Speaker 1: Peaks of the planet, charlamagnea god here, and as we
Speaker 1: come close to the closing out this year, I just
Speaker 1: want to say thank you for tuning it into the
Speaker 1: Black Effect podcast network. There have been so many great
Speaker 1: moments over the past year. Take a listen to some
Speaker 1: of those captivating moments in this special best of episode.
Speaker 2: She is a three time Emmy Award winning co host
Speaker 2: of ABC's The View. New York Times best selling author.
Speaker 2: I fell in love with her first ball because she
Speaker 2: is an attorney, a legal analyst, as well as a
Speaker 2: sought after speaker. Y'all already know. Y'all know who it is. Please,
Speaker 2: Sonny Houstin.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 4: Wow. You know, I remember the first time we met.
Speaker 4: I mean I had watched you perform, of course, but
Speaker 4: I remember the first time we met. We were you
Speaker 4: were walking out of a Japanese restaurant and I was
Speaker 4: walking into a Japanese restaurant and you were like, Sonny
Speaker 4: Haustin and I was like, I know, Michelle.
Speaker 3: Williams does not know who I am.
Speaker 4: So it was great and it's been great to keep
Speaker 4: in touch since then.
Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am, it has been great.
Speaker 2: It has just been awesome over the years, because.
Speaker 3: You know, I am a bootleg attorney.
Speaker 2: My college was criminal justice, so I would stay tuned
Speaker 2: and peeled into cases that made like mainstream television. And
Speaker 2: what inspired me so much was to see women of
Speaker 2: color bringing it as it related to the legal parts
Speaker 2: of all these cases that were going on.
Speaker 3: I mean, killing it sure confident.
Speaker 2: There are times where you had to set people in
Speaker 2: their place, or there are times you have to be like, no,
Speaker 2: the person did it, how did y'all not see it?
Speaker 2: How do they see it? So I'm just appreciative of you.
Speaker 2: I'm appreciative you've been what ten seasons or more on
Speaker 2: the View?
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I was just reminded of that.
Speaker 4: Have some one on the View I had said during
Speaker 4: an interview six years and she was like, no, you
Speaker 4: started guest hosting with us in twenty twelve, and I
Speaker 4: was like what She was like, yep, Barbara got you
Speaker 4: into the rotation in twenty twelve, and so I was
Speaker 4: a guest co host for a lot, like half the
Speaker 4: shows in a year, and then I've been on the
Speaker 4: show formally as a full time co host since for
Speaker 4: seven years.
Speaker 3: It went by really quickly, doesn't it go? By quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it's like.
Speaker 4: I started guest co hosting, but at the time I
Speaker 4: was working at CNN, so it was, you know, they
Speaker 4: wanted me to start at the View, but I really
Speaker 4: couldn't because I had a contract and CNN at the
Speaker 4: time was like, no, you can't get out of your contract,
Speaker 4: which in a way was a good thing for me
Speaker 4: because I was reporting out in the field. I was
Speaker 4: doing the things that you were just talking about. You know,
Speaker 4: I was covering the Trade bon Martin trial, well, the
Speaker 4: George Zimmerman traum, but the Trayvon's murder. And I was,
Speaker 4: you know, covering Casey Anthony who murdered, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: her you know, her baby, And so I was. I
Speaker 4: was in the thick of a lot of heavy stuff
Speaker 4: that was really important to me. And so in a
Speaker 4: way it was great to be able to do that
Speaker 4: that heavy lifting and give voice to our community and
Speaker 4: then get on the View and have a little bit
Speaker 4: of fun.
Speaker 3: So it was a good balance. Got it.
Speaker 2: The foundation of checking in is mental health. It just
Speaker 2: mentioned that, you know, you had to cover some heavy cases. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: I named all these brilliant things that you do, but
Speaker 2: some of the most brilliant things that you are is
Speaker 2: a wife and mother. Yes, say someone's daughter, someone's friend.
Speaker 2: How were you able to handle all of these heavy
Speaker 2: moments as far as your mental health is concerned.
Speaker 3: Learned? You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 4: I'm learning how to handle it better. I am someone
Speaker 4: who tended to internalize things. You know, I was the
Speaker 4: calm in the storm. I had a pretty chaotic upbringing
Speaker 4: because I grew up in the South Bronx projects and
Speaker 4: I saw a lot of violence and addiction, and so
Speaker 4: I was always the kid with the book that was
Speaker 4: looking for an escape from my surroundings. And it kind
Speaker 4: of grounded me. And my faith grounded me. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm Catholic, went to Catholic schools. I had a really
Speaker 4: good friendship with a nun believe it or not, sister,
Speaker 4: and she passed a couple of years ago, and I
Speaker 4: still to this day have a really good friendship with
Speaker 4: two priests, Father Edward Beck and Father Bob, and so
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 3: Able to turn to them.
Speaker 4: I didn't turn to a traditional therapists, but I turned
Speaker 4: to them for a guidance, you know, like faith guidance,
Speaker 4: Like how do I do this? Especially when I was
Speaker 4: covering a lot of the heavy stuff, and it's hard,
Speaker 4: I will say, not only covering those issues, but covering
Speaker 4: them as a public figure, and it's especially hard.
Speaker 3: On your family.
Speaker 4: And you don't think about that, or at least I
Speaker 4: didn't think about that when I first started. I just
Speaker 4: want to tell people stories. I just want to make
Speaker 4: sure people knew about Trayvon. I wanted to make sure
Speaker 4: you know that people knew about George Floyd. I just
Speaker 4: it was important to me that people knew about what
Speaker 4: was going on community. I prosecuted child sex crimes and trafficking.
Speaker 4: That was the business that I was in when I
Speaker 4: was a prosecutor, and I pretty much put myself last
Speaker 4: all the time. I wanted to make sure my daughter
Speaker 4: was okay, my son was okay, my husband was okay,
Speaker 4: and I was doing the work. But I wasn't as
Speaker 4: concerned about myself. And I would say within the past
Speaker 4: five years, especially with the help of Joy Behar and
Speaker 4: Whoopee and my co hosts asking me, are you and
Speaker 4: I started kind of taking stock in that and I
Speaker 4: was like, some days I'm great, but sometimes I'm actually
Speaker 4: not okay, And it's okay to say I'm not Okay,
Speaker 4: it's okay to say I.
Speaker 3: Think I'm gonna have to take a mental health day
Speaker 3: off today because I need to.
Speaker 4: You know, I live on kind of a modified farm,
Speaker 4: so I'm like, I need to go out with my chickens,
Speaker 4: I need to tend to my beehives. I need to
Speaker 4: be with my two hundred and fifty pounds New Finland dogs.
Speaker 4: I need to just spend some time for me. And
Speaker 4: that's been extremely helpful. But it took me a minute
Speaker 4: to understand what self care meant and how if I
Speaker 4: am not good and centered mentally, that I am not
Speaker 4: good and centered for anybody else.
Speaker 2: His authenticity is what won the hearts of millions, went
Speaker 2: on to work with and have his own show through
Speaker 2: Ellen DeGeneres, and is now transitioning and doing so many
Speaker 2: great things. He is someone's friend. He is someone's son.
Speaker 2: To us, we love him. He is Kaylin Allen. Have
Speaker 2: you heard Tapitha Brown's story, Yes, kind of the same
Speaker 2: thing where she says she heard a voice say, get
Speaker 2: your phone, use your phone, and to see what you
Speaker 2: two have done just by the power of making good
Speaker 2: use out of the phone, bringing joy to people's hearts.
Speaker 2: Because people use their phones for evil. I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: say it, but y'all, you use your phone to make us?
Speaker 2: Did you know you were you trying to make us laugh?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 5: And you know what's so funny about that. And I
Speaker 5: tell people this all the time is that I'm not
Speaker 5: a comedian. And it's like, I just know I'm a
Speaker 5: comedic entertainer. I know comedy. I just know what's funny.
Speaker 5: And it's really a lot of times it's just how
Speaker 5: I talk. It's just how I express myself. It's just
Speaker 5: who I am, you know. So it's just like I
Speaker 5: don't see it as I'm sitting down, like writing down
Speaker 5: a joke or something like that.
Speaker 3: It's just like every now.
Speaker 5: And to be honest, even the way that I make
Speaker 5: content now, it's all off a feeling. I don't believe
Speaker 5: in making content. Just to say that i'd have made
Speaker 5: some content or whatever, I have to feel it. So
Speaker 5: for instance, like the other day, I was at the
Speaker 5: grocery store and these two boys call me sir, and
Speaker 5: so then something in my spirit was like this would
Speaker 5: be a funny video. So I went home. I was like,
Speaker 5: I already know what I want to say, I know
Speaker 5: how I want to say, I'm a pressure record and
Speaker 5: I'm gonna talk to this phone for a minute and
Speaker 5: thirty seconds, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And what I realized after.
Speaker 5: That video is that I think because because it is
Speaker 5: so natural to me, I think it becomes so believable
Speaker 5: that people think that I actually really care about it.
Speaker 5: If that makes of being like and I'm like, I
Speaker 5: don't really care that these boys call me sir, Like
Speaker 5: that's not that is not keeping me up at night,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. But it's like it's a
Speaker 5: part of the comedy, is a part of the hysteria
Speaker 5: of it Allfore.
Speaker 2: I love it. I have those moments and where I
Speaker 2: should press for corpor then I'm self conscious, like, well,
Speaker 2: you don't have no makeup. You gotta do this, you
Speaker 2: gotta do that, don't be coming on looking busted. So
Speaker 2: a lot of my thoughts just stay thoughts. But I'm
Speaker 2: going to try to do some more natural moments of
Speaker 2: you know, spontaneous filming.
Speaker 5: Now, where do you feel like that self consciousness comes from?
Speaker 5: Where does it stem from?
Speaker 4: So this could you interview with me?
Speaker 3: I can't help it.
Speaker 2: I can't help so, Okay, I know where it comes from.
Speaker 2: It comes from always being known or seen as glamour,
Speaker 2: hair and makeup always done, and it's like I should
Speaker 2: at least have on some lipsticks. Okay, I'm not saying
Speaker 2: one that comes on natural with no makeup done or
Speaker 2: no hair. I'm not saying that they're wrong, but it's
Speaker 2: just like if I don't, will it be like, ooh,
Speaker 2: what's she going through today summer? Okay, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but that's me overthinking assuming what people are thinking, and
Speaker 2: they're probably not. They probably don't care.
Speaker 3: Well, I would say that the flip is.
Speaker 5: I think it's also the fact of like you, being
Speaker 5: in the industry at a time before social media, but
Speaker 5: at the level that you were doing it as well.
Speaker 5: I can understand why you would have that perspective, and
Speaker 5: I think the industry has changed so much in today's
Speaker 5: day and age.
Speaker 3: It's that it's two different times, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So I don't think it has anything to do with
Speaker 3: you overthinking at all. I think it's you thinking in
Speaker 3: what you're used to and what it used to be,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, which that I can understand.
Speaker 2: And this has been your ask, doctor kaylen Hermett, because
Speaker 2: thank you, though you are so right, you're spot on.
Speaker 2: That's why I was sitting in the spirit of hush,
Speaker 2: because I was like, Caitlen is actually spot on. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 3: I just try to add perspective to stuff.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: I think I'm very especially so. And I don't know
Speaker 5: if I've even told you this before. Is that I
Speaker 5: plan on when this is, you know, when I decide
Speaker 5: I want to retire and I want to like, you know,
Speaker 5: sit down or somewhere. I plan to become a therapist too,
Speaker 5: specifically to people that work in the industry, because in
Speaker 5: my experience in going to therapy, therapists could only understand
Speaker 5: the everyday stuff, but when it came to industry stuff,
Speaker 5: they had no idea of how to help me, and
Speaker 5: a lot of especially in earlier that was a lot
Speaker 5: of my issues. We're rooted in navigating the industry, and
Speaker 5: it was just like, well, who am I supposed to
Speaker 5: talk to?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? So I want to be
Speaker 3: able to be that resource to people.
Speaker 2: So you think we should go to school together and
Speaker 2: open up a practice.
Speaker 3: Come on, let's go, we should let's go. I like that.
Speaker 3: Let's go. I like that. Go okay, I'll let you
Speaker 3: get back to the interviewer.
Speaker 2: No, no, we no, because it's going to flow.
Speaker 3: Ince a half of.
Speaker 2: Eighty percent of what we're talking about ain't even you
Speaker 2: right about it? So you did a reaction video.
Speaker 3: Now wait a minute.
Speaker 2: Were people that you did reaction videos to did they
Speaker 2: actually get offended?
Speaker 3: Some?
Speaker 5: Some at first? But it was never like a big thing.
Speaker 5: But I do remember. I think there was at some
Speaker 5: point when the videos would be, you know, featured on
Speaker 5: Kaitlin or on Ellen, that people would be like, well,
Speaker 5: we need to cut, you know, like because it was like.
Speaker 3: A cut of the revenue.
Speaker 2: You know, no, no, you ain't need what you cook
Speaker 2: needed to be cut?
Speaker 3: Okay, exactly exactly, they were right, it needed to be cut.
Speaker 3: Exactly cut the video.
Speaker 5: But the fun you think about that is that technically
Speaker 5: it's a parody, you know, because it's like a commentary
Speaker 5: or whatever. But you know, when you when you're dealing
Speaker 5: with something that was getting that many views. I think
Speaker 5: once I left Ellen on Kaitlin itself had already done
Speaker 5: over a billion views in itself, So it's like when
Speaker 5: you have stuff with that magnitude, of course, people want
Speaker 5: to you know, cash in or get a cut of
Speaker 5: the check or whatever. I didn't really care about that
Speaker 5: because I don't that's not why I make stuff. But yeah, no,
Speaker 5: I think what was also crazy about it was just
Speaker 5: that then, And this is why I stopped doing them,
Speaker 5: was because I noticed that people were just making videos
Speaker 5: to that were just nasty. And I think for me,
Speaker 5: everything is about authenticity, you know. And so I was like,
Speaker 5: I would watch a video and I'd be like, that's
Speaker 5: not real, you know, and me talking about like how
Speaker 5: I'm not a comedian. It's like, I'm not about to
Speaker 5: sit here and just write a couple of jokes to
Speaker 5: try and make this funny, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: It's like I don't ever want to be a character
Speaker 5: or or for it to feel inauthentic. So I was
Speaker 5: just like, so I just won't do it that much.
Speaker 5: I'll just find something else to do, you know what
Speaker 5: I mean.
Speaker 2: I'm still stuck on because we saw the videos and
Speaker 2: then wow, I'm just tripping, Like you said, it was
Speaker 2: only three months later that Ellen DeGeneres calls you and
Speaker 2: then you literally saunter and Sashet and strut out on
Speaker 2: that show and you sit down and you cross your
Speaker 2: legs and you're sitting with Ellen Degenerous.
Speaker 3: This is what twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. So I take
Speaker 3: the first episode December of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: And so what was that like, you get the phone
Speaker 2: call to go out there? What?
Speaker 5: Well, it was a whirlwind. Kansas born, very much, so,
Speaker 5: very much. So it was a whirlwind, you know. I
Speaker 5: So my first idea was that I was going to
Speaker 5: show up. They was gonna give me a cute little
Speaker 5: shutterfly check and I was gonna go buy my bas
Speaker 5: like That's what I thought it was gonna be. And
Speaker 5: then I wasn't expecting to be offered the job. And
Speaker 5: so when I was off at the job, I said
Speaker 5: yes on the show. I remember I left there. I
Speaker 5: was staying at the Hilton in Universal City.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 5: So I was at the Hilton, and I remember the
Speaker 5: next day. I think my flight may have been in
Speaker 5: the evening or something. I was like, Okay, well I'm
Speaker 5: gonna get up go to Universal Studios. I ain't never been,
Speaker 5: you know, I'm gonna go buy myself and go have
Speaker 5: hun and I member I got to university and I
Speaker 5: called up at that time my acting teacher at Temple.
Speaker 3: I said this is the deal. I was offered a job.
Speaker 3: I need to move to LA.
Speaker 5: The original contract did not say I needed to move
Speaker 5: to LA, but I knew that if I moved to LA,
Speaker 5: then I would be you used more. They would use
Speaker 5: me more because I was there. I was more convenient,
Speaker 5: they didn't have to pay for travel and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: And so I was like, we need to figure out
Speaker 5: how I can finish my degrees in LA and with
Speaker 5: this move needs to happen asap. So I flew back
Speaker 5: to Temple, packed up all my stuff.
Speaker 3: We figured it out.
Speaker 5: I did claims at night while I was at Ellen,
Speaker 5: and then I moved to Los Angeles. But I will
Speaker 5: say that it was very scary at first, and to
Speaker 5: be honest, it's probably one of my most depressive moments
Speaker 5: of my life. And the reason is is because I
Speaker 5: was thrown into something with little to no guidance as
Speaker 5: so far as how it operated and how it worked,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Also, and when I got.
Speaker 5: The job, I was working five jobs in college like
Speaker 5: I was used to, you know, working, working, working BBB,
Speaker 5: and now my only job is the Ellen Degenerate Show.
Speaker 3: But this is before on Kaitln.
Speaker 5: This is before regular appearances, so it's just like an
Speaker 5: every down. And then so I'm just sitting in the apartment,
Speaker 5: Like I'm just sitting in my apartment watching TV all day.
Speaker 5: It was driving me insane. I was like, I'm so bored.
Speaker 5: I was in like a furnished apartment, so it really
Speaker 5: wasn't mine. So the apartment was just like there and
Speaker 5: it was dark. There wasn't a lot of sunlight. I
Speaker 5: was like, I can't do this. This is sad. I
Speaker 5: don't like it. So then that was when I asked
Speaker 5: for an office at Warner Brothers, because I was like,
Speaker 5: give me purpose, give me somewhere I can go, you know.
Speaker 5: And then I think that that was really why then
Speaker 5: everything else started to happen. Was because I was very
Speaker 5: hands on, and you know me, I'm a very vocal person.
Speaker 5: I am very like all toesy in you know what
Speaker 5: I mean. So that's just who I am.
Speaker 2: I'm so thankful that y'all continue to check in and
Speaker 2: subscribe and download our podcast. Now today, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: I've said that word about three times already in the
Speaker 2: span of one minute to have this beautiful guest checking
Speaker 2: in with us. Her name is Deabbie Brown. When I
Speaker 2: tell y'all, she is so soothing. She focuses on mental health,
Speaker 2: you know, an advocate for healing. She is an author,
Speaker 2: a successful podcaster, master educator, and y'all, she works for
Speaker 2: organizations such as Chase, Microsoft, Chopra and other Fortune five
Speaker 2: hundred companies.
Speaker 3: Please welcome Debbie Brown. Yay, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2: Girl. You talk about naming your wounds and how there's
Speaker 2: strength in it, and thank you for that. How does
Speaker 2: a person name their wounds? It is a long, slow,
Speaker 2: beautiful process.
Speaker 6: Our healing is a lot of things, but one thing
Speaker 6: it isn't is like a one weekend session of something right.
Speaker 6: It is the continued practice. It is building a system
Speaker 6: of curiosity with the way that you view yourself and
Speaker 6: your life. And so self awareness is what allows us
Speaker 6: to come into our healing. And the more self aware
Speaker 6: we become, the more we're able to look at the
Speaker 6: things that have really hurt us in our lives, the
Speaker 6: easier it is to look at our own behaviors and
Speaker 6: not be in judgment of them. Sometimes it's really hard
Speaker 6: for people to come into self awareness because being honest
Speaker 6: with yourself hurts, you know, it can feel really defeating.
Speaker 6: For some people that have had traumatic backgrounds, it also
Speaker 6: means meeting experiences in their lives that didn't receive their consent,
Speaker 6: that they didn't deserve, and looking at.
Speaker 3: That stuff is hard.
Speaker 6: It does feel easier to pretend things didn't happen. It
Speaker 6: does feel easier to bypass that and to just try
Speaker 6: to instantly push yourself into a positive thought.
Speaker 3: But it is not sustainable.
Speaker 6: Everyone who has ever tried that knows you may be
Speaker 6: projecting a look of yourself to the world, but you're
Speaker 6: not feeling it in your own heart. You deserve more.
Speaker 6: You deserve more. You deserve real healing, not performative healing.
Speaker 6: For that to happen, we just have to really be
Speaker 6: willing gently to look at the truth of our individual lives,
Speaker 6: the truth of our behavior, the truth of our experiences,
Speaker 6: as soon as we're able to do that. And for
Speaker 6: anyone listening that may have a story that you think
Speaker 6: that makes sense for everyone else, but not me, because
Speaker 6: this happened to me.
Speaker 3: I hear you.
Speaker 6: And it's about releasing yourself from that cell. It's about
Speaker 6: saying it out loud. It is about saying it and
Speaker 6: sharing it with trusted people who give you this space
Speaker 6: to talk about yourself without trying to cover you with
Speaker 6: their discomfort or their advice or their spiritual bypassing. It's
Speaker 6: about giving yourself, however much time you need to say
Speaker 6: it out loud, but saying it out loud so it
Speaker 6: can free you and you can release it, and you
Speaker 6: can reframe the narrative of who you are.
Speaker 3: And how you became.
Speaker 2: That as we hold our hearts and what you might
Speaker 2: want to call your abdomen or your stomach, just take
Speaker 2: this hold. Let this just be stable center. In this
Speaker 2: last I closed my eyes as Debbie was talking, and
Speaker 2: I received it as a prayer, a prayer for myself
Speaker 2: and as a prayer for the person listening, and as
Speaker 2: a prayer for Debbie as she continues this healing work
Speaker 2: through individuals and for corporations and to the world that
Speaker 2: we continue healing. It is deserved. It's not for the
Speaker 2: rich person, it's not for the person that's never been abused.
Speaker 2: It is for you, and it's for me. You are loved.
Speaker 2: Know that I don't care what your abuse and trauma.
Speaker 2: I don't care what the lie say to you. You
Speaker 2: are loved. We're with you. You're not alone.
Speaker 7: Release, release, release. You deserve, you deserve, you deserve. Who
Speaker 7: do you want to be? Who are you being called
Speaker 7: to become? Grace and ease will cover you say yes?
Speaker 2: M hm yes amen.
Speaker 4: Wow oh that was so beautiful.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, wow.
Speaker 2: Oh this is what checking in the Foundation must be
Speaker 2: about and must continue to be this And thank you
Speaker 2: Debbie for joining.
Speaker 3: Me intident once again. Thank you for tuning into the
Speaker 3: Black Effect Podcast Network.
Speaker 1: See you in twenty twenty five for more great moments
Speaker 1: from your favorite podcast