1
00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,760
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,440
Speaker 2: Since becoming CEO of Man Group, you've grown the firm's

3
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 2: assets to about one hundred and seventy five billion.

4
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 3: I believe what is your strategy to grow that from here?

5
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,400
Speaker 2: And how do you differentiate the firm in a very

6
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 2: competitive environment for investor dollars?

7
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,479
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Good morning everyone. So this

8
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,199
Speaker 1: is a time when I think the alternative investment management

9
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,320
Speaker 1: space has everything to play for. It's a time when

10
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,520
Speaker 1: clients need us more. It's a time when we're coming

11
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 1: out of this rather benign environment where you had, as

12
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 1: asset holders, everything just held onto it and you'd be fine.

13
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: We're now in states of volatility and dispersion, and so

14
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 1: how do you grow? How do you service your clients

15
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,240
Speaker 1: when you're in you sure you're relevant to them, You

16
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: know that they need more from you. The more diversified

17
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 1: the content you have, the better for them, the more

18
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,319
Speaker 1: you're able to find solutions for them and answers for

19
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,240
Speaker 1: them that actually address the questions and the challenges that

20
00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,880
Speaker 1: they are living through. And you do that by looking

21
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,800
Speaker 1: at your ability to have that orthogonal or uncorrelated content

22
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,720
Speaker 1: and capability that delivers returns to them through these different

23
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 1: economic cycles that we're now living through. So how do

24
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,280
Speaker 1: you grow your assets? You listen to your clients, you

25
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 1: make sure you're relevant to them, You grow your capabilities

26
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 1: to deliver that to them. And it's hard work, but

27
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:46,320
Speaker 1: that's what you have to do.

28
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 2: How important is scale and what are you hearing from

29
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,120
Speaker 2: them on that front?

30
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 1: There's definitely a consolidation. There's a consolidation both at allocators

31
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,560
Speaker 1: but also at investment managers. That thing where you say,

32
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 1: I need to face fewer manager who can help me

33
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 1: do more, So that consolidation is there. So scale matters

34
00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 1: in the sense of being able to deliver all of

35
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,359
Speaker 1: that capability to them, and it matters in the way

36
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 1: that you build your organization so you are able to

37
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,639
Speaker 1: deliver what you deliver without reducing the alpha that you've captured.

38
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,520
Speaker 1: So it's no good finding this very elusive thing called

39
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,800
Speaker 1: alpha and outperformance only to lose it through your own inefficiencies.

40
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,080
Speaker 1: So scale and capability you're operating platform, which might not

41
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,079
Speaker 1: sound the most exciting thing for us all to talk

42
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 1: about but happens to be incredibly important. Is the thing

43
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 1: that I think is important in that scale debate or

44
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,080
Speaker 1: that conversation too. So can you deliver what you have

45
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,960
Speaker 1: at scale efficiently and return as much ALPHA two clients

46
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,920
Speaker 1: as possible without losing it through your own inefficiencies?

47
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 2: And does that mean diversification too, I mean in terms

48
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,359
Speaker 2: of something people are really seeking with that skilled Yeah.

49
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: I think that's right. The answer for many people right

50
00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 1: now is to have a portfolio constructed in a way

51
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 1: that navigates these ups and downs. And in some instances

52
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 1: you're going to see there's a tendency perhaps to think

53
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 1: of us all as trying to pitch one thing or

54
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 1: one thing only you know, here's a fund, and you

55
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 1: should buy my fund. I'm not sure it should work

56
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 1: like that anymore. I think as you think about portfolios,

57
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 1: you should think about what you're trying to achieve through time.

58
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,360
Speaker 1: So there's a temporal issue here, there's a cycle issue here,

59
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 1: there's a longevity issue here, there's a scale issue here,

60
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 1: And normally you want to think about a portfolio that

61
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,760
Speaker 1: does something that is capable of thinking about all of

62
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 1: those different inflection points. So you know, I'm not a

63
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 1: passive player, but is passive a part of a portfolio?

64
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,960
Speaker 1: For sure? I'm not a private equity investor. Do I

65
00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,680
Speaker 1: think the private equity has a role to play in

66
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 1: a portfolio? Yes, I think there are plenty of things

67
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 1: that need to happen in between those things in the

68
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,080
Speaker 1: alternative investment space as well.

69
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 2: With that in mind, what do you see happening in

70
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 2: the environment for fees? I mean you brought up pathsive,

71
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,840
Speaker 2: I mean what's your outlook for margins through a bit?

72
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 1: I think the reality is in the highly commoditized liquid spaces.

73
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 1: I think long only equities there is definitely fee pressure

74
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,719
Speaker 1: in that space, but not all things are created equal.

75
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 1: So if you are a passive player, you'll pay a

76
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: certain level of fees, but if you're an active long

77
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 1: only player, you'll have something different and there is no

78
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,839
Speaker 1: direction of travel there. So there's a sense that saying

79
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,640
Speaker 1: are all clients moving from active to passive? Answer? No,

80
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,839
Speaker 1: are some clients moving active passive? Yes, there are some

81
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 1: clients and allocators moving passive to active. Absolutely. The more

82
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 1: you go through into active or alternative investment management, the

83
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 1: more you're trying to find and have outperformance. Clients pay

84
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,960
Speaker 1: for that. They also pay for and are willing to

85
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,880
Speaker 1: sit at the table with you as you provide them

86
00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,520
Speaker 1: with solutions. So a shape of problem looks like this,

87
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 1: how do we come up with something that fits that

88
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,560
Speaker 1: With you, that partnership of providing content that is able

89
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 1: to fit a portfolio. I think it's more than that

90
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 1: as well. I think clients want to work with you

91
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,280
Speaker 1: when you deliver more than just your investment capabilities. We're

92
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,839
Speaker 1: in a world where we also have a part of

93
00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: our business at Man Group, where we have been allocators.

94
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,880
Speaker 1: We have had a fun of fun business for thirty

95
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 1: odd years. We have tools that we have used ourselves

96
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,839
Speaker 1: that our clients can now benefit from in portfolio construction

97
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 1: and risk management. You're delivering much more of your organizations

98
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,080
Speaker 1: to your clients, and if you're not able to I

99
00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,359
Speaker 1: think that's a challenge, and I think clients should want that.

100
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 1: I think allocators should want to sit at the table

101
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 1: with you, and they should ask you for more and

102
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 1: you should be able to deliver that to them.

103
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,719
Speaker 2: So you brought up consolidation in the asset management space.

104
00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:58,880
Speaker 3: Man does have a.

105
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,280
Speaker 2: History of being acquisitive, and it's well very long, more

106
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 2: than two hundred and forty year history. Yes, yes, And

107
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 2: last year you bought a stake at are credit firm.

108
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 3: I do believe correct.

109
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,279
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot happening in the space. What

110
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 2: are you, how do you see participating in it?

111
00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,720
Speaker 3: What are you? Are you interested in buying anything else?

112
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: Yes? Is the short and I guess so. Acquisitions that

113
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 1: absolutely have been part of Man Group's history. It's something

114
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,040
Speaker 1: we think we do well, and we do it well

115
00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 1: because we have some very clear guidelines on how we

116
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,039
Speaker 1: think about it. We think about it as something that

117
00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 1: again I'm going to sound a bit like a Breaken record,

118
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,280
Speaker 1: but it's about having additional content and capability. It's about

119
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,640
Speaker 1: providing war to clients. And so when we transacted and

120
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 1: we bought Varragan, we wanted a private credit capability. This

121
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,440
Speaker 1: was a business that was tremendously exciting sponsored about middle

122
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 1: market lending in the US. It's a great point in

123
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 1: the cycle. It's a scale of business with a tremendous

124
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 1: culture which can benefit from the operating capabilities that we

125
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 1: have at Man Group. You're going to find us thinking

126
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: about opportunities like that, but you will also find us

127
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 1: growing organically our business. So you know, between our private

128
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 1: and public credit business, we're north than thirty billion dollars

129
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 1: and you can see that that matters to clients. You

130
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,120
Speaker 1: know when I talk about clients all the time, because

131
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 1: they feed both how smart we can be. You know,

132
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,600
Speaker 1: the danger is if you think that we can all

133
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 1: turn up and sit at the table and come up

134
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,679
Speaker 1: with the singularly brilliant idea. That'd be great, and maybe

135
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,239
Speaker 1: we can do that from time to time. But actually

136
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 1: the benefit is to have the brightest minds in the room,

137
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,720
Speaker 1: and that's between my firm and with everybody that we

138
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,679
Speaker 1: work for and with to come up with that nugget

139
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: of brilliance. And in listening to clients and being responsive

140
00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:01,080
Speaker 1: to clients, it's about growing content capability, asset class that

141
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 1: can answer their questions and be part of answering some

142
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: of the navigation points we have today. It isn't straightforward

143
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 1: out there. So we're going to see man group will

144
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 1: grow through organic growth through aqua hires. If we can

145
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 1: find acquisitions that are genuinely additive to us and a

146
00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,600
Speaker 1: creative to us and to our clients, will do that.

147
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 1: But it's a constant thing that you need to have

148
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 1: at the front of your mind.

149
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,560
Speaker 2: So as you look across your business, I mean, what

150
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 2: products are you would you be most interested in potentially

151
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 2: growing through acquisition.

152
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 3: Are there gaps that you see you'd like to build or.

153
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,320
Speaker 1: I think that it's a great question. It's one of

154
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,199
Speaker 1: those ones though that suggests that somehow there's a menu

155
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,000
Speaker 1: from which I can choose from at any opportune time.

156
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be nice? That doesn't work like that, unless

157
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 1: if you know better, please let me know. So it

158
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 1: is about assessing what's out there today and what's available

159
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 1: at the right multiple, right price, with the right scale,

160
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 1: with the right culture. What I will tell you is

161
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: it won't be something that we currently do. It will

162
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,960
Speaker 1: be something that adds uncorrelated content or capability for us.

163
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,000
Speaker 1: And when I say for us, I mean for clients.

164
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,960
Speaker 1: So what would I be interested in looking forward to?

165
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 1: I like credit. I think credits a cracking opportunity still

166
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,520
Speaker 1: out there. Can I grow it? Yes? Could I buy it?

167
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,680
Speaker 1: If I can find the right thing? For sure? What

168
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 1: I won't be after in this space is something which

169
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 1: you can't scale. I think that there are very smart

170
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,840
Speaker 1: people in this audience today, and very smart people sitting

171
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,679
Speaker 1: in my firm, and we can all get quite excited

172
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 1: by smaller niche businesses that do really funky and fantastic things.

173
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 1: We can all be slightly distracted by them, and it's brilliant.

174
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,680
Speaker 1: By the way. It's not to suggest they're not valuable,

175
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,160
Speaker 1: but if you can't deploy them at scale, that's less

176
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 1: good for allocators who are trying to put money to work.

177
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 1: It's about having discipline in this place, in this space,

178
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,000
Speaker 1: as much as anything else.

179
00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 2: What about man group itself as a potential target?

180
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,040
Speaker 1: What do you think? I think that I sit in

181
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 1: this rarefied position of the CEO of this business and

182
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 1: it's a cracking business. It's been around for a while

183
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,319
Speaker 1: you just mentioned, and my job, apart from anything, is

184
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 1: to make sure that it is around for a lot longer.

185
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,320
Speaker 1: It is full of smart, capable people. We have a

186
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 1: diversity of content that is exciting and provides answers. So

187
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,360
Speaker 1: my focus is less on that question and much more

188
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,760
Speaker 1: on how I continue to grow this business. I do

189
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 1: not come into work every day and think, I know,

190
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,079
Speaker 1: is somebody going to knock on a door to day.

191
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 1: I come into work every day and I think what

192
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,079
Speaker 1: can I do for my clients?

193
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,080
Speaker 2: So you brought up the people we've talked about, the

194
00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 2: competition for assets, how fierce are.

195
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,199
Speaker 3: Competition right now for talent in your business?

196
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 1: Huge? Massive? It's always going to be that way. The

197
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: competition is in every part. If you want the very

198
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 1: best people, you have to recognize that you have to

199
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,839
Speaker 1: provide them with an environment and a space and an

200
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,720
Speaker 1: offer that makes them feel great about coming into work

201
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,880
Speaker 1: every day. So the competition is fierce. But actually I

202
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 1: feel quite good about Man's positioning. So from a discretional

203
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,560
Speaker 1: fundamental investing perspective, you know, do the platforms have you

204
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 1: an attention of war, of a tug of war of

205
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: great capability? Absolutely? But are the things that make it different?

206
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 1: Is this just about money at the end of the day. Listen,

207
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,720
Speaker 1: we work in financial services. There's a value proposition here

208
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 1: that everybody lives with. But I would wager that most

209
00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 1: people in this audience, if not everybody could go and

210
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 1: get another job tomorrow. Maybe they could go and get

211
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 1: a slight increase in their comp tomorrow, But most people

212
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,079
Speaker 1: in this audience will also think about the culture they

213
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: want to live in, the value set they're alongside, whether

214
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 1: they can grow their capability in their business. If you're

215
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,679
Speaker 1: an investor, whether you have sources of capital that come

216
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,640
Speaker 1: from more than one place. You'll think about the tech

217
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,640
Speaker 1: that you have, the operating platform you have, the access

218
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,080
Speaker 1: to clients you have. You'll think about whether you want

219
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 1: a global stage or not. In other words, this talent

220
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,320
Speaker 1: piece is not a binary thing either. If you're a technologist,

221
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,959
Speaker 1: you like dealing. My experience, we have about six hundred

222
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,840
Speaker 1: and fifty of them self identified technologists in some form

223
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,120
Speaker 1: or other quants or data scientists or models or developers.

224
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: They love being and having access to the very best technology.

225
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,480
Speaker 1: They want to be put in a box, and they

226
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 1: love solving real world problems and challenges. That's what we

227
00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,160
Speaker 1: do every day when we come to work. So you're

228
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: giving the brightest minds the best capability to solve real

229
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 1: world issues that are very very hard. That's exciting. And

230
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 1: if you do so in man group in the way

231
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,240
Speaker 1: that we do, which is in an open architected way.

232
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 1: So there's this thing called GitHub. If you haven't seen it,

233
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 1: go look it up. It's quite exciting. Technologies is get

234
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,199
Speaker 1: very excited about it. So GitHub is effectively like it's

235
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,319
Speaker 1: like one of those things where you do travelosity thing,

236
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: you know, that sort of you assess whether something's been

237
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,079
Speaker 1: good or not, and you get stars and ratings by

238
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 1: how much you've shared in this open architected world. And

239
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,960
Speaker 1: the GitHub rating for man Group is ridiculously high for

240
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,360
Speaker 1: an asset manager. I mean it's higher than most investment banks.

241
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,079
Speaker 1: That's because our developers are out there in that community,

242
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,960
Speaker 1: in an open architected space, getting access to the smartest

243
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 1: minds to fix real problems. So it's a long winded

244
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,320
Speaker 1: way of answering a question, which is is the competition

245
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,120
Speaker 1: fears for talent? Yes? But is there are really the

246
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 1: exciting opportunity set in there where if you want to

247
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 1: attract the brightest and the best and retain them and

248
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 1: inspire them because we need them to do our job

249
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 1: every day, you can do that.

250
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 2: So you brought up technology, and obviously Man has a

251
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,439
Speaker 2: long history and it's very much known for its technology.

252
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 2: I mean, how are you thinking ab about AI both

253
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 2: changing the investment industry right now and specifically Man going forward?

254
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,840
Speaker 1: So AI we sort of started to talk about it

255
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 1: like it's a brand new thing, haven't we. It's just

256
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 1: not a brand new thing. There's a bit offer at

257
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,040
Speaker 1: Man Group at the moment, whether it's ten to fifteen

258
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 1: years that we've been using AI. So not you chat GPT.

259
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,920
Speaker 1: That's a newish thing we have now man GPT. That's

260
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 1: very you can tell who may be named that with

261
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 1: those technologies aren't necessarily good at exciting new names anyway,

262
00:14:54,280 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 1: So man GPT, and we use any advanced tech chnology.

263
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,160
Speaker 1: But we've been using machine learning. We have this a

264
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 1: relationship and have had a long relationship with Oxford University

265
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: Oxford Man Institute, where we've been at the forefront of

266
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 1: machine learning and AI. More generally, we use NLP, we

267
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 1: use large language models. We are looking at lots of

268
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 1: efficiency that come out of this generative AI space. You'll

269
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,320
Speaker 1: hear about copiloting. Let's be clear, when you have copiloting,

270
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: you effectively allow the AI to help you develop your coding.

271
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,600
Speaker 1: Right our pick up level or probably about twenty percent

272
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 1: of that that's suggested in the copilot coding. Okay, just

273
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 1: by wherever reference point? Does it help you combine nonlinear

274
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 1: signals more quickly and more effectively than you've been able

275
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 1: to before? Yeah? Does it allow you to have smarter

276
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 1: sentiment analysis? Absolutely? Do we have robotics through our operations functions?

277
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: Uh huh, Yeah. I can give you any number of

278
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,400
Speaker 1: different use cases of how we deploy this technology, all

279
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: away from actually the other stuff we do, which is

280
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: looking at data signals, looking at TICK capability, looking at

281
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: the ability to find alpha a new markets or more

282
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 1: opportunities in that space. What I'm telling you, though, is

283
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 1: not making investment decision.

284
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 3: What are its limitations? From your stain.

285
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 1: Point, there are a few of them, right, I mean,

286
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 1: let's know. The wonderful thing about having six one hundred

287
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 1: and fifty plus technologists and thirty five years of heritage

288
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: in this space is you have really skilled people who

289
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 1: know both the capabilities of these tools and also know

290
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 1: the limitations, and that's incredibly important. You've probably heard of hallucination,

291
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 1: and in this context, not in the context you might

292
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 1: have heard of it in a desert, but within this

293
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 1: context too. So the interesting thing about generative AI is

294
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 1: it wants to please you. It's a bit like a puppy,

295
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,120
Speaker 1: you know, if you would throw it a stick, it

296
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 1: goes and collects the stick and it comes back so

297
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 1: and then you say, but this is the wrong stick,

298
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 1: and it goes, okay, I'll go and find you another

299
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,240
Speaker 1: stick and goes against you another stick, and they say, no,

300
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,119
Speaker 1: it's still wrong stick. Off it goes again. It does that,

301
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,120
Speaker 1: so it fills gaps for you. I suppose the way

302
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,160
Speaker 1: I think about it is this that there are tremendous

303
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,439
Speaker 1: skills and capabilities in technology that have been developed for

304
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: other industries. You have the most extraordinary neurosurgeons out there

305
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,800
Speaker 1: using these most skilled tools now which reduce the margins

306
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 1: of error. However good that technology in that capability is

307
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 1: you still do not want me operating on you? I

308
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,400
Speaker 1: would suggest that would be a bad outcome for you

309
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 1: and probably for me. The skill of these tools is

310
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 1: to be able to put them in the hands of

311
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 1: people who understand them, who can use them and understand

312
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,480
Speaker 1: their limitations. So are we excited by new tools every

313
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: day of the week? Will there be a next one?

314
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,200
Speaker 1: You know, a new one next year and the year after,

315
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,439
Speaker 1: and will we adop them for sure? Do I have

316
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,199
Speaker 1: high confidence in the people that I have sitting at

317
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: man group who know how to use them for the

318
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 1: benefit of our clients and know when to stop using

319
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 1: them because they no longer provide benefit every day?

320
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 2: So as you think about your at work, and this

321
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 2: is our last question here, I know we're running ot.

322
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 3: Of time for next year.

323
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are what are the biggest risks to the

324
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 2: upside and the downside From your perspective.

325
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: I think that I think it's it's again, it's that

326
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,679
Speaker 1: it's a fabulous question that makes me sound like I

327
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 1: can predict a market, which none of us have been

328
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 1: able to do across the entire market, across the entire space.

329
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 1: I suppose what I think is more important is that

330
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: we are looking down the lens of a space where

331
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 1: we've had a lot of speculative issues this year. We

332
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: have a little bit more certainty next year. So you know,

333
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 1: half the world's population went to the Western world went

334
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 1: to the polls this year. We had this tiny election

335
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 1: in November, tiny tiny. You know, we've got still some

336
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 1: major conflicts raging. As we look through to twenty five,

337
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 1: maybe we have some more certainty, we have more clarity

338
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 1: about what policy might come through. You've certainly have some

339
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 1: You certainly had some planning that's been set out most

340
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: recently in the US, which is going to be instructive.

341
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: But to suggest I know where the market's going to go,

342
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: can't do that for you can tell you it's all

343
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 1: of our jobs to ensure that we are prepared to

344
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: navigate what we see coming forward, and for me and

345
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,120
Speaker 1: for Man Group, it's about ensuring that we do our

346
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: very best job to return outperformance to our clients through

347
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: whatever the market cycles bring