to say that they believe that she, a

509
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 3: cistgender girl, was transgender. We have parents in the stands

510
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 3: at track and field events yelling at young kids, like

511
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: nine year olds on the track, accusing them of being

512
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 3: trans and still the folks on the other side of

513
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 3: that rally do not believe that this is happening. But

514
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: I know many cis gender women in my lives, athletes

515
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 3: are not who have been policed walking into a restroom

516
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: because they're tall, because they're athletic build, because they have

517
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: short hair, because they are wearing certain clothes on that day.

518
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: So we know that this, you know, creates this environment

519
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: of scrutiny and this sort of like vigilante like oh,

520
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: transvestigations right, like is that a transperson? Is that a

521
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: trans person?

522
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: Investigations?

523
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: And it just makes it deeply unsafe for all people.

524
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 3: I mean, you and I have had conversations about you

525
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: trying to use the restroom as a tall woman. You know,

526
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 3: if you have a baseball hat on.

527
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: When I was a I was taller than everyone.

528
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: I have a low voice, I was faster and stronger,

529
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: and I was already insecure about being called manly or

530
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 1: not being girly enough, And so if there had been

531
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: actual parents yelling that stuff at me, it would have

532
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: been deeply damaging for me.

533
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: Not to mention.

534
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: The worst case of all this is when a coach

535
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: or somebody else in power might tell a young girl,

536
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: if you don't prove to me that you're a girl,

537
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell everyone you're not right. And what's

538
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: going to happen then access to that little girl, which

539
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: is already a problem in so many cases and will

540
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: only be more so if we're empowering people bad people

541
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: to say that it's policy right.

542
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: And you know this isn't truly about helping or protecting women.

543
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 3: If it was, you know, these these are the same

544
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: lawmakers that have taken away bodily autonomy, abortion access, you know,

545
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: women's rights across the board. These folks do not have

546
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 3: a track record of standing up for women. From Coach

547
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: Jackie's video, you can see these people do not have

548
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 3: a track record in watching women's or caring you know, Like,

549
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 3: how are you going to say that you're saving and

550
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: protecting something you've never cared about?

551
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: We know that that's been the case for a really

552
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: long time.

553
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: And I want to ask, you know, if you are

554
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: trying to talk to someone that you actually think might

555
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: not be anti woman, anti girl, just genuinely has a

556
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: pretty surface level idea and says, don't you think it's

557
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: unfair for someone with male DNA to compete against women

558
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: and girls? How do you have a conversation with them

559
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: without presuming ill intent and just maybe presuming ignorance on

560
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: the subject.

561
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 3: I mean, I think this has to be my core

562
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 3: operating belief in order to continue to show up and

563
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: do advocacy work every day, is that I have to

564
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: believe that people are good and capable of change, you know,

565
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: I have to believe that there are people out there

566
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 3: who just don't know enough on the topic, who have

567
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 3: not planted their flag on either side and are just

568
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: willing to learn more. So I try to take every

569
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 3: single one of those questions with best intentions to say, like, Okay, well,

570
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: this is an opportunity to really connect with somebody, to

571
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: show that we are more alike than we are different,

572
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: which is the whole purpose of this book. It's to

573
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 3: share the stories of trans athletes from our voices. You know,

574
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: we're not telling their stories, we're sharing their stories. And

575
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 3: I think that's a really important distinction because so many

576
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 3: people are talking about transgender athletes but not talking to

577
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 3: trans athletes, and so I think that it's really important

578
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 3: to connect with the person with that question. And I

579
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 3: usually start those conversations with tell me a little bit

580
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 3: more about what your concerns are, tell me where you've

581
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: heard this information, because I can get a lot of

582
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: context and position myself at a better starting point when

583
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: I actually can drill down to you know, did this

584
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: person just hear something in a headline and they're parroting

585
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 3: a talking point that they've heard from Fox News or

586
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: they you know, are they connected to the community and

587
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: they're just not sure where to start? Right?

588
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really smart education so important, and we find

589
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: this across a million different issues. Asking someone else's question

590
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: about what they think somehow will lead to a much

591
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: most of the time, will lead to a much better

592
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: discussion than telling them facts and telling them why they're wrong.

593
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: Trying to understand what they think and why first is

594
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: often it's hard. You have to be patient, but you know,

595
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: you Nicky Hilts Quinn athletes like that, you guys have

596
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: given facts about this and given opportunities for people to

597
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: learn and understand better what it means to be a

598
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: trans athlete. And then, of course if people are genuinely interested,

599
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: we can send them to podcasts like Tested with Rose

600
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: Evelyth learning about actual biology and how sex can be

601
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: a spectrum, not black and white, getting folks to actually

602
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: talk to transit intersex people in person and actually see

603
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: the heart of the story and not just the political

604
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: cudgel being used. And that's really to your point. What

605
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: the book Fair Game is. It's co authored by Ellie

606
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: Rocher and doctor Anna Bath, and you did a lot

607
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: of the research. You found a lot of the athletes

608
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: to tell the stories of Can you share maybe one

609
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: athlete whose story is discussed in the book that you

610
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: think really will help people better understand the issue.

611
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: While we start off the book with the story of

612
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: Do who's a young trans boy who is in a

613
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: state that forces him to continue to compete with girls,

614
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: even though he would prefer to compete with other boys

615
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: that where he belongs, and his story of finding acceptance

616
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: and belonging through sport. His sport is weightlifting, and he

617
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 3: has an incredible coach who has really created this environment

618
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 3: of unity amongst the boys and the girls teams. And

619
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: his finding his place as well as finding his friends

620
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: and his sense of self and confidence is what we

621
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 3: lead within the book. I think his story just like

622
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 3: I know this kid, I've seen him grow up. I've

623
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: just you know, I'm personally connected and invested in his story.

624
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 3: But the way that he is able to as a

625
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: sixteen or seventeen year old when I interviewed him articulate

626
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: his experience of feeling the sense of not belonging, what

627
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: it means to belong and what he hopes that people

628
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: learn about the trans community or you know, what he

629
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: wishes people knew about him and his experience is just

630
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: so incredible because when we are talking about trans athletes,

631
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: we are often leading out the trans boys, right, so like,

632
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 3: we're very focused on trans girls, and rightfully so, they

633
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: are the center of the you know, the bullseye of

634
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: this target here that lawmakers are honing in on. But

635
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 3: I think talking about a trans boys experience in that

636
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 3: sort of flip side situation that people don't talk about

637
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: in the media can really put things into perspective about

638
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 3: how unfair it is for the kids.

639
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: I think that part in particular, I would urge anyone

640
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: who's ever played a sport to read the way Doo

641
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: talks about finding weightlifting and recognizing what it meant to

642
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 1: him in his freedom as a person in his body,

643
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: finding teammates, pushing himself getting better because he was someone

644
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: that wasn't super into sports. So it's not someone who

645
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: naturally is playing everything under the sun. It's someone that

646
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: anyone can relate to in finding what it means to

647
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: move your body and all of the joy that that

648
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: can bring you. And I would urge someone who doesn't

649
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: want trans kids to participate to read that and say, no,

650
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: you don't get to do this anymore.

651
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: Which is at the crux of the argument.

652
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: You know, the Supreme Court hearing cases like the ones

653
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: that they're hearing now can sometimes make things worse because

654
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: they are so far right right now with all the

655
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: bands that already exist for trans girls competing in twenty

656
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: seven different states currently and the potential for more of

657
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: those bands. Do you ever think that there's a concern

658
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: of bringing these cases to court right now understanding how

659
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: shifted it is to the right. Like you've got someone

660
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: like Lindsay Heacocks at the center of one of these cases,

661
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: who wanted her case to be dismissed last year since

662
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: she had stopped playing sports, and after she heard it

663
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: was elevated to the Supreme Court, perhaps concerned about how

664
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: it might impact the larger scale when it was originally

665
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: just her fight. Do you worry about the balance these

666
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: individual cases might have versus like the broader implications of

667
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: the rulings?

668
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: I mean always, I think like the courts are so

669
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 3: hit or missed depending on where you live right now,

670
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 3: because they have been act in certain ways and we've seen,

671
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: you know, like it's just wild that a decision can

672
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: one judge will say something, the other judge will say

673
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: something else, and we overturn this and then overturn it again,

674
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 3: and then it's back on injunction, and it just you know,

675
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 3: it's it's it's difficult. I think with this topic, so

676
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: many people are afraid to say the wrong thing. And

677
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: I'm talking about our allies, but I'm also talking about

678
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 3: trans people as well. It's not you know, like there's

679
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: varying opinions and varying understanding within the trans community, even

680
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: about sports. And so I think, I mean, personally, always

681
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 3: have a concern. I want to say the right things.

682
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: I want us to get the best decision out of

683
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: these cases. But I don't think that we can wait,

684
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 3: to be honest, like, we have to challenge at every

685
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: opportunity that we get because we can't afford to be

686
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: strategic and play this out in terms of time. Like

687
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: what is happening in our country right now on the

688
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: back of sports for trans people, right, is a wedge

689
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: that has been driven in our country to divide not

690
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 3: only the left and the rights, conservative and liberal, but

691
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 3: also within the LGBTQ plus community, men and women. I mean,

692
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: we are more divided than we have ever been and

693
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 3: a lot of it honestly starts from trans people in sports.

694
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: It is the reason why they have spent millions and millions,

695
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 3: hundreds of millions of dollars in election years.

696
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: We saw that with the ads.

697
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: It's the reason the President just said that he's going

698
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 3: to wait until a week before the midterms and bring

699
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 3: up trans athletes again. But like, listen, y'all, this is

700
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: a distraction from the Epstein files, where people are actually

701
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 3: being abused right right from us taking over other countries,

702
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 3: from us not having healthcare. I mean, there are so

703
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 3: many things happening, but this is my laden, and I

704
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: care deeply about so many other things, but this is

705
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: the area where I think that I can continue to

706
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 3: make a difference, continue to show up. I mean, I

707
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: told you last time. I do believe that this is

708
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: the time that I was built for. I believe this

709
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: is the reason of am here and the way that

710
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 3: I can make change. And so I think that we

711
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: need to challenge at every opportunity that we get. What

712
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 3: I'm actually concerned about is not the challenges. I'm concerned

713
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: about the personal safety of the people involved, Like Lindsay,

714
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: why she would want to potentially not be a part

715
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 3: of it. This is destroyed lives. You know, we have

716
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 3: a nine year old kid who's accused of being trans

717
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 3: in the whole town and then country and president comes

718
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 3: after them. It is deeply unsafe to be a transperson

719
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 3: in our country right now.

720
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: You know you mentioned it's hard even sometimes for allies

721
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: to talk about this, And I want to ask about

722
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: Simone Biles, because gymnast Goat wanted to be on the

723
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: right side of things posted about trans inclusion last year,

724
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: and she ended up sort of getting it from both sides.

725
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: Folks like Riley Gaines were arguing against trans participation and

726
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: trans rights, and then folks that actually agree with her

727
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: for the most part about trans inclusion still criticized her

728
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: for the way she was trying to support specifically that

729
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: she said, you know, maybe we could have a separate category.

730
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 2: There might be some other solution from your perspective and experience.

731
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: That's the best way to get folks, especially big name

732
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: allies like that, to continue supporting and engaging if they

733
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: are worried about getting it quote unquote right.

734
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I try to help with educational efforts,

735
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 3: particularly for like our professional Olympic Paralympic athletes, to make

736
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 3: sure that they have the information and the talking points

737
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 3: that they need. Again, I hope that this book can

738
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: also do that because within the book we bust for

739
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 3: major myths around the trans community and trans athletes. You know,

740
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 3: the other thing that I think is that it takes

741
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 3: one or two brave athletes to speak up to empower

742
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: other people to also share their opinion. Folks on the

743
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: other side, and there's not a lot of them, to

744
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 3: be honest, they're just very loud share their opinion because

745
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 3: they are being paid thousands of dollars in order to

746
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 3: be a face to be put up in front of

747
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: people and say that people other people don't belong. It's

748
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 3: much harder to defend your humanity, to give them facts,

749
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 3: to give them statistics, to actually like, we have all

750
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: the receipts on the inclusion side. You know, I believe

751
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: that we are on the rist sticks less. It sticks

752
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 3: less because it's not as inflammatory, and that's really are

753
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: what our country is about right now. So I hope

754
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 3: that you know. I was sad to see Simone get

755
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: so much Flag four standing up and speaking out. I

756
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 3: would rather have an ally like say that they are

757
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: for inclusion and maybe not get the words right, maybe

758
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: not get all the concepts right, but say I firmly

759
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: believe that all people belong, then have them be quiet

760
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: and because they're not sure how to say it. So,

761
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 3: you know, I really think that we need to support

762
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 3: and then, you know, help belong athletes who do want

763
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: to use their platforms. And that's I'm working on a

764
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: project right now that I can share with you a

765
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 3: little bit later, but hopefully to be able to empower

766
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 3: more athletes to collectively use their voice and have the

767
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 3: safety of other folks around them who also believe things,

768
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 3: to support them and empower them to speak out.

769
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a problem we're having just on the left

770
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: in general. This like purity test of do you know

771
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: everything and say everything perfectly otherwise you're out. Meanwhile, the

772
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: other side is embracing anyone and who's willing to have

773
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: complete shamelessness in promoting you know what quote unquote their

774
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: side is, you know, I have I want to ask

775
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: you a couple of things about things that often come

776
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: up in these conversations. One is the thing that Simone mentioned,

777
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: which is another special category. What do you make of

778
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: that quote unquote solution?

779
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, that's a that's not a solution. I mean, like,

780
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 3: look at me as an athlete, you know, at my

781
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 3: level in my sport, i'd be competing against myself. There's

782
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: just simply not enough transgender athletes humble bragg. Yeah, but

783
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: I would, honestly, I mean, I think like Becky Pepper

784
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 3: Jackson in the Supreme Court case is the only transgender

785
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 3: athlete competing in the state of West Virginia.

786
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 2: Whole state, which is why we need so many bills

787
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: and law right.

788
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: Right and yeah, and on that note, Sarah, I mean,

789
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: we have twenty nine states that have either a law

790
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: or a policy that bans trans kids from playing sports

791
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 3: right now, and this year, I promise you I've already

792
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 3: seen we are seeing more states introduce athlete bands at

793
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 3: the K through twelve level, even states that already passed

794
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 3: a ban, it is impossible for a trans kid to

795
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 3: compete there. They're making new they're trying to make new laws.

796
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: I want to read this quote from the book while

797
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: you bring this up. Okay, Yeah, Over the last five years,

798
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: there have been thirteen hundred and four anti trans.

799
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: Youth sports bills proposed.

800
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: Even if two per state is a gross overestimation of

801
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: the number of out trans youth athletes who want to compete,

802
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: there have still been thirteen times the number of anti

803
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: trans bills proposed.

804
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,479
Speaker 2: And then The book says, if you just look.

805
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: At the number of trans girls who file state cases

806
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: to participate, they estimate the number of bills as closer

807
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 1: to eighty five times more than the number of out

808
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: trans girls and women athletes.

809
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 2: That's why old.

810
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and to have you know, half over half our

811
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 3: state's already banned kids, and we're going to see another

812
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 3: one hundred bills this year about sports. It's like, like

813
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 3: the math doesn't math for me. I just don't get it.

814
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

815
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So we're out on the quote unquote solution of

816
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: a special category. What about in California last year we

817
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: saw the inaction of a temporary rule that allowed for

818
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 1: a tie or a shared podium placement if a cisgender

819
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: female athlete would have meddled if a transgender participant hadn't

820
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: competed there, allowing for both the transathlete and the sis

821
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: athlete to meddle.

822
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: How do you feel about a solution like that.

823
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny to me that people say that

824
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: people are snowflakes for wanting participation ribbons. But that's essentially

825
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: what this is to me. I see what people are

826
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: trying to do. I don't think it's a perfect solution,

827
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 3: especially if they are going to wipe away the times

828
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: or records of a trans kid. Right, like to say

829
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: that you can play, but you can't be good. You

830
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: can play count, but it can't count.

831
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: Right.

832
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 3: What you get the opportunity to participate, but it doesn't

833
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: mean anything right compared to the rest of your teammates.

834
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: I find that still to be problematic. And I see

835
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: what they were trying to do. They were looking for

836
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: the solution that would make everybody happy. I still don't

837
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 3: think everybody was happy with that. And what I actually

838
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: loved about that case was listening to the cisgender teammates

839
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: of the trans athlete talk about how they thought it

840
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: was stupid, they were not a fan, and that they

841
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 3: would stand in total solidarity with the trans athlete. Some

842
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: of those kids were like, we don't have a problem.

843
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 3: That is our parents, it is the coaches, it is

844
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 3: not us. We are just playing.

845
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I remember thinking like, this is a

846
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: pretty good solution.

847
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: But to your point, the idea of sports is to yes, participate,

848
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: have community, earn all the good things, move your body,

849
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: get the health benefits, and also to care and try

850
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: to win, and so if that doesn't really count, it

851
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: is flawed.

852
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: I think for me, I'm like so beaten down by

853
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 2: how awful everything is.

854
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is better, Like this is at least

855
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: better because you can't argue that anything was taken away

856
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: from anyone else.

857
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 2: It's just more inclusive. But it's not a perfect fix.

858
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's really important what you just

859
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: brought up. It's like it's better than the other options.

860
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 3: And this is what we see with these bills. And

861
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: this is what we see with like, say the genital inspections.

862
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 3: Right when Idaho first introduced HB five hundred, which became

863
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 3: the first law banning trans athletes in our country in

864
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, it started off with genital inspections and internal

865
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: and external reproductive anatomy inspection, presumably by adults on a

866
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 3: child in order to play the sports that they love.

867
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 3: But what we see is more states introduced that as

868
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 3: the starting point. So then when they back off to say,

869
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 3: we'll just go by original birth certificates, so no trans

870
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 3: girl can never play with girls, right, that seems a

871
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 3: lot more reasonable than having some creepy cis dude in

872
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: your daughter's pants, but it still doesn't it's still is exclusion.

873
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 2: Yhebitives, yeah exactly.

874
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I want to talk to you about

875
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: this big picture because it feels like there's been two

876
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: main shifts for the trans community in about the.

877
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 2: Last ten or twelve years.

878
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: First there was this like positive movement Laverne Cox and

879
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: Caitlin Jenner and big names making trans folks more visible.

880
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: And then the inevitable pushback politicians choosing the issue of

881
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: trans athletes as a political cudgel, introducing laws to prevent participation,

882
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: really demonizing the community as a whole, and acting like

883
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: it's specific to women's sports, when in fact their goal

884
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: is to erase the community altogether.

885
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 2: How is it felt as a trans person?

886
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: How can you put into perspective the up and down

887
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: of the last decade.

888
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 3: Or so, Sarah, My nervous system is fried.

889
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: I just feel like, and you're such a joyful person.

890
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: So that's saying something you are though, like, you know,

891
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: that's that's saying something.

892
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. You know. I feel like, well, what

893
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: I feel it's my duty to continue to have joy

894
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: in order to not just for my own personal you know,

895
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 3: existence on this earth, but for the people around me

896
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: and people who love me, and for my community. Right,

897
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 3: Like I have always wanted to be a possibility model,

898
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 3: a role model, the person I wish I had when

899
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: I was younger, and be a joyful person because I

900
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 3: think that that is our birthright. We all should be

901
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 3: able to experience joy. And you know, for me, it's

902
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 3: it's a form of resistance because the last thing that

903
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 3: they want is for me to be happy on this earth.

904
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: But I think, if anything, it's really shown me the

905
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 3: way that the pendulum swings, because when I came out

906
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: in twenty ten, there was a very little awareness of

907
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 3: the trans community. By twenty fifteen, I made Team USA,

908
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 3: Laverne Cox, you know, Caitlyn Jenner got naked. Weare the

909
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 3: body issue, you know, beared it all. This is the

910
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: ten year anniversary of that, by the way, and I

911
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 3: think I'm going to do another photo shoot. I'm trying

912
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: to get yes right on it.

913
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: So anyway, mean you're half naked on your Insta already,

914
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: just bragging about your damn abs all the time.

915
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, I had an AB once, But thank you

916
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: for reminding me it's still possible.

917
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: I guess, Oh, thank you for the reminder to post

918
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 3: a thirst strap. I'm do no, you know, I think that.

919
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 3: But when we saw that progress, it was hopeful, and

920
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 3: then twenty twenty happened and everything has been on a

921
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 3: backslide since then, with our with our policies and laws.

922
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 3: But I really really believe that I'm and I'm seeing

923
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 3: the American public is sick of this. More people believe

924
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: that the GOP is spending way too much time obsessing

925
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 3: over trans people than they are doing anything to fix

926
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 3: our economy, the price of groceries, healthcare jobs, et cetera.

927
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: So you know, I believe that people are going to

928
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: become frustrated with this, and I can just feel this

929
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: collective uprising that is bubbling beneath the surface. You know,

930
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: we see the no King's protests and it gives us

931
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 3: a little glimpse of solidarity. But it really is important

932
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 3: that the women's rights movements, the reproductive justice movements, the

933
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 3: environmental justice movements, you know, because we can't play sports

934
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 3: if it's a million degrees outside in February, right, like

935
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 3: all of these things are connected.

936
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 2: Can't play sports if we're shot in the face by.

937
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 3: Ice, exactly, And so yes, how about that.

938
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: Being something we care a little bit more about than

939
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: one kid in West Virginia.

940
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 3: That's right, and so there are so many things to

941
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 3: be concerned about. The idea here and the hope is

942
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: that we will be so overwhelmed that we will do nothing.

943
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 3: And I can feel this rising. So if we can connect,

944
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 3: I really believe that not only will we see improvements

945
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 3: for the trans community, but for all of our marginalized communities,

946
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: everybody who's not the other one percent, you know, the

947
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 3: billionaires who are running the country right now. I think

948
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 3: that we are going to see progress. I just, you know,

949
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 3: am like kind of buckling in for the endurance to

950
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 3: make it to that point. And it's going to take

951
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: showing up and fighting every single day. Some days the

952
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 3: fight is on the steps of the Supreme Court talking

953
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 3: to a group of people. Some days for me, it

954
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 3: is truly just getting out of bed and doing my

955
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 3: run that day, and that is my form of advocacy

956
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: and resistance. And so, you know, I think that it's

957
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 3: been a really interesting snapshot of not just the trans community,

958
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 3: but of how socially things change in our country.

959
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 2: How progress happens exactly.

960
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: I always say this, but I remember Barack Obama once

961
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: said two steps forward, one step backlash, And it's true.

962
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: You don't get the major shifts without some people sending

963
00:46:59,440 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: you backwards.

964
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 3: Wasn't that, Paula Abdul No, that was two.

965
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: Steps forward, I take two steps back.

966
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: Oh, we come together because opposite's attract And you know

967
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: that it ain't fiction, it's a natural fact. Anyway, mc

968
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: scatcat shout out. I did an answer to that song

969
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: in like seventh grade.

970
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 3: I can't wait for that social clip. I'm here for that.

971
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: Okay, last question, big question.

972
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: I think I ask you this every time I talk

973
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: to It is a difficult one, but one I think

974
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: needs to continue to.

975
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: Be put out there.

976
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: What approach to policy do you think is fair and

977
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: exclusive that you would like to see? And I recognize

978
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: various levels will be different.

979
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's where we need to start. Is

980
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 3: that I can't like, we have the Olympics coming up

981
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 3: in February, and I have a prediction that by let's

982
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: say national women girls in sports stage just because they

983
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: like to do that, but I believe that we're going

984
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 3: to see a ban at the IOC level and that's

985
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 3: going to have catastrophic impacts. Through our international federations, our

986
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 3: national governing bodies, and more than anything, youths. Because if

987
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: less than one percent of athletes, our professional athletes are

988
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 3: going to the Olympics, who those policies actually impact is

989
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 3: your kid on the soccer team whose registration is run

990
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 3: by USA Soccer. So you know, it's hard for me

991
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 3: to give you an answer of what I think a

992
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 3: dream could be because right now we're just holding on

993
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 3: for the least amount of damage. But at the end

994
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 3: of the day, I believe and I know every young

995
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 3: person deserves the opportunity to play the sports that they

996
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 3: love and be their authentic self and they shouldn't have

997
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: to compromise any part of who they are. So we

998
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 3: it is our responsibility as a society to find the

999
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 3: ways that young people can play, move their bodies, connect

1000
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 3: beyond teams. Because trans people didn't invent sports, and we

1001
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 3: didn't invent the gender binary. We just live within it, right,

1002
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 3: and so we need to find the ways and options,

1003
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 3: And it might require creative thinking, and it might require

1004
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 3: some not so perfect solutions like what happened in California

1005
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: to evolve into something.

1006
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 2: Else to it gets closer to perfect.

1007
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, but I think that we need to be

1008
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 3: thinking of how can we include more people in sport,

1009
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 3: not how can we keep these few people out?

1010
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, and I think some people who are

1011
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: on the side of trans inclusion get annoyed if you

1012
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: say it's complicated. I do think it's complicated. I do

1013
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: think it's nuanced. I do think once you get into

1014
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: college and pro, it's different. I think at the youth level,

1015
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: everybody plays, there's way more important things than just who wins,

1016
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: and inclusivity is the most important. And then I think

1017
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: when you get to college and pro, there have to

1018
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: be more set policies in place, and there have to

1019
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: be restrictions and regulations which there always have been and

1020
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: which thrived four years and years before this became a

1021
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: political issue. You know, I do want to say, I

1022
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: think there are some fears that the ruling that you're

1023
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: talking about, that you're anticipating will even have an impact

1024
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: on players from sports that don't even yet know that

1025
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: their intersects or might not even know that they have

1026
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: biological differences that could be affected by this new policy.

1027
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: Maybe they wouldn't be allowed to play. I think I

1028
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: just fear that these super invasive look that people might

1029
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: result in a lot more disruption to sport than we're

1030
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: even aware of yet.

1031
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to be clear, you know two things.

1032
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: First of all, thank you for continuing to say intersex athletes.

1033
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 3: They are a very important part of this conversation, and

1034
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 3: the impacts any of these anti trans policies deeply impact

1035
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 3: intersex people. And to your point, you know it's going

1036
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 3: to be it's going to be really detrimental to a

1037
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: lot of athletes if we go down this route of

1038
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 3: really investigating who people are and also like displaying their personal,

1039
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 3: private biomedical information. It's totally unnecessary. The second thing is

1040
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 3: that I just want to be clear that at the

1041
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 3: college level, there is absolutely no pathway for a trans

1042
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 3: girl to play college sports in this country right now.

1043
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 3: The NCAA has banned transgender women from women's sports, the

1044
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 3: NAIA has banned trans women from women's sports. So there's

1045
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 3: literally no opportunity. Trans women are not getting college scholarships,

1046
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: they are not playing on teams. The second part of

1047
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 3: that is also at the professional level, every single national

1048
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 3: governing body in this country now has a policy that

1049
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 3: aligns with the executive order, which means even my participation

1050
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: as a trans man. It has a question mark next

1051
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: to it whether or not I'll be able to represent

1052
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 3: Team USA ever again. And so we already have policies

1053
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 3: that are prohibiting people from elite competition, and those national

1054
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 3: governing body policies also trickle down to my friend who

1055
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 3: is in her fifties, who's a recreational cyclist. Like those

1056
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: are policies that are impacting not just pros, but also,

1057
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 3: like I said, with the Olympic policy trickles down to

1058
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 3: everybody who wants to play in their neighborhood.

1059
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: And it's important to note that because these morons who

1060
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: think they're arguing against a grown man playing against a

1061
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: young girl are actually impacting your friend in their fifties

1062
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: who just wants to compete.

1063
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yep.

1064
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: We could talk.

1065
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: Forever and yet increasingly infuriated. But thanks for coming back, Chris.

1066
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 3: Thank you as always for having me, Sarah.

1067
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Chris for taking the time. We got

1068
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: to take another break when we come back. Handball Hockey

1069
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: and Harry Potter, welcome back, slices. You know we did

1070
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: a whole lot of pucks and gay shit yesterday chatting

1071
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: with the real life Ilia and Hollander, Julie Too, and

1072
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 1: Carolyn Mullette. But since the world can't get enough pucks

1073
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: engay shit, we're not slowing down either. Heated rivalry references

1074
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: and tributes continue to make their way into sports and

1075
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: pop culture, including but not limited to the NHL's Ottawa

1076
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: Senators selling limited edition Rosenoff and Hollander jerseys to benefit

1077
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,439
Speaker 1: Ottawa Pride Hockey, which is founded and run by queer

1078
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: and trans folks with the mission to provide the safe

1079
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 1: space where everyone can play.

1080
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 2: Also, Saturday Night Live joined the fun. This week. There

1081
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 2: was a sketch about.

1082
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: A new HBO show called Wizardry, which is a Harry

1083
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 1: Potter spinoff that has Harry and his bff Ron Weasley

1084
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: tangling wands and gripping brooms quotitch brooms that is. And finally,

1085
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: Coco Goff talked about the show during the Australian Open

1086
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: Media Day, inviting the two stars Connor Story and Hudson

1087
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: Williams to come see her play. Said Goff to the

1088
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: Tennis Channel, quote, Hey, Connor and Hudson, my name is Coco.

1089
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: I am Tennis's number one heated rivalry fan. Please come

1090
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 1: to my match and watch me play, Love you guys.

1091
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,720
Speaker 2: End quote. If it all works out, they'll be coming

1092
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 2: to Center Court. We'll keep you updated on all the

1093
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: latest heated rivalry news as I'm sure you're as into

1094
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: it as I am.

1095
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: We always love that you're listening, but we want you

1096
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: to get in the game every day too, So here's

1097
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: our good game play of the day. Pre Order a

1098
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: copy of the book Chris worked on with co authors

1099
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 1: Ellie Roschner and doctor Annabaith. It's called Fair Game, trans

1100
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: Athletes and the Future of Sports, and it comes out

1101
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: on January twenty seventh.

1102
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 2: Will include a pre order link in the show notes.

1103
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: We'll also link to the site Chris runs trans athlete

1104
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: dot com, so make sure to check that out as well.

1105
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 2: We always love to hear.

1106
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: From you, so hit us up on email good game

1107
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at

1108
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy and don't

1109
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: forget to subscribe, rate and review slaces. Just scroll on down,

1110
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: give us five stars and tell us you love us.

1111
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 1: It's easy watch witnessing the beginning of a new US

1112
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 1: legacy in handball. Rating one of one shot to not

1113
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: lose your chance to blow this opportunity comes.

1114
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. Review.

1115
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: While the US is home to many great athletes, this

1116
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: country doesn't have a particularly rich history in the Olympics

1117
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: sport of handball. In fact, the US hasn't competed in

1118
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: either the men's or women's event since the ninety six

1119
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: Atlanta Games, the last time in American city hosted the Olympics,

1120
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,240
Speaker 1: But with Los Angeles hosting the twenty twenty eight Games,

1121
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: the US was grant at spots in both the men's

1122
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: and women's tournaments, meaning the program is trying to find

1123
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: athletic people in the hopes of teaching them to play

1124
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: handball at the elite level. Last week, USA Handball held

1125
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: open tryouts and, booyed by a TikTok from front the

1126
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: show coach Jackie promoting the opportunity, over one hundred folks

1127
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: showed up, many documenting.

1128
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 2: The day on social media.

1129
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: Per Ben Popkin, who works in communications for TikTok, All

1130
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:14,280
Speaker 1: the excitement caused handball searches to rise over thirteen hundred percent,

1131
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: and USA Team Handball announced a free clinic that reached

1132
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: capacity within a day of the announcement. Here's hope and

1133
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: all the publicity helps America find its next big handball star,

1134
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: or at least fill a roster for twenty twenty eight.

1135
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 2: Now it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks for listening,

1136
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: See you tomorrow.

1137
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: Good game, Chris, Good game, DCPWHL fans.

1138
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 2: You, my failing spine. I'll never forgive you for this.

1139
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iheartwomen's sports production

1140
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can

1141
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1142
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our

1143
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: producers are Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier. Our executive producers

1144
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, than Emily Rudder.

1145
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutter, Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez and

1146
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your

1147
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain