1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld. More biographies have been written 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: about Richard Nixon than any other contemporary US president or politician. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: Yet many modern biographies of Nixon have been consumed with Watergate. 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: All have arguably missed the most important perspective on Nixon. 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: Nixon was the only US president born and raised in California. 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: He had a remarkable romance with his wife Pat and 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: followed a unique path into politics that led him to Washington, 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: d C. In the nation's highest office. After Watergate, he 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: returned to his roots in southern California and eventually returned 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: to the world stage. In his new book, Richard Nixon, 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: California's Native Son, author Paul Carter describes Nixon's deep, defining 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: roots in California and challenges common misperceptions about our thirty 13 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: seventh president. Carter spent over a decade reviewing archival material 14 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: about Nixon's life, some of which has never been written 15 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: about before. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Paul Carter. 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: He is an attorney with more than twenty years of 17 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: experience in investigation and trial work. He is the author 18 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: of the biographical map Native Son Richard Nixon, Southern California. Paul, 19 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on News World. 20 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much, speaker of Gingrich for having 21 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 2: me here. It's a pleasure to be with you. Sir. 22 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: Let me start with why did you decide to do 23 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: a biography of Nixon. 24 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: I'm a product at public school, and I don't have 25 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: a dog in this fight over Richard Nixon. I wasn't 26 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: old enough to have any formative opinions about as presidency. 27 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen sixty five, and everything I 28 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: heard about him was basically unfavorable from public schools. And 29 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: I served in the Navy under the command of Rodney 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 2: Allen Knutson, who was one of the longest held and 31 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: most extensively tortured POWs in the mid nineteen eighties, and 32 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: Nixon had him released when he negotiated the release of 33 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: the POW's at the end of Vietnam. And Captain Knutson 34 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: inspired me to go to college, and so while I 35 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: was at cal State Fullerden, I volunteered as a docent 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: at the Nixon Library. And when I met Richard Nixon 37 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety one, it really made all of 38 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: my preconceived notions about him evaporate, and I then went 39 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: on about my life, finished college, went to law school, 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: and ultimately I decided to make a map of Richard 41 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: nixon Southern California life because he's the only Southern Californian 42 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: to become President of the United States. And in researching that, 43 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: I wanted to know what did the kids do when 44 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: he was a kid? And I started reviewing oral histories 45 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: of Richard Nixon, and in doing that, this story was 46 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: screaming to be told about how all of his friends 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: and colleagues and associates discussed what his life was like 48 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: back in those days, and it was the complete opposite 49 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: of what most authors have described as his youth growing up. 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: He wasn't paranoid or an outsider or unpopular, He didn't 51 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: have a chip on his shoulder. Everyone described this amazing 52 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: all American young man that grew up. And so it 53 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 2: was really a book that was screaming to be told 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: that I was drawn into because he was the Southern 55 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: California President. 56 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: So when you talk about making him out, what do 57 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: you mean, literally, what were you doing? 58 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: I mentioned that I was in the Navy with Captain 59 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: running On Knutson, and there was a guy on our 60 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: ship that I ended up reconnecting with him in two 61 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: thousand and nine, and everyone had talked about how he 62 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 2: was going to become an admiral, and he did not 63 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: become an admiral, but his brother did. And they arranged 64 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: for me in two thousand and nine to go out 65 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: to the USS Princeton and I happened to be with 66 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: the mayor of Woodier. I off handedly asked him, do 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 2: you have all of the places where Nixon lived when 68 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: he was growing up designated? And he told me, well, 69 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: you know, we basically lost track of all that. And 70 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: so I thought to myself, I'm going to make a map, 71 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: kind of like the Hollywood map of the Star's homes 72 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: where it's kind of cartoonish, and just show everyone where 73 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: Nixon lived and worked and had his life in southern California. 74 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: And that's what I mean by a map. It was 75 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: literally a map. And I'm not a cartographer. I'm a 76 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: real estate attorney, and so I had to hire a 77 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: map designer and do the research. And that map was 78 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: actually sold at the Nixon Library. 79 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: That's wild you got drawn into this and I was 80 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: just looking at the research you did. Can you just 81 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: describe it. Frankly, it's about as comprehensive as any research 82 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: What was fascinating was I started with two hundred oral 84 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 2: histories from cal State Fullerdan of Nixon intimates, and then 85 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: I got my hands on four hundred additional oral histories 86 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 2: from what your college, and those were seized in the 87 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: Watergate seizure, and so those really weren't released until about 88 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, and that was ten thousand pages 89 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 2: of oral histories. I digested all of that, and then 90 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: I dove into the archives and I went through about 91 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty five thousand pages of materials at 92 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 2: the archives. And what was really interesting there was when 93 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 2: Loie Gaunt and Marjacker, who are Nixon staffers, boxed all 94 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: this stuff up back in the Senate days, the congressional days, 95 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: the vice presidential days, the nineteen sixties. They had the 96 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 2: document stapled and paper clipped and they put them into boxes. 97 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 2: And as I was going through them, I was having 98 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: to bring them to the archivists and have the staples 99 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: removed because they'd rusted through, and those old steel paper 100 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: clips had rusted through, and you have to have the 101 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: archivists that the National Archives removed those binders from them 102 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 2: so that you can separate the pages, and so I 103 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: knew no one had ever looked at this stuff. And 104 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: then I started talking to Nixon intimates, and I gradually 105 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: was able to break into their kind of cocoon, and 106 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: I ended up interviewing over sixty Nixon intimates, and just 107 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: as a fascinating all American story to tell the actual 108 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: life story of Richard Nixon, because it is so all American. 109 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: I started in two thousand and nine and the book 110 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: was published on September first, twenty twenty three. And he 111 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: really had to take years of going through. You know, 112 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: I've spent over seven weeks in the National Archives digging 113 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: through items. And when I would go down, I wouldn't 114 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: read the materials, I'd photograph them. One day of that 115 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: the archives might actually turn into five days of research materials. 116 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: It's a mind boggling amount of information to go through 117 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: and construct. 118 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: You like to comment that if you took everything you did, 119 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: it would be fifty six feet of information. You spent 120 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: almost as much time with Nixon as Nixon did. 121 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: Yes, it's quite a track down a rabbit hole if 122 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: you figured out it goes five stories down. 123 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: Did you find the more you learn, the more you 124 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: were drawn in. 125 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely, the more I looked into his life, the 126 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: more it just pulled me in further and further, because 127 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: it is such a fascinating all American story where people 128 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: will say Richard Nixon like to write letters, or he 129 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: didn't like to accept honorarium for speaking. And I would 130 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: find letters where he would write to people and he 131 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 2: would turn down their honorarium, and then when they send 132 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: it to him anyways, he would send them back in 133 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: accounting with what he did with the money, telling them, well, 134 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: I think you would have liked this charity, so I 135 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: donated the money of this charity. And sometimes I even 136 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: found where he did the math wrong and he would 137 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: donate more to charity than they sent him in honorarium. 138 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: And when you're finding these nuggets of information and you're 139 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: discovering this information about somebody and you're really getting the 140 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: perspective that no one has seen on a broad public scale, 141 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: you can't help but be just pulled into it and fascinated. 142 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: And I'm a trial turning so I always look at evidence, 143 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 2: and I'm always examining evidence. I'm always doing investigation, and 144 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: so I'm probably predisposed to enjoy that anyways, but it 145 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: was fascinating to me. I'm still doing it. I'm doing 146 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: a deep dive right now on his World War Two 147 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 2: service and it's just fascinating to really dig into those years. 148 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: Why do you think nobody else is on earth the 149 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: real Richard Nixon? 150 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: Because in the nineteen seventies you had a couple of authors, 151 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: and back in those days they were coming out with 152 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: psycho historians, and von Brody was one of them. And 153 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 2: I kind of jokingly say that she was one of 154 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: the first to write and she hated nexton. She said 155 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: she despised them, and she looked at his life through 156 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 2: a prism that I say other authors look at the 157 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: doe wide prism of von Brody, where you want to 158 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 2: construct a history that meets your preconceptions that he's somehow 159 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: a villain. You start with the concept that he's a villain, 160 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: and now you have to fill in the material to 161 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: support that background, and it's just nonsense. He's not a villain, 162 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: and he's quite all American, and if you look at 163 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 2: what he did, everything he ever did was in support 164 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: of America, not challenging the nineteen sixty election results when 165 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: there was overwhelming evidence a fraud and walking away from 166 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: that and entering private practice, leaving the White House rather 167 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: than fighting. It was in his best interest to stay 168 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: and fight, but it was in the country's best interest 169 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: to move on. And it really is fascinating. And if 170 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: you look at his history, look at all the women 171 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: that's stuck by him from his earliest days. Even Evelyn Dorn, 172 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: who was his legal secretary in nineteen thirty seven, was 173 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 2: dedicated to him the rest of her life. Louie Gaunt 174 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: marje Acker from the Senate days dedicated to him the 175 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: rest of his life, and their lives. And a bad 176 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: character of villain. He doesn't develop that type of loyalty, 177 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: especially amongst women that are hardworking in Pennant people themselves. 178 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: When do you think he became ambitious? 179 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 2: Oh, from the jump. When he was living in Yorba 180 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: Linda five six seven years old, his mom taught him 181 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: how to read. He would run barefoot to the library daily, 182 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 2: sometimes twice a day, to pick up books that he 183 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: would read. And I think he was born ambitious, and 184 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: he grew up in a very hard working, independent, self 185 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: reliant family and he always pursued the best in himself. 186 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 2: When he was in the eighth grade, he said that 187 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: his plans for the future were to graduate from whit 188 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: are your high school and whit your college, and go 189 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: to law school so that he could be of some 190 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: good to the people. And he basically lived that in 191 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: his entire life, which is fascinating because most people say 192 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: they want to be a fireman or a police officer 193 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: at that age, but he lived his life stream. 194 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: One of his preeminent characteristics was he was an amazingly 195 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: good debater, and of course altimately proved during the nineteen 196 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: sixties when he went back to New York that he 197 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: was really a very, very good lawyer. My sense was 198 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: that his high school debating career was a part of 199 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: that honing process and that confidence building. 200 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 2: Process, absolutely, and it started even before high school. He 201 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: started at Eastwoodier Elementary in the fifth grade when his 202 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: family moved back from yurber lind in nineteen twenty two, 203 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 2: and he had some teachers there that really encouraged debate, 204 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: and he would debate over topics like, you know, whether 205 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: it was better to own a home or rent, or 206 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 2: whether a cow was more productive than a horse. And 207 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: by the time he was in high school, he was 208 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: now skilled at debate and formulating arguments. And the Los 209 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: Angeles Times used to have these constitutional oratorical contests that 210 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 2: they sponsored, and he was a champion of those constitutional 211 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: oratorical contests by the tenth grade. And then he would 212 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: challenge his classmates at school to argue whether a giraffe 213 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: with the sore throat suffered more than a centipede with corns. 214 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 2: And he just had that extreme talent. And then in 215 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 2: Woodier College, his family would lend Woodier College their family 216 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: car and they would go on debate competition tours up 217 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: the North coast all the way to Washington or sometimes 218 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: out to Utah, and I think one year he won 219 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: all twenty nine contests and was the extoraneous speaking champion 220 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 2: of Los Angeles. You know, just tremendous success in debate. 221 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: He actually was chosen by the Harvard Club of California 222 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: as their best all around student, and then both Harvard 223 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: and Yale offered him scholarships to go to two of 224 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: the preeminent universities in the country, and he turned him down. 225 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, his brother Harold was ill and had turriculosis. In fact, 226 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: he died when he was a junior in college, and 227 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: Nixon knew he had to stay with the family and 228 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 2: help out with the family and with everything that was 229 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: going on with Harold and his illness. 230 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: But then when he does graduate from whatever, he does 231 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: go to Duke. 232 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: On a full scholarship and had tremendous success. He was 233 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: president of the Duke Bar Association, the student bar association. 234 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: He was in the top three in his class. He 235 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: was offered a job in New York and turned it 236 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 2: down afterwards to come back to Whittier and pursue his 237 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 2: dream of entering politics. 238 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: Ultimately, were you able to talk to students who knew 239 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: him like a Duke? 240 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 2: Not at Duke, But I was able to talk to 241 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: Hubert Perry, who went to college with him at Woodi 242 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 2: your high school, and at Whittier College. 243 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: How did he describe Nixon? 244 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: Oh, he thought Nixon was just brilliant. He knew that 245 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: Nixon was on his way. He always knew that Nixon 246 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: was going to the top. You know, listen to this. 247 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: When he was graduating Whittier College, his classmates, the jocks 248 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: on campus, they wrote him a letter and is said, 249 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: out of every graduating class there's at least one person 250 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: that becomes an outstanding person, and we all believe that 251 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 2: you were destined to be that person, and then they 252 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: signed their name to it. It's fascinating to see those 253 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: types of materials and discover them in the archives. 254 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: Now. He graduates from Duke in thirty seven. What does 255 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: he do between then and going into the military. 256 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: He comes home to Whittier, takes California Bar exam. He 257 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: passes on the first try, and he goes to work 258 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: at Wingerton Beuley and the Premier Law Firman Whittier. They 259 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: are pretty much representing corporate and estate planning clients. He 260 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: becomes their chief trial Attorney. He also becomes the Whittier 261 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: Assistant City Attorney. He is Treasurer of the Whittier Bar Association. 262 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: He's president of the Duke Alumni Association. He's president of 263 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: the Whittier College Alumni Association. He's invited to be on 264 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: the Board of Trustees at Whittier College and he's the 265 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: youngest member ever and he's on the board with former 266 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: First Lady lou Henry Hoover. He's chairman of the twenty 267 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: thirty Service Club. He is the program chair of the 268 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: Junior Chamber of Commerce. He taught up course in practical 269 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: lot at Woodier College. He was the first president of 270 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: the newly formed Orange County Association of Cities. He's saying 271 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 2: baseness choir. He led a popularly quicker young people's classic church. 272 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: The church would haul their piano up into the hills 273 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: of East Woodier so that he could play for the 274 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: sunrise service at Easter. And he's dating Patricia Ryan. And 275 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: he went into the development of frozen orange juice with 276 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: a company called Citrafrost, and now that failed ultimately, But 277 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: all of those activities, and it's only within a four 278 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 2: year period between mid nineteen thirty seven and December of 279 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: nineteen forty one when he then goes off to the OPA, 280 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: the Officer Price Administration. And it's just amazingly all American activities, 281 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: you know. Like I mentioned, he was at the twenty 282 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: thirty Service Club, and he would still go give talks 283 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: at other service clubs like the Rotary. He'd play their 284 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: club songs on the piano and lead sing alongs. He 285 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: would discuss ballot propositions before the general election, just NonStop activity. 286 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: How does he end up in the Navy? 287 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: He went to the Office of Price Administration, and he 288 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: reported that on January ninth, nineteen forty two. It's actually 289 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: quite fascinating because this is where, for the first time 290 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: in his life, his individuality and his reliance on the 291 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: individual as opposed to the government is first challenge, because 292 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: the OPA is in charge of rationing, and he sees 293 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: how people are heady with power, the way they can 294 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 2: control small businesses across the country. Because he was actually 295 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: in the tire rationing department and at the time, all 296 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: of the rubber was coming from Southeast Asia, which was 297 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: taken over by Japan, and so America's supply of rubber 298 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 2: was almost virtually cut off, and they had to limit 299 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: public consumption of tires. And so he sees how people 300 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: really like this power of government and this authoritarian nature 301 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: of the New Deal liberalism, and he doesn't like it 302 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: at all. And by March second, less than two months, 303 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: he's taking steps to join the United States Navy. And 304 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: you're talking about a man that gets seasick. You know, 305 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 2: the summer before he had gone on a cruise with 306 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: pat through the Caribbean, and he was seasick almost the 307 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,239 Speaker 2: whole time. And he goes off to the Navy by 308 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 2: August seventeenth. 309 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: Before we talk about the war. What's the relationship like 310 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: with Pat? I mean, she's with him his whole life, 311 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: and they seem to have been remarkably close. But how 312 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: does all that start. 313 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 2: They met when they were both auditioning for the performance 314 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: of The Dark Tower in the Community theater. I told 315 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 2: you all those things he did in that period, Well, 316 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: he was also acting in community theater. The first night 317 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: they were auditioning he met Pat. He told her that 318 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: night they'd be married. And that was in early nineteen 319 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 2: thirty eight, and they were married in nineteen forty and 320 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: he was just head over hills in love with her. 321 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 2: You know, Pat is a very remark makable woman in 322 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 2: her own right. Her mother died when she was twelve, 323 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: and her father died when she was eighteen. And she's 324 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: down on a little farm here in Artesia, about ten 325 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: miles away from Whittier as the crow flies. And she 326 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: puts herself through the University of Southern California, and then 327 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: she takes a teaching position at Whittier High School. And 328 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 2: she used to say that the only reason why she 329 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: took the position when she was destined to meet and 330 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: marry Richard Nixon in his own hometown, and they had 331 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 2: a great, great relationship. 332 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: She had already taken the position before she met him. 333 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, she had taken a position. She was teaching at 334 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 2: Whittier High School and she was teaching in the business department, 335 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: and she was also teaching night courses and typing. And 336 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: one of her students recommended she try out for the 337 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 2: local community theater. So she went out to dinner at 338 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: the Hoover Hotel in downtown Whittier and then walked over 339 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 2: to Saint Matthias Church and there she met Richard Nixon 340 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: and he drove her home that night and told her 341 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 2: they be married. 342 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: How long did they court? 343 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: They courted from February nineteen thirty eight to June nineteen 344 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: when they were married, and he was head over hills 345 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 2: in love and they would write each other love notes, 346 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 2: and here's how much in love. He was. Pat used 347 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: to love to ice skate, and Richard Nixon was not 348 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: a good ice skater, and he had a friend from 349 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 2: what are Your College that actually grew up in Iowa 350 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 2: and was an accomplished ice skater. And that kid's name 351 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 2: was Kenny Ball, And so several years after they graduated 352 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 2: from what Your College, Kenny Ball was surprised when he 353 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 2: saw Nixon turn up at the ice skating rink. Kenny 354 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 2: Ball said that after about three days of practice, Nixon 355 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: wasn't getting any better. In fact, he was getting worse. 356 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: And one day in particular, he saw Nixon flying across 357 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: the ice so hard he hid his face on the 358 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 2: ice and he was all covered in blood. And so 359 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: Kenny goes over and he picks him up, and he says, Dick, 360 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 2: why do you keep doing this to yourself? And Nixon 361 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 2: looks up at him and he tells them, because I've 362 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 2: got a great date to go ice skating with on 363 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: Saturday night, and I must be able to keep up. 364 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: He was dedicated, well, I mean, I think he had 365 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: a reputation for working unbelievably hard and whatever he did. 366 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: So he goes off to war, comes back and has 367 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: his opportunity to get into politics. 368 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 2: Yes, and interestingly, most people will tell you, you know, 369 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 2: if you read those early biographies, they'll say that one 370 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 2: of the reasons why he had a chip on his 371 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: shoulder is that he always wanted to be part of 372 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: that Northeast establishment and wanted to be in a big 373 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 2: New York law firm. Well, he's in Lower Manhattan in 374 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: the last six months of nineteen forty five and actually 375 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: more than that, almost all of nineteen forty five. And 376 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: he's at ninety Church Street, which is where the Oculus 377 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: is located now. It's right in the heart of Lower 378 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 2: Manhattan next to where the World Trade Centers were. He's 379 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 2: settling war contracts as the war is winding down, and 380 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 2: he's so successful that he's awarded a letter of commendation 381 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: to go along with the letter of commendation he got 382 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: for his combat service in World War Two down the 383 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: South Pacific. And he had multiple friends from serving in 384 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 2: the South Pacific that were from New York. And he 385 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: could have in New York and worked there. I mean, 386 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: he could have written his own ticket, but he decided 387 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 2: to go home and take on Jerry vorheas who You're 388 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: going to know this better than I could ever. You'll 389 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 2: know how assured he was of reelection. Jerry Vorheast was 390 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: a five term incumbent Democrat. He had soundly beaten all 391 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: of his Republican challengers before then. He was voted best 392 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: Congressman in West of the Mississippi and was rated as 393 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 2: having the third safest seat in the House Representatives. And 394 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: Richard Nixon gives up everything on the East Coast to 395 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 2: come home and take him on, and the Republican Party 396 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 2: wouldn't even really support the candidacy. That's how really, how 397 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: he got the nomination was it was a bunch of 398 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 2: local people got together and said, well, you know, we're 399 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 2: going to do our own rag tech campaign. And they 400 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: found Nixon, and Nixon took on vorheas. They had five debates, 401 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 2: and Nixon just completely annihilated him in those debates, and 402 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: that's what was the real change in that election. And 403 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: Nixon just outworked him and he beat him. 404 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: Is it really true that the group put an ad 405 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: out saying we're looking for a candidate. 406 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: Yes, they put ads in papers and they couldn't even 407 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: find anyone worthwhile. And so I had mentioned Schubert Perry 408 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: earlier as one of the guys I interviewed. Well. His father, 409 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: Herman Perry, was the president of the Bank of America 410 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 2: branch there in Woodier, and he had known Nixon all 411 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 2: of his life because he handled the Nixon family's banking. 412 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: And he wrote to Nixon and asked him to run, 413 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: and Nixon said, yeah, I'll come out and I'll try 414 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 2: out for this, and that's how it became Richard Nixon. 415 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: Nixon at that point is just one more much like 416 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: Jerry Ford in the same class. But it always seemed 417 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: to me that the two things that shaped the left's 418 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: hatred of him were the Alger Hiss case and then 419 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: the campaign against Helen Gehegen Douglas. 420 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: Without doubt really the Alger Hiss case, because prior to then, 421 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 2: communism in America was really thought of as like a 422 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 2: far right extremist conspiracy theory, and it was never really 423 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 2: taken seriously. And you even have Truman saying that this 424 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: whole thing's a red herring. And Altra Hiss wasn't just 425 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: some guy. He was at the ALTA conference, he was 426 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 2: in the Truman administration, he was in the Roosevelt administration, 427 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 2: he was at the founding of the United Nations, he 428 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 2: was a very significant member of the State Department. And 429 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: Nixon exposed him as being a communist sympathizer and a liar. 430 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 2: And all of the media had been against Nixon. And 431 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 2: what you have to add to that is, prior to 432 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: this time, really you know, the Northeast is the center 433 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 2: of thought for the United States, and here's this guy 434 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 2: that's become a national politician, that Southwest, independent minded, you know, 435 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: open fences, conservative type of person, pro capitalism, and he 436 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: takes on Hiss and he beats him. 437 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: I mean, even today you can find people who'll argue 438 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: that his wasn't guilty, although we know from the period 439 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: after the fall of the Soviet Union, when the archives 440 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: were opened briefly that in fact his got the highest 441 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,479 Speaker 1: civilian award from the Soviet Union for being such an 442 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: effective agent. You look at this stuff and you think 443 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: it's crazy. So they already disliked Nixon because of his 444 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: But it seems to me that the rough and tumble 445 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: of the campaign for the US Senate with helln Gehagen 446 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: Douglass sort of seals the definition back East. 447 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 2: It does, and it's entirely misplaced. Because the Republicans lost 448 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 2: the Congress and Richard Nixon wanted to accomplish things, and 449 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 2: so he didn't really want to run for Congress in 450 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty and be part of a minority party and 451 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: shared and Downey was the sitting Senator, and so Nixon 452 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: decided he would run against Shardan Downey, That's who he 453 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: thought he was going to run against, and shared Downey 454 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: he was a sitting Democrat incumbent. He took on a 455 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 2: challenge from Helen Gehagen Douglas and that got so nasty 456 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 2: so early Sheridan Downey decided to back out of the race. 457 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: And once he backed out of the race, another guy 458 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 2: named Manchester Body entered the race, and he was a 459 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 2: newspaper publisher. There was a lady named Janet Ghostki that 460 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: was a friend of Sheridan Downey, and she went to 461 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: him and said she wanted to volunteer for someone in 462 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 2: the Senate campaign. Who did he recommend? Sheridan Downey recommended 463 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 2: Richard Nixon, and Janet Ghostki volunteered for him and became 464 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,239 Speaker 2: a longtime supporter of Nixon. But the nastiness of that 465 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: campaign really was between Manchester Body and Helen Gehagen Douglas, 466 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: and those two tore each other apart. It was nasty 467 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: by the time Nixon won the primary and Gahagen Douglas 468 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 2: won the primary. Gahagen Douglas was very unpopular in her 469 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: own party. Ed Paully from the famed UCLA poll Pavilion 470 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: he had been a member of the Room administration. He 471 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: met with Richard Nixon the day after the primary and 472 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: said he couldn't outwardly support Richard Nixon, but he could 473 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: sit on his hands in the race and not providing 474 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: support to Helen Gahagen Douglas, and that everyone would know 475 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: what that meant. And so you had all of these 476 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 2: people lining up in support of Nixon as against at 477 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: ga Haagen Douglas, and really Nixon, the only thing they 478 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: really say about him is, well, he had to have 479 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: said this thing that she's pink all the way down 480 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: to her underwear. You've met Richard Nixon and you had 481 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: a lot of experience with him. He was a very 482 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 2: reserved man, and he was even more so in nineteen fifty. 483 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 2: The likelihood of him commenting on a females under garments 484 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 2: is really it's laughable. He was a guy that when 485 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 2: he was handling divorce work just ten years before, and 486 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 2: back in those days you didn't have no fault divorce. 487 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: You had to prove cause to get a divorce. He 488 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: couldn't even hardle. He listened to the intimate discussions that 489 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 2: his clients would have to share with him to demonstrate 490 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 2: causing their divorces, and so the likelihood of him commenting 491 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 2: on her underwear. 492 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: The whole pink thing, including the pink sheet that was 493 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: put out, I think it's Mark Antonio, the one true 494 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: Communist in the House of Representatives. I think all of 495 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: that was done actually by the Democrat who owned a newspaper. 496 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: Right Manchester Body, all of it, all of that was 497 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 2: Manchester Body. 498 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: But he doesn't exist back east, so it gets transferred 499 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: to Nixon. 500 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: Yes. 501 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: Do you think Nixon had any notion at that point 502 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: that he might in two short years be the vice 503 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: presidential nominee. No. 504 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: I think he was certainly driven. But at that time 505 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 2: you had Governor Earl Warren, you had Goody Knight his 506 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 2: lieutenant governor, you had Bill Nolan who was the senior Senator, 507 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 2: all prominent Republicans and all powerful Republicans in California, and 508 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 2: so he knew he was one of many. But I 509 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 2: don't know that he foresaw Eisenhower number one coming out 510 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 2: as a Republican and number two selecting him when he 511 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 2: was elected in nineteen fifty. But one thing you have 512 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 2: to remember is though in nineteen fifty, when he won 513 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 2: that election against Helen ge Haagen Douglas. He won it 514 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 2: by the largest landside of any Senate candidate in the country, 515 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 2: and so it really did set him up in a 516 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 2: position to be a vice presidential candidate with Eisenhower, especially 517 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 2: because General Eisenhower he could have been a Republican or 518 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 2: a Democrat more than likely, and although a conservative man, 519 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 2: he probably was not inclined to get into the rough 520 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: and tumble of the politics that a person would have 521 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: to do. And so that kind of made Nixon the 522 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 2: perfect fit for him. Because Richard Nixon, with his debate 523 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 2: skills and his drive and his education, everyone he ever 524 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: challenged he beat, and so it made him a perfect candidate. 525 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: He then faces the crisis in the campaign, and Eisenhower's 526 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: pretty tough and says, look, either you answer this in 527 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: a way people believe, or we're. 528 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 2: Going to drop you from the ticket, right, and he 529 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: does it. 530 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, here's a famous Checker's speech about that he's not 531 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: going to return the little dog Checkers, which I think 532 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: further infuriated liberals. 533 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 2: Well because of Roosevelt's dog. You know, it was really 534 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 2: a play on Roosevelt's Yeah, I. 535 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: Was telling my team the other day about Roosevelt on 536 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: a swing in World War Two, had left Fola behind 537 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: on an island, and they sent a heavy cruiser back 538 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: to pick up Folla, and Dewey attacked Roosevelt, and at 539 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: the next press conference, Velt said, look, I'm not personally hurt, 540 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: but I think if Foula sees him, she's going to 541 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: bite him. And that just blew it apart of me. 542 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: Part of why Roosevelt is a genius. This is where 543 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: I start to notice him as a young man. I mean, 544 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: Nixon has a pretty good eight years and then, considering 545 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: how weak the Republican Party had been, really runs a 546 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: remarkable race and almost wins in sixty. 547 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 2: Yes, but one thing I want to tell you real 548 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 2: quick about that clean is a hounds tooth. This is 549 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 2: a demonstrate next in humor. He was on a train 550 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: campaign swing through the Northwest when that story broke, and 551 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: back in those days, you know, they had the traveling 552 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: press with him and everyone that was a part of 553 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 2: that traveling press and that campaign swing. He inaugurated them 554 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 2: into the Order of the Hounds Tooth and issued them 555 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: all identification cards and gave them each a little fake 556 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 2: Hounds tooth for their membership, which demonstrates as humor and 557 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 2: being able to look at those issues which. 558 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: Came about gose Eisner said he had to be clean 559 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: as a hounds tooth to stay on the ticket. 560 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 2: Right. But in nineteen sixty it's fascinating because in nineteen 561 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 2: fifty eight, you know, I mentioned Earl Warren and Bill 562 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: Nolan and Goodie Knight. Well, Earl Warren goes to the 563 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 2: United States Supreme Court, Goodie Night becomes governor, Bill Nolan 564 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: is the President of the Senate, and then the Republicans 565 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 2: lose the majority in the Senate. So Bill Nolan challenges 566 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: Goodie Knight for the governor's seat, and rather than run 567 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 2: for reelection against Nolan, Goodie Knight runs for nolan Senate's seat, 568 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: and they both lose, and Democrats sweep all the seats 569 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty eight, and that leaves Richard Nixon the 570 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 2: only Republican standing in California when just in nineteen fifty 571 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 2: you know, he was the junior member of this powerful class, 572 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 2: and he takes on Senator Kennedy, who was a freshman 573 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: congressman just like him. You know, in nineteen forty six. 574 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: What do you think was Nixon's reaction to losing. 575 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 2: He had to have been devastated. Eisenhower encouraged him to 576 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: challenge the outcome. In Eisenhower's cabinet offered to raise the 577 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 2: money for a legal fight, but he looked at it 578 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: and he said it wasn't in the country's best interest. 579 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 2: Right in early December, when Kennedy flew down to Florida 580 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: to meet with Nixon, Kennedy's first words were, well, no 581 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: one's really sure what the outcome of the election was, 582 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: and that was a very difficult time for Nixon, but 583 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 2: he knew that a prolonged challenge was not in the 584 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 2: United States best interest. More than anything else, Richard Nixon 585 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 2: looked at service over self, all of his service, all 586 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 2: of the things he did in high school, in college, 587 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 2: in law school. 588 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that came out of his mother's Quakerism. 589 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: Yes, it goes back to when he was in eighth 590 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 2: grade that he wanted to be of some good to 591 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: the people, and it wouldn't be of good to the 592 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: people to have a presidential contest locked up for a year, 593 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 2: and instead he decided not to challenge the results. You know, 594 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 2: he even met with Earl Maso because Earle Maso was 595 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 2: a reporter with the New York Herald, and he had 596 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 2: been putting together a twelve part series exposing all the 597 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: election fraud that he had found. And after four of 598 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 2: his articles were published and they were being picked up 599 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: by all of the other major newspapers in the country, 600 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 2: Nixon called him up and said, I want to take 601 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: you out to lunch. And they met and Maso told 602 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 2: him about all of the fraud that he found, and 603 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: he spent about forty five minutes telling Nixon all about it, 604 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: and then he said that Nixon told him, well, that's interesting, 605 00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: but let me tell you about this. And then Nixon 606 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 2: went around the world and named all of the countries 607 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 2: that looked up to America that were fledgling democracies and 608 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 2: wanted and needed to look to America as their beacon 609 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 2: of light for democracy. And he told her a Maaso, 610 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 2: we don't have fraudulent elections in the United States, and 611 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: you have to kill these stories. And Maso thought he 612 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 2: was a fool and refused to kill the stories. So 613 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: Nixon went to his publisher and had his publisher kill 614 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 2: the stories. He then turned around in mid December and 615 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 2: he just opened up his home. I mean because back 616 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: then the vice president even have a vice presidential mansion. 617 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: They just had their own personal house. He opened it 618 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: up to have a huge Christmas party for members of 619 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 2: the Eisenhower administration, friends in media, and to then just 620 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: move on. It was entirely because of this concept of 621 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 2: putting the country first over his own personal individual interests. 622 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: Do you think it was a mistake to go back 623 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: to California and run for governor. 624 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 2: Yes, But the reason why he did it was because 625 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 2: the party was so split in nineteen fifty eight with 626 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,439 Speaker 2: that mess between Goody Knight and Bill Nolan. In sixty two, 627 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 2: the party came to him and says, you're really the 628 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 2: only guy that can heal this because you're the most 629 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 2: prominent Republican in California. And so he takes on the 630 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 2: position of running for the governorship. Because there's about a 631 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 2: million more Democrats in California than Republicans. He needs every 632 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 2: single Republican to vote for him, plus a significant amount 633 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 2: of Democrats. And the John Birchers were opposed to Eisenhower, 634 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 2: and Richard Nixon was opposed to the John Birchers, and 635 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: the John Birchers started endorsing Republicans, and Richard Nixon said 636 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 2: that he would not endorse any Republican ends for the 637 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 2: general election unless they disavowed any relationship with the John 638 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 2: Birch Society. And so he knew in doing that that 639 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 2: he couldn't unify his own party, and there was no 640 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 2: way he was going to get enough Democrats to vote 641 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 2: for him, because they already had a Democrat incumbent. And 642 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 2: so by making that move, he knew he was sealing 643 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: his own fate, but he knew it was the best 644 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 2: thing to do because the John Burchus they needed to 645 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 2: be discouraged and disbanded, not promoted. And he made that decision, 646 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 2: and he undertook that course of action, and it resulted 647 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: in him losing the election. 648 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: He has a press conference that says, you're not going 649 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: to have Richard Nixon a kick around anymore, goes to 650 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: New York. But I think my sense was as early 651 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: as sixty three sixty four he's beginning to see an 652 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 1: avenue to re emerge as a national leader and handles 653 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: the Goldwater nomination brilliantly. The level of the work ethic 654 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 1: and the scale of the national organization. Trump is a 655 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: little bit like this too, that this unending day after 656 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: day you know, in Nixon's case, having I guess the 657 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: equivalent of a rollodex nowadays would all be in a computer. 658 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: But you know, every place he'd go, he'd stop, he'd 659 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: call the key people, make a speech. Go to the 660 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: next place, call all the key people, make a speech. 661 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: And it had to have been seen as probably a 662 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: long shot, which gradually, because Romney was a fool, and 663 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: because Rockefeller couldn't contain himself, gradually began to be more 664 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: and more possible. And then Reagan was a little bit timid. 665 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: Then he wins a very very narrow election, having lost 666 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: a very narrow election, And I always thought that it 667 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: was those two experiences, having lost narrowly in sixty one 668 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: narrowly in sixty eight, that led to sort of an 669 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: over development of the committee to re elect the president. 670 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: The Democrats collapsed in seventy two, with great help from 671 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: George McGovern, they suddenly win this, you know, one of 672 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: the largest victories in American history. Turn around and within 673 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: two years he's out of office. Give us your take 674 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: on what actually happened at Watergate. 675 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 2: I don't think anyone got their hands around what was happening. 676 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 2: It was certainly, you know, a crackpot idea to have I, 677 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 2: Howard Hunt and Gigod and Lyddie go and break in 678 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 2: and see what they're going to find out at the 679 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: Democrat national headquarters. It also seems to be a situation 680 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: of extreme loyalty on the part of Nixon to the 681 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 2: people below him. I don't know that he ever got 682 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 2: his hands around what was actually happening with Watergate. And 683 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 2: it's interesting because it was wrong and there was a 684 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 2: series of mistakes made with it. But if you look 685 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 2: at what he knew and when he knew it, all 686 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 2: the information that was flowing up to him was being 687 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 2: pushed up to him by people that were coloring it 688 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 2: in their own particular best interest, and then you have 689 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 2: John Dean come out and start testifying. The most descriptive 690 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 2: characterization of it that I've heard from Nixon himself was 691 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 2: that he would talk to Bob Hall about it and 692 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 2: he would say, you know, it was a gnat that 693 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: was flying around me. And I would say, Bob, you know, 694 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 2: take care of that nat. And the next thing I know, 695 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: I got swallowed by the gnat. And it's fascinating to 696 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 2: look at because if you look at his administration, like 697 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight. When he's elected, he wins a plurality, 698 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,919 Speaker 2: not a majority. The country's divided, we're at war. Martin 699 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,800 Speaker 2: Luther King's assassinated, Robert Kenny's assassinated, and he brings everyone together. 700 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: And if you look at what he did during his administration, 701 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,240 Speaker 2: he never had a Republican House or a Republican Senate. 702 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: And he does the EPA, the Clean Water Act, the 703 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 2: Clean Air Act, all five Man missions to the Moon 704 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 2: were in his administration. He does Title nine. He fundamentally 705 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 2: changes women in government. He opens China, he signs the 706 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 2: first nuclear arms limitation treaty. He goes to Moscow as 707 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 2: a president, he starts the fight on cancer. He does 708 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 2: all of these amazing things by working across the aisle 709 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 2: and having been the only national candidate on five national 710 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 2: ballots other than Roosevelt, and having had more people vote 711 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 2: for him than any other politician in the United States. 712 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 2: He's really in a position where he's changing politics in America. 713 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 2: And it's like they had to take advantage of this 714 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 2: knucklehead operation that they were doing, and then Nixon and 715 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: his staff are stumbling over it as they're doing it. 716 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 2: But it's in the best interests of the Democrat Party 717 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 2: to attack him on it and the whole thing. It seems, 718 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 2: certainly in hindsight that it was not something to resign over, 719 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 2: But I don't think he appreciated the level at which 720 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 2: he would be demonized for leaving, and he thought it 721 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 2: was in the country's best interests rather than have a 722 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: president hung up for a year in impeachment and do 723 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 2: all these things. He wanted accomplishments. He didn't want just 724 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 2: the title of the office. He wanted to accomplish things. 725 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,959 Speaker 2: It's fascinating. I don't have my hands totally around it either. 726 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 2: There's so much there that I think that there's an 727 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 2: incredible amount to be researched and to looked into more. 728 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: That's what I've gotten sucked into. For example, John dor 729 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: who's the head of investigation for the House, had himself 730 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: as a part of the Kennedy Justice Department, done a 731 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: whole series of things, all of them more illegal than Watergate. 732 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,320 Speaker 1: But he's now the guy in charge of investigating Nixon. 733 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: And among the Democrats there's a vivid awareness that both 734 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: Johnson and Kennedy had broken the law many times more 735 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 1: than Nixon. 736 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 2: Absolutely well, and even Judge Siica, the way he conducted 737 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 2: the trials and the sentences and the ex party meetings 738 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 2: with all of the prosecution and then everyone involved in 739 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 2: it for the most part that were supposedly on the 740 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 2: good side. You know, Syraha gets him to self into 741 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 2: trouble and deep Throat, who he later knew was Mark 742 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 2: Felt is a convicted felon. And by the way, talking 743 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 2: about loyalty when he was convicted, Nixon stood by his 744 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 2: side the entire time in the late nineteen seventies and 745 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 2: supported him and still suspected that he might have been 746 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 2: deep throat. 747 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: Well, of course, he was the number three person at 748 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: the FBI. It's sort of classic listen, absolutely fascinating. Richard 749 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: Nixon California's Native Son. I don't think anybody has ever 750 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,959 Speaker 1: done more research on Richard Nixon than you have. Paul. 751 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. I'm looking 752 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: forward to being with you at the Nixon Library. I 753 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: want to remind our listeners that your new book, Richard Nixon, 754 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 1: California's Native Son, is available on Amazon and bookstores everywhere, 755 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: would make a great holiday gift, so I encourage you 756 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: to pick up a copy. And Paul I want to 757 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: wish you and your family of very merry Christmas and 758 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: happy holidays. 759 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 2: Mister speaker has been a pleasure. Thank you so much, 760 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 2: and I look forward to seeing you in January. 761 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: And I should mention Callis and I will be at 762 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: the Richard Nixon Library Museum on January ninth, twenty twenty four, 763 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: at seven pm. Tickets are available now at Nixonfoundation dot org. 764 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Paul Carter. You can learn 765 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,479 Speaker 1: more about his new book, Richard Nixon, California, his native 766 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: Son on our show page at Newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld 767 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: is produced by Ganglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive 768 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: producer is Guernsey Slum. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 769 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special 770 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gingrich three sixty. If you've 771 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 1: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast 772 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us 773 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 774 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my 775 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at gingleistree sixty dot com. Slash newsletter. 776 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.