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Speaker 1: Six pm on Wall Street as we continue our special

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Speaker 1: coverage Donald Trump being indicted today in Washington on federal

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Speaker 1: charges over his efforts to overturn the twenty twenty presidential election. Brian, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: These charges include conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy

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Speaker 2: to obstruct an official preceding, obstruction of and an attempt

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Speaker 2: to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against the right

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Speaker 2: to vote and have that vote counted. That's all according

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Speaker 2: to the indictment that was filed. We go to Ed Baxter, Ed.

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Speaker 3: All right, thank you very much. Brian, Yeah, you went

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Speaker 3: over the charges. He is also, we are finding out,

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Speaker 3: going to be appearing or is ordered to appear before

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Speaker 3: the court on Thursday the third, So that is a

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Speaker 3: day after tomorrow us and whether he is asked to

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Speaker 3: enter a plea at that time, we don't know, but

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Speaker 3: that is where it will That's where it will go.

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Speaker 3: Let's find out a little bit more. How we're joined

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Speaker 3: by Bloomberg's at June Grass so of Bloomberg Law, Jill,

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Speaker 3: let's go with. Brian briefly mentioned the counts. Let's let's

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Speaker 3: go through them. If we cannot know that, you're just

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Speaker 3: getting them and reading them forty five pages. But let's

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Speaker 3: start with with count one. This is this is basically

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Speaker 3: effort to overturn the election. This is this is really

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Speaker 3: the broad one.

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Speaker 4: Right, So I have to say that these counts we

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Speaker 4: sort of were familiar with them because they were mentioned

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Speaker 4: in that target letter that President Trump got, so we

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Speaker 4: sort of have some background on them. The conspiracy to

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Speaker 4: defraud the United States, this is really about the fake

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Speaker 4: electors charge. You know, the schemes and the tactics that

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Speaker 4: he used. And what's really interesting in this it's a

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Speaker 4: speaking indictment, so there's a lot of information in there,

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Speaker 4: and a lot of it people will have heard of.

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Speaker 1: So they go.

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Speaker 4: Through in this indictment five different states Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 4: and Wisconsin, and they talk about what happened in each

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Speaker 4: of those states, so people will be familiar with some

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Speaker 4: of the things. For example, it mentions that phone call

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Speaker 4: that we've all heard a million times probably where he's

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Speaker 4: talking to Brad Rathensberger about finding eleven thousand, etc. Votes.

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Speaker 4: So so you'll see a lot of things that you'll recognize.

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Speaker 4: What's also interesting is that he's the only one charged.

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Speaker 4: There are six other co conspirators that are not meant

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Speaker 4: that are not named. However, you can also tell who

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Speaker 4: some of them are. It's pretty obvious that Rudy Giuliani

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Speaker 4: is one of them, and some of the other attorneys

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Speaker 4: that were involved in the efforts to change the results

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Speaker 4: of the election. So that one a federal judge actually

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Speaker 4: already found by a preponderance of the evidence that Trump

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Speaker 4: and a co conspirait at that time it was Johnnystman.

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Speaker 4: He's also one of the co conspiderers here likely violated

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Speaker 4: this conspiracy to fraud the US, which is a very

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Speaker 4: broad statute.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So, and we're standing by by the way for

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Speaker 3: a press conference with Jack Smith. He is going to speak,

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Speaker 3: and I want to follow though, because of the second

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Speaker 3: count is interfering with the process of certifying, so that

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Speaker 3: that is going really to the heart of obstructing the

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Speaker 3: certification of a vote which would lead to the transfer

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Speaker 3: of power.

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Speaker 4: So this again section fifteen twelve of Title eighteen has

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Speaker 4: been used many, many times, perhaps hundreds of times against

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Speaker 4: January sixth rider. It's the Justice departments go to count

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Speaker 4: in describing the central event of that day, which was

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Speaker 4: the disruption of the electoral College certification process that was

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Speaker 4: taking place inside the Capitol, so that is, you know,

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Speaker 4: fairly expected, and they go through, I mean every detail

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Speaker 4: that you can imagine about what happened that day and

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Speaker 4: what former President Trump said, including you know what we've

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Speaker 4: all seen, which was his speech to the crowd there

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Speaker 4: and telling them to march on the Capitol June.

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Speaker 2: From what we've heard from Trump's lawyers, John Laura and

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Speaker 2: Todd Blanche is the main line of defense political persecution.

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Speaker 2: And then just a quick follow to that is what's

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Speaker 2: the reason from a legal standpoint that the alleged co

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Speaker 2: conspirators have not been officially named.

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Speaker 4: Well, the reason may be that the Special Council really

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Speaker 4: wants to move this to trial fast. So where you

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Speaker 4: have one defendant, it's much easier to move it to

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Speaker 4: trial fast. I mean that doesn't mean that, in other words,

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Speaker 4: since they haven't named the co conspirators, they can still

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Speaker 4: file charges against them, you know, at another time. So

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Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that the co conspiras are free and clear.

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Speaker 4: I know that, you know, Rudy Giuliani had told reporters

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Speaker 4: that he wasn't being you know, they weren't. He didn't

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Speaker 4: get a target letter. He wasn't being indicted, he should

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Speaker 4: say at this time, because you never know what will

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Speaker 4: happen in the future, and I think it's kind of

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Speaker 4: unlikely that they're going to let these co conspirators, you know,

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Speaker 4: get off just free and clear. And as far as

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Speaker 4: what we've heard from former President Trump and his lawyers

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Speaker 4: is this is you know, political prosecution, the witch hunt,

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Speaker 4: which we've heard since even before he became president. That's

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Speaker 4: not going to fly so well in a courtroom. A

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Speaker 4: judge probably won't even let them raise that. And Trump

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Speaker 4: has also said that he's going to raise the that

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Speaker 4: the election was stolen from him, and I'm sure a

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Speaker 4: judge is not going to let him raise that either,

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Speaker 4: because it's been proven in courtrooms. I forget how many

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Speaker 4: time and time again that the election was fair and

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Speaker 4: free and was not stolen from him. Some of the

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Speaker 4: other things he could raise. Advice of counsel is something

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Speaker 4: that's been talked about, but there again, you have to

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Speaker 4: have a specific counsel that advised you, and you know,

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Speaker 4: you have to have there's a thing called you have

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Speaker 4: to You can't just accept what's said by somebody. You

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Speaker 4: can't accept something if it's reckless disregard for the truth. So,

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Speaker 4: I mean, he's going to have a lot more restrictions

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Speaker 4: on his defense than those that he or his attorneys

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Speaker 4: throw around. You know, when they're doing interviews. It's going

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Speaker 4: to be a lot different in a courtroom.

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Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned June that just looking at Georgia and

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Speaker 3: other states, this is going to parallel what is going

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Speaker 3: on with a potential indictment in Georgia. Doesn't I didn't

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Speaker 3: realize it was going to be this wide ranging. It is.

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Speaker 3: It is very much a circle, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Well, it is, I mean they're covering I was surprised.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we had heard that, you know, they were

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Speaker 4: definitely looking into Georgia, they had talked to the Georgia

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Speaker 4: election officials and secretor of state, et cetera. And we

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Speaker 4: knew that it was you know, Michigan. There was talk

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Speaker 4: that they had talked to electors et cetera in Michigan.

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Speaker 4: But it really is broad because it goes to Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 4: it goes to Arizona, goes to Wisconsin, and those are

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Speaker 4: states where I don't think we have heard as much

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Speaker 4: about the electors in you know, in reporting. So it's

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Speaker 4: it's shows you how they really have investigated this and

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Speaker 4: they really have their facts down. I mean, you could

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Speaker 4: read this and it's sort of like reading a book.

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Speaker 4: You know, you don't have to, and sometimes in indictments

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Speaker 4: you have to like wonder and you look, what do

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Speaker 4: they mean? This is so clearly set out. It's called

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Speaker 4: a speaking indictment. It's the similar to the one that

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Speaker 4: we had in the classified documents case, although there are

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Speaker 4: no pictures in this one, but it's very easy to read.

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Speaker 4: And I think you know, last time we heard Jack

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Speaker 4: Smith say that he urged Americans to read the indictment,

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Speaker 4: and I think that's another thing that they'll probably be

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Speaker 4: hoping that Americans do to see, you know, where this

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Speaker 4: all came from and also why Donald Trump is being charged. Also,

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Speaker 4: you know, they have used that civil rights error law

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Speaker 4: for deprivation excuse me, deprivation of rights section two forty

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Speaker 4: one of Title eighteen. And that was a surprise when

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Speaker 4: it came out in the target letter. It's been used

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Speaker 4: broadly though in the modern era with cases of voting

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Speaker 4: fraud conspiracies, so that also was not a surprise. But

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Speaker 4: it was a surprise when we heard the target letter,

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Speaker 4: but not so much this because this follows along with

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Speaker 4: what we anticipated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and hang in there, June, will you, Brian? Did

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Speaker 3: you have something else to ask June?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of a long type of question. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if we can sneak it in, but it

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Speaker 2: has to do whether or not this continues in the

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Speaker 2: public arena, which the former president seems to love. Or

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Speaker 2: you know, listening to former prosecutors and defense lawyers, Normally

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Speaker 2: they say once you are facing actually doing time in prison,

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Speaker 2: that you get very careful about what you say in public.

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Speaker 2: Is that going to be the case this time around?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 4: I don't think Donald Trump is prone to being careful

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Speaker 4: about what he says in public. I mean, he's talking

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Speaker 4: about this on the campaign trail. He continues to call

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Speaker 4: the Special Council deranged. But if you'll remember, when he

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Speaker 4: was in New York for his arraignment on those charges,

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Speaker 4: the judge very sternly instructed him not to say anything.

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Speaker 4: And I don't think he's really been talking that much

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Speaker 4: about that particular proceeding. But I think that he may,

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Speaker 4: even though his lawyers will tell him not to. They'll

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Speaker 4: tell him don't say anything because it could always be

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Speaker 4: used against you. I think that Donald Trump being Donald Trump,

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Speaker 4: He's probably going to continue to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Hey, June, thank you and stand by for us. I

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Speaker 3: know you will and of it. This will be a

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Speaker 3: topic for Bloomberg Law tonight. That is Bloomberg's legal correspondent,

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Speaker 3: June Grasso. We want to just switch gears a little

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Speaker 3: bit and get with Jennie Shanzino, professor of Bloomberg Politics,

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Speaker 3: contributor author of American Democracy and Crisis. So here it is, Jennie,

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Speaker 3: this is history, this is you know.

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Speaker 5: I think it's really striking as we just take a

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Speaker 5: step back and to think that this is the first

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Speaker 5: former president to be charged with trying to steal an

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Speaker 5: election and to impact and disrupt the peaceful transfer of

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Speaker 5: power which we have had in this country since eighteen

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Speaker 5: hundred when John Adams handed it over to Thomas Jefferson,

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Speaker 5: somebody he detested from another party. So it is quite

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Speaker 5: an indictment. And I obviously like everybody else, and I

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Speaker 5: was just listening to all of June's details. I don't

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Speaker 5: know how she does it so fast, but trying to

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Speaker 5: read through this and somebody described it as a screaming

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Speaker 5: indictment not a speaking indictment, And I think that is

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Speaker 5: an apt description because it is chock full of details

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Speaker 5: of information and it is quite compelling to read what

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Speaker 5: they have laid out here in these four counts against him.

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Speaker 3: So now, politically, Brian asked a really good question of June,

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Speaker 3: and I want to ask the same thing of you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, well, let me try to refraate. No, I won't.

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Speaker 3: What's in my head? How do you tell Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: to shut up when it's when it's against his legal,

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Speaker 3: you know, probably responsibility to do so? How do you

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Speaker 3: do that? And will he? And politically can he?

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Speaker 5: Well, he won't because we already understand he has already

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Speaker 5: and not surprisingly, sent out a fundraising appeal as this

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Speaker 5: has come down, saying that this is the Biden administration's

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Speaker 5: attempt to try to block his campaign because the polls

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Speaker 5: that we've been talking about for the last two days

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Speaker 5: and last several weeks quite frankly show that he is

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Speaker 5: so far ahead. So he is not being silenced. And obviously,

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Speaker 5: all of us who support the First Amendment as and

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Speaker 5: I know all of you do, we don't want him

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Speaker 5: to be you know, sort of quiet in that way.

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Speaker 5: Or to be shut up. And it's I think one

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Speaker 5: of the really interesting things in this indictment is that

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Speaker 5: Jack Smith says very very clearly, he can go out

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Speaker 5: and he can say on truths. He can lie to

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Speaker 5: the American people, he can lie to the press, he

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Speaker 5: can go on the ellipse, and he can say myths truths.

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Speaker 5: But he's not being charged with any of that. He's

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Speaker 5: being charged with using the power or attempting to use

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Speaker 5: the power of his office and the power of the

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Speaker 5: government to steal an election and to overturn the will

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Speaker 5: of the American people. And so, you know, we can

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Speaker 5: have both in other words, and I think it's such

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Speaker 5: an important point that you both raise. We can have

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Speaker 5: freedom of speech, freedom of press, First Amendment rights, and

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Speaker 5: we can also have fair, transparent elections that are uninterrupted,

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Speaker 5: and that is how it should be in a democracy

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Speaker 5: like the United States. And that's why I was really, really,

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Speaker 5: you know, happy in the very quick reading I've done

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Speaker 5: to see Jack Smith lay that out. You can lie,

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Speaker 5: but you can't steal, and that is the reality